He Walked Away at 12 Years… Because the “Safe Path” Was a Trap

He Walked Away After 12 Years… Here’s Why It Paid Off

Mike Goering on Sunk Cost, Multifamily, and Community-First Investing | ADPI Podcast

In this episode of the Active Duty Passive Income (ADPI) Podcast, Mike Goering shares the real story behind walking away from a 12-year military career… and why staying “safe” was actually costing him more.

We break down the sunk cost trap, how one rental became a forced wealth engine, and what changed once Mike finally closed his first deal.

This episode isn’t just about real estate.

It’s about decision-making, identity, and building something that actually matters.

 If you’re military (or transitioning) and feel stuck between “what you’ve invested” and “what you actually want”… this one hits.

 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• Why waiting until 20 years can cost you more than leaving early

• A simple breakdown of the sunk cost fallacy (and how it keeps people stuck)

• Renting vs buying near military bases, and the hidden opportunity cost

• How Mike transitioned from single-family to multifamily investing

• Why chasing every market kills momentum

• How closing ONE deal changes your deal flow forever

• Building a community-first investing strategy (not extraction)

00:00 – ADPI Hero Intro

01:30 – Mike’s background (12 years active duty)

03:10 – The “safe path” and why he left anyway

05:10 – You don’t have to wait until 20

05:35 – Sunk cost fallacy explained

07:05 – Why people stay stuck

10:45 – The mindset shift that changed everything

13:05 – Renting vs buying near bases

16:50 – First VA loan win

19:00 – Turning a home into a rental

22:00 – Discovering ADPI

24:40 – Struggling with focus early on

27:30 – Finding clarity in deal strategy

33:40 – Joining a deal team

37:50 – First deal breakdown (7-unit)

40:30 – Due diligence surprises

43:00 – Seller finance strategy

49:30 – Why closing changes everything

53:20 – “Own the town” vision

56:00 – Aligning purpose with investing

58:45 – Final advice

Connect With Mike Goering

Email: Mike@mountaingroundinv.com

Website: https://MountainGroundInv.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-goering

Transcript

Mike Goering 0:00

just my single house, the first one I bought. Almost by itself put me above the median end, like net worth for somebody my age, like that one house. I don't feel a connection to my iPhone because I own Apple stock. But when I own an apartment, I feel a connection. I'm making about 500 more in equity pay down. It's money I can't touch today, but it's money that's gonna be there in the future.

Speaker 0:24

The military taught us discipline. It taught us leadership, but it never taught us how to really build wealth and income. This is the Active Duty Passive Income podcast, and I'm your host, Marcion Sitch, a United States Marine, turned full-time real estate investor in educator. I'm bringing you the most successful military veteran and military spouse, real estate investors, entrepreneurs, and industry experts to break down exactly how they did it. So you can too.

Markian Sich 0:54

A DP, I guess what,

Mike Goering 0:55

I guess

Markian Sich 0:55

yet another hero episode. And, um, if you've been listening, uh, lately, you've probably noticed that we've been bringing on some of our, I I I, I don't even wanna call it students because you guys have outshined everything I've done and it's incredible and I, and I, and we're bringing on what we loving call our heroes, right? The, the, those that are coming back to pay it forward and teach future generations of military entrepreneurs and real estate investors. And I, I, I can't wait to really dive into this story because honestly, Mike, I feel like I know you a little bit, even maybe less than I'd like to. Um, you're, you're, you're, you're, um. You're not as, like, you haven't been here since maybe like Tim, uh, crams for example, or Seneca, but you're also not new and you've already provided a ton of feedback, a ton of improvement to how we teach the military community. So I'm just excited to get into your story. I wanna know what made Mike, Mike, and, um, so welcome aboard y'all. If you're listening, like you're in for a treat, we're gonna talk about really somebody's journey, right? So if you're, if you're looking to resonate or you're looking to see if this is for you, I think one of the best things you can do is listen to another person's journey and see how they did what they did. So, welcome aboard. Please kind of like do your own little introduction. Let give us a 32nd snapshot and we're gonna dive right into your story, man. Thank you for coming.

Mike Goering 2:18

That was a very gracious, uh, introduction. I appreciate that. Thanks.

Markian Sich 2:22

Absolutely.

Mike Goering 2:23

you know, long time listener, first time caller. It's, I'm pumped to be here. Uh, no. So, so my background, um, I grew up in Anchorage, Alaska. Um, went to college. That's the thing that you're supposed to do if you, you know, read the rule book of American Society. So I went off to college, wasn't really sure how to pay for it, so I was like, my brother had done the ROTC route and gotten a full scholarship. So I was like, well, why not do that too? Uh, so I did Army ROTC through college. Uh, commissioned as a quartermaster officer in the Army, which then becomes a logistics officer. Um, I think the original plan was to kind of do four years and figure out my life, um, and then kind of go from there. Ended up doing 12 years, uh, active duty, moved kind of all around the country, um, ended up actually getting stationed in southeastern Idaho. And then that's when I kind of decided to get out. And so, so now I'm here collective master's degrees using the GI Bill, uh, as part of my transition plan. Uh, so yeah. Yeah. So I got an MBA last year or two years ago now. And then, uh, I'll do a, a Master's of public administration graduate this May.

Markian Sich 3:32

Cool man.

Mike Goering 3:33

into, we didn't talk about that before the call, but we could dive into kind of why I'm doing that and how that nests with real estate and some of the

Markian Sich 3:40

Absolutely. Uh,

Mike Goering 3:41

I'm bringing in.

Markian Sich 3:43

sounds very unique in general Right. Of, of a, of a path, uh, non-standard. So in and did you say, did I hear this right? Just for all the listeners there? You got out after 12 years.

Mike Goering 3:53

Yeah, so I, I hit, uh, for, I think the Marines are the same way. I hit oh four, so major. Um, and was in A-R-O-T-C assignment. We'll talk about this in a little bit. My boss was four hours away. I ha I was the senior military officer for about 200 square miles. So you wanna talk about autonomy? Like I had it and it was glorious. Um, and really

Markian Sich 4:16

Wow.

Mike Goering 4:17

and impact students' lives, it was amazing. Um, and so I, I did every deferment I could to stay here as long as I could to get to 12 years. And then I was really knocking on the door of going to ILE and then I was gonna go back to the force of be like an XO or a, a support officer, S four, all those kinds of things. And I was like, that's really just not the life I want. Like, and that's

Markian Sich 4:40

Mm-hmm.

Mike Goering 4:41

with my personal goals especially. Um, and so 12 years I. It would've been 10 if I hadn't had that Kush assignment. Right?

Markian Sich 4:49

I gotcha. No, it's just, it's funny'cause I think, uh, 12 is what I typically hear, you know, when I was trying to figure out like, what am I gonna do when I grow up? Everybody says like, oh dude, well if you hit 12, like you might as well do 20. And it's like, you know, I remember like Tim Kelly, I think he did 15 and he got out like it's, it's, it's a, or maybe even 17 years.

Mike Goering 5:06

Yeah, he

Markian Sich 5:07

Yeah. And so it's like, it's like this, um, I dunno. I did eight and a half active and another three in the reserves. So like. I guess, I don't know. Uh, the reserve math always confused me, but like, it, it, it, it, I, I guess a part of my, like, you know, undercover ulterior motive mission to, uh, A DPI and the podcast is like, um, you don't have to wait till 20 years to do what you wanna do. That being said, it is a phenomenal gig, like getting a you, you know, a paycheck for the rest of your life, like, you know, um, not dogging on it. I'm just saying like, I, I kind of wanna just give people permission to just think outside the box. When I hear other people that have done that, I'm like, Hey, let me highlight that. Okay. So, um, that's really cool. And, uh, okay, so, so what's that?

Mike Goering 5:56

I was gonna say tons of, uh, analysis on sunk cost fallacy and then opportunity cost of my thirties. Like really, that was, were the two big things I ended up having to look at was like, just because I've done 12 years doesn't mean that's gonna continue to be the right decision for me in the future. And like really just weighing that as a sum cost and just moving on. And then really the opportunity costs in my thirties, like I don't get those back. Um,

Markian Sich 6:20

Dude, can you, can you explain sun cost? Can you explain sunk cost to somebody? Like, like, like we're about to get into your story, but that's a huge, I learned about that when I was in high school. There was one economics professor, I don't remember anything from that class. He gave us the answers to the tests. I was like, this is just, this is absolute a waste of everybody's time. But there's one thing he, he gave me like some, some analogy for sunk cost. I can't even remember it. And I was like, oh my God. Like, it became like a tenet of how I make life decisions, you know? So tell me, how do you, how do you think I've sunk cost?

Mike Goering 6:54

let's, let's use a. real estate analogy since I guess this is a

Markian Sich 6:57

Yeah,

Mike Goering 6:57

kind of a

Markian Sich 6:58

yeah, sure, sure. Kind of

Mike Goering 7:01

At least we

Markian Sich 7:01

business, military, real estate. yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Goering 7:05

Uh, um, so like due diligence is one I classically think of, right? And especially in a multi-family world, we're talking pretty significant earnest money checks. You spend a lot of money on lawyers and your inspections and all of that. Well, sunk cost basically says that all of those things leading up to close are already committed funds, right? And. When we make a decision to continue forward and actually close on the property, we need to look as if those costs are fully lost, whether or not, and only look towards the future. So if it's a deal that's gonna lose us money and we already have 50 grand into it, we should still leave that deal, even though we're gonna lose 50 grand'cause it's gonna continue to lose money. Right.

Markian Sich 7:46

If it's a bad deal, it's a bad deal.

Mike Goering 7:48

yeah, looking at only the future and not looking at the past because just because you've lost money in the past doesn't mean you should keep doing the thing. Right. And so

Markian Sich 7:57

Dude that they, but that's, yeah. Let me foot stop that just because, well, I mean, here's a completely different analogy, right? Because I, I started applying this not only to business is was, um, I can't remember what it was. I think it was like a vacation we were doing and we already bought tickets or whatever to a thing,

Mike Goering 8:15

Yeah.

