The Who Am I Podcast Ep - 5 (ft. Joel Jelen)

Episode 5 of The Who Am I Podcast

In this conversation with Joel Jelen, breathwork and wellbeing coach and author, we sat down and unpacked what most men completely overlook.

We talked about how what looks like a stress problem, a mindset issue, ADHD, poor sleep or low energy can sometimes come down to something far more fundamental.

We explored dysfunctional breathing patterns, over breathing, mouth breathing and how they quietly dysregulate the nervous system. We got into the link between breath and that constant wired feeling, the science of nervous system regulation, and how one conscious inhale and exhale can create a measurable shift in your state.

If you are always on and do not know how to switch off, this episode will land.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome everybody to episode five of the Who Am I podcast with me, Paul Garagan and our co-host Carly Skelly. Before we get started, I just want to introduce our sponsor for this podcast. It is DBF Cloven. And they do some sportswear and activewear. And you can find them on Instagram at DBF Cloven. And just a massive, massive thank you to David, who has supported the podcast and has enabled us to do this to bring some of the top quality guests on the platform that we do. So thank you, David. So today we've got an amazing guest, an amazing friend, and somebody who I call the Godfather in Liverpool got involved in Bradwinner before anybody knew it was a cool thing to do or was a trend. And he's one of the very men in this city that I really look up to. Joel, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:48

No pressure. Pressures for tires. Um yeah, always makes me feel a little bit awkward. I'm a confident guy, but when somebody says I'm the godfather, anyway, thank you. I'm doing really well. I'm doing really well. It's great to be staring at you two and being in your company. As always, never forget the first long hug we had in a similar setup in a studio not too far from here. So um certain things you never forget, the certain impressions that you have on people, and vice versa. And that's definitely one for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

So thank you. Thank you, Joel. So obviously, you know, the people that are watching, you know, many people might know what it is that you do. Um, and the reason I said the godfather means it's directly the link just because of you being a master of the breath. Okay. And something that I want to just dive straight into to start the podcast is talking about how important the breath is. You know, we've got a lot of people out there in the world that are struggling right now, whether it's anxiety, stress, nervous system dysregulation, trauma, you know, the amount that the world's throwing at us. Let's talk about the breath, mate.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Let's talk about the breath. I mean, the problem in talking is that you blow out loads of CO2, which is a waste gas, but it's also an energy driver. So you find people who are just getting straight into it. Yeah, people who are teachers, people who work in the sales, if they talk a lot, they are wasting one of the most valuable assets that we have to protect our immunity, to make us well. Um, CO2, it carries oxygen into our cells. I know you know all this. This is more for the benefit of people listening who are avid, have got an avid interest in what we're talking about today. Um, the breath is such a hidden function in our body that it's not easy to stand up like I do in front of many people, or even when I'm working one-to-one and explain the power of the breath. Because I meet a lot of people who sometimes are trying to hide anxiety. I can see where they're breathing from. I'm one of those weird guys who watches people and where they breathe from. And I'm never convinced by someone who looks really relaxed, but I see they're breathing from their chest, or I see the mouth breathing, and I exactly what's going on for them underneath. And there are loads of people that I see in a corporate setting, for an example, who are staring at me, some rolling their eyes because they don't want to be there. The boss sent them. Carly and I spoke about this a little bit before today. Um, others who are really interested, and I can't help but look at where they breathe from and know. And try to explain to someone the power of breathing well is not easy because of that hidden facet of dysfunctional breathing. It's so experiential. You know this from all the great things you're doing, your retreats, etc. People have to experience this. So maybe even the two guys who are producing, directing today, they've got to be on their game, they've got to be on a heightened sense of anticipation. They're probably not breathing from the right place or breathing in a rhythmic way that helps their health until someone points it out, until they change their breathing. And when they feel making the contrast between how they then breathe once they're fixed prior to that, it's an incredible contrast, and the power of it is all in the case studies I've had. You've got some fantastic, fantastic case studies from the things that you've done. It's just huge. But the tough thing about it is helping people to get to the point where they experience the change. But there's some easier ways I've found over the years of doing that, and again, Carly and I had a little chat earlier, and I alluded to the five parts of your day sleep, day and night, sleep, exercise, relaxation, work. Eating. If you can breathe well, you don't have digestion issues, if you can breathe well, you don't have sleep apnea, if you can breathe well, you're not puffing when you're running around the park, and so it goes on. So you can measure how well you breathe, apart from something that we call the control pause, where you simply hold your breath for a certain amount of time until you feel air hunger with your mouth closed and your nose pinched. It's a reasonable way of scoring how well you are at breathing, breathing functionally, but just have a look at your day-to-day. What's going on for you? Unfortunately, so many people are so busy leading a fast life. They don't look internally. Again, I know you know all this stuff, but they don't look internally. What's really going on for them? Look in the mirror and say, My sleep. Is that normal to snore? Is that normal to not sleep all the way through all the time? Is that normal to have indigestion? Is it normal to feel anxious? And sometimes it's a case of someone says to themselves, I don't want to feel like this anymore. Or someone takes them to one side who loves them, family, friends, etc., and says, You want some help? So often it takes a pretty serious situation. Sometimes people like us out there marketing what we do, creating awareness. There's lots of people looking for solutions right now, more than ever, probably. NHS isn't going to provide it, the disease management system. We both agree on that. So it's up to us, isn't it, to carry on feeling this empowered to share what we know and help people.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

Yeah, and this seems to be for me, there's like an ignorance sometimes around people thinking it needs to be something big or extravagant. And I've had it with some of my own family that that they feel like the breath, like why why do I need to be taught how to breathe, or why do I need to focus on my breath? And you know, the importance of your breath of taking one you know conscious inhale and exhale into the right parts of your body, like the improvement that that just makes immediately on your physiology, on your nervous system, on your mindset is incredible. And like we've probably just seen on the retreats we've been on, like the breath for me is one of the most empowering, magical aspects of what it means to be human if we can explore it on all levels. But why do you think there is such an ignorance sometimes and maybe you know people not wanting to use this tool, if you like, um, you know, out there in the world?

SPEAKER_02 7:39

It's a bit esoteric, the breath, isn't it? It's a little bit out there. Um, I think it's just a question of time. So I I've stopped trying to answer that question to myself, and I feel like it's like I've said earlier, it's our duty to keep spreading the word. And then notice how this is slowly feeding into mainstream, as in there are more athletes out there who are flagging the power of the breath. I see it in rowing in the Olympics, I've seen it in athletics. Um, I'm sure it's in MMA and boxing, you're a little bit closer to that scene than me. Yeah. Um role models are huge, aren't they? Positive role models are huge. You see it in football with um people like Erlin Haaland taping his mouth at night. That looks less weird when he's doing it compared to me doing it, going into a corporate setting and taping my mouth and people looking at me like I've got two heads, you know, and who's this crazy dude and comparing me maybe to David Icke.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

You know, so I think I think it's definitely true story. I think it's definitely definitely role models. That is definitely a thing. And it's a question of patience. So when I look at pioneers in well-being, whether it's say in retail, who maybe started in the mid-90s, like companies like Planet Organic are a huge fan of, um, they had to spend 30 years banging a drum talking about the dangers of insecticides, pesticides, herbicides, etc., in food. It took them 30 years. And unfortunately, in spite of how social media and the way that online marketing massively accelerates your message, things take time. And you've got to put in the groundwork and be committed like we all are.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

