Embracing Change and Leading Through Uncertainty

Change can feel like the ground shifting beneath your feet, even when it's a promotion, a new opportunity, or a long-awaited next step. New leadership responsibilities, organizational change, caregiving, entrepreneurship, or a job market transformed by AI can all trigger the same instinct: work harder, push through, and put yourself last.

In this episode, we sit down with Ashwini Balasubramanian, Vice President of Research & Development for 3M's Transportation and Energy business and author of the forthcoming book Map Your Ascent: Embracing Change as Your Leadership Superpower. Moderated by VEST member Srijita Ghosh, the conversation explores how to transform uncertainty from something to fear into one of your greatest leadership advantages.

Ashwini explains why change feels so difficult, even for high performers, unpacking the fear of losing control, competence, and confidence. She shares practical frameworks for shifting your mindset from focusing on what you might lose to asking who you can become. Together, they explore her Map Your Ascent framework, including how your beliefs shape your leadership, why your perspective evolves through change, and how to cultivate a presence that inspires confidence even in uncertain moments.

The conversation also tackles one of the biggest challenges facing ambitious women today: distinguishing between perseverance and self-sacrifice.

 Ashwini shares the weekly reflection practice she uses to stay grounded, the "curiosity versus coasting" test that signals when it's time for a change, and practical strategies for navigating career transitions with intention. She also offers actionable advice on building sponsors, identifying transferable skills, creating an opportunity filter for major career decisions, and advocating for yourself in an increasingly uncertain world.

Whether you're navigating a career transition, leading through organizational change, considering your next big move, or simply trying to thrive through a demanding season without defaulting to depletion, this episode will leave you with practical tools and a renewed perspective on how change can become your greatest catalyst for growth.

For guests full bios and show notes click here. 

Transcript

Why Change Hits So Hard

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome back to the Vester Podcast. America Lucas, and in this episode, we're talking about something every one of us will face throughout our lives and careers. Change. There are seasons when life asks more of us, whether it's taking on a new leadership role, navigating organizational change, balancing growing responsibilities at work and at home, or facing an unexpected challenge. Even positive transitions can leave us feeling uncertain, stretched thin, or wondering if we're equipped for what's next. And too often, high-achieving women respond by simply working harder, pushing through, and putting themselves last. But what if uncertainty isn't something to survive? What if it's actually one of the greatest opportunities for growth? In this conversation, we're joined by Ashwini Balasu Brahmanyan, Vice President of Research and Development for 3N's transportation and energy business. Over the course of an impressive career spinning more than two decades, Ashwini has held leadership roles at companies including 3M, Harley Davidson, Toyota, and Bosch, earning several recognitions, including Automotive News Rising Star and the Engineering Alumni of the Year at the University of Michigan. Ashwini also serves as the president of the Automotive Women's Alliance Foundation and sits on the board of a privately held company. She's also the author of the forthcoming book Map Your Asset, Embracing Change as Your Leadership Superpower. Drawing on her own career leading transformation in fast-changing, traditionally male-dominated industries, the book offers practical strategies for embracing uncertainty, building resilience, and turning change into a catalyst for growth rather than a source of fear. This episode is thoughtfully moderated by VAS member Srijita Ghosh, whose own leadership in entrepreneurship and innovation helps guide a rich conversation on navigating uncertainty with intention. Together, they explore how to recognize the difference between perseverance and burnout, how to build confidence to pursue new opportunities, and develop sponsors throughout your career. They also cover practical frameworks for making values-driven decisions during times of transition. So whether you're contemplating your next career move, leading through change, or simply trying to navigate a demanding season without defaulting to depletion, this conversation offers thoughtful insights and actionable tools to help you lead with greater clarity, confidence, and purpose. For our guests full bios and show notes, go to www.vesther.co forward slash podcast. If you enjoy the episode, share with a friend and don't forget to leave us a review. And if you're ready to take your career or business to the next level, apply to join our community of women eager to help you get there and stay there. Go to www.vestur.co to learn more.

Meet Ashwini And The Big Idea

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Before we get started, I just have to share that uh, you know, in preparing for this discussion, uh, I did some digging around, researching uh to learn more about you, Ashwani. And uh, you know, not only was I uh just truly inspired and uh impressed, but honestly, I got a little emotional. There's uh you talk so authentically about your journey, your experiences, and uh there's just a lot that uh I personally related to as a first uh generation immigrant, as a woman, but I and I know that a lot of our vesties here uh will as well. Um so to get us started, uh exciting times. Your book is launching in September. Uh Ashwini's book is called Map Your Ascent, Embracing Change as Your Leadership Superpower. Um and I think it's it's a very timely topic. And uh so to get us started, Ashwini, can you share a little bit about um, you know, why do so many of us experience change uh as something to survive instead of something that we can grow to? And if you could also like draw in from your experiences that led to kind of shaping your perspective around this uh this philosophy.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah, thank you um first off for having me. Um morning, everybody. Um, I'm not sure if everyone's on the US time zone. I'm used to dealing with the global team, so we're always saying good morning, good afternoon, good evening. So if you're in any other parts of the world, uh different kinds of salutations your way. Um, thanks for joining today and thanks to Erica and team for having me. Um, like Shri Jita said, it's kind of awkward to sit through and listen to your own um introduction, but I'm taking my own advice and saying we need to embrace everything we've done because men, women are awesome, and we don't take enough credit for what we do. So that's the first step, right?