Markian Sich 8:15

and then another opportunity presented itself to do a more fun thing and. I think I, I don't know, wanna drag my parents or like the older generation in it, but I don't know what it is. But it seems to me like a lot of people that I, uh, that are maybe, uh, especially'cause I come from, come from Ukraine and like there's some all sorts of weird philosophical things of like how life should be from the Soviet Union, where they're like, well, you already pay for it, so you must do the thing that you already paid for. Even if the other thing is better. And even if like, and I'm just like, wait a second. Like when I, when I heard sunk cost, I was like, it gave, it gave me freedom to be like, just because I already spent$500 on that ticket, but there's this incredible opportunity that yes, maybe I have to pay another$500 and maybe I don't even care about my but the money. But like, I, I, I let go of that anchor. I was like, no, I can still make the better choice. Don't let a past choice affect future opportunities because, I mean, there's so many more analogies, but like. Wow. That really freed up my, my, my mental thinking. And I find myself like, like almost jumping at people be like, no. Like, they'll be like, well, I already paid for it. Like, no stop. Is this better? If it is, forget what you paid for. You know, like, I, like,

Mike Goering 9:32

Yeah.

Markian Sich 9:33

like really intense about it. Like, I, like this is a huge part of my, my way of living life.

Mike Goering 9:38

is such a mental trap to have to get through. I could tell you kind of start to click it and then you still catch yourself in it and you're like, well, this, I'm doing it again.

Markian Sich 9:47

Yeah. Yeah. You, well, I think, I think it's just people hate spending money on something that they're not gonna use. I mean, I, I get it. I get it. But also, like, it might not be what's best for you, but, um, anyway. Yeah. So, so you,

Mike Goering 10:00

Yeah. About changing your mind and accepting that you made a mistake. Like, but hey, we

Markian Sich 10:06

yeah. Uh, well, I mean, uh, I think that's also one of the biggest things about. And I think that's why you brought it up in a sense is so like, I, I always talk about like, I had to change my identity multiple times. And I think when you change who you are, um, it doesn't mean that you're like throwing the past away. It means you're like, it's, it's the next evolution. You, you kind of like standing on the shoulders of giants, you know? Like that. What was that an, a Lincoln quote, right? Like, like it's it's in your own life too. You, I'm, I'm standing on what I used to be. So like, I, I grew up a Ukrainian kid had to completely change every, like I had a culture shock, you know, became an American kid in high school. I got thrown into high school, like I had a leather jacket on and soccer hair people, believe it or not, people made fun of me. And then it was like, then it was like, well instead of being like a frat star, I'm gonna go go. The Naval Academy. That was a culture shock. Again, I didn't even know the difference between officer and enlisted. And then it was like I, this whole time I thought I was gonna be in the Navy and then, uh, ended up going into the Marine Corps. And then that was a culture shock too. And then I was like, you know what, maybe this Marine Corps thing isn't a career for me. So I started becoming an entrepreneur. It's just like this reinventing yourself. You had, I had to be comfortable with like, shedding that skin, so to speak, every single time. Um, so maybe, maybe that's a good segue into your story. Like was there a shedding moment where you're like, I think, um, I don't know the, the past two heroes both described like these burning the boats moments where they just went all in'cause they knew that would force them to, to actually commit to a plan, um, even if it was risky. Right. Was was, was there a moment where you, like something clicked?

Mike Goering 11:51

So, I mean, I hate to, just like every real estate podcast guest ever talks about like, is the Rich Dad, poor Dad? Like that was kind of. You know, it, learning that I can step outside the system, and I think that really changed the perspective as I was getting ready to leave the military was, was I can take a little more control of my own fate. I, what did I see? I saw a quote the other day. Let's keep talking and I'll look it up.

Markian Sich 12:19

Yeah. And well, you know about, about No, you're fine. And about the, when you find it, let me know, but what's that? You found it?

Mike Goering 12:26

yeah. The best way to predict the future is to create it.

Markian Sich 12:29

Ah, dude, love that. I say that. I actually, I say something similar, uh uh, and on, on our week one, onboarding calls for the cohorts. I tell'em the greatest predictor of your future success is today's success, because I'm like, nobody. Everybody like stares up at this 300 unit apartment complex, they wanna buy in downtown Indianapolis or something. But, but they don't focus sometimes it just like, well what do you have to do today? Right. Crush that. Like, don't trip and fall on the way.'cause you're just staring at that vision a mile away. Like, okay, well maybe call three brokers today. Maybe try to go get a 10 unit, you know, crush that first, build that momentum. But yeah. Um, love that. You got, you gotta create your future.

Mike Goering 13:09

a work in progress on a lot of that. Um, but that's kind of where I started that whole shift. Um, was

Markian Sich 13:15

Was reading the book,

Mike Goering 13:16

and

Markian Sich 13:17

the purple Bible,

Mike Goering 13:19

and that's evolved into like, like I've been un well unemployed for two years now since I got out. Uh, and so I do this and then I've been teaching a little bit part-time at the local university and then going to grad school at the same time. Yes, I'm somehow teaching and being a student at the same time. Um, like that's just given

Markian Sich 13:38

it's like.

Mike Goering 13:39

to kind of find myself and then like I. that I don't have to conform to the system to be successful has given me that kind of leeway to have those discussions with my parents that are a little more traditional and, and just kind of be like, Hey, I don't have to follow the system rules. And it especially like if I do follow the system, I'm gonna get system outcomes, right? I'm gonna, if I, if I'm average, I'm gonna get average outcomes. And so

Markian Sich 14:02

Hmm. Yeah, it's like if you look at anybody meaningful, did, were they normal? Like anybody that had a massive impact on history on the world, uh, I mean it, let's call it what it is, they're probably a little bit crazy. They probably stepped outside the system to a certain degree. Uh, they did something probably novel, maybe not greatly novel, but something not, not the common path. Right. Um, I will say there, there are clues though, with certain common paths, right? Like, um, I keep bringing up the statistic probably at nauseum, but I, I, I can't. Underscored enough. Like it, it, it's, it's, it's a correlation. It's not causation, right? Like, it's not a guarantee, but like on average at every, I don't care what, what kind of money you make, what income level you're at, at every single income level, you're gonna be 40 times. Well, like on average, you'll, uh, people are 40 times wealthier than those who rent. You know, if you own a home, and I'm just like. That, that to me is a clue as, as Rod Cleef would say, like that is like certain things you should really like, okay, well what, what can I do to make that happen? And I just feel like the military has this insane, unfair advantage of buying a house for zero out of pocket. And I don't mean like only zero down, like if you have a good loan officer and a good agent, which we're really big on right now at A DPI is to ensuring that they can both team up and help you negotiate and help get a good, like a actual, like broker, a VA loan for you that you can walk away with your earnest money deposit check at the closing table. I mean, it won't happen every time, but if that's like the lens through which you're looking at, you're gonna get pretty close to that. And I just think the military has an incredible unfair advantage like you and, and, and it's crazy to me that like, we don't talk about, I don't think the VA loan is a bigger deal than it is at large. I mean, I don't know. When you were for your 12 years, was that something that you feel like was underscored at all? Or, or just, or, or maybe the opposite.

Mike Goering 16:03

Well, I think you've hit this song pass podcast, like it's, we just don't talk about money. Um, like, and

Markian Sich 16:09

True.

Mike Goering 16:10

that's, just a no no topic. And, and we, we kind of avoid that, that, I mean, you're telling my story and, and I think one of the things I think is interesting, um, is I'll, I'll Google like average net worth, um,

Markian Sich 16:21

Yeah.

Mike Goering 16:22

to kind of see like, hey,

Markian Sich 16:23

I

Mike Goering 16:23

is that for everybody? Um, especially with the kind of, in social sciences, so I look at incoming quality and stuff in class. And average net worth for someone my age is about 300,000 or so. That's what it takes to get into the top 10% so. No, that's average or median.

Markian Sich 16:40

So sorry. I

Mike Goering 16:41

top, top 10% is like 800,000 net worth

Markian Sich 16:44

Okay.

Mike Goering 16:44

for somebody our age. Um, and I was looking at that and I was like, just my single house, the first one I bought. Almost by itself put me above the median end, like net worth for somebody my age, like that one house. And like that was really, that's really what, and maybe we go into my story'cause that's,

Markian Sich 17:04

Yeah. Yeah, go for it.

Mike Goering 17:05

for real estate. Yeah. Okay. So kind of going from the beginning, um, I commissioned in the end of 2012, um, and then went to Fort Hood, Texas, which was a interesting first duty station to have. Um, and at the time it was like, we're like, at that time it got into 2013. At that time everybody was deploying. And so I kind of showed up with the mindset that I was gonna be gone half the time. And so I was like, I'll just rent because I'm gonna be transient. And I think there was a little fear there about buying probably, you know, um, so I didn't buy and I ended up staying there for four years. And I deployed once, like right at the real, very end. And I remember like my friend had bought a house for foreclosure at like 90,000. Uh, central Texas was like stupid, affordable at the time I kind of did the quick math and I was like, if I had paid everything I had paid in rent, I would've been able to pay off a house in my time there. And so,

Markian Sich 18:01

Dude, isn't that, isn't that like gut wrenching? You're like damnit.

Mike Goering 18:05

so. you, that was definitely like an oops moment and like, I didn't know anything. I just had some like basic financial foundations to like, sort of like have that, that quick conversation in my head. So I went, you know, off to captain's career course that was only there for six months. So I kind of was like, I'll just rant and be fine.

Markian Sich 18:21

Sure, sure.

Mike Goering 18:22

gonna make that mistake anymore. And so when I moved to Fort Bragg, and this is a lesson on what not to do, but that real estate's also forgiving. Uh, 2018, my market research was that I had some buddies there that told me it was a cool town and I should buy a house there, and that's all I did, right? Um, I ended up buying a house in Southern Pines, just outside the backside of Fort Bragg. I assumed next to an army base would be safe. Um, that's, and for those that don't know Fort Bragg, that's the Gulf community area. It's right next to Pinehurst where the US open comes. And so that's typically where the operators and the officers live. Um, little more expensive in that house. You're right about great loan officers. I ended up getting paid at the closing table, zero money down. And so, you know, fast forward like five years later, I'm leaving. I put that thing up for rent. I'm cash flowing like crazy'cause like the housing prices almost doubled while I was there.

