Investigating mistreatment of migrant workers—journalist Pramod Acharya

Mistreatment of migrant workers, especially those forced to work in hot, dangerous conditions, created huge headlines in the run-up to the Qatar World Cup in 2022, thanks in part to the work of today’s guest—journalist Pramod Acharya. Pramod’s subsequent reporting also made the news globally. Also done in collaboration with journalists around the world, it spotlighted the conditions faced by Nepalis and others working in Amazon warehouses in Saudi Arabia, and led to Amazon changing some of its work practices.

For that reporting, Pramod and his colleagues have received numerous nominations and awards, including—for the Amazon work—the Excellence in International Reporting award from the Asian American Journalists Association and the Human Rights Press Award, from Human Rights Watch and others. Today he’ll tell us how and where he got his start in journalism, how migration from Nepal has changed in the decade since he started investigating it, and the role that the media might play in making positive change. 

Resources

One of Pramod’s reports on the Qatar World Cup
A report from Pramod on Amazon warehouses
Centre for Investigative Journalism, Nepal 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hi everyone, this is Marty. Thanks for joining me for another edition of Nepal Now: On the Move, where you hear from some of the enormous numbers of people leaving this country wedged between India and China as well as from the few who returned to settle in their homeland. And occasionally we'll call in an official or expert to help us understand these movements. 

Mistreatment of migrant workers, especially those forced to work in hot, dangerous conditions, created huge headlines in the run up to the Qatar World Cup in 2022 thanks in part to the work of today's guest, journalist Pramod Acharya. Pramod's subsequent reporting also made the news [00:01:00] globally also done in collaboration with journalists around the world. 

It spotlighted the conditions faced by Nepalis and others working in Amazon warehouses in Saudi Arabia, and led to Amazon changing some of its work practices for that reporting. Pramod and his colleagues have received numerous nominations and awards, including for the Amazon work, the Excellence in International Reporting Award from the Asian American Journalist Association and the Human Rights Press Award from Human Rights Watch, and others. Today, he'll tell us how and where he got his start in journalism, how migration from the Nepal has changed in the decades since he started investigating it, and the role that the media might play in making positive change. 

Pramod Acharya, welcome to Nepal now on the Move.  

Thank you Marty. [00:02:00]  

So we're definitely going to talk about your award-winning journalism on migration, but first, like every guest on the podcast, I want to hear about your own story, where you were born, grew up, went to school, that kind of thing.  

Yeah, I was born and raised in, in Chitwan, which is in southern Plains of Nepal. 

And and it was a village, pretty remote at the time. And, I did my, like high schools there. And I moved to the district headquarter, which is like a town. And I did, my, undergrad in journalism. That was the, that was the time when I, first introduced with her media and more precisely the radio stations. 

Then, after that I moved to Katmandu for my, higher education and doing journalism there and moved to the United States afterwards. Again, pursuing a higher degree in journalism and yeah, [00:03:00] I, I've been doing journalism for 10 plus years already. I got a sense to work in, different areas in different locations. 

So that, that's good.  

Yeah, definitely a bonus. So I'm wondering, when you started to think about reporting on migration, did you always have that in mind or did that come after? And, and what, what was it about the migration issue that attracted you?  

Yeah. I, I actually started my journal in career from a community registrations, and at the time my tax was to, produce audio reports and read the news lessons. 

I had to go to different events in the town and, interview different political leaders, social worker. My area of work was kind of limited. And, but I always wanted to do something, like impactful, bigger or like has, substantial values in societies. Of course, my work [00:04:00] at the radio station was important at the time because like it was in 2010 or so, right? 

The internet was not accessible that much to the public. And the public would rely on, on British stations to get informed. So I was in a way, contributing or supporting public to, to make them informed of what is happening in their societies. But at the same time, I always had some kinds of interest to do something bigger or, investigative kind of work. 

Plus since my childhood I've seen, people going abroad, for foreign employment to support their families. Even my friends who, who were from, very poor financial background, they were living in schools simply to go to, to the Gulf countries. And even in my college, I've seen friends going abroad without completing their, education just to make a [00:05:00] living. 

So I was thinking like, why, why this is happening. And I was kind of very interested to look into that matter at the time. And I, when I, I, when I came to Kathmandu and I started working for a Center for Investigative Journalism, I got a sense to do kind of longer from investigative world. I started looking into the human trafficking stuff, migration stuff. 

That, that's how I, got into this topic, when I did first report on human trafficking in I think 2014. And I realized, how important this topic was and why we should be doing this. And since then I have been continuing reporting on it.  

Okay, great. Were your first reports, audio also like for radio or did you then make the jump to print media? 