And it might be another five years before this doesn't seem so weird. Yeah. But that's that's what I think it's about. And thankfully, in some ways, life goes quickly enough for us to have our head down, carry on doing the stuff that we love for this to come to fruition eventually. But like I said earlier, it is it's a bit strange in some ways because why wouldn't your GP ever point out to you or someone in health point out to you that breathing is the foundation of good health? Why won't they point out to you that breathing dysfunctionally lends to more than 150 medical conditions? Well, because uh in um the medical textbooks that still get used by university university students studying medicine is half a page on the bor effect of the transportation of oxygen into the blood cells. So, what do you expect someone in conventional medicine to know and share with you? Now, if this was coming much more from conventional medicine, it'd be more accepted. We wouldn't be seen as quacks or whatever the expression might be you care to use. But that's one of the issues. It's a huge issue. And in some ways it gets worse, in spite of the fact that I love the way conventional medicine is now using prescribing, socially prescribing. Why is a GP socially prescribing someone to me? This is a true scenario, but he doesn't know why somebody, and this has happened a few times now, doesn't know why somebody behaves, he calls it behaves in the way they do in relation to their mental state, and he's referred them to me. Okay, yeah, I've been studying, working on this for three decades, doesn't matter. I'm not a doctor, I haven't studied medicine. Okay. Um I'm not doing myself down here. I'm just thinking kind of rationally, or it's rationally to me, they should know much more about the power of the breath. So I'm not getting it from those who are most respected, but still largely in the population. That's a huge thing. It shouldn't really be coming from well-being advocates because that's generally where the messages come from. Yes, there are fairly well-known doctors who have got a good insta following, and you'll know who they are, who've been pushing the message about the power of breathing, but there aren't enough of them.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

No, it's quite interesting you sh you're saying that because my background is nursing, and I work sometime in respiratory, and I never knew nothing about breath. This was before I've obviously come away from the NHS and gone into more holistic therapies to get breath was just just just a given, really. We never really explored it deeply in any of my training, right throughout university, and even on the wards in a like a respiratory um setting. And I think one of our previous podcasts we had a doctor on, and he I I've it stuck with me that the NHS isn't there to, you know, make us well, it's to treat us when we're unwell. And I feel like there is a big shift now where people are becoming a little bit more open to not only rely on the one, the one system and the looking at other things. And equally what you said there, the two words you said I I couldn't agree more is patients and role models. There is a lot more athletes who obviously come in again from from sport for me personally, as already come away from come away from the NHS and and and then going into sport and becoming a boxer. I'd been delving into a lot about the breath, and that's where it's sent me, you know, on a journey, and it absolutely helped me. And over the past few years, we're seeing a lot more. Um, and and young people look up to role models. I think it's it's always important to have good role models. So Haaland is one of them that you know, some of the boys in my school so Djokovic as well.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

He he talks about it, he's a tennis player.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah, he's a great, great role model. I actually shared one of his videos today again, talking about like regardless of where you come from, anything's possible.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

Even Jake Poe. He's one of my favourites, Djokovic.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, yeah, he's he I absolutely love him and what he's all about. Um, but yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? Because people do look up to people. So again, I think we've said, like you've into I love the way you introduced Jill at the very beginning. You've been doing this since about like in the 90s in Liverpool, it's more the past five years, it's become this big thing. Whereas you've lived this for a long period of time. So again, there's more people now, much more aware of it. So people are looking up to some of these people thinking, okay, if he's doing it, there must be something in it. So it's opening doors, and again, patience.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

I always remember in my box, and like my coach actually said to me, the one superpower, patience. If you've got that as a human, you'll you'll get you'll get with anywhere in life.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

I couldn't agree more. The patience thing is that as a long subject, but it's definitely a superpower to have patience.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

There's so many great quotes about patience as well, which I won't reel off now, just make me sound more clever than I am. But I look at my own life in terms of relationships in particular, and you want certain things to kick in and happen. And I've never been one to be a force in terms of selling anything. I I have this saying in my head anyway, that what's good for you is hard to sell. So I don't try to sell, I just try to engage and share. But so many great things happen from patience, and then when they do happen, you realise it was the right time for them to happen as well. Because lots of things can happen at the wrong time for you if you force it.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

So patience is something that again, patience comes with breathing.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Yeah, I was gonna say this is so interlinked, isn't it? Like if you're patient, you're gonna be in a c you're in a state of of calm, your nervous system is gonna be in balance when you're patient. Whereas when we're in force, our breathing is not gonna be probably functional and and supportive in what we're looking for in life. Sometimes when we force, we bring stuff like you said, when we're not ready. And if your nervous system isn't ready to hold what's about to come, that's gonna have like a negative impact, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 15:42

I'm yet to work, Joe, with any any man. It's yet to work with any man who's got anxiety, who hasn't got dysfunctional breathing. I still haven't met any man and any man who says to me they've got ADHD, they've got these symptoms, they can't sleep, the mind's busy, you know, the mind won't stop. And I we do a couple of breathing tests with them, and immediately I say to them, You've got dysfunctional breathing, your breathing mechanics are just not on point. You know, they've got desynchronized breathing, the breathing into the chest. Um, and they're sort of mind-blown at how simple something is and how easy it is to just start to implement some of these simple practices, a morning breathing practice, a nighttime breathing practice, daily breath awareness, just at certain moments when you're holding, when you're huffing, when you're sighing. I know you're big on that. Um, you know, you taught me a lot about that. I think our conversation when we met a couple of years ago, Joel, is something that pushed me more into finding out a little bit more about it because of the expertise that you know that that you were bringing to the table, mate just blew me away.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Thank you. Six different types of size. I've got time to go through them now, but um I did a a series of um talks as part of a program for an education academy, and um people were, I'll use your expression, blown away by the ease with which you can switch and the simple nature of some of the breathing exercises. And also I turned their heads talking about mindfulness because some of them had had some good experience of mindfulness, but it was more based on being told stuff like, now I want you to all just relax and forget about any thoughts that you might have in your head and just just let your body slow down. And I just tried to explain to them that's probably the most unfair thing that anyone could ever say to them. And they said, quite a few said, Why? I said, Well, mindfulness was invented around 2,000 years ago. Look at the pace of life now. I couldn't, for one, and I'm a so-called expert on this apparently, sit in a room and eradicate any thoughts that are currently in my head. How the hell do you do that? So there were two sides to it. One was people don't actually want, according to this um group of people, generally don't want someone to tell them to stop thinking about stuff, slow down. They actually want to be shown how. But you can't, I don't feel, say to people this is what you need to do. You've got to say how. And then often with that breathing message in mind, showing people how it's done, it really sends people. It really does, has a huge impact on people. Again, before we were Carly and I were talking, uh a woman said to me um at a recent event that she was able to get to sleep all the way through now was previously was getting up all the time at 3 a.m. And one of the things that I explained to her was about the nervous system, you know, all this stuff. If you're going too quick, you're living in sympathetic mode. You can't keep pressing the accelerator. Where's your break? Where's your balance? And so some of the concepts are out there. We all understand the concept of balance. When we start to look into it more, what does it really, really mean? So balance to do with food. Don't eat burgers every day, don't drink every day, etc. What does it mean in terms of how you breathe? Well, if you breathe quick, what does that do for you? Think about the last time you were breathing quick. Were you really, really calm? There's only one scenario I've ever met where somebody was calm and they were breathing quick, and it was because of vitamin D. They'd overdosed on vitamin D, so it made their their heart race. That's just stupid. But anyway, generally you meet people who breathe quickly, but they're on the go all the time, they make stupid decisions, they're not that nice to be around. I'm generalizing, but this is the thing as opposed to enabling them, so not just telling them to breathe slower, enabling to do it. And when people find out that if you breathe less by doing all the things that I help share, some of which you much of which you know about, how it changes your mood. The mind controls the body, the breath controls the mind. It really sends people. So it's very empowering for me and for them to see that.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

