Never Been Sicker

NBS #135: Inside the Failures of Modern Mold Testing with Josh Rachal of Texas Mold Inspectors

• Michael Rubino • Season 2 • Episode 135

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What happens when multiple inspectors tell a family their home is safe, but they're still getting sick?

In this episode of Never Been Sicker, Michael Rubino sits down with mold investigator Josh Rachal of Texas Mold Inspectors to discuss hidden mold, flawed inspection practices, military housing investigations, and why so many families struggle to get real answers.

Josh shares stories from the field, explains why traditional air sampling often misses contamination, and discusses what homeowners should know when searching for the root cause of health issues linked to water-damaged buildings.

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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
00:29 Meet Josh Rachal
01:08 Investigating Mold in Military Housing
03:41 Why Many Mold Inspections Miss the Problem
06:31 The Problem with Air Sampling
08:52 Why Some Inspectors Never Find Mold
10:57 What Fear-Mongering Actually Looks Like
13:25 The Cost of Bad Inspections
17:59 Real-World Examples of Hidden Mold
21:18 Mold Remediation Mistakes
25:53 Passing Strict Remediation Standards
29:54 Why Documentation Matters
32:44 Construction Defects and Building Failures
34:35 How Do We Fix This Problem?
39:34 Mold, Health, and Economic Impact
45:20 Fighting for Industry Change
56:40 Finding Mold Hidden Behind Walls
01:00:07 Showing Airflow and Exposure Pathways
01:03:21 Why Families Need Real Answers
01:08:51 Final Thoughts

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SPEAKER_01

The amount of mold that we're finding in these homes is destroying the families out there.

SPEAKER_02

My name is Michael Rubino. I'm on a personal mission to make sure you don't get sick inside your own home.

SPEAKER_00

I knew there was something wrong. I'm just so relieved there's something that you can do about it.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Never Been Sicker. I'm your host, indoor air quality expert, Michael Rubino. And today's very special guest, Josh. Go ahead and tell everybody why you're here, Josh.

SPEAKER_01

I'm here because you invited me. In fact, I just found out the name of your show. I didn't know about it. So my name is Josh Rochelle. I'm the owner of Texas Mold Inspectors. Um I am a mold assessment consultant licensed through the state of Texas. And in Florida, I'm licensed as a mold assessor through the state of Florida. And I come here often to build cases for military families. So that's why I'm in Florida and got to run into Michael.

SPEAKER_02

Well, good to see you again. Yeah, so we were on base probably a couple months ago now, together. We saw some of these military housing sites, and uh we found quite a bit of mold, yeah?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah. Um, but we also saw a lot of incompetence, I think. That also leads to mold. I think it's safe to say that. But yes, but the amount of mold that we're finding in these homes is it's disgusting. And and really that's a small way of saying it. I mean, I would like to use a lot more colorful language, but um it's shocking, it's depressing. Like l I don't like coming here. Someone has to, I think. But uh it's destroying the families out there.

SPEAKER_02

And to be clear, like you wouldn't want to live in these places with your family. Hell no.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I I would I would find a way to get out of the service if I had to stay on base. Uh whatever it took. Meaning, and and most of these families are in such a situation. They can't afford to get out. I think it's like a minimum of $10,000. And they don't have that kind of money because all their money goes to pay for the house that's slowly killing them.

SPEAKER_02

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01

It is disgusting. I think um, so I was here the past two days, did four homes yesterday, four homes today. And I think um, I wasn't counting, but I think I met a total of six children that were considered autistic. Maybe some had a question mark the the parents didn't even know yet. Wow. But almost everyone I met was sick, actively sick, I should say. Um so it's depressing and and quite despicable how the families are getting treated. So I've been coming, I've been doing this for over a year now. And let's say the military or the privatized military housing company, they say they have the family's best interests at heart. Why aren't they calling me to ask, what's going on? Where's all the mold, Josh? Why aren't they doing something about it? The first stance that the privatized housing takes, let's say when they see one of my reports, is oh, yeah, they're not gonna agree, they won't even look at the report that I wrote. They tried to dismiss it. Um and they also take a posture of getting attorneys involved. If they really had the family's best interests at heart, why would they take that stance? Why wouldn't they say they should just say, thank God, someone found the mold because the company we're hiring, they can't find anything. That's what's disgusting.

SPEAKER_02

Now, let's talk about that for a second. The companies that they are hiring, they're not finding anything. Correct. Now, when I look at it from a systemic standpoint, I think there's like 50,000 companies out there. I find that most of the companies out there can't find anything. Um part partly because the ideology, right? I mean, a lot of these guys want to just air sample in the center of rooms and call it the gold standard. Which is bullshit. Right. So one of the reasons why it is BS is because it only collects 75 liters of air, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. On average, sometimes they'll bump it up to 150, so a 10-minute sample.

SPEAKER_02

So 10 minutes, 150 liters of air. But in a 10 by 10 room with eight-foot ceilings, there's about 22,000 liters of air in it in that room.

SPEAKER_01

I'll agree with you on that. They're not getting anything. Wait, wait, it's well known it's a snapshot in time, right?

SPEAKER_02

Well, sure. But it's if you take 75 liters of air and you divide it by 22,000, it's actually less than 1%. So we're only analyzing less than 1% of the total volume of air. Aaron Powell Yeah, but who cares?

SPEAKER_01

That's the gold standard. I mean, who are we to question that, right? Well, just normal human beings, I guess, right? Trevor Burrus, Jr. So that means the the mold is not doing what it's naturally designed to do, which is sporalate. Not in this house. This house is special because the air sample said that the mold is not in the air. Because they're a professional inspector, right? Yeah. I'll try not to cuss anymore. It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough.

SPEAKER_02

This this episode might not get a clean rating, but that's okay. So when we look at it from that perspective, like the technology came out, it became the gold standard, but it's been a technology that's just been misused.

SPEAKER_01

Well, the way I look at okay, an air sample would be like this. If we have a scale designed for an elephant, it's gonna measure in tons, let's say, right? Sure. Um so if I step on that scale, it shows zero. So I'm weightless, right? So we're using a meth a sampling methodology that literally is designed to show nothing. And I always say this if the air sample results give me a positive number, then I can work with that. The overwhelming majority of the time we're getting false negatives, so I can't rely on that. Right. It has nothing to do with whether or not mold exists in a home or a structure if someone has zero readings or close to it.

