Session 0046 - Tom Herron Sleep Apnoea and Breathing

https://www.tomherronexperience.com

In this enlightening episode of the Professional Hypnotherapist Podcast, we are thrilled to welcome back Tom Herron, an expert in breathing techniques, to delve into the prevalent and often debilitating condition of sleep apnea. Tom provides a comprehensive overview of sleep apnea, explaining its root cause—obstructive sleep apnea (OSA), where a physical obstruction in the airway leads to breathing difficulties during sleep. He shares insights on the critical role breathing patterns play in managing this condition and highlights various treatment options ranging from lifestyle changes and CPAP machines to innovative breathing techniques.

Tom further explores the importance of nasal breathing and its impact on our overall health and well-being. He discusses how proper breathing can significantly enhance athletic performance, reduce anxiety, and even improve issues like sleep apnea. With real-life examples and practical advice, Tom emphasizes the significance of CO2 in our breathing process and how it can influence our cognitive and physical states.

Listeners will gain valuable knowledge on how modifying their breathing habits can lead to better health outcomes, improved sleep quality, and a more balanced life. Whether you suffer from sleep apnea or are simply looking to optimize your breathing for better health and performance, Tom Herron's expert advice is sure to provide you with actionable insights and inspiration.

Tune in to this fascinating discussion and learn how the simple act of breathing can have profound effects on your health and overall quality of life.

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Music Used:

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Transcript

I want to apologise to listeners and readers of this podcast. I messed up the start of the podcast by not asking a direct question and fumbling my words. My apologies and thank you for your patience.

Aidan Noone [00:00:03]:
Tom Herron, thanks so much for joining me again on the Professional Hypnotherapist Podcast. And something that occurred to me, Tom, was in recent times, I've been hearing a lot about, you know, people who are suffering with sleep apnea and the problems that it's causing. And the the the whole area of of problem was the the c this machine, CPAT, I think it's called. Correct me if I'm wrong. And, you know, you're an expert in if you want to call me, I'll call you an expert in breathing and breathing techniques. And this whole area of, you know, stupid question. Why do we breathe? We all need to breathe. But there are ways of breathing that can help us.

Aidan Noone [00:00:54]:
I'm particularly focused on the sleep apnea so that anyone out there who's looking and listening and wanting to, you know, help themselves that what if or, you know, we'll go to explore this whole area of of of, sleep apnea. So as the expert go ahead. Tell us about that.

Tom Herron [00:01:17]:
Well, sleep apnea is a particularly debilitating condition sometimes. And it's if you if we break it down, we're asleep and then there's apnea. And apnea is the Greek word for breath hold.

Aidan Noone [00:01:34]:
Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:01:35]:
So when we hold our breath while sleeping and if you ever have seen someone that has that's good at snoring, should I say, and they let a big rip of a snore and then they stop breathing. Mhmm. And they might stop breathing for up to 2 minutes. And it can happen at any age, by the way. It's more prevalent in males. However, it does affect, females as well, and it has a really debilitating effect on health. Mhmm. Now in order to breathe, that person that has the the apnea has to wake or almost waken each time to take a breath.

Tom Herron [00:02:32]:
Now they might not be consciously aware, but it has disturbed their sleep every 2 minutes or every every time they take a an apnea. Mhmm. And it's you can imagine how that would affect tiredness, how it would how it would affect your performance. And it really can be debilitating, and it's it can be dangerous. I live in the north of Ireland, and the if someone is diagnosed with sleep apnea, they are they have to do a sleep study to to confirm that you have got sleep apnea, which takes quite a while. And the sleep study, if it's, well, bad enough, they have to inform the or they're supposed to inform the DVLA, which is the driver's licensing authority in Northern Ireland because people can fall asleep at the wheel. So you can see that it has, well, serious consequences. And, this isn't to scare anybody that has it.