Yeah, and it's you know, life speeding up, if you like. So naturally, people are gonna be more stressed. And I believe that the systems that are set up, the workplaces that are set up, you know, everything that's set up, if you like, is set up to stress the system. So if the system's constantly in a state of stress, you know, we're gonna be in a sympathetic state, if you like, we're gonna be in fight or flight. If we're in that all day, every day, what's happening to the immune system? The immune system's getting down regulated, which means it's switching off, which means you're gonna be getting more sick, you're gonna be more prone to disease. We see testosterone levels in men. If you like, plummeting, if you like, while stress levels are rising, there's got to be a direct link between that for me. When we're in that stressful state, the food choices that we make, if you like, the habits that we choose, maybe drinking, maybe you know, making having arguments with your partner. Um, what I found with a lot of men right now, Joel, is a lot of relationships are struggling now more than ever. And this is all, you know, for me, to do with a dysregulated system or two people in a relationship having a dysregulated system that could be, you know, I'm not saying would do everything for it, but it would create a lot of space within you as a man or as a woman if you were just able to take a breath.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

I think that's something I think really important to touch upon because there is the system is going full pelt and people are struggling to maintain that peace. And when they're feeling like they're in some sort of crisis point, they are then looking for like, how am I going to fix myself? How am I going to get through this? And we are jumping into some like responses of like, you know, going to the doctors, getting, you know, a prescription with antidepressants, and we're looking for some of these things that are an external, and we're forgetting internally like what we can do. As a human, like we are incredibly powerful. Like our body and our breath is like, you know, we hold an innate wisdom, but we're just not aware. Not enough people are aware. And that's why I love doing these types of podcasts so that people hopefully will watch and think, okay, the breath, what what's this all about? And and and then explore something that actually self-empowers them. Because if we're always reliant on that external support, that external thing outside of ourselves, it's disempowering to us as a human. When, you know, I say it quite often, I feel we're like a pharmacy ourselves. And what we can do, change your breath. You can actually change the hormones you're releasing within your own body. You can change your own emotional state just through breath alone, which you know it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

100%. It's mad, isn't it? When you you say to people, if you slow your breathing down, you change the gases in the brain, and the brain adapts. So you're breathing slower, puts you into parasympathetic mode. That's that thing, isn't it, about the pilot? You're the pilot, not the passenger, and you do have control. Um, as you know, I could talk about this all day long. It's just and it's so wide and varied. But going back to the mindfulness stuff, um I try to encourage people to really understand how the breath can take you to where you need to be in your mind. And people confuse mindfulness with the mind and how we can think our way out of loads of things. And we all know that it's about feeling your way out of stuff. So the amount of people I've come across, particularly on one-to-one's, who are in a situation maybe related to their relationship, they've got problems and they're trying to think of their a way out of it. It might be started by a trigger. Their partner's really annoyed them. They've looked at a direct experience they've had with their partner. They then look at the secondary experience to start to catastrophise. How can they get them back? Or what can they do? They start to think, think about all the different things that are wrong in their life. And then they understand the power of the breath, how that relates to their nervous system, and how it's better to, if they're triggered, have awareness. Where's the trigger? Is it a pain in your neck? Is it a pain in your tummy with butterflies or what's going to happen to you? Where's the pain? Do the body scan stuff that you know all about. How can they generate acceptance of all the stuff that they're feeling? And then slowly let that pass. That ultimately they're dealing with fear by trying to think their way through it. And the breath through mindfulness, but using the breath ultimately can allow people to start to feel their way through and come to better conclusions for themselves and for their relationship. So I found that's one of the most powerful ways I could get through to people. Again, it could be to do with negative thinking. There's that negative aisle in human beings. That if you two lovely guys knock me for whatever reason in a negative way, I couldn't believe you do that for a minute. If you did, it's very easy because of the way the human design is set up for me to take that on board and go over and over and over it in my head straight away. Whereas you say something positive to me, it takes up to 20 times, according to science, for that to actually sit in my head for me to believe it. So we're designed in such a way to take negativity in a certain way. So we've got to find ways you might call it profound, or you might call it simple, ways to help ourselves, and it's through the the nervous system via the brain, via changing your breathing. So it it has such a massive impact on your life. In some ways, you don't need to think about it. Again, that word think, think about it too much. Just put yourself in a position. But whilst I agree with 100% of what you said, for some people, when I stand in front of a load of people in a room and they know what I do, I can see the fear in some people. I usually crack a few really bad jokes at the start of a gig just to warm it up. Like I might say to a group of people, I want you to look at the person next to you and say to them, You're really cool. And they do that, and the room lightens up, and it's lovely. Everyone's smiling, joking, and they forget for a minute that I'm gonna talk about stuff that might be to do with anxiety. So there's lots of people who definitely struggle with crossing the border and facing their fears. It's a brave thing to do, isn't it? To look at yourself and go, you know, I don't want to be nervous going into a meeting with my boss. I don't want to be nervous talking to my partner about the stuff of life that could massively change our lives and force us apart. So it's helping people overcome the fear, and it's up to us to channel ways of how people can ease into this rather than just I'm not saying you do this at all, but I think there's plenty of people out there who just say breath is the solution or related modalities are the solution. How can we engage, warm people into understanding what we're doing to make it feel that word feel easier for them to cross that border?

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Yeah, and I think you know, with a complex system, and one thing I say to the men that I work with is the breath is one of them pillars, if you like, but it's not every pillar because we need to be able to release tension from the body, which might be schematics, if you like. We need to understand our nervous system cognitively as well as as at a felt level. We need to be able to use the mind to the betterment of what we're trying to do with our lives, if you like. Um, you know, it's not about just cutting off from the mind and just going, oh, right, I'm gonna fail or I'm just gonna be in the nervous system. It's as you know as well, Joel, and and you too, Carlos, like you'd have a top-down approach, which for me, you know, is the West. It's it's it's the way like modern therapies are, it's all talk therapy, it's all CBT, it might be visualization, it might be positive thinking. It's got a place, but it ain't a complete system by any means because you're cutting people off from the body, you're cutting people off from the wisdom of the body, you're cutting people off from the nervous system, you're also not connecting people to the breath, and you're not empowering people. And I think if we can help people understand their system, which is what I try my best to do, you know, usually when there's something going on with somebody, Joel, there's usually something not right in one of these systems or all of them. There's something off. Yeah. And these four, you know, them four pillars for me, it's nervous system, breath, somatics, mind. When we bring them four pillars into alignment, if you like, we've got a man who's able to, you know, take control of his life to an extent and take control of his own system, no matter the circumstances that the external world is putting in front of him. Equally, when things are going wrong for maybe that type of man, something's off with one of them pillars. So if we start to correct what's going on with them, you know, it might be through accessing past experiences, it might be through just correcting your breath moment to moment, your functional breathing. It might be just doing a little bit of mindset work, is all you need. It might be going doing a little bit of cold water, which we spoke about, something you know that that might make you feel good or going and moving some energy. I know you're laughing at the cold water. Might make you feel cold.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