SPEAKER_02

Right. I mean, it's just not helpful. And so, I mean, when you look at it from that perspective.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, wait, wait, wait. You said it's not helpful. Now, if I'm the property management company, I'm the landlord, I'm the building owner. Oh, it's helpful to you. Then it's very, very helpful. That's the gold standard, then, right? Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

So do you think it's by design? You think these guys are just twisting and and and turning their words based upon who and who is paying them?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. But but now let's take it a step further. Because I I had a choice when I first got into this industry. I could do what every other inspector does. I could knock out, even though, yes, while I'm here in Florida, I did four homes yesterday, four today. That's because I'm very limited, you know, with how many days I can be here, basically. So we're cramming in a lot of assessments. And actually, if you ask me, I'm only, let's say, doing a quarter of what I normally or typically do in a home during a standard assessment. So I'm even while I'm here on this Air Force base, I'm cutting my assessments down by 75%. I'm still finding so much mold that I can confidently say that these homes are unfit for human occupancy. I don't need to find more mold. I'm kicking a dead horse if I'm looking for more mold. I've already found enough. So, but I had a choice when I got into this industry. Do what everyone else does, knock out three, four assessments a day and be accountable for nothing. If I just walk into someone's home, do the gold standard. Well, then I'm not gonna find mold. I just charge that client maybe for 10 air samples. That's an extra grand. And I'm in and out in an hour, hour and a half. I'm gonna knock out a few more in that same day, and I don't have to write a protocol. I don't have to talk to them about how dangerous their house is, answer the questions about their items and their contents, um, or even have to be a mediator or almost a counselor in between the husband and the wife who are just at each other. I'm not gonna say the liability, but the responsibility of someone, an inspector who does their job correctly, it's a lot on your shoulders. And not many people can do that.

SPEAKER_02

So essentially the systems incentivize to basically find nothing and tell them everything's fine and to move on and to stop looking at their home as a problem. And I also noticed something like I've been doing this since about 2012, and in talking to a lot of inspectors and some of the classes I have to take for continuing education, things of that nature, and just generally like having to work with people being in an industry. You know, I find that a lot of inspectors they don't actually think mold makes people sick.

SPEAKER_01

I I found the same to be true. Yeah, it blows my mind.

SPEAKER_02

Which is kind of bewildering to me because I'm for me, I feel like I feel so strongly that you know I'm here serving a mission and I have a purpose in life.

SPEAKER_01

And you are.

SPEAKER_02

And to think that I have a business that doesn't help somebody because think about it, if I'm an inspector who doesn't believe that mold makes people sick, then why am I inspecting for mold?

SPEAKER_01

Uh what shocks me even more is how does that person even get business? Oh, wait, I can also answer that. Property management companies, landlords, builders, good God, the builders, especially in Texas. But there is a market for those people. And you know, as part of my licensure out of Texas specifically, they discuss in great detail how we're not supposed to fear monger. But does that also mean we can't tell the truth? So should I just do the opposite? So there's no liability. And now I'm gonna be telling my clients, yeah, mold can't hurt you. I'm sorry, if they paid attention in class and let's say their instructor was worth a damn, then they would know that mold can hurt you. In fact, they're quick, simple search online, Google or AI, it's well known that mold can hurt individuals, whether they're part of that 25th percentile or not.

SPEAKER_02

When it comes to that word fear monger, you know, obviously it's a word that gets thrown around quite a bit, you know, and it's uh it seems like it's tactfully thrown around. What are your thoughts? Like what is what is fear mongering to you?

SPEAKER_01

To summarize it, an alarmist?

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I find I find, let's say, a very small amount of mold, let's say the size of a quarter. Oh, your home's unfit for occupancy. Oh my gosh. We need you need to hire this mold remediation contractor who's my buddy. Um, and you need to do all this work. And if you don't, it's just gonna continue to grow, it'll grow through the wall, and your your wall will start to expand and it ruins your whole house. I mean, okay, that's an alarmist. It's fear mongering. Those people wouldn't last a day, I think, in this industry. But still, it's the opposite of that. The ones that don't think mold can hurt you, I think that is worse than someone who is a fear mongerer. Because those are the most expensive inspectors. And they always have the lowest starting out price to where, yeah, you'll hire them, 500 bucks a pop, let's say, something low. They're gonna go in and take 10 air samples. Now they're making, when you include the $500, now they're at like $1,500 plus. But those are the most expensive. Even if you paid $400 after samples for that specific inspector, they are still the most expensive because why? You do not have actionable data, you do not have accurate data. You've wasted your money and you're still gonna go back and forth to the doctor continuously. And God forbid, let's say this family that hired this piece of trash inspector, God forbid, now that they have these air samples which are pure, oh, this is cleaner than a hospital, this is cleaner than a clean room, best house I've ever seen. God forbid that family now stops thinking about mold. Now they're gonna go down the next rabbit hole of bed bugs, coronavirus, anthrax, who knows, but they're gonna stop thinking about mold when it could be mold causing the problem because we have piece of trash inspectors out there. They do the worst, they cause the most harm. And that's exactly what we're dealing with on this Air Force base over here.

SPEAKER_02

Totally. You know, it you it is interesting. You talked about like somebody finding a little bit of mold and being like, you know, tear your whole house apart. I've never really heard of that scenario. Like, I really haven't. I mean, I'm sure it, I'm sure it exists. I just I just really have never heard of that scenario personally. Like, I've never known someone that's been impacted by something like that. But what I do know is the other scenario that you mentioned where somebody comes in, does a bunch of air samples, tells the person your house is fine, it's beautiful. Heck, I've even had people spend a thousand bucks. There's no samples. The guy just walks in, walks around, does a visual inspection, and says, Yeah, this is a clean house. You don't have to worry about mold, ma'am. You know, I mean, you and I both know mold can be behind the wall, it can be in the HVAC system. I mean, to just look around the room.

SPEAKER_01

Those are the legacy inspectors. Oh, yeah. The dangerous source. Yeah. They've got the swagger, the confidence. They've got the old school briefcase, so they know what they're talking about. Um, I'm gonna get them out of this industry if it's the last thing I do. Headhunter, I'm gonna search those guys out. But go ahead, meaning I interrupted. Um those are just as bad, though.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Those inspectors.

SPEAKER_02

But I and I see them all the time. You know, it happens all the time. I mean, I'm sure it happens to you all the time, right? I mean, how many clients go down a different rabbit hole and they circle back to mold after, I don't know, maybe wasting another year or two, and then they find you and they call you, and then you come in and you find all these problems. How often does that happen?

SPEAKER_01

Um Extremely often. Yeah. Extremely often. I've been in, so there's just one. So I'm starting to train other inspectors. And so they'll ride with me to these projects. We do on-site training. And by the way, that's after they've been trained by the state. Now they actually have to go through training. Yeah. How do we deal with the our clients? Um, it can be an emotional process, sure, but it's real world. And so behind the passenger seat of my truck, because I always talk about air samples with them. It's a hot topic.

