Read and Write with Natasha
This podcast discusses writing life, reviews books, and interviews authors and industry professionals.
Read and Write with Natasha
Torn Pages: A Mother’s Story of Her Children's Abduction To Saudi Arabia
When Patricia Bonis lost her children to international abduction, she was thrust into every parent’s worst nightmare—fourteen years of silence.
In her memoir Jeddah Bride, Patricia recounts the unimaginable journey from Florida courtrooms to the heart of Saudi Arabia, where a judge’s decision to allow unsupervised visitation led to more than a decade of separation.
With raw honesty and emotional clarity, Patricia exposes the human toll of international custody battles. Her story reveals the alarming gaps in protection for children and parents caught between conflicting legal systems.
"Within one hour of his unsupervised visitation, they were on a plane to Saudi Arabia—and I didn’t see my children for fourteen years," she says, still stunned by how swiftly her world changed.
Now a passionate advocate through the organization Find My Parent, Patricia channels her pain into purpose, offering hope and support to others navigating similar tragedies.
Her story is a powerful reminder of how quickly ordinary lives can be upended—and how resilience can restore what once seemed irretrievably lost.
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This is the really crazy part. The United States Florida judge ruled that he can have unsupervised visitation, which meant I had to relinquish my children to him with no one not me, not the nanny, not anyone supervising. Within one hour of his unsupervised visitation they were on a plane to Saudi Arabia and I never saw my children for 14 years.
Speaker 2:Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha podcast. My name is Natasha Tynes and I'm an author and a journalist. In this channel I talk about the writing life, review books and interview authors. Hope you enjoy the journey. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. I have with me Patricia Bonas. She's an interior designer, equestrian and an author of Jeddah Bride, which I have here right with me. It's a memoir about her journey, marrying into a prominent Saudi family and her fight to reunite with her children after a devastating abduction. With over 30 years in interior design, she has worked with ambassadors and international leaders. She splits her time between Florida and New York with her husband and their poodle, Harley. All right, so, Patricia, thank you so much for joining me today. I think I'd like to start with me asking you why did you decide to tell this story? I mean, it's kind of a stressful story. It might be sad, it might be traumatic, so I'm just curious to hear why did you decide to do this?
Speaker 1:Well, it was suggested to me by every single person that heard my story that I should write a book. Everyone would say why don't you write a book? Why don't you write a book? Even I mean, my children were kidnapped and I didn't see them for 14 years. During those 14 years, people would always say, write a book, write a book. But I couldn't because I didn't know how the story would end up. I didn't know if I'd ever see them again. So I thought, well, no, there's no chance of a book. But when I was reunited with them, I no, there's no chance of a book. But when I was reunited with them, I thought about it. That's the first time.
Speaker 1:It became something that I would consider and it seemed like a difficult thing to accomplish because I'd never written a book and I'm a designer that's more visual than a language-based endeavor. But I started chapter by chapter and suddenly I had a book and it took about 10 years of chapter by chapter. It wasn't that, wasn't even easy, but I did it. And then I of course asked my children if they would object to me sharing this book. I love the idea that I could finally, once and for all, share the story, because I feel like there's many people that it could help and it could touch, and maybe I can even make a change in the way international abductions are handled in this world, Since we're so, you know, we're a world where people are traveling all over the place. Students in college are encouraged to go abroad for a semester. We're always mixing and mingling, you know. Like they say, airports are the bus station of the future. In other words, people go on airplanes all the time going traveling, and I thought let me bring in my experience just so that.
Speaker 1:I can share it with others and maybe we can improve this for the rest of the world. So that's why we're here.
Speaker 2:Fascinating, so okay. So where are your children now? If you don't mind me asking, you don't mind me asking anything.
Speaker 1:My son, kareem, is a successful businessman. He took over the family business in Jeddah and he lives partially in Jeddah in Europe. He's a big show jumper, jumper. He's also equestrian, he travels all over and he also, I think, lives in Dubai. Okay, but not the horse time. Yes, and my son that's my son. My daughter, sultana, lives in the United States. She splits her time between New York and Florida because she also is an equestrian and she competes in the horse shows at this time of the year here in Florida, in Wellington.
Speaker 2:So what was the reaction when you published the book, especially, like you know, revealing intimate details about their family?
Speaker 1:My son said it's your story to tell and he kind of sighed and he was like resigned to tell. And he kind of sighed and he was like resigned. But I think he wants to like distance himself from having his opinion about it because he does live there. But he said he felt that I had the right to tell my story. My daughter was a little scared, she's like whoa, but she's afraid that her friends might her Saudi friends might get angry. But actually everybody's been supportive so I think she's okay with it now. Okay. Okay, if I asked her to come on a podcast and talk, I don't think she'd want to get involved with that Because she doesn't, you know.
Speaker 1:And I was asked once by one of the interviewers like do your children know how you suffered? And I was like if they read the book they would know. But he goes what do you mean if they read the book? What about you talking to them about it? And I said you know what? I just don't feel the need to go into. You know details of everything. They love their family, they love me. Why make them choose or tear them apart? It's just, it's just not productive. So that's kind of my position on that.
Speaker 2:So, without giving away any spoilers, so your kids were living with you in the United States. That's when they were abducted by their father and sent back to Saudi Arabia. Is that correct? That is correct, okay.
