Breaking the Cycle: Kate Duffy on Family Recovery and Sobriety!

Revamping Recovery: Kate Duffy on Empowering Families and Early Intervention!

In this episode of the Samantha Parker Show, The host, Samantha Parker sits down with Kate Duffy, an author, interventionist, family addict expert, and CEO of Tipping Point Recovery. They discuss Kate's personal journey to sobriety, beginning with her struggle with alcohol and drugs, and leading to her transformation into a recovery advocate. Kate shares her experiences and insights on the significance of involving families in the recovery process. They explore the challenges of getting sober, the effectiveness of 12-step programs, and the emerging focus on family-centered recovery strategies. Kate also talks about her book 'Dear Family: Why Your Loved One Won't Accept Help and How To Help Them Anyway' and the importance of early intervention and family education in addiction recovery.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

00:57 Kate Duffy's Sober Story

04:40 The Turning Point: Seeking Help

07:24 Recovery Journey and 12-Step Program

09:45 Founding Tipping Point Recovery

14:06 Family Involvement in Recovery

17:29 Early Intervention and Family Strategies

22:13 Challenges of Social Media Messaging

22:33 Gaps in the Treatment System

23:09 The Role of Family in Recovery

23:28 Misconceptions About Treatment

24:05 Personal Recovery Journeys

25:07 The Importance of Family Support

28:25 Introducing the Book: Dear Family

30:21 Living a Sober Life

38:32 Hobbies and Personal Interests

40:25 Conclusion and Where to Find More Information

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Transcript

 Hey guys. Welcome back to the Samantha Parker Show. I'm your host Samantha Parker, today's episode is one you don't wanna miss. I'm sitting down with Kate Duffy. Well, we're virtually sitting on Zoom, but you're an author and interventionist, a family addict expert, and the founder CEO of Tipping Point Recovery.

I think what you're doing is truly groundbreaking and what you're doing with families to help them step out of the shadows and into the recovery conversation is amazing you're equipping them with the tools, language and everything they need to support their family members.

So this is gonna be a really great sober discussion today, you guys. And Kate has her own sober story as well, which I'm excited to learn more about that. I feel like we just had a few minutes where we were chatting, so I don't really know a ton about your sober story, Kate, but I am pretty sure it's a powerful one.

Thank you for being on the show today.

Thanks, Sam. Glad to be with you.

Let's start with your story. How did you come into the work that you're now doing?

Yeah, so my drinking drugging story started in high school and college was pretty powerful. And then for some strange reason things in life, like kids and a nonprofit that I started kept me away from drinking alcoholically for 15 or 20 years, so I never identified as an alcoholic,

when I look back, I was all along outside of myself. Things were starting to interest me and keep me happy, and I was thriving as a young mom. And then in my mid forties. With some trauma loss, betrayal, hurt. I realized, I had no coping skills. I had no ability to regulate my emotions, and I just started to drink more I was doing what everybody else was doing around me, young moms, and it took me really hard and fast I got sober finally at 50 after, you know, multiple attempts or too. But it was, fast progression in those last few years became somebody unrecognizable and wasn't anything I wouldn't try. There was a lot of drugs I didn't try because they weren't in front of me. But last year, nothing would've been off the table for me. I just really wanted to not live.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Do you feel like. You were going through some hard things, but your coping was like, let's get drunk.

Yeah. If you were me, you would do this too, it was like, oh my God, poor Kate. Did you hear what happened? Marriage Betrayal lost my cousin slash brother , to an overdose, to suicide all kinds of things were happening and it was. Because I was wrecking things, felt I deserved to drink. I didn't know that was happening in my body, I guess my mind and my spirit it's hard to even describe 'cause there was absolutely nothing left in me in the end.

But in that sort of mid forties, I was just drinking like, I had a rough day or a rough time then I started sneaking. I was drinking earlier in the day. That last couple of years I was drinking in the morning. I drank and drove. My life was slipping away really fast and I did a really good job hiding it, which is a ton of work.

Yeah. Exhausting to be an alcoholic, but do you feel like in society today though, you were like, I deserve to have that drink. Don't you feel like it's almost glorified to us? It's like, just have a drink, but then it's like, oh wait, just kidding.

You're bad because you had a drink. It's like mixed messages. 

