NBS #136: The Hidden Causes of Thyroid Disease

Millions of people struggle with thyroid disease, fatigue, autoimmune conditions, and unexplained symptoms without ever addressing what may actually be driving them.

In this episode of Never Been Sicker, Michael Rubino sits down with chiropractor and thyroid expert Dr. Eric Osansky to discuss his own battle with Graves' disease, why conventional treatment often falls short, and how environmental toxins, chronic stress, gut health, and mold can all play a role in thyroid dysfunction.

They also discuss why autoimmune diseases continue to rise, the connection between indoor environments and chronic illness, and what it really means to treat the root cause instead of simply managing symptoms.

Whether you've been diagnosed with Hashimoto's, Graves' disease, another autoimmune condition, or you're simply searching for answers after years of unexplained symptoms, this conversation offers a different perspective on healing.

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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:00 Dr. Eric's Graves' disease journey
03:30 Symptoms that led to his diagnosis
06:00 Why he chose a natural approach
09:15 Why we've never been sicker
10:45 Environmental toxins and thyroid disease
13:45 Mold, autoimmunity, and chronic illness
15:20 The biggest lie in medicine
18:20 Why mold is often overlooked
22:00 Why fixing the environment matters
28:00 Why families experience mold differently
34:00 Hidden toxin exposure at home
39:45 Common thyroid myths
47:30 The SAVE Thyroid Method
49:45 What needs to change in thyroid care
52:40 Where to learn more from Dr. Eric Osansky

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I was having heart palpitations, I was having tremors, I mean increased bowel movements, also increased heart rate palpitations, the cardiac symptoms, the weight loss. My name is Michael Rubino.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

I'm on a personal mission to make sure you don't get sick inside your own home. I knew there was something wrong. I'm just so relieved there's something that you can do about it. Hello and welcome to another episode of Never Been Sicker. I'm your host, indoor air quality expert, Michael Rabino. And today's very special guest, Dr. Eric Osansky. Dr. Eric, thanks so much for taking time out of your busy day to be here with us.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Yeah, thanks, Michael. Excited to be here and excited to have this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Thank you so much. I mean, you know, it's it's really difficult, obviously, when you do God's work like we do, right? To take time out of the day to really be here, but it's really important because then we educate people. And of course, if we're not educating people, then we really create this system where people get sick and stay sick. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

I agree. I mean, it's uh there's a lot of people, unfortunately, sick, and it's just getting worse, and there's a reason for that, and I'm sure we'll discuss some of that here. So I 100% agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

And I think I wanted to start that off specifically because you were once sick. Can can you explain what happened with your own personal health journey?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, so this happened uh a number of years ago to 2007 into 2008. 2007, I was intentionally losing weight, trying to lose weight, diet, and detox. And uh going into 2008, I was successful, and uh I was losing a good amount of weight, and uh and I thought it was all due to what I was doing. I was uh again exercising pretty vigorously, I was uh changing my diet again, taking supplements, and then one day I was walking around in a retail store and took my blood pressure at one of those automated blood pressure machines, and my blood pressure was fine, but my resting heart rate was elevated. And so I thought maybe it was just because I was walking around, and so at the next few days I just manually checked my uh heart rate and my pulse rate, and it was anywhere between 90 and 110 beats per minute. And so I realized something was up. Uh, went to a regular doctor, got some blood test run, and found out that I had hyperthyroidism, and then uh eventually went to an endocrinologist, got diagnosed with Graves' disease, and uh just realized that some of the things I was doing, I mean, it's these autoimmune conditions, Graves is autoimmune, it takes time to develop, but it wasn't helping that I was over-training. I mean, it wasn't that wasn't the first time I was overtraining. I mentioned like late 2007, but for years I would go to the gym and I was overdoing it. So so there were there were I'm sure a lot of different factors, but uh, but yeah, and then I mean, once I was diagnosed, I never had experience with graves, but I did as a chiropractor, we have to attend our seminars to attend to get our continuing education credits. And I always attended nutrition and functional medicine seminars, and a few of them happen to be functional endocrinology seminars. And so I learned that there were natural approaches for hypothourism, Hashimoto's, as well as hyperthourism and graves. So even though I didn't know anybody with graves who restore their health, I figured, hey, I'm gonna be the first one that I know that uh restores my health. And yeah, long story short, I changed my diet and and uh just uh made a lot of diet lifestyle changes, did some functional medicine testing and uh took some time, but was able to heal graves naturally. And ever since then, I've been helping others with um not only graves but Hashimoto's as well. But because of my backstory, I help more people with hyperthaism in graves.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

That's incredible, man. I really appreciate that. Obviously, that you you were dealing with it and struggling with it, and now you've turned that pain into passion, you're helping others. So, you know, that's what life's all about. I really do appreciate that. And thank you for sharing, you know, some of your personal stories here. Uh what what sort of symptoms were you experiencing with graves?