Speaker 1:Do you want me to expound on that? Yeah, yeah, please. We were 10 years into this marriage and it was a rocky one. There were a lot of cultural differences that I didn't think were important, that after a while they grate on your nerves, but we did love each other and we were living in Florida believe it or not, right here in Wellington at the time, because my ex-husband was a polo player. In addition to being a lawyer and a businessman, he was a polo player and this is the capital, the polo capital of the year of the world during this time of the year. So we lived here and we had our two little children Sultana was not even two years old she's just over a year and Kareem was three and we just started really having a bad time with our marriage.
Speaker 1:It had to do with infidelity and when I confronted my husband in the book it talks about this when I confronted him and said, well, why there's? You know, everyone knows you're having an affair with this woman His answer to me instead of what he used to, what he would have said when I first met him, he would have said I'm so sorry, I'll never do it again. I'm sorry it just got. I was. I don't know. I don't know what came over. Whatever, I promise Forgive me. Instead of saying that, he said look, I'm Saudi and I can have four wives, and that to me. I don't know if he really meant that or if he, if he did, did really believe that at that point. But that's not the man I married. So I said, okay, look, this is just not going anywhere, let's just get a divorce. So we did. I filed for divorce and this is the crazy part for me. This is the really crazy part.
Speaker 1:The United States Florida judge ruled that he can have unsupervised visitation, which meant I had to relinquish my children to him with no one not me, not the nanny, not anyone supervising. Within one hour of his unsupervised visitation, they were on a plane to Saudi Arabia and I never saw my children for 14 years. And not only not seeing them, I couldn't correspond. I couldn't write to them. I could. I sent letters, I'd send, toys, I'd send. Nobody told me whether they received them. I never received any communication back.
Speaker 1:Nobody would share with me where they were in school, what they were doing, and this and none of my friends. This was also a little bit amazing to me. None of my friends there and I knew English girls, spanish girls married to Saudis, french girls, american nobody would break their code of silence. Nobody would send me a picture of my children, maybe at a gathering, maybe there'd be a birthday party. The children would be blowing out the candles. My son could have been standing next to the birthday boy. Why wouldn't any of my friends even send me a picture of my son? I don't know what my children looked like when they were eight years old, or 10 years old, or 12 years old. I don't know what they look like. And by the time I found my son, he was just turning 18. I could have passed him on the street and I wouldn't have known that it was my son. I didn't know what he looked like. So this was the really cruel part that I felt was just unacceptable.
Speaker 2:So from the very first visit he took the children, put them on a plane. How did you find out that he kidnapped them?
Speaker 1:Well, the nanny was waiting at home at our house. I wasn't there. We had separated so we were still married. We hadn't divorced yet. I was living in our house in Washington DC and the nanny was down there with them and he took them out to dinner and he was allowed to do that and they left, they got, went to the airport in Miami and boarded a flight.
Speaker 1:And the nanny called me at one o'clock in the morning waiting for them to come home from dinner. It was already one o'clock and he you know he was he was the type that he'd go out for dinner very late. He dragged the kids around Even when we were together we do, we, you know we kept very crazy hours. We're always with jet lag and whatever. So I didn't, you know, she didn't think too much of it when they weren't home by 10 o'clock, but by one o'clock. She was worried at 1am and so she called me and she said I have bad news the children haven't come home. They haven't come home.
Speaker 1:And we started calling people in the middle of the night and suddenly we received a phone call from a lady and she said I work on Moroccan Airlines and I was told to call this number and tell you that your children are on a flight to Saudi Arabia. So that's how I found out exactly what happened and I of course, called my in-laws. I said he's taken them. They couldn't believe that he did that. They were like what? What's going on, you know, but that's how it happened Okay.
Speaker 2:So I'm just curious why didn't you just jump on the next flight to Saudi Arabia to go get the?
Speaker 1:visa To go in Saudi. I couldn't get in there without a visa. I couldn't get in there, even when I was married to him, without him meeting me at the airport. One time I'll tell you, I missed my flight and I took a different flight. I was in Europe, he was in Saudi. We were married. We were fine, we didn't have any problems. It was so strict there at that time. No, we were fine, we didn't have any problems. It was so strict there at that time. Now we're talking.
Speaker 1:1989 was when my children were yeah, I don't know what it's like today, but for an American to get a visa you have to be invited by either a business or a family, and you had to be. You had to go to the embassy, have interviews. It took me so long to get there. So when I was married to him, him I always had to have someone meet me at the airport because otherwise they put me in custody. American women didn't just land in the airport, even if you had a visa. You had to be picked up by somebody or they'd throw you in a room and god knows what would happen to.
Speaker 1:It was very. There were a lot of. It was. It was different than, um, I don't. I've heard a lot of stories. I can't confirm them for sure, but women unaccompanied were foreign. Women unaccompanied were not safe, put it that way. So I couldn't. I couldn't go there. They would have arrested me and he would have had them arrest me, I know. So, yeah, I would have been around. It's a lot different than other countries in the Middle East, and especially in the 80s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So did you contact the embassy Like what did you do the minute you found out?
Speaker 1:Well, I was already in divorce litigation in the United States. I had the top international lawyer in Washington DC defending me top international lawyer in Washington DC defending me and I called my lawyer in the morning and I said I told you he was the one that said to me you know, I fought for a year in court not to give visitation to him and my lawyer, you know, said after about a year he goes you're ridiculous, you're never going to get this divorce finished if you don't give something. You have to give in, you have to give him a little something and then we'll proceed with the divorce. We've been fighting over this custody and this visitation for a year. You will never be divorced if you don't let me settle. So that's why I gave up on the idea that he should have supervised visitation. So I called my lawyer and I told him well, here we go, the kids are gone.
