Read and Write with Natasha
This podcast discusses writing life, reviews books, and interviews authors and industry professionals.
Read and Write with Natasha
Executive Coach Antonia Bowring on Writing and Overcoming ADHD
Renowned executive coach Antonia Bowring joins us to reveal how coaching has evolved in the digital age, especially amidst the challenges brought on by COVID-19.
This shift has increased the acceptance and accessibility of coaching across regions like Africa and the Middle East.
Through her book "Coach Yourself: Increase Awareness, Change Behavior, and Thrive," Antonia empowers listeners to harness their own potential with the right mindset and resilience.
We address skepticism in the coaching industry, underscoring the importance of certifications like those from the International Coaching Federation to maintain quality standards.
Our conversation takes a turn as we explore the intricacies of ADHD, particularly in adults. Antonia shares her experiences of managing ADHD while writing her book and actively discussing the condition on platforms like TikTok.
Antonia also reflected on her journey and weighed the pros and cons of traditional versus self-publishing.
Her candid insights are vital for aspiring authors and those navigating the challenges of ADHD.
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COVID changed the world for coaching. My personal opinion would be for the good, because all of a sudden it became acceptable practice. I coach people in Africa. I coach people in the Middle East. I coach people on the West Coast. Before that wasn't sort of accepted practice in the Middle East, I coach people on the West Coast. Before that wasn't sort of accepted practice in the same way, or it was seen as less than.
Speaker 2:Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha podcast. My name is Natasha Tynes and I'm an author and a journalist. In this channel I talk about the writing life, review books and interview authors. Hope you enjoy the journey. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. We have with us today Antonia Baring, who's a highly credentialed top New York executive coach. She's a frequent speaker to companies and groups on topics ranging from mindfulness, adhd in the workplace and communications best practices ADHD in the Workplace and Communications Best Practices. Her latest book, coach Yourself Become the Best Version of Yourself, using Practical Frameworks, shares insights and expertise, offering readers an opportunity to unlock their full communication potential. So, antonia, thank you for joining me today. So excited to have you today and talk about communication, since this is something I'm familiar with, since this is my background. And so first, antonia, I want to talk about your book Coach Yourself. Yeah, so are you saying we don't need coaches anymore, we can just coach ourselves? So let's hear about your book. Sure.
Speaker 1:And I also just want to say I'm really happy to be here, I'm really happy to talk about the book and writing in general, and also I love that you said her latest book. It's actually my first book, but it won't be my last, that's for sure. Exactly so thank you Exactly.
Speaker 2:That was intentional, by the way. Thank, you.
Speaker 1:I like that, I like that Words matter, right, of course. And do we need coaches? Well, that is a yes, no, maybe, answer. So, yes, I think there will always be a place for coaches, real people, I think, increasingly, we are seeing a lot of it go online and I have. We can talk about that in more detail. I think there's some definite pros to that. And can you coach yourself? Yes, absolutely. What you need to coach yourself is a learning mindset that you have to show up with. That, yeah, and you need a certain amount of resilience, because it's harder without a kind of built in accountability system of another person, correct. And thirdly, you need some good resources, like my book, to help you on that journey. So I'd say you know this is not scientific I'd say you can get 70, 75% of the way there If you have the learning mindset and the resilience, without a human coach. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So I personally hired a coach, I hired the business coach and it was really amazing for me. Hired a coach, I hired a business coach and it was really amazing for me and I believe in the power of coaches. But I hate lots of skepticism about coaching, especially online coaches, right? So some people say, like anyone can be a coach, you don't need any certification, and people like pop up on online I see I'm a fitness coach, I'm a wellness coach, and is that good or bad? Do you need a degree? Are people overusing the definition of a coach? What do you think? If you want to respond to the skeptics?
Speaker 1:Yeah, great, great, great and thoughtful and provocative question. So let me take that in pieces. First of all, I completely agree that one of the big challenges of this industry because it is a multi-billion dollar industry now is the very low bar to enter. The very low barrier to entry right there there isn't one. You can say you're a coach, I do say I'm a coach, but there's nothing stopping anyone from saying I'm a coach and so that is a problem, because it's a. It's a problem of quality, perception of quality and actual quality.
