Quirks, Bumps, and Bruises
Take a trip with the Morning JoyRide®️as Candi and Melody discuss the humorous side of real issues facing families today.
Quirks, Bumps, and Bruises
Guiding the Next Generation: Biblical Wisdom for Pastors & Worship Leaders
Melody sits down with Parker Webb, Worship Pastor at Green Street Baptist Church, and Pastor Ben Webb, Pastor of Enon Baptist Church. Together, they share invaluable advice for young pastors and worship leaders, offering encouragement and practical wisdom for those stepping into ministry. They also discuss the crucial role of worship music in the church, emphasizing the importance of ensuring that the songs we sing on Sunday mornings are doctrinally sound and align with Scripture. Whether you're a church leader, worshipper, or simply passionate about faith-filled music, this conversation is filled with insight and inspiration. Don't miss this thoughtful and enriching conversation on Quirks, Bumps & Bruises!
Hi, I'm Melody and I'm Candy, and you're listening to Quirks, bumps and Bruises. On this episode of Quirks, bumps and Bruises, we sit down with Parker Webb and Pastor Ben Webb and talk about topics that I think are very important, and I think you're going to enjoy hearing what they have to say giving some advice to young pastors and worship leaders, as well as the importance of music and theology and the songs that we sing while we worship. But, as you know, candy is out on maternity leave and I like having people in here with me because I get bored very easy. So I've asked the one and only Parker Webb, who, by the way, co-hosted with me last week. I loved it. Thank you for having me back. Well, you're welcome. You're welcome, we'll have you back again. And then my sweet, adorable, kind, loving son-in-law you forgot humble listen, brother.
Speaker 2:You're gonna have to ping pong that one back to her some point this morning.
Speaker 1:I can tell you pastor ben webb, pastor of eden baptist church in east bend, north carolina, and then parker you are worship leader at green street that's right church in high point, north car, carolina and so we were talking kind of off the air and I said you know, this is something good to talk about. So I said let's hold that conversation and then let's talk about this. So the question is this and I will start with you, ben, as a pastor if you could give one piece of advice for a new pastor coming up they come to you and they're just starting, it's their first church what would that piece of advice be?
Speaker 4:First piece of advice every guy that I'm involved in ordaining, I give them this one piece of advice, and that's just be yourself. Don't try to be anybody else. God didn't make you to be anybody else, and if God's called you to a church, then God's called you, not someone else. And if you're emulating their success, you're actually going to do harm to the church, because God called you to be there, not them. If he'd have wanted someone else there, he'd have sent them there. So be yourself, be what God made you. Melody, you know this. I'm a 75-year-old man stuck in a 35-year-old man's body.
Speaker 1:You kind of are, but so is.
Speaker 2:Parker no, listen, I'm old soul.
Speaker 1:I think that's why you two connect so well. I know, I know.
Speaker 4:But the older I get, the more comfortable. I am with that For sure. I'm okay being me. I'm the only 36-year-old I know that would rather be wearing a suit and tie and cuff links French cuff than whatever is popular right now. But the older I get, the more comfortable. I am with that For sure, just being myself.
Speaker 1:And, and you're going to stick with it, I'm going to, so just be yourself.
Speaker 4:Don't try to emulate anyone else.
Speaker 1:You can give too, if you'd like.
Speaker 4:Okay, the second piece of advice I'd give a young pastor is get to know your sheep, and by that I mean get to know what they struggle with, what they're dealing with. But if you can learn early on in ministry to recognize the difference between mental health issues and spiritual issues, it will save you a lot of grief and a lot of time For sure. And there are ways to learn to recognize the differences, because people with mental health issues need help they genuinely need help, but they don't need a scripture and a pat on the back and a prayer to tell them to just do better. And so you're going to go through the same patterns over and over and over with those people and never actually see any progress. So if you can learn to spot the difference between something that's a mental health issue and something that's actually a spiritual issue, it will save you so much time and make your ministry so much more productive.
Speaker 1:You know, it's kind of like teachers in school you have the kids that tend to sometimes disrupt, and they're labeled that as a disruptor, when in actuality they may have ADD or just some situations that need some medication or whatever the case may be. I think the same in church, some that are maybe dealing with some mental issues, could, without maybe trying, cause some issues within the church. But it's not really about that, it's about this, and so to be able to recognize that, I think is good. And as a side note, before I ask Parker, I will say that Ben did get to know the sheep at Crestwood, where I go to church, and he married her.
Speaker 2:I stay in one step beyond the call of duty, right there.