It was, it was not a audio report at the time because I already, left the radio station and I [00:06:00] started working for the Center for Investigative Journalism, which is like a non-profit newsroom in Kathmandu, and which would produce, and it still produces news reports, and also, gives those investigative reports to other many team outlets in Katmandu. 

Right. Okay. We're hearing a lot now about Nepal who are going to Eastern Europe and ending up fighting in the Russian Army. And we're also hearing about, women still going to work as domestics in Gulf countries, although there's a ban on them going and they're finding these other, illegal roots to travel. 

So those are, two of the major trends that we're hearing about these days. As a someone who's really immersed in this, what are some of the other trends that you're seeing in migration as it concerns Nepal? Hi everyone, this is Marty. I hope you're [00:07:00] enjoying this episode. If you are, could you please do one thing? 

Can you share the link with just one other person who you think might be interested? The more people who listen to Nepal now, the more likely it is that I'll be able to keep making the show. Thanks very much. Now back to the episode. 

There are so many, facets intertwined with migration issues in, in, in Nepal. Like you said, like people are going, Ukraine, people are going, Russia, people are going, Eastern Europe Poland, Romania, they're going Southern Europe, Croatia, Malta, Spain, Portugal, all a lot of countries. 

And the larger chunk of the Nepalese population is going to the Gulf. and in the past, I think like 15, 20 years, the number has increased so much. And recently, if we see the Nepalese have, they are basically going [00:08:00] everywhere in the world. They're coming to the United States, crossing, several countries, 10, 15 countries, and spending months and months, if not a year. 

So basically they are going everywhere, but if we classify the pattern of their migration trend, we can see that when it's like the, the migration for the foreign jobs, right, which is much more, focused in the Gulf regions and Malaysia. And there we can see skill, manpower, lowly skill, manpower and something like on AKI as well. 

But I don't know, whether we should say like they are on AKI or not. But, whether they're using this, term on scale, there a stereotype for those migrants, but like, those who are very limited skills, they're going through those countries. But they have contributed so much for the national, national economy. 

So that's one trend. And regarding, [00:09:00] migration of, the female populations, as you said, they are, they are living for different Gulf countries, although the Nepal government has, bans against them. But like it is continuing and it is happening so many other ways. 

They are leaving to India and, going other Gulf countries and, switching their countries, switching their destinations and, end up in the same situations that, we have seen for, for years and years. If we talk about the migration of the other populations, for example, those who, come to the United States or European countries. 

But they study and they decide to live here, right? We have seen like multiple, trends within, within migrations and they have like different interests and different cos so, so many issues jumbled together. [00:10:00]  

Yeah. Yeah. I, I know from talking to people in the last year or so, well, number one, it's like everyone under 30 wants to go somewhere. 

It seems almost unanimously. And, and one of the reasons why I switched the focus of this podcast just to migration was I was actually in, KU West after the earthquake in z quote, and just talking to different people. And it really hit me then how people are paying enormous sums of money compared to how much money you assume that people have. 

And they're taking these routes, which are a lot of them illegal and take months and even years to get to wherever they're hoping to get to. Often it's the United States. Is that also new or did it just take me a while to catch on to the fact that more and more Nepali now are [00:11:00] taking these very kind of unsafe, uncertain, and expensive route to get to somewhere else? 

It's not like they're going for a specific job that's been set up for them in country A, but it's like they just really want to get anywhere else where they think life is going to be better.  

Yeah, that's an interesting, interesting question and, I think like it's not a new thing. I think if you're talking particularly about the, the migration of a Nepalese population to the United States, who often come through the Mexico border, crossing many countries in between. 

I, I heard this kinds of inner trend like almost like 10 years back, and at the time, not many like instances I, I had seen, but I, I'm currently doing an an investigation into that now as well. And I have seen, [00:12:00] like many people are coming here in the recent years compared to 10 years back. 

When I, did conversation with them, what I realized was they didn't have like much like a bigger network or community here. But these days, they have a pretty strong community base here in United States in different, different states, in New York, in Texas in other locations as well. 

And they have friends, they have family, family members, immediate family members or in know, distant family members or distant relatives. So they, they find it easier to settle here once they arrive. And the, the, the human smugglers or the, the essence of the human is smugglers. What they, what they tell them is they just kind of provide high sounding dreams, right? 

It's kind of life changing thing for you. So go there. So if they, [00:13:00] convince in such a way, these people always, always desperate for jobs, money, So they think okay, let's, take a risk and go. And at least if I take risks now, it'll be good for me in rest of my life or for my entire family. 

before the past, let's say five years, I don't remember hearing about Nepali going to the US through the Mexican border. But then again, like you said, you heard about it 10 years ago, so it was obviously happening, and I guess it's just a matter of volume, right?  

Yeah, and I was actually, trying to do an investigative piece on that stuff at the time, and for some reasons, I kind of stopped it in between. 

