His children all migrated but Rajendra is happy in Nepal

Hi everyone. I have to admit that I had a pretty good idea of what this episode was going to be about, how it was going to unfold, as they say.  I was talking to the father of three daughters, grown daughters, all living overseas, and I thought that he and his wife were planning to go live with them in the US, but I was wrong. 

You're gonna have to listen to find out exactly how I was wrong, but I will say that it was one of the most enjoyable interviews I've done in a long time.  I spent just over an hour with Rajendra, but I think we hit it off pretty quickly and got into some pretty personal areas quite fast and had a lot of fun, some laughs, and I think he also enjoyed it.  I'm really curious to hear what you think. So let me know. 

I want to give a shout out to S.U.,  I only have their initials, who posted online about Nepal Now:  they are "fascinating and insightful interviews and discussions that share so much about lived experience in Nepal. I am listening while on a trip in Nepal." 

Thank you very much for that review, which S.U. posted in May, 2024. I feel bad that I only found it recently.  If you're interested in supporting the show, but, can't do it financially at the moment, one of the next best things you can do is leave us a review. It  might help introduce a newcomer to the show and turn them into a listener, which would be great.

Transcript

Rajendra 0:00

My friends, some of them they say that you have to go to America, live with your daughters. I told them, I am happy in Nepal. Because I am free in Nepal. I am independent in Nepal. I can go wherever I like.

Marty 0:30

Hi everyone. I have to admit that I had a pretty good idea of what this episode was going to be about, how it was going to unroll, as they say. I was talking to the father of three daughters, grown daughters, all living overseas, and I thought that he and his wife were planning to go live with them in the US, but I was wrong. You're gonna have to listen to find out exactly how I was wrong, but I will say that it was one of the most enjoyable interviews I've done in a long time. I spent just over an hour with Rajendra, but I think we hit it off pretty quickly and got into some pretty personal areas quite fast and had a lot of fun, some laughs, and I think he also enjoyed it. I'm really curious to hear what you think. So let me know. Welcome to Nepal now. My name is Marty Logan. This is the podcast that talks to some of the hundreds of thousands of people who migrate from Nepal every year this small country surrounded by global giants, China and India. And what we're trying to do is talk to them before they leave and then catch up with them some months later to see how they've settled in their new country. Occasionally we get people doing the reverse. They're coming home after years, living overseas, and we get to talk to them after they've returned and got accustomed to their country once again. I want to give a shout out to S.U., I only have their initials, who posted online about Nepal Now: they are"fascinating and insightful interviews and discussions that share so much about lived experience in Nepal. I am listening while on a trip in Nepal. So far, I have especially enjoyed episodes on women's experiences of marriage, the many impacts of road building and contrasting accounts of migration to and from Nepal." So S.U. had obviously gone into our back catalog of episodes, which now goes back to 2020. Thank you very much for that review, which S.U. posted in May, 2024. I feel bad that I only found it recently. But it's because I don't check all of the dozens now of platforms where you can listen to podcasts and obviously leave reviews as well. I kind of stick to the two or three big ones. So I'm gonna have to start doing that now, I think, kind of touring some of these other websites. If you're interested in supporting the show, but, can't do it financially at the moment, one of the next best things you can do is leave us a review. It might help introduce a newcomer to the show and turn them into a listener, which would be great. So, please, take a few minutes to talk about the show in general or a particular episode, wherever you listen. I'll really appreciate it. And now onto my chat with Rajendra Shrestha. Rajendra Shrestha, welcome to Nepal Now: On The Move podcast.

Rajendra 3:50

Thank you for calling me for the interview. And very happy to meet you here.

Marty 3:56

Thank you. So we're here today to talk about migration. But before we get into the present and the future, let's talk a little bit about the past. If you could tell me where you were born and where you grew up and did your studies.

Rajendra 4:12

Yes. I, I was born in Kathmandu, it is called Yengal Tol, near to Lagan Tol. Then I was took out by my grandmother from mother's side to Bombay for eight years. Then I came back to again Kathmandu. Then I started my life over here. I completed my study MA in Nepal. Then I started my job as a lecturer in TU, Tribhuvan University, and I have been married for 50 years.

To Bombay and back

Marty 4:56

Wow, congratulations. Thank you. That's a long time. Yeah. So, I have to ask you, Bombay do you know why she took you to Bombay?

Rajendra 5:06

I actually do not know, what was the reason for taking me to Bombay. But I think there were many children here, over here in Kathmandu, from my father's side also and from my uncle's side. So it would have been very difficult for my mother to take care of me. So, my grandmother took me to Bombay.