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Yeah, so I as I mentioned, some of the initial symptom, the rest, well, weight loss, which like I said, I attributed it some of that, or really all of that initially to the dieting as well as increased appetite. Uh, but then then I found out about the increased resting heart rate, and then I started being aware more of the symptoms, like I was having heart palpitations, I was having tremors, uh, I mean, increased bowel movements, uh also. I mean, some people have anxiety. I can't say I had anxiety at the time, uh, hair loss, as you could tell. I don't have a lot of hair to begin with and didn't back then. So I so I don't think that was a big factor, at least not one that I paid much attention to. But the increased heart rate palpitations, the cardiac symptoms, the weight loss, uh yeah, those those were my common symptoms.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

And what you know, what's it like being on the other side of the of the table here as a patient versus a doctor? I mean, obviously, does it give you more, you know, compassion for people just because you've been through it yourself?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Yeah, it does. I mean, my background is a chiropractor, and I became a chiropractor because I was experiencing low back pain. And so I was compassionate from that perspective. But from I really didn't have much experience when it came to autoimmune conditions. I mean, I saw people in my practice, chiropractic practice, who had other health conditions and they would bring it up to me. But honestly, at that time, I didn't think I was much help other than just mentioning briefly some diet and to make some diet changes. But yeah, without question, once you experience a certain condition and go through those those same symptoms, you definitely have uh a lot more empathy for people who go through something similar.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Now, one of the interesting things that I I was thinking through as you were kind of speaking about this is obviously, you know, you you got sick. Um, I obviously you were a chiropractor, so you've you've you've sort of had you know your own practice. So you've had some experience being on that other side of the table. But uh one thing I'm curious about is obviously you could have gone in any direction, right? I mean, there are chiropractors, for example, that will recommend you go to a traditional doctor and get painkillers for pain, right? Like you chose a more natural route going into the functional medicine fields. Um, you know, what do you think inspired you to go that route as to more of the traditional conventional route?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, great question. I mean, there's a time and place for conventional treatment in hyperthaurism, especially from a symptom management aspect. Uh, but I after doing research, and again, I didn't know that much about hyperthaurism at the time, but I knew that side effects were common with the medication, so that's why I chose to try to manage it naturally. And as far as addressing the cause of the problem, like trying to address the autoimmune component of graves, I mean, I knew there was an underlying cause behind it. I mean, the three options given to hyperthyroid patients typically are antithyroid medication, radioactive iodine, which destroys the cells of the thyroid, or thyroid surgery. And again, those latter two are pretty extreme. So I knew I wanted to do everything I can to avoid those two. If I absolutely had to take the medication, I wasn't opposed to it, but I figured from what I learned uh by attending those seminars, I would at least try to manage it naturally. And if I had to take the medication, so be it. A lot of my patients do take the meds. I mean, I do also have a lot of people that manage it naturally, kind of a mixture. And as long as they're, I mean, and they're seeing me, obviously it's addressed to cause it a problem. So if someone takes the meds, and if I had to take the meds, I would still try to do things to find and remove the triggers, heal the gut. Uh, and yeah, so so again, uh, that was just my bit. Yeah, I mean, I I guess there's also a certain bias like being a chiropractor and going through school, even though, like you said, I mean, there's some chiropractors might recommend people if people go to medical doctors. And again, I do at times as well. But if there's a way to address it naturally and safely, we want to be safe because sometimes you could do things and get into trouble. Uh, so like I said, there is a time and place for antithar medication, but but many people can manage it naturally while addressing the cost of the problem.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah, that that's well said. I do agree with that. I mean, there's always a time and a place for everything, right? And so I think it's it's important that you're looking at both sides and figuring out, you know, when they do need maybe uh a medical doctor, or maybe they do need some pain management, you know, uh medication, et cetera. Uh so I agree, we don't always want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, right? But I do appreciate how you took a more holistic approach, natural approach to figuring out root cause, which I think um I'm I'm imagining that's part of you know one of the what attracted you towards functional medicine and going to a lot of these conferences to learn more about that. But um, you know, I I think it's it's worth saying, right? Because we obviously see today there's a lot more popularity around, you know, root cause medicine, functional medicine, et cetera. And so it's just worth pointing out that, you know, there's that that direction that people are craving. They want to know how do they get better and not just be on a pill for the rest of their life.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

I want to zoom out for a minute and just think about the bigger picture for a minute. I mean, the podcast is called Never Been Sicker, you know, as as you're as you're aware. And what is it, you know, first off, do you feel that that is true? You know, when you look at the trajectory of chronic illness on the rise and and the you know, the globe, just where we are from a global health perspective. And then, you know, if you do think it's true, why do you think it is? You know, what's causing this this epidemic?

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Yeah, another great question. I mean, so yes, uh I think there's no question that we're uh that as a society where we're sicker, you know, more chronic health conditions, more autoimmune conditions. And I mean, I think the the big, the obvious reason is our toxic environments. I mean, there's also the stressors, and you know, I mentioned the overtraining that was a piece of the puzzle. I'm sure it wasn't the only thing that was a trigger, but you know, you also get a lot of people these days going to the gym and and and working out too hard. And again, stress is a factor. But the the one thing that is getting worse is our exposure to environmental toxins and toxicants, as you're well aware of with the you know, on my podcast talk about mold and mycotoxins, and you know, there's microplastics and glyphosate. I mean, where our our toxic burdens are higher than ever, and uh, you know, we weren't designed to handle such an increased toxic burden.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Totally. And actually, since you mentioned it, will you you let the listeners know uh where your podcast is and where they can find it so they can track down that episode and listen to it? Because I think it was a great episode that we covered.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah, it's uh say Savythyroid.com and I forget the episode number, but if you just go to uh if you visit samythyroid.com and click on podcast, I mean you could also do a search, there's like a search bar, and just um if you if you type in mold, uh they'll find you pretty quickly. If you type in your name, Michael Rubino, they'll find you uh you know pretty quickly. So um, so yeah, definitely check that out. I mean, that's uh just really was another amazing conversation.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah, totally. Now, I I know today we've mentioned the word thyroid quite a bit. Uh I'd like to know how thyroid issues play into the overall conversation when it comes to how how we've never been sicker. And I and I'm curious on your perspective, how many people are walking around with thyroid issues that just haven't been diagnosed in your perspective?