Markian Sich 19:21

Dang dude.

Mike Goering 19:22

Yeah. And so like, I didn't know what I was doing, but just having lived there long enough, you know, I got the grace of the market, um, to make up for that. And so, you know, by the time I was done, I was cashflow and about 500 after everything else. Um, and then I, I moved out. Um. you know, I've had Brenner paying my, my mortgage for the last couple years. That was fantastic. And I just kind of like landed on that. Hadn't really even thought about real estate investing as a thing. So then I got out to Idaho, I decided to rent out here'cause it was two, like 21. Um, and if you know anything about Idaho, 2020 to 21 Idaho exploded. So it was an affordable market to get into. and I didn't really know the town, so I did a little more market research, learned a little more about the town. After a year, I got tired of somebody else decide how much money I had to pay for rent. Um, if that makes sense. So I, I ended that lease and I bought a house. Um, I decided to do a live-in flip because that was the only way to make it work. I ended up

Markian Sich 20:25

Eric style.

Mike Goering 20:26

off of, I ended up buying about a month off of peak for Idaho housing. Um, so I just missed the most expensive opportunities. Um, anyhow, and then I poured about 50 grand in working on this house, um, around that same time. Um, so as a assistant professor of military science at Idaho State, my boss was out in Boise, and so that's about three and a half hours away from us. And so he would've to come out to do site visits and one day he was, you know, so he is, if you've been to Idaho, that's the boring part of Idaho. It's just like driving through high desert. It's a horribly boring drive. So he would listen to podcasts on his way across to do a visit, one day just slipped into conversation. He's like, Hey man, I'm listening to this podcast. It's called a, uh, a DPI. He's like, you should check it out. And I was like, okay. And so I like wrote it down and just kind of gave it no thought. Uh, I think I was driving down to Salt Lake or something like a couple weeks later and I like just put it on and, and like that was kind of where the education. I had started to educate myself just in life, but that's really where the focus to real estate came. Um, was just that offhanded comment that he made. Uh, and I've

Markian Sich 21:35

So cool.

Mike Goering 21:36

like, Hey, do you have, do you have any idea like what that little old comment made? Like, do you even remember that? And he was like, no. Um,

Markian Sich 21:43

Dude,

Mike Goering 21:45

right.

Markian Sich 21:46

it is funny that he doesn't remember that and meanwhile you're like, dude, that was like a big deal for me.

Mike Goering 21:51

Right. And since, you know, I love the lesson from that, like we could change each other's lives without even knowing it. Like, just, just by being there and, and, and trying to add value everywhere we go. Um, so that's, that's kind of where I got into the real estate. So then I did this, this house is gonna actually end up doing alright, even though I bought it the worst time just'cause of the value add proposition I have, which is, then about a year later with, um, I started, you know, listening to podcasts, I got a little more familiar with the commercial real estate stuff. Um, and as much as I love flipping. I loved flipping this house. I didn't see that as scalable. Right. And so then that's when I kind of started to look at, if I want to increase my impact, which is a big part of kind of who I am, then I need to do bigger scale. Um, and so I'm in a small town, you do a, you know, a 30 unit apartment renovation that's, that's like noticeable across the whole community. Um, like that's, that's talked about in a town this size. And so I was like, that's, that's really the direction to go. And I had thought that I needed to be accredited and all of that to get into commercial. And then I had the, you know, the onboarding calls and I was like, oh, like I just need to know what I'm doing. Um, that was kind of an eye-opener. And then I kind of pivoted over and did the cohort and went through, uh, the, the MMA. And that was the end of 23.

Markian Sich 23:14

Okay, so you, so you bought one house, started renting that out. Five, I mean, 500 bucks a month cashflow after living in a house. Like, that's a dream. That's a great deal, right? Obviously, like you said, timing the market, but, you know, I don't know, fortune favors the bold, right? Like you actually bought a house. A lot of people would've just rented. So, um, you know, you, you keep, you keep trying to, trying to hit that ball, you're gonna hit it eventually and then, um, and then you start wanting to make a bigger impact. And let me actually rewind. You said something like, it's just kind of in passing. You have your renters paying off your home. We're about to get into the commercial stuff, but like. Uh, that to me, I, I don't know if I, like, if I'm ever explaining it right, I don't, I started calling it a reverse savings account, but I don't know that people understand how impactful that is. And it really kind of like blew my mind when I realized, oh, that's why like when you get to a certain point where like, um, a lot of the like ultra wealthy, right? They don't buy real estate for necessarily the cash flow. Like they're okay with like, which is weird when you get into real estate, you absolutely, that is the focus, right? That's the economic engine. You focus on that. But later on they focus on just two things, appreciation and principle pay down. All they want is it's like this diverging equity growth, right? Like you, you like, it's growing in value, but then also somebody's paying off essentially, uh, a savings account for you. Right. It, it, it, it, it actually has, that is what equity is. It has that value and somebody's giving it to you every single month. A little more, a little more, a little more. So you're growing your wealth in your sleep in two different directions that equity's growing in two different directions. Right? Like, imagine a number line, it's just, it's just growing like this, right? Uh, not just on one side. And that to me, I mean, yes, the tax benefits are great. Yes, the cash flow is great. Yes. All, all the things. But when you, when you have a handful of these and there's other people putting money into you, you know, basically contributing to your retirement, right? They're like paying into a TSP on your behalf, essentially. That to me is like, oh, that is, that's the grail right there. That's the beauty of this. And it's secure because everybody will always need a place to live. Yes, there's the risks and all that kind of stuff. And then, and then now you're talking about commercial, right? It's like, okay, now that, now it's happening at scale. I remember we refinanced one of my properties and like pulled almost a million bucks out. It was like 800 something thousand dollars tax re and it was like, I think almost 200 grand of that was just our tenants paying off the loan. I'm like, you like what? You know, mind boggling. So anyway, I just, I just couldn't help but, but bring that up. Do you, I mean, is that the first thing that like attracted you to real estate or were you more of a cashflow person? Like what was the thing that was like, because there's so many things about real estate, it's like a multi-layered cake

Mike Goering 26:16

Initially you're giving me way too much credit. It was just, that's, that was, I was still on the American dream track, that like

Markian Sich 26:23

own a home,

Mike Goering 26:24

college,

Markian Sich 26:25

know?

Mike Goering 26:25

a job, you own a

Markian Sich 26:26

Right, right, right, right. Right.

Mike Goering 26:28

we started. And then, then like certainly like,'cause I have a background in like my undergrad was business and then I got an MBA later. Like I, I know how to work some numbers and so, you know, I started to see that when I went to rent it was like, oh, like that$500 cashflow. It's got a great rate on it.'cause I refinanced in 2020. Um, that's about half of what I make a month. I'm making about 500 more in equity pay down. Um. So you're like, alright, like I'm, I'm growing my net worth, but I, I think of it as a forced savings account. It's money I can't touch today, but it's money that's gonna be there in the future. And so you don't really have a choice. It's gotta go into savings and it's gonna sit there and continue to grow. And, and I.

Markian Sich 27:12

And, and that's probably the unsung benefit of real estate, is that, um, it is forced to a certain degree.'cause it's not like the stock market where it's not like a savings account where you can just liquidate and, and buy something like impulse buy. Like, oh, look at that new Pokemon card, or whatever. Right? Like, I'm just kidding, but like, you can't do that. Real estate is, is a slow moving thing. You wanna sell a house, you gotta go talk to a real estate agent, you gotta go, you know, maybe put it on the market. Uh, you know, you got, you're gonna get like a, you know, offers coming in, you go back and forth. Like it takes maybe 60, 90 days to sell a house. And so you're, you're, you really have to like. Sit down, make a big, it's a big life decision to sell it. It's not just a, you know, I tap something on my phone and I make an impulse bad decision, and I'm like, oh, I shouldn't have sold that. You know that, that Bitcoin or whatever. Right.

Mike Goering 27:59

Yeah,

Markian Sich 28:00

um,

Mike Goering 28:01

with Ken. you were talking with Ken, you guys talked about like putting things on a conveyor belt and like, you don't touch it and then it comes off as equity in the end. Um, it was one of your previous guests,

Markian Sich 28:14

maybe, maybe, maybe. Yeah.

Mike Goering 28:15

that was a really cool analogy that like, you're, you're kind of just setting your assets on this conveyor belt and

Markian Sich 28:21

Yeah. I love that.

Mike Goering 28:22

that's, that's like a five year cycle, but like you're just putting'em on there and like, you don't have to worry about the temptations to dip into the equity. You just put it there and you know that you're gonna get the check in the future. Um, and that,

Markian Sich 28:35

I love that.

Mike Goering 28:35

me is like, because I'm not maybe the most disciplined. So it's about, um, parameters around,

Markian Sich 28:41

Same, same. No, I know myself, I'm like, I. Like I, I might, I don't know, buy a plane ticket some for some vacation. Like, I, I, I, it's literally, and, and that's what I love. It's, it's like a secret handshake. It's, it's like an un uh, untold agreement or contract. I have, I have with real estate. It was like, I'm gonna continue investing in real estate, but you're gonna be my nest egg. I was like, I was like, you just keep growing so that I can, like, I'm gonna be very honest to all the listeners. Like, I'm not a huge saver. So like, and I know that about myself. And so, like, to me, real estate is a beautiful agreement. Like, it's like this beautiful forced saving, you know, uh, that is building my nest egg without me having to build a nest egg, so to speak, in my bank accounts as, as much. Right. Uh, that doesn't mean I, I don't.

Mike Goering 29:32

yeah. It's tangible, which I think is another really interesting thing, especially like when we get into capital raising, like it's a tangible asset. Um, and I think, you know, I, I would make the joke like, you're not gonna like. Feel like you own a part of this because you have Apple stock, right? I'm showing my phone,

Markian Sich 29:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Goering 29:51

I don't feel a connection to my iPhone because I own Apple stock. But when I own an apartment, I feel a connection. Like

Markian Sich 29:58

Mm-hmm.

