The All-Axis Podcast

Navigating the Future of Manufacturing: Insights from Industry Experts

• Michael Thiessen, Tom Skubala, Tony Gunn

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Capturing the true innovation driving modern manufacturing requires moving beyond traditional marketing to showcase real machine shop stories, cutting-edge technology, and digital transformation in action.

In this episode,, host Michael Thiessen welcomes Tom Skubala and Tony Gunn from MTDCNC for an engaging discussion on content creation and storytelling across the machining industry. Drawing on their extensive media experience covering manufacturing facilities across North America and Europe, Tom and Tony share how dynamic digital content, video journalism, and authentic shop-floor stories elevate machine tool builders, software developers, and precision machine shops. Together, they discuss emerging manufacturing technology trends, the power of community in engineering, and how technical storytelling inspires the next generation of industrial workforce talent.

Whether you are a manufacturing marketer, shop owner, or technology advocate, this episode provides actionable ideas for sharing your brand's technical story with a global audience.

In this episode: 
00:00 - Introduction: The Power of Media & Storytelling in Manufacturing 
04:45 - Inside MTDCNC: Documenting the Shop Floor Across the Globe 
11:30 - Bridging the Gap Between Technical Software & Real-World Machining
18:50 - Key Technology Trends: Automation, CAD/CAM Integration & Connectivity
26:15 - Using Media to Attract and Inspire Next-Gen Manufacturing Talent 
34:40 - How Precision Machine Shops Can Build Authentic Digital Brands

Learn more about MTDCNC.

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Speaker - Voiceover

Welcome to the All Axis podcast from the Experts and Tebis. Each episode we'll talk about technology topics, trends, or solutions that manufacturers need to know in today's rapidly evolving times. Now, sit back, enjoy the discussion and let us know what you think.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Hello, my manufacturing friends. Welcome. This is the All Axis Podcast. I am your host, Michael Thiessen, and we're coming to you during a very hot and steamy summer. Well, but we're in an air conditioned room and everything is hunky-dory over here. And I'm extremely excited for this particular podcast. Actually, I've been waiting for this podcast for almost a over a year to have these two individuals on this on the show here because it it takes so long to break through and to make sure that we have carved out an hour of our time and make sure that all of our schedules kind of coincide so that we can come to you in today's episode. So this is like I said, I'm I'm extremely excited to have these two individuals on. One person uh I've met uh it was almost two years ago, I think it was uh in during the April time we met in uh in Europe and uh we had a lovely time filming over there, um our open house, and so we have this individual on. He is one of the prominent individuals from the MTD CNC group over in the UK. Yes, he is our British friend uh uh from uh from over there, but nevertheless, he is extremely knowledgeable, he has been an and a huge powerhouse in terms of talking about manufacturing and and talking what's uh what is dear to his heart as which is manufacturing as a as a whole. And uh so we have uh Tom Skubala on from MTD CNC. Um he has been uh a huge presenter of the manufacturing industry, he helps businesses and navigates best practices. Uh he is really committed in helping you, the customer, and uh the operations and the overall operations, making sure that you're more efficient and have every potential unlocked on your CNC. So I'm extremely excited to have him on the podcast. And then of course, I'm gonna put him last because otherwise his head just gets too big. Because we have Tony Gunn on this particular podcast too. I can see Tom already going, yeah, but no, we got Tony Gunn on. And if you if you've not been on YouTube or on any of the videos video sites, you must have run into Tony Gunn with MTDCNC over here in the US. And uh he's actually broadcasting from all over the country all the time, looking at uh and and highlighting your companies and what you do and what you do best and what you stand for. And I'm extremely thrilled to have him on this particular podcast to give his insight and know-how and knowledge of what the he has experienced and what Tom has experienced in the two different or in all the different uh continents that they have been on. I think uh Tony has been on in over 80 uh countries that he has visited, he has a successful podcast that he's operating. He has he is just a huge mega uh personality, or I should say um celebrity, I should say, man. Um by this time I'm gonna take uh take my bows and leave because I cannot I cannot stand to be with these two people because they're just so huge. So but nevertheless, I'm gonna stick around because these two gentlemen, they're extremely important to the industry. Tom, Tony, welcome to the All Axis Podcast.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Thank you, Michael.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

I know you're stunned right now. You don't have any words to say. I get it, I totally understand.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Well, I can't walk through the door anymore. But I was looking at Tom. Tom's trying not to laugh. I'm heads getting swollen up. I mean, thank thank you for the introduction. That was incredible.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

I tell you what, halfway through that introduction, I couldn't see anything behind Tony. It was just all head. His webcam was just full of Tony's head. But that was the nicest introduction I've ever had. So thank you very much for that.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Well, normally you don't get introductions like this because normally you guys are introducing the individuals that are there, and you may highlight these hugely successful companies, no matter where you go. So, of course, you don't go, you don't guys get the accreditation that you deserve. You're like the Mike Rowe to the CNC operations and the manufacturing. So kudos to both of you guys of highlighting and putting such a magnifying glass on the manufacturing industry that I love so much. So thank you both to you, both of you.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Yeah, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. It's all look, I think you and I have seen Tom about the same amount of time frame, actually. So it's a it's a pleasure for me to see and talk to Tom. Last time I saw him, I think was emo almost two years ago. And uh, and that was awesome. So thank you for putting this together so we can all talk to each other.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Uh, it it was I I gotta give all credit to my assistant Christine of putting everything together here. I know we've been going back and forth, and Tom, it was since the last time we saw each other at uh the open house at Tebis, uh, where we both said, Hey, we need to do we need to get together on this podcast. And then Tony and I ran into each other at uh one of the exhibitions, and uh we had uh some lovely conversations over here, and we also said, Hey, you need to come on this podcast. And it became really difficult to get all schedules aligned because you two guys are so successful, and people flock to you guys like magnets because they see the benefit of what you guys are doing. Tony, what was the last location that you've been at? Where was this on the in the world?