Fear Of Change And Control

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Um so coming back to your question, Shrijita. So your question was why do so many of us fear change? I think it stems from just that word fear, right? So the fear of loss of control, fear of loss of competence, feeling incompetent as you go through change. Um, and more importantly, fear of failure, right? We all are competent people. We know what we need to do, we have a core competency. Um, and as we go through change where we are not driving it and we haven't started it, it's something we receive. It can make you feel like you have no control over what's going on, right? So when you feel like you can't control the narrative, you can't control what's going on, you're at the receiving end. You have this fear of losing control, losing competence and feeling like you're gonna fail as you go through this change, right? Um, but I think the most important thing in terms of mindset as you look at change is to think about not what you might lose through the process, but what you can become, right? What does this change open up for you to become and evolve into? Because every change you go through actually changes you as a person, changes you as an asset in a company. So I think if we are able to kind of flip the mindset and the attitude towards change and say, don't worry about how you're going to survive. Think about how to thrive through change by looking forward to who you will become after you go through the change. Right. So I think if we are able to think about it that way, the fear of failure, the fear of um becoming incompetent, I think will fade away in the background because you're starting to look forward to what you evolve into. Um, it's it's not something you can do overnight. I think um I'm a big uh optimist, but I also have a big, huge sense of realism, always dosted in everything I do. So I think don't expect the switch to just flip overnight. It comes with practice, it comes with time. So give yourself grace as you go through change. There will be days where you're frustrated. It's okay to vent and express your frustration because once you name what's frustrating you, you'll know how to tackle it. So all of those I think are coping strategies as you go through change. And once you figure out how to cope, then you start to figure out how to harness it. So those are, I think, some initial thoughts to your question, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Yes, absolutely. Thank you. And, you know, uh you you mentioned about just the practice building that muscle. I'm a former athlete, so you know that that resonates a lot. And uh yeah, whether it's confidence or believing in ourselves, it's just doing it more and embracing it. So uh that kind of you know, uh follows on to um, you know, the next question is uh you have led some major transformation across multiple industries. And may I add, uh, being in the automotive industry, which is traditionally male dominated, I'm sure that, you know, uh as you walked into some rooms, they may not have seemed as familiar in the beginning. So uh that is uncertainty in a way, and I'm sure many, uh, many of us are facing it in different ways. So uh was there a defining moment along your journey where uh, you know, that change that flipped that script for you uh on how to perceive uncertainty.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah, it's a really important point to consider as you want to harness change. So I think when you think about um big inflection points, big changes in your life, um, if it doesn't make you feel uncomfortable, it's probably not a big enough change to fear in the first place, right? Um, we we as women go through change our entire life, right? Think about all the hormonal changes we have to adapt to and we have to go through. I don't know that there's any other species in the on the face of the earth that can manage all of that and still get their stuff done, right? So I think inherently we are posed to succeed as we go through change and thrive through change. But we forget that, right? Because we are humans and we're allowed to feel discomfort, we're allowed to feel fear. But for me, as I continue to seek out change as a young adult, um, I think the biggest realization for me was if you think about yourself as a professional, your expertise that you have, your core competency that you have might have a shelf life. It might have an expiration date because skills sometimes become obsolete. You know, expertise can become obsolete. But what will never become obsolete is your mindset and the attitude you carry, right? So I think it's really important to understand that difference. Because if your expertise has a shelf life and your mindset and your adaptability never has a shelf life, then leaning into that adaptability really, really hard becomes very important to thrive through change, right? So it doesn't matter which industry you're moving into, which kind of role you're moving into, if you can understand that uncertainty isn't really a signal that you're unprepared, it's actually evidence that you're growing and you start to view ambiguity as a leadership requirement, like saying if I'm going into a new role, if I'm going to be leading a new team, if I don't see any ambiguity, then I'm missing something, right? So once you start to kind of train your mind around that and you train your muscles to build that adaptability, you become more confident, navigating complexity, ambiguity, all of that stuff. So I really think it's about thinking you will always have transferable skill sets when you move from one role to another. Whether you're playing a professional change in role or even a personal change in role, right? Like when I went from being just a wife to a mom, I had no idea what kind of mom I was going to be. I still don't know. Sometimes I have my questions, right? I've been doing this for almost 19 years now. Um, but you have to trust that you will make mistakes, but you will learn from them. And that's how you grow through change. So I think knowing that and having that mindset, you will be less fearful of taking new roles on and start to really actively seek out change.