Speaker 1:Okay, and the way around that in the space I work in is it's better than nothing, but it's still not great is there is a couple of certifying bodies. The one I'm certified through is the international coaching Federation. I think there's one or two others that are internationally known, and personally I would never work with an executive coach who wasn't certified through one of those bodies, just as a minimal quality guarantee. It means you had to go through a course, it means you had to take a test, it means you actually had to record live coaching sessions and have them evaluated by evaluators, by evaluators. So it doesn't really have any teeth, but a lot of larger companies do require certification for you to coach in them, like big financial institutions or big kind of Fortune 100, fortune 500 companies.
Speaker 1:So that's part of your answer, okay. The other part would be everything I just said is not relevant. If you're talking about a health coach, right, yeah, a health coach and an executive coach are completely well, in many, many ways different, okay. And then is a life coach an executive coach or a health coach or they, everything sort of overlaps because we are human beings and in some ways I am a life coach because I teach. I excuse me, ooh, that was a Freudian slip I don't teach, I coach human beings who have lives right, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of shades of gray. What I would say to be a discerning consumer is first of all check. If you decided you were going to work with a coach, really figure out what kind of coach you need. Because, as you just said, natasha, a business coach is very different than an executive coach, is very different than a career coach career. I would absolutely want to look for someone who, in their sort of tagline or website, put career transition or career engagement as one of the key things they did. Okay, so drop me down one more part. Can I answer one more part? Yeah, please go ahead. The last part would be the online coaching.
Speaker 1:So COVID changed the world for coaching. My personal opinion would be for the good, because all of a sudden, it became acceptable practice for I coach people in Africa, I coach people in the Middle East, I coach people on the West Coast. Before, that wasn't sort of accepted practice in the same way, or it was seen as less than so, a very well-credentialed, experienced coach, credentialed, experienced coach coaching online is not a problem in my opinion. What is a different issue is because of the boom in coaching. There are lots of coaching agencies, lots of coaching online platforms. A couple are really well known, like BetterUp. That's huge and they have a place. They tend to pay the coaches less and they tend to charge the clients less, making them more accessible to maybe middle levels of management or even direct to consumer coaching. That wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't online.
Speaker 1:The challenge there goes right back to the beginning of this conversation. There's a huge variety of quality and so as a consumer of coaching, as a client, you need to be very demanding, and I can talk a little bit more about what that could look like. If you want yeah, sure, please, go ahead. Well, so I think, first it's knowing exactly what kind of coach you want, right? Is it business coach you want, right? Is it business, is it executive? Is it health, is it life? And everybody who's a coach will give you a 30-minute chemistry meeting or a get-to-know-you free meeting and if they don't walk away Like that's part of our business development process, and if someone won't do that, walk away.
Speaker 1:Secondly, always, even if it's just for your own, like peace of mind, talk to at least two coaches so that you can feel fit, feel that intangible, just gut reaction to oh, I like this style better or I feel like I might be able to create trust with this person more easily. And then the last thing I would say, particularly if you're paying, but even if your company is, particularly if you're paying, but even if your company is, if it's not working for you, no-transcript right away. And if you don't get the reaction you're looking for, find someone else. And even if the coach says, oh yeah, I'll, okay, let's try it this way, let me and it doesn't work find another coach. You need to be a discerning customer okay, so let's do this.
Speaker 2:I want to be a book coach, right, and I have a lot like 20 years or actually more now you know how old I am of writing and publishing and published a book and the process of publishing another one, the process of publishing another one, and based on my over two decades of experience and running multiple cohorts, I think I'm qualified enough to coach and I've already coached people. Actually, I did not even advertise it. People came to me asked for private coaching. So because I saw the market demand, I'm in the process now of launching my own coaching program.
Speaker 1:Is this true or are you it is true?
Speaker 2:It's true. Okay, so you're giving me free advice here, so, and I'm and I'm hope, of course, it's going to be helpful for anyone who wants to do this Do I need to get a certification in book coaching or no? To make me more credible In what? Coaching? In book coaching, book coaching and there's an organization that offers that. I looked into it and it's like maybe a couple of grand. Is it really worth it? Okay?