Mike Goering 29:58

I probably have a greater ownership share as a syndication, but like you have a connection to that in a different way because it's a tangible thing. It's not a, a number on a screen. Um, and I think that helps me a lot to seeing tangible, like, this thing

Markian Sich 30:13

Hmm.

Mike Goering 30:13

and it's growing in value. And I'm like, then you add the impacting tenant's lives and all that too. Um, it just makes it much more rewarding to put my stuff, my money into that, and then just like letting it do its thing. Um, stocks

Markian Sich 30:28

very virtual world,

Mike Goering 30:30

Yeah.

Markian Sich 30:31

right? In a very virtual, sorry, I keep cutting you off. Uh,

Mike Goering 30:36

No, you're good.

Markian Sich 30:37

but, but it, it's. You're talking about stocks on the screen, but like, our lives are so much in the screen now, right? It's like everything's remote, everything's virtual. Uh, it trust is massively degraded as a result. But here you have this, like, this building built out of bricks potentially, and houses dozens of families. Like, you know, that's a real thing. They need a place to live. It exists on this earth. It's not some AI chatbot or crypto somewhere in the cloud, right? It is a real thing. And I don't care what happens with our currency. Maybe they'll pay me in Bitcoin someday, but rent's gonna be due between the first and the fifth. You know what I mean? So I don't care. I don't, you can pay me in any currency you want in the future. I, to me, real estate is a currency, right? If you think about it. Anyways, I'm not gonna get into that. So, okay. Back to your story. So what was the, the commercial flip like or. The, the venture, like what was, what was, what got you into that? Like ultimately what was the first deal or how, how do you wanna describe that situation?

Mike Goering 31:42

Yeah. So there's some lessons that be learned here. So we'll, we'll share those. So

Markian Sich 31:48

For sure.

Mike Goering 31:49

the, yeah, right. Uh, graduated the cohort at the end of 23.

Markian Sich 31:56

Okay.

Mike Goering 31:56

know, we, we, you guys dropped me off into 24, right? And 24 wasn't a great year for, for like learning commercial real estate. Um, a little bit tight on some of the margins there. Really high buyer expectations, lot of with mortgage rates and things like that, that just made it. A

Markian Sich 32:14

Terrible year.

Mike Goering 32:15

year.

Markian Sich 32:15

Terrible year.

Mike Goering 32:16

Low transaction year we're not. Right. And

Markian Sich 32:20

Yeah.

Mike Goering 32:20

that was part of it, but part of it was, you know, we left the cohort and we'd done a spinoff accountability group. Um, and so like we had the core team kind of meeting and we did what, uh, basically I think every student does is we all looked in our own backyards and we're like, we started looking for deals. And there was, that's a great starting point. And so we know had a guy outside of Indianapolis that was like, Hey, like this is a great metro. It is. And I think you invest out there like great metro, um. Then we had a guy in Virginia, there's some good stuff in Virginia, guy in California. We ignored him. Uh, then, you know, I'm in Idaho and so, and I had been really quiet about Idaho because it's a small town. There's not a lot of transactions where I'm at. and so we kind of were just floating all over the place. Um, and we looked at a few things here and there, but, you know, I don't get excited about the Midwest. I, I fully understand why people invest there. It's a great market, really good fundamentals. It's just not where I would ever wanna live. And so I find it hard to get passionate about living there or like buying properties there. Right? And that was something I started to learn was that I needed to be passionate about the project

Markian Sich 33:28

Right.

Mike Goering 33:28

a capital raiser and as a deal lead to, to get through those tough days and to like actually invest in that. Um, and just a quick plug for capital raising, like passion brings people. And so if you're passionate about your project, people will just sign up to, to commit to your deal to help invest with

Markian Sich 33:45

It is almost that magical, isn't it? Like it, it, it's, it's kind of weird, like they sense the conviction in your tone, in your demeanor. If you're passionate, like I, I, I, I feel you.

Mike Goering 33:59

Yeah. So I, that lesson took me way too long to learn. And so I started, you know, thinking more with my gut and then, then not just looking at numbers, because if you look at numbers, there's opportunity everywhere. But like, we even looked at tons of different asset classes. And for me, people are, what makes this business fun is like impacting tenants lives. And so, you know, triple net leases, single or self storage, um, great, great asset classes, but there's, they're kind of set it and forget it, automate your systems and see a check every month, which I don't

Markian Sich 34:32

Yeah.

Mike Goering 34:32

for loving,

Markian Sich 34:33

Yeah.

Mike Goering 34:34

that's

Markian Sich 34:35

It kind of lacks the purpose behind it, right? Like it kind of lacks the mission behind it. Right. Okay.

Mike Goering 34:40

I'm not throwing shade at anybody that does that. Those are

Markian Sich 34:43

I got it.

Mike Goering 34:44

They're just not my assets. Right. And so that whole, like, I think it ended up being almost 18 months, you know, was really some misguided adventures that finally found me passion in an asset class. And then more importantly like in a market. And so I've really settled on kind of, I don't Salt Lake's really competitive. It's about two and a half hours from me. But I like the north of Salt Lake up to where I live. Pocatello, um, along the I 15 corridor, right? Just massive growth geography tells us where the path of progress is gonna be.'cause you can't build on top of a mountain, um, or, uh. It's four service lines, so you can't build there. I'm sure people would try. Uh, so that was kind of when I started to focus on that and get passionate about my market. Um, and that's where I integrated in. Like, I love skiing, I love mountain biking, like I love the

Markian Sich 35:35

Right.

Mike Goering 35:36

And so,

Markian Sich 35:37

Yeah, man.

Mike Goering 35:37

why I love this space is because my tenants are also people that love those things. And so I can get really excited about living in the Intermountain West because I live here and I, I do all the things that make me, you know, this place. And so I'm really passionate about growing the communities here.'cause it, it's my people, right. Um, and you

Markian Sich 36:00

I gotcha.

Mike Goering 36:01

Yeah.

Markian Sich 36:03

Yeah. And, and

Mike Goering 36:04

of

Markian Sich 36:06

d is that where you guys invested, like your team, your first deal? Or where'd you, where'd you guys,

Mike Goering 36:10

Yeah. yeah, yeah, First deal. So, um, I. I think it was, well we called it a DP icon now, the military recon, uh,

Markian Sich 36:19

I.

Mike Goering 36:19

Denver two years ago. Um, I love conferences. One of the things I love the most is the drive home from conferences, um, is like just that, like putting it all together. And I think for that one I had flown outta Salt Lake, so I had like a two and a half hour drive after the, Well anyway, so I'm driving home from the airport and I'm just kind of like about action. We talked a lot about, um. Didn't say it, but who, not how, like the, the team, like, you don't need to be great at everything. You need to have a team that's great at everything. and I had been like kind of holding myself back because there were things I didn't know still that weren't inside of my space. Um, but I was just like, well, I don't know, asset management. So like, I'm not ready to do this. Um, but it's like, I have a guy that does that now. Right? And so it was like kind of liberating to have that little moment where it was like, this is a team effort and I just need to be good at what I need to do. Um, I'd had that and then I kind of was just like, I, you know, it's been over a year and I haven't moved forward tangibly yet. In hindsight, I, I grew a ton and learned and met a ton of people. That made it way easier once I started actually tangibly moving forward. Um,

Markian Sich 37:31

It is kinda like a building.

Mike Goering 37:32

progress.

Markian Sich 37:33

Yeah, it's like you don't see the building until like, until it pops up over the surface.'cause meanwhile you're like building like the foundation, it's all under the ground, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, you know, like a year later you start seeing the Yeah, I hear you.

Mike Goering 37:45

Yeah. absolutely. Right. And so I left that and I had talked with somebody that's local, um, and he had offered a, like, he was like, Hey, I'm always looking for people to help raise money for my deals. And I was like, and at the time I was like, I'm not a capital raiser. Um, like I'm a natural introvert. So like, I was like, I, that's not my thing. I don't wanna do that. And I just kind of, well actually Anthony Peters, he's one of the heroes now too. We had had a conversation at a DP icon and he was like, Hey, I think he'd be really good at capital raising. I, I think he was selfishly looking'cause he was looking for capital raises too. But, but like, he had said that to me, another one of those like weird offhanded things. I haven't talked to him, but I bet he doesn't remember saying that too. Uh, but like that really kind of reframed it. I was like, well I, I should just like let go of that limiting belief and just go try. Um,

Markian Sich 38:33

Right. Right.

Mike Goering 38:35

I. had, I had talked to a, a local guy here and he was like, Hey, I'm always looking for people. So I, I was like, I was at that moment in my car where I was like, I haven't taken action. I'm letting all these, I don't knows, or the team get in my way and I'm telling myself I can't do something. I was just like, so a couple days later I reached out to him. I was like, Hey, like I'd be interested in, you know, raising money for you. I think it was like two weeks later I was on a deal with him. Um, like he would just, it was just perfect timing, right? And so, you know, then I raised, you know, did the coup with him, um, and you know, raised some money for a deal down in uh, north Salt Lake area. Absolutely amazing deal. Um, and yeah, so at that, that was just kind of like got my foot in the door. And I think that's a great way to get started.'cause I got to sit inside all his meetings and look at all his products and see how he's doing things. And then kind of at the same time we started talking with this broker for a little seven unit where I live. Um,

Markian Sich 39:35

Oh yeah.

Mike Goering 39:36

found, yeah, I still hadn't found like that, um, that concept of like, once you are focused, like other people will join you, um, if you're really clear on what you want. so I still wasn't in that for my market. Um, but saw it, I brought it to the team. I was like, Hey, this looks like it's got something. It's overpriced, but like, let's, let's just get a rep. And that was like literally our conversation was like, we're just gonna do this and get a rep. Going through to the LOI, you're like, we'll probably learn something new. Probably won't close. fine. you know, it's, it's a classic patience game. We reached out, the numbers didn't work. It was a mom and pop, so really messy books. Um, and we were like, Hey, uh, we could probably make something work with seller finance. And they were like, we're not interested in that. We're like, cool. Um, good luck. Hopefully you find a buyer. Three weeks later, broker reaches out and he's like, Hey, seller finance is on the table. You know, what would your offer be? Um, so we we're like, all right, well this is probably when we've ever gone before. And so we started, you know, going back and forth. Um, you know, and this is not probably repeatable, but we ended up getting, almost a 20% discount on it with a seller finance, um, and. Went through due diligence, found out the roof that they had told us was brand new and we shouldn't worry about it. It was, in fact, actually three layers of shingles with a soft spot, no attic access, so we couldn't like actually get up in there to see how significant the damage was. So we ended up having to retrade the roof situation.

