Courage to Design your Career with Sara Kolata

 #005

In this episode, we're joined by Sara Kolata. Sara is an architect by trade, and she's based in Costa Brava, in Spain, and works with architects across the globe to raise their value and present their expertise in ways that benefit, not only themselves, but also the planet.


We discuss:

*Taking a leap of faith

*Alignment of your career and your values

*Ownership of your story

*The power of making choices

*Self-care



You can connect with Sara here:

Website: Sara Kolata

Youtube: Sara Kolata - YouTube

LinkedIn: (2) Sara Kolata | LinkedIn


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Transcript

https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/HUKSDdgiXMJzwFMm5_7uV25JeScsDLYP3jVfuGm6HKSSuO5TZ-rq3d3MeBGaEez4CwfGoNfeOSSw3jDUnGD3jDY4YhQ?loadFrom=SharedLink

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to The Everyday Determinator Podcast with your host Anne Okafor, founder of The Determinator Collective. We want to help you get off that hamster wheel of life and turn you into an Everyday Determinator by sharing stories from our guests, who have overcome varying challenges in life and careers, and by reviewing and signposting you to helpful resources to start you on the journey to achieving your goals. For more information on The Determinator Collective, please visit www.anneokafor.com.uk. Thanks for listening, determinators. (singing.)

Anne Okafor (00:50):

Hello, determinators, and welcome to The Everyday Determinator Podcast. In this episode, we're joined by Sara Kolata. Sara is an architect by trade, and she's based in Costa Brava, in Spain, and works with architects across the globe to raise their value and present their expertise in ways that benefit, not only themselves, but also the planet. Hi, Sara. It's great to have you with us.

Sara Kolata (01:12):

Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Anne Okafor (01:15):

You're welcome. I'm really excited to hear about your story. You've so pretty much designed your career around aligning your profession of architecture with your own values, even when there was times when that was a challenging thing to do. I think, sometimes, there was a bit of conflict about whether the two of those things could work in harmony, but you have carved out a route that works for you. And you're living in what you want to be doing, and now you're helping others to do the same, so that's obviously a wonderful thing. What influenced you towards a career in architecture to begin with?

Sara Kolata (01:52):

Such a good question. And I really appreciate that you cover a lot of topics in this podcast that are a little bit more of a taboo, maybe people don't usually share. But I'm super happy because I feel like all these different things that happened in life made me who I am. And it quite soon contributed to having to actually make brave decisions, maybe risky decisions, maybe controversial decisions, but every single step that I took was more and more to basically become who I am. And I think maybe finding also my true self.

                Architecture came to be when I moved to England. I was very young, like 18, and I did sort of medical high school. So we were prepared to go into medicine, but towards the last years of my high school, actually, realized that I don't really... Well, I love learning and studying and stuff like this, but I wanted to do something a little bit more creative. And I think, moving to England without speaking very good English was already quite a challenge at the time.

                And I just followed my gut into a foundation year of arts, and I did that in Manchester, so that was sort of the beginnings. And that obviously opened me up toward arts and architecture, and I chose architecture because it called me. And so a lot of that was unplanned, in a way, but I think the first decision sort of to not go down the medical path, but actually go somewhere more creative was hard to take, but definitely, I'm so grateful for that now, looking back.

Anne Okafor (03:27):

Especially now after the pandemic and things, so very glad. I'm certainly glad I'm not doing what I used to do in hospitality, in retail and things like that. So sometimes we do get these lessons, don't we? That we're grateful for.

                So I know, when you started out in your architecture career, you mentioned that you started out in London, sort of influenced really by that glitz and glamour of these celebrity architects and things like that. So what was that like? Obviously, you were very young, I think, at the time. That must have been really exciting. London, sort of global city, all the sort of glitz and glam. But is it what you expected it to be?

Sara Kolata (04:02):

Yeah, and more even than I expected. But to be totally honest, I think I really wanted that kind of glamorous experience. And the first challenge was to learn the language. I remember the first weeks at my foundation year of arts in Manchester, I was very uncomfortable with my ability to communicate. I had a very strong Polish accent, and, obviously, Manchester people also speak more Northern Mancunian, so that already was quite a clash, but I was learning and adapting very fast.

                And about a year and a half in, I decided, you know what, I really actually really want to be in the arts center, the heart of arts and architecture, if it comes to England. And I just thought another challenging decision to take, but I really want to get into Central Saint Martins. And after my first year of interior design, I applied to Central Saint Martins.

                And in order to be perhaps better or get a head start, I learned SketchUp from YouTube, and I made my last projects in interior design more of an architecture piece, so that was basically what culminated my first year of studying interior design at the time. But it turned out to be an incredible way to get into Saint Martins. And so, I went for the interview at Saint Martins, and they just looked at my portfolio, and they said, "You've got some computer skills we haven't taught our students yet. So we would like to offer you a place at year two." And so I didn't miss anything. I just went to year two of architecture. It's amazing. I was ready to repeat year one, but it didn't happen, so that was really incredible.