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Oh, that's a good question. It's tough to even remember, honestly, because it's it's it is that crazy, and it bounces from place to place to place. The most recent one I was in Mexico for Tecma. Um and uh whenever this gets released, I'm sure that will actually change. But let's just say Q1, Q2, it's been uh Mexico a few times, Brazil a couple of times, um, Taiwan, India, Germany, uh, Switzerland, all over the US. And and I think Tom can actually relate to this as well because he's been running all over Europe as well as the UK. And and uh, you know, we we're gonna get into some topics today that I think are very important, and one of those is is tariffs and what has the tariffs done, and and we'll get into that more later, but I I've heard a lot of I've heard a lot of uh breath holding. I guess I'm not sure if you can hear breath holding, but it's like it's like that every time the question comes up, right? What have the tariffs done to you? Oh my gosh, right? And and despite what the current climate is and a lot of opinions that are being thrown out, which we'll get into a little bit later, MTD CNC, uh, we're all over the place. We're still doing everything we can to create this awareness. And so while I can certainly talk about all the different places I've been to, the company's successes, the trade shows, uh, the excitement, the joy, uh you know, Tom's Tom's running around like a madman, too.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Tom, you can see something now.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Hold on, hold on. I'm not done yet.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

I'm not done yet.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

I'm just waiting for more, I'm just waiting for you two to take a breath to try and jump in. Um, but yeah, Tony's right. Um, like you said, we I've got some things on the tariffs for a little bit later on, but we are everywhere. Um, obviously everybody knows Lindsay, and Lindsay is just she she's she's trying to catch Tony, I think, on countries at the moment. Um, but yeah, like Tony says, I'm I'm darting around all over the place, um, but mostly to the UK. Um I am up and down this country. My car is is my car's never got a full tank of fuel in it. It's constantly out, and some of the things we're getting to see, and these are more for topic again later on. Some of the some of the places I visit now are just breathtaking. And and what people have embraced because everything's we've had hard times recently. So, how people have embraced technology to get through them is just been eye-opening. Because I was one of them guys, I obviously I came from the shop floor, and I was a typical machinist, came out the shop floor, I know everything, I know how to do everything, joined MTD and realized I knew nothing. So it's every day, even now, so I've been at MTD just over three years now, and even now, every job I go on, I'm learning something new, and it is absolutely brilliant.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Yeah, I want to follow up on that real quick, Mike, if that's all right, and just say, Tom, 100% agree with you. 100%. I keep telling people we don't know what we don't know, and that's why the channel is so very important to watch. Because when I stepped out of the machine shop and did the same thing, I was like, holy crap, I know about half a percent of what I need to know of everything that's going on. And this this journey of international consulting and being on the media side of things has truly opened my eyes and ears and and gratitude to what the world actually offers for everything that we make. And Tom, you're exactly right. I mean, you were a machine shop, I was in a machine shop, we were both machinists, and and I knew everything. I mean, I I knew the back the machine shop like the back of my hand, but I stepped out I was in three major machine shops and stepped out of that machine shop into a broader world, and I was like, Well, I don't know anything. Good to know. Awesome, time to start over.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

To the to the both of you, what was the most exciting episode that you guys put to light and put on film that before you walked into, you thought you knew something, and you walked out of it at the end of the episode and were completely at this wow factor. What was the most exciting episode that still sticks in the back of your mind? Tom, why don't you start off and see what you got?

Speaker - Tom Skubala

It's two that sticks in my mind. The first time I visited Citizen, it was the first time I'd ever seen a sliding head machine, and it was the first supplier I'd been to who did that sort of technology, and that just the speed, the accuracy, what you can do on one of them things was just I walked out thinking, how do you program this? How do you how do you work it? How do you not just end up with a big tangled mess of material? Um, and then the other one that really stick to my mind, and it was only last year, which is really good, it was only last year, was I finally got to visit the DMG Mori's open house in Thompson. I was a kid in a sweet shop. I turned up with Paul, and Paul was trying to talk to me, and I just I could not concentrate on anything Paul was saying to me. My eyes were everywhere, and there was there was moments I was getting, and I can guarantee Tony's being in the existing situation where you have a cameraman shouting at you to be somewhere and do it, and you just want to be anywhere else. I was literally, I was I got my heading machine, I was picking things up, and they're like the whole the whole point of the day was where is from. We need Tom on set, where is from? And I've got my head in one machine. I'm talking to somebody else about some so much technology under one roof. Now we do open houses, but I've never been to an open house on that scale, and the people you meet as well. So obviously, I don't do as much travel as Tony does, but from the events we do, we meet people like you, Michael. And you go to one of these open houses, and there's people just coming up to you and talking to you, and you're like, I'm sure I know you from somewhere. And then you're wracking your brain trying to figure out where I know you from. And it's it's honestly, it was yeah, they're they're definitely the two that stick in my mind that have really blown me away.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

I can tell you this when you met me a couple years ago, I was probably in your worst nightmare. So let's just say it, leave it there. What about you, Tony? What's in your mind from some of the technologies you saw?