SPEAKER_03

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

Because they come out of training thinking gold standard.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So I pull out some lab results from a project that I went on to, and I was I was the fourth inspector. The fourth inspector. The fourth. Um, the only reason the client called my company, who was extremely reluctant to do so, thought it was going to be a waste of money, is because our doctor insisted, like just insisted, if you don't, I will not treat you anymore. And so I pull out the air quality results from the third inspector, the one right before me. And I think it was, it could be anywhere from 12 to 14 samples. Doesn't really matter. A lot of air samples. They're all showing, okay, like pen, penicillin masspergillus, anywhere from 300 or lower. But I would say that it did show up at most of the air samples. And so that inspector told that old lady, literally on her deathbed, he didn't see a problem. There's no reason for remediation. So when I walked in, and she's literally trying to convince me she doesn't have a problem now. She's already had three inspectors, but her doctor made her do this. I kind of started just like tuning her out. I couldn't even hear her, even though she was right in front of me talking to me because my eyes were wandering. I was looking at all these different air vents within proximity to where we're standing, full of mold, covering the ceiling, covering the vents. Something had to be wrong with her for her not to see that, or to trust all these other inspectors. It was lit. I have the photographs on the assessment. It was in every single vent, it was throughout each of the HVACs. So much water damage in this home, it was insane. But these inspectors, they didn't care. They walked in, probably had their head down looking at their phone while they're conducting the air sample. That's sickening to me. I'm glad she hired us. Um she spent a lot of money on her home. She would have spent it before us, but she would have known before I had to come out, right?

SPEAKER_02

That happens all the time. It's really crazy. I'm gonna show you something on my phone because it's uh fitting. I just found this like ad on Facebook. I won't like mention the company's name. It's just some random local company here to where we are. Do you see how they're like HEPA vacuuming black mold off a ceiling? Yes. Instead of cutting out the ceiling? Sure. That's their ad that they serve me on Facebook. So if you think about it, if they're advert if they believe that that's a correct display of an advertisement, yeah, we'll just vacuum it off the ceiling. What do you think they're gonna do? They're gonna, that's how they probably go do their business.

SPEAKER_01

Well, something's wrong with this industry as a whole, then. If an ad like that is okay, uh and the circles I run with in Texas, we see an ad like that, that person would get destroyed online. I know. Destroyed. But if it's outside the circle, let's say that I have tight circle, I would say, they're in another city, another state. That's common, right? Yeah, that's misleading. Um in Texas, that goes against the rules and regulations. But it happens every day. Um I I love this. I love this. I'm not even talking about the legacy inspectors, you know, swagger. They don't need to sample. By the way, I don't need to sample. I don't have an old school briefcase. I don't have to sample because I find the mold.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Find it. I'm there all day until I find it. Um, but I digress.

SPEAKER_02

I've seen you drill holes in walls and in HVAC systems and stick a camera in there, right? So if you see fungus growing all over a wall cavity, I mean you could certainly make the argument that I don't need to sample that. I just it needs to be removed, right?

SPEAKER_01

That's what my clients ask me. Like, actually, uh I kind of head that off typically before they ask me. After my assessment, I show them where all the mold is. And I tell them why the mold grows. That's very, very important. That's that's something most companies don't do. Even some of these national inspection companies that claim to be the best. I've read many of the best companies' reports. They don't point out the source of water. So all they do is go in and sample, sample, sample. A mold assessor in Florida, a mold assessment consultant in Texas. And I would also make the point that any environmental professional that's competent or worth a damn should be able to identify mold visually. Um, so no, we don't have to sample it. And should we sample it then? You can answer this. Do we have to know what kind of mold it is in order to, let's say, put forth the proper remedial procedures, does it matter?

SPEAKER_02

Well, it doesn't matter what type of mold it is to remove it, right? It has no bearing on that. Right. You know, if you wanted to know what type of mold it was because you were concerned about the specific toxin it created, and maybe you had like some toxin testing, I can see that argument, you know, from more of like a general educational standpoint. Or a doctor might want to know. Sure, doctor, but but yeah, I mean, to remove it, no, it makes no difference in the protocol that you would write or the protocol remediator would follow.

SPEAKER_01

You know what's interesting sometimes I get a little too um passionate about what I do, or in other words, upset. Meaning these mold remediation contractors will insist on seeing lab results, even though they have their protocol. I don't always put the lab results in my protocols. Sure. I'm thinking to myself, well, why the hell do you care? Just do the work. Um and then they'll go as far as take samples themselves. That's questionable. Some mold contractors will. Um it's even though there are rules and regulations, I swear it's still the Wild West. Why would they take samples themselves? Let's say right before clearance, and I see no problem with it. Oh, like they're trying to clear before the clearance? Right. Yeah. Right. It just increases their chances. Sure. Or lets them know, hey, we're not going to call this inspector out and miss or inaccurately set expectations with our clients. Let's run our own tests. We're not going to share them with the client. They're for our own benefit. That makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

It does. That's a good thing to do from a business standpoint. Sure. So good for them. And there are some good mobile contractors out there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Why not just use a TAP or ATP to just see the load count?

SPEAKER_01

I would love that because damn, they're really cleaning if they can pass that that exact test. Because that's showing dead and alive. Just bodies, bodies, bodies.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Nothing wrong with that at all. Well, because then you get the answer right then and there. Instead of like taking a sample, then waiting three days for the lab results and then and then you pass and you wait another three days to get the inspector out to get those lab results. It just seems like uh counterproductive.

SPEAKER_01

It's not going to help them get to the next job. But at least they're trying to do the right thing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But you're right about the ATP sensor. Um, but again, most contractors don't do that. I love going into clearance. You know, the protocol says everything must be dust-free. Containment must still be erected. Negative air pressure must be sustained. I mean, very specific requirements and clearance, important reminders, all these different things. And I go in just like a child did the work. I run into that all the time. There was dust everywhere. Oh God, yes. And mold. And mold. Um, or they'll uh take it upon themselves to paint everything white. Even though the protocol sh strictly states no encapsulate can be applied, even if it's a clear one. I've I make mold contractors send every square inch of that white encapsulate off. Um it comes down to communication. A lot of a lot of these mold contractors, they're used to doing what they want. Yeah. Because they work with their preferred inspector who passes them in a buddy-buddy system. And really, if if these mold contractors would just reach out and let's discuss the protocol, and I'm open to change. I'm not saying I'm right about everything, but I do know once I write the protocol, I am bound to what's in that protocol. Right. So you can't just go do what you want. It's that simple. Um, so if we communicate and we all agree on an encapsule it, fine. After the fact, still not before. Really, I say mold remediation is simple. So long as you have integrity, you have a good crew, you've trained them well, you have experience. Um cleanse, y'all are knocking a project out of the park for me and uh um the hill country in Texas, just outside of Austin. Killing it. Uh I'm probably not gonna be able to do the post-remediation assessment on that one, because I'm here and I think they're trying to do it now.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I don't really care. Um, they've been communicating with me throughout the project. Too many photographs, if you ask me. I can't look at them all, but that's fine. They're thorough. Um, there's a big difference between a competent mold remediation company and then all of these other mold remediation companies that literally get into the industry and they're drinking out of a fire hose, making more money than they know what to do with, their days are numbered. Totally. They're gonna get sued very quickly when they screw the wrong person. And I hope I'm on the correct side of things to assist them. Well, I think you will be.