                And I think I just took a massive leap of faith. But also I remember I applied outside of the traditional sort of schedule of application. and I found an email to the dean, and I wrote him a personal email to say how I felt and how much I wanted to get into Saint Martins. And he offered me an interview, outside of the regular interview time. And I think, at the time, I think, I already believed that it's not all about your portfolio and about your application and deadlines, but it's about your personality. And if you really show it, and you connect with someone, that can really do wonders. And I think until today, I'm very much driven in that way. I don't quite follow the traditional way of how people get jobs or how people get to places or start companies or start being who they are. I'm just kind of giving it all a try. Do you know what I mean?

Anne Okafor (06:39):

I think that sort of being brave enough to take a risk, as well, because a lot of us can maybe find ourselves in that situation and then being, "Oh, I'll wait until the normal. I'm out with the schedule. So I better not send an email now," but you've just found a different route in. You've thought outside the box, and I think there's definitely some power to that. It might not work for everybody in every situation, but why not try it? I mean, what was the worst that could have happened? He said, "No," or you didn't get a reply, and then you apply at the normal time anyway, so. I think it's great that you've really just sort of put yourself out there and took a risk, and it worked out. And I think from my understanding of your journey, that's kind of happened quite a bit for you-

Sara Kolata (07:23):

A lot.

Anne Okafor (07:23):

... that you've put yourself-

Sara Kolata (07:26):

I have a really weird talent of getting through the window, if they close the door. I've always done it, but don't get me wrong. It's really not about overconfidence. It doesn't come from that. It's just that sometimes I can't take no for an answer. But also I'm a dreamer, and I really want to fulfill some of the dreams. I'm very determined. So I think that's where it's coming from as well.

                And that thing about like, "What's the worst that can happen?" If you dream high and dream big and give yourself chances in life, if you don't even succeed at what you've dreamt out to be, you're still going to get halfway through. And that is admirable to a lot of people that haven't even tried, so I always, always say, "Try," because, at least, you see if it worked and give yourself a chance. I think, take that leap of faith. I do understand that a lot of us struggle with that sort of inner voice telling us, "We're not good enough," and I certainly have it, too, but I give myself chances. I think, that's the only really difference, but I did certainly use that a lot in life. Just say, "Oh, let's try it out and see what happens."

Anne Okafor (08:33):

I think we could all take a bit of a leaf out of that book and be a little bit braver and just try. And it's really important, like you said, creating those opportunities for yourself. Sometimes you've got to go out and find those opportunities. And like you said, maybe find the window, if the door shut, or knock a bit harder or try something a little bit different. And sometimes it pays off.

                I know in your case, you started off in this architecture thing, but then you obviously had this, I guess, maybe unsatisfaction at some point that maybe it wasn't aligned with your values and where you wanted it to go. And I think part of that turning point and realization was a conference in Berlin?

Sara Kolata (09:16):

Yeah.

Anne Okafor (09:17):

Do you want to tell how that sort of realization came around that maybe you love architecture, but it's not quite aligned with what you value as a person?

Sara Kolata (09:28):

Yeah, so I think just to sort of go back a little bit, trace our steps back a little bit to what we just talked about. Someone once told me, and that's only putting words to an experience I had, that I haven't really been able to rephrase in such a way, but I think it's really, really valuable, and I love it. It's all about people. So wherever you want to go, what separate you from the dream is just that person that can't enable you to do that. So if you want to get a job, you just need to talk to the person that's the decision-maker to give you that job. And essentially, you've got to charm them or be honest with them, be authentic. And essentially, that's really the only thing that stems between you and getting there, so it's all about people.

                I think I love people, and I love talking to people and getting to know people. And so that's sort of what's been really important for me. And when I started to practice architecture, I had an internship in Shanghai. And very standard, you go into the office, and you do a lot of AutoCAD drawing and then 5:00 PM, you leave the office, that's it. And I missed that human element that I've always been very driven by. And also my ability to just be there and sort of creative and my creative mode, fire, passion. I didn't really have that experience. I was very much that CAD monkey, another computer agent sitting there and drawing, clicking the mouse. And I didn't like that, to be honest. I really kind of caved in. I struggled in that space.

                Somehow, then I decided, and also part of this experience was actually realizing that a lot of the work that was being done, especially in China, with big offices sort of getting involved with huge monumental projects or even urban planning sort of scale of things. I saw that a lot of that was very kind of I would say ego-driven and maybe people were missing that element of sustainability, human-centered design, or even looking at economy really and putting things into context.

                I've seen a lot of these mistakes, like beautifully-designed cities that were unoccupied in China or taking away land from indigenous people and mislocating them so that these huge corporations could come in and build. And, of course, it was a great playground for architects, but something was missing. And I think it really hurt me. Something got triggered in me. And I remember on the way to the office, I would always pass by this little square between buildings, where it was just high walls and people living inside.

