PLAYBOY IN THE 80'S - CATHY ST. GEORGE - AUGUST '82 PLAYMATE of THE MONTH -

The Lovely, buxom and slender blonde model, actress and make-up artist Cathy St. George  was born on August 23, 1954 in Norfolk, Virginia. An Army brat, Cathy moved with her family to Los Angeles, California.

St. George started out working for "Playboy" as a make-up artist. Cathy was the Playmate of the Month in the August, 1982 issue of "Playboy." She posed with her sister Toni for a pictorial in the April, 1985 issue of "Playboy." Moreover, St. George has appeared in a handful of "Playboy" special edition publications and was featured in several "Playboy" videos.

Cathy not only has acted in a few films and TV shows, but also has modeled for various artists. In addition, she has worked as a make-up artist in print, film, and television. Cathy owns a dog named Tallulah and makes regular appearances at assorted conventions held all over America. Cathy St. George lives in New York City.

FOLLOW CATHY ST. GEORGE HERE:
@cathystgeorge

A HUGE THANK YOU TO CATHY ST. GEORGE! Both as my guest co-host and for this awesome interview!

With Love & Gratitude 

Corinna and Echo

Transcript

Speaker 1: Hi, my name is Corinna Harney. Playboys Playmate of the Year 1992. And I'm Echo Johnson, miss January 1994. Welcome to the Bunny Chronicles, let's go. Welcome back to the show. Today we have a very special guest co-host villain in for us. Miss Karina Harney was not available so we thought it would be fun to have some of our playmate sisters come in. So today we have Miss Kathy St George joining us. Kathy was a playmate in August of 1981. Actually 82. Okay, and the reason I said 81 is because you had a cover first, which was the what issue. It was August, it was October of 1981. October of 1981. 

Speaker 2: Which is very rare to get the cover first. 

Speaker 1: So October 81, centerfold August 82. How did that come to be that you got a cover first? Because that is rare. 

Speaker 2: Well, i actually shot my centerfold with Pompeo Oh, pompeo. And they accepted it And it was. I wish I could get ahold of it now, but it was very pretty and I loved Pompeo. But afterwards I flew to Chicago and shot some covers with Tom Stabler, and when Heff saw my covers, he looked and he saw this particular one that they decided to go with. He said you know, i like this cover better than I like her centerfold. And he made me start all over again And I shot a second one. I shot a second one with A second centerfold, second centerfold with Ken Marcus. Okay Then, and it was perfect, but, believe it or not, my breasts were both facing forward. 

Speaker 1: What was wrong with that? 

Speaker 2: Heff No, no breasts facing forward. Heff looked at it and said this is beautiful, but I want him to reshoot it with one breast this way and one breast forward. 

Speaker 1: So I will say on that, that completely makes sense, because we know as Playboy Playmates and centerfolds, first of all, how grueling it is to shoot your centerfold, but how absolutely particular Hugh Heffner was when it came down to approving in every finite detail. And so you're damn straight that if one of the boobs was not the right direction he's going to make you reshoot it. So that makes sense, he said. 

Speaker 2: I love her breasts Thank you, heff, but I want them angled this way And it's very expensive. As you know, when we shoot a centerfold, it's all eight by 10 camera And you shoot like five days. 

Speaker 1: Let's talk about what an eight by 10 camera is, because I don't think most of our audience knows what that is. And that was a trip to. 

Speaker 2: It's what they used back in the early centuries. 

Speaker 1: It was like a original format, one at a time, large. 

Speaker 2: You put a cloth over your head and you're in there and they slide a piece of film It's almost like glass They slide it in the slot And then they cover their head and then they shoot it, and so it's, and they're very expensive. It's a very expensive way to shoot And they would shoot five days of that. 

Speaker 1: Exactly So. It was one. Think about it in this context. For our audience It was like one large eight by 10 Polaroid that would come out Yes, it would then the photographer lighting, everybody would look at it, make the adjustments. But that was five days straight, usually 10, sometimes 15-hour days, in the same exact position or pose that was chosen for you and you could not waver from it. 

Speaker 2: Sometimes it was hard to get out of the pose when you were done. True, true. 

Speaker 1: And Okay, so then you did a third one after. 

Speaker 2: So then. So I did the third one with the breast angle the right direction, god forbid. And after they accepted it, they loved it. They found out that the blouse I was wearing was being worn by Shannon Tweed on the calendar that was coming out. Oh, you know how they do the calendar, yeah. 

Speaker 1: She's wearing it on the cover, But the playmate review and they said absolutely not. We can't have the same shirt. 

Speaker 2: So they shot it again with Arnie Freitag, but I was laying on my stomach. It was a great shot, but my breast didn't show at all, and when Hap saw that he goes oh no, we have to see her breast. Let's just go ahead and take the other one. I don't care if it's in the calendar, so we ended up going with that one. So I shot four centerfolds and four small cameras with different photographers. 