SPEAKER_02

I think you've been on the correct side of a lot of things. You know, it's interesting what you said in regards to like the scope of work and PRV and all that stuff. And I think you're right, like it comes down to communication. Like, what is needed and wanted? What's the passing criteria? Like, what like having that ironed out up front is really helpful. I'll give you an example of a project that we passed recently. The demands were crazy. I almost like didn't want to take the job. It's very rare that I don't want to take a job. I almost didn't want to take the job. And then I was just like, of course I'm taking this job. This would be like, if I could pass this thing first shot, flying colors, then I'm really worth my weight in gold, right? This job, I'll tell you the passing criteria. It had we had to write into the contract and everything. We had to sand every piece of lumber down. We had to um do two rounds of PRV. So the first round of a PRV was a dog came in. This house was gutted. So give me let me give you that clarification. The dog came in, okay, and basically sat if there was any mold remaining, right? Right. So we had to pass the dog. Damn. And then an inspector came in the next day, I guess after, and then sampled any spots as well. And we had to get, I mean, not you know, you don't get zero spores on the swab, right? But you had to pass by their passing standards. And that was the job. And it was like 5,000 square feet with a crawl space and everything. No encapsulates. Um, they wanted encapsulates, encapsulates were applied after the PRV, after those two rounds of PRV. Makes sense, yeah. So we did that. We did exactly what they wanted. We ended up passing. It probably took us about a four-week job, maybe five weeks, something around there. First go round. First go around. After three failed remediations. Three failed remediations. We were the fourth company after three failed remediations. And the guy just wanted like very, it was like very simple. And I was just like, okay. I almost didn't want to do it because I'm like a dog. I don't know the, I didn't know the inspector. Right. So I was like, well, if I'm gonna do this, I want to sit down with the inspector on Zoom and like understand what the passing criteria is. Right. And I want to like, I want that written to the contract. Oh, you wanted to communicate. I want to communicate. Right. Because I'm like, I don't, I don't like, if you want to tell me to do a handstand and jump around on my hands and while I'm passing, like I need to know that ahead of time. Right. I think that's kind of a noble thing. Like, what does passing look like? Because you're it's a relationship, right? You're you're trying to basically, it's it was me, the inspector, and the client. And we came up together of like, what what are the expectations? You've had three failed remediations already. Right. I don't want to be a fourth one. Right. Right? Like, so what are the expectations? The expectations were a bit unusual, right? In terms of any sort of industry standards. Right. But it was like, okay, well, if this is what the expectations are, I feel pretty confident because guess what? If the dog sits there, then good, we'll do more cleaning. Like, you know, we'll do more cleaning, we'll get the dog back in there later that afternoon. You know, if we're all willing, if we're all like trying to do this and get to the criteria that we all agree to as quickly as possible, and we're trying to be efficient and we're trying to be reasonable, great. Let's do that.

SPEAKER_01

That's a challenge, though. These some of these dogs are amazing. Some. The term is washed. Some of these dogs, they can't smell mold. I've been behind them. Anyway, maybe we talk about that a different day, but that's a challenge. Um, I kind of like that style.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, pretty much like I'm at the point where it's like, I'm I like the challenge. I'm I'm down for challenge, you know. Um, you mentioned documentation, right? Like, it's probably too many pictures, but how important is documentation? I mean, you never know when it's gonna be a legal case, right? Especially in my position. Like sometimes I get brought on as an expert witness to legal cases, right? And sometimes I'm working for clients and I'm correcting their house and they're trying to move back into their house and their house made them sick.

SPEAKER_01

Might as well be a legal case, just as important.

SPEAKER_02

But it could be a legal case, right? Right. Like they might, I don't depending on what you find in the course of remediation, what the cause was and all these things, like sometimes we're finding this house wasn't built properly. That's why there's so much mold in here. Okay, now it becomes a legal case, right? So that documentation is really important.

SPEAKER_01

And you've just removed all the evidence, so you have to memorialize it somehow. And in Texas, it is a requirement, um, at least during a PRB, for photographs to be taken and retained for a minimum of five years. Yeah. We have to keep them a certain amount of time. But um, yeah, that is that's what's amazing about home cleanse. And I I've had have very little experience with y'all.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um because you're kind of spread thin across the nation, but very impressed with the documentation because that that is crucial for me. I mean, that's that's why I do litigation. And I I'm obsessive over taking photographs. Um, so it resonated with me working that project with y'all. Um, y'all did amazing work. Thank you. And you're right, it with that house, construction defects. Oh my gosh. It's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's like literally insane. I mean, I, you know, I sent you a picture and I was like, hey, these guys had a uh radiant barrier system and then just spray foamed spray foamed over it. That's doing a whole lot of good, you know. Just like, why even bother? You know, like why even bother doing that?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean, we got to think about it this way. Okay, it doesn't matter who the builder is. You can pick any of the best builders with the best reputations, largest in the nation. And let's say you're gonna spend $500,000 for them. You chose them because of the marketing. You like the layout of the house, it's affordable, they've got great marketing.

SPEAKER_02

Looks pretty.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah. The colors that they use in the marketing is amazing, and their salespeople were very helpful. Very helpful. They spoke well, dressed nice. So you hand them the $500,000. They don't build your house. The people that are building your house, if you knew their level of skill or their their ability to learn their skill, you wouldn't give them a dollar to build your house. But that's what happens every single day. Every day.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Tens of thousands of houses across America. I built a business off of it. I bet. Recently, um, I got served last night, but recently we got served at 10 p.m. at night. Woke up my kids. I was upset about that one. Wow. But um one of the largest builders in the nation turned me into the state of Texas. I'm okay with talking about it. I don't care. I think it's a joke. Because one of my clients, he did a video. Um he posted online. I liked it. My wife liked it. My wife just shared it. My wife didn't comment, just shared it. And so they reported us to the state of Texas saying that we're defaming their company and causing them financial harm. And I'm thinking to myself, I didn't build your house, you did. You're causing yourself the harm. And you're coming at me like that. That's retaliatory. So I'm expecting for them to file a suit against me. We'll see. I'll bring an army against them. I will.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think it's kind of strange that you they would bring a suit against you for well, I mean, did you inspect the house? Did you find problems with it? Okay. Oh, yeah. So you wrote a report. Yeah, quite a few of their homes. Okay. Told the truth. So you told the truth, you wrote a report, you stand behind your report, you're an expert in the field. They should be thanking me.