                It looked like a really, really poor village inside of a big city, pretty much next to People's Square in Shanghai. Not sure if it's still there, but it was certainly there in 2010, when I lived there. And on my way to the office, I would always pass that place. And I thought, "What is this poor people doing in the center of town? Where they come from? And why is this particular place there?"

                As I researched it a little bit more, I found out that basically there were people that lived on these land originally, and then the land got just bought off by huge corporations. Probably the end result was that these people got very little money for this. And then they just got cramped into that horrible little place. And off we go, economy's growing. Shanghai's becoming a big city. And these people are forgotten and actually didn't really get any value for the money or a better life, nothing, basically, they're at poverty.

                It was really touching. I thought, "Is there a way in architecture to be a little bit more alert about these sort of things and a bit aware and to do soulful architecture?" Is it possible to be more human- centered, and not to have that sort of heavy guilt feeling that I was feeling whilst I doing these projects also for the internship. And I think that's where it all started for me.

                And then referring to the conference that you speak of. It was a conference that I attended in Berlin shortly after my Shanghai internship, where that was already my quest to find potentially new examples of how architecture can be practiced. Because believe it or not, in London, we haven't really been taught so much about how different applications of architecture, so we very much sort of followed this celebrity architecture culture. And I wasn't aware that there is such a thing as humanitarian architecture. I really wasn't. And so when I started to think, "Okay, I want to do things that are a little bit more meaningful. What would that mean for my career? Where would I go? I mean, how would I make money?"

                So, as you see, there's been a lot of frustration and looking for a meaning in all of it that basically resulted in a lot of different decision-making and choices. And in that particular conference in Berlin, I remember it was a gathering of architects that actually did a lot of humanitarian work. And something that really struck me is how these people basically, they were traveling around the world, building a lot of projects from design to completions, to design builds, mostly. Collaborating with communities, doing things that were meaningful. But also there's this sort of their faces were like burnt to the sun. And they had these wrinkles in their eyes, like smiley, or from maybe tilting your eyes a little bit from the sun or whatever, but their faces look different to what I was usually used to seeing in architects. Like the seriousness and maybe some being overworked, that kind of different dynamic, different mimic in the face. And I sat there, and I just thought, "Oh, my God, I want to be this kind of architect."

                That's sort of what drove me then to read books like Barefoot Architect, and slowly start to develop in that direction. And soon after, I actually took another leap of faith towards my dreams and moved to Guatemala without a language, to do communitarian work in architecture. And that started another chapter.

Anne Okafor (15:25):

Amazing. It's just such a whirlwind and, even going to all these different countries and working and learning and living in places that you don't have the language and learning all these new sort of skills and things like that. And I think, in Guatemala, again, while you were learning new things, you were also coming across some challenges, I think. And you were almost, I think, you referred to it as solving problems that people didn't want to pay for?

Sara Kolata (15:25):

Yes.

Anne Okafor (15:51):

So now you are coming across this sort of, you were able to get into some of the humanitarian and the community kind of spirited work, but then it was, how do you pay for this? So then you have that sort of problem. And how do you align this with a business mindset? And how do we make this sort of, I guess, financially viable, so that we can help the community, but also live and make money as a business, as well? Would that be fair?

Sara Kolata (16:14):

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, something that I want to add to it is that, it might sound very flashy, "Wow, this girl, she's traveled. Did internship here and there." My parents are actually very middle class Polish family. I have not been supported by my parents since I moved out from home at the age of 18. So I made everything happen by working as a waitress, nannying in England, and doing these sort of jobs where it was pretty much cash-in-hand or something that was making me maybe, I don't know, 800 pound per month.

                A lot of people, after we graduated, went to work for big names and big architecture firms. Some of them were maybe not paid the best, but still had that status. Living in London, working for this big guy and slowly hoping to advance. And I very early on left that journey. And so something I really want to mention is that it was associated with a lot of guilt and feeling of failure. The beginning of times, when I decided to not continue with internships or work for the big guy, I started to feel like a little bit lost. A little bit, "I don't know what to do now. Am I wasting my time? Am I falling behind? Will anyone now recruit me if I haven't, for example, worked for an architecture practice and grow my portfolio since I graduated?" So there was, all the time, this kind of fight within. And I didn't really have a role model or someone like a little bit, like a leader or someone older than me to tell me, "Hey, it's fine to find your way."

                Most of the people were doing what they were told or went to work. And I was really struggling sort of. So eventually, when I came up with this idea, "Okay, I'm going to move to Guatemala and do charity work." I actually ended up working there for $400 a month. So I barely paid like a small accommodation, and that was it, so I wasn't really making much. And then there came new experiences of realizing how the charity was operating and perhaps not delivering the most sustainable of projects. And there was cases, for example, where most of the indigenous people were helping, were cooking outdoors, that's what they do. That's just how their culture goes, so they always have open kitchens because they cook on open fire.

