Session 0048 - Anne Hogarth, Audiologist & Tinnitus Therapist, Hypnotherapist

 Correction: I, Aidan Noone, said in the podcast to "unthaw the freeze" of course I should have said to, "thaw the freeze" - my apologies for the error.

Here are some practical insights and approaches to reducing tinnitus, as shared by Anne Hogarth—a seasoned audiologist, CBT practitioner, and hypnotherapist:

Key Approaches to Reducing Tinnitus

1. Addressing the Brain, Not Just the Ears: 
Tinnitus is generated in the brain, not the ears. Even if the auditory nerve is cut, the tinnitus persists. This means that focusing on how your brain processes the sound is vital.

2. Managing the Stress Response: Tinnitus often puts your body in a heightened state of alertness (the “fight, flight or freeze” response). Reducing anxiety and stress can significantly impact how you experience tinnitus.

3. Hypnotherapy & CBT:
Research and Anne’s clinical experience show that hypnotherapy and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) are the most effective interventions. These therapies help your brain reclassify the tinnitus sound as less threatening, making it easier to ignore and less distressing.

4. “Filing Away” the Sound:
The brain struggles with tinnitus because it can’t cross-reference this sound with anything known or safe. Hypnotherapy helps you connect the sound with positive or neutral experiences, allowing your brain to “file it away” instead of treating it as a constant alert.

5. Mindfulness and Relaxation:
Practicing mindfulness and deep relaxation helps calm the sympathetic nervous system. Simple activities like focusing on your breath, physical sensations (like the feel of an object), or using guided visualizations can help shift your attention away from tinnitus.

6. Don’t Sit in Silence:
Anne cautions not to stay in quiet environments, as this can make the tinnitus more prominent. Background sounds like gentle music, nature sounds, or even “Zen music” (fractal tones designed for focus and relaxation) can help mask the tinnitus and make it less noticeable.

7. Use Tinnitus as a Signal to Relax:
When you notice your tinnitus, use it as a cue to take a moment for relaxation. This reframing shifts the focus from fighting the sound to using it as a reminder for self-care.

8. Seek Professional Support:
If tinnitus is affecting your quality of life, Anne recommends seeing a trained tinnitus therapist—ideally someone qualified in hypnotherapy and/or CBT. You can look for therapists via professional organizations like the European Association of Professional Hypnotherapists (EAPH).

Quick Tips for Daily Life

- Avoid total silence—keep gentle background noise on.
- Practice mindfulness—engage your senses in positive, grounding activities.
- Challenge negative thoughts—CBT techniques can reduce distress.
- Focus on enjoyable activities—tinnitus often fades into the background when you’re engaged and happy.

Music used: All Credit to; https://soundcloud.com/ashamaluevmusic/news?si=51a2097bc1644233815

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Transcript

 [00:00:04]:
Ann Hoggart, thanks for joining me today on the Professional Hypnotherapist podcast. I do appreciate you being with me here today.

Anne Hogarth [00:00:15]:
Very kindly, thank you.

Aidan Noone [00:00:18]:
And of course you're a audiologist with many, many, many years of experience specialising in tinnitus. You're a master's in cognitive behavioural therapy and a hypnotherapist and a valued member of the European association of Professional Hypnotherapies.

Anne Hogarth [00:00:42]:
That's correct, yes. Rather a lot to go through here.

Anne Hogarth [00:01:31]:
I'm really delighted to get the word out there, to be quite honest.

Aidan Noone [00:01:35]:
I'm very excited. Great. And the research, Ann, tell us about the research that you have been involved in in terms of coming up with your methodology, your for dealing and working with tinnitus reduction.

Anne Hogarth [00:01:55]:
Well, it all started with obviously as hearing aid audiologist, doing all the training with that became a fellow of both British and the Irish Society. I was doing 50 odd hours of CPD's every year. But tinnitus was something I'd always been very interested in because it was so different and there was no cure. But gps all said, sorry, no cure. So during the course of the training and I was over in America doing training, I was in ucl, I was in Cambridge training office getting as much information as I could about audiology in general. And during the course of that I had an accident and couldn't use my left hand, couldn't put my fingers together. So I was sort of pointed in the direction of hypnotherapy. Started on hypnotherapy course with Joe Keaney down in the Merino in Dublin.

