DECONSTRUCTING HUGH HEFNER: SECRETS + SCANDALS + LEGACY

What's the true story behind Hugh Hefner's retreat to the Playboy Mansion? How did the murder of star playmate Dorothy Stratten impact his life and business empire? We explore these questions and more as we unpack the narrative presented in the podcast "Power, the Hugh Hefner Story" and the A&E DocuSeries. Join us for a fascinating look into what was really going on behind the scenes, and learn why journalistic due diligence is crucial when telling the stories of public figures like Hefner.

We also discuss the misconceptions and judgments surrounding Hefner's unusual lifestyle and the rules he set for guests at the Playboy Mansion. Listen in as we analyze how Hefner lived his life the way he wanted to, despite public opinion, and investigate the hypermoralistic attitudes people have had towards him. Plus, we'll ponder why society tends to look for the most obvious answer to explain tragic outcomes.

Finally, we delve into Hefner's open attitude toward sexuality, his legacy, and his inability to defend himself since his passing. We'll also examine the Bobby Arnstein incident, the evolving feminist movement, and how Christie Hefner's arrival to Playboy ultimately led to the closure of the Playboy clubs in 1986. Don't miss this engaging conversation offering a fresh perspective on the life and legacy of Hugh Hefner.

A HUGE THANK YOU TO JOHN CHAMPION + RODDENBERRY STUDIOS
podcasts.roddenberry.com /  thebunnychronicles.com

WITH LOVE & GRATITUDE - Corinna & Echo

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:29

Good guys, welcome back to the show. We are back in the studio with John Champion at Broad and Barry Studios and we're doing some reaction commentary to the podcast called Power, the Hugh Hapner Story. It's very similar, again, to the type of narrative that the A&E DocuSeries is doing, so we are going to discuss it and let's get into it.

Speaker 2: 1:00

You kind of wonder. Like as soon as the A&E thing starts and there's a lot of publicity because I heard people talking about it, you know, middle of last year this thing is coming. It's all exciting, You know then did somebody you know, were they just ready to go with a podcast like, ooh, now's our time to get this thing out, Yeah, and actually this podcast came out in January, so it came out before A&E.

Speaker 1: 1:24

But obviously, yeah, she was aware. So I'm going to go ahead and read the show notes so we can get an idea of what we're going to be talking about And anybody watching live. I can't answer questions or anything. So hi to everybody. Okay, so when the party's over Hapner retreats into his fake perfect life in the Playboy Mansion, i cannot stand how she said that fake perfect life.

Speaker 2: 1:48

There's a lot to unpack over there.

Speaker 1: 1:51

Hoping to escape problems in his business empire and the fallout from the murder of star playmate Dorothy Strudden, which was one of the most devastating moments in Playboy's history, he calls on his daughter, kristi Hapner, to turn things around. All right, let's get into it.

Speaker 2: 2:07

Yeah, should we just start unpacking that first line.

Speaker 1: 2:09

Yeah, please, so yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:12

Well, all right, before we actually do that. I mean, this is another place where I feel like Like disclaimer please. I'm going to first follow some historical context, but also the disclaimer. There are some things. I don't claim to speak for anyone who was there at the time.

Speaker 2: 2:26

And again, i don't want to negate somebody's personal experience, because who knows, particularly in that last one about Bobby Arnstein and the person who was telling his particular lived experiences story Can't take away from that. We're going to try to present some other ways to think about these stories.

Speaker 1: 2:50

I think that's a way to approach it Right And with that said and I have shared this with you already that Karina and I were in total agreement that when doing these reaction pieces, in light of anything coming out, that by no means are we attacking anybody that is in the show. What we have a problem with is the group of female producers behind it, and that's what we're talking to.

Speaker 2: 3:20

And we're addressing that to.

Speaker 1: 3:21

Alexandra Dean and Amy Rose Beagle, who is the one that did this podcast.

Speaker 2: 3:25

So There's a lack of counter narrative? Yes, and it's unfortunate because so many people who could provide that counter narrative are out there. They're ready to be spoken to.