Tom Herron [00:03:42]:
It's just to get make sure that the condition is treated. Get someone to to look at it. Now I work with lots of people that do a lot of snoring. So, basically, if we can reduce the snoring, it can have such a a beneficial effect. And Tom, do you know what causes it? I do. And the most common form of sleep apnea is, obstructive sleep apnea, o s a. Yeah. And it occurs when there's a functional obstruction in the mouth and throat.

Tom Herron [00:04:16]:
For example, when the tongue falls against the soft palate during sleep and the soft palate and the uvula, you know, the little thing at the back of the throat Yes. Then falls against the throat. The throat, it makes breathing more difficult or even impossible in some cases. OSA can lead to snoring as the tongue and the soft palate, they start to vibrate and rattle. And, it can also cause the person to wake up feeling as though they can't breathe. And with obstructive sleep apnea, the lungs work normally, and the body still tries to breathe. But it's not possible to get enough air in through the upper airway because it's it's obstructed. And as I said earlier on, it's more it becomes more common with age, and it's more prevalent in males.

Aidan Noone [00:05:23]:
And what weight contributed

Tom Herron [00:05:25]:
to? Excess body weight.

Aidan Noone [00:05:26]:
Yeah.

Tom Herron [00:05:26]:
Pregnant people and, people that sleep with their back. Yeah. Some of the symptoms, may include, waking during sleep or feeling very tired when awake, waking from sleep feeling panicked. Snoring or gasping for air during sleep. Headaches. No frequent headaches. Awakening with a dry mouth. Feeling confused or been able to concentrate at work or school.

Tom Herron [00:05:59]:
Mhmm. Treating treatment for sleep apnea traditionally requires fixing the obstruction, obviously, that blocks the airway. And sometimes that can be as simple as changing the position of sleep, you know, instead of sleeping on your back, you sleep on your side or that sort of thing. And other people find that reducing weight or quitting smoking or becoming more physical in their activities can reduce the symptoms.

Aidan Noone [00:06:33]:
Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:06:34]:
You also mentioned, and some people do require a CPAP machine, CPAP. Yeah. And that's a continuous positive airway pressure machine. And that machine, it continually blows air into the throat via mask worn over the nose or the nose and mouth and keeping the airway open. It helps a person breathe during sleep by, stenting, as it were, the upper airway open, with pressurized air. So it's going it's being, there's tubes up the nose, and the pressure of the air is keeping the airway open.

Aidan Noone [00:07:20]:
Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:07:21]:
Obviously, when it gets more difficult that people go for surgery. And to me, that would be, last resort. And I have a son who's a surgeon, and he's of the opinion that surgeons surgery is always the last resort. And it's really useful and, refreshing to to see surgeons looking at that. So, there's also oral appliances that, certain appliances that keep the airways open by preventing the tongue from falling back against the soft palate and stopping that rattle. Sometimes medications are prescribed. However, we find like, I found that in my experience that when we adjust our breathing, it can make such a such an impact. Now you sleep every night with using 3 m MicroPOR tape, and I tape it just across the mouth.

Tom Herron [00:08:26]:
And I never wake in with a dry mouth. I sleep really well. I'm refreshed in the morning. And if I'm not refreshed in the morning, I know that my sleep has been disturbed. And I find that if I take sugar late, It will it'll make me snore, and I can snore through the nose.

Aidan Noone [00:08:52]:
Right.

Tom Herron [00:08:53]:
So it's fascinating because everyone's different. And I'm just giving my own personal experience of of what happens to me. But, basically, when I eat late or especially if I eat something sweet, it'll affect my nighttime sleeping.

Aidan Noone [00:09:12]:
Okay.

Tom Herron [00:09:13]:
I have found that in my case, when I stop eating before 8 o'clock, it makes such a difference. Right. Makes such a difference. And the tip for people with sleep apnea is and can be an issue because they have to make this noise sometimes when the pressure gets too much, and the tip won't allow them. So there is another product by Patrick McKeown as well, who's of, oxygen advantage fame called Myotip, my0tipe, and it's www.myotip.com. And it's a fabric that goes around the mouth without actually covering the lips, and it's sticky. And it's really useful. I use it for children, for example.