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Oh, uh, I'm gonna answer this in just a second, but Tom, you gave me an idea now for the next time you get like a kid in a candy store, you said a sweet shop. We're gonna need a where is Tom, like a where is Waldo? So you're gonna need a striped shirt, and we're gonna have to create a skin out of that. Where the hell is Tom? Where the hell is Waldo? You know? We can do it at another. A striped shirt. I want to see you on a striped shirt one of those days.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

And didn't he have one of those hats with a big ball on top of it the Waldo had? Yeah.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

He did. I'll bring it back to it. We'll do it's okay. I'll order it off of Amazon and I'll bring it to you.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Tony, you what if he wears this? I want to see a picture.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

That's our job is to take pictures, and that's all Tom and I do. So you know, you know you're gonna see photos and videos, and we'll probably go live even of where is Tom. I know, Tony, you bring the outfit, I'll do the live. That seems it seems like you reversed that on me. Well done. Very well done. Because you know I'll do it. Yeah, exactly. Um, all right, let me answer this question in in a multifaceted way because as always, I'm gonna talk too much. I'm gonna the first one I'm gonna say is just is it's gonna pull on my heartstrings because it was important to me, and not everyone agrees with what was being done, but for me, I found a lot of respect in it. And it was um actually our friend Joe Amos was over here with me, Tom, one of our camera guys, one of our amazing camera guys. And uh we actually broke ground at the largest prison in Kentucky. Um, they a robot actually put a shovel in the ground and uh and broke ground for the first CNC machine shop with automation in the whole of Kentucky, and I think the whole first one in the country. Um I know some other work has been done with CNC work, but in this situation, it was unique in the way it was being done with automation, robotics companies came together. What we filmed was um it brought me to tears. It was people that were incarcerated for upwards of 15 years that that got a job in CNC machinings and and shared their story. Um, it was people, it was the warden. Uh I interviewed the governor, flew in, actually on a helicopter flew in and joined us on camera. And it was one of those really meaningful ones that could change a lot of lives. And that was important to me. Now, it wasn't about technology, it wasn't about what I had seen, it was it was just something that meant a lot to me and and personal connection. Yeah, it was it mattered to me. I've had growing up, I wasn't the nicest kid. I've had a lot of friends in jail, and no well, we we that's a that's a story for a different day, uh, unless you want to dive into it. But but yes, um, as a teenager, I've seen a lot of people come and go. Um, one of my best friends was killed at a young age, and uh, and so that was that was important to me. When we get to the technology side of things, it's really difficult to name one. I gotta be honest. I mean, going through Japan and being uh in a front row seat and filming at your Nakamura's, your Matt Surge, your DMG Mori's, um, your Yasdas for crying out loud, um, you know, these companies, uh, Kinamura, don't let me leave that one out. Then going through through Europe, going through Germany and seeing, you know, Index and RegoFix and Micron Tool and Zersh and Exeron. I mean, everywhere I go, there's something really amazing to see. Jumping over to Taiwan with uh with the JTEC group and seeing the Whalys and the Takisawa and then YCM as well with their own foundry. I love a foundry. Going through India and seeing Ace Micromatic, making their own grassroots uh components at their own foundry for the last decade. It's just all of this truly, truly excites me. And so factories are often one of my favorite places to be because you see the birth, creation, investment, the tools, the years that are put into all of it. But as far as an end user, I had the great experience to go with Moting Machine over to Spirit Aero Systems. And Spirit Aero Systems is the largest tier one aerospace company in the entire world. And it was really cool to see the the core and the shell of these giant planes that I fly in every freaking day being developed and then put onto a train to slide out of the building and be taken on to their next destination.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

So it's it's amazing. All this new technology and this technology that is out there, it is so exciting to be uh be involved in in this manufacturing sector and and seeing all the new technology. So but but looking at the different manufacturing operations and looking at the different countries that we're that you tour. I mean, Tom, you're over and UK and doing Europe, and Tom, you're doing most of the US and Japan and Taiwan and Mexico and and and I I forgot all the countries that you just mentioned. But is there is there a difference in the way how they're operating and the manufacturing? Or is there a lot of similarities between the different countries and the way how they operate and the way how they produce and the ideas and everything else? And what I'm going towards is the labor force. I mean, we have over here this this big issue in trying to find these experts and we're trying to uncover stones and rocks to find these individuals that are that are gonna be active in the next next 20, 30 years. Is there a lot of similarities in the manufacturing sector between the different countries, or is there a lot of similarities? Tony, why don't you start us off?

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Oh, here we go. Tom, I hope you remember the question by the time we get to you. We might get my pillow. We might have to re-ass the question. Yeah, get get that pillow. Because I love this question. I really do, Michael. It's one of my favorite questions because um it it's uniquely prescribed to people like Tom and I. Not everyone gets to travel the world, not everyone, not everyone gets to leave their country. Here in the US, we have a big country, not everyone gets to leave their state. And when I was a machinist, I barely got to leave my machine shop. So I love this question because it is unique to all of our own perspectives and what we've seen. And I have a broader, let's say, perspective than a lot of folks based on traveling to, I would say somewhere between 40 and 50 for manufacturing alone and somewhere above 80 at this point if you include uh manufacturing plus personal, right? You wouldn't think of place like uh Japan, for example, or you're gonna you're in Germany, so you'll probably immediately disagree with what I'm about to say, but as a global perspective, you wouldn't think of place like Japan or Germany, Switzerland, these folks from a domestic perspective would say that we need help because you have an amazing apprenticeship program. We engineering is highly rated in these places and developed and maintained, but everywhere I go where people think they're doing a great job, you hear I need help. That is almost synonymous globally. The only few places I've found that that's not true is places like India, where you have a billion and a half people and they're doing an amazing job creating awareness. The government has funded manufacturing. Some of the Asian Pacific countries, while they could definitely use a better uh, let's say, skills or management or know-how, the labor itself is accessible. So if you're able to press a button or do some of the lot of the labor work, there's no issue there. It's more about the management side of things. I went down to Brazil recently and uh I had an interview with a young man who's in charge of an education system called Sinai. Sinai has 2.8 million students in it. 2.8 million.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Wow.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