Speaker 1:We're going to move on to you, parker, as a worship leader. You've got a young, 20-something worship leader coming in, excited, ready to go. What are you going to tell them as?
Speaker 2:advice Same thing, especially on the music side. I see guys trying to emulate whoever their hero is in the faith, whoever they experience growing up. Thankfully, our family was on the road for 40 years and my example was my dad. So I saw the perfect example. My dad was never trying to emulate anybody. He was being true to who he was and who God called him to be, and the Lord blessed it.
Speaker 2:And so I would say the same, especially worship leaders. Now we're talking about an artist on that side, but on the worship leader side, your job is to lead and to give the congregation, I would say, the permission to lead and to join you in worship. So when you're getting up there and they're looking at you and they think you're trying to be like Gerald Wolfe doing the hymn, gerald Wolfe leads the hymn, sing like nobody else. The amazing thing about Gerald Wolfe is he has vocal issues going on right now. Half the time he's not even singing, but Gerald is able, with the help of the Holy Spirit, lead that congregation like nobody else. So, ben, you're spot on. God created you unique. He called you into that. Whatever that role is at your local church, be who he created you to be. And so so I think it's the same for pastors and for preachers and for worship leaders.
Speaker 1:So, Ben, you had something you kind of wanted to add to all of this discussion.
Speaker 4:Embrace your handicaps Right, the things that you're weak at Now. I'm not saying we can't get better Right but there are some things that I just don't have. That's right that other people do. There are some handicaps that I have that others don't have, but those handicaps may be intentional, Totally. They may be given by God for specific reasons.
Speaker 4:I think of the Old Testament judge I can't remember what's his name the left-handed judge that killed Eglon, and it was because he was left-handed. Left-handed was considered a handicap at the time. Some even thought that you were demonic if you were left-handed. It was his left-handedness that enabled him to smuggle in a dagger and take out the king of Moab. So your handicaps may actually be a gift. I struggled for so long to ask God for so long God, would you free me to be able to preach just off the cuff without a manuscript? And it was almost like God did with Paul where he said, no, I'm not going to do that. Now I've realized I want to publish some things in the future. I've realized I have stacks of books already written. They just need to be edited, because I've written three and four thousand word manuscripts every Sunday for the last 10 years. That's right, and so your handicaps may actually be God's gifts for his glory, so don't run from them.
Speaker 2:Embrace them For sure. Well, and that was the case for me at seminary, I had the biggest struggle that's the kindest way I can say it with sitting around talking about music all day long. I struggled. In theory it was just a major struggle. Well, I do believe God is using that in my life, knowing I would be a worship pastor someday and I can kind of take all the extra fluff out of the technicalities of music and focus in on what is going to allow our people to worship God, what songs fit the DNA of our people that causes them to look upward towards God. And so you're right, I was a horrible student, absolutely horrible student. In fact. I had a teacher walk by my senior year. I had my cap and gown on and he leaned over as he was walking. He's like oh, by the way, you did pass the class so you can keep on walking up there to the.
Speaker 2:I was a horrible student but God used that, I believe, to help me stay focused on what I needed now, as a 38-year-old, as a worship pastor. So he uses our weaknesses 100%. Well, you see that all through the Bible right Moses and all the rest of them, that's the one he uses the most.
Speaker 1:Well, great advice, all right. You young pastors, you young worship leaders, you need to take heed, take advice, and I don't think that you guys could have said that any better. So, very well said. Let's move on to another important topic, which is music in the church. I want to play something for both of you, and then I want us to, on the other side of it, come back and discuss a little bit about this.
Speaker 5:Cool, this is why music in church should be put through the filter of a theological mind. Watch this. Because most Christians' theology comes from music. They know way more songs than they know scripture. I mean, I know I'm right about it. You say, quote a scripture they can't Give me a song. There ain't no song. So if the theology of the song is off, they're believing God to perform something he never promised.
Speaker 1:All right, guys, that's a biggie Theology and music, that's right, and that most people know their theology by the songs they sing on Sunday. Sorry, pastor Ben, but it's the truth. It's the truth, yeah, which is sad. Yeah, it's sad. So, parker, as a worship leader, I'll let you start and kind of give your take on that.
Speaker 2:I actually call certain phrases and people's approach, especially in the church, country music, christianity. Now that I just use that because country music is sometimes the worst. You know well, we lost Papaw and he's up wings flying around. You know all this crazy stuff. Well, a lot of that came from music where people just threw in random stuff. But the church is even worse because we sometimes will use what? Oh, it's a great phrase, oh, that phrase works for that verse, oh, that's great, but is it theologically sound?