Tom Herron [00:10:02]:
Mhmm. And it can be really useful for allowing them to do this with the lips. However, it stops them breathing through their mouth. And, it it makes them obligate nasal breathers most of the time. And it still has got this the built in safety factor that if they have to do this, that they can. So I find that been a game changer for sleep apnea. And it's one of the things that we mentioned there about males. I I worked with a physio in the not too distant past, and his job was looking after rugby players at international level.

Tom Herron [00:10:52]:
And, basically, all he did was make sure that they had a good night's sleep. Because you can imagine the size of the rugby players, some of them have got up to 21 inch necks. And someone that has a 17 inch plus neck is more prevalent to sleep apnea than someone that isn't, that hasn't got a big neck. And can you imagine someone with a 20 inch or 21 inch neck? The weight of the whole thing falling back, especially if they're on their back, and it can cause that obstruction. And that would definitely negatively affect performance at international rugby level. And it's fascinating. He makes sure that the the athletes are grounded, and sometimes that requires them to happen to sleep outside. And it's amazing.

Tom Herron [00:11:46]:
So if the weather's good, they sleep outside. And if the weather's bad, they use grounding sheets to help them with sleep because of the the prevalence of sleep apnea with those with large necks.

Aidan Noone [00:11:59]:
Mhmm. Interesting. And, you know, we breathe in oxygen, and we breathe out mostly carbon dioxide. Forgive my ignorance on the matter. Talk to us about CO 2 and the importance of CO 2 in, our breathing, our inspiration, and our expiration, If if I'm doing something wrong.

Tom Herron [00:12:30]:
How words are, inspiration, isn't it? How

Aidan Noone [00:12:32]:
Yes.

Tom Herron [00:12:33]:
Something inspires us. Yes. And it gives us life. Yes. You know, so it's to breathe in. And this is a topic that I talk to lots of people about because it's so misunderstood and it's actually rather simple. The fact is we cannot breathe without CO2. Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:12:53]:
And we have there's so little CO2 in the air, something like 0.04%. And we need about 6%. So we have to produce it. The body has to produce it. So we produce it by the process of metabolism, produces it. Even there's a there's reference to the production of cells, produces it, and when we do exercise, when we move muscles. So we have plenty of ways of producing it. And it's interesting to see that it's just coming to the fore now how important c02 is.

Tom Herron [00:13:34]:
C02 is, if you like, from a relaxation point of view, it's what keeps you calm. Now we tend to think that if you can imagine oxygen put fire put oxygen on a fire and there's a rage. Put c o 2 on a fire and it's puts it out. So if you look at that in terms of anxiety, when we raise c o 2, anxiety reduces. And it's the catalyst CO 2 is the catalyst to breathe. We have a respiratory center in the brain, and the respiratory center is constantly monitoring CO 2. And once it passes over the the the respiratory center in the brain, it checks it for carbon dioxide content and it then checks it against our tolerance to carbon dioxide. If we have a high tolerance to carbon dioxide, we breathe less.

Tom Herron [00:14:35]:
If we have a low tolerance, we breathe more. So and the thing about it is carbon dioxide is essential for breathing. And it's a it's a mechanism called the Bohr effect, b o h r, which is it was discovered by Christian Bohr around the turn of the last century. And he found that oxygen is only released by the hemoglobin in the blood, by the red blood cells, in the presence of CO 2. So if we haven't got c02, we won't use the oxygen. We cannot use the oxygen that's already in the body. So we breathe the oxygen out. So somebody that breathes more than they need, if we got a a gas analysis, there's 21% oxygen in the air.