Speaker 1:They're kidnapped and he called the State Department. He did all this stuff. I went to the State Department. I mean it was just another whole disaster full of meetings. And you know, there's something called the Warsaw Convention and it's a treaty that was made in like the 1970s I think, maybe 1980, maybe. But it was in force, this Hague Convention. But Saudi did not sign the Hague Convention so it wasn't obliged. It deals with international child abduction wasn't obliged. It deals with international child abduction and the Saudis would not sign because they have their own laws. They live by Islamic law, that's the law of the land, and they don't allow anyone else to, you know, force them to obey other laws.
Speaker 1:So I was stuck with a country. I didn't realize that at the time. Who knew I was stuck with a country? I didn't realize that at the time, who knew I was stuck with a country that just wasn't signing any documents giving any other legal entity rights over my case. So I had to go, my children were held there by Saudi law in that country and that's that. There was really nothing I could do, although I did fight and I did try. I tried different ways of getting to them. I tried people that I knew that we knew in common. I tried, it just was years of nothing, no results, no results at all.
Speaker 2:What about the Saudi? The American embassy in Saudi?
Speaker 1:Why didn't, like they, send a representative to the house, or when I was there and my children were Americans, they had never my daughter had never stepped foot in Saudi Arabia, you know, and according to the Hague convention it's their habitual residence. The Hague convention doesn't so much care about the parents, it cares about the wellbeing of the children. And if a child speaks a certain language and they've been educated or raised in a certain country and that's the only country they know, they would never want that child to be transferred to a strange country where they don't speak the language, they don't know anyone and they don't feel they would have a certain amount of visitation. But this was all out the door for us. We couldn't. We couldn't have that kind of fairness and basically, actually I think I forgot your question.
Speaker 2:I was getting Sorry it was. Why didn't the embassy send someone so?
Speaker 1:let me tell you my experience with the American embassy, and this is another reason I mean I'm the first one to criticize. My country allowed this to happen. People think America is going to you know, do anything for you. Think of all the hostages that are being held in other countries in America. Half the time they don't even bother to get them back.
Speaker 1:I went to the American embassy when I lived in Saudi when I was married to my husband. It was a few years into the marriage. My mom was encouraging me please, you have to go to the embassy, you have to meet other Americans in Saudi. You have to have them register your passport just in case there's ever an uprising. You will be safe. You have to have the American embassy know that you're there.
Speaker 1:And I sort of resisted because the family really wasn't that comfortable about me going alone to the American embassy. But I finally said look, I'm going. So I had my driver bring me over there and I walked in and I met. You know there was maybe an Egyptian guy taking. You know there was nobody else there except me and him in the room and he said what are you here for? I said, well, I'm here to register, I'm American. I'm here to register with the embassy. I wanted to know if there's anything I could do, like gatherings or anything I could be involved with, and he looked at me like I was a nut, so I said, oh, okay, okay, well, hold on, so he goes into this room, he comes out and then this American lady comes out I guess she was working there in the consulate and she said so what are you here for?
Speaker 1:I said, well, I'm American and I want to register my passport and I want to do all these things and see if there's any other activities Maybe maybe there's a tennis group or maybe there's a bridge club and she says she actually started almost crying. I can't even. It was the weirdest encounter I've had almost in my whole life. She says there's nothing for you here, we're not a social club, we're not here. She says there's nothing for you here, we're not a social club, we're not here for your amusement and there's nothing we can offer you. And I said she goes, why did you even come here? So I said well, I'm married to a Saudi man and I live here, and can I register my passport? She says if you wish, wish, you can have him photocopy that. I think you can have the guy photocopy your passport, but we really can't help you. You're on your own. Those are her words. I'm not lying. You're on your own, good luck.
Speaker 1:So that's how they treated me, and I've had several experiences with friends that were Lebanese background, they were Americans, but they had. Their grandparents had been born in Lebanon, very wealthy, lovely American people. They'd gone to Lebanon for a wedding, a family wedding, and they thought they'd go see the country that they, you know, they weren't really familiar with Lebanon and it seemed like there was a peaceful break between all the different skirmishes there and they were excited to go see Lebanon. Unfortunately, while they were there, there was an invasion this is about 15 years ago and they had to be. First. They called the American embassy. The American embassy would not help them. They had to be, you know, brought to the country and hidden there in somebody's house. Their son, who was in New Jersey at the time, was calling the embassy, calling everything, calling everyone. He knew anyone of influence, a senator. Nobody could help them and the American embassy was not willing to help them.
Speaker 1:What they did, finally, how they got out, was the. They had relatives that were also Lebanese background, that were Italians. They were living in Italy but they were at the wedding and they were. They went to the Italian embassy. The Italian embassy got my friends that were American out of Lebanon safely. The Italian embassy I'm telling you this is people don't realize the American embassy is not. They say it's. We're not a social club and we're not you. Come here on your own risk, at your own risk. They can't be bothered. And I mean that and I fought long and hard with the state department on this and this is just not their job. They feel it's not their job.
Speaker 2:So how did you reunite with them after 14 years? How did that happen?
Speaker 1:I was working in my office. Sitting there, I'd pretty much given up of anything. I didn't even know where I'd lost. So how do you even know? 14 years, all I knew they could be living in Zimbabwe. I had no idea. I had no idea. I got a phone call. It was a man that had gone to law school in Washington DC with my ex-husband. We had lived there for about six years. And this friend of his said listen, I was in Saudi Arabia recently visiting. And your daughter? I feel so bad, she needs a mother. I feel so bad looking at her. She's lost. He goes. Your son is like prince of the family. He's doing fine. Your daughter really isn't. And I decided to tell you how to contact them.