Speaker 1: Over a span of how long Almost a year and a half, holy shit. 

Speaker 2: And then That's nerve-wracking, i know. And then they used six different photographers working my layout. They gave That's unique And every photographer was represented who shot me in my layout. That is very, very cool And almost all were bed shots, so I look like a slut. 

Speaker 1: But I Well, aren't you that old whore? you caught yourself. So that's fascinating because usually, or typically, whoever you shot your centerfold with, they shot the centerfold and then small camera which was the rest of the layout. Would, be either, like for myself, it was David Meesee, but the photographers at that time Stephen Wade at David Meesee, arnie Freitag, who was in Chicago in well Pompeo. 

Speaker 2: That was a David, it was an Asian Name, but I can't remember. 

Speaker 1: now It's like brain dead and then the one that shot Karina's layout. I can't think of his name. He's no longer alive. He was in Chicago, chicago. 

Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of some of the ones in Chicago, because I work so much in LA. I mean, right, there is it. I had. Arnie Freitag, pompeo facade. Richard Fegley, ken. 

Speaker 1: Marley, that's who yeah love Richard Yeah so that's. That's really interesting, because then you got a full spectrum and each photographer, yes, equally as amazing, but definitely had their own unique style. 

Speaker 2: I know so. 

Speaker 1: I'm sure that you could see that in your life. 

Speaker 2: Yes, I looked different in some of the pictures I look different because each one sort of captured you in their vision and so It was very versatile. The layout was very versatile and I even had the Photographer, dick Bruin, who tested me, originally to send to playboy for them to do a test. They put one of his in too Interesting. And how old were you? I was actually 27. 

Speaker 1: That's considered old to be testing for playmate. Wow, came out, there's only a handful of playmates I know that were in their late 20s. 

Speaker 2: that got approved it came out, my 28th birthday and it was for my tenure high school reunion. 

Speaker 1: Well, how did your journey even begin to become? did you know you wanted to be a playmate, or how did that even come to be? 

Speaker 2: It used to be. I used to read play. Look at playboys. When I was young, i thought they were beautiful women and. 

Speaker 2: I thought I hold, i would love to be a Pelly boy interval. They're so pretty, yeah. and then I Was, believe it or not, in an aesthetics school Learning aesthetics, because I was a makeup artist and thought I just moved back to California, it's probably good to learn aesthetics because it broadens my chances of getting work and things like that. And I was sitting in the room and they had they brought in a makeup artist who did photography for you know, like magazines and things like that, and She pulled me out of the audience to do my makeup, mm-hmm. and when We were done She handed me her card, said I know a Photographer who would love to shoot a wee cover and you would be perfect. 

Speaker 2: And we was also owned by playboy at the time. Okay, okay, it was the European version of playboy, got it? So I said okay. so when I went and met with a photographer and I had never modeled and I said I would actually love to test for playboy because I really I had Just been divorced, moved across the country and I really needed make some money because I left my husband, pretty much everything, mm-hmm. But a hundred dollars for gas to get the hell out, i'm like I'm. 

Speaker 2: gas is cheaper than it was like 12 cents a gallon. I drove from Florida to California and a hundred dollars, you know but He. So he decided to test me and we did some shooting and they, they sent it into Linda Kenny. Mm-hmm, who's Linda Kenny? Linda Kenny used to be Marilyn's Marilyn Grabowski. He was the west sort of her Assistant, our co-editor. I mean not co -editor, but assistant editor. 

Speaker 1: But she also did the makeup too back then now, is it true that you had to do your own makeup for your center? Yes, i did. 

Speaker 2: Now why? and they got cheaper than if somebody else had done it? Why did you have to do your own makeup? Well, they thought I was a really good makeup artist because I had done so many playmates in that time I'd started. When I first tested, I said to them and I looked at her kit now I had never done photography makeup in my life. I had worked for a stay-launched training makeup artist for years and. But I lied and They called me two days later after they tested me and said what do you charge for makeup? And I had no clue what to say and I said $200. They said okay and they hired me. 

Speaker 1: So you started working for playboy right away first, and then became yeah, i mean. I shot right, you were shoot, yeah, cuz it took you a year and a half to actually get. 

Speaker 2: Yes, so I shot in the suit. I worked in the studio at least three days a week. 

Speaker 1: That's so neat. 

Speaker 2: Yes, I got to meet a lot of the playmates. I bet I could help them with posing because I had done it, exactly it was. It was a win, win, win. Absolutely, so absolutely and they have few. So call me mother hen, because I took care of my girl. So right. 

Speaker 1: So you and have for you and half were close and and I also just want to bring up the fact that you know, you're from the 80s, i'm, you know, from the 90s and Coming into the mansion, you know, in 93 half was married to Kimberly and you would hear about what it was like, you know, previously and we didn't get to actually witness that, until half and Kimberly got divorced and the party started happening all over again. 