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Oh wow. I mean, there is uh as far as undiagnosed, um, I mean, there's millions of people with uh undiagnosed thyroid conditions, and uh a lot of these people have autoimmune thyroid conditions. I mean, most people with with both hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism, it's autoimmune. Um, but another issue is you know, just getting back to the toxins, a lot of these toxins and toxicins are endocrine disrupting chemicals. So uh so as far as how it plays a role like the thyroid in our environment, I mean, I mean, first of all, thyroid's important because it controls every cell and tissue in the body. So if you have abnormal, abnormal, abnormal, if you have imbalances in the thyroid, whether it's uh low or high, I mean, more a lot more people have hypothyroidism than hyperthyroidism. And uh and again, with these endocrine disrupting chemicals, like especially the microplastics, or uh I mean, many most people people are familiar with bisphenol A, BPA, and then of course people are getting the BPA-free bottles, which they don't realize has BPS and BPF and all these other um structural analogs, but but that's a big issue. So you get exposed to these um toxins and toxicants that disrupt the thyroid directly, and and then so you don't have as much thyroid hormone, and then so that's gonna have a negative effect on the body. And then, like as I mentioned, many of these thyroid conditions are autoimmune in nature. And if you have one autoimmune condition, you're also more likely to develop other autoimmune conditions in the future. So these these are environments not just causing graves and Hashimoto's, but multiple sclerosis and rheumatoid arthritis, celiac disease. Um, so yeah, just um very really scary when you think about the the numbers and um just as we mentioned earlier, that's just just getting worse.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah, no, you're you're you're you're right. And I do see the crossover. I mean, you know, when I was like first starting my career out and I would I would look at different people and the illnesses and they would call, you know, to to want to improve their indoor air quality and reduce their exposure to these toxins and toxicants, you know, we looked at um a lot of different, you know, we saw a lot of different similarities, you know, people with like MCIS, Hashimoto's, hyperthyroid issues, uh, you know, really all, I mean, Lyme disease, we saw that connection with. It was just super interesting. And for me, what I started to realize, I think anyone dealing with an autoimmune condition, obviously your body starts to attack itself in some in some aspects, right? Um, and so what we have to really understand is the more toxins and toxicants that we bring into the environment, while our body's already essentially thinks it's invaded by our own cells, we add other things into the environment. I mean, it makes sense how we're just overloaded uh at that point and just really in this state where we can't heal. And so, yeah, it does it does make a lot of sense to me how there's so much crossover with wanting to really improve the environment and to actually see the benefits that people have by doing so. Uh, I I wanted to ask you from your perspective, you know, it's kind of a fun question, but uh, you know, what do you think is the biggest lie that you've uncovered as you've you've been on this journey, both personally and professionally? You know, in in just medicine overall, what would you say is one of the biggest lies you've encountered?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

I mean, probably the biggest lie is when it comes to all these chronic health conditions, including autoimmune conditions, is that there's no cure for these. Again, with as I mentioned, with graves and hyperthyroidism, they never do anything to address the underlying cause. They only are recommending radioactive iodine thyroid surgery or antithyroid medication. And then with Hashimoto's, pretty much every conventional doctor, including endocrinologists, will just recommend thyroid hormone replacement. And again, there's time and time and place, as we mentioned earlier, a lot, some people do need thyroid hormones, some people do need antithyroid medication, some people do need thyroid surgery. But it's just crazy that they don't do anything for all these autoimmune conditions. And it's not, I mean, my personal experience with graves, obviously it's not an isolated case because I've helped so many others, but even outside of the thyroid world, we have other practitioners help like Dr. Terry Walls, who you might might have heard of, who focused, she personally was in a wheelchair from MS, multiple sclerosis, and was able to restore her health and help so many other people. And again, there's countless people with different autoimmune conditions who were able to get their health back. And it doesn't mean it's easy. You know, I mean it's definitely easier to take a pill, to take thyroid hormone, to take anti-thyroid medication long-term or even to get your thyroid removed. Uh, but you know, it's and it's yeah, I mean, it's definitely worth trying to find, remove the underlying causes, uh, not just for your any current health condition that you're dealing with, but for prevention, to prevent other health conditions. But getting back to the question, that would be, in my opinion, the number one lie that most medical doctors, when you go getting back to Hashimoto's and Graves, most will say there's nothing that can be done. You just take this thyroid hormone for Hashimoto's or these three options for Graves disease.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Yeah, you know, it's it's it is really interesting what you said. I mean, obviously there's all these different treatment modalities and you know, some of the conventional ones where they just broadly subscribe them for, you know, prescribe them to all these patients. Yeah, I think it goes back to sort of the more we love in the medical community to have boxes and people go into a box and the box has a label on it, and it's just like, well, it works 33% of the time, you know, so we're just gonna do this every time and we're gonna heal a third of the people, you know. And uh unfortunately, um, and I and I'm just throwing out a number when I say 33% of the time, usually it's you know somewhere in the 50, 60 percent range, right? But you know, it it it doesn't work for everybody, is the point, you know, and I think this personalized medicine approach I think is super helpful, which is you know, which is what it sounds like you're doing. You're really looking at the case in front of you and what's the best route to go for that specific case. And that is is obviously really where we need to go in all aspects of medicine. Do you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yeah, I I did I definitely agree. I do want to ask you a question, because again, being a molds expert, have you ever had have you ever heard of any conventional medical doctor tell their patient that you might want to consider molds as as a cause of their chronic health condition?