Anne Hogarth [00:03:00]:
And that was in 2008. And by then everything that had ever been published about Turitas I read. I had looked at every piece of research and it all said, hypnotherapy is a good idea. So I thought, right, that's the way we'll go. Joe Keaney fixed my fingers, my finger and thumb. So I was okay to go back to doing handling the tiny little hearing aids and repairing them. I mean the wires. When I repaired hearing aids, the Wires inside are the thickness of a hair.

Anne Hogarth [00:03:38]:
So you can imagine if your son doesn't work. And your finger, you can't do it. Anyway, the tinnitus. The tinnitus still was foremost in what I was doing. Slowly but surely, more research said, yeah, hypnotherapy is good, but CBT is even better. So tick masters and cbt, and in between times, I also quickly took a certificate and a certificate to allow me to teach how to do relaxation at a deep level. Anyway, mindfulness at its best. After I've done all that, and with another little blip in between, I lost my sight.

Anne Hogarth [00:04:33]:
I actually lost my sight at one point because I had cataracts, had them replaced. The film they left turned opaque and I couldn't see. And that was another. It was like the universe has been pushing me all the way through. I couldn't see properly. It was all grey and just movement. And when I got my eyes fixed again, I realized during that time, I had no memory. There was no memory of what happened.

Anne Hogarth [00:05:01]:
I couldn't remember faces because I couldn't see them clearly. Voices, I couldn't place voices. Nothing stuck in the memory banks. That was like about three months. Anyway, from there, I had my eureka moment. Suddenly I thought, all this business of tinnitus. I've been to every research lecture possible attended online and in person, and it was all about what was on inside the brain, inside the body. And with the cvt, I discovered the vagus nerve, the polyvagal fight, fright or freeze.

Anne Hogarth [00:05:39]:
And then I thought, oh, my goodness, of course, when we actually go through teaching someone how to use their hearing aids for the first time, or if they haven't heard for a long time in the manuals that you handed out to the client. And also what I used to go through was that every sound will be really loud. They'll all be startle sounds. And that startle sound is what happens when the autonomic system comes into play and the sympathetic system gets alerted. The freeze. The flight freeze. Or what's the other one? Freeze, flight. Oh, my goodness, I'm so excited about this.

Anne Hogarth [00:06:34]:
Anyway, the symptom that comes into play, suddenly, your whole body's on red alert. Half your body functions stop working because of the polyvagal system. It sends message to the stomach. Stop digesting. Because if you do, you haven't got enough energy to run.

Aidan Noone [00:06:55]:
Yeah.

Anne Hogarth [00:06:56]:
So when we go through all of that, suddenly, it is exactly the same as what people complain about feeling when they've got tinnitus. They're anxious, they're on edge the whole time, their emotions are all over the place. It was just something that absolutely stuck with me. That's the missing link. Then I started finding recent articles and apparently they've discovered that in the hippocampus, it's like a double structure, one that takes in memories as they happen. And then before they're filed away into the memory banks, the brain sifts through them and decides where they go. Cross references them to previous memory sounds and sights and smells, etc. Cross references them before the file mate into the big filing system.

Anne Hogarth [00:07:54]:
So what happens with the tinnitus is that that sound hasn't got anything to cross reference it to, so it stays in this heightened state of alert stage where it can't go anywhere because there's nothing to cross reference it to. And this is where hypnotherapy is the only answer. Because I know recently I heard that regression is no longer popular in hypnotherapy. Well, it's something that every hypnotherapist uses because that's how you access the subconscious.

Aidan Noone [00:08:33]:
Is that the phrase we are talking about when you become stuck? Is that what we're talking about? That memory becomes frozen or almost. It doesn't know where to go, as you said.

Anne Hogarth [00:08:46]:
Yes. It's got nowhere to go. There's nowhere where the brain can file it away because the sound is in the head. It's a sound that no one else can hear. It's in the head and the person that's hearing it is constantly on a state of alert. The same way as if you were walking through a wood, dark wood, and a twig broke beside you, you're immediately looking round and you're looking to see where the sound comes from. Because once you see what makes the sound and you say, oh, it's just a bee. Squirrel.