Speaker 1: But what was it like in the 80s? What was it like at the mansion? What was half like? What was going on in his world? What was the company doing? It was so much fun. 

Speaker 2: Now I met you, hefner, because they hired me to do his makeup for Halloween. Oh, and I was a nervous wreck. I had to make him a vampire And I remember because there was a German issue of Playboy, a shoot that Philip Dixon did, and I loved the way the makeup was done for this vampire, you know. So I kind of went with that And I did his makeup and I wanted to put this very deep sort of purple really inside his lips so his lips look thin and menacing. 

Speaker 1: Right right. 

Speaker 2: The color would only be in here. And Heff said oh no, i can't wear lipstick. And I said why? He said people think I'm gay. He did not. I swear to God, people will think I'm gay. I go. Oh yeah, that's what they're gonna think. 

Speaker 1: So it was a hard? no, no, it was a hard. No, you weren't able to do it. 

Speaker 2: And then I told him when I was gonna be it was my very first party at the Playboy mansion And I had bought this little beautiful body stocking in gold and I made the tail with a bow on it and I made ears for my head and I made this gold horn with cord around it glitter. And I went as a unicorn and Heff said do you know how many horny jokes you're gonna hear tonight? I said it's okay, but I'm so sure that every time I went to hug somebody I poked him in the neck with my horn. 

Speaker 1: With your horn right. No kidding. So that was your introduction to the beginning of your. 

Speaker 2: I mean, i had gone up a couple of times but I was afraid to talk to him. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly the first time that you're there or wish to meet him. there's an element of like whoa, you're a little off-part. 

Speaker 2: When you've been one-on-one so close. After that, he was always nice to me. 

Speaker 1: Aw, he was. 

Speaker 2: yeah, he's such a sweetheart, Always kissed me hello, and I also did Saundra Theodores make up the same night as Supergirl. 

Speaker 1: So he was with Saundra Theodores at that time. Yeah, that's right, because it had been the early 80s. And they were together for five years. They were a good couple. 

Speaker 2: You know I didn't get there until 80, but they were together before that And they were together at least 82, that I know of, and she ended up being my roommate. I ended up moving. It was Saundra and Kelly Tough. 

Speaker 1: In LA. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, it was fun. 

Speaker 2: And it comes full circle Because she was never there. she's always with Heft, so I had her room. Right, right, right right exactly That worked out perfectly. She had a beautiful apartment. 

Speaker 1: So, realistically though, you worked consistently with Playboy for decades. 

Speaker 2: You know, well, i did. I worked with the magazine for like two years a lot, and I even trained some of the makeup artists that came in and then they undercut my prices, which you don't want to do that. Who did you train? I trained Tracy, okay. Okay, tracy, when she came in, was Steve Wade. 

Speaker 2: But once my centerfold came out, they used me less because I was doing promotions and things like that. And then they would have me come in for special things, like celebrities doing pictorials, things like that. I did a lot of celebrities Fran Jeffries, you know, and what is it? Rita Generette and all these people And then so then I didn't work as much with them. But then when the channel came out Oh, the Playboy channel, yeah, i started working all the time. I would do all the host reps for the girls. So explain what host reps are for our audience. Okay, whenever a new girl would, it was her month of her centerfold, of you know, her promotion month. They would do little like spots or introductions to shows and things like that. Like they would use the Playmate to say and here we go with Playmate Bloopers, or welcome to Playboy channel. 

Speaker 1: You were the host for the month, basically. 

Speaker 2: Yes, and they would just pop you in all through the month. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember recording that And I remember going home with like half the wardrobe because I loved it. 

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's lucky. 

Speaker 1: I wish I thought of that, and then every time I went back to the mansion I was like, oh my God, i just love the way I look so much. I just keep my makeup on and, like, find a reason to go out. Do you know everybody? 

Speaker 2: did that. Whenever I used to do makeup for the girls, they loved my work. They'd say I gotta go out tonight now. I know you didn't wanna waste it. And one of them was I think it was Cindy Woods who was playing me to the year in the 70s And she also did a spot on Apocalypse Now, but she said I actually slept with my head looking straight up so that I could wear it the next day too. 

Speaker 1: So in the 80s, then that would have been the era of the Playboy Clubs as well, right? Did you ever work at any of the clubs or do events there, and what were? 

Speaker 2: they like. I did events, i did promotions, like in Great Gorge I did one and I think that's one of the only ones I actually worked. I worked at, but I did when I traveled. If I was traveling, sometimes I would go to the clubs to check them out. You know the Chicago one and also New York. I went to the New York club quite a bit And then I actually went to one of the last New York clubs, which is only like six, seven years ago, maybe less. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, that lasted for about two years, but we can lay that on the new Playboy, because they certainly don't have any idea how to run that company? 

Speaker 2: They have any of our centerfolds hanging, and that's why I went to-. Of course not, no. 