Markian Sich 41:13

Uh, lemme just pause there for guys. If you, if you're, if you're, if you, if you're okay. Hold on. Just a, a lot of people, I'm like, yes, I, you know, A DPI, our bread and butter has been. Learning how to get into real estate, VA loans, house hacking, quadplexes, you name it. But, uh, a lot of, like, a lot of military members don't realize that commercial real estate is a great stepping stone into business overall because it's treated like a business. And there's a process here. And so when he said cog, what he meant is he joined a general partner team. Those are the, that is a team of investors who, they are the, they acquire it, they find it, they acquire it, they manage it, they exit it for, on the behalf of other individuals who are completely passive, legally. That's the limited partner. So we call'em gp, lp. All right. Just, just covering the basics here. And so you joined a team to do that, and I'm just gonna cover a few things that I think are important because there's the way a DPI teach.

Mike Goering 42:11

not explaining'em.

Markian Sich 42:12

No, no, you're fine. I just, I'm just realizing like, I mean, a lot of people, it might be very senior and this is just an interesting journey, so they can, they can listen along, but some people might just be starting out or this is shared and this can be a good educational moment. Like one of the things that, um, that, that we do at a DPI, I think very well is we teach the indi individual roles, right? So you, you, it's like moss almost like, and, and I feel like with our Core four roles and, and of course there's like the external team members or kinda like the pseudo, like you need to have a guarantor if it's a really big deal to sign on a loan and all that kinda stuff. And property managers, attorneys, all that kinda stuff. But the core team. It is really like the underwriter, asset manager, capital raiser and deal acquisition person, right? And what you're describing is you, you found a location and on, and this is where I think the, the, the backbone almost of a team is really, uh, asset management and deal acquisition. Because you, those two roles need to focus on an area, right? To really be truly successful. Somebody, somebody really wants to be able to find deals well. They need to focus on an area somebody really wants to focus on managing property managers and contractors and whatnot. To execute a business plan, they have to be focused on an area. But then the two more modular roles are like capital raising, right? And underwriting. You can, you can be, you can plug into a team like you did on that first one, right? You're like, oh, I'll help you capitalize. Boom, you plugged in. Like you, you can go plug in almost anywhere. Uh, you have to really trust that team. Right to, to, if you wanna raise money for them, you, you better trust that they're not gonna screw over your investors that you're bringing on. Right. And they're hard-earned money. So I, I'm, I'm just going over like, there's a lot of really interesting steps that you were taking here and, and so you joined a team, you saw how the sausage is made, you're officially a general partner, you're doing it and then you find a seven unit, um, which I love because I feel like that's a momentum building moment, right? Like you don't have to go get a 300 unit. You guys got a base hit, you got a rep, oh, and by the way, you're doing a seller finance deal. That doesn't happen right off the bat for everybody. First time, uh, probably way easier to qualify on that loan. Right? And then you have what's called, and a lot of people dunno what this means, a retrade situation. So this is I think, becoming more and more common in, in, in, in how competitive the market is right now. But it used to be like extremely like. Oh, you better not be one of those people that ret trades like brokers hate RET traders. But what that means is you had to go back to the seller and tell'em, yo man, you kind of false advertised. So we're gonna have to, uh, adjust the price here. Right. I just had to retrade$200,000. Guess what? That that seller was cussing me up a storm. But so, so talk me through, so you guys are doing your due diligence. That's the whole point. The due diligence is like, Hey, the thing you said was this way. Is it really this way? So that our numbers still make sense, uh, to ensure that we don't have to retrade, right. So you're walking into this retrade, you can't even get up to the roof. You find out it's terrible compared to what they told you it was. How did that conversation go?

Mike Goering 45:15

It was rough. Um, and luckily I didn't know, I didn't know about re-trading being a bad mark on your record until after the fact. And then I learned that lesson. I was like, that was like literally my first deal. I retraded on. I was like, this is, this is not good. Um,

Markian Sich 45:29

No, I mean, if it's good for a good reason, right. I,

Mike Goering 45:32

it

Markian Sich 45:33

I mean,

Mike Goering 45:33

they clearly took, gave us the age of the roof, told us not to worry about

Markian Sich 45:37

they lied.

Mike Goering 45:37

the, um, yeah. And they're like, and then we got up there and the roof sunk like over half an inch when you stepped on it and you're like right under vent and you're like, we know what that means. So, and. as soon as we bought it, we went up under, underneath. I had to crawl into there and break into our attic and, you know, all the boards were rotten out. So we kind of went

Markian Sich 45:56

I,

Mike Goering 45:57

had to, you know, go back to the pencils, like the math and show'em like, this won't work. Um, you know, it actually ended up almost like I got on the phone. This is kind of interesting. I ended up getting on the phone direct with the seller. Um, like the phone call started with, I don't think this is gonna happen. Um,

Markian Sich 46:16

hmm.

Mike Goering 46:16

should just call it quits. And I was like, well, at that point you're like, what do I got to lose? Um, you know, and so we ended up kind of approaching, um. The purchase price in a different way, because one of the cool things about seller finance is you have a whole different lever to pull when you restructure the deal. And so instead of just taking a haircut on purchase price to pay for the roof, split the difference and then renegotiated the terms of the loans that it worked

Markian Sich 46:47

Uh, guys, and I'm just gonna pause you there again, Mike. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's what, this is such a, such an educational moment here. So, uh, seller finance, y'all, what that means is you basically cut out the middleman. You do not need to go to a bank. You imagine you're on, I dunno, Facebook marketplace and somebody selling a lawnmower that you need for$500 and you go to them and you're like, Hey. How about I pay you$550, but I just pay that in$110 installments for five months. Right? That's an example of seller financing. There's no financing. You don't have to go get an Affirm or credit card or whatever. Like, you literally just work directly with the person. It cuts out, it cuts out massive loan fees, origination fees. Um, a a you can also kind of like bypass the typical maybe, uh, restrictions that the lender would put on to ensure that their loan is protected. You can assume all the, I mean, it's a lot. I mean, you better be comfortable at the risk'cause it's, it's all on you at that point. Right. But, um, it's a beautiful thing'cause they, because you can, you can make it into anything you want and, and there's typically two different parts to these deals, right? One is what is the amount of debt, right? Then the other part is how do you pay that debt off? Right. There's an interest rate. There's a, there's a term, there's how long you have. And so what Mike is saying is they, they knew that the seller probably wouldn't be amenable to just like taking a haircut on that price. Right. Which if inevitably affected the debt, but maybe they'd be amenable to how they paid it back, which would still make your numbers work, right, Mike? But, um, basically it was probably more palpable for the seller. Is that right?

Mike Goering 48:34

Yeah. And that, yeah, so we, we really dug into like, he was a retiring guy that was, this was I think his last asset that he was offloading before he retired. So we kind of took that and we were like, well, you want passive income like that. That's the goal here, right? And so we lined

Markian Sich 48:49

Uh.

Mike Goering 48:50

getting paid everything he was gonna get paid if he had continued to own it.'cause that was kind of his thing was he like, well, I can just raise the rents myself and like, I can, I can force value. And you're like, yeah, but you have to work and take the risk. You're like, we'll just pay you the exact same every month. So we ended up increasing the interest rate by a half point. and then he actually kind of just out of nowhere, like he had heard that we were a little nervous about, it was a three year interest only originally, and we were kind of worried this was in 25. So we're a little worried about what was going on with, with Trump taking office and what three years from now looked like if we were gonna refinance or exit.

Markian Sich 49:29

Mm-hmm.

Mike Goering 49:29

we were just like, Hey, that's, that's a little scary, just not knowing what direction the market's going. Um, it's either gonna be amazing for us or kind of not great.

Markian Sich 49:38

It is a wild card.

Mike Goering 49:40

Yeah, because we had, that was like right in the inflation time and all that. And so it's just like, Hey, like we're a little nervous that we can't predict three years from now. And, and so he is like, well, what if we do five years and you're like. Sweet. So it ended up being a five-year interest only and we're just paying a little bit more

Markian Sich 49:56

Oh, beautiful,

Mike Goering 49:57

Yeah, it

Markian Sich 49:59

beautiful man. No, so actually never say never like, uh, honestly,

Mike Goering 50:05

yep.

Markian Sich 50:05

actually I think that it's now more repeatable and explain why. But first, lemme touch on interest only guys. Uh, some of y'all probably know, but just in case, interest only is an incredible thing. What it, as you, as you know, when you're buying a thing and there's a loan, you have to pay off the, the dang loan itself, right? That's called the principle balance. You actually have to pay the thing down, right? If you ever want to own it. And then you have to pay sometimes, sometimes there's zero interest loans. But, um, you have to pay the actual interest to the lender. In this case, the seller himself was the lender. For letting you borrow the money, right? There's a fee for borrowing the money. I, I know I'm breaking it down straight up Barney style, but some of the Marines are probably appreciating me right now. And so what, what they were able to negotiate was, Hey, for five years we do not want to pay down what we owe you. So let's say it's a million dollars. They're like, we will continue to owe you a million dollars for a full five years, right? But all we're gonna do is we're gonna pay you the interest rate the, and so now half of the monthly, no, maybe a third of the monthly payment was eliminated. So let's say if their monthly payments were$3,000, if it was like what's called an amortized loan, they have to do interest and principle. They got to just cut out the principle and only maybe pay roughly two thirds of what that monthly cost would've been. And so now imagine. Yes, you're not paying down that loan, which I talked about. How incredible, you know, principal pay down is like a reverse savings count. Yes. But in this situation, you're able to like supercharge the appreciation, growth and the cash flow.'cause now all, because now you have extra money to play with, you have more cushion in case something goes wrong. You guys are at like getting cash flow for yourself and your investors faster. And um, just having that flexibility of that capital to reinvest it into the deal if you need to, um, and maybe even make the property better so that whatever you, you're losing on the principle pay down now, it appreciates faster at a faster rate. Right. Um, it's just, it's, it's just, it's a phenomenal, phenomenal way. It gives you options. Principal pay down is great. But if you don't have to pay off principle, take that every single time. I swear there, there's not a single instance I've come across where it would make sense to pay off principle on real estate. If you don't have to. If you can, if you can avoid having to pay off principle, take that deal every time

Mike Goering 52:37

Oh yeah. Yeah. And that, that really,'cause one of the things we looked at, especially in kind of today's volatile market is like having different ways to exit the deal. Um, and so that really opened the door to like, there's a possibility of a, of a infinite return refinance option. Um, we'll kind of have to see what happens in the market, but don't have a prepayment penalty, so we're just kind of watching rates. And like if there's an option where our value add strategy builds enough equity that we can just go back to the bank and cash

Markian Sich 53:08

and just

Mike Goering 53:08

know, our

Markian Sich 53:09

buy him out and have it for free. I.