It is. Well, I got sober the last time 12 years ago. This feels like a really different world to me now than it was then.

Mm-hmm.

anything on social media. There wasn't. So I hadn't at least seen anything sober, curious, to me, I drank more than anybody I knew, but I had a right to. I snuck it. I'd pre-game anywhere I'd go, my go-to was if I had a gin and tonic or two, I'd be all set for whatever else came my way. But that would just tip me over because I drank bottles and bottles of wine.

Oh yeah.

I'd go to different stores

I know people will say oh, have a glass or two, and I was like, what about a bottle or two?

Yeah.

It's more fun, doesn't it?

I drove myself to the er. That last day with a 0.30 blood alcohol level, and all kinds of alcohol in my car. had no ability to not drive. I tried hiding my keys. I tried making notes for myself, and if I put anything in my system, all bets were off. I think I was blacking out convincing people, I was fine and they'd believe me, then the next day, I mean this went on for a year, I'd wake up and think how did I not kill someone? How did I not kill myself? That haunted me, that had an impact on my desire eventually to It was super scary.

So when you say surrender, is that like you went to the ER and you're like, Hey, I've gotta get sober. Is that what you did?

yeah. But that day I didn't ever think I would be sober for the rest of my life. Like you can't see label from inside the jar when you're in that situation. You can't see what's really going on for you. But fell into the ER practically. They had police at my door 'cause I'm sure I was slightly rambunctious I said, I need help. I didn't know what that looked like. I didn't know what it meant. I wasn't agreeing to stop drinking for the rest of my life, but I brought myself there

That's kind of cool. It's kind of a wild story,

No, I get

but it's like

people don't do that.

I was gonna say, somewhere inside of you, there must have been a part of you that was like, I'm gonna take over and we're going to the er. I bet it was kind of out of body.

I laugh when you say that was cool is 'cause I actually packed a bag in the morning to go and I didn't get there till after 6:00 PM the reason I went that day is a year before, on that day, I had tried to get sober I never tracked any dates. 'cause I was just getting a couple of days at a time.

I was like, I can't do this. I can't manage all these dates, new sobriety dates. So when April 13th was coming up again, it was like. You're gonna die if you don't do it now. So I went, but I packed a bag in the morning to go. It was kind of sick actually, when you think about it. I went and bought wine, a four pack of wine.

I went to a bar for lunch. I probably napped in the day. I just drank all day long and ended up there. God, I don't know how.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

yeah, like something stepped in and it's like, here you are now.

Exactly.

Did you come to in the er.

Probably, I think I was up there, there was a treatment, detox in the hospital. It's actually a closed, a locked unit. And I went because I knew I couldn't leave and I knew they had no booze there. I remember thinking, well, I can't drink there. So it was literally a few days at a time that I was thinking. I'm sure I somewhat sobered up in the er. I don't really recall, but I went up to the detox five days there. This was at when the bombing, I was in the Massachusetts at the time. It was the marathon bombing.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. I remember when I saw that on TV after a couple of days in the ER or in detox.

I remember thinking you had this awareness, like there's this whole world out there, which there isn't. I felt like I was in the trunk of a car for those last couple of years. So yeah, I said to the case manager, I need to go away. Further than last time, and for longer, I needed to get as far away as possible from people, places and things. And yeah,

like, yeah, obviously you got sober. Did you work a program or did you do rehab? What'd you do?

I went to a 12 step retreat program. I think it's really challenging to do the steps and live day-to-day life, right? You work for an hour or two on the steps and then you go back to what for me was insanity. So being in a place for 30 days and going through the steps, rigorous, one line at a time in the book throughout that month was how I had to do it. And then I went to a sober house from there,

Yeah. So you put in the work. I love the 12 step program, but I always tell people like, get sober however you wanna get sober. But I, I'm a big fan of 12 Steps before we started this podcast, you were telling me that you went to Deepak Chopra and I was like, I would. Into Deepak Chopper too, and I got bored.

So I went and got drunk at the hotel bar.

Drank

I was by myself.

Yeah.

was great.

I went to the one on emotional freedom. I had been searching for years, Sam, on what was the matter with me was I found on a doorstep at two weeks old. My whole life I searched for happened. am I like this? Why am I so miserable?