                The charity would build them a kitchen space, like we know, traditionally, which was indoor, but these women didn't really know how to cook otherwise. And even if they got electric ovens, they didn't use them. They were using them as table. Putting cloths over it and eating off it, but then still making a fire indoors. Within a few years from delivering this kind of help, people started to develop lung illnesses and problems and health problems basically. And who was to blame for it? Was the architecture behind that sort of help.

                So there was a lot of this sort of stupid things that were happening, that again, I started to get really frustrated over. And by that point, I really felt like, "Okay, now I invested, I don't know, three years of my life into this." I knew that like, "It's not really any way for me to go back to London and get a job now with Norman Foster, with a bunch of mud huts I've built." So I thought, "Let's just take it to the next level and start doing our own projects."

                I started to fundraise. I started to look for sponsors. We grew a team, and I started to manage construction site. Of course, without being fully-titled an architect, I hired someone who was titled, who was basically better educated than me. And I also had a local engineer I paid to get me all the permits for building. And so I was more like a project manager or like a leader, like an entrepreneur, but not actually, operating within the full spectrum of how we understand architects to operate. Right?

Anne Okafor (20:00):

Sure.

Sara Kolata (20:00):

But we still started to build quite a lot. And it was a great experience. I did doubt myself a lot on that journey, I must say, because it was all new. And I think, towards the end, it became challenging, in respect of the fact that, I was eating sort of the experience of running a business with a massive spoon that sometimes wouldn't fit in my mouth, basically. It was like being fire-hosed with experiences having to take decisions, being a leader and starting from little things. Like we're built foundations, and they collapsed because we were building in sand because actually we're rebuilding village that was affected by a tsunami. And a bunch of money thrown away. All the builders, looking at me, "What we do now?"

                So having to take real strong leadership decisions as a woman. Speaking Spanish is my third language. Being a [foreign language 00:20:50] or a white person in Guatemala. Having to manage sort of men within a very macho culture. That was definitely a challenge. But I think what really pushed all my buttons the most at the time, was the entrepreneurship side of things. So basically really how you get clients. I was kind of uncomfortable negotiating my pay. I wasn't used to knowing how much I should charge for my services. So when I spoke with clients, I would like sweat and get really, really stressed. And you could see, I couldn't negotiate my price or sell myself properly. And it's because I didn't have any experience. I didn't know what to do with it.

                And that, and then also managing finances and everything, was certainly a challenge. And so it all resulted in a struggle, but also I wasn't making money. And it was okay for the first five years because I was like, "Oh, it's a charity, anyway." But at some point, I was hitting 30, and I thought, "I cannot be this broke in my 30s. I swear to God. As great as this experience is, no, I can't, I cannot." And so I think by then I already knew that I'm an entrepreneur, and I will continue starting businesses and causing this crazy challenge things to happen. So I better learn better about business and marketing. And that's really where I started to study business and marketing.

Anne Okafor (22:17):

And then, so from that journey then, how do you get from, "Okay, I'm going to start learning these things, better start learning business and marketing because there'll be lots of people out there that are starting new businesses and setting out new journeys." So how do you get from that point then to sort of realizing, "Well, I want to become sort of my full potential. I want to be able to actually almost be that cheerleader that you never had." You said that you felt quite lost when you were on that journey, back-

Sara Kolata (22:46):

Exactly.

Anne Okafor (22:46):

... when you were in the early days. And I guess now what you do and the offering that you have in your services, is to be that cheerleader and that someone for the next generation of people coming through those journeys. I think it's really important that you made a bold decision to step away from the crowd. Turn your back on what the traditional route to architecture was, and scary. Everyone is in these big firms and having that status, and you're out in a field in Guatemala. And it's incredible, but I can appreciate at the time it probably wouldn't have felt all that incredible some days.

Sara Kolata (23:22):

No, absolutely not. I mean, I operated a lot from a feeling of being lost and fearful. And I don't know if this just isn't like a little bit of a blueprint of what entrepreneurship is about. I mean, at the end of the day, you're taking lots of gambles and loads of risks. And one of the things that you didn't mention, it's a huge word for me, is these people that had these internships, they had security, and I did not have security. No one could guarantee me that, whether the projects and the investments or the money or the things that, my decisions will pan out. And I think it's quite natural that we all are afraid of failure. And if you're gambling a lot, and you put your face there, and you disappoint people, because you will. It's hard, it's really hard. Sometimes it's hard to sleep with this or hard to live with that. So it was not easy, but I think that I just, first struggled, and then I needed to learn to give myself a little bit of a slack and actually learn to be better.

                And that's the whole thing. When you do things outside of how normally people operate, if you start a business, if you take time off from work. Or if you don't have a stable income or whatever you start, even a thing like this podcast, for the first 100 episodes, it's very hard to get a sponsor. So a lot of times when you listen to podcasts, these people are actually doing this for free because they love to. So appreciate the reality as well of how it is to start a business or what it is like.