Tom Herron [00:15:31]:
So when we breathe in, there's 21% oxygen. And when we breathe out, someone that breathes out more than the need can have an exhale of 18% of that. So we're constantly in a state of oxygen deprivation. And that's for athletes, it's more noticeable because performance is affected. And, I remember back in the day reading that tennis players like Billie Jean King, and showing my age, and Martina Navratilova were nasal breathers, and they were both world number ones. So and that's way back in the day. Now, Djokovic is a nasal breather. Federer was a nasal breather.

Tom Herron [00:16:21]:
Andy Murray is a mouth breather. And when we look at his injury profile compared to the rest of them, there's no comparison. Like, Andy Murray had every shot of any of the best of them, but he was a mouth breather, and he suffered dreadfully from serious injury. Now they're definitely correlated. There's a correlation between breathing through the mouth at high performance and injury profile.

Aidan Noone [00:16:49]:
Mhmm. So, I mean, the importance of, you know, being able to breathe correctly or correcting if you're breathing incorrectly are is is so important that to be able to breathe specifically for sports persons. Maybe for an okay. You'd mentioned tennis player. What about somebody who's an athlete who is, you know we can't athletes, we have to sometimes mouth breathe as opposed to nose breathe. Can you talk about mouth breathing and nose breathing for us, please?

Tom Herron [00:17:24]:
There's a lot of debate over whether at high performance that we have to sometimes mouth breathe. Now I'm in this I'm in the position or I'm in that school that says we can train ourselves up to nasal breathe at any sport, at any level. And I have taught CrossFitters, which is HIIT. You know, it's really high intensity training and they find it impossible. And they only find it impossible because they're they're asking themselves to do do to do too much too early. So what we do is we train them up. We condition them. The oxygen advantage program isn't about forcing anything.

Tom Herron [00:18:08]:
It's about conditioning. So it's not about heroics. And it takes time. Like, I've I've trained guys there's one guy that has been all over Facebook, and I don't mention people that I work with usually, but it's been all over Facebook. And he mentions me all the time. And he did 60 ultra marathons in 60 days with nasal breathing.

Aidan Noone [00:18:32]:
Yeah. So

Tom Herron [00:18:34]:
that's pretty intense. That's pretty and he said that as far as he was concerned, it saved his life because the change in his body and the change in his his whole physicality was immense. So we when we look at athletes, I think that it's it's important for the general public to realize how important nasal breathing is because it's got such a calming effect compared to mouth breathing. And children that have their mouth open at rest, for example, tend to have crooked teeth. So if we want to save a thing on expensive orthodontist ray, Get the child to close the mouth. Babies until they're about 6 months old cannot breathe through their mouth. They're obligate nasal breathers because they're nursing or sleeping. Because when they're sucking, they're breathing through the nose.

Aidan Noone [00:19:33]:
Yeah.

Tom Herron [00:19:33]:
And, it's only when they get congested that the the nose gets congested and they get distressed. And then they they let us squeal because they don't know what to do. And actually, there's a theory that when they do breathe through their mouth and realize that they can breathe through their mouth, it's hardwired to that distress sort of signal. So breathing through the mouth can create distress. Now if we look at the physicality as well and look at physiology, we find that when we breathe in, we automatically go into the, sympathetic nervous mode, which is fight, flight, or freeze. When we breathe out, we go into parasympathetic response. So if we can breathe and have the out breath longer than the in breath, we'll be more in parasympathetic parasympathetic response, which is rest, digest, and repair. And that's why things like humming is really useful.

Aidan Noone [00:20:44]:
Excellent.

Tom Herron [00:20:45]:
Because when we we we actually have a longer exhale than we do inhale. And, humming is really, really useful because humming produces a thing called nitric oxide in the nasal cavity. And it's a vasodilator. It opens up your blood vessels, and it's a bronchodilator. It opens up your airways. And it's also it's a gas. And when we breathe, it's pooled in the nasal cavity. And when when we breathe in the next time after humming, it it's it, like, gives, a cleansing effect to the lungs.

Tom Herron [00:21:27]:
And that cleansing effect is antiviral, antifungal, and antibacterial. So you can imagine getting some sort of an infection, and they have to work out whether it's fungal, bacterial, or, viral.