Speaker 2:And Ben and I talk about this on a regular basis, the music. We will be held as accountable if we are singing and leading unbiblical, poor, theologically based songs. As the pastor that gets up there and preaches poor theology, I would agree, mainly because of who we are as humans and what music does. Music can get stuck in your head. I'll have a song stuck in my head for days and I just can't get it out of my head. Well, that's the power of the instrument of music, the tool of music.
Speaker 2:But then when you put bad theology in there, it gets ingrained. You know, god will never give you more than you can, and all these phrases he wants me to be rich, right, right and you can, and all these phrases, me to be rich, right, right, no, he does, he does not. And guess what? I know of people that have had more on them than they physically can bear. So all of these things, all these little phrases, it is dangerous, and music can be so dangerous, it can also be the most incredible. So that's why, as far as when I go out on the road, when I leave my church and go perform all over the country, there's a song that I put in our set and it's in Christ alone.
Speaker 2:I believe that that song encompasses the gospel from start to finish, and there are many others and a theologically correct, play Theologically correct and just like Amazing Grace and I believe in Christ alone is the new Amazing grace. But, point being, I never want to end a set without having that song in that set somewhere. There again, theology can be totally misconstrued because of a catchphrase or all that ends a chorus. Well, you know so. So it's crucial and worship leaders will stand before the throne and be held accountable for not just taking the time to look up Scripture and see is this sound doctrine?
Speaker 1:Let me say this A lot of music today is very me-centered. I've noticed it's like the ah, ah, ah.
Speaker 4:For sure.
Speaker 1:Instead of focusing on who he is. That's right. That's one big thing I've noticed. The other that's so sad is that we are so biblically illiterate that we don't even know that it's bad theology, Right? So you see churches across America with hands raised, singing at the top of their lungs a sentence or two or three. That is totally not in God's word and that's scary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, it is, it is and it's rampant, and I believe that the music industry as a whole is to blame for it and the commercialism of the music. I am a professional musician. I have traveled for now 20 years. I've had songs all over radio, like Joy FM. It's a wonderful tool, but let me tell you, just like everything else, satan can get a footh and he can confuse. The enemy can confuse people and they think, oh, we're fine, well, it's allowing people to worship. So what's the harm? The harm is that it gets stuck and then, all of a sudden, they've adopted this poor theology as fact. It ain't got nothing to do with Scripture.
Speaker 1:Got to do better. That's right. I'm going to move to you, ben, as a pastor. What do you feel about that and how do you see it in the church? Just let me know your thoughts, what you feel.
Speaker 4:Well, I'm not a musician and I'm not the wisest person in the world, but as a pastor, when I look at it, I think that just because it mentions God doesn't mean it's gospel, and people do build their theology from what they sing. That's why it's so important that we sing things that are accurate about God. Scripture says my people perish for a lack of knowledge. The church is suffering because the church doesn't even know who God is. We have a tool in music.
Speaker 4:Have you ever thought about how unnecessary the gift of music is, and what I mean by that is? It's not something that God had to give us. It's not necessary for life. It's something that God gave us for pleasure, for enjoyment. It's something God gave us to be able to, in turn, use to worship, to express our worship to him. But it's something God gave us, if you want to put it this way, to catechize our people. We can teach our people doctrine and they will remember the song that we sung on Sunday way longer than they will the sermon I preached on Sunday. I get up in the morning and I find myself singing my toddler's songs that he watches on TV the night before. A tune gets in your head and it sticks there and I find myself singing things that are that are just absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Would you like to share one with us?
Speaker 2:The recent one.
Speaker 5:Skiddy, skiddy, skiddy how about that for you.
Speaker 2:There you are. The rest of the day.
Speaker 4:The recent one is I'm an excavator, but no. So these things get in our minds. We have an opportunity to teach. I find myself all through the week singing whatever we sang on Sunday. So I want to make sure that what we're singing on Sunday, you want it to be singable, you want it to be memorable that what we're singing on Sunday, you want it to be singable. You want it to be memorable, right, but you want it to be accurate about who God is, because eternity is a long time. And how many people are singing songs about God and songs about angels and they're confident that they're going to spend eternity in heaven with God, but they've never trusted Christ.