Speaker 1:Okay, so great, great question. I know you're a journalist, so I, I I want to take this in pieces. Okay, so you want to be a coach and you have a skillset, all right. First of all, in today's market, it's very difficult to just say I'm going to be a coach, right. So the the the idea that you are building that expertise or offering on top of a skill set you have, right, is super important. What do you mean? Well, you know how to publish and write books, or you understand journalism, right, so you need to build coaching on top of an existing set of experiences and skill set, correct, yeah, okay, but that's not what a lot of people do, but you do like, because, partially, you have to go out into this very busy market and be able to differentiate yourself. Okay, there are a gazillion coaches out there. What's your particular value add, your value proposition that differentiates you? Well, it's going to have something to do with journalism or or, or the process of writing and getting published. Okay, all right. So I love that, that's great, okay.
Speaker 1:The second thing is, you need to be very clear. Are you doing consulting or coaching? They're total. Well, they're not total, they're different. Right, a consultant says I am going to give you three options and I'm going to recommend one of them and you're paying me for my expertise. That is actually about, usually about the content. So if I was going to come to you and say I want to write a book, how do you recommend I go about writing it and you tell me this is the process. Personally, I think that's advising and consulting. I don't think that's coaching. Then we get into semantics right. To me, coaching is more a practice of helping you find the answers inside yourself. I don't know them. Only you know your answers. Now that's coaching in its purest form. What the ICF wants you to do to get certified, okay.
Speaker 2:I see, so you basically guide them to unlock what they really want.
Speaker 1:You open them up to it through questions, tools, frameworks, whatever your process is, so that you can answer your own questions. That's very different than saying here's how you set up a publishing business or here. And it's a little bit different than some career coaching, which is a lot about accountability of did you call five recruiters? Have you looked on LinkedIn and found 10 jobs you want? That's very tactical sort of transactional coaching, right. But what I also want to say is there's a kind of a huge array. So you need to know, when you go out into the market, who am I and what's my service. And then you need to describe how. You need to decide how to describe it. Okay, I see.
Speaker 1:And the one last thing I wanted to say is, if you think you want to be a coach and I would never hire anyone to be a coach to be a coach, sometimes I have coaches work for me on certain if they did not have certification through some kind of certifying body. If I work with some ADHD coaches that work for me, I want them to get certified with an ADHD coaching program. That's what I want to see. If you came to me and said I can do ADHD coaching for you and your certification was through a book coaching program I'd say sounds great, but that's not a good fit. So to me, I think there are obviously always exceptions to the rule, but if you're a good coach, you've invested in the learning, the process of coaching and you've invested in being certified. There are exceptions, but that's my POV.
Speaker 2:So you're saying like I should go ahead and invest in a certification?
Speaker 1:Yes, If you want to be a coach I don't know if that's actually what you want to be or you want to be an advisor based on your experience and skill I don't know. If you put it this way, it wouldn't hurt, right, it would not hurt you, and that's not a very high price tag, correct? Yeah, it almost seems a little bit too low if you want my personal opinion, too low of what A price for the.
Speaker 1:A couple of grand, yeah, okay because, by the way, the training does not get you certified okay through the icf. If, if you take a coaching program, you still have to go through the testing that the ICF administers, that is not through your program, so there's still an additional cost involved.
Speaker 2:And the ICF certifies all sorts of coaches, or only executive coaches. It does no, all sorts.
Speaker 1:Ah, that's good to know. I don't think they do Like. I know they do life coaching. I know they do life coaching. I know there's ADHD coaching. I don't know if it's like health coaching. I don't think it is, but I'm not sure I can't speak to that.
Speaker 2:Okay, I want to shift gears a bit here and talk a bit about ADHD and the reason I mentioned ADHD. I know that you have a lot of focus on coaching people who have ADHD and I've noticed lately that there's a lot of adults that now identify as being ADHD and it has not been the case, and when I read the symptom I was like, huh, maybe I am ADHD. I don't know if this is like. I am just reading the news and I decided I am, but how do you know that and what are the symptoms that you've seen with people who have ADHD?