Adaptability Outlasts Any Skill

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Um and that's how the book is broken up too. So it's broken up into three Ps. So the first P is where I talk about personality, not in like a Myers-Briggs kind of way, but more in terms of what's your wiring like? What were your childhood experiences like? What were your belief systems that were instilled in you? And really sit down and think about what are the belief systems that served you well so far? What do you need to really disinherit so that you can continue to evolve? The second part of the book really talks about perspectives. Like if you are going to start seeking out change, know that your perspectives will evolve, allow them to evolve, because as you go through these changes, you become a different kind of asset and a very valuable asset where people will start seeking you out, right? And the third part of it is presence. So if you understand your personality, you leverage that and you leverage your perspectives, you can create presence in a way you would have never imagined you could if you stayed static in one place.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing uh, you know, that framework. And I really, really love, Ashwini, how you're you tie kind of the different facets because uh we all wear several hats, right? We we play several roles. And I just love that, you know, we're not ignoring that personality or how we were raised really does play a big uh role in how we show up as leaders. Um and you know, talking about belief systems, um uh, you know, with kind of the larger uh societal norms or others, no matter you grew up in India or America, I think women have always been kind of um, you know, put in their head that you you get it done till like you're exhausted, right? And and uh I saw on the description we had uh defaulting to uh depletion. So my question is, uh, you know, as women are often taught to keep pushing even when they're exhausted, how can we tell the difference when uh it's a season for uh perseverance versus when it might be a season to make a change or uh change the approach of how we're looking at things?

Perseverance Or Sacrifice

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yeah, yeah. It's a real important distinction because I think um most of the time, I don't think this is this might be even gender specific, but people that are high achievers, people that set high bar for themselves, right, irrespective of gender, um, really have trouble recognizing when to pull the plug and make a change, right? Um, because it feels like you're giving up on yourself, you're giving up on what you promised you would accomplish. Um, I think the key difference though is recognizing whether the season of change you're in is asking you to persevere or is it asking you to sacrifice? I think it's a key difference, right? So if it's asking you to persevere because there's a larger purpose involved, and you feel like with the perseverance and grip that you bring to the situation, when you come through the change and come out of the change, you can look back and say, darn, that was hard, but I'm so glad we went through it because now I can handle any challenge that comes in front of me. But on the flip side, if you don't feel like there's a larger purpose at play and you're just making sacrifices and depleting your energy, almost like a hamster in a wheel, right? Like you keep running, you're expending a lot of energy, but the wheel isn't going anywhere. It's just staying in the same place. So if you feel like you're just sacrificing and not really moving yourself forward, then you really need to think about is it truly time to pull the plug and do something else? I have actually done both. I have been in situations where I said, man, this is really hard, but I'm gonna get through this phase. But I've also been in situations where I said, I really need to pull the plug and move, right? So maybe I can substantiate that with some real life examples. So um when I was working for um a big car manufacturer, um, and I had my first child. Um I was the only female in the department. So navigating that alone was hard. Um, and the workload and the work pressure was immense, right? Um, but like I said, I didn't know how to recognize if I should pursue some other job because the work life integration, I wasn't able to really protect and preserve that, right? And then at some point, um I also realized I wanted to expand my family, have another child. And then we really had to have an honest open discussion with my husband. So, can we actually do this? Right? Can we actually accomplish this with everything that's going on? And at that point, I said, in this phase of my life, if I don't use this window of opportunity to have more kids, maybe I won't have the energy later on, right, to do it. So I had to make the choice of moving to a different company so that it allowed for more space, it allowed for more time to be with my kids, actually grow our family. And I didn't know it at that time. But my second child, my son, he came almost two and a half months early. He was a premi. And thank God I moved because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do full justice at home or full justice at work. Um, so that was an example of where I had to say, can't persevere through this. I gotta pull the plug and move. Um, on the flip side, when COVID happened, um, my in-laws and my parents lived with me all the time almost. So we have a very interesting household, three-generation household. Um, my father-in-law um succumbed to COVID. So he we were caring for him at home for about 10 months. And um, through that period, it was quite stressful because caregiver fatigue is real. Um, and it was quite stressful. But I remember telling my husband, like, I'm gonna go sign up for the Sustainability Excellence Associate certification. I remember him looking at me, he's like, we don't have enough going on. You want to do what now? So for me, I said, no, that will give me something to hold on to. I feel like my life is revolving around caregiving and then cooking, cleaning, and then just barely doing my job. I need a sense of purpose, right? So um, that was a season where I said, I see a bigger sense of purpose. I I'm very passionate about sustainability. If I keep that as a goalpost, it'll help me navigate through this emotionally strenuous phase. So, like I said, the key is to make the distinction between whether it's a season to persevere or a season where you're making sacrifices. I think that's the key difference.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

I really love that. And thank you for sharing those uh, you know, examples. Again, I really appreciate how you know you you tie in that, you know, our personal and our professional lives, yes, they're different, but they're intertwined in so many ways. And, you know, if our mental bandwidth is being our capacity is being taken up in one space, it is okay to give grace uh in another. Um, you know, one one of uh one of the moments in my life that define kind of like a changing moment is, you know, I traveled all across the world uh to the US to play tennis uh in college, and then a year and a half in, uh, they had to cut the whole program at no, you know, the circumstances were not in my hands. But that really led to the career in entrepreneurship and economic development, which again, looking back, I'm like, you know, being able to understand that, hey, it's okay, this is the chapter, and then where are we moving next? And I think a lot of our VEST members, you know, during our happy hours and conversations, we talk about uh, you know, how are we balancing? Or sometimes it's it's not hundred on each side. So I really appreciate you sharing that. Um so a follow-on to that, you know, uh what are some of the signs that you have learned to notice uh when you are getting to that point of depletion or perhaps before you're getting there, so that you can make that distinction perhaps at a at a good time.