Mike Goering 53:11

yeah. Yeah. Then we can see an infant return, right. That, that's now on the table as a possible option. You know? And right now our kind of primary option is, you know, we've, we're executing the value add strategy. I think rents were about 150 on average below market. Um, and so, you know, we're growing our rent basis and then, you know. Cleaning up the operations, cleaning up the books, so it's financeable. Um, but now we have like another option on the table that there's a refinance exit as well, um, to kind of keep holding that property for longer. And so I

Markian Sich 53:44

I love that strategy.

Mike Goering 53:45

properties without multiple exits, you know? Um,

Markian Sich 53:49

Yeah.

Mike Goering 53:49

don't know what'll happen in three years. And, and real estate is a long game. And I think I heard somebody say like, you can sort of count on two outta the five years in a cycle being not great, but you're gonna use the three years that are amazing to pay for the other two if you do it right. And so just didn't wanna have to worry about like, if we land in that bad cycle when we're trying to exit like that, we don't have another option. Um, and

Markian Sich 54:14

Yeah.

Mike Goering 54:15

that was just kind of building in that flexibility, buying down some risk that we have multiple options on our, on our plate.

Markian Sich 54:22

That's a, that's a phenomenal strategy is to think like, okay, so let's go back to like, you know, is it repeatable? I, and, and, and I see, I see actually, I'll, I'll take a chapter out of a wholesaler's book. They actually use past deals as massive leverage and chips that they use, like for, for the negotiation. They'll be like, yeah, I just did this deal over here. Um, here's the seller's number. They loved it. They appre like,'cause if it's non-conventional to somebody like, you did what, how did you, how did you buy that? What is this going? You know what I mean? Uh, especially when they have to like go through a real estate agent, you have to educate the real estate agent who might not know how, you know, wholesaling is a whole different ballgame. But like,

Mike Goering 55:05

Yep.

Markian Sich 55:05

I, I saw this guy, God, I can't remember it, but he was masterful at it. He was just this young dude. He's like, he always had references. He'd be like, yeah, I just did this deal. This, uh, you know, in, in, in the neighboring, uh, in, in the neighboring neighborhood, in the, in the adjacent neighborhood. I did this deal, I did this deal. I, I have all their numbers. If you wanna talk to'em, they'll tell you, I'm reputable, I have a track record. Here's a scheduled real estate owed. And they're just like, oh, okay. So this is a real thing. So what I'm saying is you have this on your, like, this is one of the coolest things ever. You have a seller finance deal where you made, you did right by somebody. They're happy you have that on your resume. They are now a reference for you. So you, you probably actually have a lot more leverage than you think to make this happen again. Does that make sense?

Mike Goering 55:55

yeah, so. What happened next was kind of crazy.

Markian Sich 55:59

Okay.

Mike Goering 56:00

on that. We watched the lessons. Everybody kind of says on the first deal, like, get that thing stabilized before you start chasing the next one. And so I, you know, found another deal that was like, had been on the market for a while, gave me some of the, just looking at the initial numbers, kind of, we have a lot of mom and pops that phoned here for a long time and they're starting to exit. And so it was kind of one of those. and so I reached out to this broker out in Boise and Small world. So I'm talking to him and I'm like, Hey, I, I did the whole like I invest outta state'cause I had that CO GP in Utah, you know, I'm really looking to focus in this market. We just acquired a property here. he was like, oh, which one? And I was like, this one. And he was like, who's the broker on that? I was like, what was Matt? And he was like, oh, no way. He is like, I'm playing golf with Matt later today. Um,

Markian Sich 56:48

Real estate's a small multifamily is a small world. Dude.

Mike Goering 56:52

and that door just flew open. Um. I ended up, you know, doing a, walking through that property sellers weren't ready to do a seller finance on that. They're not, they're not distressed. So they, they actually ended up taking it off market and they're gonna try again later this year, see what rates do. But

Markian Sich 57:08

Dude, be there. Be there knocking.

Mike Goering 57:11

yeah, having closed a deal, you know, now I'm getting all of his off markets. Um, and so he's just feeding me all the off market stuff. He's asking for my opinions on stuff. Even stuff I've told him like we're not interested in. He's like, well, just gimme an opinion so I can go back to the seller. Right. So now we have this mutually beneficial relationship and all of that was because I got one closed. Right. And he's, I've, we looked at another one I don't know how much of this is broker fluff and how much of this is real, but there was another competing initial offer on this one,

Markian Sich 57:46

I had nine on my first one that I was competing against.

Mike Goering 57:49

yeah, well it's a small market. Um,

Markian Sich 57:52

No, I know. I know.

Mike Goering 57:54

I don't know their capital situation. And he's like, I don't trust that they can close. He's like, but I know you can. Right? And so like the power of being able to close, and you guys talk about this a fair amount, both in the cohort and on the podcast, is like they're vetting me to see if I can close and the fact that I closed already and that he knows that I have this huge network that he does. I don't think he knows the name, but he knows I have this huge network of people and then I can just pick up my phone and call somebody to sign on the loan. Um, sees that and knows that I know what I'm talking about. And so he's,

Markian Sich 58:26

You are not talking about a DPI, are you?

Mike Goering 58:30

I don't even know. like he was just like, I don't even care if your offer's lower. He's like, I would still push the seller to yours over his, because I don't know what his capital stack looks like. Um, and like the seller ended up, that one's still on the market. We're, we're waiting for the seller to come around'cause they're not super motivated to sell. It's a really complex situation. Um,

Markian Sich 58:53

You know, I love the word leverage, right? Like, that is one of my favorite words. Just, just because, not because of like, I heard it before. Um, so I, I look at brokers. I mean back to like, Hey, if actually I was talking to, to Seneca about this, like if you, like, selfishly I love helping the team grow in whatever I can help them with because I know if they become better, like that's gonna lift my ship, right? That their tide's gonna lift my ship. And so I also am a big believer that managing people and outcomes, the best way to do that is through like financial incentive period. And, and so I always put myself in the shoes of a, of a broker. What does the broker want? Ultimately the broker is not tied to the deal in any material way except for the acqui, their commission. And so I'm like, at the end of the day, the broker wants the commission. If they're getting a 3% commission on a deal, you know the difference between 6,000,005 and a half million. For example, isn't going to be material to them, right? That 3% is still gonna be a nice humongous check, and they're not gonna, it's not gonna like, make or break their life, right? What is that, 180,000 or 165,000, right? Either way, they feel like they're winning, but they want that dang check. And so the most important thing for them is confidence of close on the purchase price. And they can actually sway the seller, if you know, to, to take a lower offer if they think that they're gonna get their dang commission, right? And so, for example, right now I'm doing a deal where I, I am, I'm stacking the deck very heavily in my, in my favor on, on this. So first of all, I'm using, I'm, I'm, I'm like not saying it out loud. And Kevin, if you're interested, if you're listening to this, you probably, you probably know where I'm coming from. He knows that if he goes with me, no matter how tough a situation is, I'm gonna close somewhere. Like this past deal was a nightmare. And so. And to your point, like as soon as I closed, like all of a sudden like three or four, uh, brokers out of the woodwork started emailing, he was like, Hey, I got this one deal. Do you want it? Do you want do, do you want it? I think he'd be the best buyer for it. You know, like that, that momentum happens, but like,

Mike Goering 1:01:14

You're always the best. Yeah.

Markian Sich 1:01:15

yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, and, and then, and I told him, I was like, uh, look. And he, he was like, uh, maybe, you know, maybe you guys are a little too far off. So we sharpened our pencil, we got a little bit closer to the, to the offer price. And I was like, dude, just so you know, I have it Prera and it, and, and and, and I was like, so, and then the wait reason I did that is'cause I went and so I reverse engineered that process. I went to my investors and I was like, Hey guys, did you know I can get you a better deal if you can show proof of funds through me? I was like, let me go to bat. I'll go fight for this deal. I'll make it a better deal. But if I can show somebody. That I have it prera, that confidence of close goes up to like 99%. So now I have a broker that I've closed with in the past.

Mike Goering 1:02:03

Whew.

Markian Sich 1:02:05

Well, well, and I, I, I have the down payment pre raised. Right? Not, not, I still have to go through the financing process. Yeah. I,

Mike Goering 1:02:11

it's the same. The same hit as if you were to buy a house cash, like it just

Markian Sich 1:02:15

right, right, right. And so they were like, oh, you know, so now I'm like, I'm doing everything I can to make this broker, like,'cause I don't care what people say. Like, it's technically gonna be the seller's broker, right. I'm not using a broker. I'm still, I'm playing chess, man. I'm gonna still influence that outcome. I'm gonna, you know, I'm doing everything above board. But I know if I come in and I say, Hey, I have proof of funds, I like my investors would love to have, you know, 20% IRR versus 15% IRR. And if all they have to do is gimme their proof of funds, guess what? And so. Anyways, it's just, you're talking about capital and conference of close. Like it's just all, that's what I'm dealing with right now on my next deal. I'm, I'm, I'm, I just, literally, I just got a text 10 minutes into this podcast. Kevin, my broker texted me, said, Hey, I submitted the offer on, on another one. It's a 92 unit now, but that's the one I was like, dude, I have it pre-funded. Like,'cause I got a couple investors that just want to, like, I have a good track record. The momentum is spiraling outta control. And that's what, that's the next step. Um, no, I, I'm not showing off. I'm not going. I'm just like, I, I feel like that, that what you're going through is literally so similar.