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Uh if I have, I didn't remember it because that's how rare it is. You know, uh the truth of the matter is, you know, actually, I remember more often than not, you know, patients coming to me and telling me about their story, because I always ask, you know, as an intake process, just like a doctor, you you want to get to know the person a bit. I asked a lot of questions, you know, and part of part of what we're asking is like, what led you here? You know, what how did this how did this happen for you? And you know, a lot of people will say, well, I've had went to 20 different doctors and primary care physicians, and you know, they just, yeah, they did the normal lab test and said everything was fine. And then uh they either told me it's it's all on my head, and maybe I have some mental health issues and to go see a psychologist, or they said something to the effect of, you know, everything looks normal here. Here maybe here are some specialists you can go and you know consider uh on your journey. And, you know, they finally get to somebody like you who then goes, have you thought about mold? Yeah, as part of this of this problem. And, you know, that's really where it comes down to. And so I think the the trajectory is is not great because you know, you you get to 20 no's before you finally get somebody that's like, hey, I think I've got an answer for you. And um, you know, I think that's part of the struggle that people go through on top of just the the sheer expense of it all, right? Of just going to 20 different people, doing all these tests, like you're a lab rat, not getting the right tests, so you never really get the answers. And then, you know, you finally get a doctor that that has you know some answers for you, but you know, it's it's kind of a long drag out to get to that point, right? So I think that's why I love having these conversations so that you know the the average listener is someone who's going through it. And so, you know, I want them to be able to see that look, we're trying to progress as a society. And uh, you know, I'm speaking with the best and brightest minds who really care about helping the patient population get the answers that they need and are going about this in you know, non-conventional ways. Because truthfully, the way I see it, this is just my opinion, I think we're ready to evolve. You know, I think we're really ready to push medicine in the direction that you know is more effective for the individual and and not so group focused, right? And I think um just because it worked for you know uh some of the population, some of the patient population doesn't mean it's gonna work for all of it. And so I think that is where that personalized approach really comes into play. And you know, for me, we you kind of hit the nail on the head earlier. Um I've seen thousands of people really improve themselves by getting care from a doctor like yourself and by fixing their environment. I mean, just those two things. And when I say environment, I mean, yeah, maybe the mold in their home, but maybe also they started making better choices on the quality of water they're drinking, the quality of food they're eating, right? Like you mentioned. Maybe they're not doing so so much strenuous exercise. Maybe they just started, you know, getting the ball rolling, you know, kind of walking before they run, you know, type of situation. And, you know, when they make all those changes, yeah, I do see remarkable transformations. I mean, you know, I I've watched people go from like severely sensitive to EMFs, like they can't even be around a cell phone, to being like completely fine around, you know, EMFs again. I've seen people go from being in a wheelchair to not being in a wheelchair, as you know, one of the stories you mentioned. I mean, like, I've literally seen firsthand remarkable transformations by just putting in the work. And I'm not gonna sit here and say it's easy. You know, uh the the woman who was in a wheelchair, I know firsthand she spent about $60,000 to remediate her house. You know, that's not easy. That's not for the faint of heart. That does, that's not somebody, you know, not everybody can just write that check without, you know, getting financing or doing whatever, right? And then they've also put in the work with their doctor. And those are more checks you have to write. Those are more visits, those are more lifestyle changes you have to make. It's not an easy process. But to go from in a wheelchair to out of a wheelchair, to go from no quality of life to having a quality of life, that's priceless.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Agreed. Yeah. I mean, like you said, you can't, or the old saying goes, you can't put a price on your health. So, I mean, 60,000, a lot of money, but again, if it means living a good life again, I mean, it's definitely worth it.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Totally. I mean, I'm sure you've seen, you know, some radical transformations yourself. I know you mentioned your own radical transformation, you know. So we we see that these miracles are in fact possible.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Yep. Without question.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

On the flip side, we've also seen probably some horror stories on people that didn't take all the steps or hired people that didn't help them take all the steps. Like I'm curious from your perspective, you know, how many clients dealt with mold exposure and you've heard the horror stories where they hired some remediator and they didn't do a good job, and therefore, you know, they didn't feel better.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yeah, I mean, there's uh definitely stories of uh people who uh, you know, just uh I mean, that there are stories of people, and I mean you just mentioned an example of someone who hired a remediator, maybe didn't do a good job. I had a patient a number of years ago who we uh who had who had an obvious mold problem, but her husband wouldn't allow her to mediate to remediate. I'm sure you've come across that as well, where you know, so she, you know, she also was a I'm pretty sure it was a few years ago, I'm pretty sure it was a Graves patient. And uh and she asked, can I just treat the mold without removing it? And I told her, Well, you could, but you're gonna have to, A, you're gonna have to continuously treat because you're not removing the source, and then you're still not gonna be feeling optimal by not removing the source. And uh, and for for a while she did just treat just because her I think they did some mild remediation, they did some, but that didn't really help much, and the husband really wasn't cooperative, and so she was taking some binders and some glutathione and just doing some things for the mycotoxins, but again, not removing the source. So she did get some relief, but her husband, and and I'll tell you the truth, her husband never, as far as I know, I mean, she eventually stopped seeing me, and so I don't, as far as I know, her husband never budged. And I mean sometimes you have to make that decision. I mean, that's not for my my decision to make it choosing between staying with the spouse or not staying with the spouse, but essentially she was choosing that situation over her health.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