Speaker 1:Here's the real kicker my son thanks to the watch list from our State Department that he was supposedly on, my son was attending boarding school in Indiana in the United States for the last two years. He had been in the United States at school. He didn't know how to contact me because there was no internet. There was no like. He didn't even know if it was Patricia Abar, which would have been my last name. What was? I don't even know if he knew my maiden name, patricia Bonas. He didn't know if I was in Washington DC, where we had lived. We had lived in Florida, we had never lived in New York. I'd gone back to New York because my family was there. He didn't know so he couldn't contact me.
Speaker 1:I found out that he was there so I hired a private investigator and he was graduating that that month. It was May, and he was going to go to school, to college. So I had the private investigator find out where, because I was thinking, oh my God, this is crazy. He's going to graduate in a week. School's almost over, I imagine. All the seniors are having parties. I just knew, as from being a high school student, I would have died of, I would have been mortified if my mother showed up at my school when I'm having my senior prom. You know, I would have died, and it's a military school, also in a boarding school. So I knew that this is not my time to do this. This is like crash and burn, right. So I I found out that he was going to be attending Boston University in the fall and I spent the whole summer preparing for how I was going to connect with him in the fall and actually, because it is such a sad story and a lot of crazy stuff.
Speaker 1:I started the book. My first chapter started with me waking up in the morning that day in September, september 2001. And I said today's the day. He's in school for a week, he's already gotten his apartment settled. I'm going to get in my car, I'm going to drive up to Boston right now. I prepared my outfit, I prepared what I was going to say and I just needed to get to him and I was going to start the relationship.
Speaker 1:I drove up there and that's what happened. I got to his door, I knocked on the door and he opened the door and he looked at me and he smiled and he probably I don't know what he was thinking, maybe she's delivering something, or you know, he goes hi. Who are you? And I said I'm your mother. And he was really, really shocked. He was as shocked as I was. We were both shocked. And he was really, really shocked. He was as shocked as I was. We were both shocked. He'd never seen me in so long. I used to dye my hair very dark. I looked different in pictures. I don't know if he even saw a picture of me.
Speaker 1:He knew what I looked like when he was a baby. He was like four years old when he didn't see me again. But he let me come in. I begged him. Please, let me in, please, I just want to talk to you. And we started our relationship getting to know each other again, and so that's how I saw Kareem, and after that, sultana went to Wellesley it was a year later. That's where I went so she got in there and I somebody gave me her hotmail address, so I started emailing her and she also was shocked. I emailed her and I said Sultana, and she goes yeah, and then I said hi, it's your mother. She goes oh, come on, who is this? And I said no, this is your mother. It really is, truly, she's really. And so we started every day having conversations on email, and then that next year she came to Wellesley. So I started we're very close.
Speaker 2:Wow, what a story. So I'm curious. The gentleman that called you said your daughter needs a mother. Why would he wait 14 years if he had the information before that?
Speaker 1:No, I don't think he had seen her before this. He was not Saudi, he was visiting. I don't think he'd seen the children until this time. I think, you know, my ex-husband would travel around. He left the children at his parents' house. They weren't even living with him in Saudi, they were living with my in-laws, and so this friend of his was living and working, I believe, in London as an attorney and he, you know, maybe it happened that time that he decided to come and visit Saudi Arabia. I don't think he'd ever been there before. There were other people that actually visited Saudi, but none of them would share any information with me.
Speaker 2:Were they threatened or why do you think they did not help you out?
Speaker 1:Well, one of these people was my brother-in-law. Believe it or not, my sister married a fellow that was my ex-husband's best friend. So my sister's husband was doing business with them in Saudi. He was Belgian, they were building hotels in Europe or something. He wouldn't let me know anything because of business. I think he pursued the friendship with my ex-husband just because it was a rich Saudi. That's my opinion, but he would never share anything with me and my sister, you know, couldn't get any information out of him. And there were other people that I would, that I would write to and beg me, you know, please send me information, send me anything, tell me how they're doing. Nobody would. Nobody would tell me. So I don't know they were. They were either faithful to him, they maybe he told them. I'm crazy, I don't know. I don't know what he had done because I was so cut off that I was really in the dark for all those years.
Speaker 2:So now I think the question did he read the book and what was his reaction to it? And what about the? Are you worried about, like him, suing or defamation or what? What was the legal like when you wrote the book? Did you consult the lawyer?
Speaker 1:Yes, it's my story, it's my life and I, I, I. I don't think there's anything he can do, because everything I said was true, everything's absolutely true was true, everything's absolutely true, and I didn't say a lot of things that I could have said because I thought, well, I don't want to go too far. I think I was really fair. I think I was really really fair.
Speaker 2:Have you heard from him or from the family? Oh, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:I haven't spoken to him. I will tell you that I went. I had, I had this. You know the book. When I first did the first manuscript it was 600 pages. I cut half of it out in order to get it published. No, no, no publisher, no editor. Nobody would look at a 600 page memoir. That's crazy, especially since I'm not famous or anything. But there was a part. There was a time about like five, six, seven years ago before way before COVID, so let's say seven years ago where my son was getting married and we were very close. He would visit me twice a year, like in October and April. He'd find. You know he had business trips and whenever he'd come to do a reunion at BU or reunion at Culver Academy, he would always stop through New York and we'd see each other. I used to be living in New York and so Kareem came to about eight years ago and he said to me I have something to tell you.