Anne Hogarth [00:09:18]:
Fine, no problem. File it away. Squirrel. The shape of a squirrel comes into your mind, an image. File it away. If on the other hand, the sound remains, you will walk through that wood at a faster rate, a lot faster rate, because it's unknown. So you get away from the sound as much as you can, but you notice there's no getting away from it. It's in the head, it's constant, or at least it's perceived to be constant, but it's not actually constant.

Anne Hogarth [00:09:49]:
This is. Yeah.

Aidan Noone [00:09:52]:
Now you mentioned in the training, Hannah, a really important point. I thought it was noteworthy. You don't need ears to have tinnitus, but you do need a brain.

Anne Hogarth [00:10:03]:
That's right. Because it's all in the head. The tinnitus is all within the head. It activates the same part of the brain as false limb syndrome, phantom limb syndrome, where the limb is gone, but you still have sensations. And that's the same part of the brain because it is unknown what it's actually all about. It's a sound that's in the head. Personally, I believe that it's the oral system's way of sending pain messages to the brain, that there's damage somewhere in the oral system. The damage can be repaired, but the tinnitus remains because it's heightened the activity in the sympathetic system.

Anne Hogarth [00:10:48]:
You need the parasympathetic system to allow things to go back to normal, but it's not getting a chance because it's constantly on alert, because there's no way unknown where it's the sounds coming from. So, yes, therapy. We access the subconscious, we find out exactly what the sound is nearest to. And that image. Like if I say to you right now, whatever you do, don't think about the elephant, you'll immediately get an image of an elephant in your head. That goes without saying. If I say to you a cat meows, you will see a cat. As you hear the sound in your memory banks coming forward, the sound.

Anne Hogarth [00:11:38]:
So it's very much a case of that. We need an audio and a visual to be able to file things away. In fact, there was a recent, there was a recent piece of research that I read about. Cross modal interaction between auditory and visual input impacts memory retrieval, which that paper says it all. You need both. So if you can access the memory banks and bring back memories of something that's similar, you will get a visual image. You will get a whole lot of other additional things. Like if it was a rose, you not only get the image of the rose in your mind, but you also get the smell of the rose.

Anne Hogarth [00:12:26]:
You also get the feel of the rose, the prickles on it, the thorns on a rose. So it's all cross referenced in a certain area in your brain. So what you do is.

Aidan Noone [00:12:39]:
I beg your pardon, sorry, is that what might be, we may call a synesthesia of some sort of.

Anne Hogarth [00:12:45]:
Yes, absolutely. Every single. Every single sense we have is all cross referenced before it can be slotted away into the right place. Because our memory banks, from the day we're born, in fact from before we're born, is collecting memories. And that collection of memories, research has shown that that's us building up a massive library so that we have so much input for our own safety. And as we know, Maslow's triangle, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, safety and security is the second most important thing in our lives. And that's why we build up all these memories so that we can keep ourselves safe in every eventuality. We're relying on our parents, on our caregivers to begin with, to assist us in that.

Anne Hogarth [00:13:39]:
But eventually we go in a big bag, bad world and we've got to be safe.

Aidan Noone [00:13:43]:
Yeah.

Anne Hogarth [00:13:44]:
That's why tinnitus is so distressing. I mean, it's so distressing that some people have suicide ideation because of it. They can't live with it anymore.

Aidan Noone [00:13:54]:
Yeah, yeah. Now, excellent, Anne, thank you so much for, for this information. Now out there in the world there you, you probably have some statistics about the numbers of people or do you, who are suffering tinnitus. What would you say is a rough estimate?

Anne Hogarth [00:14:15]:
We'd say 17% of the population.

Aidan Noone [00:14:19]:
Okay.

Anne Hogarth [00:14:19]:
At this moment in time, about 3,500 people in Ireland alone are absolutely driven to distraction. Their lives are completely out of control because of distress and symptoms of tinnitus. They can't sleep, they can't eat, they are really in distress. Heightened state of anxiety and yes, suicide ideation. Although research shows that very few people actually do take that to the worst case scenario, pure and simply without a co morbid mental issue. So we're talking about, it becomes really bad. But the weird thing about tinnitus is when you're doing something you really enjoy, like if you're laughing, you don't hear your tinnitus. If you're doing something you enjoy, you don't hear your tinnitus.

Aidan Noone [00:15:20]:
That's interesting, isn't it?