Curiosity Versus Coasting Check-In

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Yeah. Um so this might be helpful to understand. So every week on Friday in the afternoon, um irrespective of what what how busy work is or what's going on, I have like a blocked 30-minute time for self-reflection. Like I will make that time to sit down and really think about how the week has gone. Um, what did I do really well? What did I not do so great? What do I need to improve going into the next week? Um, because I think in order to thrive and harness change effectively, you have to be a learner and a self-learner at that, right? Um, no one's gonna make time every week and say, Ashwini, come on, let's sit down and see how your week's gone. You have to do that yourself, right? So I think that's a good way to like sit down and say, how did this week go? Right. Um, and when I look at it, I look for signs of, am I still feeling curious about my job? Like I think that's a big thing for me. Am I still excited about my job? Do I feel like I'm growing? Am I contributing? I'm making impact, or am I just cruising along and coasting, right? So if I can make that distinction between whether I'm curious versus whether I'm coasting, um I can tell whether it's time to like really expand and do more in the current world, or is it a season of change? I need to go seek out. So if I feel like I'm coasting and just cruising along, um I get bored very easily with monotony. So I usually know if I'm just cruising along, it's time to go seek out something else. Um, and that's been kind of the distinction for me between the two. It's like where do I need to continue and when do I need to change in terms of my own attitude, right? Um, as to how I see my work, my impact. Um and am I just kind of balancing my energy and not really feeling curious and feeling happy and fulfilled at work. Challenged too. Like I want to be challenged. I want to be able to overcome the challenges. I kind of, it's hard to describe, but I kind of get a high from going through challenges and overcoming them, right? So if I'm not doing that, it'll start to feel very monotonous and very boring for me. So that's a key point I look for almost every week as I reflect on it, on the journey that week.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Curiosity versus coasting. I think I'm gonna put that put that on a sticky note on my computer because that's a really good uh kind of you know framework to be able to understand that, hey, is this still bringing me joy or am I just going along for the ride? Um we are kind of at our halfway point. So Vesties, I would say if you have questions, we'll we'll have designated time at the end, but feel free to put it in the chat and we can try to incorporate. Um Ashwini, one of the things that, you know, I was listening to a podcast that you spoke at uh recently. And um and along along those lines, you were you were talking about, you know, when you moved into the automotive industry, it was not necessarily, if I understand correctly, was not necessarily something that you were seeking out. It uh kind of uh came to you, uh similar with the with the book. So uh I think best members would really enjoy hearing some of the stories if you don't mind sharing and uh what were some of kind of the key takeaways from um either of those experiences.

The Harley Davidson Leap

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah, yeah. I think maybe the most interesting story would be um when I got approached to join Harley Davidson. Um we are all on um Zoom, so you're not seeing me. I'm barely five feet tall. Um, so uh I was working for a company called Martin Rea. I was the global director for um corporate strategy, market intelligence, and sustainability at that role. Um, and I got a phone call from a recruiter saying, Hey, um I'm so and so, I'm recruiting for this group chief engineer role at Harley Davidson. Um, please call me back at this number. And I remember listening to the voice and I was like, What? Me, Harley Davidson? Can't be. Like, I don't fit any of that mold at all. Like, I'm not white, I'm not male, I don't have a beard, I'm not muscular. Um, this must be some sort of prank, right? So I actually didn't call the recruiter back. And then they followed up with another email. Um, and I'm like, oh, maybe this is true and this is real. So I talked to my boss at that time, um, who's continues to be a great mentor for me, and I said, What do you think? And he's like, Are you crazy? You get a call from Harley, you take the call and have the conversation. Always have the conversation. What you decide to do with it is a completely your choice, but never say no to a conversation. Um, because I also truly believe this that you might not do anything with the conversation. But what is most important is building relationships that come out of conversations like that, right? So I went ahead, had the conversation with the recruiter, and then I met the leadership team there. Um, and I realized the hesitation I had was just my own bias, right? At the end of the day, if you peel back behind the curtain, Harley Davidson is an iconic company, um, awesome culture, you know, very unique culture, loyal employees, loyal customers. But at the end of the day, they're a product development company that wants to engineer great products that delights their customers, which is kind of universal, right? That's why all the businesses exist. So once I understood that key change, um, I said, I want this role. I want to do this. This is gonna be fun, right? But I remember when I joined um the company, they said, we've never had a group chief or a general manager that was female in our 120 years of Harley Davidson's history. But I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna think about that. That's way too much pressure. So if you're doing something as the first, as a trailblazer, um, I would say don't think about it at all because it can be unnecessary pressure that slows you down, that holds you back, because you feel like you can't afford to fail, you can't afford to make a mistake. Um, so I said, I'm not gonna think about that. And I'm not gonna worry about any of the naysayers because there will be. There will be people that question why someone like you is in this sort of company, in this sort of role. Um, and believe it or not, people have walked up to me and said that to my face sometimes, right? Um, but my only response is I have to be a kick-ass engineer that knows how to do product development. And I'm doing just that, right? So at one point, I think it's with age, with experience, and with maturity, you understand you can't stop all the naysayers. You just got to keep doing your kick-ass job, and the results will eventually speak for themselves, right? So um that's maybe one of many stories, but it's one of my favorite from my own career.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