I love the somatic stuff, by the way. I think that's fantastic. I I've gone out with my friends over the years and still do it and dance. Um, I think you say dance up here, but anyway.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Um it's one of my favourite things, dancing. I loved it. Absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

And I didn't realise until I acknowledged myself in the 90s that um what you were doing was somatic bodywork. Yeah. The way you fling your arms and your legs around. You've got a really weird picture of me now flinging my arms and legs around. But um actually I had one on my shelf as well. Cheers, me and you. I I absolutely love it, and I I realised soon afterwards what it was all about. Um, just so powerful. I try to couch a lot of this in really simple terms. I'm from a very down-to-earth background, which is why I love Liverpool coming from uh uh uh East London. Um a very down-to-earth background that enables me to think about this in really simple terms. So, for example, if you go on holiday, why do you, when you have a really chilled holiday, come back with loads of ideas because you've just had a rest? And why has no one ever said to you, work hard, play hard, rest hard? Why do people undervalue the power of rest?

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

And sitting and doing nothing. The amount of times I've been in a room full of people, and I say, okay, everyone, quick question, nothing personal. Well, when was the last time you did absolutely nothing? And no one can say uh last Tuesday. Just people don't remember doing nothing and the power of doing nothing.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yeah, I completely resonate with that so much, and you'll probably agree. So we've obviously just been away one of um retreats in Slovakia, and obviously there was a lot involved as in like a lot of breath work, different styles of breath work, cold water. Um, but one of the biggest things that like the takeaways for a lot of the women were fun and laughter. So some days we were just like laughing and dancing and and just being really playful, and I think everybody was quite surprised how healing that felt to their own system, and there was like a remembering in that process of life is not here just to be work, work, work. And although the system makes that really difficult, it's so important to remember that that whole process. So, yeah, I think somatics, because again, people think somatics soma just means like the body. So, somatics is just some um body work, and normal dancing is that we can overcomplicate it. Like you say, somebody's looking for this big thing. Breath and movement are two really powerful healing modalities. And when you were talking before, something came up into my mind, and I've used this kind of like theory a few times, you know, like the the animal that shakes. So, again, humans are very complex, and the evolution of humanity now in our brain, we have the ability to remember so much, which is amazing, but it can be our biggest, biggest problem. So, when we go through certain experiences in life, because that memory lives not only in the mind but also the body, because we often do not move and finish a process, we carry that energetically, which is causing a lot of our dis-ease and disbalance within our nervous system, within our, you know, homeostasis. Like when an animal is an example of you, and you can see this, you can get this up on a video of an animal in a chase. And when an animal actually comes to safety, they will excessively shake, they will finish that emotional process and move that so that they might live in fear, but very vigilant still, because they'll have that survival mechanism within them, but they're not so much like fearful and oh, I'm not going to anymore. Whereas that's something we have as humans. So if we were able to understand the importance of somatics and move them through processes, again, something simple but yet so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

There's quite a few little down-to-earth one-liners that have been out there for years, that people run by you, sometimes people older, younger than you, doesn't matter, same age, family, friends, etc. Stuff like take a breath, have a breather, shake it off. It all relates to somatic and what we're talking about here, but it goes in, but does it really go in and people understand the power of what it is? So I I I introduce these expressions into conversations I have with people again, just talking about being down to earth. And there's so many different things that I I relate to what I talk about in a down-to-earth way. Um just stuff like if you were able to have more parasympathetic time, write down a list of things that you would do, write down a list of feelings that it conjures in your mind of how you feel about it. So I asked various individuals on the floor usually, and uh somebody said to me the other day, equanimity, as in composure, which is uh one of my favourite words to talk about. And then you think about the antithesis of it. If you're not in that uh parasympathetic zone and you're breathing ridiculous amounts a minute, etc., how can you relate to any of these things? Which is why maybe when you talk about the breath, it's so because it's literally nothing to do with how so many people are leading their lives, this is the pro this is the problem, this it quite feels foreign of for a better phrase. So how can we make it use this phrase uh cool? How can we make it cool to go slower? How can we make it cool to rest and do nothing? As opposed to be that entrepreneur that gets up at four in the morning, goes to the gym, goes to the office at six, has bashed out a hundred emails by ten a.m., then goes back to the gym at six o'clock, then has his protein shake and goes to bed and carries on and does that one of the big things that I like talking about as well is sustainability, which relates to the environment generally, but for me it relates much more to human beings. If we could just set out, whether it was a resolution in January or this weekend or next week or the rest of the year, what actually represents a sustainable lifestyle for us in terms of how we behave from head to toe and what does that look like? Because if something isn't sustainable, don't start it. Don't start a business if it's not sustainable, don't start a diet if it's not sustainable, whether it's a detox or what whatever else it is. So looking at sustainability can do you such a massive favour.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

It's as simple as a smart goal, isn't it? Because if you do so you set yourself up for fail, for failure, that then comes again, like you said, the mind's very complex, complex. It's a bit like, oh, I've failed, yeah. And then we can get quite hard on ourselves. So making it realistic.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

But I think where that even comes from, like this um certainly with a lot of men, and I feel more women as well now nowadays. If you like, it's this constantly starving, this constantly doing, and it's like devices, AI, life is pulling us into the head, and a lot of energy is in the head, and we're being disconnected from our body, you know. Um how hard is it for men to stop doing? If you like when the phone's always going, or you know, you've always got emails to send, or you're trying to show it for your kids, or you're trying to be with your partner, or what whatever's going on, the amount of distractions and things that are grasping and clutching at our awareness in this day and age, it's never ever happened before. And we're in sort of unprecedented times. And I feel like how hard it is for men to be able to do that, because I even ask men just to do 10 minutes breathing a day. That's it. 10 minutes a day. To get them to do that is one of the hardest things to get anybody to do, just to give me 10 minutes a day. And if you give me then 10 minutes, I promise everything will begin to change because once we get give them a little taste of the shift that can happen from that, as you know, everything else will begin to change. But something that you were talking of as well before that I just wanted to pull back to that came up for me is why do you think it's so hard for men to be in their body compared to women? You know, when we're talking about movement, because you love like somatic type stuff, I'm more like stoic, as in like with my practices, I like like my breathing. I do like a bit of yoga. I'm very like structured in my practices, and you're very like flowy with your practices. Like, what do you think the difference is with that in terms of men and women? Because I do feel like women do are more connected naturally to the bodies, aren't they? The men, would you say?