Speaker 1:So I said what he goes. I got engaged. So I said, oh, that's fantastic. Tell me about the girl Saudi? No, she's not Saudi. Yeah, wait, she is Saudi, but we're not having the wedding in Saudi. I said no-transcript, you're coming to the wedding. You're invited, please. So I said, okay, fine, I'll come to the wedding. Now tell me, how do you want me to come? Do you want me to come alone? Do you want me to come with my other child, amanda, which is my third child? I had a nine-year-old at the time. Do you want me to come with my husband or do you want whatever you want? You want me to come with grandma, my mom? I bring grandma Terry.
Speaker 1:What would make it easiest for your family to digest the idea that I am there? He said, no, bring Mitchell. He was my husband. I said, cause he liked Mitchell, he goes. Oh, he's a good guy, don't worry about it. My dad has a girlfriend, nobody cares. Okay, I asked him 10 times before I bought the tickets. So Mitchell and I fly to Dubai and we get there. It was lovely.
Speaker 1:We had a great day the first day, second day, then there's the wedding. All of a sudden, my two children are like all up in arms, my daughter's crying. I was like what's going on? Our father found out that you're coming to the wedding and he's very angry and he doesn't want you there. Well, it turned out that the bride's parents were the hosts and they said that I was invited and they're not going to throw me out. So the whole wedding I had to, like stand on a different side of the room.
Speaker 1:It was a huge event, thank god, and I avoided getting anywhere near him. Uh, I saw him briefly all the way across the across the room, but that's it. We never spoke. We haven't spoken in 20 years. Um, and he threatened and my children told me that he threatened that because he's very friendly, I guess, with the Iman or Sultan or whoever is something of Dubai. I don't know the ruling family. They're what they call themselves King, sultan, whatever, whoever that person was, my ex-husband was going to tell him to throw us out of the country. So my husband, I quickly jumped on a plane the next day and left because I didn't want any issues. So I don't think back to the book. Is he aware that I wrote the book? I think he's aware he's living. He doesn't live in Saudi, he lives in Dubai and Spain Even he didn't like living there and Spain, even he didn't like living there. He hasn't done anything yet. I don't think he's going to bother. I think he's hoping that it just dies. You know, fizzles out.
Speaker 2:Okay, are you prepared? Are you prepared if he decides to pursue any legal battles? Yeah, okay, okay, okay, I'm prepared Because you know you've been and I did some research and I've seen you've been on TV shows, mostly in the US, but you know, now on social media, you know people might pay attention, anyways. So, okay. So how did you find your publisher and or agent or how was your publishing journey? Because you went to them and I said I have this memoir. How did you attract the publishing world to actually sell it and believe you that?
Speaker 1:was the hardest part of this whole journey getting a publisher. It was like the third rail Nobody wants to touch it. Yeah, I worked for almost 10 years.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:My daughter, Amanda, was doing interviews for college. She's 30 years old now. So we were going to colleges for interviews and I was catching up the last touches of the book when I'd be waiting, you know, I flew with her to different places and I'd be waiting, you know, in the hotel room for her to have her interview. And I finished up the book and I started trying to get it published. At that time I tried to get a literary agent first, because I didn't know anything about books. Like I didn't know. I read them.
Speaker 1:I like reading, but I didn't know what it is to have to get published. So I said I can't just go to a publisher. No, you can't go to a publisher, you need a literary agent. So I got and then I had to have a format, a book proposal. So I actually and I actually got in touch with Kevin Anderson and Associates in New York and I told them I have this manuscript and I need a literary agent and I'd like to get it published and I need to know how to go about it. And I paid them to show me how to write a book proposal. They said the book's too long, you have to cut it in half. All of that.
Speaker 2:And they are what like a publishing shop? No, kevin.
Speaker 1:Anderson and Associates are editors. They're editors. It's an editorial company. And how did I find them? It's my daughter, my youngest daughter, who ended up. She's an actress now. She does a lot of um, she gets, she does a lot of things like commercials and she does ads for different companies. And she came in contact. She was asked to do um, the voice, voice, um, voicing for a, an um, a like a report about this company. That was an editorial company. And she said Mom, there are these companies that exist, they do editorial, they edit you. You could pay them to edit you, especially if you're going to self-publish.
Speaker 1:Now, I would never self-publish, it's just too much to ask. And I wanted to have a publisher, at least so in case I have legal needs or anything, I thought let me be with a publisher at least, so in case I have legal needs or anything, I thought let me be with a publisher. So I got in touch with the one person. I got in touch with Kevin Anderson through that, through my daughter, and they I said this is what I have. They said well, this is how we can help you and we can give you the, the, the um, we can edit your book and tell you what we think you should cut out. And, if you know, I pay per pay per per word. I had to pay per word.
Speaker 1:And so, kevin Anderson and associates they were very good they gave me a lady, jennifer, I can't remember her last name, but she worked with me and she told me, um, she said that you've written it well, but you have to take more, you know. She gave me some stylistic assistance and she showed me how to write a book proposal. And what we learned was every single literary agent has a different format that they want to receive when they're looking at books. So you have to. Some want an outline and then an excerpt, a hundred words. Some want, you know, the first chapter. Some want, you know, everyone wants something different and nobody wants the full manuscript. I can tell you that much.