SPEAKER_01

Oh God, we didn't know. Our inspector didn't find anything. Choosing different words. I wanted to say other ones. So thank you, Josh. Why don't they just do that? Right? Now they get to fix the problem and actually build the healthy home that their customer, my client, originally wanted.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, that would be a mission at guild, probably, I guess, Josh. I think so. I think so. Where do we go from here societally? How do we fix this?

SPEAKER_01

My wife and I, when we got into the industry, we said, okay, we're not scared of litigation, as long as we're telling the truth, right? It's quite simple. So the more of these lawsuits that we're a part of, and we do our best to methodically prove what needs to be proven, collect the evidence perfectly, then it's gonna change the way they build homes with all these builders, let's say. Or these property management companies are gonna start doing right by their clients, fixing issues properly. So we thought the more cases we're involved in that are victorious, they've got to change. I've been in hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases now. It's not changing. These these bad players are just uh changing their approach now. Now they're attacking me and my company. They're kind of going up on the anties here. But so my wife and I decided we're gonna try to get into the legislation side of things. And um you have been with uh your company very instrumental in that, and we're actually working on the side with your nonprofit, and we're gonna be trying to tackle the legislation side of things in Texas at a minimum starting there. Right because the question you asked, where are we going? I don't have the answer, so we have to try it a different way because it's working, it's not working, whatever we're doing. Correct. I mean, it still helps my clients, sure. Right but but the bad players, the builders and the property management companies, they're not learning their lesson. And we have to follow the judicial process. We can't take matters into our own hands. Um so I'll stop there without saying too much about that. But yeah, so we're gonna try the legislation side of things. Um we'll see if that falls on deaf ears because the building, the builders lobby, it's huge, huge. And then with some of these privatized contractors, let's say with the military, there's quite a few of them, they have a lot of power. They have 50-year contracts. They should still they should not be allowed to continue wrecking families, wrecking the homes to where they're irreparable. Um, and I'm talking about the families and the homes when I say irreparable. Sure. They're in breach of their own contract with the government. Why are they still allowed to even function? It blows my mind. Again, I've only been doing this for a year. You've been on some of these bases that I'm on for over a year. Yeah. Since what, 2019?

SPEAKER_02

I think I went to McDill Air Force Base first in 2019. And uh it might surprise you or might not surprise you, I should say, that the exact same problems that I saw in 2019 are still in existence today, meaning they did not take any of that information and use that information to do something about it.

SPEAKER_01

To change. That means that's they're knowingly choosing to do wrong.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm sure there's legal terminology I could use, but I'm not a lawyer. But that's a a conscious decision that they're making to turn a blind eye because the construction defects that you pointed out in 2019, every home that I was in today, same exact issue. I'm pulling up these vinyl planks, the LVP flooring, just an ocean of mold beneath that. Yeah. And and the last house I was in, I think I had no second to last house. I think they had five children or six children. One low functioning, autistic. Um, walking on an ocean of mold, unbeknownst to them. On the HVACs. Oh good God. I I don't understand why don't fix it. Most of the HVAC configurations in these homes and in Key West, they can be corrected with approximately, I'm gonna I'm gonna go high here, fifty dollars worth of materials. And they can correct the issue, but they won't. Is it an omission of guilt? Why aren't is it is fifty doll too much? That I don't know. Can't speak for them. Can't speak for the devil, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, fifty bucks across 500 units, sure, I get it adds uh maybe to 25 grand.

SPEAKER_01

They need to get another grant maybe to take care of that.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe. Yeah, I mean, there's some serious issues. Um and so what's your solution? How do we fix it? I'll tell you a couple different things. I think we definitely need better legislation.

SPEAKER_01

Wait, do we need to fix politics?

SPEAKER_02

Because I could go down that road. Oh boy. Uh yeah, I think we're not supposed to talk about religion or politics, right? Yeah. Okay, understood. Sorry. You know, it's it's a bipartisan issue. Like we all live indoors, you know, like no matter what you believe, no matter who you choose to support, you know, like I believe that all human beings are innately good. I think, you know, we get I think we can get confused by misinformation, you know, and I think ultimately people choose a side, I guess, you know, politically. But I think both sides, honestly, like they have different, obviously very different ways about going about things. I've had to become very like, you know, nonpartisan just to think about like being solution-oriented, you know? Yeah. And so I feel like I've when I take myself out of that and don't think about like maybe what I might have came up with as an upbringing or, you know, sort of any sort of religious ideas or philosophies I might have. At the end of the day, I think that we're all kind of in the same position. Like we all live indoors. We all need to be concerned about the the quality of air we breathe. Sure. And so when you think about it from that perspective, there's really no politics in it at all. You know, and it's I get it, it's a complex issue. Believe me, I do. I understand we're talking about confronting a the elephant in the room here. The elephant in the room here is 50% of homes and water damage. That's that's just one statistic from 1994.

SPEAKER_01

I think the guy that that put that study together had an eyepash on.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

He was only looking at half the homes. But then, okay, I can't speak for all homes. I mean, people don't call me unless they have a problem, but I would be surprised if that statistic was not diluted.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, I I agree. I think it's more than that. But even if you just took that number conservatively, right? That's 50% of homes. Good. There's a lot of homes. Good. Who's paying for all these homes? You know, it really comes down to that perspective. And I get that. That's a that's a challenge. However, there's also this other perspective of like, well, what is the economic harm of putting our head in the sand? And then if you start to look at those figures, those figures are tremendous.

SPEAKER_01

Can you elaborate on that? What do you mean by putting your head in the sand?

SPEAKER_02

Well, let's think about when you put your head in the sand, meaning this is what we're doing. Like from a societal standpoint, we have our head in the sand. About mold? About mold. Yeah, of course. Because we're like, okay, we can take that statistic, 50% of homes, we can take another statistic, EPA 90% of the time endorse, right?

SPEAKER_01

Well, are we socially conditioned, though, maybe, to think that mold can't hurt us? I mean, we don't even think whether it can or can't. We've been socially conditioned to not even it's not even on our radar. That's right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I won I won't argue that.

SPEAKER_01

Because when I think of head and sand, I'm thinking of a coward, right? Um That's that's my thought. But people just don't know. And I think it's that's the ignorance, I think that's what's crippling to us until they get burned by it. They're kind of forced, you know, trial by fire. That's what happened to me and my wife. But sorry. Um continue, please.