Why am I so uncomfortable on the inside? One of the reason I went there, it was like this emotional freedom week. doesn't work though when you get drunk every night and meditate with Deepak during the day.

I was doing that and I was like, this is so boring. So I went to the hotel bar, but of course there other people like me at the hotel bar so I could justify, you know, that was my favorite thing to do.

We were seeking, and I

Mm-hmm.

what we are doing with, I mean, think about our spirit. I had a relationship with a higher power. I was meditating. As it got worse, I was trying to manifest and I had a pull. To spirituality, I didn't realize what was blocking. This was the last block. So when someone told me I was an alcoholic, I was like, oh my God, maybe that's it. Maybe that's what's the thing that I thought was wrong. And then I remember thinking, that's it. And it feels now like an honor. Like, a club.

It is really,

now when I go to events I tend to find the sober people versus I would always find the people who are drinking it's interesting how it just happens.

You don't see them as much anymore. You see the people doing what you're doing.

So what you do at Tipping Point Recovery is about bringing the family into the addiction and recovery. What kind of drove your path? Why did you go that way specifically?

Yeah, so I had always been self-employed. I actually started a nonprofit nursery school in my twenties, I had a summer camp with kids, before the, drinking got really bad. And so when I got sober I was like, what do I do? What am I gonna do? I don't know what to do. And I took the advice of get a get well job, and I went slow.

I knew I was really on the line of like life and death. And because it was so bad that my bottom, remember thinking, I need to help people. When they told me there was a solution and I started to get better, I thought, how come I didn't know this? How come my kids didn't know this? Because they. Weren't a big fan of mine at this point. Right. I did a lot of damage, I started working in the field right away. I got a job as a case manager. I got a job in a rehab in my second and third year of recovery, I worked as a er, intervention, recovery coach. I worked with the police department. They called me anytime there was a non-fatal overdose, in 2015, they were every day. In this community in Massachusetts, there was an overdose and I would go to the ER and meet the people and try to sell a better life. when I walked in that ER over the first few months, I saw these gaping holes understanding.

The doctors didn't understand, the patient didn't even understand, nobody was really supporting them. They just begged to get discharged, right? Because when you overdose, you might be scared and you might wanna live, but you really wanna be high. And nobody seemed to understand that.

They were like, oh no, he doesn't want help. He's gonna leave. He doesn't wanna talk to you. And I was like, not true actually, they asked me to come to Doctor's rounds, the physicians in the er. And I remember thinking, me, what do you want me? I'm like, your doctors. They wanted my story. I just was stunned and I started engaging lots of people in the er. And what I said to them was, I don't know about you, but I lie to my family. I knew that was trapping them. And did a couple hundred interventions in those two years.

And people would say to me, yeah, I do. Can you talk to my wife? Can you talk to my mom or my husband? And I said, sure. So here's how it first started. I said, sure, I'll talk to your family, but I'm gonna tell them the truth. They were like, what do you mean? Well, I'm gonna tell them that we lie because they think you're just a jerk. They think you're just bad. But the truth is our. Illness is making us lie. And they're like, yeah, you got, you can tell them. I started to engage with all these families and I ran a support group. I didn't wanna hear, I was broken hearted listening to how mad they were at their loved one.

Rightly so. But I remember thinking from the lens of the loved one, like, they're pissed. Not be able to talk about the problem because one's high and one's mad, they'd be crying the whole meeting. And so I remember thinking, and I'd say to the families, I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but I think your feelings are getting in the way of you helping them.

I just was really direct they'd say, yeah, he's so manipulative though. I'm like, no, but I'm manipulative. We're all manipulative.

Mm-hmm.

people think their loved one is just this way. And I'm like, no, we're all this way as it progresses and gets worse. Ultimately people were getting sober just by their families getting educated and being with sober people.

And so after two years, felt a calling. Of the moms handed me her notebook. She said, I wrote down everything you said in the last two years. So moved away. I said to my higher power. I don't know what this is, but I need to do something with what I'm learning. We ultimately created an entire curriculum, an entire framework on helping families get outta the chaos.

And it's a form of intervention helping people treat their own feelings about what's going on, and helping them strategize for how to connect with their loved one. So it built itself.

I've been talking about sobriety for like over a year on this podcast, and this is the first time I've had someone be like, what about the family?