You know, uh it is a sad story. It actually happens quite frequently. Um, I would say even when I first started, you know, about 12 years ago or so, it it happened a lot more frequently. Um, you know, but it happens less frequently today, but still frequently enough that it's you know definitely part of the issue. I think part of it is just awareness is caught up a little bit. Um, but you know, you I I know you mentioned this this this situation was a couple years ago. Um, it's really unfortunate. I've got a good analogy for you that I use all the time. Um, and basically it's if you had an overflowing bathtub, right? Would you start putting towels down or would you first shut off the flow of water so that when you put the towels down, you were actually removing the water spilling over the floor. Because if you don't shut off the faucet first, it's exactly what you're dealing with in a mold issue. If you're living in a moldy home, you you have a faucet running. You're in you're you're taking on that water. And going in treatment, it's like putting towels down. Yeah, it's gonna help. I mean, it's better than just like nothing, right? But at the same time, if you really want to move the needle, I mean, you got to shut the water off. I mean, and look, every house is gonna have different levels of sources of mold and contamination, right? But the reality of it is, even if you just start with the worst issues and kind of work your way back, which you can do with data. I mean, you can make data-driven decisions on that. And you can also look at, well, how much impact does that area have? Like, for example, an HVAC that spreads particles all across the house, you know, that that that to me, if that's a source, great, you'd want to rectify that source. But let's say I had a source near that HVAC. Well, great. If I rectify the HVAC, but not that source, well, I'm just gonna be pulling it back into the HVAC from that source, right? And so it's like if you make some good logical decisions on how to improve the environment, you start with the worst offenders, you could really make a big impact to start shutting that faucet off. Even if you can't afford to shut it all the way off, you can get it to a drip, right? And then you start putting towels down, now you're really, you're really making headway. And maybe you can get healthy enough to see enough improvement to where you actually start to feel the investment work to go and take that from a dripping faucet and just turn it all the way off, right? And and I think that's really the magic in what's possible. Um, but you know, it's it's it's unfortunately when it comes like down to you know the spouse, the skeptical spouse, it's you you gotta get everybody on the same page. And you know, sometimes the spouse doesn't want to take the appointment, like they don't want to talk to the doctor, they don't want to talk to the expert. They're just like so rigid on this ain't it. This ain't my I'm not even gonna take a look at this. That's that it can be very difficult. I mean, I usually say, hey, let's just let's get everybody on a call so we can be on the same page. And so if if they take the call, usually it can go pretty well. Yeah, you take a look at the recent NIH paper from September 2025, learning about the effects of mold, that it's not just asthma and allergies, right? It can cause some severe chronic issues. And I think you know, really starting to help them like get better understanding of because I think a lot what a lot of people struggle with is well, wait a second, I I feel fine. It's just her or it's just my kid. Therefore, it can't be the house. Because if it was the house, we'd all feel this way. And it's like, no, unfortunately, we're all there's a bio individuality, we're all just different. We have different genetics, different epigenetics, we have different stuff we've been exposed to as a kid. You know, it's just we have different diets, we have different everything, right? We are inherently different. And so, with that being said, you know, it's not uncommon to see one out of the four or two out of the four, or even three out of the four feeling some level of health effects. As a matter of fact, it's not even uncommon to see them all experience different effects, right? And, you know, one of the analogies that I love uh in recent times that people can remember is like COVID. You remember in COVID, some people lost their sense of taste and smell, some people didn't, right? Perfect analogy of like how you can experience the same strain of something but have a different result. Like my wife and I in COVID, uh, you know, like post-COVID, if you will, where COVID was still rolling around, but you know, it was safer to go, you know, back out into the wild, if you will. You know, my wife and I went to Mexico on a trip, uh, you know, some sort of like wellness retreat type thing. And we got COVID when we're over there. And we came back home. And uh, you know, I I I distinctly remember she was totally fine. She was still working out, she just lost her sense of taste and smell. That was it. Like she was working out, was totally fine. She was, you know, up and at it in the morning, you know, and I was like literally dying in bed. I mean, I had like flu-like symptoms, was super sick, but I was able to eat and drink and taste everything, right? And I could smell, and it just felt for me more like a really bad flu. But for her, it just was totally fine and she's lost her sense of taste and smell. Same strain. There's no way we got two different strains, went to the same places, right? And so it really just comes down to we're all different, you know, and so people need to wrap their head around that so they can understand, like, okay, maybe they're experiencing it way more differently than I am. And maybe I'm experiencing it in a way I just I'm not even admitting to myself. Um, and so, you know, I I hope that's helpful for for those listening, and I hope that uh even for you gives you some ideas about some of the conversations that you can have in the future, because man, I I do feel like that is a big struggle um, you know, sometime to help get the whole family on the same page.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Yeah, no, I agree. In that situation, I I never spoke with the husband. It was just me speaking with the wife, and who knows if the husband was on the the, I guess it was Zoom, um Zoom conversations, but yeah, who knows, maybe he still wouldn't have taken action. But uh I agree, there's an increased chance of him, you know, of the spouse moving forward and and taking action if if they're involved in the conversation. But since he was never involved in the con conversation, that definitely didn't help. And he also did not experience from what what I remember, also not this didn't experience symptoms. Because you're right, if he did, if he felt just as lousy as you know, the the person I was working with, I'm sure he would have made a bigger effort when it came to the remediation. But you're absolutely right. Since he felt fine, uh, or maybe who knows, maybe he didn't feel fine, but you know, just not as bad as her, and he just dismissed his symptoms as being related to something else, too, because that's a big issue, as you know. Mold is hidden and you can't always see it, so you might feel lousy and attribute it, attribute the symptoms to something else.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