                I think, I kind of started to give myself a little bit more of a slack, when I actually started to do business conferences, marketing conferences, surround myself with more entrepreneurs and realize that I'm not alone. Because before that, I was very much in this kind of guilt trip or just questioning myself, "What am I doing?" But when I started to realize that there is more and more people around me, or I can connect with people that are actually living their life similarly and taking a gamble and working really hard, sometimes maybe keeping a full-time job because they have a family to support on top of it. And then staying up at night to write a book or start a website or start a coaching business or whatever. This is really where everything has been put into perspective. And I thought. "Maybe I didn't make so much money in my 20s, but it least I didn't have responsibility to take for a family." And it was a really good learning curve.

                And something that I learned in this training within entrepreneurship, is that I have a value because of my experiences. And because I was always looking at, "Do I have enough experience as an architect? Do I have enough experience as a business owner? Am I good enough for, whatever, as a builder, as a designer," all that stuff? But actually something that really has come down on me when I was doing all this training was, "Hey, you are a very strong person, and you are interesting just because of the way you think and what you do with your life and how you do things differently." And perhaps that could be the only value that will differentiate you. But if I own it, instead of being scared or all the time, questioning myself, and operating out of that space of fear. But owning it, owning it and being empowered by that exact thing that was getting me anxious before, then could I potentially build on that and be an example or a light for someone else?

                I think, my story is not a story of, "Oh, my God, when I was 23, I made a million dollars, and now I'm a business coach because I was so successful." My story is, "I really fucked up," excuse my language. And from these mistakes, I've learned basically to be a little bit more authentic. And I think that's what entitles me today to work with people because I can understand. And if that doesn't speak to someone, you're not my client. But if it speaks to you, then we can achieve a lot of amazing things.

                Because it's really a mindset shifts that can help your business and your career. It's not so much the expertise in business and marketing. Because those tools, we can read about them. We can find information. Do courses, but also knowledge alone doesn't really change much. It's the way you apply it. And the way it allows you to change yourself first, that's where the power is. And I think that when I had the realization within that, that's really when I started to grow more in empowerment and owning myself more and sort of owning my story as well. And as a result, really a lot of beautiful things started to fruit from it now.

Anne Okafor (28:08):

Yes, I think as well, one thing that really resonated with me, you talk about ownership, and I think you've wrote on the subject before about making choices and the power that actually recognizing that we have choices because sometimes I think people feel trapped. Or the stories even that we tell ourselves, I've been guilty of it a long time is telling myself your story doesn't maybe make you good enough or doesn't maybe make you eligible to do this or to pursue that. But actually when you choose to tell yourself something different, when you choose to tell yourself, actually, because of your experiences, that's where your value is and owning that.

Sara Kolata (28:08):

Exactly.

Anne Okafor (28:48):

Making that realization that there is a choice in that, rather than just feeling trapped by things, as well?

Sara Kolata (28:54):

I really love psychology, and I study, or whenever I can, I read about it. And, for example, one thing that really stuck with me is, if you think that you know something as a fact, like this is your truth, for example. I don't know, maybe I'm not experienced enough to do this or whatever. Ask yourself, is it really so? And is that really true? Because what's true for you. You need to actually see the principles that are driving that belief. And if that belief, for example, came because when you were five, you were playing a game in the playground, and someone told you, "No, you're not good enough." Or they chose you to the team last. And you told yourself, "I'm always last. I'm not good enough. I don't belong with the big guys." And so. That is driving your decision. Then that's really a way of thinking of a five-year-old, not a mature person.

                So sometimes it's really worth it to examine your beliefs and to say, "Hey, where's this really coming from? I mean, am I really like that bad? Or is it just something I've been telling myself? And is this true? Or is this just a way in which I've been seeing myself that's been disempowering?" And that really can help. And I think that realizing that in the world, we have so many different perspectives on things, just as many people, this many perspectives. And one situation can for one person be very traumatic, for another might be very empowering. So how can one set of events influence two people differently? It's because of the way they perceived it, how they've seen it.

                So, if we just, at least, try to give ourselves another story. Maybe something that can empower us a little bit more about our past or about the way we do business or how we relate to people or how good of a designer we are, or whether or not we could potentially start a business and take more responsibility. All of this can be that ignite or for change, really. And then that change kind of happens simultaneously, it's reflected in inner and outer because as you change your life, a lot of things will change. And you can't even tell inside or outside, you just know things changed. And I love that because through making maybe risky decisions or giving myself more chances at life, I get to live a more interesting life.

                For example, today, after I've been running this coaching business for a few years, I realized I still very much love to travel, and I want to continue doing that. So I became more and more determined to make my business work so that I can freely travel. And then I also recently started to skydive, which is an incredible challenge. I absolutely love it. It terrifies me every day I do it. And, I just thought skydiving's really expensive, so I basically just need to really commit to my business and start making more, so I can enjoy life more.

Anne Okafor (31:52):

Good for you.