2.8 million, and what they do is really unique, and I'm gonna probably mess some of this up. And I'm actually headed back in November to do one-on-ones with the teachers, the students, and the people in charge for an entire week in partnership with uh RegoFix. And we're gonna do five different schools throughout the San Paulo area, and I'm gonna learn more about how this is done and hopefully bring some of this information back to the US to see if we can apply some of it here. But as far as my understanding goes, it's 2.8 million students. A lot of these folks are low-end to middle class folks that come into the school system. The top 10% of those students get to move on to programming and aerospace and medical and some of the more difficult positions as they so if you're your first year, if you're in the top 15, 10, 20%, somewhere in that range, you move on to the next piece. But if you're in that 80%, you immediately go into the work as a button pusher, as a main, and you can learn along the way, but you don't immediately go into that next level of education. 2.8 million people to bring this all together and to give Tom a turn and give him a moment to wake up and pull his pillow off his head, the whole world is different. The whole world is different, but I would say as a majority common ground, if you think of the top 10 to 50, let's say top 10 to 12 manufacturing countries in the world, if you remove India from that top 10 to 12, everyone's looking for help and everyone's trying to figure out how to make manufacturing the forefront and understand that it's the backbone of every economy.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Tom, I'll give you two seconds because Tony.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Ask Tom the next question first, please.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

Yeah, what's the next one? No, to to go on from what Tony was saying, and the thing is, we all know Tony's a a global traveler. So I I cannot answer it anywhere near what Tony can. So I'd like to actually bring it back in house and even talk about just the UK. If you go to the top of Scotland or to the bottom of Wales. It's different. Even in the same country, things are happening different. But like Tony was saying, everybody, everybody just wants a bit of help. Everybody needs a bit of help. But we are seeing slower. People taking on more technology. People are people are finally asking for help. Because I think and and a lot of people will relate to this where even three years ago when I was on the shop floor, you did it in-house. And if you couldn't do it in-house, you found out how to do it in-house. It was it was more there was more people were like sitting on their pride or oh, I'm not gonna ask for help because it makes me we we will find a way of doing it. Where now I think it's come a time where the the older generation and the skills, we are starting to lose that. So people do need help. And it's even even when you go to Europe, it's it's the same. Everybody's in the same boat, apart from like Tony was saying, India and things like that. But everybody's in the same boat. The older generation who has have the skills is leaving. The new generation doesn't. You guys will be the same as me. I've got one little tiny story, nowhere near to the extent of Tony don't mean. Um where I'd only been MTD, I think a year, maybe, maybe a little bit longer. And I was walking down a machine shop, and as I was walking down this machine shop, I was with one of our cameras, and I'm saying, that spindle's too high, that cuts too much, you're feeding wrong, using the wrong tool, you're doing this, you're doing that. And the cameraman looked at me and just went, How do you know that? And it was like, by listening. By listening to a machine, I can tell you exactly what's wrong with everyone. But yet you've got people now who've been working in the machine shop for five, ten years who still can't do that.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Yeah.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

So, and it was what's good though, I have found, and I just want to take this on to technology a little bit, is something our friend Mr. Paul Scally was talking to me about the other day. People now are taking on technology to help with them problems. So he was telling me about the Tebis software and how you can get a seasoned engineer to program the Tebis software, and then you have an apprentice come in who then programs the part exactly the same as a seasoned professional because the software is there. And it's it's to me, it's taking longer than it should for people to adopt the software and trust the software, but we get in there slowly. And I think that's the problem at the moment. It's we're very slow, and I I don't I think this is a an industry problem across the board. You guys may agree or disagree, but we are slow to react to problems globally, and I think that's where everybody just needs a little push to get.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

I think, Tom, this had a has a lot to do with pride because a lot of these a lot of the baby boomers that are currently going to be going into retirement. I'm not talking the generation that Tony is in. I mean he's he's still fairly young. Um, but they had this passion, they had this raw, powerful passion in order to make things work, and that's how they gained how they gained access to all of this knowledge over time. And of course, there is this pride of uh I have created this knowledge. Now, as soon as they want to leave and go to the golf courses and want to do all those kind of things that they do in retirement, they don't think ahead and and seeing how can I pass this information down to the younger generation because it it it doesn't potentially cross their mind, maybe. And then the younger generation comes in thinking they know everything, and then realize that there is still a lot to learn from a lot of these old timers. Like you said, listening to the machine and seeing what it does, listening to the chatter and how how the machine runs. You cannot teach that in an environment, you gotta experience it.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

I do think as well, there was there used to be not anymore. Well, not that I see anymore. There was another problem when I first started machining where the older guys, the baby boomers, like you said, didn't want to teach the younger generation because they didn't want them to take their jobs and didn't want them to take their money.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Yeah.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

Now I don't know if that was I don't know if that was a problem globally, but it was it was definitely a problem over here where they were like, if you were the only person who could run that machine, or you were the only person who could do that job, then you were paid more to do that. So you didn't want to share that knowledge in case you were then took off that.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

I think this is slowly changing though. I think I see a lot more of the older generations really taking care of it because they realize without when they're no longer in this business, the younger generation needs to follow through. And and you mentioned, Tony, that you're heading, I think, to Sao Paulo again in November and uh uh taping this this entire week episode. What do you think? I mean, you've seen in the US the US manufacturers are really uh aching for experienced labor and experienced young young individuals. Unfortunately, we took machine shop out of the the university not university but high schools already early on, so we don't have that we we don't build that passion in these young individuals anymore that that they had way back when. But what do you see that worked in some of those countries? And you you mentioned that maybe you want to you can bring those ideas back to the US and and implement that maybe here because when I grew up in Germany way back when, when I was a young lad, they have this awesome apprenticeship program. And uh when I'm hearing through my colleagues in Germany too that it has dried out, that well has dried out, there's not as many people flocking to this industry anymore. How can we revive it? And how can you put light to it so that people can realize what they need to do?