You know, on the flip side, I have had quite a few husbands and wives that you know weren't the ones that were quote unquote sick, right? But ended up going through with the remediation and the health protocols. And what's interestingly enough is I actually noticed when I asked the husband or wife after the fact, they did notice subtle health improvements. Like most examples you get is like, hey, I noticed I'm sleeping better, notice I have more energy, you know, I noticed like, you know, these small subtle things, and they're like, hey, I don't know if that's like because of the investment we've made. I'd like to think so. So it makes me feel better about the investment we've made. But you know, there there has been some things, and I've noticed like the house smells cleaner, fresher, things like that, you know, and and so the yeah, there's been some positive changes. And I and I find that interesting because, you know, for for me, I mean, sleep's obviously very important. I think that uh, you know, if we're getting better sleep, that's that's a really good thing. But I also think that a lot of people tend to normalize things. You know, when I on the when I've had these consultations and I'm like, hey, what what are you experiencing? I almost notice like people will give a symptom, but then also like give an excuse on the backside of that. Well, I I yeah, I'm more tired than usual. I don't really have as much energy than than normal. But but you know, maybe that's because I have two kids. Uh, or you know, maybe that's because I have a stressful job, right? And you know, it's it's I think it's sad that from a societal standpoint, we're not willing to be like, hey, I don't feel like I used to feel. Maybe I should get that checked out. Maybe there's something wrong, right? You know, why aren't we optimizing health and waiting for just like these health crashes before we actually look to make changes? What about you? Have you noticed any of those sort of, you know, like side stories about some subtle improvements or your people, you know, kind of giving some excuses behind some of these symptoms and trying to normalize things?

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Yeah, I mean it's it's common, just and it's not just, I mean, mold is one factor, but even what doing other things like reducing their toxic load in in different ways, just changing their cleaners and cosmetics and doing things uh from a diet and supplement standpoint to reduce their toxic burden. And um so um, so yeah, I mean, there's uh definitely there, you know, when it comes to sleep, there's a lot of different factors that could affect sleep, but you're right, people don't tend to look at their environment as a potential factor when it comes to sleep. And same thing with energy, when it comes to energy. I mean, uh a lot of people I work with, even prior to working with me, they've already made diet changes. They they've heard and did research on their own that you know, they so they know they need to make diet changes. Uh, many are even aware of the impact of stress and and make an effort to block out time for stress management. Unfortunately, not enough people do that, but but then um, yeah, with the toxic burden, I mean, don't get me wrong, there are people who work with me who have done an amazing job, even prior to working with me, of going more natural with cleaners, cosmetics, maybe even looking into mold, maybe do, you know, doing some testing in that area. But I think far more people overlook that aspect of our toxic environments. I mean, I was just talking with uh, you know, I just was uh had someone on my podcast that we were having a similar conversation just about you know why leaky gut's so common. And we were talking about just the, you know, people don't realize that the glyphosate, uh the microplastics, again, the mycotoxins, all of these affect the gut microbiome, uh, the permeability of the gut, the intestinal barrier. And um, same thing with uh a lot of other um aspects of our health as well. So just again, environment is huge. And some people get discouraged because there's no way we could completely eliminate our exposure to all of these. I mean, again, there's a lot we could do in our own home, but once you walk outside, you're gonna get exposed. And then even in your own home, it's you can't be a hundred percent free. I mean, there's still gonna be, you know, some exposure, but again, definitely you could do a lot in your own home. But um, but yeah, it just because you can't eliminate your exposure to all of the environmental toxins and toxicans, you know, it doesn't mean you're not getting benefit from greatly reducing the toxic burden, which you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

No, totally. No, it's it's very true. And it and it I am glad that we're having more of these conversations. I think it's really important, you know, and obviously the microplastics is more of a growing issue because we're you know, we we almost make so much clothing these days with synthetic fabrics and microplastics in the in them. Um, you know, and that obviously sheds throughout our environment as we're moving and sitting down on our couches, et cetera, et cetera. We're working out in these things. So there's a lot of friction and movement that breaks these particles apart and puts them into the air. You know, a lot of our cooking materials have a lot of these PFAS particles that unfortunately break down and appear in our environment, you know, and those get get in inhaled, and those are very difficult to rid the body of. And you've got the mold and the bacteria and the toxins from those and the chemicals that we spray in our houses, and hopefully not for the people listening to this podcast, but you know, some out there with the glade plug-ins and this and that, you know, you know, these these these create a lot of uh, you know, problems and the fragrances and this and that.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

I think the flames flame retardants, you know, the mattress that we sleep on.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Right. I mean, it's endless, right? And so obviously, not to overwhelm you as the audience and make you feel like life is hopeless, you just have to start to be mindful of these things, right? Because you you are what you breathe, just like you are what you eat. And so you really have to make sure that you know you're really thinking outside the box and trying to control what is is controllable. Like it's not controllable to have zero chemicals, zero synthetics, etc., which just wouldn't be possible. I mean, you drive yourself nuts, but you know, you you should and could find brands that you know are more on purpose for what you're trying to do. And you know, you can obviously get cottons as opposed to synthetics. Uh, you know, there there are brands that don't use flame retardants and everything that they make. Um, and there are great use cases for for avoiding things with flame retardants when you can, when it makes sense. Obviously, you're in an apartment, you need to have firewalls and things of that nature in case of an emergency. But it's it's really more the controlling what you can control. And if you control what you can control, you can reduce 90% of your exposure. You know, and never can reduce 100% on anything, but you can reduce 90% just by being more intentional about it. And so, you know, I think it's it helps hopefully create some hope there because it's not it's not so bad if you know what to look for. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