Speaker 1: You know what? That the new Playboy. They have made it such a point to completely remove themselves from any affiliation with Hugh Hefner and it is so baffling to me, I know, And it is so wrong and what they have now gone in and created, it's like it's not Playboy. I mean, it's a joke to me. 

Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, i think in a sense they were trying to create something a little more. I mean Playboy with Hef. It was an institution. But once you buy something like that and Hef's not there, you have to almost go another direction because you can't keep going back to someone, especially God rest his soul. He passed away. So they were trying to still make Playboy something. So they kind of went, took it another direction. I mean, some of the clothes are really cute that they sell, but the fact is it's sad because it's not Playboy. 

Speaker 1: Well, you know what's really interesting. So all of the international publications continue to create and produce the beautiful glossy publication each month around the world. In America we are the only ones that do not create the publication. With that said, I understand how expensive it was to create the publication And with Hef gone, there was no way that I think you could carry on that caliber unless Cooper had stayed on. But Cooper, for his own decisions, decided to go because he saw the writing on the wall and the direction it was going and he didn't want to be a part of it. 

Speaker 1: But I don't know. There's just so many things that they've done that it's bizarre to me that it's now just turned into a merchandising brand. That's right. And then the centerfold. Which did you know that they trademark the term centerfold? So when you go on to Playboycom now it says look at our new Playboy or new Playmate of the Month, They direct you into centerfold. and it's only fans. So it's every type of woman you can imagine doing anything you can't imagine. Oh no, So gross, and what a slap in the face to us. 

Speaker 2: Oh, my God, you know, that's the thing is, when they put it, when they make it less than it makes us less than. 

Speaker 1: Exactly. 

Speaker 2: You know, because that is. That's why I really have. I have no complaints about it. The time I went to the mansion, i mean I had more fun than I should have been allowed, and also it was like my second home. I used to go up there. 

Speaker 1: For a lot of us it was. 

Speaker 2: I used to go up on Tuesday and Thursday nights because half played Monopoly every Tuesday, Thursday And I would go up in my pajamas with a ponytail on top of my head. And when I say my pajamas, they weren't pretty pajamas. 

Speaker 2: They were sweats And I'd wear a ponytail on top of my head. I just didn't like being alone all the time. So I would go up there and I'd lay on the couch while he played Monopoly and order a BLT with avocado which was my favorite with Joni, and I would eat and hang out with them till it was bedtime And then I would drive back to my apartment because it was very close But you could go up. You didn't have to be beautiful up there, he didn't care. 

Speaker 1: He loved us, even when we had curlers in our hair you know, absolutely, he loved us, he respected us, he loved us And he loved us being around, and that was the beauty of it. It was a second home to all of us And there was, i'll say, an open door policy, but that wasn't for everybody, but certainly a good amount of us. Were we in town, or did we live in Los Angeles And we wanted to come up? Absolutely, come on up. It was amazing to have access to that whenever. 

Speaker 2: I had a 24,. I was on a 24 hour list. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, there was 24 hour lists. 

Speaker 2: I would go, after I went out drinking, stop and have steak and eggs. 

Speaker 1: Like I'm hungry To soak up the alcohol, let's go eat All by myself. 

Speaker 2: All by myself, and then I'd go home because I feel better. 

Speaker 1: you know, that was the best was the 24 hour room service. Oh my God. 

Speaker 2: Whatever, whenever you wanted And the girls were very close. It was very much sorority like. 

Speaker 1: Absolutely. We hung out there. 

Speaker 2: We hung out there by the pool all the time. We worked out together, we would do aerobics classes and everybody'd come up And it was just so much fun. And one time he had emus, though I don't know what possessed him to get them, you know, they're like ostriches. That's the only animal I didn't like. Or bird I didn't like. 

Speaker 1: That he got because it would come after you It would come after me and steal my sandwiches. The zoo, the zoo at the at the mansion. Did you know that that I think it's the only Home, probably in California I had a zoo license. 

Speaker 2: And that's the one thing that forest. 

Speaker 1: It was considered a forest and a natural forest. Right um Darren Montopolis, who bought the mansion, did keep the animals there. That is my understanding, so I'm sure that he's maintaining the the zoo license, because that was such a beautiful part of it, the grounds, and you know, the wildlife and he got rid of the aviary, which I was sad because yeah. 

Speaker 2: But I remember once there was a bird, one of the bigger birds, and it would sit by the pool and you'd walk by the bird. It would go bump de bump, bump de bump. Was it a parrot? I don't know what kind of bird it was, it was a big one. But somebody taught it that. 

Speaker 1: That is funny bump, bump, bump de bump like we were shaking it. Look at the ladies shaking that out as they walk by and then there was one that was like losing its feathers. 

Speaker 2: It was pretty old and And half was thinking, yeah, it might be time to get rid of it because it was looking pretty scary, you know. And We taught it to say I love you half, oh. And after that he couldn't get rid of it, you know yeah, he's like you know he's a sucker for all that love one of his many philanthropic endeavors. 