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Yeah, this conversation, it could be the entire podcast, honestly, Michael. Between you, Tom, and myself, it's it's like an onion. Because every time you pull back one answer, there's 12 more questions that need to be answered. And and so, firstly, let me just agree with you and Tom and say ego and fear will be the death of our industry. If we don't let go of our ego, and if we're stop, if if we don't stop being afraid of change, it's gonna be we'll be any machine shop's gonna be done. Let's just let's just let go of that first of all and start to embrace the idea of something new and that we might be able to teach others and we might be able to learn from others. I think that's very important to understand. Um, what I'm gonna learn, I guess we'll find out. What I can bring back, I guess we'll find out. Some of the conversations that are happening here in the US, Michael, and you and you uh you've you've hung out with us Americans long enough to see some of this, is is we had uh a generation that loved manufacturing. And and then there was a decision that was made that we wanted cheaper products and we wanted everything to be made at cheaper prices, and we shipped it all over sh overseas. In doing that, we created a um an upset group of people, let's say, who had really great jobs and a lot of them lost their jobs. And those people then had kids, and those people are never gonna teach their kids to go into manufacturing based on what they went through because they lost all their jobs, regardless of how good it might be right now. So we have a movement currently that says, let's create awareness. Well, this is where we get into the onion. What do we do? Is it social media? Is it do we give in symposiums at schools? In my opinion, one of the best things that we can do is get some of our best speakers together, supported by our largest and most important, I guess they're all important, so don't let me say that, but all of our associations that are willing to get together and support a movement. We get our best, most well-spoken two or three, four people, we send them around the country and we have them speak at middle schools and high schools, but not just to the students. You bring their parents in. You bring their parents in because if that student goes home excited in sixth grade and says, I want to make stuff, their parents gonna go, you're going to university. And we have to convey the message that the ROI on going to trades over a work, over a span of a career is actually better than the average career coming out of a university, that you can immediately start making money, that these are the backbone of the economy. All of this is very important for the decision makers of the household to children to understand so that they not only accept it, but embrace it and promote it, so that when they get excited about making things, they'll say, yes, go make a car and a plane and a satellite and everything around us that helps them move the world move. These this is the passion that needs to go into it, or else we'll remain stagnant. As Tom mentioned, you know, and you mentioned, slow to move. We are slow to adapt and make change, and if it sticks that way, as we are one of the slowest to do so because we're tried and true and we've made things and it's always worked that way, we will get stuck in a problem, and that will be an issue.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

And isn't that you've just one thing you just said there, Serena, isn't that the worst saying you can hear in manufacturing? We all we'll we all say it. Always done it that way. You you will hear that so many times, and it is the it is the worst quote you can hear in a machine shop because it means you're running on outdated views and technology if you've always done it that way.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

No, you're both of you are uh 100% right, and uh we're losing this beautiful word and this beautiful operation called trade, uh, or learning a trade that we that we all learned. I mean, I worked in a machine shop, both of you guys worked in machine shops, we got our hands dirty, and and the most important feeling for an individual is succeeding and making this job with your hands and then later on telling your kids I did this, I made this. That is a feeling that you cannot manufacture, that you can't get. It is just one of those things that I personally am missing right now because I'm on the software side of things. But before that, I was working on the cars, making the parts that are in there. Now I can only say, Hey, I provided the product that made this rocket that went up in the air and went boom. I mean, and that's essentially what I'm doing now. But the the thing that amazes me every single day is how quickly we have changed our world right now because I'm considering ourselves in the next industrial revolution because of this entire encroachment of AI, all this artificial intelligence, because we know, Tom, there is no real intelligence in our heads. I'm including myself here, Tom. So it's not just you, only Tony is smart here. But this artificial intelligence, do you think that this will take over some of those gaps that we're missing in terms of that we don't have enough labor or workers in there that AI will take over?

Speaker - Tom Skubala

Obviously, I'll go before Tony gets going. Um now we know we know AI is starting to show up in more places than people realize now. There's AI in in CAD/CAM now, which people don't know of. There's there's ways to make things easier. So CAD programming, spindle monitoring, even visual inspection can now be done by AI. And if you want to go even further, supply chain forecasting is now done by AI. It's being used to help reduce scrap, shorten set up times, even recommend optimal tooling strategies. It's it's the problem is with AI, and and I I know for a fact you two will have heard this, is that AI will replace people, but it's not. If you if you go to any machine shop and talk to them, AI is actually empowering them. Oh, yeah, because it's it's it's helping them not do the little jobs, the the jobs that take the time out of them actually machining something, out of them making something. Or you you've got AI now to help all the materials do quoting all them office jobs, which people don't really want to be doing, they want to be on the shop floor, they want to be making things, they want to be helping customers. AI is here to say it's not going anywhere. And I think people need to people need to not be scared of it and embrace it and and use it to its full advantage. Now, I heard a really good quote the other day on um well it wasn't the other day, actually, it was quite a while ago now. There's a real good quote off uh LinkedIn, I can't even remember who wrote it, but it was it was talking about the skills gap, saying the skills gap isn't something we need to close, it's something we need to build a bridge over. So we need to find other the skill we're never gonna we're never ever gonna close that skills gap. We're not gonna do it. It it it is what it is, but we need to find ways around it, and AI can be a tool to help you get round it and become more productive. Yeah, totally agree. Which is which is what all anybody wants to be. People want to be more productive and make more money, and that is the bottom line. So if AI can help you do that, why wouldn't you use it?