Speaker 1: 3:38

Actually, we were just talking about Allison. So, Alexandra Dean spent 48 hours at her house interviewing her and Joel And Allison shared everything with them all of the archives of her photographs and her decades long very, very, very close personal relationship with Hefner, and they put one minute of her in the entire season. Wow, what does that say? Wow, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 4:10

Incredible, yeah, bizarre, yeah. That's the most frustrating part about all of this. It is again look, do your journalistic due diligence. If there are salacious stories to be dug up, okay, so be it, but you absolutely need to do the work of finding the other people who were there Again. Literally, this is not ancient history. No, we're talking about people who are alive.

Speaker 1: 4:33

It's all out. there too, We were there.

Speaker 2: 4:35

Right, yeah, i don't know, this didn't happen. I did not see that happen.

Speaker 1: 4:41

And they're not interested in that narrative, and it's very clear, yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:45

That's extremely frustrating. So that's what we'll try to do is have at least a little bit of a counter story to what's going on here. And yeah, historically this is looking at a pretty wide period. So you're talking about 1980, which is when Dorothy Stratton was killed, Right?

Speaker 1: 5:04

And when Kristie Hefner stepped in as CEO, I think it's 1981.

Speaker 2: 5:08

Was it that early? Because I know that she was an intern late 70s and I thought it was 1986. Oh then maybe she was still interning then, yeah, okay, she became president and then CEO later, yeah, so around that time So we're talking about kind of a swath of time here from the late 70s to the mid to late 80s, and I think you and I have the same reaction. I have no retreats into his fake perfect life. Perfect life, That's a very, very much Okay.

Speaker 1: 5:39

That sounds like a lot of contempt, like she's jealous that she never went to the mansion or something, because it's not fake and it was a perfect life.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Choice of words.

Speaker 1: 5:48

Choice of words. No kidding.

Speaker 2: 5:51

What life is fake. I don't know, you live your life and I think we all try to kind of carve out the existence that we want.

Speaker 1: 5:59

Right.

Speaker 2: 6:01

You know, so we shape our lives around what we want. Marker happened to have a lot of resources to do that, yeah, and actually lived it.

Speaker 1: 6:09

And up, and rightfully so. Who wouldn't live like that?

Speaker 2: 6:12

Yeah, the ability to do so.

Speaker 2: 6:15

Yeah, exactly, and well, you know, perfect is kind of a loaded term, because nobody's life is perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect life. We certainly mean gosh. Today, in social media land, we present everything, and we've got to be honest with you. We've got to be honest with you. But the thing about Heth, though, is that, being a public figure, his life, for the ups and downs were on full public display. So, whether it was, you know, relationship issues or business issues or something horrendously tragic, we talked about Bobby Arnstein suicide. Now we're talking about a murder for somebody who was very well liked and very well cared for. You know again, this is before my time there, but there are many people that I knew at the magazine and who I dealt with on a regular basis at the magazine, who knew Dorothy and really cared about her.

Speaker 2: 7:10

Absolutely And 20 years later, you know, 15 years later, whatever we're still so disturbed and upset and heartfelt, i mean yeah, it was.

Speaker 1: 7:23

It was absolutely one of the most tragic episodes that that you know have ever occurred in anybody's lifetime. That was a part of that and surrounded by that, and then you know that movie star 80 and that really put into context, you know that was the reality of what happened to her And and Heff knew from the second that he met Dorothy and her husband, he knew right away that her husband was bad news. Yeah, and he did, and he made sure that she had extra protection when she was going on promotions, when she was traveling, doing anything, because he was fearful that he was going to do something to her.

Speaker 2: 8:06

Yeah, if you want to have a really interesting read, if you go online and look at the newspaper articles from the time and there was some investigative pieces done at the time, very shortly after her murder, and I want to say like Village Voice or something like that.

Speaker 2: 8:22

Yeah, definitely Very extensive piece about that really paint the picture of who she was, who Paul Schneider was, the toxicity of their relationship. And you know, for better or for worse, you know you've probably been in a relationship before where some outside voice said like, oh, you shouldn't be there or you shouldn't do this.

Speaker 2: 8:43

And it's really easy to reject that you know, And you can imagine that that creates tension or exacerbates the tension, no matter what. There are a lot of people that playboy who cared very deeply about Dorothy and saw that kind of vulnerability and saw the toxicity of that relationship. Like you just said, they went to the extent of on promotional tours and elsewhere, trying to separate that tension as much as they could. And sometimes you just can't because you're getting in the middle of two people who have their own relationship, have their own history.