Anne Hogarth [00:15:22]:
The medical profession are all trying to find some form of medication that's going to calm it down. Well, how do you calm down a complete alert system in the body? Yeah. Feed it tranquilizers, you know, anything that will calm it down. No, the person that's hearing this sound will continue to hear it. Hearing aids sometimes help people, but you take them out at night to go to bed and what happens? Oh, there's the tinnitus back again. So you can't get rid of it through any mechanical means. No gadgets, no gizmos, no medication, absolutely nothing that will work except for hypnotherapy.

Aidan Noone [00:16:08]:
And what about the audio programs that are available that are being pushed out there? What's your take? You having many, many years as an audiologist, what's your take on that, please?

Anne Hogarth [00:16:25]:
Oh, I mean, I was there at the very start when Digital hearing aids first came in and I saw a lot of people having to leave the profession because they couldn't handle computers there were any computer literate. So the old analog ones, you just fitted them and that was it. You could turn the sound up and down. The digital ones allowed us to then reprogram hearing aids and put on a special program. You just click a button or use your phone and it fetches a background noise, white noise, which sounds great because it was just above the sound of the tinnitus. So you could turn it up if necessary. So that sort of masked the tinnitus. I will say to you, that is a sticking plaster.

Anne Hogarth [00:17:17]:
If you get a cut, you put a sticking plaster on it. It stops the bleeding, but it doesn't heal the wound. The body heals the wound, the brain heals the wound. That's exactly the same with the tinnitus maskers. Widex in conjunction with Robert Sweeto from University California. Robert came up with this fantastic idea of fractal tones. They produced a thing called Zen music that was pure and simply fractal tones. If you're looking for it on the web, it's Widex Zen music.

Anne Hogarth [00:17:54]:
And what happens is that it's what I call plunky music. It keeps the brain busy focusing on the sound in the background. And it means that you can't do two things at once. Normally when you're, you know, there's only special people that can actually listen to two different things at the same time. So the result is that it helped mask, but it was in a different way. It gave you a pleasant tune. Because white noise can actually cause tinnitus. Constant sss in your ear.

Anne Hogarth [00:18:34]:
Yeah, that can cause tinnitus or it can cause it to get worse. The fractal tones were much, much more pleasant. And even for somebody who hasn't got tinnitus, it's brilliant. If you're wanting to focus on something really strongly and cut out all the background noise, use it to send tunes. It doesn't leave a music worm in your head. You cannot get a tune from it because it's just notes that harmonize, but no tune. So it means that nine song that keeps replaying in your head doesn't happen. So the result is that I would advise that for anybody, especially if you're studying.

Anne Hogarth [00:19:11]:
Fantastic for studying, as it lets you focus entirely on what you're doing. But the tinnitus mask, there's all sorts of things that have been brought out, like the water music. Well, okay, the sound of waves crashing or the Sound of a waterfall. Yeah, but what happens when you hear water? First thing you do is go pilot cold. Every one of them has its disadvantage and can be very annoying.

Aidan Noone [00:19:41]:
So go ahead. Beg your pardon?

Anne Hogarth [00:19:46]:
Yes, I used to use the maskers, but not very often because that didn't help the person who was suffering from all the anxiety. They needed help to lower their anxiety levels.

Aidan Noone [00:20:02]:
No, but the real cure, if you want to call. Or the real. What would you call it? Intervention, is to use an expression to unthaw the freeze.

Anne Hogarth [00:20:19]:
Yes. Well, it is because once you start, once you start delving in with deep relaxation in trance and going to the subconscious, then you get the person to fetch back memories, good, positive memories attached to that sound. A perfect example. It doesn't happen. You've got to be a bit investigative, you've got to be really on the ball with it and listen to the person, what he's saying, or hurt. I had one that said it sounded like a radiator bleeding. Well, to most people that have never bled a radiator, that's sort of foreign. But this gentleman in particular said it just sounded like a radiator bleeding.

Anne Hogarth [00:21:09]:
So what did I do? These bled radiators. So I took him to one that was particularly difficult and asked him to describe it, describe the room, describe everything about it, describe exactly what's going on with radiator, where his tools are to the left or right, what tools has he got? And he brought them all back in vivid detail because that memory was in his subconscious because he had the sound of the radiator. I then asked him, how did it feel when you got it to bleed? And he was boiled. He was excited about, oh, it was great. And he was telling everybody that he managed to get it. That was all I needed to do because that was all they needed to put a visual with, with that sound. And the brain does the rest. But also use the tinnitus from then on as a signal, you know, the tinnitus, you'll hear it from time to time because everybody in this world would be able to hear the tinnitus if they wanted to.