Marty 5:32

And you were there for eight years. Do you have any memories of that time?

Rajendra 5:36

Some memories, not very much.

Marty 5:38

It sounds like you don't really feel an attachment to the place.

Rajendra 5:42

I don't feel anything to Bombay. Because I was carried to Bombay when I was very small. I was one and a half years. So I don't remember when they took me to over there. And I also don't remember why they send me back in Kathmandu, don't know. So I think in Nepal and India, the children have, they do not have any wish. What their mothers or grandmothers, grandparents or parents like, they do with the children.

Marty 6:20

Right, right. They have no control over what happens to them. Maybe that's changing a little bit now.

Rajendra 6:26

Now, yes. Something is changing.

Marty 6:29

So, when you came back to Kathmandu, and you were growing up in central Kathmandu, very busy place, then life just became normal.

Rajendra 6:39

It was very difficult for me in the beginning because I do not know Nepali, I could not speak Nepali, I could speak only Hindi and a little bit English. But English at that time, English was very difficult in Kathmandu. So I used to speak Hindi, and all the neighbours also speak Hindi with me.

Marty 7:05

That's one of the benefits of watching Bollywood. Yeah. Everyone understands and speaks...

Rajendra 7:10

Everyone understands Hindi, and they speak Hindi.

Marty 7:15

That's so interesting. And now, do you still speak it sometimes now, or not at all?

Rajendra 7:20

I speak sometimes Hindi. Newari is my mother language, so I can speak Nepali, Newari, Hindi.

Marty 7:29

English. Yes. Here we are. Oh, that's great. That's a very interesting story. And then, okay, you, you grew up in Kathmandu, you had a normal life, went to school, graduated, went to university and got your degree. Settled down and married, started to raise a family. So how many in your family?

Rajendra 7:51

Now we are five. Me, with my wife, and three daughters, but they are abroad.

Marty 8:00

Right. So we're going to get to that. And we were talking earlier before we started, and you told me that you built a house thinking that it was going to be forever a house for this big family. Yeah. And then what happened?

Rajendra 8:15

Yeah, I built a big house. It was five and a half stories. But later when all of the three daughters went outside abroad, then I thought that It will be not, not the joyful for me. It will be difficult for me in future. Staircases are there, which may create health problem to me. So I sold it out and migrated to Hattiban.

Marty 8:48

Right. So that was your short migration to like the suburbs of Kathmandu in Hattiban. So how long ago was it that your first daughter migrated?

Daughter #2 is first to go

Rajendra 8:58

No. First of all, my first daughter didn't migrate. She went to Bangladesh for the study,'pharmi' And she, she was awarded gold medal

Marty 9:12

Sorry, she studied in? Bangladesh. What subject?

Rajendra 9:16

Pharmacy.

Marty 9:17

Pharmacy, right, okay.

Rajendra 9:19

Then she came back here and worked for two years in a college. Then after that she applied for scholarship and she got scholarship. And then she went to America. But before that, my second daughter, she went to America after finishing, school. I mean, plus two.

Marty 9:43

So she went, the second daughter went to do further studies or?

Rajendra 9:47

Yeah, for further studies. she completed, graduation.

Marty 9:52

And then did she come back or she just stayed?

Rajendra 9:54

No, then she stayed over there.

Marty 9:56

Okay, okay. So, how long ago was this roughly?

Rajendra 10:00

Nearly 20 years.

Marty 10:02

20 years ago. She went, she didn't come back. Were you surprised that she didn't come back?

Rajendra 10:08

No, I wasn't surprised because I knew that.

Marty 10:12

How did you know that she wouldn't come back?

Rajendra 10:15

Because once she told me that, she will not study anything over here. She is going to abroad. She, she has to go to America, and she will work over there. She was determined for that.

Marty 10:31

And, and when she told you that at the time, how did you feel about that?

Rajendra 10:35

What should I feel? I thought that it is her life. She has to spend her life as she wishes. Because I could not spend my life in childhood, as I wished, and I allowed them to do whatever they like.

Marty 10:54

Right, so when you were a child, you got taken to Bombay, you had no option, you couldn't express your opinion.

Another daughter makes the move

Rajendra 11:01

When I was sent to Bombay, I was very small. That was a different thing. But after that, after eight years, at least they had to ask me whether you would like to stay in Bombay or Nepal. Okay. So that's a very strong memory for you. Yeah. Very strong experience. When your second daughter stayed in the US, like you expected, were you also thinking that I have two more daughters one will stay in Nepal? No? No, no. then my eldest daughter, she got married, yeah, and after that she applied for the scholarship.