Right,

Yeah, so I find this very enlightening and I really, appreciate it

sure.

When someone is suffering with addiction, a lot of times their family is like, just get your shit together. And there's a lot of anger. A lot of times they'll lose their spouse. But on the opposite side too, like, there's people that get sober and their families like, what are you doing?

Why did you do that? So can you take me through this process? What does it look like

sure,

kill with your family?

Sure. So basically families find us first the families that find us have been through everything, Multiple treatments, lots of money spent. when they hear me speak and say, there is a way you can help them, there's probably something you're doing or not doing that might be getting in the way. It's not black and white, if I talk to a hundred people, it would be very different for each person. I ask people to first look at. What do you think you might be doing that's not helpful? And people are pretty quick to say, I enable, buy things, drive them places, give them things 'cause I don't know what else to do. Some people say, I'm losing it on them. Yelling at them, or I cut them off I want people to stay away from. Doing right or wrong. There is no right or wrong. just trying to do your best, right? So there's no, there's no, my framework is right and something else is wrong.

It's really about understanding what your loved one needs, why they're doing what they're doing. It's not to get drunk, usually it's to solve a problem on the inside, and we have to understand what that is. The specifics for family are helping people identify the things they're doing. That are getting in the way and then making a plan to slowly chip away at it. It's a parallel path. We run online intensive outpatient, for lack of a better word. It's just like an IOP. It's a treatment for family because families are beat up, lied to, they're manipulated, they're hurt over and over again. Most people say cut them off, out, or Oh my God, they can't help it. need to love them. But neither of those work, right? Those are both ends of the spectrum. One is kicking them out, and one is caring so much that you might actually be complicit.

Kind of bypassing.

yeah, I teach people to be in the middle, teach people how to make recovery oriented decisions.

Don't make a reactionary. Feelings based decision, make a recovery oriented one. Support recovery, don't support addiction. And that's very gray, right? Because we're all doing it differently. So we run group programs. People get really strong. We have three levels of engagement and wild what happens. People sometimes just by coming in the program and working it, their loved ones are like start to change. Because when you change,

Do you find, A lot of times you're like, oh, I see why they drink.

Well, the families that come in say, I actually use similar language. I say to the family, what do you want to detox from? And they're like, worry I'm like, okay, great. just don't worry. They're like, I can't do that. I'm like, yeah. It's kind of like quitting a drinking. It's very similar.

Oh, that's a,

Right.

a very good analogy. I like that one. Okay. So you talk a lot about intervening early. What does that look like for families?

Unfortunately we don't meet people early, but we've been mostly meeting people really late. I'd like to intervene early by having families of younger children understand mental health and addiction more so that here's what it would look like. I'm talking real early before there's a problem.

You have a stressful day at work. You come home, you wanna pour a drink or you wanna. Bitch with your friend on the phone and that your kids are watching so a really early intervention would be, Hey, I had a really stressful week. Do you wanna come out back with me and stretch teaching your kids healthy coping strategies really early.

Right. Intervening early would also be if somebody is newly, you're identifying somebody struggling with substance use disorder. If I ran a treatment center, I would say, come on in. And family. You go here and person go there like everybody needs treatment. So that's what I believe because I see the outcomes are drastically improved when families are learning about our illness.

Look at every other disease families would be Googling clinical trials and research. And are they not with us? Because Don't want them to, or we don't include them.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of shame and guilt that goes around it,

for both family and

yeah. Even just from my own experiences, with my own kids, sometimes I'm like, I need therapy for what they're going through.

Yes. Exactly. you know, I say to families who wants to go to a 30 day rehab as a family member, our kids put us through a lot. Regardless of the relationship, spouses, partners, particularly coming into our program are just so from living with that. And your life is likely telling you, leave him, leave her.

Mm-hmm.

solution. It's not always what you want. Getting better enough to be able to know if you wanna leave. Sounds healthier, right?

Yeah, I like that. Okay, so what can families do when their loved ones won't accept help? Because I know you do a lot of intervention stuff,

Yeah.

Happens,

so I think that's the number one barrier to people getting well is the fact that we think they don't want it. If we were talking to, thousands of people and ask them to raise their hand, how many people's loved ones don't want help or are resisting, the majority would raise their hand.