Speaker 1:Okay, Well, I'll tell you just, textbook wise, there are a list of medical criteria that you need to sort of meet. But one thing is ADHD and this is my understanding and my understanding of where the research is today you do not develop ADHD over your life. You are you, it is, it is. It is a neurobiological condition. You're born that way. Your brain is wired differently. Okay, so you don't catch it like a virus or you don't develop it in high school. So the um?
Speaker 1:Now, given the craziness of technology and the bombardment of information, I do think we are seeing ADHD like symptoms much more frequently and I'm not qualified to say well, if you have ADHD really, or you have the symptoms, should you treat it the same way or are they different? That's out of my realm of comfort, of opining. I would say many people feel more distracted, less able to focus, needing more dopamine hits, things like that. But let's go back to ADHD. If you're an adult and you think you have ADHD, first of all you're born with it. Second of all, if you have siblings or parents that you see similar traits, that can be helpful. Like, clearly my mother had ADHD. But clearly Okay, absolutely A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Um, the other thing is it needs to have a derogatory this is kind of the medical way of framing it a derogatory impact across multiple areas of your life. So if you said, if someone said, you know, I really have trouble focusing at work, but I don't have any trouble focusing at home, I'm really good in like having conversations or even in a crowd. I can initiate tasks, I can complete them at home and with friends, and I would say you don't have ADHD, you just don't like your job, you just are not interested in what you're doing at work. You need to be able to see the characteristics across domains. I see, okay, okay. So I it doesn't matter if I'm at work or with my family or in a social situation I have a lot of trouble focusing in a crowd Okay, it doesn't matter what part of my life Okay. So that's another key thing in terms of what are considered like ADHD is. Your brain is wired differently and it's usually about executive function issues.
Speaker 1:Okay, can you give me an example? Yeah, especially when it comes to communications, like ADHD people do they tend to talk more? Do they tend to interrupt? Do they? So they're dreamier, they're lost in thought? That tends to be a more common diagnosis of girls and women. And then there's combined so just because someone is not bouncing off, that's kind of our stereotypical example of a boy bouncing off the walls. No, it could be the dreamy girl looking out the window, not paying attention.
Speaker 1:It's more about an ability to initiate tasks, an ability to see tasks through and and an ability to shift between, like the detail in the bigger picture. Okay, so it's. It's about focus and about and about the ability to plan. That's what your executive functioning skills are for, and about your working memory, right, what you can hold in the short term, and about your processing speed. So there's a lot of different pieces. My son, for example, is extremely slow processor, so it's got nothing to do with his intelligence, but what would take you and I, what would take you and I? You know, a certain amount of time to absorb? It takes him much longer. He has to read it through.
Speaker 1:And now is that, yeah, he processes slower. Okay, and that's part of the learning and retention. So there's also impulsivity, can you? Is there that space between the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex where you can like slow down enough to make a rational decision versus just reacting yeah. And then there is also you know this is not strictly in the diagnosis, but like a hypersensitivity is also very high co-occurrence of addiction with ADHD, and the research today is saying ADHD brains are looking for more dopamine and looking for quick hits of dopamine. They don't have the ability to and I might not be using the quite right words here, like from a medical point of view, but I need quick hits of dopamine to keep me motivated, because what might motivate a neurotypical person and be enough dopamine isn't enough for me, so I look for it in other ways. I have to get up, I have to move, I have to um, uh, like a bright, shiny object. I'm like a bright, shiny object.
Speaker 2:I'm constantly looking for ways to keep myself engaged in a productive way Wow, fascinating. So we have a few minutes left and I want to ask you a bit about your writing process and your publishing journey. And the reason I'm asking you know? Because you know, of course, it's a podcast about writing and publishing and I'm curious to know how did you publish your book? Did you find an agent? Do you self-publish, did you? If you found one, how was the process?