I love that. I and and you know, I love that you have that conviction of yes, I'm not gonna let that pressure overwhelm me or, you know, again, have that fear of failure. But at the same time, I'm confident and I have that conviction that I am doing a good job, no matter, you know, uh what people say. So I really think that's a that's a great takeaway. Um, I think leading on to that, Erica posed a question that I think it's it's pretty timely to uh, you know, we were going to jump into the next bucket of like, you know, how how can the best leaders um not just navigate but kind of thrive under change? So uh the question is, how would you coach West members or listeners that are actively seeking that change, that opportunity in this uncertain labor market that is rapidly changing with automation, uh AI, fast technology, and uh significantly impacting uh woman held roles?

A Plan For Career Change Now

SPEAKER_01 28:05

I I think whenever you want to seek out change, I think the first thing you have to do is pat yourself on the back because that's the first step, right? That you are bold enough, you're courageous enough to seek out change. You've done the hardest step of them all is to seek out change, right? The rest of it is understanding and breaking it down like a problem statement, right? Um, I think the hardest step is to actually make that courageous move to seek out change. Because most of the time, taking that first step is probably the hardest because you are afraid, you're fearful something's gonna happen. But at once you've taken that step to seek out change, then like I said, you have to look at it very objectively, look at it like a problem statement, say, what is it I want to accomplish? And what are the roadblocks in my way? What are the advantages I have because of the strengths and the skills and the competencies I bring? So it's almost like a pro and con kind of analysis. Um this might sound very nerdy, but it actually works, right? Because you write things down, um, you name what's causing you to feel hesitant, what's causing you to feel fearful. You name those things and you write things down. You can actually do something about it. You can take steps. So the other piece is you might not be able to overcome every disadvantage or every roadblock you've listed on your own. And that you need to recognize going in. So being able to lean on your community, on your tribe, on your support network is another key thing, right? So every time I've, I think the last 12 or maybe 14 years now, um, I left behind the role where I had my core competency about 14 years ago, right? Ever since all the roles I have either sought out or have come my way have been where 50% of the role, I actually don't have any experience at all. Right. Like when I moved to Harley Davidson, I'm not a rider. I've never worked on motorcycles. Um, but I had to tell myself I have strong people management skills, I have strong organizational skills, problem solving skills, my engineering foundational, um, out strong. And I've worked on four wheelers, right? So four wheelers minus two wheels, yeah, dynamics are a little different, but the physics is still the same, right? So if I can understand that, so I had to literally write it down, and I talk about this in my book. Sorry. I write it down so that I can make a plan of how I'm gonna overcome it. Where do I need to seek out experts to get mentoring and advice? And it's okay to say I don't know, because one that helps you recognize where you need to lean on others to build um expertise. And two, it humbles you too, right? Like it says, yeah, I'm not walking in to this to make an impression with anybody. I'm walking in to make impact. So if I can name what I don't know, I can go fix those gaps by leaning on the experts around me. So I think it's really important to understand um to make that distinguished um difference between wanting to impress people when you're new in a role or taking on a new venture versus how are you going to create impact? That change and mindset was crucial for me because I stopped worrying about um what someone thought of me because I asked this question or what someone would think of me because I'm proposing this idea. So it started changing the way I approached any new role. So if you're seeking, like I said, if you're seeking out change and if you already made that first step, I would say try to break down the problem statement very objectively so you can make a plan around it. Because once you feel like you have a plan, you will feel like you're back in control. Right. And you know what you need to learn and you'll start to look forward to the things you will learn as you go through the change. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 32:15

That makes a that makes a lot of sense. You know, uh again, Vesties put in your comments, questions. But one of the things that reminded me, Ashwini, is I I work with founders and a lot of times they're early stage, they're so they're still figuring out how to um understand their market, understand their customers. And one of the things I've noticed is you know, sometimes they'll shy away from noting down the risks or the competition that's available that's out there, right? And uh, you know, my guidance is always that no, write down like if you think there's 10 risks, think about maybe if there's the 11th one. That does not make uh, you know, your business week or you week, that just makes you alert to um be ready for whatever there's to come. So uh absolutely, and thank you for using those examples. Something that you mentioned about, you know, leaning on uh trusted people, on experts, on

Sponsorship, Mentors, And Self-Advocacy

SPEAKER_03 33:05

mentors. Uh, one of the things that we talk a lot about in VEST, and I actually learned from this group is uh sponsorship versus mentorship. Uh, you know, mentors provide advice, uh, sponsors are actively advocating for you. And uh from your story as well, I mean, what an amazing boss to say that, yeah, take that call. That, you know, that takes a great leader and that takes a very secure leader to say that. So uh can you share a little bit about what has sponsorship uh uh played in your what role has it played in your life and how can a woman actively kind of seek uh more trusted uh sponsors in their career growth?