Speaker 1: You know it was um the, the wildlife Foundation, and that's one of multiple things that he had his name attached to which we will be talking about over the next um. 

Speaker 2: You know A series of shows that we do and I think it'll really surprise people because, oh yeah he was involved in, he loved, he loved and animals were and he loved birds and he loved everything you know, And the thing, what I love and he loved us, because what I loved about him is he always had my doll in the house, because when you are all hanging out together, all these girls just sync up, and when you've got PMS going all at the same time, he would always have my doll in the house for us. 

Speaker 1: A way would take our mind right, it would always be in all the bathrooms. 

Speaker 2: All and you know that you can't do that anymore And towards provide my doll you can't. You can't even give someone an aspirin. In your home and heath And that was at the mansion too, towards the last few years you can't even give someone an aspirin. 

Speaker 1: Nothing, Oh shit. Why did you excedron this morning? Well, you know. 

Speaker 2: I'm not gonna sue you, but it was because if something happened, if somebody was allergic or whatever He, you just can't give out any medication anymore. Huh, in a house, well, it's a different time. 

Speaker 1: Yeah That we live in. 

Speaker 2: Well, back then they'd give you no. Well, heath didn't. But other parties I went to they try to give you kwayloons and everything. But now Thank god that they've changed the rules. 

Speaker 1: Um, will you talk about that? because obviously there's the, the prevalent narrative going around by We know who, that you know multiple things have been said about half, that you know he abused drugs and they gave drugs out to all the girls And he was, you know, sexually abusive. The list goes on and on and on, which we all know is the furthest thing from the truth. But you certainly at that era and the eight is when when drugs were uber, uber prevalent, yes, and you didn't even witness it. 

Speaker 2: I Have never gave the women drugs. Uh, I happen to know where the girls got their drugs. 

Speaker 1: And this is at the same time that you were roommates with sondra, theodore, and sondra was with half. Yes, and we know what was said in the dark secrets of playboy. 

Speaker 2: Yes, and that's not true, and I know who she bought her drugs from, and it wasn't you, hefner, yep and also, um, i mean they were, but heff, really, i mean he knew they were going to be done, he wanted him done. if you're going to do something like that, He didn't want to see it. You didn't want to know about it because if he did yeah would be taken off the ground. 

Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and the only thing is he would say please be careful, because if you do it in the bathroom because one of his best friends, uh, john daunte, had a dog named louie, a little poodle that loved cocaine, the poodle that loved cocaine, and he, if he got out of the bedroom before The floors were cleaned in the bathrooms, i like it up. He would go look it up. So he was so worried about that dog. He'd say please don't do it, you know, because We have a dog with a problem. 

Speaker 1: You know I'm ticked it. 

Speaker 2: Please don't do it in the house. You know, we cared about that dog. I mean, it was so cute. But the worst part is, if you were doing it, the dog would come up and lick your nose and you'd be going oh, i just got outed, wow. 

Speaker 1: From miles away. 

Speaker 2: I thought it just liked me. 

Speaker 1: Little did. I know That's hysterical. 

Speaker 2: I mean it was you know, it was something everybody went through. I mean I had in the 80s It was. 

Speaker 1: That was the time everybody was doing cocaine. 

Speaker 2: And I, i did my, i did my centerfold party at studio 54. 

Speaker 1: Oh, you did. 

Speaker 2: Yes, uh, when my, my centerfold came out, oh cool, um, it was a studio 54 and when, and they had all these headshots float down from the ceiling and it was my girlfriend is a centerfold playing. 

Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that was legendary It was so cute. 

Speaker 2: A lot of great people came. 

Speaker 1: How fun so it was a lot of fun speaking of um, you know that era and parties and the mansion and whatnot. I'm sure you met tons of fabulous celebrities of that era. Do you have any fun stories, funny stories? 

Speaker 2: Well, it's uh, i well, i met a lot of celebrities there. I I don't really have, i don't really have. I mean, i have fun stories outside the mansion too, because the relations that you for friends, people, yeah, because you, you actually Get to become friends with some of them, you know, and it's it's, it's a lot of fun. but, um, i, i never fooled around with anybody up at the mansion, except for one person, and that was because I was already dating him and he came up and I who thought, oh, i better not, oh, you were dating him. 

Speaker 2: I was dating him. I only had six months at the mansion. That shows you what a clean place it was um Tony Danza. 

Speaker 1: Haughty, mick haughty. I love me some. Tony Danza, how cool you guys are friends to this day. You were just talking about how, yes. 

Speaker 2: Dear friend and he came to my party when I did it studio. His whole family came, his mother, everybody came Very cool So it was really fun. 

Speaker 2: In the next day after the party I went fishing with him. In the morning We went out to Long Island, i went fishing with his dad and his cousin and I'd been up all night, but luckily I wasn't doing any drugs or anything, i just was up. Yeah, it's like my adrenaline was going because it was my center full. My god, you know, of course. So it was really fun. 