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Agreed. Tony, what's your thought?

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Yeah, I'm gonna I I agree with everything Tom said and and his viewpoints on where AI is being used. I'm gonna take a step backward before taking a step forward and go back to that we're slow to adapt concept again. Can it do everything that Tom just described and that we know Tebis can do and the other softwares? And and uh I mean, I I've worked with a lot of machine monitoring companies who are adopting it. I mean, every just about everything can utilize AI and certainly moving forward will. But I I go back to the idea of we have we call them the the silver haired generation at the moment, which some people say boomers, the ones that are retiring soon, right? You imagine that the majority of of that group are machine shop owners. The majority of that group, and somebody will probably fight me in the comments when they hear this podcast, are slow to adapt. So are the owners who have the money that are willing, are they willing to invest in the technology that allows them to build a bridge over a skills gap or a labor shortage since we can't reduce it? Or are they gonna stick to what they know until they retire and let the next generation figure it out when they're ready to own something? I have seen some incredible shops that are owned by mid-20-year-olds that have adopted all of this. They're running 15 machines with two or three people, and everything is AI and automated. However, as a majority rule, we still have this situation that we've got to solve, and I don't know the answer to that. So the big broad answer is yes, AI helps. It absolutely helps. The immediate answer of will it be adapted? We'll find out. And I think we need to, and I think I think it's a brilliant opportunity to to do more with less, to make more money, create more profitability, efficiency, effectiveness, all these hashtags that we utilize regularly, but that that's the conversation for me is how do we convey a message that this is a necessity and not just a want?

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Yeah. I mean AI and not a five, right, and not a fad for sure. I totally agree with you. Uh I think AI is the most important item if it is utilized correctly in our lifetime and what we're doing. Yes, it was highlighted early on in the uh what is it, the 80s with Terminator and all those kind of things, but I'm not gonna go there. I'm not I'm gonna stay away from that. But I think AI has uh already been doing so much in the CAD/CAM business and and and my business that we're in, there's a lot of uh utilization of that already that you don't even realize that it's doing this. And uh even in the machine, some of our clients they are working with AI and CNC machines in order to produce a faster part in utilizing this AI concept. And I think it's a great tool. Yeah, heck, even AI makes me look good in pictures. I mean, there's a lot to that, but it it's an it's an important item that I think a lot of companies should embrace, should utilize it. But the other thing that we've taught uh touched on quite a bit is what you, Tony, brought up earlier, this entire nasty business of tariffs. We just had uh uh a business of uh talking to one of the experts, actually several experts on these tariffs, which were uh empowering and lightning, and uh it's it's not as scary sometimes as it seems. But give me your take because you're seeing the manufacturing uh throughout the world. Uh obviously, how do these tariffs do you do you feel that these tariffs are gonna be for a long term there, or is it just gonna be a short-term decision-making kind of thing in order to bring everybody to the table? What can we expect from your expectations or your view, your viewpoint that you're seeing?

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Let me first start this off by saying I am not an expert on this subject whatsoever. Um, I don't watch the news. Well, I admit when I'm not for sure. I am happy to admit when I don't know it's not, but I know the results of the case. Can I get a quote if you be done? Can I get a quote you can do?

Speaker - Tom Skubala

Just no, just not long click of I am not an expert. I've been brilliant.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

I would have my ring makeup wrap for you um and I'll put a book around it about that.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

I think that's important to understand. I see the results of the tariffs, but I don't watch the news. I for me to ever try to predict what what that that our our president's currently up to, I would never have an idea because it changes from one day to the next and I I don't pretend to know. Are there conversations that are frustrating for people? Are people holding off on purchases? Are people concerned about their bottom lines? Are there all of this is yes. Everywhere I go, people are hesitating to make machine sales or adapt new technologies or what whatever whatever questions that they have are currently not being answered. And I think where I sit, because I don't pretend to know, is where a lot of people sit. There's a lot of hopeful people, there's a lot of people that pretend to know. But I think most of us don't actually know. We just know how much jobs are coming in, how many jobs are leaving, what is being told on the news, and a whole lot of experts telling us things that aren't coming true. So so I don't know.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

The the beautiful thing that I've seen already being in the CAD/CAM business and being close to win to the manufacturing here in Detroit, uh as well as in Canada, I've seen a lot of the business come back. There are a lot of the mold shops that we're dealing with, uh as well as die shops, they're extremely busy right now. A lot of the work came in. Um when I talk to my Canadian counterparts that are over on the other side of the fence here, they're not as fortunate right now. They've got other troubles that are going on uh on there right now that is uh maybe beyond their control or whatever that is. But uh one of the things that I've seen is, and I don't know if it's attributed to some of the tariff talks or if it's just some of the changeover. And I see a lot of companies moving towards the aerospace side of things because they're so frustrated with the automotive portion of it because it's this constant up and down that they're allowed to the aerospace. In in the UK, how is it uh operating there? What's going on there with this entire talk of how is how's business, labor, tariffs, all that kind of stuff in the UK?