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Can I can I uh give my very quick opinion and then you give your way better educated opinion? Women are far more in touch with their emotions. We know this from science. Now, is that because that's a physical, physiological, mental, spiritual, psychological thing? But that's what we get told by, admittedly, traditional science. Women are far more in touch, they can show their emotions, etc. But us guys, largely, no, we're not. And it is quite a thing when a man is, and I know plenty of women who are put off by men who are more in touch with their emotions. So it's difficult for both genders. Obviously, it's more than two genders, but it it is difficult. Um that's all I know on the subject. Go on.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

I believe it's an energetic thing. So if we look at polarity, if we look at the masculine and the feminine, women naturally in their fullness are more feminine based, but have this masculine pole. Whereas men are naturally more energetically masculine, but have this again, this feminine pole. Like you say, this major story from history of what we've gone through different times. So men were the hunter and gatherers, some men couldn't really always feel because they had to go out and protect the tribe, keep the tribe safe, you know, from from animals and wildlife, and they had to go and get the food that's fast forward. So this, like really back, you know, if we think tribal communities again, then we've got war. So men have been told again deeply in their psyche, men don't cry, toughen up, come on, crack on. Whereas women have been able to feel a little bit more. However, I believe modern modern femininity and masculinity are very fractured because there's been completely times through evolution in in humanity where you know there's been war, there's been abuse, there's been there's been so many epidemics in in the world that has took both polarities really out of balance. And I feel like we're that that byproduct now, and you know, now we've got this fast pace. Now women are being asked to work. So I actually think a lot of women, so I work with women, and you're saying how women are more embodied. I work with women and I used to be a blank of wood, like I wouldn't have been able to move and flow seven, eight years ago. Whereas now I feel really deeply in my body because of all the somatic work that I've done. But I can ask a group of women, right? We're going to do a somatic practice. I want us to get out the head, drop into the body and move. And they're so stiff, like really stiff.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

And I feel like they so do you not feel the world is pulling women out of the body as well, though, in terms of what we're asking women to do, like they're being asked to go out and starve in the world, which we're not saying, you know, is a bad thing in terms of what they're doing, but you know, there's maybe an element of women being disconnected from from maybe their own feminine essence to an extent, and they're out there in the world pushing, striving, forcing, controlling, setting businesses up, you know, more than like what you would, you know, say is a masculine power. And and and I do believe myself that is that creating some sort of issue within the relationship dynamics of what goes on with men and women. Um, I do believe that the system sort of set up, Joel, it is pulling us out of the body. If you like, it's putting us in the head. We're like, we're cognitively overloaded, aren't we, with with life? Yeah. Um that we can't take a breath sometimes, or it feels like we can't take a breath and we and we can't feel. And you know, people are walking around chronically stressed, dysregulated, overwhelmed, numbing out, if you like, dissociated. Um, you know, how do we sort of correct the sort of um, you know, for me, mates, I would say, you know, a breathing epidemic, a nervous system epidemic, a stress epidemic that's that's happening right now in the world, and even like relationship epidemic, it feels like a lot of systems are crumbling or a lot of things are going wrong for a lot of people right now, and it's it's hard out there in the world, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 42:47

I think there's a lot of confusion as to what people actually want as well. So I I work with women and I say, do you really want to be striving and have all of this success externally, which is actually taking you away from being in your body, it's taking you away from being a mum, it's taking you away, you know, from all of our naturalness as a woman. And when women deeply really think about it, the answer quite often what I find is no.

SPEAKER_04 43:14

And what percentage would you say?

SPEAKER_00 43:16

I would say definitely 75% of women actually are living a life that they don't choose. It's more that they feel like they have to. And I feel like there's maybe a smaller percentage that I know. You know, I actually don't want to be a traditional type of woman. I want to, I want to have a business, I wanna, I wanna go to the gym and I want to be able to do all of this. Um so again, I just think, again, without judgment, I just think it's really important for people to understand why they're doing what they're doing. Are they training because they love it? Are they working because, again, are they passionate about builds and something? Or are they coming from a fear of like not feeling enough without these things? Are they doing it because there's fear of lack and score? So that I have to make sure I'm okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

I think a lot of people have to do it though as well because of the cost of living and stuff like that, don't they? Like both parents or men and women are being forced to both work over 40, 50 hours a week in this day and age.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Something that I want that came up for me there was when you very first started that little that conversation outside, we were having a conversation, weren't we? And there was a there was a gentleman outside that mentioned something about like we haven't got time anymore to see people, to see family. And what was your response?

SPEAKER_02 44:29

I said the time is there, it's how you use it.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yeah. Yeah. Same with when you were saying about the breathwick men, say 10 minutes are sometimes too much, and it just made me think what you said before.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

The time is always there.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Again, I do I do like to almost drive home, I think is the word, my my background. I'm very in touch with everyday life and folk. I'm in the system myself. I'm not once removed from it, and I know it's really, really hard for a lot of people. So I'm not some academic who sits there talking about the power of the breath, and you know, you can claim your own life and you're the pilot and not the passenger. You know, yeah, but let's look at reality. I in relation to what you said there, so I gave you that traditional answer in relation to what science says about the female, yeah. Um, and you gave, like I said, you would do a much more educated uh opinion based on experiences of many people. I can't work out a few things in my mind in response to what you shared. So one is is there a certain type of role model or role models that women and would talk about livable because that's where we live and exist and know best? Is there are there a certain type of role models that women aspire to that they want to be in this city? Um, is it nothing to do with the city and more just females, UK society based? Um how many people would benefit from maybe not thinking so much about role models or what they would like to do, but what I call establishing that baseline, where how would they behave and lead their life in terms of relationships, in terms of lifestyle, etc., and all the things that come with that, if they were able to establish a baseline that was a healthy nervous system, that was healthy breathing, etc., and take it from there. Because from that base, the world feels and looks so different. So being able to manipulate your nervous system through the breath and the power that actually brings to you is quite mind-blowing, excuse the pun. It really, really is. How would you feel about life? What would you do in relation to work? I had an accountant in 2010, I'll never forget this, when I first wanted to start my breath work company. I didn't, but I started a few years later as a limited form. Uh at my best year in the work I was doing at the time, much of which I'm still involved in. He said to me, and I knew he wouldn't get it, he said to me, How have you had your best year in business so far? I said, I spent less time working. He went, What? I said, Yeah, I started going to the park and walking the park loads every day and started to breathe slower. And he looked to me like I had two heads. And I just explained basically from a parasympathetic nervous system point of view how that empowered me to see what I was doing. It was literally like I was getting mini holidays during my day, during my week, during my months, to give me huge focus to step out of side of Joel and look in on what I was doing as an observer to say that's not right. And it helped me with relationships, it helped me with so many things. It was the best thing I ever did. It's why I feel so strongly about this and why I talk like I do now and do what I do. So, how can you create mini holidays in your life to just maybe step back, look at what you're doing? So that's not about you want to do this, you want to do that, because it's a role model scenario. It's purely because you have clarity, you have equanimity, you have composure, you can see the world for what it is. You're coming from a calm space, we make some fantastic decisions when we're calm.