Speaker 1: 9:21

And that's actually an interesting topic because you know any playmate that came in and you were approved to be a playmate, most of the time they had a boyfriend at the time, or husband or whatever, and I would say 99% of the time the husbands and the partners were not into it and it would be the ultimate demise of your relationship. You know, that's understandable. That happens, unfortunately. Dorothy Stratton's what was her husband's name?

Speaker 2: 9:52

Paul Schneider. She was called by the name of Paul Schneider took it to the extent it was.

Speaker 1: 10:01

it was So heartbreaking to have, it was so heartbreaking to the entire playboy family and, when that occurred, have made a rule that he didn't want boyfriends and yeah, and partners coming up to the mansion because That happened right, which is going to be its own problem as well.

Speaker 1: 10:24

Yeah, and you know but I guess but, but. But. With that said, i will back it up with. It wasn't a hard no to everybody. But if it's like if he knew that you were engaged and you know you had like a functioning relationship, yeah, by all means bring your husband. But if you're just having to be dating some dude, he's he was not gonna, let you just come up to the mansion. You know, yeah, and that's correct. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 10:48

Yeah, you can decide right and that's the other thing. It's like you can. You could pick out all kinds of personality, quirks, strange behaviors, whatever. And say well, i wouldn't necessarily live my life like that or I wouldn't have these particular sets of rules at my house. Whatever, you're also probably not, you know, a gazillionaire public figure exactly that was.

Speaker 1: 11:12

They can't compare, and that's what people don't seem to understand is that like? have had a very unique lifestyle and under a microscope and under a microscope, and so how he lived his life, and and and and the protection around it, and, you know, whatever he deemed was the way, whatever he deemed necessary, that was the most effective way for him to live his life How he wanted to. He did so and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, it was the American dream, like you said.

Speaker 2: 11:44

Yeah, i mean, he got to live his life the way that he wanted to, and and here's What strange it's like from the outside you could look at that and go oh hey, these are weird rules or weird behaviors, whatever. Okay, fine.

Speaker 1: 11:57

Absolutely, they might be. yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:58

I think what's strange is taking it a step further and to have this sort of hypermoralistic Yeah attitude toward it and and that's coming back to our opening sentence here It's like the level, the level of judgment right away, to sort of that automatically.

Speaker 1: 12:16

Yeah, it was your hand.

Speaker 2: 12:17

Yeah, exactly, that's exactly what I thought, yeah, he could have a peculiar life, he could have a very extraordinary life, very atypical, like by all of these things. Why that's fine. But to then take that and say I don't know, but but all that is wrong because it was weird, because it was right out of step.

Speaker 1: 12:39

And then what they do is then they say, oh, all of these, not all these playboys, but there are a handful of playmates that committed suicide, and then Dorothy Stratton was murdered, and They then blame it on playboy and Hugh Hefner and that is wrong and that has nothing to do with playboy.

Speaker 2: 13:02

I know that the late Peter Bogdanovic, she just passed away not that long ago, You know yeah. He had a relationship with Dorothy.

Speaker 1: 13:12

He also was devastated by the whole thing Yeah, he ended up marrying her sister, yeah, her younger sister and he held this against Hef right or the entirety of the remainder of their lives. Right, and that was another heartbreak for him.

Speaker 2: 13:26

Yeah, yeah. and I think what's so Strange about all of that is that, yeah, we always want to look for a single source of the blame. Yeah we always want to look for a light. Oh well, if this hadn't caused that, then then that's what would have been. It's like looking at the Titanic right. They had the binoculars, they wouldn't have hit the ice.

Speaker 2: 13:49

Well, you don't know It's a series of Yeah, yeah and Again, you can point to playboy, you could point to the mansion, you could point to happy. You say this is very out of the ordinary. But what is a lot harder to do is say, okay, we're gonna draw a straight line that says the line of blame for this particular bad act goes here exactly. I think that's very inappropriate.

Speaker 2: 14:14

It's highly it's it's it's, yes, inappropriate, it's dangerous, sure, and it's it's immoral, in my opinion if you were to look at Any industry, any group of people that is big enough, you find the same Tragedies and heartbreak. You just mentioned, there are plain-naked who have committed suicide. You and I probably both went to high school with people who also committed suicide.