Mike Goering 1:03:29

No, and I think, you know, the broker conversations, that's what I've learned is like show him proof of close that you can do that. then the other thing that was really interesting is it's such a small market, so he's the junior broker, um, and his, the senior broker is the number one multifamily transaction guy in Idaho.

Markian Sich 1:03:49

Wow.

Mike Goering 1:03:50

Yeah. And he, he like, that's what he, his vision is to be that guy. so right now he gets all the small mom and pop deals that the other guy doesn't want, which is my buy box. Um, and so we walked through a property and then I was talking to him about like, I had taken a class on urban planning and all this. And so I was talking about like the city plans and like the vision for the city and like how I wanted to be involved in that. And he basically was like, so you want to own the town? And I was like, yeah, kind of.

Markian Sich 1:04:22

Hey. Hey, I, I love that you got, like you were saying, have a purpose, right? You, you gotta have a big mission, a big vision to, to attract the good people, right? Like who, not how, all that stuff.

Mike Goering 1:04:37

Yep. And so I am here to change the landscape of this town for the better, right?

Markian Sich 1:04:42

Wow. Love that man.

Mike Goering 1:04:44

that's where I've taken that second degree in public administration, which is basically like learning how to talk city. And I'm getting

Markian Sich 1:04:52

Oh, it's all coming. First circle. Okay.

Mike Goering 1:04:54

yeah, yeah, yeah. I see what we did there.

Markian Sich 1:04:56

Full circle here. Okay. Okay.

Mike Goering 1:04:59

um, you know, it's really like how can I impact the community? And that's something, um. Coming outta time. But one of the things I learned in my first a DP icon, you know, you never know who he's gonna sit next to you when you go to these conferences. And I guess I could name drop. Um, so Brett Hadley, I, I think you've had him on the podcast. He like just sat down next to me in general seating. you know, he starts sidebar with me. It's my first conference ever. So I'm like, bro, be quiet. Like the speakers are up there. And he's like, starts side baring with me. And like, I start hearing like who this guy is and what he does, and I'm like, bro, you are in the wrong section. If you're sitting where I'm sitting, like, you have no business being here. Um,

Markian Sich 1:05:40

Yeah, he's a pretty prolific investor.

Mike Goering 1:05:42

yeah. And so he's, he invests in Wyoming, which is our little neighbor over there in out west. You know, miles doesn't really measure distance. Um, and so it's like, oh, I, I know where you're from and like, I drive to his town all the time. And you're like, so we started talking about that and one of the things he does is he renovates old motels, turns him into. Like basically extended stays and then corporate leases into the mining companies.

Markian Sich 1:06:06

Really cool.

Mike Goering 1:06:07

I, a really, really cool strategy. Hard to repeat in other markets, but it, he's found a great niche where that works because the mining industry out where he is from is, is blowing up and he's got great boots and ground partner with his brother there. But what I really took from that was he was complaining about running out of contractors at one point because the city was bringing him more projects than he could actually renovate at any given time because he's running outta contractors. And what I

Markian Sich 1:06:37

What.

Mike Goering 1:06:37

from that was when you take an old motel, we have all seen the eyesore in the towns and you convert that into something beautiful and new, you're adding value to the community. And if you can do that,

Markian Sich 1:06:49

Mm.

Mike Goering 1:06:50

the community is going to support you. And that has really like

Markian Sich 1:06:55

I

Mike Goering 1:06:55

changed my vision for how I invest to where community is part of my stakeholders. If I can support the community's growth patterns and what they're looking for while taking care of my tenants, then my investors are, are, I don't even have to worry about them. I know that they're gonna make money. Um, so I really look at, at community first. And so going back, I don't know if you wanna jump in on that, but it's gonna go back to the broker, kind of how I took that vision to the broker. Okay. Yeah. So

Markian Sich 1:07:24

go for it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Mike Goering 1:07:26

like, painting, painting a whole picture of what the city plans are saying for this town. Like what areas I like and why I like'em and like the value add strategy works to support the community. what he's hearing is, I've got a guy that's gonna continue to close in this market and just take every deal I give him. Right?

Markian Sich 1:07:45

Yes,

Mike Goering 1:07:46

we've literally, we were on the phone a couple weeks ago just doing a follow up on a deal that. We're not really interested in because it's too tight. Like there's no value add strategy anyway. Um, and like it's just kinda like, Hey, you're gonna own the town and I'm gonna help you get there. Like,

Markian Sich 1:08:03

dude. Yes

Mike Goering 1:08:04

relationship where he's like, at this point we're like, Hey, we're just gonna grow together. Um, and it's, it's one of those, like, he's been pretty transparent about his goals. They're lofty too. And so like we've really found a great relationship in that to where I know that every deal he has in this town, he's gonna send me.

Markian Sich 1:08:22

dude. Uh, I, it's so crazy'cause I've literally had that same conversation with my broker except for, you know, uh, Anderson is probably a bigger town. I don't know, but there's this, uh, Eastern.

Mike Goering 1:08:33

For

Markian Sich 1:08:34

Uh, side of it where there's a north, south street, uh, road. It's like a main road. It's like the main strip. The Lowe's, the McDonald's, the Walmarts are all there, right? Like everything's on this thing. A lot of my tenants, by the way, they walk to all this, like, where all, all those, uh, businesses, right? So, um, and, and that's kind of like where I wanna get at least three or four on that road and then expand a little bit, but still stay in the same, you know, one hour radius. And, um, I told him straight up, like on this last deal, I was like, I want to acquire 12 over the next five years. Like, that is the goal. So I already have two, I have to do two a year. Now I'm gonna have 12. Like, I don't know why I chose 12. I just, I had to, I had to pick a number in my head, but I was like, I'm gonna get 12 C class properties, maybe B class, uh, you know, somewhere up to a hundred units ish is kind of the sweet spot. Just the economics of, like, I, I, I'm able to get, get a full-time maintenance guy full-time onsite property. Uh. Manager, or at least like leasing assistant, and I can just scale from there. And I'm just like that, that's my razor sharp buy box. And, and he knows exactly what to look for me now, because now, now I basically infiltrated his reticular activating system. Now he's got goggles on looking for things for me. He knows exactly what I'm looking for. You know what I mean?

Mike Goering 1:09:52

Use using some advanced, uh, psychology terms there. I love it. I love the Raz. That's the coolest thing ever.

Markian Sich 1:10:00

Dude, I, I, I, ever since I, I learned about it from, I think Rod Cleef. I was like, I see it. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. You know? Like, I'm like, uh, it's literally how I, I expect, I was just talking to Cenic about this. I love not only influencing my own self to notice things like you're programming your brain. I like influencing the team and then having the team. Like it's, I, I called it like a pressure cooker focus. It's like everybody's like, that's what people have. You're gonna start seeing that red car everywhere if that's what you're looking for. You know what I mean? So, uh, anyway, so cool, man. Like there's so many parallels to your journey and what I'm doing right now too. So I, I, um, I love comparing notes. I love that you're doing a, um, a seller finance deal. I think you'll be able to probably do more in the near future. Um, so please keep sharing that with the community. Um, we talked a little bit about purpose, but do you want to, do you wanna double down on that, uh, anymore?'cause like you have a, you have a, some pretty solid people in your life, right? And.

Mike Goering 1:11:04

Yeah, so purpose is an interesting, I was, I was talking to somebody the other day'cause we're designing a, a veterans transition kind of thing for the community. One of the arms is gonna be entrepreneurship. And so I saw that as a great opportunity to impact my community and veterans as well and kind of just grow what we're doing here. And you know, if I, if I really wanna change the community, I'm gonna need some help, so why not go recruit some help? Um, and you

Markian Sich 1:11:30

Sure.

Mike Goering 1:11:30

to her about transition process and like finding your purpose in that. and so she was like, well, can you like walk somebody through how to do that? And I was like, I don't know. I was like, because I read like, I don't know how many books I read since I got out, but I've just been reading a ton. Like every single day I did the whole how, how Rod thing. So now I read every morning, um. You're like, it's probably like pieces from everything, but I was like, it's also just life, right? So like, for me to find my individual purpose, it was, it started with teaching, like the greatest thing the Army probably did, well, one of the top five for the Army is they put me into an instructor role and I got to stand in front of a classroom and shape the future lieutenants of the army. And I found that deeply meaningful and fulfilling to like, educate. and so I started to like kind of pick up on that as I just reflected on like who I am and what I enjoy, like what I find fulfilling. Um, and so I picked up on people, like helping and mentoring people. It was like a huge part of me. And then, you know, I'm grateful to have done the house flip. Um, that's where kind of the second half of my mission came in is I, you know, you, I don't know if you've done a house flip, but I did it all myself, which

Markian Sich 1:12:43

and flip kind of. And I didn't have to do much work'cause it was anyway.

Mike Goering 1:12:48

Anyway, if you do it all yourself, you have some very long days, uh, where you're just kind of alone with yourself thinking because drywall and paint are not exciting tasks. Um, and I remember kind of like that, you know, uh, gap in the game kind of moment where I was like looking at a room that was coming back to life. Um, and it, that was a deeply fulfilling moment for me to watch New Life come into This house is a 1944 build. So

Markian Sich 1:13:15

Hmm.

Mike Goering 1:13:15

talking about almost a hundred year old house, which for the West is very old. Um, and watching that come back to life in a whole new way and I was like, that's so fulfilling to see. And it like, that's where I kind of like just landed it on a really simple purpose. That's my purpose is to make the things and people around me better. And so I, that through, you know, at teaching and then, you know, really through real estate is where I get the things, where I want to see a community grow and become better. And like that to me was really huge. And when I, I think what's really interesting is now that I've landed on that, it's like every cohort that'll somehow come up, like my purpose. And every time I project that, like community purpose, um, and that, that's what drives me is like making the community better and improving tenant's lives while also, you know, doing the education stuff and all that. Somebody will reach out to me. Like every time, like without fail, somebody will hit me up in the dms and circle and be like, Hey, heard what you said? I think we're in values alignment. Love to hear what you're doing. Like, let's, and then

Markian Sich 1:14:22

So cool.