Speaker 4:It's like you mentioned, the country Christianity. So music is both so profitable and so dangerous at the same time it is. And so music is both so profitable and so dangerous at the same time it is. And Satan himself is a musician, the chief musician of heaven, that's right. He's the chief musician of heaven. The most beautiful Lucifer is the most beautiful creature that God ever created. So Satan will use beauty and sound to deceive people. I think music, even outside the realm of worship. Satan is using music more to destroy culture, to destroy families than he just about is anything music shapes our culture, so our music also shapes our churches.
Speaker 4:Therefore, our music should be sound theology, sound about who god is, sound about what god has done right. More of our songs should be him focused and less I focus. Yeah, if your songs are saying things about us over and over and over, I'm not saying that's wrong, but I would be really cautious as to what is it teaching me about God? Or is it teaching me that God is just there to cash my checks? Yes, and so Paul said in Ephesians to encourage one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Make a melody in your hearts. I think one of the things we could do to remedy this is sing more scripture. The average church doesn't make it a practice of singing the songs or taking and actually incorporating scripture into the songs. You can teach people to memorize scripture by teaching them scripture in songs, and that's a big movement. Today, a lot more are pushing towards using scripture in songs. That's a wonderful thing.
Speaker 1:I think the Gettys are a great example of that For sure. I just love and, Ben, you kind of got me on them years ago. I just think they have got it going on when it comes to good.
Speaker 1:First of all, good, solid theological lyrics, Beautiful melodies. Some of the melodies of their songs are just haunting, Hauntingly beautiful, if that makes sense, and so I think I would love to see the church get back to more of the you could call it contemporary hymns, like In Christ Alone, how Deep the Father's Love. I would love to see more of that type music than a phrase sung 123 times if that makes sense For sure.
Speaker 1:You know, in today's time there are many songwriters that are able to do just that kind of what we call contemporary hymns, and one of those that I love so very much are the Gettys. So, ben, what do you think about them? Because I know that when I listen to them, it's just something that their music does to my heart.
Speaker 4:The Gettys said that their purpose was to write beautiful songs, singable songs that were also sacred, that were also scripturally sound. That's their mission is to write songs that the church can sing, that teach a sound doctrine also.
Speaker 1:And that's another big part, parker, and you can weigh in on this too. One thing I found in the church with a lot of the newer music it's not singable for the average person.
Speaker 2:That is not a musician. Well, and I think a lot of that goes back to again the problem with commercial music. The same melodies have been happening since the 20s, since the radio was introduced. In fact, I had a prominent, very successful songwriter in Nashville tell me one time we're just recycling the same songs over and over. We just have to change the melody lines so we don't get sued for whatever. So it is so commercial in the sense and that's why they have to change those melody lines.
Speaker 2:In fact, I do believe that if you were to start backwards, start with Scripture first and then move to a melody that fits, and you know, hey, it might sound like something that happened in the 80s. That's all right, it's, it's. You know, don't, don't worry so much about the commercialism. Now, you don't want to. On the artistry side, you don't want to take away from somebody that you know when somebody has creatively really worked hard to write a song. But at the same time, what is gospel music? What is Christian music? What is, what is this that we are trying to achieve? Are we trying to make a book and make a hit, or are we trying to lead in worship of that background?
Speaker 2:But I went to the Gettys Conference in Nashville oh, you did. And City of Light was there and I went to their seminar on songwriting, hymn writing. They said it takes them nine to 13 months to write one song. Wow, because they sit and they think through, they pray over every single verse and chorus that's made One song Only a Holy God that they sing. Just back to what you said, instead of this, me, me, me, god and me, and it's more of who God is and how holy he is, the creator of the universe, the Lord Almighty.
Speaker 2:I do believe that there is a shift. We're not talking about senior adults writing these modern hymns. So there is a shift, and I do believe that we are. So there is a shift and I do believe that we are. I strongly believe we're getting back to more singing about who God is, scripturally based, the magnificent God that we serve as opposed and there's nothing wrong even with talking about in maybe a concert setting or whatever, about your relationship with God and what he has done in your life. That's great, but when it comes to worship, I do believe worshiping God and who he is in his truest form is what we're called to do.
Speaker 1:Well, guys, this has been a fantastic discussion. I hope it's helped young pastors, young worship leaders, and made us all think, too, about what we're singing in church and is it really lined with scripture, and I think this is just a good check in for all of us. And so thank you for being here and we hope you've enjoyed this episode of Quirks, bumps, bruises.
Speaker 3:Thanks for listening to the Quirks Bumps Bruises podcast with Candy and Melody. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment to subscribe, rate and share the podcast. You can learn more at joyfmorg.