Speaker - Tom Skubala

Now the problem is the tariffs remain unpredictable. We just we don't know what's happening from day to day. Well while over here they haven't dramatically reshaped most operations day to day, I think it's the uncertainty that's creating or making long-term planning more difficult. Because people don't know what's around the corner, they can't plan for it. Which, like Tony was saying, people are then not buying that new machine, not buying that new piece of software because they just don't know. But I think that the main the main problem right now is steel. Yeah, yeah. Steel pricing and availability at the moment, that seems to be a common pain point. Companies are close to monitoring it, but it is what it is. Rising steel cars, various variable supplies are hitting many industries hard. Job shops and contractors can't now take a hit on the seals, which then means they're having to charge more for the work compared to bigger companies who can take that hit. So then these smaller shops are really getting hit hard by these things. So it's a challenge, and it's it seems to be forcing a lot of your smaller shops to be more creative. Right. There's a lot I I've never seen it before, but recently on LinkedIn, I've seen companies actually asking other companies if they have steel, they can buy. So instead of going to the supplier, they're they're you'll see a post on LinkedIn. Does anybody have any stainless steel 316 at 50 mil be 50 mil? Now, I've never seen that, but that's people are being more creative, they're trying to find things cheaper.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

And then Yeah, let me check my garage for it to see if I can find one.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

Yeah, well, that's it. But you actually mentioned some uh uh something a minute ago, Michael, of your mold shops are now busy. Now, because Europe seems to be getting hit harder than we are, then we actually might become better off for it because people are gonna come to us. European manufacturers are struggling under stricter energy costs, slower economic recovery. So globally, OEMs are actually looking towards the UK and North America as a ra reliable alternative for production and partnership. Where there is the problem of uncertainty and um unpredictability, there also might become some positives from it that people who were sending work away now turn around and bring it back.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

One of the things that I will guarantee you, Tom, uh I agree with you that there are some positives that come out of this. And uh especially when I look at and and I put a lot of emphasis onto the aerospace industry for the last uh Five to ten years of putting a lot of effort in there. I'm now part of a aerospace task force uh with with Tebis uh and putting uh more emphasis on this because I I think there is a lot of work out there for the aerospace. Boeing don't uh I mean this has been a statement that I've heard over and over again. There's not enough machine shops in the US in order for when Boeing comes out with a new airplane to produce all of those parts that have to go on there. There's not, period. So there's so much work out there in the aerospace industry that uh it's it's one of those things where we need to get on the on board with it and have companies diversify. There's nothing wrong with diversifying because if one industry goes down, the other one takes up the slack, and companies consistently have that uh that cushion to fall back on when it comes to manufacturing. So I think aerospace, especially Europe, when I look at some of the forecasts when it comes to the aerospace manufacturing and production in Europe, you will see that that will increase or has started already to increase in in countries like Portugal, in countries like Germany, in the UK as well. So there's a lot more manufacturing happening when it comes to the aerospace production, especially overseas too. Uh and uh hopefully that will continue.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

Now I actually have a question for for you two guys. Oh now I would like to join Tony on saying I'm no expert at this. I honestly just get through day to day. I do not watch the news because it's so gear mongering. But the one thing I do seem to find at the moment, if you again if you look on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on Facebook, or the machine shops we visit, is we seem to have two different sides here where you'll visit one machine shop who, like you said, will have more work than they can deal with, and they are but they're keeping it in house, they're doing it. Um but then on the opposite side, you'll have machine shops where you've got your top five access machines sweeping the floor. There doesn't seem to be at the moment, and that's what I'm I'm and this is my question to you guys is if if you are seeing the same, but I don't seem to see the machine shops that have enough work, just have enough work to to to pass by. It's either all or nothing.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

If I can answer that first because before Tony takes the next half hour to explain his position on this, come on, guys. No, but this is this is uh a reason for these associations like AMBA or some of these other ones, when I look at some of these members from these associations, they bind together and they help each other out. And I've seen that more often than than anything else, that they help each other out in order to make sure that all of them have the ability to survive and on top of it meet the milestones of the OEM afterwards. Tony, you're a half an hour.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