As I've studied addiction, I understand that it pushes everybody away. Every single person I ever met in that ER did not wanna live the way they were living. Have you ever known anyone that's like, yeah, I love this. I mean, it's early stage of addiction. Maybe you're still having fun, but there's a point with the progression I don't know anybody that's having a party. It's just trying to stay alive and source the next resource. Depending on the addiction it's super progressive and that's what I see every day. The first thing I say to people is, I don't care what they want. I care what they need. I don't care what they're telling you, I care what we know, right? So families say, well, he doesn't wanna get help. It's like, well, what do you want? We end up thinking that that's the rule. They don't wanna get help, so we can't do anything takes, it has all this power, I wish I could just say, this is what we do, so just do that. It's not that simple. We have a framework. We actually have a literal framework, but you have to go through it many times. In the book there is a, there is a pathway for people that are super ready and willing. You could take this book and work a program. We created this entry level group program so people can advice from interventionists about what changes to make.

It's real serious stuff. It's not, widgets, it's people and it's mental health. It's complex, Behavioral health challenges are really complex.

I feel bad that you had to go through it, but it's great that you're able to help people and kind of meet them where they're at, because of your own experiences too.

It's really changed my family's life too. My kids, they're in their thirties now, but we've all repaired as a result of the work I've done. We all feel super proud of what Tipping Points built. It definitely came from pain, but to me it's such a no-brainer.

You mentioned you had never heard it. It's not mainstream to recover the family.

Yeah. And a lot of times, they've gone through a lot of painful stuff too, but they are contributing, every circumstance is different.

Exactly.

And you need

creating the message on social media was challenging, you know, five or six years ago, how do I say this, without offending people.

Mm-hmm.

I don't have the power to offend people. If the message is gonna offend people, it's not right for them.

Yeah.

Sometimes I think we need to be triggered in order to

Think about things differently. We need to stroke our minds out a little.

right.

What are the biggest gaps that you're seeing in the treatment system today?

People going to treatment and leaving early. One of the gaps is they get to leave treatment early because they get uncomfortable after a couple of weeks. They've promised their family they'll stay, but when they call their family to pick them up, pretty convincing.

If they're strong arm, the family and the families go get them early. So one of the biggest missing pieces is educating the family on why that's not a good idea I want to teach people to have the confidence to say, I don't feel qualified.

We need more help, and then we can

Yeah.

coming home. There's a whole other way to do that. Families need to be in the process treatment centers say they do, and they have a support group. It's not the same. This is very strategy based. Families need a lot of work. almost as much work as the individuals and treatment centers don't have the bandwidth for that. Another big gap is this misunderstanding. People think when they go to treatment, they should be better. But treatment is only a stabilization. It's not even beginning to recover. It's not lifelong recovery at all. I hear a lot, well, he went three times or eight times or 12 times. We count the times, there's sort of this, it's wrong, it's bad. They failed and that isn't it at all. truth is each experience kind of stacks up on each other and we need all of them whether it's therapy or outpatient or. Counseling, or it's inpatient rehab or sober living, it takes layers to get to the deep issues

yeah, and what I've heard from a lot of, my friends who have gone to treatment, I did not go to treatment because when I was talking to different treatment centers, it was like, this is not gonna meet me where I'm at.

Hmm.

What I found from a lot of my friends that I've connected with through the program is they went to treatment centers.

But for me, I was a high functioning alcoholic and they got put in a room with someone who is detoxing from meth, and so I think sometimes there's a weird misconception, like maybe we don't all belong in the same space.

No, I'm about multiple pathways as well. I talk about treatment a lot because in my world, we're helping people access various levels of treatment because they're pretty acute cases, though not all.

Yeah.

beautiful for people. I had a friend say to me once, I just stopped drinking, I was like, what was happening? Well, I was drinking a bottle of wine night and in my head I'm thinking, oh my God, I was drinking three at the end. Not that I'm proud of that, but for you.

Right? If that was too much for you and you stopped, think about the life you're living now versus that numbing out life. It's beautiful.

What's one thing you would say to someone listening right now who feels like they've tried everything?

If your fam, the person struggling

Mm-hmm.

the family

Yes.

One thing that you probably haven't tried is your family getting well. If a lot of your listeners are people getting sober themselves, very likely they're saying, well, this would be great if my family would go, but they probably won't go to my program.