SPEAKER_02

Well, no, the point that I'm trying to make is that I think we we all get sick then from being in these environments and not understanding why we're sick. And we go down this rabbit hole and we go to doctors, and doctors say, you've got blah, pick a chronic condition, right? Sure. And here's a pill, and you need to take this pill for the rest of your life. And you think about what's the economic harm to that. I mean, asthma alone is billions upon billions of dollars. And we know 22% of asthma cases are caused by mold.

SPEAKER_01

I think the pharmaceutical industry would crash. Probably. I think so, because really you can't take a pill to get better from mold, or there are very few available. So if we're talking about natural remedies, or hey, here's a novel idea. How about clean air in a home blows your mind? You won't even need a doctor. I haven't been to the doctor in eight years for sickness. So the economic harm would be massive. Industries would crumble. They would, like the pharmaceutical industry.

SPEAKER_02

Sure. I mean, but that happens, you know, like as As technology advances, industries go away, new industries get formed, right? Like that's it, is what it is, you know. The way I see it though is like if we're not gonna do something about this environmental issue that we clearly have, I mean, and it's it's not just in parts or regions of the US, like it's everywhere. It's the entire US, yes. If we don't fix the problem, which I understand is gonna be an investment, the other side of the economic burden that continues to climb, it's it's going at a rate that's just insurmountable.

SPEAKER_01

Pick your poison, go to the doctor rest of your life, eat pills the rest of your life. Or go against the grain almost. Understand this epidemic of mold and quit brushing it to the side. It's not taboo, it's very real. We still gotta get the bad players, bad inspectors out of the industry, uh, because they're really they're poisoning the well too, right?

SPEAKER_03

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

Um, just as quickly as like the media can. Um it might not be on our watch, you know. I think this takes generations. Um but what else are we gonna do with our dime? You know, might as well do the right thing with our time. Makes it fun.

SPEAKER_02

I would consider you a disruptor. Would you would you accept that title gracefully?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I'm honored to wear that badge.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm just getting started. Just getting started. That's awesome. But I would say you are too. Um, you know, when God dang, I mean, all these experts out there, there's so many experts out there where a week after getting into this industry as an inspector, they're an expert. Or they're just self-proclaimed experts. And so people think of them like that because they have a license or a title. And so now they're poisoning people, you know, because they're putting themselves out in the market as having a position of authority, let's say. But they fold, they crumble in depositions, yeah. Like little children, or they get backed into a million different corners and they actually hurt the case instead of telling the truth. It's because you weren't listening to the question. Just like with you, operating as an expert, it takes a special individual to do that and not wreck a case, meaning stand up to these fork-tongued defense counsel um and hold your ground and and just represent the truth. It's that simple. But um, so many people don't have the guts. That's where I say they put their heads in the sand. It takes a special individual to beg, to want to be deposed. Yeah, to be an expert. Yeah. You gotta wake up and want to piss excellence. I mean, being deposed isn't my favorite thing. I don't study for it. All these attorneys think I study for it. I don't look at anything. It's fun. I I actually sometimes it's very it's it's a big letdown. I expect God Himself to be asking me questions. Like anytime I'm performing an assessment, I'm thinking about deposition or testimony. Is everything I'm doing correct? I'm a bit obsessive, though, maybe. Um, and so when I say I'm expecting God to be the one deposing me, I expect someone better than these attorneys that I'm getting. They don't know anything about construction. They can't pronounce stachybatris. It's like as soon as they do that, I'm trying not to laugh. Like, I'm gonna school you.

SPEAKER_02

I almost wonder sometimes if they like do that on purpose so that you so that you think that they're not as intelligent. So like play like a like a mind game or something.

SPEAKER_01

That would be amazing. I would be pleasantly surprised if all of a sudden they came back just spitting all these facts, keeping me on my toes. But no, I've I've not been there's been a couple that I have been, you know, I would say, uh educated. The other ones they just yell. I've been yelled at everything by these attorneys.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I usually get yelled at as well in there because they don't like hearing what I have to say, typically. So they start raising their voice. Yeah. And then I guess it's an intimidation tactic or whatever, as if my answer is gonna suddenly magically change or something. But yeah. It's pretty frustrating, I think, for me when I am in a deposition and you can just tell like where they're about to go. And you're just like, oh my God, why are we?

SPEAKER_01

This is a waste of my time. Okay, but tell me this though, with your experience with depositions. Would you say that you're being deposed on the content of the case, meaning remediation, the mold, the construction standards, or do they focus the first three, four hours on your history, your past, your credentials?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's nauseating.

SPEAKER_02

They do waste at least two hours. Where'd you go to school? Where'd you grow up?

SPEAKER_01

Are you sure?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Are you sure? Almost like looking for something wrong to, you know, to be like, aha, we'll discredit him on that or something. Yeah, it is like sort of a waste of time in the very beginning. It's like a rote procedure, you know, just looking for anything to like, you know, be able to throw some sort of dagger at you. But then, yeah, it's like then you know, like you could almost see like a chess match. Like, okay, this they've got an angle here, and they're just going at this specific angle. And they're trying to basically use semantics to kind of pigeonhole you in this position. They're wordsmiths, that's for sure. Yeah. To just say some sort of something that they can use as a narrative in the courtroom. It's really what it comes down to. And it's like, but guys, this is very black and white. There's a problem here. Your clients who you're defending here, he made a mistake. Like, end of story. Let's move on. It's a huge waste of time to have this entire show. Yes. And it's only because usually it's not the defendant who's foot in the bill. It's his insurance company. Correct, yes. And so the insurance company that there's this whole theatrics is for them to be like, we might be able to settle this case for 50K or 75k, or hey, we're gonna have to write a big check.

SPEAKER_01

I want every case I'm in to go to trial. That's what I want. Or arbitration, which I hate arbitration. We can talk about that, but I don't want it to settle. I don't, I prepare for trial every single case. I dare some of them to go to trial. Getting in front of a judge or a jury of your peers, most people nowadays, maybe 10 years ago this wasn't true, but most people have either been through mold themselves or they know someone who's been through mold. So if you have a jury of your peers, the chances are the overwhelming majority of them understand mold to a degree. Yeah. And so this will just be an education. When I'm in front of a jury, they're taking notes. That's what I want to see.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but like giving them a business card right in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_02

I love when the jury asks questions. You know, I guess for those that might not know, the jury gets to ask questions. Yes. And uh that's probably my favorite part because you know, you could tell like they're actually paying attention to the signs. Not sleeping, you know, right? And they're like, okay. So I remember this uh jury uh juror asked me a question about like the path that water could have traveled. And I was like, Yeah, that's a great question. And they were just like, is it possible that the water didn't travel the way I had written it in my report? I was like, anything's possible, pal. But if you look at the striation on the floor, it's pretty clear where the water came from. So I stand behind what I wrote in my report, right? Based upon that and that alone. Yeah, you have to pay attention to where the water then pools.