Sara Kolata (31:52):

I don't think how. I don't think anymore, "How I'm going to do it?" I just realized I just want to have a better life, yet a better life. And so something, maybe for some people, it's like a big deal to leave your job. For other people, it's like, "Well, let's make money online. Let's move online, so I can be free and travel." And all of this is progression. You can do everything, really everything. And I think that there is completely no limit at opportunities and dreams. There's no cap, there's no ceiling, honestly.

Anne Okafor (32:31):

Your heart. You can do whatever your heart tells you really, if you've got the mind to sort of take a bit of a chance on yourself, I think.

Sara Kolata (32:39):

Exactly. And do things that scare you. I swear to God, it just does wonders for your brain. Something happens in your brain, and you just start growing a muscle of, "I can, I can." And trust me, when I get to 4,000 feet up in the sky, and the door opens, no matter what experience I got in parachuting and whatever, I'm always, like my lizard brain says, "What the heck are you doing? This is opposite to survival, don't." But then, I'm like, "No, it's okay. I've got the skills. I know what I'm doing. Let's have fun." And every single day doing something tiny that scares you, but you just start examining this muscle. And I think that's needed for relationships, for everything. And personal growth goes hand-in-hand with business.

                And another thing that I think is really important to mention is that architecture might be presented in a very traditional way and how you know it is a very traditional industry. But nowadays with internet, with social media, with technology, we can do so many things to provide value for one another. And all of this can translate into making money, so you're no longer limited to see yourself only as a person that can provide design and exchange for money. And you're no longer limited to work in a traditional way for your money by exchanging time for money.

                Think about how other people make money by exchanging value by selling online products, coaching, courses, teaching, selling books. There are so many different ways in which you can grow as an expert in your practice in architecture. Niching out into what you really love, whether it's sustainability or human- centered design or whatever it is, could be facade or engineering. But being able to become this all round person and represent yourself, not putting your future in someone else's hands. But just standing up and saying, "You know what, I will publish my book. I will position myself as an expert. I will coach and teach, and I'll speak at conferences. And I'll grow my career on my own." And that's an interesting journey. You can do it, to start it with part-time, but it is a journey of self-discovery. And I really, really encourage you, if you're on the fence, or you're thinking that this could be interesting for you, to try because it is a personal growth experience after all.

Anne Okafor (34:57):

No, I think definitely there's something about that comfort zone and that where we grow is you've got to get a little bit uncomfortable with that. And I think, one of my exercise coaches says, "It's getting sort of comfortably uncomfortable." You're getting comfortable with the uncomfortable, putting yourself out there a little bit, stretching that rubber band just a little bit more the next time. Maybe for you in the plane, it'll be going up another few thousand feet the next time or a different location or something like that. And it really does make us grow.

Sara Kolata (35:27):

Absolutely.

Anne Okafor (35:28):

All of this, it sounds super exciting and super high-charged, I guess sometimes. What do you do for downtime apart from skydiving? Do you do other sort of self-care things? What do you do for [crosstalk 00:35:43]?

Sara Kolata (35:43):

I love to take baths. Honestly, I'm an addict. I do this almost every day in the evening, candles, bathtub, this sort of stuff. I love it. I read books as well. I spend a lot of time with my animals. I have a dog that I walk and a cat that I cuddle with.

Anne Okafor (35:57):

Me, too.

Sara Kolata (35:58):

And tick all the boxes, like watching Netflix, cuddled up or going out and hiking in the mountain with your dog. But I do, I do. I'm just like a normal person. I watch too much TV, sometimes Netflix mainly, you know?

Anne Okafor (36:16):

Yeah. [inaudible 00:36:17]. A lot of times, you know?

Sara Kolata (36:20):

Yeah. I procrastinate and all that stuff. And I think I try to do things that relate to my interest. So I don't force myself towards doing anything. But I try to, and exercise and go to the gym and swim and just have fun with things. So as much as I feel that every thing is in some kind of moderation, then I'm satisfied and happy.

                But I've also worked through depression in my life. And so I think that sometimes when I build these stronger days, I can come to a lot of appreciation of them because of the past struggle that I experienced and how I struggled maybe to take myself out of it. So I think that it's worth to remember that a lot of times when we get challenges, when we have maybe a more challenging time, eventually, it's to put things into a better perspective and help us appreciate and just get up and get stronger. And basically, it is just, it's something [crosstalk 00:37:19] about it.

Anne Okafor (37:20):

The times and the struggle really do help us to learn how to manage those times as well. And as we get stronger, and as we grow, we learn more, and we put in things like self-care. We know, actually, "I need to lie in the bath for a couple of hours. I need to get my book out, or I actually, do you know what tonight? I just need to put Netflix on and binge something," and that's perfectly fine. And I think there's so much about, "Oh, don't do this and don't do that. And you must be up at five o'clock in the morning," but actually it's find what works for you.

Sara Kolata (37:51):

Of course.