Speaker 1: Of course. So if there's three things that um, or three words that define, have to you, what would those three words be? 

Speaker 2: I don't think he would like that I say this, but he was very fraternal to me. He looked after me a lot and like if I had a boyfriend I broke up with, i was all sad He'd sit and talk to me for two hours. That's how he was so, oh yes, he was very protective of me. Uh, we like to joke around. in fact, a lot of the pictures I have of us You guys are cracking up. 

Speaker 2: We're both laughing, you know. So he was a good friend to me as well and um I I think he's one of the best people and made the biggest lasting impression of I caught pretty much anybody in my life. Yeah, i mean I felt like he was a father to me, i felt, but it also he was really handsome. I said when he passed away, i said now I wish I had sex with him. And somebody said why? I said because it's harder to lose a lover than it is to lose a father. That's funny, but don't tell him I thought he was a father because you know he was really hot. 

Speaker 1: You know, looking when I'm mad, i mean no, but I think that would be the general. But he just is that. You know, he, he, he did make sure that we were looked after and it was very, very important to him. You know, especially the play, the playmates that had a close friendship with him, you know, and they would, they would sit down and talk to him about whatever it was that was going on in their lives, whether it be romantic issues or not, and he was always there and he would listen you talk to you About personal things. 

Speaker 2: Sometimes he'd stop and tell me something. I mean, one time he stopped me and he said you know that girl? I told you I really liked I go. Yeah, i was outside and he goes. Well, we finally got together last night and I said congratulations. He said I just hope she remembers me. I said you have that problem too. 

Speaker 1: I hope she remembers me, duh. 

Speaker 2: I said you have that problem. You're insecure too. 

Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so funny. Okay, two more words, two more words. 

Speaker 2: Okay, um, god, that's really. It's hard for me to think of this. Um, the most fun. I mean I had more fun with half. I mean it was just like the most magical time of my life And to have that experience, to be able to go up there, it was like a second home. I always felt welcome. I never felt pressured, i never felt like. That's why I don't understand how these people were in the same house. I was, but I never saw any of that stuff. 

Speaker 1: Right isn't that interesting I never saw any of it. 

Speaker 2: I was like, should I be insulted? Did he never try, you know? but he, i mean he did express the desire to have me come up and visit him upstairs, which is totally. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, and that happened to me as well, and I'm sure that happened to many playmates. 

Speaker 2: Yes, but that's very gentlemanly If you wanted to go upstairs, go upstairs. 

Speaker 1: If you didn't want to go upstairs, you didn't go upstairs. I would say thank you so much. I appreciate it. I had a great time. But I'm gonna go to bed. No problem, darling, give me a kiss. Good night. 

Speaker 2: That's it. You know what I said the first time? I said, listen, i just got a divorce. I married. the first guy I slept with You wouldn't want to sleep with me. I said I'm telling you now it could be a real buzzkill, real buzzkill. I said let me get a little experience in my life first. And he hugged me and he goes you go for it, girl. Go get some experience. 

Speaker 1: That is so funny. I love it. I'd be a real buzzkill. I'd be a real buzzkill in bed. 

Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of these words to explain to him. Just, I feel a complete loss, loss also that he's gone. Yeah, when he passed, Because I will tell you that he was such an important part of my life and would not to have him anymore. not to know he's not there anymore was really a loss I had-. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah for everybody. You know it's like obviously we knew that time was gonna come when he would pass. but gosh, we all got that news. 

Speaker 2: I know It was heavy And I didn't spend a lot of time with him towards the end, because-. Well, nobody did, nobody had access to him, and that's what hurt me the most was because I'd always had access to him and all of a sudden it's like having your friend taken a break from me. 

Speaker 1: All of his closest friends lost access to him. as you know Everybody that was on that 24 hour list that were his closest confidants for decades and decades. All of a sudden, you're not allowed to come up to the mansion. 

Speaker 2: We can leave that, for what you think, you can email him funny pictures or stories or things I'd read and he'd always get back to me And then, all of a sudden, you weren't even allowed to email him. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, we were allowed to contact him. All communication was completely cut off, that's-. 

Speaker 2: What have you gotten? 

Speaker 1: a dough, you know, i think that'll make anybody pass away that much faster. 

Speaker 2: I had a medium contact with me and she'd been trying to get a hold of me for months and months and months And she finally got a hold of me and she was on the phone and she's in Pittsburgh and I hadn't seen her in four years and I said I'm so sorry to get back to you. What's going on? She goes I have to call you because these three men keep coming and talking to me And one of them I know is your father because I've seen him before. The other one, i think, is your father, and one of them wears a smoking jacket, a pipe. It was half And I said it's my three fathers. It's my three fathers, yay. 

Speaker 1: Yay, okay, well, that, actually that's a good segue. then, to ask you this had you had the opportunity to say anything too half before he passed, what would you have said? 