SPEAKER_01

You're engaging with them. Yeah. You're not trying to sound smarter than them. I love some of these experts that it's like they they purposefully use the largest words they can think of. Oh, it drives me nuts. Yeah, yeah. That's how you lose the jury. I mean, I'm a regular person just like you. Um, but that's why I want to get in front of a jury. Uh it's it's easier to connect to them than it is an arbitrator who's on the AAA board or whatever of arbitrators in Texas. It's a very builder-friendly state, Texas is. So that's an uphill battle. Sure. Arbitration should be um, shouldn't be allowed. Goes against our constitution. That's the route we need to go with trying to change this legislation. How in the hell did that ever even get approved for arbitration to be um upheld? Like that just blows my mind. It's so corrupt.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So then we gotta count on this arbitrator not being friends with the defense counsel, literally. And a lot of these arbitrators are still practicing lawyers. Right. God forbid this arbitrator has ever hired this defense mold expert. This has happened on a case I was on. I mean, yeah. And so now do we expect this arbitrator to rule against an expert that they have hired in their own case? That's probably still ongoing. I mean, corruption runs deep, but that should not be allowed. Arbitration. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Even mediation's like painful. I mean, you got a guy who goes back and forth and tells both sides how terrible their case is, so that's I tried to walk out of the line.

SPEAKER_01

So I was actually part of mediation once. This one attorney actually was suing me, the expert, right, for this case.

SPEAKER_02

The expert was suing you?

SPEAKER_01

The builder was suing me. The builder was suing you. Suing me because you wrote a report. That was so different from his mold expert. Now, if you knew the mold expert, which you probably do, I won't say it. She's about as corrupt as they come. Um I've been in over 35 cases against her. But um, long story short, is so this builder decided to sue me. This is out of Lubbock. And like an intimidation tactic? I mean, like on what grounds? Because I had insurance.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Malpractice or omission? He wanted my insurance company to say, you know what, we just need to make this go away for this amount of money. So they were using me, basically. And I had to go to mediation or uh yeah, mediation. I lost my mind. They wanted me to sit there for 12 hours after driving to Lubbock. I was about to walk out. Another attorney had to call me down. Cause I I was ready to go to war with them. I don't care. It's just corrupt.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. They did the whole thing where they went back and forth and told you how to Not me.

SPEAKER_01

They were doing it amongst themselves. They just left me in my own little room. Oh. So all I had time to do was really obsess over everything. And that's when I started saying, I don't want to be here no more. And started walking out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

12 hours. Wow. That would have been a long drive home. But that's that's what we deal with. So you have a few good players, inspectors in the industry. Um, you actually have some inspectors that mean well.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

They have good intentions. Yes, of course. Um, maybe they need more experience or they need to learn from an inspector who does have the experience and be open-minded to learning better ways, better methodologies. Like, how do I perform a better assessment? How do I find the mold? How do you find the mold? Because I can tell you one way not to find mold is just to walk in there and take air samples to see if mold shows up. And don't look. But it's the gold standard. Um so you have good inspectors, very few and far between. You have ones that mean well, they just need a little helping hand along the way. But then we have then you have the corruption in the industry. So it's a big uphill battle.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. It is. And if you're a consumer and you think your house is part of the problem, it becomes very difficult to know who to trust and who to find. And but obviously, you want someone that actually cares and wants to help you find whatever problems might exist. What about those guys? Have you seen these reports come out where they're like, oh, it's fine. The mold's behind the wall, it can't hurt them.

SPEAKER_01

I get that in every deposition. They don't live behind the wall, Josh. Like, are you kidding me? Okay, we can agree. They don't live behind the wall. Yeah. But then I show them, as I'm still smiling, then I say, but yeah, wait, the wall is communicating with the occupiable areas of the home. I have proven that. I have over 12 video clips proving this. Have you taken the time to look at the video clips? I ask them. Sometimes I find myself asking the question. Yeah? They don't like that. It's like, really? You didn't look at any of this? You don't know how much mold we're dealing with, and you still came, you still wanted to waste someone's money by having me come here and get deposed by you. And so they still don't understand. Like, I've already put that talking point or that line of questioning to rest with my evidence because I've been through it, and I've heard this in so many cases that, hey, the moles behind the wall, it's a sealed wall. They don't live there. Since I've experienced that so many times, now my assessments prove what I know they're going to ask me. They prove that the air inside the wall is communicating with the occupiable areas of the home. And so if they did any legwork, they would just shut up and realize they're beat with evidence.

SPEAKER_02

So crazy. You know, I watched um, I remember at one of the houses on the base, you drilled a hole through the floor. And when you did that, we actually saw you used your smoke gun. It blew my hair back. Blew my hair back. Believe it or not, my beard. You used the smoke gun to show how the mold in the floor cavity, because they didn't have a vapor barrier, right, was actually blowing and pulling into the HVAC system and being distributed. You showed that using the smoke gun.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. Shut everyone down if they care to take a look at it. But we're showing, because we we understand this, Michael. Mold doesn't have wings. It needs something to transport it, right? The primary mode of transportation is airflow. So to understand, let's say, a risk assessment of exposure, we have to understand airflow. And I also get it a lot from husbands that don't believe the wives, and every now and then vice versa. So I need for the husband to believe the wife is not crazy, right? Or the wife needs to believe the husband's not crazy. So I have to show what's happening because and we have to use smoke. We can't see airflow, it's invisible. We can't see multiple words, they're invisible. But if we show them the source and we show them airflow with smoke, now everything's okay. My wife or my husband's not crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Someone's sorry, and they're gonna start focusing on solutions.

SPEAKER_02

Told you I'm not crazy.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's uh it it is like it is pretty damning to see that visually, you know, because a lot of people say the mold behind the wall can't hurt you. Right, right. The mold on the floor can't hurt you. Right. You know, it's all fine. Blows my mind.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, here's a good story because just as you saw that demonstration, I could also, let's say, sit down with a seven, eight, nine, ten-year-old, show them that airflow visualization, and I would ask them, okay, what are we seeing here? What's happening here, Johnny? And they might not really understand the question. What am I? So I might push them along a little bit more, ask him a question a few more times, but this eight-year-old is gonna end up saying, Well, yeah, air's coming out of the wall. I asked a builder once on site in someone's home. And I said, Look, just come here. Let me show you something. And I showed him this visualization. And I said, What? I wasn't treating him like a child, but I wanted him to answer it. It was more important because he was in front of my client. I said, What does this mean to you? And I popped smoke. Boom, driving straight away from the wall. I don't know. What does it mean? He said. I just look at him like he's an idiot. I said, okay, wait. It's because I don't want my time wasted anymore. I was out of town, needed to drive back home. I said, okay, does this mean that air is coming out of the wall? I'm still popping smoke, mind you. I don't know what that means, Josh. That's the level of craziness I deal with sometimes. You could see the air. I should get an award for dealing with idiots. That's what I should get. Yeah, the the air is just rushing out of this electrical outlet, blowing the smoke directly away from the wall. And he's probably hunted. He's probably used these smoke machines to determine my upwind, downwind, so he could kill a deer, let's say. But when it comes to the house he built, now he's oblivious to just simple logic, you know. But he literally told me that to my face, and I said, That's your stance? You don't know what this means? Yeah, I don't know. I think he knew I was recording because I was. Yeah. You're your body cam on? Not this time, no. I've had SWAT, I've had cops or SWAT actually uh approach the homes I'm in when I would wear a vest and a body cam. So I kind of I should have bought a brown one, but I bought a black one. I thought it'd be cool. Did not work out that well for me. So I've toned that down a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