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah, um absolutely. I I would say I think the distinguished definition between um sponsorship and mentorship has been widely talked about, right? Like mentors are people that help you understand the complexity of a problem, probably can suggest um possible solutions. Sponsors actually go a step above that and will advocate for you when you're not in the room. That's the clear distinction between the two. Now, having said that, I know there's a lot of talk about, you know, find a sponsor, that's how you can accelerate your career, but we have to admit it is really darn hard to do, right? Because you have absolutely no control over who becomes a sponsor and when they become a sponsor, right? Um, it's really hard to control. So I think the first step towards landing a sponsor is making sure you have enough mentors. Because usually that's how you find sponsors, is some of your mentors could change into sponsors. Um and the distinction comes from, I think there are a lot of mentors that will give you, how to say this respectfully, captain obvious advice, right? Like it's like, oh, kind of already knew that, but thank you for your time, right? But then there are people that will actually give you actionable feedback. They'll show you this stuff that you need to hear that traditionally you won't hear. So I'll give you an example. When I sought out a role in one of my early people leadership roles, um, I was like, I'm kicking buttons. I've role, you know, I have good visibility, I'm gonna get considered. And I actually thought I was gonna land the job. So it was very humbling when they told me I didn't even get considered to be in the candidate pool. So you can imagine my disappointment, right? I'm like, what the hell? What did I do wrong? So I went to the hiring manager and I said, Hey, can you give me 10 minutes of your time? Can I just want to understand why I wasn't even part of the candidate pool? And he looked at me and he said, You do an amazing job at your current role. But you don't have, you haven't displayed that you understand the business. You haven't displayed you have the business acumen. So this role really needs to lean on that skill set. And you don't have that today. Right. And I'm sitting back and thinking, man, that's really harsh, but that's really good, actionable feedback. I can do something with it. So I turned around and I said, now that you said that, can you coach me on how to build business case? How do you um build that acumen? Right. So he was actually generous enough to give me 45 minutes every month to open up business cases and teach me what are all the different aspects. And he would actually give me homework to say, go tweak this by this much. And then, you know, come back and tell me which levers are having the biggest impact on the ROI, on the bottom line. So it started feeling like a leadership lab where I was building new skills. Um so I think the the biggest takeaway for me from that is identify, learn to identify who is actually interested in your progression versus who's just talking to you so they can feel better about spending time with somebody, right? It's it's important to understand that. And if you have those people that are truly interested in your progression, they will give you actionable feedback. And those are the people that usually will turn sponsors. Um, and I will say in my 23-year career, I have probably had two or maybe three sponsors. That's it. I've had a lot of mentors who I'm very incredibly grateful to. Um, but two or three sponsors. The other important thing to remember is the biggest sponsor and the biggest advocate, the most reliable one that you will ever have is yourself. So if you can't find a sponsor, not to worry, right? You have to advocate for yourself, find ways to put yourself out there. There might be times where people say, What? What do you want to do next? I'm not sure that really adds up. It's like, okay, next door. So keep moving, right? So um I think it's important to understand both, like understand who external sponsors can be, and also remember that you are your biggest sponsor as well.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Oh, I don't know if you could see my head just vigorously nodding, but yes, like absolutely, you know, we we want to have that village, we want to have those allies and uh sponsors, but if we can't advocate for ourselves, uh they probably can do as good of a job because we are not speaking up for ourselves. So I absolutely love that. And just again to kind of summarize, I really like you know, the conviction and Ashwin you have to balance between yes, let's ask for help, yes, let's ask questions we don't understand, but also kind of have that internal compass of uh having that confidence in your ability and your competence. So really appreciate that. Um, I had a question, you know, prepared around like um boundaries and understanding. And I think that really connects with uh Tiffany's question here

Values And The Opportunity Filter

SPEAKER_03 38:56

in the chat. So I'll read it out. Um, how do you all navigate opportunities with potential clients that may not fully align with your personal values? Do you value the experience more than the client? And is this something that you take into consideration before taking the next steps? Um, so you know, again, looking at boundaries or like looking at um just value alignment, how do you approach uh something like that?