Aidan Noone [00:21:45]:
Yes.

Tom Herron [00:21:46]:
And it's because I believe that if we breathe in and out through the nose and get used to it, it'll seldom, if ever, block. And there's very simple ways to, you know, to to to start the whole process. If you watch, Aidan, every time I talk for a living, just as you do, so I'm very careful of c o two for me as a person that talks for a living. And what I do is I close my mouth between sentences and keep my sentences short. So I breathe in through the nose and then deliver through the mouth. And then the next sentence, mouth closed, breathe in through the nose and then deliver. That makes such a difference to me and to teachers and to people that talk for a living because it's when we drop our CO two levels too low, we will get anxious.

Aidan Noone [00:22:40]:
Mhmm. Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:22:41]:
So just something as simple as that can make such a difference to everyday life. And I'm it's so normal to me that when I see a flight of stairs, I breathe in through the nose and I'm talking about ticking, just fill in my nose. Small breath in, small breath out, hold my breath, and walk up the stairs without breathing. And then if there's another flight, I'll recover breathing in and out through the nose on that flight. If there's a third flight, I'll do breath hold at the bottom and hold it to the top. And we almost hold the breath after exhaling. And that means that I don't have to do a load of exercise, breath work wise, because a whole day is full of it. I in the car.

Tom Herron [00:23:24]:
I pick when I'm driving. Lots of people have got big issues with the ruminating thoughts and beating themselves up. Yeah. Yeah. And to get out of our head, it's so easy to use the breath. So when I'm driving along, I pick a landmark in front of me like a tree or a bridge or a lamppost or whatever, a road sign just ahead of me. And I'll breathe in, small breath in through the nose, small breath out, hold my breath until I get to it. Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:23:59]:
And it makes such a difference to me because I haven't thought about anything else that whole journey except when's the next breath.

Aidan Noone [00:24:09]:
So that's the optimal way to breathe, Tom. Yeah?

Tom Herron [00:24:12]:
Yes. We need we most of us breathe more than we need, and it's much more it can be much more destructive physiologically than eating more than you need. Mhmm. And that's been that's what I find. And there's lots of information coming out of it, breath and breathing and breath work now. Mhmm. It's massive. And Yeah.

Tom Herron [00:24:33]:
I found it really useful because, my sport was judo, and I was gassing out so easily. And, through breath work, I got my black belt in my 51st year. You know? And thought it was well past it then. However Yeah. Wonderful things can happen. And Yeah. It gives you a a zen state in the sense more often because it's always a balance between fight or flight and rest and digest. Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:25:10]:
And we need to sleep and have good rest in order to repair. And nasal breathing can be so quiet and so calm and so. And I believe that it's the step before mindfulness, Aidan, because I believe that there's so many people out there that's that's too anxious to be mindful. They're just too anxious.

Aidan Noone [00:25:38]:
So changing your breathing, Tom, can have a really positive beneficial effect on your health. So you're moving from, as you talked about, the sympathetic into the parasympathetic. Yes. From from anxiety to rest and digest. That's really important. I think, you know, there was a message that we got caught across to our listeners and to our viewers, you know, you that you have within you the capacity to, you know, be in control and simply by changing the way you breathe. And, you know, something that I picked up on Tom, the the significance we talked about oxygen, carbon dioxide.

Tom Herron [00:26:25]:
Mhmm.

Aidan Noone [00:26:25]:
It it's carbon dioxide that that initiates or causes the inspiration. Is that correct?

Tom Herron [00:26:32]:
It's the catalyst to breathe. Yes.

Aidan Noone [00:26:34]:
Yeah.

Tom Herron [00:26:35]:
So it's it's that important. Yeah. And it's also the it's the trigger for the parasympathetic response because it stimulates the vagus nerve. So it's it stimulates the vagus nerve. Now we get a if we do reduce our breathing, it takes a bit of practice. Because whatever we practice, we get better at. If we practice overbreathing, that becomes the norm. If we practice breathing less, that becomes the norm.