Speaker 1:And so we proceeded, my daughter and I, cause she wanted to help me with this. Um, we proceeded to create book proposals and send them out to every single literary agent that was doing memoirs or anything about the Middle East, and we finally found a literary agent, keith Corman, and he found me the publisher. Once you have a literary agent agent, then you go to the publishers and the publisher. One of the things that made them attracted to my book was the um, I think the the invasion of um, the war and um a year and a half ago and in october, and this in gaza okay if they thought that that was a point of interest.
Speaker 1:People would be interested to have an insight. Yeah, I'm looking at it. Yeah, and then it was. You know, I met them about three months after the invasion or after the war started, or whatever one would call it, um, and I guess that was a hot topic. I also had a little bit of interest during the gulf war, which was a very long time ago, but I hadn't I hadn't gotten my children back and I hadn't um written a book, and someone suggested that would you write a book? And I'm like I haven't written a book, why would? Would I write a book? I mean like so I guess sometimes when there's interest, you know, when there are events happening in the Middle East, they look around for people that my openness and my authenticity was what decided that this story should be told. That's what they said.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I'm curious did anyone from the Middle East see it or did you get any reaction? I mean, besides the family like regular readers on Goodreads or any of those reviews. Did you get any reaction? I mean, besides the family like regular readers on goodreads or any of those reviews did you get?
Speaker 1:and I've had probably been the most positive of reactions I've had. Okay, I'll tell you what happened. There was a big article in the daily mail about a month, a month ago, I almost died. When I saw that, I almost died, I was like, because I know, like every Saudi that knows me and every middle, they all go to London and this is I was like, oh dear God, when I was reading it I was so scared that it would say something like maybe turn it into like a tabloid, like gossip or something I don't know. I didn't want them to stray from the truth. I was afraid they'd exaggerate and make it like, really look, you know, I just didn't know what they were going to say.
Speaker 1:So I read the whole thing, Like, thank God, thank God, it's not. It's not like they said something crazy that was not true or something like they exaggerated my book. Thank God, okay, so, okay. So I was holding my breath and I started getting emails and texts and a call from, first of all, from my daughter, sultana. She said Valerie one of the ladies that I wrote about in the book she was a relative, she was married to my husband's cousin was so excited and she's asking for an autographed copy. And another friend of mine that I wrote about in the book also was asking for an autographed copy. And they're all excited and everybody's been texting me. I had one lady text me. She says oh my God, patricia, I read your book. I cried all day. Do you remember me? Our children played together.
Speaker 1:She was, um, she was, uh, not Saudi, but she was married to a Saudi. I think she was Jordanian, I think I don't remember. But she said my children, my, my husband and I, are divorced. My children are married and living all around the world, but I wondered what happened when your children came back to Saudi with their dad? But you were not there and nobody knew what had happened. The family kept it very secretive. And now my heart breaks to know this story actually happened to you. This is the kind of reaction I'm receiving from people. Yeah, I haven't, nobody criticized me so far.
Speaker 2:Do you have plans to translate it into Arabic? Okay, let me tell you what happened.
Speaker 1:I have a very good friend who's Brazilian, patricia Mansour. She's also in the book and she was married to a very, very wealthy man and they played polo. They flew all over the world. I loved her. She was very sweet and she begged me. She couldn't get the book. She heard about the book. She couldn't get the book in Brazil. I don't believe they allow Amazon to sell books there. I think there's something about Brazil. They cannot, I don't know. They can't get through.
Speaker 1:So what I did is I took five books. I put them in a box, stuffed it with, you know, plastic and wrapper and sent this. It took a month for her to get it, but she finally received it. She took a picture of herself holding it and sent it to me on Instagram. After she read it and all her friends read the book, she said I want to publish it in brazil. I want, and she's you know, she's a very important lady married to an important rich man, so she she feels like she can. I said it's not that easy to do that that you've never published. You don't. You have to get a. I don't know how to do it. She goes well, we need to get it translated, so I said well, that's the easy part, I can easily because my daughter does voiceovers.
Speaker 1:My daughter can get me introduced to the top translators anywhere. That's not the big deal. The big deal is, I think Brazil has its own publishing law, so we have to get a Brazilian publisher to publish the book and I have all those rights. I didn't give those rights away to my publisher here in America. I've got the international rights. So I was thinking we were exploring this just last week. As far as I would translate it to Arabic, I definitely would and I would have the publisher. But we need a Middle Eastern publisher or someone that gets you. Know, I don't know. I think there's ways. In each country they have copyright laws and publishing. Know, I don't know. I think there's ways. In each country they have copyright laws and publishing laws. I don't know. This is not my area of expertise. Somebody would want to do that, would have to want to do that with me, and they'd have to do a lot of work on it, but I would definitely grant rights.
Speaker 1:I think I really told the truth. I actually loved my Saudi family In the end of the book. I can't even read it out loud because it makes me cry every time I read it. My father-in-law, my ex-father-in-law, invited me to London and he had come several, several times to America since I had been reunited with my children and I saw him with the children and he saw my third, my third child, my daughter Amanda, and he called her his granddaughter and I said I'm Abdullah, why, why are you calling her your granddaughter? Because you're my daughter and she's your daughter, so I'm her grandfather, and he told her that. And she and she's your daughter, so I'm her grandfather, and he told her that. And she, she's like mom, they're. So that's so weird. They kept the kids in the kid. I said you know what?