Marty 11:45

Also in US? Yeah. Okay. So then you knew she was going to go, but did you think she would come back?

Rajendra 11:55

No. I never asked her. Because she was already married. So, what their new family will do, or will think, she had to do.

Marty 12:07

Okay, okay. So she went there to do her studies and then she stayed behind. And I guess quite quickly you understood that she was going to stay in America. Again, did you have any positive or negative feeling when she decided that?

Rajendra 12:24

No. I didn't have any feeling because I thought it is also her life.

Marty 12:30

I told you this when we were talking earlier outside, I think that's a very unusual for Nepalese, especially maybe Nepali grandparents, or parents, to think that my children are gone, it's their life, let them decide. Usually what you hear is they should be coming back or why did they go? They should have stayed behind. Who will look after us? You didn't...?

Rajendra 12:57

No, I never thought of that. Because, I should look after me. Sometimes the people may think that my wife will have to look after me. Or, I will have to look after her. But, everyone has to think of their own life. Because my life is my own life. I have to live independently. Similarly, my wife has to live independently. Though we are living together, but she has her own life, have my own life. I think in that way.

Marty 13:35

That strikes me as a very different way of thinking, in Nepal especially. Who thought like that? Did your parents also give you that idea, or is it just you?

Rajendra 13:46

No, it's my own idea. And my third daughter, let me talk about my third daughter.

Marty 13:53

Sure. Yeah, please do.

Three daughters in America

Rajendra 13:54

She was with me when two daughters were abroad and she said that I will not go abroad. Then she started studying accountancy So all the semesters she completed over here, and lastly, I said that go to London to complete last semester so that you will get a very good job in Nepal because Nepalese people think that someone has returned from abroad, he or she must have a good knowledge of everything. So in that way, I sent her to London. But once I send her to London, she enjoyed London. She also did not return. Okay. Then I said to her to go to America so that all the three daughters will have to be in the same country.

"Why should I be unhappy?"

Marty 14:56

And she was happy to go. Yeah. And now you told me that they're all working. They're all in their careers. Okay, tell me honestly, honestly are you happy that all your daughters are not in Nepal? In that sense, I can say that I am very happy with the daughters not having with me or not here in Nepal. If they would have been here, I think we will be very happy. But if they are not here, why should I be unhappy? I think that I should not be unhappy. I am happy on my own way. They are happy on their own way. But I have to tell you, my daughter just went to Canada to study university, first year, and she left in August, 2024, and I was so affected by it. And I was so sad, walking past her room and missing her every day. It took me a long time to adjust to that. You didn't feel the physical absence of your daughters like that?

Rajendra 16:13

No, not in that sense. I think in Canada or in America, it is a common way to live, right? When the children grew up, they leave the parents. So it is a common way.

Marty 16:29

Yeah.

Rajendra 16:31

Then how do you feel that so?

Marty 16:34

That's a good question. When I have the answer, I'll tell you. And I, I'm very curious also. I know that you, you mentioned you are independent, your wife is independent. So you cannot speak for your wife. But in your opinion, how does your wife feel about not having your daughters here?

Rajendra 16:52

She may feel bad. I actually don't know how does she feel. But I think that sometimes I feel she's feeling bad not having daughters in Nepal.

Marty 17:07

And what about friends of yours? Do friends try to tell you that this isn't the right way? Do you feel pressure from your peers?

Rajendra 17:16

No. My friends, some of them they say that you have to go to America, live with your daughters. I told them, I am happy in Nepal. Because I am free in Nepal. I am independent in Nepal. I can go wherever I like. Because in America, I cannot drive. my daughters they did not allow me to have any sort of driving license. So there, I am always dependent on daughters or their family. But in Nepal, I am free.

Marty 17:55

Yeah, okay. So no plans to maybe migrate to America. I know the timing is very bad for politics, but

Rajendra 18:05

Timing is very bad. There may be the time when I will have to migrate in America. I cannot say now the future is uncertain. But in my opinion if I can stay in Nepal, I will stay in Nepal. But if circumstances do not allow me to, then I will have to go to America.

Many families in the same situation

Marty 18:33

Right. Right. Okay. Do you have any friends or colleagues who are in the same situation? Their children are all abroad?

Rajendra 18:41

There are many. Many families, parents are staying here, their children are abroad. There's some, they feel bad. I know that.

Marty 18:55

And usually, what is the solution? Do they go to be with their children, or do their children eventually return?

Rajendra 19:03

No, the children do not return. They sometimes go to children and again come back.

Marty 19:09

So like the long term visiting, you go for three months or six months and then you come back. I know from my own experience that can be very difficult because life there is so much different than life here.