I'm doing it now, so it, it, it is happening, but, with more intensity.  

Let's, switch gears just a little bit, and you are, as far as I know, you're a freelancer, [00:14:00] right? So that means that you're, doing your reports and selling them to various media around the world. It's a global market now, I, I think, which is positive in, in many ways, and I'm wondering, as a freelancer, do you find that the media in general is more aware of migration issues and more willing to report about them? 

I would say yes, migration is such a, such an important and big issue. So, media outlets all over the world are trying to, cover what is actually happening, in different parts of the world and they are kind of interested in this topic. Yeah. But I would say like the, the coverage we have now should be, increased. 

because day by day, the number of people, migrating from one country to another country is increasing. And, the problems they are facing are increasing. And [00:15:00] new and new problems are offering every day. And they have to deal with all those kind of problems. south Asian populations going, European countries working in like agricultural sector. 

They are facing, like problems there, myriad consequences, remain in, limbo because of your, their, their aspirations to be in the country and, The metrics of the problems associated with, migration, their visa status, their jobs, their payment, and they always find themselves in troubles like people, Nepalese, people traveling to the Gulf, they have classic migration problems like low pay, and kafala system. 

Underpayment, waste theft. If you are talking about the, the women traveling to, the Gulf Masons from Bangladesh, or India or Nepal, they are being, harassed ripped. [00:16:00] And if we go further, same thing that are happening all over the world. So this is such a such an important topic. I feel like the journalism, the media outlets, the global media outlets, they are, they're doing pretty good job, but, the, the, the scale, the magnitude should be really, really bigger, I guess.  

Right. Okay. And it sounds to me, but I, I don't want to assume that you've kind of set your beat as n Nepali and maybe South Asian migrants. Is that your focus, at least for the moment?  

I'm doing, most of the reporting on migration stuff in South Asia. 

but I'm also covering all other human rights issues and climate change. But my, my primary focus is on, on migration.  

Okay. And I'm curious because you mentioned earlier when you were talking about, going from your schooling to a career and you had this. [00:17:00] Desire to do something that contributed. 

Do you see this reporting on Nepal, migrants, migrants as a contribution to Nepal, to society, to improving things? Or is that just a, a, a lucky outcome if it happens? How do you view that?  

Of course, we do journalism for some reasons, right? Contribute something to the society or the people we, we cover. 

Not only me, those journalists who have been, covering, migration issues, they are definitely, definitely contributing to the people they have covered or the society they are in. Right. But at the same time I feel like it's also kind of. Coincidence if it creates impact or something like that. 

But if we do something consistently, if we write about migrations, the exploitations of the workers, the abuses of the workers consistently, [00:18:00] and it definitely, it helps to create impact in the society. I can, I can provide an example of my own recent world. when I did, reporting on the abuses and exploitations of the Nepalese, migrants in Saudi Arabia, who were working in Amazon warehouses. 

And, it was kind of pretty tough reporting. It took like long time, a year to investigate that. But once the report came out, then Amazon kind of acknowledged the problems that were occurring in the warehouses, the acknowledged that, The, the workers were facing problems and after that tried to, improve the labor standards and they had like discussions with the other, contracting companies to improve the situation of the migrant workers. 

And also they provided the compensation. For the [00:19:00] migrants over 700, migrants, they reimburse the, the recruitment fees and other costs that the workers paid to get those jobs. So that kind of impact we can create with our reporting if we really, do investigative work, invest much more time in it. 

So I would say like Amazon is not only me who cover migration or any other kinds of topic. If they do it consistently and continue, trying to hold the power people accountable, then it will definitely, definitely create impacts.  

Okay. And I'm glad you brought that up. It was my next question. 

First of all, congratulations for that reporting and the recognition because I see that you've got many nominations and, and some awards already for that report that you did in collaboration with other media. I understand. And then the other reporting that I know where I got to know your [00:20:00] reporting was on the World Cup and the conditions, for workers who are building the infrastructure for the World Cup. 

And I believe that also got quite a bit of recognition. And I'm wondering, I mean obviously you're, you're happy about winning awards and, and being recognized, but I mean, beyond that, do you feel like. It's a recognition of the hard work that you put in over the years, or is it also a recognition of the importance of the issue? 

I mean, does it signal that there's going to be change in the issue, or how do you put it into perspective, I guess?  

Yeah, I think, it's both, of course, it's, it's a matter of happiness to me, to, to be recognized with different kinds of awards from different countries. These awards are also also [00:21:00] important in a way. 

That these kind of awards and recognitions really help to bring much more attention to the topic that I have cover. So I always feel like the, the migrations, the, the exploitations and abuses of the migrant workers, these are the issues we really need to cover. And we, we really need to, strengthen our capacity to report on those issues as well. 