Right? so. First of all, I wanna tell people my book actually can help a recovering person their family a little better. I think of that as like the reverse bridge. I built the framework for the family to get their loved one. But it absolutely works for the loved one to get their family.

'cause what I wanna explain to with addiction is your family's really unwell. You're not gonna be able to convince them of that, so don't even try. have a real commitment to helping people engage their families so people can certainly reach out to me,

i've been getting more and more inquiries from people saying, I read your book or heard about your book, but I'm the one sober and my family still won't talk to me. I have deeply committed. To helping you go get your family to open their eyes. There are lots of ways you can share the information, and it's not usually direct.

It's not usually through the front door because people aren't listening, right? Nobody likes to be confronted, but we can go through a side window or the back door and give some insight into helping people. Engage their family. Usually people's families are not at the table because one, they haven't been invited. Two, they have denial. They have a lot of blind spots just like we do when we're struggling with addiction and they're afraid. Terrified actually. So families, when they enroll in my program, they say I'm really excited and absolutely terrified because they're excited to learn.

They feel hope for the first time in a long time. Remember, their family's enrolling, but they're scared because they know they gotta look at themselves.

Yeah, that was gonna be my next question is like, what about people who have family members. Like you can visibly see them in their own active addiction.

Tell me more what you mean.

So let's say someone gets sober but they can see their family is like they have family members.

 The way I describe that is we refer to the addicted person as the identified person. IP is the term interventionists use. I tell families you might have multiple people in your family that are now the identified person, pick one and focus on your relationship with that person. To build a connection, to offer them help in a new way and healthy help. But yeah, it's basically the bottom line is can't make other people do things right. We can only work on ourselves. It's awareness to that relationship.

Did you lose me?

I have a dog barking.

Oh, I can't hear it

all right, cool.

I can't work from home. 'cause I'm like,

Yeah.

how many dogs do you have? 

Just one. Two cats and a dog.

I have one dog who has mental issues and another dog who is nice and calm and normal.

They're fun.

Yeah. I call it like little dog syndrome. It's like, yep. Yap. Yap. They have lots of proof. Okay, so you brought up your book, Kate, what is your book like? Let's talk about the book.

The book is called Dear Family, why Your Loved One Won't Accept Help and How To Help Them Anyway, we took the last, 10 years of work we've been doing with families and put it together in an organized way, in a framework that is really simple, but it's complex to change it's ultimately three things we want people to do. Continue to work on understanding your loved one 'cause it's not what you think that's going on. There's more underneath it. There are ways to respond to it that are different, and more helpful. The second component is you gotta understand yourself. You gotta find your feelings about what's going on and see how they're yours. You gotta own what's yours and not pointing because they're pointing at a drug and you're pointing at them. Everybody's staying in this vicious cycle. So the first thing we do is those two components, is we separate you from your individual. the third component is to do something different at every turn. Every time you have an interaction or a frustration, you have to stop and pause and take completely different action. So we're really teaching people an entirely new way to relate. It's a blend of like all the work I've ever done. It's a blend of all the conversations I've ever had. People say to me all the time, this is not just a program to help my loved one or me, this is, this works at work. So it's really personal development. codependent recovery that we're doing. It's the Serenity Prayer actually broken down and taught how hard is it to have the wisdom to know the difference between what you can and can't control? what we're working on here.

I love that. Okay, so you're 12, you're sober, is that what you told me? Right.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

What comes up for you now? How do you deal with sober life today?

I have several sobriety dates. One's with alcohol and drugs. The next one was cigarettes. Five years later. one that became really problematic for me was sugar. I got sober from sugar in 2019. I haven't had any sugar or flour since then because I became super addicted. So that's a thing, right?

Food. I can turn to anything to numb out and I pay attention to that. I live pretty authentically, pretty clean, pretty healthy. The next thing that comes up is codependency. I think I've learned that most alcoholics also are codependent. Where we sort of don't know where we end and others begin. with our kids or with our partnerships. So for me, recovery now is about being so authentic, owning what's mine in every interaction maybe I have a challenging conversation with someone, I stop, I reflect, try to take what's mine and leave the rest. It's about letting go of what's not mine.