I'll try to keep it short. That's a good answer, actually. And that's what associations are for, Mike. That's it's a really good answer. Um, the I've heard the rumors, Tom. Same like you described, actually. But you you know, our job uh with MTDCNC our job is to go into places and highlight success. So a lot of the people who are opening their doors to us are gonna be the ones that are winning right now. And you're right, there's a lot of folks who have more work than they can handle almost. I mean, it's certainly not going down. If anything, it's it's going up. And they're they're they're and going back to the conversation of do the tariffs affect investments, yes, and people, but people are thriving off of the current technology. But we see a lot of it with people who are certified in the things to help them work on DOD and aerospace and medical and these types of certifications that place them apart, the ones who made investments and precision machines that allow them to get products done inside of one machine instead of five machines with shorter lead times and you know, all of this stuff that goes into it being able to have a quality CMM room, being able to communicate information to potential clients through machine monitoring and say, hey, we know for a fact your job's gonna be done two days ahead of time or two days late, but we know exactly where it is. Communication is key. The rumors are that it is exactly as you described here, Tom. It is some people are have their five access machinists and programmers are sweeping floors. I would I would make the discussion, although I haven't been inside of it, but I've spoken with a ton of people like Eva Growth Systems, who is a consulting company. As Michael just said, a lot of these associations, we have one of them on our sleeve, the NTMA, um, largest precision manufacturing association in the country. We talk with the the AMT people on our other sleeve who is IMTS. That's that's what those associations are for. And actually, this is a great conversation for anyone who's listening right now who is struggling in their machine shop and not a part of an association, join one. That's this is this is the time where people come together and share their ups and their downs so that everyone can succeed. So get into an association and and uh NTMA is about to have engaged, go be a part of that. These are important things to understand. PMPA, I love those folks as well. I could name drop all of them if I wanted to. I don't think we have time, but uh Michael, great point, Tom. I see the same thing you do. We're only going into the ones that are thriving, but I've definitely heard the rumors of where there's not being success right now.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Right. You know what? I I could go on and on and on with you with both of you. We need to do this more often, gents. I mean, this is phenomenal getting you two guys together, having this uh this back and forth and seeing the different countries, and and and this is beautiful having you, uh Tom in the UK sitting there in your shed with your 3D printer going on like crazy, and Tom is displaying all of his uh gadgets and gizmos behind him and books and things and whatnot. Uh I I mean this is this is fun. This is what people need to realize that there's a lot of fun in manufacturing, there's a lot of pride in manufacturing, and we need to get the young generation have that same pride that we have when it comes to this manufacturing. This is the reason why we're doing this podcast to to shine light on some of those things that are that you don't usually hear because a lot of our manufacturers are stuck in their four walls and they manufacture their parts from day day morning till daylight, and they don't see the additional things that are going on, and that's why we're doing this. So, any last thoughts, Tom? I'm gonna say you first, because the last thoughts that Tony has are very to the point and are just genius. Sure, thank you. Well, I put that nicely.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

You did. It's been yeah, it's it's it's been really good. I I've really enjoyed it. It's just great to hear from from you guys, and it's it's it is great to hear that the problems we're having isn't just UK-based, it's it's world ride, and and we need a a global solution. And yes, as you can see, I have the printers running in the background just because I wanted to go back and make something. I was uh I couldn't really fit a C N C machine in here, so this is the uh the best net the next best thing, and so I think education is a massive thing to educate people on every single thing you see, you touch, you do is being manufactured.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Absolutely.

Speaker - Tom Skubala

And I think podcasts like this that will show and tell people are brilliant. So, Michael, thank you to you for for allowing me on here.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Tony, any any last thoughts from you?

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Yeah, of course, you know me. Um firstly, uh let me say thank you. Thank you for the warm introduction, thank you for the conversation, thank you for uh allowing me to hang out with a colleague that I never get to see as well. Uh, I think you've seen him more recently than me. Thank you for the questions. Um, for anyone who's listening right now, uh I think in summary, it it's to let go of the ego, let go of fear, embrace technology. We're all going through something similar. Join your association if you need to. Um I think we're all headed in the right direction. I see a very, very bright light. I see a lot of good coming from this. Uh, Tom mentioned uh steel being sold on on LinkedIn. What we always have been forever is resilient. Manufacturing has always been a resilient people that will figure it out. We always have, we always will. Even if we have to fight to do it, we're gonna make it happen. But if things can be easier, if we can invest in AI, pay attention to AI, talk with the younger folks within our machine shop to help us understand what we don't know as we've gotten older and they grew up born with a phone and an iPad in their hands. Things like this help us grow quicker and be a part of the future of manufacturing and not just the past or the love of manufacturing, but what it can become. So, for everyone listening, thank you for listening. Um, and and I hope that some of this resonates with you. Obviously, it won't all resonate, but but we're all in this together. And if you have any questions for for Tom, myself, or Michael, reach out anytime. We're never too busy, although it took us a year and a half to get this podcast together. We're never too busy to to to spend a little time with you and and answer some of the questions you might have. As both Tom and I mentioned, we didn't know anything when we stepped out of our machine shops. We knew what we knew, and that was it. There's a million other people out there going through the same thing, and we're here for you. If you if you find us valuable, we're here for you.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

Awesome. Tom, Tony, both of you, a huge thank you from a humble person over here that listens to you guys and tries to find you wherever you are, if that's through your podcast, through your videos, through your conversations and talks. I thank you both for what you're doing in the industry and how you're highlighting our manufacturing uh uh operations and uh making it interesting and fun for uh for our our technology. And since Tony Gunn and Tom Skubala are a major voice in the manufacturing world using his expertise in engaging communication style to connect and inform people about this vital industry. Thank you to the both of you.

Speaker - Tony Gunn

Thank you.

Speaker - Michael Thiessen

With that said, I can't frame it any better than what Tony has already said. Uh the manufacturing industry is a thriving and interesting and exciting uh industry to be in. Get involved if you have a shop and you're not part of an association, get associated. There are a lot of friends out there that want to help you, that can help you. Look at all the different technologies that are there. There might be a machine that you haven't even heard before, heard of before. Look at them, what they're doing, and uh just get involved in this particular industry. If you're a youngster, this is the industry for you. You can build something with your hands, get involved, have fun, and we'll see you on the other side. If you have any ideas, any thoughts, send them to us. Thank you so much for tuning in into this uh for this episode on the All Axis podcast. We hope you found the discussion insightful, fun at times, and of course valuable. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. Feel free to share your episode within your network. And for updates, look us up on Instagram and LinkedIn. Until next time, keep shaping the future of manufacturing. Thank you so much. See you next time.

Speaker - Voiceover

Thank you for joining this episode of All Axis. Please leave a comment or review with your feedback or what you'd like to hear in future episodes. To learn more about manufacturing technology solutions and Tebis's capabilities, visit our website at Tebis. That's T E B I S dot com.

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Michael Thiessen

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