Tom Herron [00:27:08]:
And it's it's so easy to get a, I'm not getting enough breath here. Mhmm. Like, this whole concept is based on the work of professor Buteyko. Mhmm. He was a Ukrainian doctor who wanted to get something for his own hypertension as a young doctor. In his mid twenties, he had hypertension. He had high blood pressure. And he hadn't access to Western medicine because of the Cold War, so he had to play about with things.

Tom Herron [00:27:43]:
So he started to reduce his breathing for some reason, and he found out that it reduced his blood pressure. So he went into the hospice where he was working for terminally ill patients, And he started to talk to the nurse about the breathing patterns could dictate how long the person would live. And the nurse was surprised to say the least, but she was interested enough to note what he was saying. And he was right every single time. He told them how long they would live. And they said, well, is there something we can do? So they intervened and reduced their breathing. And many of them walked out of the hospice. And he finished up on the Russian, space program, And he worked with thousands of people.

Tom Herron [00:28:39]:
And he had big budgets, and he worked with thousands of people. And he found out that not only did reducing the breathing reduce blood pressure, it also reduced blood sugar.

Aidan Noone [00:28:48]:
Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:28:49]:
So we can see how it it regulates. You know, you can imagine that if something is a a vasodilator. If c o two is a vasodilator, obviously, blood's gonna flow through your your arteries and veins much easier.

Aidan Noone [00:29:05]:
What what would you say, Tom, about, how breathing would affect our, you know, our cognitive functioning? What would what would you say about that?

Tom Herron [00:29:17]:
When I'm working with people, I find that they need to be to get out of their heads because their heads tend not to be a nice place to be in. When I work with trauma, trauma is when the world as we know it has been changed without our consent, if you like. So that covers things like if we substitute the word trauma for shock. So what shocks me may not shock someone else.

Aidan Noone [00:29:45]:
Right.

Tom Herron [00:29:46]:
So it's totally subjective and unique to the person in many ways. So and that shock could be falling out with someone that's very had been a very good friend. And it's shocking because you can't get that person back to where you had them before this incident happened. Yeah. And the the relationship changes. So the relationship changes and it's shocking. And then we can go to PTSD and which is, the world's changed there without your consent. And it's it's it's it's amazing how we can self regulate using something as as seemingly simple as breathing.

Tom Herron [00:30:31]:
Because it's all about self regulating. It doesn't matter what happens as long as you can self regulate. And it's the absence of it's the absence of soothing. Very often, it's worse than the actual event in trauma. So when we can soothe ourselves, it's like, look at the animals. It's amazing what they do, and they self soothe.

Aidan Noone [00:30:52]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are there any myths about, other question here. Are there any myths about breathing that you'd like to debunk?

Tom Herron [00:31:06]:
I do. That we mix up big breathing with deep breathing. If I said to you, take a deep breath, we take a big breath. So most of the time, for the vast majority of time, big breathing is unnecessary. And we can take a small amount of of air. And if we put our hands on our chest and our hands on our tummy and breathe in and move the tummy, you'll see how deep that

Aidan Noone [00:31:42]:
can go. Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:31:42]:
And actually, I put my hands on my sides, and I push in just below the just below the rib cage. And we have got spare ribs that are unattached. And, basically, when I push in and I push in pretty far firmly, and I breathe in, and I feel the air pushing the sides out. That's the way I like to breathe because that supports my back. So lots of I just was reading a paper yesterday, and it's about breath work to see if back pain. And it's fascinating because if we breathe chest, the back's not supported. When we breathe low, it is. So it's fascinating.

Tom Herron [00:32:38]:
And things like, you know, when we look we talk about core strength. The largest muscle in the core is the diaphragm. Nobody trains it. Nobody mentions it. So why do we not mention the largest muscle in that area? And when we look at the esophagus and we look at things like hauteus hernias, and, the esophagus has to go through the diaphragm to to to connect with the stomach, and there can be the sleeve there can get, leaked or damaged or and it causes all sorts of things. But nobody mentions the diaphragm.