SPEAKER_03 48:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

And so would you create a life for me where you don't feel like you need to go on holiday to escape the life that you've got? Yeah, where you can take obviously we live in a stressful life, like stressful times, if you like, but if we can sort of master them pillars which we spoke about, um, you know, the name of this podcast should is Who Am I? The Who Am I podcast, understand who you are. Understand, I think, you know, a big part of what we've just been talking about with men and women is understanding what your purpose is. And you can only do that if you know who you're. And the more you do that, the more you're able to navigate your life. And I think, you know, with a lot of women, it's maybe put, you know, and certainly with men as well, to be honest. It's sort of um see what this says to le to realise one's destiny is a person's only obligation, which super powerful, mate. And I I couldn't agree more. I think like society in some way, which we spoke about before, Carly, it's like um I feel women can be can be shamed into into thinking that you know what what a privilege it is to raise your child, and it's sort of like there's this shame that is that all you're doing, or would you just look after the kids? Or would you cook your husband's teeth? Oh, do you not work? You haven't got a business, or you're not doing your own thing, and it can sort of be like a bit of a shame thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

So many times. So when I run, like, you know, whether it's a women's workshop or some sort of course, and we'll have that introduction, and people are sharing what they want, like what they actually do, and I I just I always have to correct them. I'm just a stay-at-home mum. And I just think, wow, you are just like the remove the just, you are incredibly lucky that you get to raise your child to be there. You have got the hardest job in the world, but that is how women have been made to feel that if you are just a just stay-at-home mum, you have failed to some capacity. Yeah, I just I say bullshit to that. Yeah, it's like it's a it's a it's a narrative that needs to to kind of like say dissolve, just explode that narrative and throw it away.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

Definition of success, isn't it? What is it? Is it having a Lamborghini? A big house? What is it? Or is it just having a baseline that allows you to have freedom and be a bit of a free spirit and make really, really good decisions?

SPEAKER_00 50:29

The programmes I do when I work in the schools, it's always the first question I ask them on week one. Do you want to be successful? Yeah, yeah, of course I do. And they laugh, and I'm like, okay. So you laugh at it. If we look at Liverpool, how many young men, young women are living unsuccessfully, unhappy, unhealthy? And they're like, a lot. And I'm like, okay. So if we're not becoming aware right now of how we're showing up, whether it's through breathing, whether it's through choices, whether it's through action, then we could very easily become one of those statistics of the unhappy, the unhealthy, you know, people who are unsuccessful, maybe saw some sort of addiction. So I always ask them that question instantly when I meet them, and it does it get them thinking a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

I look at sport quite a lot as a role model scenario, mostly to do with individuals who are calm or perceived as calm and why they often become the favourites of so many people. So, okay, they've not had a brilliant season, he's not had his best season, but Virgil van Dyke, cool, calm, collected. That's why he's so popular. So why can't you be like that? Why can't that be a role model for you to aspire to for yourself? Don't you know, don't um what's the word? Hold him in high esteem, not think about yourself as well. So and again, we talk about success, we talk about esteem. I mentioned esteem there. A lot of people confuse their life in terms of striving and forget about self-kindness. And what does striving actually mean? It means doing, it means comparing yourself to other people, trying to be better all the time, probably smashing your nervous system, as opposed to maybe self-kindness, thinking about you. What do you need to be the best version of yourself without thinking about other people? Do you really, really need to strive? Well, maybe, but what can you do as well that's in being mode? What about the power of being mode rather than do do do all the time? And when people hear that kind of message, they stop thinking about I need to breathe less, I need to do this breathing exercise. They just start to think again in that kind of common sense thing. You know, the tortoise still beats the hair. Can we be cool like Virgil van Dyke? Because how does that make us feel? It makes us feel nice, it makes us feel less triggered. You know, how many people get triggered when they feel really cool and relaxed? It's a lot harder to get triggered when you feel like that, isn't it? So, how can we become that person? You do it through the breath, and then you show people how. So it's really showing people an alternative way of living their life compared to the madness and the speed that they're living at at the moment. That's how I couch the breath, rather than talk too much about the mechanics of it, because that either loses people or makes them anxious, etc.

SPEAKER_04 53:35

Yeah, yeah. And I think you know, when we are talking about the breath as well, and and some of the modalities and the well-being modalities that are out there that are in this city, that are in the world that people are using. Um, you know, sometimes things can become a trend, a fad, like you know, we've got the cold water, the Wim Hof stuff. Um, sometimes like people searching for big massive release type breathing practices that don't necessarily create much change with your system, which we were speaking about before we came in. You might get a release of stress, but if your breathing isn't correct from day to day and the foundations of your own building isn't strong, then no matter how many conscious connected breath works you do, how many cold waters you do, how many wim-off breathe breath works you do, that ain't gonna change a lot for you. Like it might make little shifts, but essentially you're still gonna have the same foundations.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

The Wim Hof stuff, I find it fascinating. Excuse me, he's a brilliant Marcus here. Yeah. That's the first thing to say. And I mean that 100% from the heart. He absolutely is. He's got a message and he's got it out there. It's easily the most populist message that exists within breathwork. I like some aspects of it, but I think it's really important, I feel it's really important to say that there are so many of us who don't breathe correctly. There's so many of us who live a mad life, but life just goes too quick. We talked about it before we came in here today. But how can you breathe better but use an exercise that helps you to breathe better, breathe slower, breathe more functionally, so you can sleep better, you can have less indigestion, you can work better, you can be more relaxed, you can exercise better. What is that exercise? Which is why I'm not here to promote Constantine Buteiko who came up with the Buteiko method in the 1950s. I'm here just to say have a think. What is that one or two or three things, maybe, that you can latch on to that can just make you feel more chilled, less triggered? Because from that place, look at your life, you'll have more confidence, you'll see it in your face, you have a better glow, you'll have more love for your human beings. And it sounds even a little bit hippie, but it's nothing to do with that. It's purely about function. How can you just function better? And like I said earlier, this woman who said to me, I'm just fed up of feeling like this. You don't need to feel like this. There's some really simple solutions through the work that you do, through the work that I do, to help people feel like a different human being.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Yeah, like you said, there is so many that you've just mentioned, obviously, conscious connected, and you spoke a little bit about the Wim Hof there. There is so many different types of breath works out there, but every human is very different. Everyone's story and the history that they carry in their own body is very different. Again, we had a little conversation about it before, Joel. If you're someone that's quite anxious, you're hyperventilating, and then we're going in to do some Wimphoff, and we're going into more hyperventilation style breath work. Is that the right breath work for that person? Okay, so what I you know want people to really zone in on in this this this part of it is not everything is for everyone. And I think again, like the quote that you've just said, there understanding yourself and knowing where you're at is really important. And then this secondly now brings me on to the fact of facilitators that have done a weekend course on extremely powerful modalities. You can't learn if you know some of this in a weekend. And I'm sorry if it triggers anyone, but people need to be aware of it because again, where our nervous system is at is very important that we choose the right next step so that we're not pushing people into more of a you know, a hyper, hyper-evaled state. So, yeah, I just think there's so many modalities out there knowing when your own your own bodies at your own nervous systems that are so important. So sometimes we can remove all of these big, big, shiny, fancy things and take it really back to basics. Are you functionally breathing? Yeah. Where are you breathing from? Your belly, your chest, nose, mouth. And I think again, that is just the perfect starting point for us. So some people will jump straight into Wim Half or they'll come into a conscious breathe, but like you've just said, they'll go home. And if they don't understand their own mechanics, they're gonna still be causing, you know, some sort of inner stress response within themselves.