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Yeah, um, so obviously you all are incredibly brave because some of you and are entrepreneurs. I've never had the courage to go do that. Um forging my um career in different places, but I think um one of the things I've learned over time is to really understand what your non-negotiables are, right? Um, so I talk about this quite a bit in my book. I call it the opportunity filter, right? So I say if you have an opportunity that's coming your way, um, how do you create a sustainable, consistent filter to run the opportunities through so that you can make a standalone assessment of that opportunity? Don't worry about where you are today, right? So there are three non-negotiables for me that I have learned over time. The first 10 years I couldn't articulate this. But after that, because I was starting to seek out change, I needed a method to my madness. So the three non-negotiables for me are does the opportunity bring the ability to expand my skill set? Does the opportunity provide career expansion either today or in the future? Does the opportunity help me preserve my work-life integration? And for me to say yes to an opportunity, at least two of those three have to be checked yes. If that doesn't happen, I have said no to opportunities, even though they might have looked great on paper. So I'll give you an example. Um about maybe 10 years ago, I was approached with a role where I had to go build um a tech center in India for a company I was working for here in the US. Um, and that role um was almost two levels, two grades higher than where I was at that time. Um, and it would give me great visibility, great exposure. Um and I but the biggest caveat was it came with almost 65 to 70 percent of travel. Right. Um, so again, running through the opportunity filter. Um I knew I would expand my skill set, right? Um, because I had never done anything like that before. But I didn't feel like it had a clear path to a progression because it felt like I was I would act like the head of an engineering services company, which there are many that can replace that sort of skill set. So it didn't feel like a skill set expansion to me. And three, it definitely did not preserve my work-life integration. My kids were much smaller at that time and younger, and they needed my attention. So I said, okay, two of the three, not working out. And I had to unfortunately decline the offer. Um, now looking back, I feel like if I had taken that route at that time, just thinking, oh my God, it's two levels up, it's a good promotion, more money, um, I think I would have regretted it because my trajectory would have gone a different direction than uh else. So I what I'm trying to say is my opportunity filter will not be the same as yours because your non-negotiables might look very different, right? So mine are skill set expansion, career advancement, and work-life integration. Yours might be completely different. Um, and I like to keep it to three because otherwise it becomes very overwhelming. So create your own opportunity filter and run your opportunities through that independent of where you are, right? Because where you are are probably where you're most comfortable. So the opportunity filter will help you make sense of does this really help me achieve what I want to achieve? Or is this just a shiny object that's been dangled in front of me right now?

SPEAKER_03 43:13

The method to the madness. There, there's always one with you know high achievers. And I am so glad that you know you're open to sharing that. Um, and that kind of leads to, you know, a really good question that Siria posed.

Writing The Book And Rapid Fire

SPEAKER_03 43:25

And then after this, we'll open it up. So feel free to uh unmute yourself. And then as a closing Ashvini, after we're done with QA, I'll ask you some rapid fire questions. Kind of like a hot take. Uh so Sira's question is what made you decide you were ready to write this book? How do you gain the confidence to take on roles you may not feel 100% qualified for? Great question.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Yeah, yeah. So specifically to the book, um, honestly, I didn't plan on being an author. Um, I think people are gonna get tired of me saying this, but it's it is true. I was, it wasn't on my plan. Um, so I got approached. By a nonprofit called Society of Automotive Engineers. They're a consortium, industry consortium. So they approached me last summer saying, Hey, would you mind collaborating with us to write a book on motorcycles? Because I was at Harley at that time. I'm looking like, no, I'm not the expert. I've been there barely four years. I'm not the right person to write it, but I can go get to you people that will be great at this. And then they said, wait a minute, you also have a very interesting career journey. And would you like to write about that? And I'm like, huh. I hadn't thought of that and I don't know how. So they basically coached me and said, here's how you write a book proposal. Think about what you want the book to do. Um, write down the outline, what the chapters might be. So I took two weeks to put all of that together and I gave it to them. They came back and said, we'd really love to work with you, but unfortunately, our new CEO is shutting down our publishing arm. I'm like, oh, okay. Well, it wasn't like I planned on being an author. There goes that, right? And they said, no, no, no, hang on. We're going to refer you to a few publishers because we do think the book has a lot of valuable content that should be shared. So they referred me to a few publishers. I interviewed with them. And then finally narrowed down to Greenleaf Publishing, who's my partner in crime here. But I think again, the key was to say sometimes you don't think you're ready, but the environment around you will validate that your voice is important. What you have to say is important before even you think you're ready. And when that happens, it's important to recognize that and take a leap of faith and move forward. Right. I, like I said, I wasn't planning on being an author, but I've enjoyed this process so much because you come you go through your life journey and sometimes you have experiences that you compartmentalize, lock them up, and put them in some corner of your brain. But I've had to like unlock a lot of those memories. Um but I think it feels so fulfilling to be able to share some of my methods to the madness, as you called it, Shrijita, but also be able to say change is something that looks hard on the surface. But if we can build some method to the madness, we can really harness it and we can really map our assumption, right? So um I think that was the original question. I'm not sure if I digressed, but it looks like I answered it. So if there's a follow-up uh to that, I'm happy to answer that as well.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Yes, thank you. Absolutely. Uh you absolutely answered it. And um, yes, uh uh Vest members, this is this is your chance. Feel free to unmute and ask a question, or even if you have a thought, feel free to share.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

I'll I'll ask a fun question. Um, so from everything I'm hearing, I feel like you've done so many impressive things. Do you ever sit and take a moment to give yourself a pat in the back? And what do you do to like tell yourself that okay, I am doing well, and this is uh like like how do you like tell yourself that this is I'm at a good place and reassure yourself?