So to me, this stage of my recovery feels like freedom, real freedom from the entanglement of. My thoughts, what I used to think I had to do. 'cause I wanted you to like me human beings are complex. So I feel like you're actually making me realize this. 'cause I'm saying it out loud.

I feel like I'm at this stage of my recovery that I used to wish for when I went to the Chopra Center, seeking such confidence and comfort in your own skin. That's what I was looking for back then, and I feel that now a lot of the time.

I was always looking for maybe they have something I don't.

Yeah.

You know,

Yeah,

I'm actually doing pretty good.

Right.

 I feel like a brand new little baby though in the sober world. What do you say to people who are more newly sober?

I would say, first of all, good for you. You're young, incredibly impressive to be doing this young. I also say lean into. Rediscovering your full, authentic self, because that's what I think recovery's about. To me, it's self-love and authenticity. Feeling safe in your own body, feeling safe in your own skin.

That's what recovery feels like. So for me it would be protect your peace at all costs. Take time for yourself when you need it.

Hmm.

lessons that I'd want someone to have, but somebody newly sober. I also say if someone in your life doesn't understand you, keep some distance, it's not your job to convince them.

Protect

Yeah,

people have strong opinions.

they do. Especially when they're drinking.

Right,

that's what I'm running.

Yeah. And so, I gotta be honest, my world is a lot smaller than it used to be

Mm-hmm.

And people, you get to decide at every turn, is this relationship nourishing me? Some I statements is what I tell families first. To anybody that's around people that are drinking and you're bugged by it. finding that I'm not okay in this dynamic. We so often wanna say, when you do this and you do that, then I feel this way. It's better to say, I'm recognizing that I'm feeling unsettled in this conversation, or am having a hard time being in this relationship right now and not feeling my whole well self. It's harder for people to argue with, and even if they do, you still have to. Honor yourself, what you feel is really a good go-to. There's a lot of feelings associated with it, if it was so simple to just walk away, we'd walk away,

 Sometimes you can't be like, here's two double birds. Kiss my ass. It doesn't work out well.

Also the request. If there's somebody in your life and it's not a relationship you wanna end, you could make a request.

I love, that's actually really good advice and for a lot of people listening too and myself, remembering that we're important and I really believe in doing some sort of program. You know, get sober. However you guys wanna get sober 'cause there's different things you can do.

A lot of people talk about the Naked Mind. Have you heard about that? Yeah. I have a lot of people like that worked for them. For me, working the steps get you to that point where you're like, this is a me thing. I take responsibility for me, you know, and I'm gonna do this and it's really powerful.

absolutely. Keep seeking,

Yeah. I love that. What do you feel like has been, if there's just one thing that could pop into your mind, like what's been your favorite thing about this whole journey? Even though it's kind of, messy, it's a shit show, but it turns into like this really beautiful gift. What do you feel like is your favorite thing?

Watching the clients in our program, some of them, the minimum time to come in is two months, but many stay for a year or two in the long-term program. It's kinda like sober living for our program. And what changes for them? Honestly, if that wasn't happening, if the outcomes weren't what I'm seeing, people's loved ones getting sober at a higher rate. I wouldn't keep doing this. It's really hard. And every day people blow me away at how hard they work at owning their own stuff. I call them warriors because so few people in the world are doing that. Watching the results of our clients and hearing, you know, when, the alcoholic in the family at first doesn't like our program. They're hearing about it and they're like, yeah, they don't know what they're talking about. Right? Because they wanna drink or use. So people are, they call us a cult, don't go to that program. She doesn't know what she's talking about. But then when they get sober, they're like, thank you for holding my family.

Thank you for helping my family. I never would've gotten well if my dad didn't stop enabling me.

Yeah.

huge, thanking me for teaching their family how to understand them. That's probably top.

I think it's interesting when people refer to recovery as like a cult. You know, I've had people like wanna die in my dms. This was the hill they were gonna die on as the AA was a cult. And I was like, I don't know why. All I said was I go to aa. I didn't say you had to go to aa.

I

You know, I'm like, nobody's getting sacrificed

I think

Doing pretty good.

I hear it too. And it saved my life though. I have multiple layers to my recovery, so there's a lot more to me than aa. But think it probably, if you think about what, what's the function to all behavior? All behavior has meaning, right? Why would people be saying that first? I do think there's some reality that people do feel, welcome. I think that's happened. And I also think that an abstinence based program, if you don't want to be abstinent, you're not gonna like that. Right.