SPEAKER_04 58:17

It's like the um the psychedelic bandwagon sometimes as well. I say it's like um, you know, I know people who've done like 60 ayahuasca, they're still not breathing, right? But then they go and do another ayahuasca to heal more. But it's like you've got to look at the foundational stuff, and a lot of people want to get to, you know, you use the alphabet, for example, they want to get to Z before they've just done ABC and just some simple breathing.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

Patience, patience, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

I mean, I could learn that as well sometimes, as you know.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

Um there's some role model stuff in there, isn't there? As in Vim Hoff stuff's very McKismo, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 58:51

Yeah, and it gives and it gives you an experience. So I think because people feel an internal experience of doing three rounds, for example, that makes them feel different and that something's changing and something's happening. But you know, and maybe it is on on a on on some level, but then you know, if you look at the nuts and crannies of the breath, what's going on when you're not doing that breathing, and what's going on maybe in an hour or two after them side effects have settled, you you're then back to what you where you were at before it.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

But it takes us into the kinds of current problem I feel like society is in quick fix. Yeah, yeah, phone, instant dopamine, yeah, Netflix, just you know, switch off and again, we're constantly looking for that quick fix that people are just missing, they're just they're just missing some of that, you know, this simp simplicity of life, simplicity of humanity.

SPEAKER_02 59:43

You can you know, you can do an MMA contest and uh smash the magnesium and vitamin C for tissue repair, coQ10. But actually, if you push loads of oxygen, CO2, and nitric oxide into your system, how does that make you feel and muscles feel in the in the DOMS section a few days later? Yeah, it doesn't get talked about that much because again, it's that tablet thing, isn't it? Um, it will become more talked about soon. There'll be more role models or realize or get on it. And I think one of the issues that Buteco has a particular method, I know about 10 different breathing methods. The Buteiko method relative to Wimpoff is is perceived as quite boring. But it's nothing to do with the buzz. This isn't about buzz, this is to do with medicine, this is to do with your health, this is to do with your life, the decisions you make, the quality of your sleep, etc. So forget about the showbiz side of it, forget about the extravagance, the show off thing, the McKismo side of it. Think about you, what it can do for you as a person. So it's quite a humble, humbling scenario that you can do for yourself. No one needs to know you do it. If you filmed uh a bouteco session, it wouldn't make a television director or producer particularly excited, but that's not what it's about, it's about the effects of it, and they're huge and life-changing.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:02

Yeah, yeah, and I think like for me, I probably got my fingers burnt a little bit last year, uh, or the past couple of years, really, Carl, because I've done a lot of like yoga, haven't I? And done a lot of studying with yoga, and I've done 500 hours kundalini yoga training, and you know, part of the reason probably that draw me to it, it's like, oh, it's the most dangerous form of yoga, do you say? Um, which really you know perks something up for me to be interested in okay, what I wonder what that is. So after going over and training in it and then coming back home, I don't practice it. And I I will teach a class on it, but I would never advise anybody to do it. And I don't believe there's many teachers, really, unless you're a guru, that is capable of holding a kundalini awakening or a kundalini experience. And if people don't know what that is, Google it. It's absolutely bizarre. Um, I felt it as a real living thing in my own system when things have come up, but it also was pushing me into being in bed, it was activating my system too much, I couldn't get out of bed. Like my mind was fuzzy, it was bringing a lot of emotion out of my system, a lot of pain was coming out, um, and I was unable to ground it. And I felt at the time, I spoke to the teacher and I just said it's too much to do in this part of the world to do something like that, even though I was probably looking for this experience, um, and and and and obviously everything that I do learn, I want to try and help other people with as well. But I'll never teach something that I don't feel has ever worked for me. So after doing that and going through that whole experience, the best breathing practice I could give you from it is maybe alternate nostril breathing. Nice and slow.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:33

Yeah, the power of gentle is so underestimated. It's not particularly sexy, is it? Doesn't sound really enticing. You know, if if somebody wrote a book about or there was a film, The Power of Gentle, would it really grab people? I don't know. Maybe times are slowly changing, though. Maybe there's more people looking for a bit of a gentler, softer way. You know, you can be strong in mind, in character, but you can be gentle as well. And it feels like we pigeonhole character far too much. I have to relate to two things you both said. One to do with regulation, I'm massive on that. Um, and two to do with different modalities like Vim Hof. So my actual take on all the different methods is you know what? If you get what you want from it, fantastic. Yeah. I have no opinion, particular opinion on any of the modalities. You get to where you need to be in your health, and it affects your health in a really positive way, do it. Go do it. Yeah, 100%. The thing about regulation for me, it's and I see this increasingly, and I'm I'm I'm really so in favour of it. People speaking out about people who are not regulated, of course. We've got to protect what we're passionate about so that people don't have a misunderstanding of the power of it. But I also think it's about character, because I think there's a lot of people who unfortunately have shown to be how can we say less than honourable, honest to themselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

Like people, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

Yeah, who take advantage. Yeah. And so I would ask everybody to check on someone's character as well as the fact that they need to be regulated, certified, accredited.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

Yeah. Would you say to both of you as well? Do you feel like social media is having, you know, a positive, obviously, in a way that people are seeing things more aware of it, but they're seeing these like kinds of, like we said, the big releases, the big experiences, and it's maybe just taking them out of like simplicity and like I want that, I want that, because they're seeing all of this thing. Do you think social media is maybe having that negative effect? And also, do you think it's appropriate to maybe share all of like the power of the breath in in such an intimate experience?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:50

I think for me, I feel like obviously the likes because we've been talking about maybe Wim Off. I think like Wim Off's been incredible in opening the door for spirituality and for personal growth and for self-development. He's probably been the number one catalyst in in this country, maybe or in this city for that type of stuff. Um, but equally, I do think within the social media maybe sector, um, you know, big experiences, if you like, is you know, was marketed, isn't it? It's marketable when you see someone having a big experience. People might think, oh my god, that looks amazing. I want to go and try it. You know, this big release happens, I need to let go of my pain. And to an extent, you know, the marketing side of it can prey on people's vulnerabilities and prey on people's pain points and pain and prey on people's desires. That's what marketing's designed to do, to prey on pain and desire of what people are maybe missing in their life. So I do think that's maybe happening. Um, but on the other side of it, from an integrity point of view, um I'm not somebody who personally likes to see big releases happening. I think it's quite intimate. The moments that are shared, maybe you know, it is down to the people to agree that before the video is is maybe shared, but you know, for me it's it's an intimate moment. It doesn't maybe need to be shown in that context, and it maybe is being used in the wrong way as a sales sort of um you know marketing tool, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:09

One of the problems with media beyond social media, just looking at traditional media, how TV has worked, and going back, and it's not really any different now. So if you look at chefs, if you look at um entrepreneurs, how do they get portrayed? What do TV directors believe is the stuff of really good TV? It's Gordon Ramsay, if you're a chef. It's not a really cool, laid back, thoughtful, emotionally intelligent chef, is it? Name me one that's on TV. Not many of them. If it's to do with being an entrepreneur, it's Alan Sugar. It's the apprentice. Even boxes. You can take it in so many different areas. What so many people in TV, given the power of TV, think that is a really good example, stroke role model. What's a good news angle? As opposed to somebody who's far more considered. Oh, is that interesting? If someone's a gentleman or a gentlewoman, how does that come across in terms of a really good story that people can get into, they can aspire to? So why is there so much one-dimensional driven direction in media, still in TV, to do with certain careers, personality, characters, etc.? I don't understand where it comes from. So hopefully I'd love to see it become a thing where there's far more different types of role models in all sorts of careers. If we're talking about careers, how to be in relationships, etc. Because us humans, I think we need a lot of guidance going forward. Like Carly, what you were saying before, both of you really just it's all a bit of a mess, a bit of a blur. What should a woman be like? What should a man be like? What should a relationship be like?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