Speaker 1:My final take takeaway is that this is the culture. It's a harsh, ancient culture. It's very rigid. They follow the rules. They love you, but they have tough love. They make you follow the rules, but they still love you, and this happened the way they raised their kids. Oftentimes, you know, there's just a harshness about Saudi Arabia that is what it is and very strong religious beliefs and they follow those beliefs and that's that you can't bend. You cannot bend those rules. So my father-in-law still said he loves me and my mother-in-law? She was sick with cancer and she called me from Saudi Arabia and she said you're my daughter, I want you to know that, and I'm I'm going to die, but I die loving you and you're my daughter, don't ever forget. So this, this is. You know, how can you hate I? I don't hate anyone, I don't. This is their culture.
Speaker 1:I was not kidnapped into that culture, I went voluntarily. So I'm not going to start judging and saying they did this wrong, they did that wrong. That's their culture. I was very naive. I let myself get involved way over my head. I do judge, though, my American culture, my American State Department and my American government and law system. That did not serve me at all and I also don't like that. Internationally, we don't have sets of rules and laws, because children are really getting the brunt of it. So I have criticism, but I really don't criticize Saudi, so I wouldn't care if it were published. This is a true story that happened in the 1980s. It really did happen.
Speaker 2:Did they compare you to the movie Not Without my Daughter and stuff like that?
Speaker 1:Everyone tries to, but it's a different story, because I was in Iran and she was in Iran when this happened. I was in America. That's the weird part. Everyone assumes that I was in Saudi when they were kidnapped, but no, they wouldn't have been kidnapped. I would have been thrown out or prevented from seeing them, but no, this happened in America. This is an American story.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you mentioned cultural differences. When you first got married, what were the main cultural differences that you think led to the break of the marriage or the breakup of the marriage?
Speaker 1:Well, cultural differences. My husband didn't want me to work. Okay, that was one cultural difference. In his country women were not allowed to work at the time. Now they do. Now they are allowed to work. I don't know how rigid it is Like. I don't think any woman's allowed in government. I don't think any woman's allowed in. I don't know if they're allowed on TV, maybe with covering and everything.
Speaker 1:I don't know if they're allowed on TV, maybe with covering and everything, but at the time that I was there and living there, the only job they were allowed to have and they'd have to be educated abroad would be a gynecologist or a teacher, and they had to wear full rotra and tarha and totally like this is what you'd see like a nun, like a Catholic nun, and they were not allowed to. You know they were. It was. They had to behave above reproach or they would easily be, you know, dismissed. So it was very tough. So that was one thing. I wanted to be an interior designer. I am now an interior designer. So I got a job. This was funny.
Speaker 1:I was living in Saudi at the time and somebody told me we're going to recommend you to this prince and his wife. She just had a baby or she's having a baby and they need the nursery redesigned or designed. It's their first child. So I was all excited oh my God, I'm going first job in Saudi. So I told my husband I've got a job, I'm decorating a nursery, I'm going to be with the princess and he's like you're not going into their, their house, they're not, you're not allowed to go into their palace. You can't go. You can't go in there. So I said, why not he goes. Are you out of your mind? You, you're my wife. You can't go into some other man's house, you can't do the job. So I had to contact them and say sorry, my husband won't let me come. My husband won't let me come to your house. So that was the end of that job.
Speaker 1:Other cultural differences I'd studied art history. I had a master's degree in art history from college and graduate school. I wanted to open a gallery in Saudi. No art was allowed. You couldn't even smuggle it in I could. There was no art at the time. Now, from what I understand, that has eased up. But in 1980, there were no galleries, no art.
Speaker 1:What else? Cultural differences? The cheating, the cheating. Um, men cheat women and men cheat all over the world. We know that. Let's not be naive. But the idea that I have no right to be angry if my husband, if I catch that, he's, you know, been with another woman I don't know it just was. He was so far this way and I was so far that way, I, you know, I mean it was shocking to me. I didn't come from a family where my dad or my mom cheated or did anything like that. So I wasn't used to that. You know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Oh, by the way, I became a Muslim. I had to in order for King Thasal to approve the marriage. And why did he want me to do that? It wasn't that he wanted me to convert and to be a devout Muslim. I don't think that would have been something you could ask anyone to do. They'd have to do it of their own volition. That would have been something you could ask anyone to do. They'd have to do it of their own volition. But what he wanted in my conversion and I did it he wanted me to now have to adhere to Islamic law. He said there's too many girls marrying into Saudi Arabia, foreign girls that aren't Islam, aren't Muslims, and they don't understand Islam and they don't want to adhere to our laws. Our laws are the religious laws and I want every girl from now on, that foreigner has to become a Muslim.
Speaker 1:I, you know, my husband at the time my, I mean my fiance at the time was actually shocked because I was the first case that had to do that. Before that, the girls came and they were Christians most of them, and they could just keep their Christianity. But it was getting a little crazy. It was after the oil boom and I think there were a lot of girls wanting to marry a rich Saudi or something, I don't know. So I did become a Muslim First.
Speaker 1:My husband said. My fiance said you don't have to do it. I'm sorry, that's a little crazy. We didn't think they'd ask you that you don't have to do it. I can give you an apartment in London and you can live there and I'll come and visit you and I'm thinking I love him. And then he's going to go back home and his mom is going to match him up and he's.
Speaker 1:I can't stop. And now I'll be stuck in London living there, and I don't want to go. I don't want to do that. I'm not going to be like a kept woman. I kind of don't see myself that way. So I said no, no, no, no, no. Let me see how hard is it to become a Muslim? So I went to to do was learn the prayers and declare that I want to be a Muslim. And I learned the prayers and I demonstrated the prayers to the mullah and then he gave me a certificate, so now I was a Muslim.