You know, controversies are kind of fun because sometimes, as actually I would argue almost all the time, there's at least some shred of truth in them, right? And uh, you know, we we usually look backwards in time and it'll be like, oh yeah, that controversy that we didn't think was true, turns out it was true, and here's the studies to back it up, right? Uh Lyme disease comes to mind, you know, uh as one example of something we look back 20 years later, you know, it's like, well, Lyme disease is actually a real thing. It wasn't a controversy. It was so controversial 20 years ago, right? But from your perspective, what are some controversies that you've seen, whether now or or through the years, that you know had some shred of truth in it uh and and and what really resonated with you?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

You mean real in relation to thyroid health, to what I work with.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Yeah, I mean, I'll I'll leave the door open for you to answer it how you like. I mean, whether it's diarrheid health or just overall health or anything out there.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

I mean, I'll say in a thyroid space, I mean, there's definitely a few controversies. I mean, one of them, which you might have heard of, is that you don't want to eat cruciferous vegetables because they're goitogenic, uh, genic properties, meaning that they can potentially inhibit thyroid activity, they uh can inhibit thyroid properties. And and, you know, just uh again, the re there is research. So again, you mentioned like, is there a truth of research? There is some research with animal studies, but they involve um there's no human studies as far as I'm aware of, and they involve using large amounts of raw cruciferous cruciferous vegetables, a lot more than than people would eat. So uh, and you know, so broccoli, kale, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, I mean, they're really healthy. And uh, and again, I I intentionally used cruciferous vegetables to try to inhibit thyroid activity in people with hyperthyroidism. Because I had like this was years ago, probably like over 10 years ago, had when whenever I would work with a pregnant woman, they didn't want to take the antithyroid medication, understandably, and I couldn't tell them not to take it, but they were worried about the potential side effects to the baby. And so I tried giving um these women have the uh or encourage them to eat large amounts of raw broccoli and other cruciferous cruciferous vegetables to see if we could naturally inhibit thyroid activity. And unfortunately it didn't work. So it would have been amazing if they could have taken that instead of the the thyard medication, eating the cruciferous vegetables. So that's that's one of the common controversies. People ask me all the time, you know, is it okay to, you know, I heard that you can't eat broccoli? And I say, well, you know, listen to your body. And there are certain conditions, like if someone has SIBO, small intestinal bacteria overgrowth, they might get a lot of gas bloating with cruciferous vegetables, and you might want to address the SIBO. So there are some people who can't tolerate them for different reasons, but from a thyroid standpoint, you know, I it's it's rare. I'm not gonna say that I haven't never had anybody say that I've eaten cruciferous vegetables and had some thyroid swelling. Rare. And if that happens, I just say, okay, listen to your body. Maybe you want to cook it first rather than have it raw, have some steamed broccoli, which is how I usually have it anyway. And a lot of people have it that way. But again, that's one of the controversies or myths. Um, another one is iodine, just uh, and still is a controversy as far as iodine. Uh, you have one end of the spectrum of people saying that practitioners saying that you shouldn't have any iodine if you have graves or hashimotos. And then there are others who say everybody with graves and hashimoto should have iodine. Um, and you know, I when I first started this journey, uh iodine was a lot more, it was a lot more common sense. To give high dose iodine. And again, so that was what I was taught. And I personally have experienced myself taking high dose iodine. And I did find with it, but I saw that not everybody did fine with high dose iodine. And so over the years I've become more cautious. So I can't say that I have everybody supplement with iodine. Now, I'm not too concerned about food sources of iodine. I mean, maybe in some cases you potentially could overdo it if you're eating a lot of kelp. And again, this is not the general public, but we're talking about in this case, probably more hyperthyroidism, although some would argue also Hashimoto's. But it's just funny how even today you have um practitioners who, again, someone wrote a book just talking about minimizing iodine, like not having over limiting it to 200 micrograms or less. And then you have Dr. David Brownstein who wrote a book, iodine, why you need it, why you can't live without it. Um, and you know, he he recommends higher amounts of iodine, higher doses of iodine, and apparently has had has had a lot of success. And that's years ago where I learned about the benefits of iodine, but but everybody's different, as you were mentioning earlier. So it's you know, just uh some people might do okay with supplementing with iodine, other people may not be uh able to handle it uh just for different reasons, you know, genetic reasons. Uh I mean, iodine does cause some oxidative stress. And if you're uh if you're low in antioxidants from a genetic standpoint or dietary standpoint, then there might be some issues with iodine. But yeah, so those are two that come to mind that apply to the thyroid space.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah, it's so interesting. And obviously, you know, you also hear about certain vegetables and how uh the oxalates become a problem with eating certain vegetables, and you know how the plants they don't, they're living organisms, they don't want to be eaten, right? So they have self-defense mechanisms which you know really create issues with with the body. And so, you know, there's there's obviously lots of controversy around that. And um, yeah, I too have seen the controversy around the iodine. Um matter of fact, like a lot of the big salts that people have kind of switched to, right? The Himalayan salt, the sea salt, they don't have iodine in them at all. Um, and so, you know, uh we're gonna find out, I guess, with new studies what that looks like. Because, you know, it's been probably what, 10 years since a lot of people have made that switch. So, you know, I myself included, have most mostly when we consume salt, it's Himalayan salt, they're sea salt. So, you know, uh we're gonna see how that trajectory has created some either positive momentum or negative momentum, and then we'll find out. Yeah, and and like like we said earlier, might be the individual, right? Like might be fine to cut it out for for for people, might be not fine to cut it out for certain people.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