Anne Hogarth [00:22:21]:
An experiment many, many years ago placed students, all perfect hearing students, into an anechoic chamber that was deprived of all sounds and everything drive you mad and.

Aidan Noone [00:22:34]:
That, that can drive you crazy.

Anne Hogarth [00:22:37]:
Yeah.

Aidan Noone [00:22:37]:
But absence of sound, it allows you.

Anne Hogarth [00:22:40]:
To hear your tinnitus.

Aidan Noone [00:22:42]:
Yes.

Anne Hogarth [00:22:44]:
Some actually experienced tinnitus. Some of them, unfortunately, it didn't go away. Yeah, yeah, it is, it is an amazing thing. That's what makes me think it pain stimulus because if all these students could hear, was the brain learning that there was something wrong with the hearing? Because hearing is absolutely essential for safety. If you can't hear, then you lose your sense of safety. You have no idea what's creeping up behind you. It could be a massive lorry coming your direction.

Aidan Noone [00:23:25]:
Absolutely, yeah.

Anne Hogarth [00:23:27]:
So it is very, very important. But yes, using the tinnitus from then on, anytime you hear your tinnitus, using it as a signal, a trigger. Oh, there's my tinnitus back. Time for me to sit down and relax. Take time out. That's where the mindfulness comes in. That's what I used to do. Because I am at this moment no longer practicing.

Anne Hogarth [00:23:50]:
Covid killed my. My practice with COVID I have a big clinic here. And to actually do what I was doing, which was test and hearing and then hypnotherapy on the client, and it meant that you had to be in close proximity, sitting beside them for up to an hour to an hour and a half. And that was totally banned in the profession. You could have 15 minutes and that was it. So that would close me down completely. But, yeah, you use that trigger as a trigger and it says, time to relax. And when you relax, one of the things I used to do was I used to say to him, doesn't matter where you are, you can relax even if you stand in a queue, Perfect time.

Anne Hogarth [00:24:43]:
You just stand there, find an object, focus on it, then look at the shadows round about. Ignore the object, but the shadows. Look at the shadows and analyze them and see what colours you can see in the shadows. And it is the most amazing, relaxing thing to do. And you do. Suddenly you realize that light reflects the color, a little bit of color from every object against the wall. That's why I've got these things. I've got my ball that twists like that up against the wall.

Anne Hogarth [00:25:22]:
People can automatically see the color reflected on the wall. That was one of the amazing things for people who are suffering depression as well. Depressive people see things in praise, but when you use color and they start to see the color, the depression lifts psychologically.

Aidan Noone [00:25:45]:
Something absolutely in your research and indeed your experience. Now, if this is appropriate to ask, you know, I'll ask it. But if it's not, you know, you don't have research. But I think for someone of your experience, you probably have covered every. Every avenue. The question is, in your opinion and in your professional opinion, to what extent is orthodox medicine drugs, to what extent are they mask or are they covering up the. The real or what effect do they have on tinnitus? They may dampen it. Go ahead, go ahead.

Anne Hogarth [00:26:30]:
Medication has its place, but not the tinnitus. If one person was to take a low dosage dispersible aspirin every day for life, it would have no effect. The next person takes one low dose of aspirin and they immediately have tinnitus.

Aidan Noone [00:26:53]:
Yeah.

Anne Hogarth [00:26:54]:
Ototoxicity and a lot of medication cause autotoxicity. Research that I read up not that long ago was that people who have chemotherapy, 100% of them have problems with their oral system and tinnitus. And the funny thing about it, one of the things that I absolutely adored, the team from the uk, from Cambridge University, David Bagley was. Unfortunately he's passed on now, but he was Mr. Tinnitus man as far as I was concerned. He discovered, they discovered him and his team, that if you cut the auditory nerve, tinnitus persists.

Aidan Noone [00:27:47]:
Ah, right.

Anne Hogarth [00:27:51]:
It doesn't affect the tinnitus.

Aidan Noone [00:27:53]:
Yes, yes, yes.

Anne Hogarth [00:27:55]:
So it's. Yeah, yes, yeah.