Yeah, you're gonna find reasons not.

Exactly. Sometimes things have to have that big backlash in order for. Something to be revealed.

I get curious about that, but yeah, I see it and hear it a lot. I think people must be feeling empowered when they're doing it, if they're bashing it, and then maybe they're seeking this empowerment and that's how they're getting it. I don't know, but I hear it a lot,

It's just always interesting for me. That's what I'm talking about. I've made a couple of videos where I'm like, Hey, this is my experience of it, you know? Just so people can understand. And I'm like, nobody's making you. I think what happens is there's a lot of religious trauma that people have experienced, and then they come in there and they hear the word God, and they're instantly back to religious trauma.

so you're doing what I was just talking about, right? We wanna look at what's the underlying cause that would make someone have such strong feelings about it. And you can do you and I'll do me, right? Yeah.

And that's actually kind of my favorite thing about sobriety is I'm like, well, I'm just doing this thing. I'm talking to as many people as I can. I'm sharing my own experiences, but you can totally do you,

I bet it's a powerful experience. You have so many episodes, you're learning a ton, huh?

I learned so much from people and it's not always about hearing their story. I like to hear what path they took to sobriety so that more people can be like, oh, I can do this.

Love that.

Yeah. It's been a lot of fun. Sometimes we talk about other things too.

Mm-hmm.

Who are you outside of sobriety?

How do you define yourself outside of this?

I gotta be honest, this has been my focus for six years straight, I swim. I'm a long distance swimmer in the ocean and I have been starting to kayak, a little bit more. I skied until a couple years ago, so I have a knee issue I gotta deal with just loving on my pets and birds and being outside as much as possible. My kids, you know, I have a grandson turning 16, so he's a big part of my life.

I love that. Okay, so I have questions about this long distance swimming in the ocean. 'cause it's cold, right?

It's warm.

Do you get in the ocean when it's cold?

get in the ocean. For years I wanted to do the January 1st plunge in the

Uhhuh?

and I was

Yeah.

Finally did that. Now my favorite time to go in is like October when it's really cold because I want the shock, like I like a cold plunge now.

 As I've been building up endurance to do more long distance. I really want to, do like a mile or two. Right now, I just swim back and forth at the beach, near my house. I just like being in the ocean, swimming. It's super unpredictable, the winds and the tides, and am absolutely my happiest, happiest one.

I'm swimming. Nothing

I love that.

What's that for you?

I took up running and running really kind of saved me. I'm not a great runner, you know,

I love it.

great.

Yeah, I love that. And really being healthy I think my favorite thing is the little things, like when I wake up in the morning and I don't have that headache.

I don't do that anymore. I can just get up and do whatever I want that day. I don't cancel plans. I feel like I'm a really dependable person and I love that.

We didn't like who we were. We didn't like who we were becoming recovery's about liking yourself again and falling in love with yourself, to me, that's the core. That's the point of life.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

It's beautiful.

Yeah.

Alright, Kate, thank you so much for your time and just your energy today. I know you're doing big things in the world. Where can people find you online?

So we have a few places. I am on TikTok. I'm gonna admit that we're not consistent with our naming yet, but I am Kate Duffy, family Recovery with Kate on TikTok, We have a great Facebook group, super active. It's called Friends of Tipping Point

 That's amazing.

The website is tipping point recovery.com.

I love that. We'll make sure we have this linked up in the show notes and then your book. Tell me your book one more time. ' is it on Amazon?

it's on Amazon. It's anywhere you buy books. It's called Dear Family by Kate Duffy. The tagline is, why your loved one won't accept help and how to help them.

Yeah, I think that could be a great resource. I wanna pick it up because I think it'll gimme some knowledge as well.

Better

yes.

Send you one.

I was gonna say, you have to sign it though, because I have this really cool collection of like books that are just from my friends and people I know that have wrote books and they're all signed and it's like my favorite thing of mine.

I will do

Please 

I love sending them out.

I love that. Please do. I will cherish it and share it online.

Nice. I appreciate that.

Thank you for being on the show today, and thank you for the work you're doing in the world.

likewise Sam. Thanks so much for having me. You're amazing as well.