Aidan Noone [00:33:20]:
Tom, can I ask you to, if possible it it may not be possible, but if it was possible for you to, you know, demonstrate for us breathing at a rest at a at a restful state?

Tom Herron [00:33:36]:
Some of the things that we have to realize is if we hear our breathing, we're breathing too much. Okay. If we see it, we're breathing too much at rest.

Aidan Noone [00:33:48]:
Okay.

Tom Herron [00:33:50]:
So we teach it that we can't see it and can't hear it.

Aidan Noone [00:33:55]:
So Now when you say see it, what do you mean? Is that in a frosty

Tom Herron [00:33:58]:
you can't see anything moving.

Aidan Noone [00:33:59]:
Oh oh, I beg your pardon. Right?

Tom Herron [00:34:03]:
Okay. Because when you're sitting and you you look at someone and you see their breath and you know what state they're in, you can calculate what state they're in. And, if you've got an issue with cold hands or cold feet, there's a circulation issue, and it's probably to do with breathing or could well do with breathing more than you need.

Aidan Noone [00:34:25]:
Right.

Tom Herron [00:34:26]:
So if we start to and it's simple. We always breathe in or usually are breathing through one nostril better than the other. And sometimes when we go and block the nostril we're breathing best through, we can feel the air hunger. We can feel this this need for air. And basically, it's useful to practice that and let go anytime it gets too difficult. This isn't about heroics. It's about training the the the mind, body, spirit to get more used to higher tolerance of CO 2. Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:35:05]:
And just move that. And we can do that for 2 minutes. We can do it for the rest of our lives.

Aidan Noone [00:35:10]:
Okay.

Tom Herron [00:35:11]:
So and it's building that up. And I get I get people to to do it and see if they can do it for 10 minutes. And even if they're start starting and stopping, it's just 10 minutes. And, I remember having this this this lady who serious, COPD. She had several really serious, respiratory issues, and she was wondering, I can't sleep, can't she couldn't and she used to she was very determined. She used to crawl up the stairs into the bedroom. She wouldn't she says, if I get a lift, I'll never be able to walk again. Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:35:55]:
And she said that, if I bring my bed downstairs, I'll never get up the stairs again. Yeah. And I says to her, well, what would you like to do? She says, can you help me? And I says, well, we'll have a go but it'll take time. So to cut a long story short, we did it and, I worked with her and I says, I'd like you to I'd like you to do this for 10 minutes an hour for 5 hours a day. It sounds crazy. And all it was was take small breath in, small breath out, hold the breath, hold the nose for a count of 5 and recover. And do that for 10 minutes every hour for 5 hours and see how you get on. And I'd like you to to tape your mouth at night.

Tom Herron [00:36:37]:
And I asked her to tape her mouth, not horizontally, but vertically

Aidan Noone [00:36:43]:
Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:36:44]:
So that when she myotape wasn't about at the time. So, basically, she what do you call that? And she turned the ends of the tape on, onto itself so that only the middle was was sticky so she could pull it off at any stage. And we were monitoring this. And, she wasn't very impressed for the 1st week. She wasn't very impressed for the 2nd week. 3rd week, she was getting phlegm up, and she was amazed that she could get phlegm up. And then so as we went through, week after week, about week 6, she says, I can't believe that I can bring this phlegm up so easily. And she could.

Tom Herron [00:37:21]:
And Yeah. She says to me, I'm doing 10 minutes on a bike. And, she says, I'm walking up the stairs.

Aidan Noone [00:37:28]:
Marvelous. And as you mentioned, Tom, fascinating. Indeed, it is fascinating.

Tom Herron [00:37:33]:
And it's but it's not everybody would do what she did. She was so determined. Mhmm.