Speaker 2: 14:40

From whatever walk of life. Might have been wealthy, might have been poor, might have walked into yeah you know a great job or not. But whatever those tragic, horrible things happen, and When something is sensational and out of the ordinary for usual experience, like playboy, that then becomes the target, just like we talked about with Bobby Arnstein and the whole drug debacle. You know it's. I Wonder what it is that we tend to just look for the most obvious sort of low-hanging fruit answer That well, if we just got rid of this, if we just got rid of playboy or just got rid of that Hugh Hefner's Unsavory lifestyle, then that would solve these problems and that would.

Speaker 2: 15:32

That would answer why these people yeah died, or why this person was on drugs or whatever, and it's not the case.

Speaker 1: 15:40

Well, why do you think that occurs? I mean, do you think that's just human nature, or do you think it's a breakdown in our society?

Speaker 2: 15:48

lack of knowledge, psychology cast. It's like no, like, honestly like green even said she goes.

Speaker 1: 15:56

You know, we have to talk about, like you know, perhaps these women are mentally ill, meaning the producers who are doing this, and then the women who committed suicide. They, there's mental issues there, obviously, mental health issues there, yeah, you know, and it's like that should be the context of the conversation, not, oh, because it was playboy. Then they, you know.

Speaker 2: 16:19

I mean, how many people who Work on Wall Street have committed suicide?

Speaker 1: 16:25

So many Yeah, so again.

Speaker 2: 16:27

I think it's wrong to point to an industry or a lifestyle or something and says like, oh, no, no, that that's, that's the problem. Yeah, is what they're doing. Well, no, mental illness runs deep right And it's very widespread right and there might be certain conditions that could quell or exacerbate that either way, but That one thing you want to point to isn't the cause, it isn't the the root reason right?

Speaker 1: 16:56

Yeah, it's not the root reason.

Speaker 2: 16:58

I think that playboy has From the beginning. It has always suffered from this misunderstanding.

Speaker 1: 17:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:07

Primarily from people who were on the outside. Yeah, have not read it, have not bothered to look into the people who were there, have not bothered to really kind of do the homework and. I I don't want to come on your show and paint this rosy picture and say that Everybody did everything right, because I don't think that's the case.

Speaker 2: 17:26

No, of course It's not but I do think that Playboy, just by being a very big target, it's easy to attract a lot of that Negative commentary, it's easy to attract a lot of that criticism, you know, and then, unfortunately, the good stuff does get overshadowed, mm-hmm, because all the good stuff it gets tempered with, you know. Oh well, they were just doing that to hide all this negative stuff. Well, no, you know, there could be heartfelt good reasons, yeah, for doing what they did, whether it's the philanthropic work, right, or some of the really intensely important editorial work that right there right and And and I don't want to downplay the side of it that was about sexual liberation.

Speaker 2: 18:14

Yeah exactly right, because I Think that's still here. We are in the 21st century And it's still the sensationalistic right, if that, that's the part of it that gets all the attention.

Speaker 1: 18:29

Yep, that's sensationalizing.

Speaker 2: 18:31

Yeah, it's like oh, if they just weren't living this libidinous lifestyle, then these terrible things wouldn't yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:38

It was just so tragic to be attached to playboy because your life was gonna ruin by it and it's just It's. It's not the case, it's just.

Speaker 2: 18:46

I would have thought that we would be beyond that by now, exactly, i mean exactly and that's the perfect point.

Speaker 1: 18:52

It's just like again, it's like you know at what point Are people going to take it upon themselves to? I mean, just educate yourself or be interested in learning About whatever it is before you, you know, construct this Personal opinion or perspective without knowing anything about it? Yeah, you, just you, you're, you're, you know, you're, you're speaking, not speaking, your, your Just went brain dead.

Speaker 2: 19:29

Anyway, yeah, but you know, half was the person, above all else, who said my life is a Rorschach test and You show his life to one person. They have one reaction. You show it to a hundred other people and they're gonna have a different reaction. Yeah, yeah and part of it was this advocacy, for, you know, an embrace and an interest and curiosity about the scope of human sexuality, uh-huh, which simply came from a generation that did not right, express and discusses things right.

Speaker 2: 20:07

Up to, i you know, just the sheer fact that he was a man who had these very unconventional relationships.