Aidan Noone [00:27:57]:
There's so much emphasis, you know, nowadays on the ear. On the ear, on the ear. It's all about the ear and about. Because we associate obviously hearing with our ears. But the truth is it's very little of nothing to do with your ear.

Anne Hogarth [00:28:15]:
No, that's, that's it. And in the talk I actually showed a size. I don't think I've got one here now. The size of a cochlea. Yeah, A little, a little life size cube with a cochlea and it is tiny and yet it is so incredibly important because that's where all our balance comes from as well.

Aidan Noone [00:28:41]:
Yeah.

Anne Hogarth [00:28:42]:
But the, the oral system, it starts with sounds coming in, but when it gets into the brain, into the auditory cortex and up, then what happens is that you suddenly, you forget about the ear because it's all something that's happening to the emotions inside. A funny thing, a strange thing, but you probably resonate, it will resonate with you. I'm a strong advocate that anything through electrical means any like telephone calls, like Zoom Call, we're doing right now. We are actually just remastered, lights on, lights off. That's all we are, what we're seeing, what we're hearing. What we hear is an electronic signal coming through. It's not our voice. And with hearing aids, they've been working on it, trying to change it.

Anne Hogarth [00:29:43]:
But the sounds that you hear through a hear made are electronic, electronically remastered sounds and they haven't got emotion attached.

Aidan Noone [00:29:53]:
Yeah, that's really important because as you said, you know, we're just merely an electronic representation, you know, dots and dots on a screen. Whereas what we're. What you're talking about is getting to the root cause.

Anne Hogarth [00:30:10]:
That's right. And it's in the head. It's actually in here. It's the emotions that are attached that need to be adjusted when people. When. I mean, one of the things I used to always say to people was that getting back to the circle effect, when you hear a sound, what you've got to do is if it's a loud sound, go and see where the sound is coming from. People that hadn't worn hearing aids for a long time, what they. What they would do is they'd get them in and they would.

Anne Hogarth [00:30:45]:
The autonomic systems are in play and the sympathetic system has come into play where everything's a startled sound. They're jumping. You'll notice what I was doing there, turning around, because you could have a visual on what's making the sound to be able to assess whether it's danger or not. And that's exactly what happens with tinnitus. You're constantly in that agitated. I always used to say to people. Excuse me. I always used to say to people, do you sometimes have sore thigh muscles? Do the muscles in your legs sometimes hurt and they look at you? So you go, yeah, yes, yeah.

Anne Hogarth [00:31:29]:
Because you're in flight mode. Yeah, that's you constantly in flight mode. But you said about the medications. There, there's. I mean, the amount of medications have been tried. It is a multi. It's a multi. Multi million pounds worth of research waiting for the big breakthrough that's going to conquer tinnitus through medication will never happen.

Anne Hogarth [00:32:00]:
How can you stop the sparkle sound? Through medication. They've tried everything. They've tried zapping the various nerves. They electrocute the various nerves. It's like mild dct. It's a horrendous situation when in actual fact, it's all to do with emotions.

Aidan Noone [00:32:23]:
Yes.

Anne Hogarth [00:32:24]:
Because the emotions are what give the startle sound. When somebody gives you a fright, it's an emotional outburst and it's about emotions. You cannot medicate emotions. Not to that extent. Get through to that.

Aidan Noone [00:32:41]:
Yeah.

Anne Hogarth [00:32:45]:
How long tinnitus has been recognized?

Aidan Noone [00:32:48]:
Oh, tell us.

Anne Hogarth [00:32:49]:
Since many medieval times and before BC 2000 years BC there was actually a mention of it. Tinnitus has been around many, many centuries. Why has no one found a cure? Because there are very few audiologists who are also hypnotherapists.

Aidan Noone [00:33:11]:
Yes, yes. Here we have a condition and if I'm saying anything out of that's wrong, you correct me. Here we have a condition that is an auditory condition that is represented in the brain, in the auditory cortex, whatever, but yet the solution to the resolution to it, as it were, lies in the deeper part of the brain, where the emotions, the amygdala, the emotions in the amygdala and the other faculties of the brain. So hypnosis, or hypnotherapy specifically garners all these together and allows for the brain to heal itself.