Rajendra 19:21

Yeah, very different, very different. You cannot go cannot walk alone in New Jersey especially. In New York it is simple, but in New York it is very difficult.

Marty 19:36

In New Jersey?

Rajendra 19:37

Yeah.

Marty 19:37

Because you have to drive, the distance is too great.

Rajendra 19:40

Too great.

Marty 19:40

Yeah. Yeah.

Rajendra 19:43

So I don't like to go.

Marty 19:45

No, I, I understand that. All I'm saying is that it's a, it's not an opinion that you hear very often in Nepal, from my experience. So let me ask you, like, to step outside of your own experience and to look at the big picture for Nepal. We know that so many people are leaving Nepal, and some say they're going to study only, but many also stay behind. And it seems every year the number is growing. Every young person I meet wants to leave the country. Yeah. For the good of the country, for the health of the country, do you think this is a positive or a negative trend?

Rajendra 20:24

Actually, no one can say that it is a positive situation. First, the manpower, the labour force are going abroad. There is no labour force working in Nepal. We cannot do anything using our labour force in Nepal, we have to depend on India. If the Indians do not come here for work, then we cannot build anything for everything, smallest to biggest And second, for the development, we need labour, working manpower. In Nepal, we grew the children from childhood to adult, they get some skill that we invest on them. After investing on them, we send them abroad so that other countries benefiting. I think it's a very bad situation. And the leaders are happy with having some, what do you say? The remittance. Yeah, remittance.

Marty 21:35

Yeah, the money they send back. It's not an easy problem to fix, but do you think the best thing would be to create more jobs here, or to get the graduates, Nepalese who graduate in another country, try to bring them back with their skills.

Rajendra 21:52

So that we can develop our country. We should not depend on remittance.

Marty 21:59

But you know what, everyone keeps saying for many years now, remittance is very risky, one day it will stop. But it doesn't stop. Even during COVID, it was still increasing.

Rajendra 22:13

It will not stop. Remittance will not stop. Because as long as we are able to send manpower to abroad, remittance will be continued coming to Nepal.

Marty 22:24

Do you think the problem can be solved?

Rajendra 22:26

Problem can be solved if the new jobs are created, but it cannot be solved by the present situation.

Marty 22:37

have to say, I don't know if you mentioned it, you are an economist by training. So if anyone has good ideas, it should be an economist who can give us maybe some positive thoughts about it. But it's a very tough,

Rajendra 22:52

it is possible only if we can change drastically everything in Nepal. First, we have to change the political situation, then economical situation more or less in a stable condition because in the hilly areas, the lands are barren. No one is doing anything for the new crop. That's the very bad situation because we produce nothing. We only import everything. This cannot create a good situation in Nepal and we cannot bring youth back to the Nepal unless and until this, all these situations are solved.

Marty 23:35

Big challenge. Have any of your daughters ever talked about maybe coming back and doing work here?

Rajendra 23:42

They may come back. Youngest daughter will not come.

Marty 23:48

She's most, at home in, in...

Rajendra 23:50

No, as I said to you, she's married to American.

Marty 23:55

Right, right. Okay, okay. So very unlikely. Although I'm a Canadian and I live in Nepal, so it's possible. It is possible. But unlikely. Before we met, I thought that maybe you were thinking, from what I heard from other people, maybe you were thinking of, migrating to the US, but it sounds like not very likely unless you feel a real requirement to go to be with your family and get family support.

Rajendra 24:24

Yes, and until I am forced to go over there.

Marty 24:27

Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, I'm really happy to talk to you and hear your opinions. Like I said, they're not the most common opinions, but that's what makes them more interesting. Is there something else that you want to say about this subject or about your own experience before we finish?

Rajendra 24:44

I don't have to say anything, but I think people in Nepal, why do they think that they should migrate to other countries? Though my own children, they are migrated to America, but in Nepal, it is possible. All of them will not be getting satisfied jobs. Actually, the young people, they are migrating other countries only because they are not satisfied with the jobs in Nepal. They do not get well paid. They think. Only because of that.

Marty 25:21

Okay. Once again, thank you very much for talking to me. I really enjoyed it.

Rajendra 25:25

Thank you for inviting me over here.

Marty 25:26

Okay. Bye bye. Bye. Thanks again to Rajendra Shrestha for frankly sharing his opinions about migration and his family. I'm looking forward to your comments about what he had to say. You can text us using the link, which is at the top of the show notes. You can also, of course, contact us on social. We're@nepalnowpod on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and now Blue Sky. You can email us. We are nepalnowpod(at)gmail.com. I will talk to you next time.