Speaker 1:So, if you can walk us through your publishing journey, yeah sure, if you can walk us through your, your publishing journey. Yeah, sure. So I um I had been writing for a while online and getting certain things published, primarily on Forbes, and then Wiley, who's my publisher, contacted me and asked me if I wanted to write a book and I said I said yes, and then we still went through a process of um them kind of finally accepting my proposal, but they came to me and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that, based on the articles that you published in Forbes and other big publications, did you have to find an agent after you found the publisher?
Speaker 1:No, I did not have an agent.
Speaker 2:No, and you're still unagented now, correct, yeah, correct, okay, okay, okay, and you're still unagented. Now, correct, yeah, correct, okay, okay, okay, yes, um, do you, do you want to find an agent? Because, uh, one of the things that I hear from other authors is you need to have an agent to be protected. So I I want to hear your thoughts on that well.
Speaker 1:Well, I am going to write another book and I will probably. I have a very good friend who's an agent. I am going to ask her if I need one. I trust her and I have ADHD. I don't do a ton of research. Um, I, I, it's possible. Uh, I, you know. Look, my book came out literally a month ago, so it's very early days. I, I have an idea of what my next book is. I'm not sure who is the right publisher. It could be wiley again. Okay, wiley might not think they're the right publisher. I I don't know yet. Um, think they're the right publisher. I I don't know yet. Um, certainly that you know there are. I did look into self-publishing when I was deciding whether or not to go with Wiley.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's not cheap and it is not cheap, but it's like uh, at least five, six grand. I.
Speaker 1:I'm surprised it's. I've heard numbers much higher than that, but if, if you do it yourself, it's five, six grand.
Speaker 2:If you hire like a huge uh, let's say, self-publishing agency, it can be like 20 grand or more that's, that's what I heard. Yeah, I looked into all of these options. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think the thing about the self-publishing route is you have a lot more freedom in how you do things, whereas you know Wiley, like, knows what it does. It does things a certain way and that's how they're going to do it, and you know you need to look at that from an author's point of view. What do you want? And the clearer you are on the kind of book you're writing, the more I think that helps you find the right publisher or decide to self-publish or hybrid publish. Um, you know, if you know, for example, you want to write a book with a lot of graphics and sort of funky type and you know a lot of images, to me a lot of publishers won't do that. That may be more a self-publishing route or it would be a very specific niche publisher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how is the book doing, by the way?
Speaker 1:I think it's doing well. Yeah, I've like a lot of fantastic reviews. It's pretty evergreen because it's you know, basically 10 years of the frameworks I use summarized into 10, 12 frameworks that I use all the time in all my engagements, and sort of served up so that you as an individual can use them yourself. So it's you know, it's not like about the hybrid workplace that is topic of the day, right? And yeah, like I, I think my next book will be harder to write because this book, like I actually now truly believe we all have a book inside us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, whether anybody wants to read it is a different point, but we all have a book inside us and in a way, that's what I did. I just told my story. Right, my next book, I will need to interview a lot of people and figure out what do I do with that. Like, it will be more time intensive and more complicated because it won't just be what's in my head validated by a little research. Yeah, right, it will be. It will be different and I'm still trying to kind of wrap my head around that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, best of luck, and I know you're very busy so I'm not going to take more of your time, but this has been fascinating and when I look into this coaching certificate and best of luck with your book, with your coaching career, and for anyone to reach you or buy your book, how can they reach you?
Speaker 1:Oh, thanks for that. So the book is on Amazon. Antonia Bowring Coach Yourself, increase Awareness, change Behavior and Thrive Real, easy to find. You can also buy it or contact me through my website, which is ab-strategiescom, and I'm on LinkedIn. Just my name, antonia Bowering, and my passion project is. I'm on LinkedIn, just my name, antonia Bowring, and my passion project is. I'm on TikTok talking about ADHD. Antonia Bowring, 963.
Speaker 2:You get a lot of engagement on TikTok. No.
Speaker 1:Well, I am inching my way up to becoming viral. Good for you.
Speaker 2:I'm going to add you to. I'm on TikTok but not that active. But yeah, I'll add you.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, find me, follow me. I'll be so happy, okay.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much and, for anyone who's listening or watching, thank you for joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha and, until we meet again, thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. I'm your host, natasha Tynes. If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. Until next time, happy reading, happy writing.