Aidan Noone [00:37:38]:
She

Tom Herron [00:37:39]:
was so determined. And, it was fascinating to see the the, rewards that she got

Aidan Noone [00:37:47]:
Yeah.

Tom Herron [00:37:48]:
From something as simple as breathing. And I remember a guy rang me up one day, and he says to me, I've got a friend in hospital, he says, and he's got, serious respiratory issues. And he said, the doctors can't do an awful lot for him at the minute. He says, I don't even know what the issue is. He says, but will you go down and see him? And I said, surely. And the guy says to me, look. I know that I have got a limited time to live, he says. The doctors tell me that it's it's rather shorter short shorter than I would like.

Tom Herron [00:38:28]:
Is there anything you can do? And he says, I don't know. I don't know. He says, well, will you have a go? So I did. So he was given something like 3 months to live. And, the guy that actually rang me 2 years later died, and And this guy was still living.

Aidan Noone [00:38:50]:
Oh. And

Tom Herron [00:38:51]:
he actually come out of the come out of the hospital with me. He says these guys can't do anything for me. But so and that's that's just a story that it's it's just amazing what what breathing can do. The, the American Indians, anthropology tells us that they believe that we have got x number of breaths, and then we die. So it's useful to slow that up.

Aidan Noone [00:39:20]:
Fascinating, Tom. You know, it it's it's a it's a topic that, you know, we could go on talking about for hours and hours because there's so much in it. And for anyone watching and listening, how can we contact you?

Tom Herron [00:39:36]:
I have a website. It's www.Tomherron, he, double r, o n, experience.com. Right. And my phone number in Southern Ireland and Republic of Ireland is 0868050604. In Northern Ireland, it's 0, double 7, 34435163. And anyone who wants to Yeah. Have a chat about any other things, feel free to do so if Yeah. Text me a message or or something like that because it is fascinating.

Tom Herron [00:40:11]:
And you'll realize how something is simply that's that's so simple. One of the things that I find fascinating about Mhmm. Breath work is anybody that's of a spiritual nature because breathing is very spiritual.

Aidan Noone [00:40:29]:
Mhmm.

Tom Herron [00:40:30]:
And you find that meditation is breath work. Yoga for 1000 of years was breath work only. The exercises came later. So all of that stuff is very relevant. And one of the things that really got me was when I breathe in, I must breathe in for to survive. It's mandatory that I breathe in, and that breath from the universe gives me life. But in order to survive, I must breathe it out. So to take the next breath.

Tom Herron [00:41:15]:
So it's a really wonderful metaphor for forgiveness that we have to let go of everything to survive. And Wonderful.

Aidan Noone [00:41:24]:
Yeah. That's wonderful way to, you know, to to phrase and to look upon us that you know, you're getting rid of the the waste gas and you're you're you're you're forgiving. Yeah. And you're

Tom Herron [00:41:35]:
You're forgiving.

Aidan Noone [00:41:36]:
Something new.

Tom Herron [00:41:37]:
So it's a wonderful metaphor for forgiveness. And if we look at the word forgiveness, it's forgiving away. Yeah. Forgive forgiving.

Aidan Noone [00:41:47]:
Yeah. Wonderful. Just give us your numbers again, please, if you don't mind.

Tom Herron [00:41:51]:
So the number is in the Republic of Ireland, it's 0868050 604. And in Northern Ireland, it's 07734345163. And the website is www.tom, t o m herron, herronexperience.com.

Aidan Noone [00:42:19]:
Excellent. Well, I mean, as I said, we go one talk for hours, but we have to end now. And, you know, I would encourage anyone who is needs to know more about this to contact the man himself. So, Tom Herron, thank you so much for this wonderful experience, of speaking with you today. Bye bye for now. Until the until the next time.

Tom Herron [00:42:39]:
Thank you for the opportunity. And anything that you have anything I can help you with, feel free to lift the

Aidan Noone [00:42:46]:
phone. Thank you, Tom. Take care. Bye for now.

Tom Herron [00:42:48]:
God bless.