Anne Hogarth [00:33:58]:
No, totally, Absolutely. The brain has the ability to assess and file away and calm the whole system down. And as soon as the brain can put the tinnitus into its right category, brain's just like a librarian. If you think on it, and it's got to file away the right thing in the right place, it does that. You don't even notice it's happening. I used to get. People say to me, they would come in and they would say, on the second visit, because I used to offer six sessions after the second, on the second session, they come back. Do you know what's funny? You were only talking to me, but I haven't noticed it so much this week.

Anne Hogarth [00:34:43]:
I'm going to look for it. Yes. Because the brain automatically does it quietly in the background, and it's only through not hearing it that suddenly, I mean, the success was just unreal. Every single person, without exception, that came to me, that had therapy using the technique I've just explained, completely got rid of the tinnitus sound. You can't actually get rid of it completely, as in completely destroy it. What you've got to do is you've got to. I always used to say to people, it's like a naughty little puppy looking for attention. It's constantly at.

Anne Hogarth [00:35:24]:
You want attention? You have to get that puppy back in its cage because you need that puppy to come out when it's. When it's. You want it to come out when it's the right time to come out. So you've got to get control over that, Poppy. Put it back in its cage, tell it to stay, and it will stay there until you're ready to let it come out.

Aidan Noone [00:35:48]:
Excellent. Now, there, as I said, there are two categories. I suppose that this podcast would appeal to those who are suffering tinnitus. And we also have the. Beg your pardon?

Anne Hogarth [00:36:08]:
Yeah, go for it.

Aidan Noone [00:36:10]:
And we also have the hypnotherapists out there who may want to be trained in this methodology. And maybe you talk to us about that.

Anne Hogarth [00:36:24]:
Yep, absolutely. If you want to learn more about it from the hypnotherapy side, from the therapist who wants to learn more, contact eaph, because there is a register being set up right now for the people who have qualified as registered tinnitus therapists. You go on that register and what will happen is that the hearing aid audiologists in Ireland will all learn about this, because obviously I'm still in contact with a lot of them, but I will be pushing this with them, that we now have hypnotherapists who are trained up in tinnitus therapy and what happens is that they will send people to them. Because I can tell you that the hearing aid audiology business do not want tinnitus sufferers to come anywhere near them. In fact, the standard was when somebody came in with tinnitus, what they would do is, oh, no, it's somebody with tinnitus, they'll never be away from the door because there's no, there's no absolute cure for them. A lot of the companies used to just stick hearing aids in and hope for the best, throw mud at a wall and hope some sticks. But all of them, without exception, hearing aid audiology is a science that is hard facts science, it's technology. Whereas tinnitus through hypnotherapy is the talking therapies.

Anne Hogarth [00:38:13]:
It's a different science, it's a different module, if you like. Totally separate, mutually exclusive. One's in the business of selling hearing aids, fitting and selling hearing aids, the other one's in the business of healing.

Aidan Noone [00:38:31]:
Yeah, it's a holistic approach, isn't it, really?

Anne Hogarth [00:38:34]:
It's a holistic approach, but it actually makes total sense when you stop and think about it, that, yeah, nothing works, despite all the years, the decades of research that's gone into it, that the brain has been prodded and everything done to it, and yet nothing conclusive has come out of it. But if you make the link between the two, between the audiology and the talking therapies, suddenly so make sense.

Aidan Noone [00:39:08]:
Yeah, you have some sort of a resolution, as it were.

Anne Hogarth [00:39:11]:
There's a resolution. And for anybody who has tinnitus, then go see a registered tinnitus therapist in Ireland. Up until recently, I was the only person who had both the hypnotherapy and the audiology qualifications in the uk. There was only two others that I knew of because they are mutually exclusive areas to work in. So bringing the two together, we now we don't need an audiology qualification to become a tinnitus therapist. All we need to do is want to help people with tinnitus yes. And if you join the eaph, you can go through the. You can get access to all the information you need, all the training you need, and there's somebody always available as backup, a phone call away or an email away.

Anne Hogarth [00:40:13]:
And that's me, always on call for anybody who needs any assistance in that respect. As I said, 25 years as a hearing aid audiologist, I was a fellow of both societies and I've been the Aphrodite clinical hypnotherapist since 2008. I started on the first course, so been around a long time. And while I'm still here, I would very much like to assist anybody who either has tinnitus direct the right way or who wishes to learn how to use the tools.