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Um, that's one of the things I continue to work on. Um because I think um it's it's it's hard for me to become content with status quo. So I'm always thinking about like what can I do next, what can I do more? But I also, as part of writing this book, right, um, I think I've come to appreciate how far I have come. Um and if when you if if you folks choose to read the book, you'll see I started out my schooling in a very, very rural village in India where they didn't have a lot of resources. I was the first student to be registered at the school there. Um, you know, I couldn't possibly speak a sentence of English with all the words strung together. Um, so for me to have started in a place like that and to have come as far as I have come, um, I think it's a combination of um grit, dreaming big, not giving up, but also a lot of support system and people um being kind and gracious with me around me, and also a little bit of right place at the right time, right? So I think it's a mix of many factors. Um, so I'm not one to sit back and say, man, I am awesome. You know, I'm not the one to say that openly, but I do think I'm competent. I do think I can do much more than what I'm doing today. I constantly feel that way. And I feel like my best is yet to come. I always feel that way, right? My best is yet to come. Um, and I always have a lot of gratitude for how far I have come. And especially writing this book has really unlocked that for me.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Well, Ashwini, I think we'll say it for you. You are awesome. I have learned so much from this conversation, and it's really been enjoyable. So, speaking of fun questions, we'll we'll do a quick rapid fire around. Uh, feel free to answer in a word or a sentence. Um, so the first one is one leadership myth that you wish we would stop believing.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

I think it's the myth that says the leaders must have all the answers. If you have all the answers, then you don't have the right team, or you're not approaching your leadership in the right way. You shouldn't have all the answers, right? Um, that's I think the biggest myth I've had to unlearn a lot.

SPEAKER_03 49:48

Like Michelle said, you know, Michelle Obama said, once you get in the rooms, then you realize that, oh, you know, I I can I can do this too. Um, the second question is what is a book that has changed how you lead, besides your own, of course, which we are all very excited to read.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

I think for me, one of my all-time favorites is The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek. Um, I think the reason I really resonated with that book is at work at a lot of different places, like even in sports, of course, there's always winning and losing, right? There's lessons to learn from there. But I think in business especially, um, his central concept around there's really no winning or losing. The biggest thing is to get to play that infinite game, like keep playing it, right? Like be part of the business enterprise, be able to provide um livelihood to people, be able to provide um products that people love and want to buy. Just being in that situation, I think, is a privilege. So that central concept really resonates with me. So I have a lot of trouble when people say at work, let's play to win. And I'm like, you're winning, what? I'm not sure. After that, what do you want to do? Right. So I think I want to chase success rather than win. Um, and I think they're very two different terms. Um, success, I think, is um achieved in phases, and you go after a different meaning of success in different phases of your life. Um, with winning, I feel like you sit and maybe revel in the winning a little too much and lose the momentum to do the next big thing. So um that's why that book resonates a lot with me.

SPEAKER_03 51:32

Love that. Um, and then I I really like this question. It is Al, what is one piece of advice that women should ignore?

SPEAKER_01 51:41

You know, we have a lot of women leaders, especially some that I really, really adore and respect, that always says, like, women can't have it all. I'm like, what are we talking about? Like, what do you mean women can't have it all? Like, are we using that to entice more women to go after leadership roles or are we doing the opposite? Um, and here's why I'm saying we shouldn't take that advice or shouldn't take give any weightage to that statement. It's not just women. Nobody can have it all at the same time. Like if you are at work and you're focusing on work, you're not focusing on prepping meals for dinner at home. Right? You're taking that time away from your exercise. So I think it's really about your attention than managing your calendar. I think it's really important to understand that, especially as you continue to rise through the ranks, your calendar, you can feel like you're a very busy and important person if your calendar is very booked and busy. But really, what are you giving attention to, right? Becomes really, really important. And if we understand how to prioritize the things that matter to us and how do we give our attention to the things that matter to us, we can have it all. Maybe not at the same moment, but women can have it all. I think we should absolutely ignore that statement.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

I love it. And uh your comment reminded me of the last P of your uh framework, the presence is now where we are, is uh fully

Regain Clarity With Two Lists

SPEAKER_03 53:12

where we are. So in closing, Ashwini, uh, can you share with us, you know, if if there's uh a vast number of women who's perhaps feeling uh overwhelmed by change and uncertainty today, what is one small step we might be able to take this week to regain a sense of clarity and uh momentum?

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Um, as you can tell, I'm a big reflection person, right? So I would say take 15 minutes and write down and make two lists, right, um, of things that are overwhelming you, but things you can control and things that are out of your control and really introspect and think about where are you spending your time? You will find out mostly, mostly that you try to spend a lot of your attention, your energy on things you can't control because they seem like the things that are the hardest, right? Because when you think something takes more time and they're hard, you want to tackle that first, usually. But I think you will gain a lot more traction by actually focusing on the first list of what you can control. And you'll be surprised by how much you can control. Because if you focus on the how much you can control list and start checking off stuff, and I'm a little old-fashioned that way, I love checking the lists off, like it makes me feel accomplished and good. Um, but as you continue to make progress through that, you will find that a lot of the things you thought were out of your control are starting to become better as well automatically. Because the things that are out of your control, you can't impact anyone directly. You can't influence how things are going. If you're in an organization and they're making some organizational changes where you weren't part of the decision, you just hand it down. There's nothing you can do there anyway. The decision's been made, right? So you need to recognize whether you're part of the decision to where the train's going, or has the train already left the station, right? So if the train's already left the station, figure out your commute plan to either get on the train or find a different train, right? So you really, I think writing stuff down and really tackling them like problem statements can be super helpful. Um, so that you can feel like, again, you're back in control, right? Because that's the biggest fear of change is like the lack of control, the lack of certainty, and the lack of not knowing where things are going to land.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

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