Toned it down a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

If I'm gonna be recording, I'm just gonna hold it on one of those stacks, you know? Like the little selfie stick there. Yeah, no tactic. That's cool. It's no technical nature to it whatsoever. Yeah. Cops never show up. Interesting. I've had some stories. Yeah. Oh, even on one of the bases over here, well, in Key West, I wasn't wearing a tactical vest, but the MPs, there's like seven cars pulled up on me over in Key West just because I walked out of someone's house with a machine, my biopump. Oh my god. Yeah, what is this guy doing? They hit me hard. I got a bad sunburn. Your sun is intense down here. They had me sitting in the sun for 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It was probably the middle of the summer, too, right? Oh, yes, it was. Yeah. Yeah. I was sweating like someone in church who shouldn't be there.

SPEAKER_02

So I want to try to end off on a good note because yeah, we've we've uh had some pretty deep discussions here today. Well, this is good though, meaning we have to point out the downfalls, right? So we can change them. But I like I want people to understand like the like the why. Like what what what is all this for? And it's the why is you're helping people find problems in their home, help them hold people accountable, right? And then the good news is they eventually move in or don't or leave or whatever it may be, but do they feel better?

SPEAKER_01

So a lot of times I look at it as look, someone's hiring me to get them answers, right? Because no one else could, or maybe they don't trust anyone else to get them answers. But the answer they're seeking is do I or do I not have mold? And now, once I provide that information, sure, I go in depth, we talk about why it's growing, things like that, but now they have the answers to the questions they had, and now they're able to make an educated decision, which most of the time does revolve around health. Maybe it's pre-purchase, they don't buy that house that should be torn down when they hire me. But they hire every other inspector, it's the best house I've ever seen. So they buy that house. Now they're screwed, right? Um but we're giving people solutions. And we're not scared to talk about the health implications of it. I'm not a doctor. It's a joke that I even have to say that, right? Um, I think that's where the change happens, and it's it's one family at a time. And it's still up to them, though. You know, I I would say what we do, we're not heroes, we're just doing what anyone would do uh if they had the skill set, right? Or the knowledge or the know-how to do what we do. I would like to think that everyone is is innately good, but something changes them. And I think it's the money, you know, these bad inspectors. Maybe they started with good intentions and they get blinded by the money.

SPEAKER_02

And laziness. Sometimes, you know, you can make money being lazy.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. It's okay. I'm gonna get them one day. Slowly trying to pick off all these bad inspectors. Um head on her. I'm ahead on her. I'm gonna find these bad, I'm gonna try to get them sued. If I if they can be part of the suit, more the merrier, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then and then they'll think twice. It's about doing a shitty assessment next time, especially if they run into me. They'll learn their lesson. Or they're just gonna be uninsurable and they have to have insurance in Texas and in Florida. Oh, I think we should also bring back license insurance in every state. Makes sense. If we could do it like that, that's what I would recommend. But of course, that's that's a long road, meaning I don't think all this will happen in our generation. I mean, you're much, much older than me. I know that, but I mean, maybe I can come behind you.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you know, one state at a time. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. We gotta think like, well, the I guess Washington, D.C. is not really a state. So we got six states.

SPEAKER_01

It's its own country, if you ask me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. But you know, it's it's it's one thing at a time. You know, and uh I agree. I mean, either certifications, licensures, something, right? Something needs to be done. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

It's an honor to walk alongside you. Even though I don't recommend you, I don't recommend any mold contractor. Um, I don't need to recommend you.

SPEAKER_02

I don't recommend you either.

SPEAKER_01

You're too handsome for that. Thank you, thank you. I need to dye my hair. Um, but no, it's an honor to walk amongst giants like you and your company and your nonprofit who's doing amazing work um that speaks volumes about y'all. And then as long as you have my back when I get attacked, I'll have yours.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I appreciate that. I do have your back, yeah. And I'm working on several cases with you, and uh I was with you alongside you, seeing the issues firsthand.

SPEAKER_01

We have 90 cases in this part of Florida Air Force Base alone.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right now, I think, or 95-ish, something like that, whatever it is.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Stop counting. So I concur. I saw exactly what you saw. You know, um, it's all based on what's actually occurring, you know. And I think the report's gonna reflect what's there. We're we're doing what we're supposed to be doing, you know. We're asked to give our professional opinion on what's happening so that these places could be fixed. You know, and that's what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna start selling heavy equipment, bulldozers, tracos. If we're gonna fix things properly, I'm gonna get out in front of that market. I'm gonna make a lot of sales out here. Level that thing, if you ask me.

SPEAKER_02

Some of them need to be.

SPEAKER_01

I've said it before. I'll say it again. If it's up to me, I'm gonna turn that Air Force base into a ghost town. Or at least the residential side. But I think the families would be much better off base and not being taken advantage of. So I'm gonna do my best to make that happen. And if I get in trouble, I'm gonna say you told me to do it. Sorry.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

We're in it together, right?

SPEAKER_02

We're in it together, man.

SPEAKER_03

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02

Got your back. Yes. Well, Josh, I want to thank you so much for taking the time out of your day. You know, I know you uh just had several back-to-back-to-back inspections. Um, you know, appreciate you being here and uh sharing all your wisdom with us. I think it's really important. You know, one, I think it's important for everybody to kind of know what's at stake here, you know, and two, like if we're gonna really create change, people have to understand what the variables are. Because unfortunately, as you pointed out, there's a lot of different variables between inspectors that are not good. And same thing with remediators, and people need to understand like what change is actually gonna be needed because that's the only way we're gonna get it.

SPEAKER_01

Odds are stacked against us, but it's in God's will for me. I can't stop. Plus, if I tried to stop, my wife would kill me, literally. Um, so it's an honor and a pleasure, and thank you for having me on. And I look forward to the fight tomorrow. Deep done for today.

SPEAKER_02

Good.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. We'll call it a day then. Yes, sir. Thank you again.