Aidan Noone [00:40:57]:
Excellent. Now, Anne, if you'll forgive me, just. I know you touched on it earlier and you spoke about it, but just for somebody out there who has, who's suffering or experiencing tinnitus, what advice would you give to them? Now, just as we're during this podcast, what's the one thing that sort of the do's and the don'ts, if you want, if you know what I mean.

Anne Hogarth [00:41:27]:
Never, ever get yourself into a quiet space because you will focus on it. You will, you will sit and you'll hear your tinnitus. And you tinnitus is only between 5 and 10 decibels, about above your threshold of hearing. That means us talking just now. The sound of my voice plus 5db is the sound tinnitus would be. So it's there, but it's not completely overwhelming. But if you are suffering from distressing tinnitus, what you'll do is you'll listen to that and not the voice. So anybody who's in the quiet, I would advise them not to be in the quiet if they can possibly avoid it.

Anne Hogarth [00:42:11]:
Even if you've just got a radio in the background or the Zen music, Widex Zen. And to practice that mindfulness, even if it's just a surface, take the mind off the tinnitus by feeling the surface under the fingers, analyzing it. Is it hot or cold? You know, is it warm? Is it rough? Is it smooth? Can I even imagine what color it is without looking at it? Things like that take your mind off the tinnitus and always, always look for things that are going to make you happy. That's until you see a registered tinnitus therapist and you can see them by going on the site. European Association Professional Hypnotherapist E A P H. Go on the site, find One in your area. There may even be some of them that will actually do zoom therapy. And within an hour, you can see the results.

Anne Hogarth [00:43:19]:
Something that has been suffered for years potentially and really destroyed your life. You're scared to go out in case the sound gets too loud for you to hear other people. You're never enjoying things because you're constantly worried about your tinnitus. No, you're not worried about your tinnitus. The tinnitus is a sign. It's actually a sign that something was wrong, whether temporary or permanent. So once you. Once you.

Anne Hogarth [00:43:51]:
I mean, by the time people look for help with their tinnitus, they've already been through audiologists, they've been through ent, they've had brain scans, they've had everything completely checked out. So what they're looking for is some sort of relief. Well, the relief will come at the end of the first session when you go away. You will actually start to feel the benefits. It will come on slowly, but it will be amazing how it will actually resolve your tinnitus.

Aidan Noone [00:44:29]:
Yes. Excellent. Well, Anne Hogart, this podcast has been worth more than gold. And not only to our members in EAPH and to the wider community of hypnotherapists, ethical, ethically trained hypnotherapists, but to people out there who are suffering, you know, day in, day out, 24 hours a day, maybe in some cases with this issue, this condition we call refer to as tinnitus, or ringing in the ears, as some people may call it. So for that, Ann, I want to thank you on all their behalf because as a result of your research and your vast research that we've all seen during the training, you have come up with this methodology and fashioned this methodology in such a way that it enables the sufferers out there, the many people suffering to go to. A ethically trained hypnotherapist is trained in working with people with tinnitus, that this will become resolved. Of course, there's no 100% guarantee. There's never a guarantee about anything.

Aidan Noone [00:45:48]:
But it's almost a sure, fast way of doing it.

Anne Hogarth [00:45:53]:
Yes. Can I add something else to this? Sure.

Aidan Noone [00:45:58]:
Beg your pardon? Go ahead.

Anne Hogarth [00:46:00]:
The reason I used to give six sessions, offer six sessions, was because after the first one, tinnitus was starting to become controlled. The second one, they would come back and report everything was fine. Third one, they would come back with the external issues in the life that were stressing them out, but the tinnitus is no longer an excuse for them to hold back on. So they come back with external issues that need resolved. And that's where it's just like a natural progression, because that can be sorted out as well under hypnosis.

Aidan Noone [00:46:38]:
Great. Well, Anne, this was wonderful, and I thank you so much for that. I know you're held in high esteem by all the members in the APH and indeed all of the audiology community. So I want to just thank you. Thank you. Until next time.

Anne Hogarth [00:47:01]:
Yay.

Aidan Noone [00:47:03]:
So, Anne Hogart, thank you so much. And I'm looking forward to the next time so that we can have feedback from the therapists who have been trained and show us the enormous results that they've been getting with this intervention. Thank you, Anne. Thank you so much.

Anne Hogarth [00:47:25]:
Thanks, Aidan.