Anne Okafor (37:52):

Find something you enjoy. Something that actually calms you, or chills you, gives you a chance to breathe from all the wonderful stuff that we do. And I think that's really important. So thank you for sharing those things with us.

                Just before we sort of close up, I just want to give you an opportunity to tell us about the types of clients that you look to work with. I think you focus on maybe three types of architect, that's your main focus. If you want to, maybe just let us know what those clients maybe look like and maybe give us an overview of your services that you offer. I know, you've got your podcasts, and you do training and events. If you want to give us a little overview, just so people know what all the amazing stuff that Sara can offer, would be fab.

Sara Kolata (38:33):

Pleasure. So essentially I love working with the type of clients that are looking for personal growth and are looking to invest in themselves to become better entrepreneurs, better business owners, and actually want to make money because I really believe that a lot of things come down to abundance. And so it resonates with me to give back and make more or attract more through giving back. So I love this sort of mindset or way of approaching reality and creating businesses that are conscious, that are in service, and also positioning yourself in a powerful position through that. So essentially I work with architects that are looking to find better clients, better projects, to define a better communication strategy that presents them to the world in a more authentic light. And we use a lot of digital transformation techniques to make your life easier, so that you don't have to spend all your days approaching clients, but we can use tools to do it for you. And then you just follow up with just the hot leads. So we're equipped with a lot of digital marketing tools and sales techniques that help the process.

                And the three types of clients that I serve are architects that are working for someone else who are looking to start a business. People who work in academia, and are wanting to position themselves as experts, so basically publish their work, start to speak more, and build a academic profile that is stronger and potentially also start making money from consulting in your field or collaborating with other architecture practices as an expert. So basically, mainly leading with your expertise in consultancy. And then the third type of clients are business owners who want to grow their business. I have worked with small practices, medium-sized, but also practices that make over 4 million turnover per year. So really any clients [crosstalk 00:40:33] and here we focus mostly on your communication strategy, and sales.

                So very much so, cracking on the numbers, understanding very well how to set up campaigns, and who your ideal client is. Because I realize that a lot of times people sell architecture, but sometimes don't know whether the people you're selling to are the ones that really need it or resonate with your message. So it's very important to sort of focus that in and get the clarity that is needed to run your business and grow it forward. And so those are sort of the clients, mostly the clients I work with. And I provide a lot of different services. We can do one-on-one consulting. I have masterminds, where you can join a group, that's sort of cheaper program, or also I have online courses that help you grow a business and also leverage digital tools. So those are mainly, you get the information, but you implement everything on your own.

Anne Okafor (41:26):

Cool.

Sara Kolata (41:26):

So either, we do it for you, with you, or you implement it all on your own. But essentially, that's kind of how the business model works.

Anne Okafor (41:35):

So there's plenty of options for many different clients that may be interested, which is really good to know. Would you be able to give us an example of when a client really excelled from one of your programs? Or just something that really blew you away from some of the lessons that you maybe helped someone with? And then they came up with something that you didn't expect.

Sara Kolata (41:56):

I mean, I think, that I feel really warm in my heart when we start doing sessions, and I get a client who doesn't really quite know exactly what sort of business he would start, or she would start and what sort of what could they do? A lot of times clients come to me, and they say, "I want to start a business. I don't really know what." And just in few sessions, we start to understand better who they are. And I think that it also works like a mirror. They get to know themselves better through it. And actually, I think in the first sort of initial surprise, a lot of times, it's to realize what sort of amazing businesses can come from these people. I don't impose my ideas onto my clients. A lot of times we do self-discovery workshops, and they lead us to an answer, so that your soul can choose really the best-case scenario and the sort of life or career that you would mostly enjoy.

                Because sometimes we don't realize that some implications of a dream might be hard to take, like too many hours in front of a computer, or maybe having a physical office that you need to pay for. Maybe those things, those ideas of how we envision business is not the best for us, so I love that initial change. But for example, working three months with an architect in San Francisco, we did a lot of clarity sessions. He's 60 something. He had a business for about 40 years, and he was mostly in residential, and his dream was to move to a more public building. And when we were doing our workshops, he would always say, "I really want to work for Tesla. That's my dream, Elon Musk." And I was like, "Okay, let's take it one step at a time." And I don't know how, but he landed a project with Elon Musk, and they're doing a factory building in San Francisco.

                And it's incredible because when you get the clarity, it's almost like you send to the universe a very clear message of what you want. And that thing comes in its purest form. So the work needs to be done on you. Like what exactly you want and what sort of clients you want to work? With rather than sweating on, "Who do I need to meet? And what should I say? And whether I should have this portfolio or that portfolio? Or am I good enough or not?" No, it's all about you and inside. And so those were definitely sort of most gratifying experiences, and I really enjoy it. And I can't really tell you how it happens. It's just collaboration and clarity, and a lot of things come from that. A lot of opportunities come from that.