Speaker 1:So the family was overjoyed. They were so overjoyed, they loved it, they were so happy. They took me tocca the ladies of the family took me not on a Hajj, but on a Umrah, which is any other time of the year, and I had a whole chapter about going to Mecca. It was the most extraordinary, powerful thing and spiritual experience I've ever had and it was really a very good experience.
Speaker 1:I wish I could have gone back a second time, and you know that I don't know. I found that embracing that culture, that religion, helped me understand the family more and my children obviously are Muslims and I understand. I'm very glad, I'm very happy for everything I did. The only thing I'm not happy about is that, you know, my husband and I divorced and this problem happened. I'm telling you, if, if, if he had not kidnapped the children and if he had agreed to be on good terms with me, I would be, I would still be friends with that. You know, with all of them I didn't object to anything they did ever, except take my kids and stop me from seeing my kids. That's it.
Speaker 2:Do you still identify as Muslim? Well, I haven't changed anything.
Speaker 1:I never practiced seriously. I mean, I did when I was there. I'm just sort of me. I'm sort of me, I'm a little bit mixed up. I have to say I've always been the kind of a person that and you know, I think a lot of people don't realize how similar all the religions are yeah, the monotheistic religions. We all have a day of worship Friday, saturday, sunday. We all have prayers. That's how we do it. We don't, you know, we don't burn people and sacrifice people. We have prayers. We have buildings or mosques or synagogues or churches that we go to. We have the Ten Commandments, we have Abraham, we have Moses, we have all those things. We have a whole history and Adam and Eve and the creation, and so it's actually not that different. It's just the nuances which are more cultural. I see them as being more cultural.
Speaker 2:So what does the future hold for Patricia in terms of promoting the story or publishing the story? Are you going to go on a tour in the Middle East, Like? What is your plan now?
Speaker 1:I never was invited. I would do almost anything to promote the book. I'm not against it. You'd be surprised how well. Maybe you wouldn't be surprised how tough it is to have people hear you and see you and listen to you Right now. Yes, I'm getting a lot of podcasts and whatever you know, I'm going to be in Florida weekly there. You know we're putting, but I don't think this is going to go on forever. I think if I don't keep pushing and promoting it, I think Jetta Bride will like slip into. I don't know, maybe I would get a series, a TV series.
Speaker 1:Everyone says that I didn't come up with that myself. If you look on Amazon, there's dozens of people that have reviewed the book and said I could see this as the most exciting podcast or movie. I think it's a little long to be a movie but a podcast maybe. I mean that might be the second wind. But I've got a life. I ride, I have kids, I have a. Maybe one day I'll be a grandmother. I've got so many things and my my publisher wants, wants me to write a second book. You know I can, I don't know. I may do all of the above or none of the above, but I don't think I'm going to continue to push this book unless it gets so much steam. I'm letting the world and the universe tell me what to do on Jedabride. If people are still interested and still want to talk to me about it, I will keep going. If people stop, then I will just say chapter's over.
Speaker 1:I wrote a book. It was a good run. Now I'm going back to my life to do something else, so I'm not particularly you know what I mean Like there's so many books. I'm looking at you and all the books behind you. There's gazillions of books. There was one day where on Amazon, I was the number one new release. Why? Because I had just launched the paperback version and I guess, with the number of people that were reading it and all the, I guess for some reason, it was number one out of all the new releases and it was number one in Middle East books. But now it isn't. It's like the ocean. You walk up on the shore, then you, you swept back into the ocean and you could end up on another continent. It's just a big world out there of books. So I don't know, I don't know. I'm going with the flow.
Speaker 2:That's right. So, patricia, this has been wonderful and thank you for joining me today. Is there anything you want to say before we conclude? I mean, people can find your book on Amazon, I guess, at the bookstore. Anything else you would like to conclude with A?
Speaker 1:few things Amazon, barnes, noble. We have the hard copy, we have the paperback, I have a Kindle version and we just launched this week the audio book, because a lot of people don't want to read, they want to do audio. So I have all of that available. And one other thing I'd like to say I was this is very important and interesting.
Speaker 1:I think, uh, there is an ngo, a charity called find my parent and I had contacted them years ago. They've asked me to be on the board because my book is exactly what they're trying to fix in this world. It's about child abduction. They are trying very hard to get better coordination between countries, returning parents or allowing visitation between one country and the other, and it doesn't just happen with Saudi Arabia, it happens with every country in the world practically.
Speaker 1:Japan has signed the the Hague Convention, but Japan protects a child. If the mother or the father, who's Japanese, brings their child back to Japan, the parent will not be able to be granted to see the child. And there's parents that their own children don't even speak English. They were abducted at a young age and they're in a foreign country and they can't even speak the language of their other parent. So it's not just women, it's not just men, it's not just Saudi, it's not just. It's the whole world problem. And so that's why I'm actually working with that now, with Find my Parent, and that may turn into even more than the book, but it sort of intertwines with my book, because my book gives a raw, real, honest, in-depth explanation of what it feels like to lose your child to international child abduction. So who knows what's going to happen? Yeah, yeah Well.
Speaker 2:I wish you the best of luck, patricia. International child abduction so who knows what's going to happen? Yeah Well, I wish you the best of luck, patricia, and thank you for joining me today and for anyone who's listening or watching. Thank you for joining us today for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha, and until we meet again, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Natasha, I enjoyed enormously. I enjoyed speaking to you. Thank you, take care.
Speaker 2:Thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. I'm your host, natasha Tynes. If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. Until next time. Happy reading, happy writing.