Mike Goering 1:14:23

right? And like that clarity just attracts and like, and those are the people I wanna attract. Like I. You know, at the, the hero status now, like I get tons of people reaching out, love it, still great conversations, but the ones that reach out that are connected to who I am, and they feel that that connection, like those are the best phone calls because they're, we already have like deep down core inside of us, we have shared values. And those are just different conversations than the like, Hey, I'm interested in multifamily. What, what do you have to say? Like, and so i's, it's been really cool to attract exactly who I'm looking for in addition to

Markian Sich 1:15:04

Hmm.

Mike Goering 1:15:04

right? And so that's been like really cool to kind of have this freedom in my life to get, to really explore who I am and what I'm here for. And then, like, now that I have that, I'm using that as a lever to attract the right people into my circle.

Markian Sich 1:15:21

I need to pull up a quote. Um, because what you're mentioning is essentially, and, and by the way, if you gotta go,'cause I know we we're kind of going over, let me know, but, but I'm good. So, um, God, where was this actually, I know where it was. I have to look through all my AI bots, right? Um, so there's this guy named Caleb Broten, I think I'm pronouncing it right. He was the, uh, basically creative director for, I dunno, like Alex for mosey, Gary VA lot of really big people. And, um, he, he's, he's a personal brand engineer, like just specialist, right? Um, I mean, he released like a six hour masterclass on, on YouTube for free. Like, who does a six hour video on YouTube? Like he, but it is like soup to nuts, full production, massive value. And he talked about, uh, so there's the four steps, and I just like, I, I think it's interesting because what's happening to you is like literally following along in what, what his four steps are is like, you have to decide what your desired outcome is first, right? So you, you, okay, what clearly define like the specific result you want in your personal brand, right? You want premium clients or do you want speaking gigs, or do you wanna do, you know, commercial real estate in Idaho, whatever. Then what would you need to be known for to make that outcome inevitable? So like. He, he, he's basically saying like, there, there's no fluff to this. You actually have to do the things. He is, like, identify the reputation or position that would naturally lead to that desired outcome. Right. So, so what association or expertise must people have with you? You know, maybe you're the go-to expert to scaling gyms, or in this case you're the go-to expert. Like you want to own that town in Idaho, right? So what would you need to be known for to have that desired outcome? Well, you have to be known for is the guy who wants to buy the town. And then, well, what actions must you take? So now it's step three. What actions must you take to be recognized for that? Okay, well in, well I guess you probably have to start buying some dang real estate, right? And you probably have, so outline the specific behaviors, the content types or the activities you need to consistently do and earn the reputation, right? And you, you can't hide behind this. Like, you're like, oh wait. If I wanna be known for be for, for owning a lot, like being a real estate mogul, I, I don't really like that word, but you know what I mean? And, and I, and I want to revitalize this town. I don't wanna just own it. I wanna like revamp it, I wanna make it better. Then that means I actually have to do things. I can't just do lip service and then reverse engineering that one step back. What skills or knowledge do you need to learn to execute on those actions? Right? It's, it's like, it's literally Marine Corps proof. It's like Barney sell. Okay, well, what do you have to learn? So it all starts with that. Like, that's why a DPI is so passionate about education. It was like, you gotta learn how this business works. If you want to buy real estate, if you want to be known for revitalizing a community and, and, and whatever your, your, your mission is. And, and so now you did the thing, right? You literally did the actions. So now you're known for is the guy in Idaho that wants to revitalize and own a town? Yeah. And you're going towards that desired outcome. And so now people are reaching, you're, you've literally your personal brand. You are a walking, talking, breathing business has become a magnet for you. People are coming to you, like you're saying, people are reaching out just because you're doing all those steps. Anyways, I was just like, as you were describing, I was like, oh, he's, he's, he had a desired outcome. He, he's like, well, what did I, what do I have to do to get to that outcome? You know? And he's just like, reverse engineered it. So, uh, dang, I just went on a rampage. I'm sorry.

Mike Goering 1:19:03

you, no, that was, that was fantastic. And you, you make me sound smarter than I am. Uh, I've just been kind of winging this, but glad that it coincided with some steps as somebody smarter than me. Um,

Markian Sich 1:19:13

No, I mean,

Mike Goering 1:19:14

but

Markian Sich 1:19:14

what, yeah, it doesn't, like you did the things that, that is very admirable. You did the things that, that, that's 90% of it.

Mike Goering 1:19:24

that's been really like, I think we've talked a lot about branding at the conferences and things, and like that's, you know, how do I become unique? And I've really just overthinking and just kind of been like, who am I? And then just kind of doubled down on that. Like, values are deeply ingrained in me. Um, and so like I've really that. My purpose or my passion for real estate in certain markets, and then my values for helping the community and not being a slum lord, and like extracting money outta my tenants. Like that, those are true to me. And so like makes saying no really easy. because when I get a

Markian Sich 1:20:04

Yes,

Mike Goering 1:20:05

of my passion. It's really easy to say no. Um,

Markian Sich 1:20:09

it's freeing. Uh,

Mike Goering 1:20:11

which is a really important lesson to learn. Um, like

Markian Sich 1:20:14

one of the biggest distractions is deals. Deals that don't fit your buy box. Yeah.

Mike Goering 1:20:19

last, last male recon we got that's new income. Talk about a DU developments and you're like, dude, that is an awesome strategy. like, but it's not mine.

Markian Sich 1:20:28

Right, right, right. And he's like, you know, you, you, you, you hear him having a hundred million dollars worth of real estate and a hundred thousand dollars worth of cashflow, and you're like, dang. Maybe he's, you know, um, Eric and I say sometimes like just, you know, um, enjoy the boredom. Like, it's good. It's almost, it's one of those green flags. It's like, oh wait, your next deal is boring. Huh? That is such a green flag. It means you're on the right path. Like, you're doing something like that means you're getting better at something. So now next step is the Olympics baby. You know, you hit varsity. Let's, let's keep, let's keep getting better. You think, you think the Olympians love, you know, like getting on that bounce beam 5,000 times, it is boring as hell probably, but, but getting that gold medal isn't, you know, so, um. Yeah. Gosh. Yeah. I, I, I don't know. It's just, it's, it, it, it's really cool. Again, it's been an absolute pleasure listening to your story. Um, and, and I, and I love that it fulfills you to help teach future generations. I mean, that is what you're doing. It, I, I, I pinch myself all the time.'cause like I said, like here I am, I started like a, a, a website and a Facebook group and recorded some lessons in, in, in my office, nook in San Diego. And next thing I know, I have people that are like doing it at scale, this mission of like helping the military find the non-standard way to exit the military, right. The, hey, the not Gs job, the not, uh, you know, feeling pigeonholed and just having to, to, I don't know, be in a cubicle necessarily. I mean, sometimes that is a, that is a stepping stone. That is, you know, you have to take some sacrifices along the way, but having something else, and, uh, I, I, I know I take a lot of pleasure in, in trying to like. Show people what's possible. And, and I think it's really cool that that's what you're doing for all of our cohort students coming through. Um, I don't know. Mike, do you have any parting words for, for any? Like maybe, uh, like, I don't know if you want people to reach out to you or like, um, anything else before we wrap up?

Mike Goering 1:22:36

I mean, I I, feel like we've talked about it, like I'm, I'm here to, to help others. Um, that's, that's core to who I am and I, you know, that, that's what gives me fulfillment. And so, yeah, I, I would love to chat with people and, and see where I can help in the journey that they're, they're telling and, you know, hopefully get them on the podcast here in a couple years, um, hearing all the crazy things they've done. Um,

Markian Sich 1:23:00

Yeah,

Mike Goering 1:23:00

reach out. I think, uh, you know, LinkedIn works, Mike Gehring at LinkedIn, and then, uh, Mike

Markian Sich 1:23:07

yeah. Lemme just spell that'cause I don't even think I said your name out loud. Like I said, keep calling you Mike. I apologize to Gary. Uh, it is. G it looks like Go Ring, right? Like G-O-E-R-I-N-G, Gehring. Um,

Mike Goering 1:23:19

Yep.

Markian Sich 1:23:20

yeah. And so LinkedIn and, and um, and I mean, yeah. And, and if you guys join a DPI, he's there. Yeah. Email. Go for it.

Mike Goering 1:23:27

sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean campus and then email is just Mike at Mountain Ground. Uh, and then I'll do phonetic spelling INV, so India, Victor, November for I, uh, mountain ground investing.com.

Markian Sich 1:23:38

Oh, INV. Okay, got it.

Mike Goering 1:23:40

to put Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So

Markian Sich 1:23:42

put in the show notes. No worries.

Mike Goering 1:23:43

Yep. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I already sent that. Yeah. So, yeah. Perfect. Yeah, reach out. Happy to connect with people. Share. I've made tons of mistakes. Not necessarily financial, but just not being as focused as I should be. And, and that's gotten me to where I am, but now I want to kind of get back and help people shortcut that path that I took the long way on, um, so that they can get to their dreams sooner. Um, yeah.

Markian Sich 1:24:09

Awesome. Hey y'all, thank you for tuning in. I'm just gonna. Say the, the new thing that I'm trying to rem remind myself to say is, uh, give us a little donation. You don't have to like, or subscribe, just share this with the world. If this was impactful to you, think about paying it forward. Share this episode on any social media, text, email that you can. Uh, Mike's story is incredibly inspiring, and if who knows who's who, like, like he listened to the podcast, I mean, I'm not trying to toot my own horn. It doesn't matter what podcast, what book. If you have something that you think will help somebody share it. So in this case, if this was impactful to you, please share it. Help contribute to the A DPI mission of impacting 3 million military families. Thank you so much, Mike, for being here. Thank you for being an A DPI hero and coach. Massively appreciate it. Um, and that's it. That's a wrap. Thank you everybody. All right.