Speaker 2: Get rid of that bitch. 

Speaker 1: Yes, count on Cathy, keep it real Well. That probably was the general consensus from all of us, I know. 

Speaker 2: I mean, i couldn't figure out a way to kill her, but trust me, it did go through my mind, i'm sure. Yeah, you know, yeah, that was yeah. Yeah, he was too good a person to be cut off from the people who loved him. 

Speaker 1: Plus, that was his life, that was his livelihood. He thrived on having people around him. That's why the mansion was open in that capacity and every single night something was planned and that never, heff, never swayed from that plan or those calendar events. He was religious about everything that he did, i know, and then for that just to completely disappear, i mean. 

Speaker 2: And sometimes I remember when you'd go to the movies and certain nights he played old movies like he loved old and old. I think that was Friday nights. Friday nights It didn't used to be back in the old days, it was always new movies Friday and Sunday, but then it became Friday night, was the old movies And so you'd be watching a Hitchcock movie or something. But what I love the most is, before each movie he had done research And he would look up trivia about it And it was an Ingrid Bergman and I think Carrie Grant was in it. I wish I could think of the name of it, but it was a Hitchcock film. 

Speaker 2: And he said and he read this whole thing about it this period of time. He said, first of all he tells you all about the actors. And then he says, and you will notice in the kissing scenes that none of the kisses last more than a certain amount of seconds because it was illegal back then Really It was illegal to have a kiss go longer than, i think, 30 seconds. So you'll notice that they break the kiss and then go back to the kiss, cause if they break it then it's they can go back to it. 

Speaker 2: That is a fascinating fact toy Who knew, and he always showed an Old Warner Brothers cartoon before the movie too. 

Speaker 1: And it was so much fun. Well, and that just speaks to have ultimate love affair with cinema. And then his multiple philanthropic endeavors surrounding preserving cinema and then addressing censorship in cinema, and specifically the two endowments that were made USC And it's my understanding that I do think that Heft did end up going a handful of times and teaching that class at USC And then there's also a endowment at UCLA that honored him, but it's all around the preservation of cinema And he would always talk about, you know, as a kid, i mean, that was that's what he did, he watched movies and ultimately that's what he, you know, created. The centerfold on was those movie stars of that era, you know, and it all comes full circle. 

Speaker 2: I know, And what he also loved so much He loved to scrapbooking, remember. 

Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he would say the rule. He was in the Guinness Book of World Records for scrapbooking. Did you know that? I did not know that, yeah. 

Speaker 2: Oh my God. But he'd sit in a floor on the floor surrounded by pictures and stuff and pick them out to put in his books. His whole life is scrapbook. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, the scrapbooking was, was prevalent, i mean, and he would do that. He would do that every single day of his life. You know there was a dedicated room at the mansion for scrapbooking. My daughter is even in the albums from. You know, from the from the Easter events. I mean all of us are in there. You know, on top of just his entire life, i mean talk about I wonder where the scrapbooks are. Hopefully the HMH Foundation has them. 

Speaker 2: I know it's. It's weird because I remember calling the archives and things like that, and towards the end, when Heff was not there anymore, but I remember cause they they put a pictorial up for me. This was after I reshot my cover, but it was like in August they did this whole pictorial of me. It was pictures I'd never seen Right And I called them and asked if they had any of the special edition pictures, cause we shot so many for that And one of them, a few of them, were never used because they just, i don't know, got lost in the in the library or something And they did not even have those anymore. They did not have any of the special edition pictures, only original centerfold stuff. 

Speaker 1: Actually, i do know that it's probably year and a half ago when we did a roundtable with the PMOIs Renee Tennyson, brandy Roderick, karina Harney, obviously and I was trying to pull photos and I went on to Playboycom and if you dig deep you can actually find the playmates and etc. and they have all our libraries. but I did see a lot of content in their photos, particularly that I had not seen, of myself and as well as Renee Tennyson. So you might want to look in there and see if there are anything. 

Speaker 2: I should, because I don't have a password. Believe it or not, i don't think you have to have a password for this for the playmates, because it always wants me to join You know in the old playboy, if we're playmates, can we get a? password. Well, in the old days, when they started the website, we did get a password. We got to see it free and we also got a monthly issue of Playboy free, and probably for 20, 25 years. I got it and then that stopped. 

Speaker 1: So did you know that I was a driving force behind Playboycom being established? Oh, no, yeah. So I was the second playmate to figure out that the internet was here and it was here to stay and there was a huge opportunity there. So Christina Lear, danny did it first, and then myself, and I taught myself how to build websites and then I had a highly successful membership based website for probably like five years. 