Speaker 1: 20:17

So what? so what, who cares? he could do it. Yeah, and I have no problem with it.

Speaker 2: 20:22

Yeah, you know the fact is that he did, and, and yeah and he had no, and he had no shame in it.

Speaker 1: 20:30

Yeah, it was because he was an open person in every sense of the way and, you know, i think it's a okay to Sexually explore I think it's important.

Speaker 2: 20:41

Yeah, yeah, so it is. You've said it a million times before, but the biggest problem out of all of this is that everything is being said after He could defend himself post humus and that's bad. Yeah, and there are so many examples, like the Bobby Arnstein incident, like so many others, where half would be the first in line to say like no, no, here is the statement, here is here's we're gonna talk about, and and I appreciate that He appreciated that he got it wrong sometimes of course.

Speaker 2: 21:16

So there is. I Can't remember if it was in the Amazon series or it might have been in the Toshin books that he collaborated on and and he said of his Appearance on the dick cabbage show when he was, he was really being taken to task, i Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:33

I actually just watched that on YouTube last week and it was. I was like whoa, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:39

Yeah, and look you know I think have for any editors at the magazine at the time would say We need to have this discussion about Feminism and playboys perception or role in that. That is a conversation we need to have head-on. Things check the feminist movement change many times between the early 60s, late 60s and into the 70s. When that dick habit clip played, but half was the one who said like I went on that show and I didn't have the words To be able to have that conversation.

Speaker 2: 22:16

So he knew he knew that he was not equipped to do that. Give it time, let's take, you know, a little bit of a separation of distance and see if we can come back and have that conversation Correct.

Speaker 1: 22:27

But now he's gone right and he can't right and that's but thank God there's all the documentation again out there in the archives.

Speaker 2: 22:37

Everything that we're talking about can be found, people and and it will be out of the mouth of half, yeah, yeah, you know an interesting thing about the show notes in that episode, that of the power podcast, is that You know, all right, we already made light of their. But they talk about Christie Hefner coming into the company and and I, if I have it right, i think it was the late mid to late 70s that she came on as an intern, then came back as president Right later. And that was right around that time where, yeah, the business landscape was changing quite a bit and I Mentioned before in an episode with you, you know, the niece commission under the Reagan administration that was also putting the clamp down on Being able to find the magazine like Playboy on a local newsstand, you know. So the whole landscape was changing quite a bit. The clubs were gonna be gone by 86. Yeah, because they were, i mean it was.

Speaker 1: 23:42

They were bleeding money And, and, and. That was a really great transition. I mean, that was a really wonderful thing that not only was Christie very interested in following and her father's footsteps and, and, and stepped into that role and did a really great job for like the couple decades.

Speaker 1: 24:01

Oh, yeah, yeah so you know, she, she was definitely the right person to take it on at that time, and it was time for have to pull back from the day-to-day operations and focus solely on the magazine, and that's what he did. He then, you know, at the mansion, from front cover to back cover, right down to the font placement, everything, people, yeah, half Was that. I mean he he looked at every single little aspect and approved it, yes or no, and that it was at that time that he then got to focus on the magazine and Chrissy stepped in and ran the company.

Speaker 2: 24:35

You can kind of look back at some of those important moments in the business history of Playboy, whether it was the, the closing of the London Club originally because they went that there was a whole Yeah, second season good, good good, and then the Atlantic City casino, and that that was a whole other thing, and all these were Devastating in a business sense. Yeah to the the whole playboy.

Speaker 1: 25:01

They had to restructure like any corporate entity.

Speaker 2: 25:03

Yeah, yeah, and then. Then you need somebody strong and thoughtful like Chrissy to comment and say, okay, it's time to clean house.

Speaker 1: 25:11

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 25:12

There's always the wood it could have should, based on those old decisions and those old incidents. Who? what if they had survived this particular incident?

Speaker 1: 25:21

No, I think. I think it. Mannequin said how it should. You know, and I have so much respect for Chrissy.

Speaker 1: 25:26

She's an incredible human being and you know I had yeah right and and I was fortunate enough to have some really Intimate one-on-ones with her. you know, i threw letters and I I I suggested us setting up a scholarship fund for playmates that want to go to college, and she set it up and She loved the idea. and then the whole dot-com thing again, that was something that that we had Went back and forth on and I I Really really enjoyed those brief moments of being able to speak to her Sure and and to and to get her feedback and then for her to approve something like that. You know, she was remarkable, very cool Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:09

Yeah, i mean that's the thing about, i think, everybody who you encountered In your dealings with a magazine or anybody after that, now that you're doing the podcast, and my experience too I never met anybody who didn't really care about the job that they were doing.