What should people aspire to?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

I find as well when I so I've said this probably to you before. I I work in schools with lads and girls, so I'll have like lads separately. And a lot of the time, lads will give me a role model, and a lot of the times the girls struggle with it, and I can resonate with that because I wouldn't have said I had a role model as such myself. And I feel like a lot of the role models that maybe are available to young girls are like these influencers and social media content. Um, I don't even know what the right word is, but again, it's all about like the the glamour. Um, or maybe if you if they're more sporty, it's like more like these like fitness kinds of like influencers. And yeah, I do feel like it just adds more to the confusion of what it is to be a woman, like what's the right path for us to go down. Whereas with young lads, quite often that they'll say it's a footballer, a boxer, some sort of fighter. And obviously, by that, like I'm not saying all footballers are living like in the right way, and you know, some of the arrogance that comes with a lot of them, but there are some actually like um Harland who does a lot of like the meditation and the breath work. So I feel like there is a lot of really positive role models out there. I feel like girls are lost on on the role model scenario.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:12

Yeah, and I I agree I agree with what you're saying, but if we had to challenge not challenge it, but have my have a viewpoint on it would be like a lot of men, I think, are struggling right now with identity because of maybe what's going on in the world within relationships, and men are struggling with what their mission is, what their purpose is, what their place is. We're not needed in the same way that we used to be needed, we're not needed to protect, to provide, to serve in the same way that we used to. We're now stuck behind fucking desks. I think it's phones, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

I think it's quite blurred though, as in there are plenty of women I know. Okay, I'm a bit older than you guys, who want a man who are single. 40% of all households right now are single. Can you believe that? How mad is that? That's the that's the latest stats who want a man to help provide for them. There's still plenty of that. There's the new stuff, it's just kind of all over the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

I know, because it is, it's hard to that. And I think we've probably kind of had this situation so women are like, I want a man and I want a man to provide, but again, I always put it back to the women. Are you allowing that to happen? Or are you quite masculine yourself? Are you kind of like domineering of like eyes up needs anyone? I'm okay. You know, this tough posterior that they've had to develop to get through life.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:25

So it's it's it's a deep con, it's probably a bit late in the podcast because this is a deep conversation where we could talk about like, you know, the fact that why women like maybe like that, and men abuse the powers of men are, you know, if if a woman's becoming reliant on a man, is that safe to their own to her own nervous system within that relational dynamic? It's probably not a safe environment to be in when somebody's has got financial control of you as well at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

And without going deep into it all, like to bring it back very quickly without going really deeply into this. If we were all able to just manage our breath, that is instantly gonna just bring some sort of balance to help us navigate our way through the dilemma, the dynamics, what you know, whatever part of it. So again, let's bring it back to the breath, otherwise we're gonna get lost in a whole nother podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

So I was gonna say to you, that's probably part two, that bit, but um for me, we're talking about relationships here, and sometimes people use terms like if they're falling out with someone in a relationship, just want to get away from them. Unfortunately, often there are so many people who can't get away from themselves. So, how can we stop that feeling of wanting to get away from ourselves? And that's what being grounded is because that's what we're talking about here with in relation to the breath, the nervous system, etc., somatics. How can you establish that baseline position where you only feel love and self-kindness for yourself, and you have that equilibrium, that equal state where you establish a life for yourself where you go, okay, now I'm ready. You know, when people say I'm ready to take on a relationship now, or I'm ready to move house, or I'm ready to get a new job. That's basically what they've done. They've established a baseline, may not have realized it took loads of time out to breathe well and sleep well and go on holiday, look at it in the way that we look at it, but that's really what they've done.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

So for me, that is number one for every single human being, and it's not about their relationship with anyone else, it's about themselves first, and it's not self-indulgence, self-kindness is not selfish, it's absolutely essential because you become a better person for yourself and the recipient of you when you get in a relationship, whether it's work, play, romance, you name it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:48

Yeah, your closest circle of intimacy is you. Yeah, I say so. You need to be connected to yourself, contact to you, and yeah, you know, I think growing your own capacity and learning to be able to self-regulate so you can feel safe in yourself is the most important thing. And then from that place, when we act from that place, behave from that place, and speak from that place, that's where life can begin to open up for us, can't it, mate?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:13

100%, and that's all to do with not seeking happiness in others, and it's not it's never selfish, it's selfful.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:19

I think just slightly rephrased now, it's selfful, isn't it? Because I think you're no good to anyone else if you're on empty. So always fill fill your own self up, your own, your own couple, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:30

So we're coming to the end, mate, and it's gone so quick. Um is it Saturday, probably the word isn't it? Loved it. So if you can just share, mate, with everybody before we go on how to find you, how to work with you, and how you can help people. Um just one takeaway that you could give everyone, mate, before you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:52

Oh, whoa. Okay. So the easy bit, you can find me on social media on Insta under Sniffsy Yorn. I don't use it much. I'm more into Facebook because it works. I like LinkedIn. You can find me on social media under Sniffsy Yorn. Um, I work with people on a one-to-one basis, love that. I work with companies, usually created by an opportunity by somebody who runs the company who's a massive fan of what I do, and they get it. I work with community organizations because I love that down-to-earth aspect in the way I share what I do. And this is for everybody, this is not elitist. Well-being, wellness can be a little bit elitist in places. That's not about that for me. This is really down-to-earth core stuff for every human being. And one takeaway I think it's to just understand that really the power of the breath. So of all the things you can do for yourself, and I've met enough people to know this. They sleep okay, they take all the supplements, they go to the gym, they've got a great job, got a lovely car, got a nice house, go on holiday. But they're not ill, but they're not well. And they know it, and they've done the work, and they find that in the end the missing piece in the jigsaw is how they breathe. And when they learn to breathe better functionally, anything between six and eight breaths a minute, for example, it literally changes them as human beings. It can change their definition of success, it can change their outlook on being a more humble individual, it can change their outlook on the way they run their business, how they lead their life, how they are, most importantly to themselves. So, in so many scenarios, it's often the missing link. But if you don't have all the other links, forget the other links, they don't matter. The most important thing is you and being at one with your breath and being able to breathe calmly. And just watch what happens when you do that. Don't think about the symptoms you've got, just focus on the breath and then see what happens and see how your life unravels from there once you become more functional at it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:07

Powerful, mate. Powerful. Thank you. Thank you. Charlie, any final words?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:12

No, I just I really love talking about this stuff and and hopefully opening more people's eyes to it because, like I say, it doesn't need to be the mass the big thing, the big, you know, shiny kind of massive thing. It it is it's that simple and it's it's always that simple that we miss it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:31

That goes back to the simple life, doesn't it? Yeah. The simple life is the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:36

Starting with the breath.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:38

Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you so much for your time. I've really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:42

Thank you for coming on. The godfather of the breath and living. Thank you.