Anne Okafor (44:27):

Yeah. No, I think there's definitely something to be said for that sort of energy of manifestation and just going after that one thing that you really want to go after. So just to wrap up, what would be your top three tips for someone who is maybe looking to align their career with their authentic selves and values, like what you've done? What would your top three tips be? I think we've probably covered them throughout the chat, but just to condense them down so that we can get focused.

Sara Kolata (44:55):

So honestly, the first thing is take risks, and don't punish yourself so much. Give yourself a slack and some self-love. It's okay to make mistakes. They make you stronger. And it might sound crazy or like, oh, something that people repeat a lot, but it's really, really true. It's really true. You grow through mistakes, and it's okay to make them.

                The second thing is, do things that scare you, basically really do, because it helps exercise a muscle of inner confidence or something that actually builds a better you for the future. And the third thing is, and I really mean it, not because I'm a business mentor, but most of the time when I was really, really lost, I needed someone to come in and give me good advice or to hold my hand for a little bit. And open up to mentorship. Open up to finding someone who understands you and is dedicated to helping.

                And it's a little bit untraditional, yet in architecture to go and hire a business mentor or get some coaching in that direction, but it becomes more and more popular. And as you mentioned already, Anne, you also have coaches, and you also have people that support you. And I have the same, guys, both in skydiving, in the gym, in singing. I sing, and I need to have a teacher, otherwise, I don't know how I sing. I can't tell you, whether I'm making progress or not.

                And same with business, I'm surrounded by business coaches. Some of them are strictly sales-oriented and help me with sales and creating campaigns. Others, more marketing-oriented. But because I've been doing this for over six years now or something like that, I'm becoming better and better at it myself. And so that's really important. And so open up to those things.

Anne Okafor (46:45):

I totally agree with the mentorship as well. I think we all, no matter what level you're at, I think you can make use of having a mentor or someone, who's walked the path just slightly ahead of you to give you that insights and some direction, so that's really fabulous.

                Could you tell us where our listeners can find you if they want to connect with you and learn more or listen to your podcast? Because there's amazing, loads of resources, that you have out there. And I'm sure people would really find them useful. So if you tell us where you are online or in socials, then people can find you. That would be great.

Sara Kolata (47:14):

So I have a lot of social media platforms, probably the strongest are YouTube and LinkedIn. You can find me on both of them on Sara Kolata, Kolata with a K. But I really recommend just checking out the website, Sara Kolata.com because you'll find all the shows, all the different interviews, my blog, and my podcasts. And then also if you subscribe to the mailing list, you'll get notified about events and training and webinars that I organize.

                Soon in March, there is a bigger conference that I'm organizing, which is all about business of architecture. And we're going to bring under one roof, basically, leaders from top 15 architecture practices, including Big, Zaha Hadid, Norman Foster, Chipperfield, Heatherwick, you name it. SOM, Gensler, Arabarch, OMA, so it is really, really, it's going to be an incredible event. I'm really looking forward to it. And we're going to talk all things business. So you see, through these kind of things, there's a lot of learning, but if you are interested to potentially speak to me, you can also book through my calendar on SarahKolata.com/contact, just book a 20-minute free chat with me and say hello. We can get to know each other and see if we're a good fit to work together.

Anne Okafor (48:33):

Awesome. Thank you so much. We'll include the link to your website and the socials that you mentioned in the show notes, anyway, so that people can directly get there from the show notes on the podcast. Thank you so much for sharing these amazing insights, Sara, it's been amazing. Honestly, the way you've worked to sort of orchestrate and design.

                I mean, it sounds a bit corny saying an architect has designed a life that allows you to sort of live congruently with the values that you have as a humanitarian with that added benefit of helping others do the same, really remarkable. It's been excellent to talk to you and really inspiring. Not sure I want to go out for a skydive yet, but it's really fired me up. So thank you so much for that. I really appreciate your time this afternoon.

Sara Kolata (49:20):

And I must say I absolutely love the podcast. I love that you are sharing stories on this podcast that are not your traditional way of maybe talking about yourself. I really love to have the opportunity also open up a little bit more about my story to your audience. So thank you for creating that space for all of us as guests. And also a huge thank you to the audience, because I think it's incredible that you guys are tuning into this content. It's really authentic, valuable. And I really, really hope that this grows bigger than Anne even can imagine.

Anne Okafor (49:56):

Well, I'm certainly inspired from your advice about taking risks and by that sort of manifestation. I'll need to go write down some goals. Maybe not Elon Musk for me, but some stage, somewhere, I'll need to write down a goal. So thank you so much. To our listeners, whether you're bouncing back or storming forward, The Determinator Collective is here for you. Stay remarkable, determinators.

Speaker 1 (50:21):

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, so you don't miss when new episodes are posted. We will continue to deliver real life insights on overcoming challenges, practical tips, and advice on becoming unstuck with a collective of people, just like you, our everyday determinators. Until next time, take care of yourselves and your friends. Thanks for listening, determinators.