So yeah, but you're probably getting it from other sources. I mean, eggs have iodine. Um I mean, if you're eating any type of seafood or fish that has iodine. So um, so again, you're you're getting it from other other sources, not just the the sea salt. So, but if you're if you're restricting the eggs and the seafood and and not getting it from, I mean, dairy's a another source as well. So, I mean, yeah, so there's there are and like I said, there there are people, practitioners who are intentionally telling people to be really low. So you're right, we'll see like in the future, those people who are really restricting iodine with things um how how they turn out.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

So you you created the saved framework, and can you explain a little bit about what that is at a very high level?

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Yeah, so the saved thyroid framework, safe thyroid method, uh, so I mean it's all about addressing the cause of the problem, except for the first, the S. The S is for safe symptom management because with with hyperthyroidism graves, again, you want to be safe. You if you have elevation in thyroid hormones, that could increase heart rate. There's something called the thyroid storm, which is rare, but it's uh it's a medical emergency. Uh so we want, again, we just want to make sure that thyroid hormone levels are under control. So whether you do it naturally like I did, or if you have to take the medication, the antithyroid medication, that's fine. So there's safe symptom management, there's align adrenals and blood sugar, uh, there's vanquish infections and heal the gut. There's eliminate reactive foods and toxins, and then detect and remove hidden triggers like mold and stealth infections like the Lyme, store trauma. So it's uh again, just really trying to do more than just manage the symptoms. That's an important aspect of it, but really just to address the stressors, address the infections, do things to heal the gut, reduce the toxic burden. I mean, all you know, and then again, the diet by eliminating reactive foods, uh, just uh like gluten. Uh, and I mean, all these are important. And I mean, they're all pieces of the puzzle. We get, as I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of people that work with me, they've already made diet and lifestyle changes, yet they're still feeling lousy. And it's because, not because those didn't help, but because that those are only pieces of the puzzle. And that's why, I mean, and you you're of course well aware of that, because the molds issue and the line that you just spoke about, there's so many different things, and that's that's the challenge. And that's why some people don't want to take the natural approach, is because it sounds complex and it could be. Um, but what they don't realize is if they don't take care of their health, it's just that not only is their current health condition going to worsen, but as we mentioned earlier, potentially they're gonna develop other chronic health conditions in the future.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

For sure. No, I I I totally get that. You gave us so many gifts today. Um I'm curious if you could only change one thing about how thyroid is treated today, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Just do more than just give the medication, just give do more than the conventional treatments. Most of them are not in favor of the natural approach, which I understand, but most of them will discourage people from changing their diet and lifestyle, um, which is crazy. I mean, if I I I would like to think if I was an endocrinologist and if I was skeptical, I would still say, well, I don't know if that'll help, but it's not never gonna hurt to change your diet, uh, improve your diet, manage your stress, reduce your toxic burden. And so a person leaves the doctor's visit just hopeless, you know, feeling like there's nothing I could do. I just got to take this medication for the rest of my life, or I gotta get my thyroid removed. I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

You know, I think that we need to be more open-minded, we need to really learn from one another. You know, look, I get it, like it's it's a lot of school that a doctor goes to. You know, you you you really learn a wealth of information, you know. But my philosophy is no matter what you do, no matter how much school you go through, you know, life is meant to be always learning. And uh, you know, if you can always increase your knowledge and be more open-minded, you know, then you're you're definitely gonna be able to make more of an impact. Um, you know, I'm always studying, I'm always learning, I'm always trying to learn new things, always trying to improve my craft. And I think that's part of what really everyone should be doing. You know, if you uh stay closed-minded and you always think you're the smartest person in the room, guess what? You never really grow. And that that kind of sucks.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Uh, I wanted to really thank you for taking time out of your busy day to be here with us. Uh, you know, before you go, can you please let everybody know where they can find you, how they can work with you, etc.?

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Um, sure, thank you. So uh so website save my thower.com, and that's where you can find the podcast. Uh, I have a few books on Thoward Health, one on Hashimoto's and two on hyperthourism and graves, which you could check out by visiting Amazon. I have a substock newsletter, Heal Graves Naturally, uh, Savemythhour.com forward slash graves newsletter. And uh yeah, you can find me on YouTube and Instagram and Facebook. Uh, but um, but yeah, the book and the podcast, if you're new to this and you're really just learning to looking to learn more for free or low cost, those are probably the the resources I would start out with.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

Thank you for for taking the time and being here with us and sharing your wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. It was an honor being on a guest on your podcast. And again, thank you also for everything you do. Just you're also helping countless people by um being more aware of the issue with mold and allowing them to test and remediate.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Yeah, no, the feeling is mutual. Love, love, love the teamwork approach. You know, I I couldn't do what I do without people like you really helping people get over the finish line. You know, uh obviously it's it's like we said earlier. You got to shut off the faucet, good. Now we got to put down the towels and clean up the mess, right? And so it's that teamwork approach that really makes this dream come true. So really appreciate uh you know you for taking the time again, and we will see you probably sometime again soon. Thank you.