Speaker 1: 26:25

Yeah, that's very true. Like you were there and you loved it, and that's why people stayed for 30, 40, 55 years.

Speaker 2: 26:33

Right, they all felt the importance. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:38

And we were all valuable. Each and every single one of Playboy employees and staff were valuable and have made sure that. You knew that And that's a special thing. And we are a very, very small group of people that had that opportunity to go on this journey with Playboy, you know, and so grateful.

Speaker 2: 27:02

I keep hoping that this current wave will pass.

Speaker 1: 27:07

Me too. Me too, this is our plan. People Like Karina and I are here to cancel the cancel culture movement. It's time to go.

Speaker 2: 27:17

Right. Well, and you know I never want to be too precious about the past, i never want to be too precious about our memories. Things deserve examination, absolutely. That's something that the magazine, editorially, was great about. It was sort of getting rid of the sacred cows and deciding these are the things that need to be discussed Now. We need to sort of swing the conversation back to the middle instead of the extreme. I agree And you know, again, it can't be overstated that the people who were there can actually speak to it and say, no, they've got this story wrong.

Speaker 1: 27:59

You know, you need to come out And it just makes my heart so happy to see the response of everybody of we stand with Heff you know, and you know right, when the A&E series aired, kimberly Heffner was the one who spearheaded. Writing the letter in support of. Heff and his character, And you know that was a wonderful thing, And thank you, Kimberly Heffner, for doing that. Nice Yeah. So, yeah, what else?

Speaker 2: 28:33

on the show.

Speaker 1: 28:35

That's about it. We summed up the initial context of the way that she worded it. You can tell it's a little bit of contempt there. But again, you know, if you want to listen to it, listen to it. But just know, you know that there is a different narrative that is honest and factual and authentic and true. And you know we're just here to share that with you and everybody from Playboy. The world of Playboy is And there will be a lot more people coming on our show from Playboy and you know friends and family and staff members. We're just going to keep this going And I think we are a large enough force to be reckoned with And I think that we're going to hear us.

Speaker 2: 29:25

I mean, look, we are in a media environment where it's relatively easy to put stuff out there, whether it's a podcast or a video documentary or anything, and there's no stopping a one-sided narrative. But the best thing that can be done is to counter that speech with more speech and just be able to say like hey, that wasn't my experience or my understanding or any of the history that I've heard with anybody there.

Speaker 1: 29:59

Right. And then not to mention so many firsthand accounts that you know people are coming in and going. Oh no, actually I was there. And then this is actually what did happen, and I'm just so grateful for that. I'm so grateful for this Playboy family. It has been so fun to reunite with everybody, john You know, it's just like it's food for the soul And you know it's like you were saying. I mean, we worked with the most incredible people, talented, interesting, you know. I mean just really, really an amazing experience for all of us.

Speaker 2: 30:32

And people again can't be overstated, people who cared. Yes, deeply, they really cared deeply about their jobs and about the impact and importance of the words that were on those pages. Yeah, getting out there to the world.

Speaker 1: 30:46

It was a living, breathing brand And we were all a part of it, you know.

Speaker 2: 30:50

Yeah, indeed.

Speaker 1: 30:52

So that wraps up that reaction to I don't even know what show number that was, but that's what we have to say on that. So, all right, well, we're going to wrap up the show here, john. Thank you so much, thank you My pleasure. I'm going to take a little bit of a measure to go down history lane with you.

Speaker 2: 31:13

I look forward to all the other shows because I want to hear what everybody else says. Yeah, yeah exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1: 31:18

And so, in the interim, as I told you and now telling the listeners, while Karina is recovering and going through radiation, we are going to have a rotating guest host come in, we're going to have a couple of different playmates and some Playboy staff And we are going to be doing a lot of this type of context until we go into season two, which will be starting in May. All right, okay, do you want to plug anything?

Speaker 2: 31:48

Oh hey, podcastronburycom, There you go. You want to nerd out? Come check us out. Windowless.