Speaker 1: But I remember being in Chicago and having a conversation with Christy Hefner about it, like the importance of this, and you guys are behind the eight ball, and again it went back to. You know, hef wasn't very sure on it, you know, of course, he didn't understand it, nor did he believe that it was like here to stay. So, finally, when you know, they started to see that, you know, more and more websites were coming on board and, whether it was playmates or not, but women were making, you know, money And that's the way of the future, and so you better make sure that you do that. So when Cindy Rakowitz came in, she spearheaded that and got that done with Christy Hefner, but I do remember having a conversation with Christy about it, like this is Uber important. Well, i do know that And it was a massive undertaking for them to do with the amount of, you know, catalogs and photos and archives they had. 

Speaker 2: I mean, it's a gold mine for them. I started a website and I had like 15 playmates, didn't use Playboy or any of that stuff, But it was still. You know, it was new, but it was after the websites were starting, you know, and I got sued Playboy Well they came after me too. 

Speaker 1: But we came to a resolution that as long as I use the registered trademark of Playboy, that I could go ahead and use it. And then and I want to say it was 2000,. There was that landmark case with Terry Wells exactly, granting not only us but Miss America, miss Universe, whatever title that you were, you have every right to use that in perpetuity, for the rest of your life, because that is your title. 

Speaker 2: That's right, you don't lose a title, unless, of course, maybe what's the Miss America that posed nude for Playboy? She got it yanked. But, once you're a playmate, you'll always be a playmate. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, that was definitely a landmark case. And you know, since then I even had the new Playboy, you know, send me cease and desist orders because I had registered a domain with the word playmate in there. And I wrote back and I said it would behoove you to know this case. I will not be relinquishing my domain And this is my right. And I never heard from them again. 

Speaker 2: We'll see. The thing is they didn't actually sue me, they just threatened and they were going to tie me up And so I decided just wasn't worth it. But then I started to do my own website. It wasn't a bunch of the girls And I got ripped off five times And finally I said God's trying to tell me something. So I never got a website up. But now I had all those pictures that I had shot. So when I went on the road and started doing comic-cons. 

Speaker 2: I had 155 or 106. And I still have more than that. I just those are only the ones I've printed up. Yeah, you know, and I had so much stuff to sell because of it, so it worked out great. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, kidding, same. I ended up counting my galleries and I personally own like 36,640 images that I produced for my galleries that I'm now going to utilize and I'm making digital art out of them and other things. But at the end of the day, like you were saying, going to the autograph conventions, i had so many other pictures from shooting for five years, from my personal website and a new gallery every week, so think about that. 

Speaker 2: I know. 

Speaker 1: It's really cool that we were able to take the opportunity and monetize it, And it was. 

Speaker 2: I know, when I went to do comic-cons, i could only put my photos, non-nude photos out, like my swimsuit stuff, my bench warmer, things like that, and then in a tall magazine box, you know that you I would have it open and it had, you know, like little, like vintage nudes, nudes, non-nudes, vintage, non-nudes, and people could do it like this and no child could see over the top. Yeah, smart. So I sold them like that. 

Speaker 1: But you did Comic-Con for five years. You did that circuit. 

Speaker 2: I did Comic-Con tour conventions and I probably did sometimes two a month, sometimes more. I supported myself for five years but I traveled everywhere and I did it all by train because it was too expensive to carry all your supplies, your sign, everything on a plane They charged you so much, but on a train because I lived in New York and it was close to everything. Most of them are over there, they're in the Midwest, and I traveled by train and like, if I left at 4.30 in the afternoon in New York, i got to Chicago 9.30 in the morning And I would do the show. I'd do two shows there, usually GlamourCon and Wizard. So I would always do two in one week And they're very, very lucrative. 2008,. It kind of hurt because the economy was weird in 2008, but I supported myself for a long time and I got to meet so many lovely people too. 

Speaker 1: For sure, absolutely. 

Speaker 2: It's like joining the circus. doing those shows, you go off and join the circus. See you now. 

Speaker 1: Okay. So had you had the chance to say anything to half before he passed, what would you have said to him? told him what comes to mind. 

Speaker 2: I love you. 

Speaker 1: Yeah. 

Speaker 2: And then I would have thrown my arms around him and my legs around him and not let go. 

Speaker 1: I love it. 

Speaker 2: Because you never know when they're going to be taken away from you. 

Speaker 1: I always get tears when we talk about this and I ask my guest this it brings back a lot. 

Speaker 2: And we're so grateful And thanks for the memories. I mean memories. 

Speaker 1: She means memories, people, not memories. 

Speaker 2: I meant both, she meant both. 

Speaker 1: That's great. Okay, So Kathy is going to be filling in for the next couple round of shows. I'm so so excited. 

Speaker 2: Much to her dismay. 

Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you for joining me, thank you. So yeah, we'll see you next time for our next interview with Candace Jordan. I can't wait. I can't wait. That's going to be fabulous. 

Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me on the show. 

Speaker 1: You got it. Thanks for being here. 

Speaker 2: I appreciate it. I'm Echo, i'm Kathy St George, and this is. 

Speaker 1: The Buddy Chronicles. We'll see you next time.