And we have, we have to have like more and more coverage on it. So I feel like, when I was awarded from the Human rights was, the Asian American Journalist Associations and when I was nominated for for the award by Deadline Club, investigative reporters, One, world Media, Ms. 

International, international Liberal Organizations, all those kind of organizations, they really, help to bring more attentions to the topic I cover. So I really feel like, these these kind of awards not only, made me happy, [00:22:00] but also help. To bring the issues that workers themselves have, have been facing for years and years, but not getting much more attentions by far. 

And I have al already said in different, awards functions that I really wanna dedicate my awards to the, to, to the workers and the families who have suffered and who have lost their family members or, suffer themselves in different, different, work setting or anywhere.  

We're talking about the, the Amazon reporting that you did. 

So Amazon made these commitments to improve things, but of course, I, I would imagine that you see one of your roles now to make sure that they in fact, do what they committed to do.  

Yeah, they have, they have, they have already done some kinds of changes and improvements and, reimburse, the amounts to the workers already. 

But the thing is, as a journalist, I always think of Amazon is such a big, company, [00:23:00] right? And owned by the such a, a wealthy man. And I feel like, wherever there are Amazon facilities all over the world, they have to treat the workers, fairly and, they have to respect the rights of the workers not only in Saudi Arabia. They have to change the situation of workers. all countries, right? As a journalist, I always, think of doing reporting about other workers or workers in other Amazon facilities or something like that. So I feel like it is, it is a good thing that they, considered, the the labor violence in the, warehouses. 

But it's also, important to, to make sure they have changed or improved the situations for workers all over the world.  

Right, like you, you said Amazon is everywhere now and ideally in every Amazon location there would be someone like you, a [00:24:00] journalist who's able to, to follow and monitor and make sure things are going well. 

And that makes me think again about collaboration, right? You worked on that reporting with other media outlets and. 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, this kind of collaboration was not as common. Do you feel like that gives you a lot more opportunities and, and resources and just kind of broadens the type and amount of reporting you can do? 

Or is it not that simple?  

I think it you are, you are totally right, because when I was, starting my journalism career, I di I didn't know that we could do such kind of report and we could do such kind of collaborations. But in the past few years I've seen and I myself have experienced that. 

We really can do collaborations, all over the world, produce important stories, having con having inputs from journalists, from different [00:25:00] countries, more, specifically, in migration. It's, it's a transnational issues and we have to, we have to unpack. So many issues intertwine together. 

So when a person living from one country ends up in another country in. Pretty bad situation. And we have to show the both sides, like why he leaves and what he is actually facing in the destinations. So the nature of this topic itself is intricate. So we have to musts to collaborations, and that's how we can, unpack the, the broader and comprehensive picture of the issues. 

And of course, like when I did, the, the Amazon reporting at the time it was. Like a collaboration among different media outlets and reporters from different countries. And it helped to, to investigate the issues more deeply. And it also helped to [00:26:00] bring more attention to the topic because, for example, the Trafficking Inc. 

where I worked was the, the project of, with National Consortium of Investigative Journalists. Right. But like it had, collaborated with, the Guardian us, the New Yorker, NBC News, Arab reporters for Investig reporting and different other, media outlets. So doing that, we. We publish stories in Arabic language. 

We produce stories in English. We produced stories in Nepali language as well. The outis was huge, right? And not only that, the stories were picked up by, different other outlets home. We didn't have. Collaboration at the time, and also picked up by different kinds of, advocacy groups. 

So I feel like this is how we should work to create impact, like the collaboration among journalists and collaboration between the advocacy groups and, journalists. [00:27:00]  

Yeah, I think this is a really good example of that collab, collaborative impact for sure. So you mentioned the work you're doing now on, Nepali's crossing into the US from the southern border. 

Is there anything else you're working on that you can tell us about at the moment?  

Besides that, I'm working on a documentary now, it's about human rights situation in the Gulf Prison. I couldn't, specify the country and all the specific details now, but I think it's, would be out very soon, I guess within, within couple of months. 

Okay. That sounds very interesting. So please, let me know when that comes out. Thank you, Ramo. It's been really nice to talk to you and, hear more about the important work that you're doing. Best of luck and again, congratulations on your success on your reporting so far.  

Thank you so much, Marty. 

Thank you so much for having me.[00:28:00]  

Thanks again to Pramod for chatting with me today. Let us know what you thought by sending a text message. Just click on the link at the top of the notes to this episode. You can also email me at Nepal now, pod@gmail.com, or leave a comment on any of our social channels. Next week we'll be back with another episode of Nepal now right now for feedback from listeners, updates about the show and news about migration in Nepal. 

I'll talk to you then.