EMPOWERING WOMEN and CELEBRATING HISTORY: PLAYBOYS WOMEN of COLOR PICTORIALS with SOPHRONIA WILLIAMS

Join us for a special episode of the Bunny Chronicles as we welcome our dear friend Sophronia Williams, who had the amazing opportunity to shoot for Playboy's Newstand Specials. Listen in as Sophronia shares her experience attending a casting call at the University of Texas, being selected for the Big 12 edition, and how her time with Playboy was both comfortable and professional. We also reminisce about our own experiences with Playboy, and the incredible opportunities that Hugh Hefner and the Playboy family provided for us.

From being part of history to seeing our photos in international publications and on billboards, we reflect on the incredible hospitality, networking opportunities, and unforgettable experiences at the Playboy Mansion. As we celebrate the trailblazing Jennifer Jackson, the first black Playboy bunny and centerfold, who made history in 1965, we discuss the courage it took for her to take on this opportunity at just 18 years old, the fan mail and hate mail she received, and how she paved the way for women of all backgrounds to be featured in Playboy.

We also share our own experiences as younger models and reflect on the fame that came with being part of the Playboy legacy. Join us for an episode filled with laughter, memories and the celebration of empowering women who have made history in the world of Playboy. Don't miss out on this heartwarming and inspiring conversation with Sophronia and our reflections on the incredible impact of the Playboy Mansion.

- With Gratitude - 

Echo Johnson + Corinna Harney

Transcript

INTRO: Hi, my name is Corinna Harney, Playboys Playmate of the Year '92. And I'm Echo Johnson, Miss January '93. Welcome to the Bunny Chronicles, let's go. 

Welcome back to the show. y'all, we are back up in the studio in Austin, texas, and we have a super special show for you today. We're going to segway into the other publications that Playboy produced and created, which were known as the Newstand Specials. I personally have I think I have six or seven covers. I have 10 covers in full, but whatever, six or seven on the Newstand Specials. But who is in the studio with us today is Miss Sophronia Williams. Not only is she one of my dearest and closest friends of 30 years, but she also made multiple appearances in the Newstand editions and specials and tested for a Playboy Playmate. She's a beautiful black woman and she appeared on the first and only cover of Women of Color on the Newstand Specials. So, sophronia, thank you so much for joining me in the studio. 

SOPHRONIA: Good to have you. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm really loving being here. You got it. 

ECHO: You got it. So let's segue into how it came to be that you had this opportunity and how exactly not how exactly, but the issues that you shot for. I know that you worked with David Meesey and a lot of the key players in the Chicago offices, so let's just start from the top. 

SOPHRONIA: Yeah well, I was a young babe in the woods many, many, many years ago in college and I'll never forget this. You're in Austin, right, yeah, university of Texas, and look, oh, good morning. And one of my best friends had read back when everybody read newspapers. There was no, you know, there was no electronic media. They're still in there, exactly, and they're like, hey, i just read, you know, in the Statesmen that they're doing a test shoot for Playboy on campus And I was like wow, and they're like God, you should go. You know, my best friend and a couple other people who had mentioned it to me And I will vouch for this because this woman is stunning. 

ECHO: You're so good Go ahead. 

SOPHRONIA: You're so kind A back that I did not think so. So you know that was. you know I was thrilled. You know I've always admired half. I've always, you know, been amored of the magazine. 

Speaker 1: You understood, like the magnitude. 

Speaker 2: Absolutely Right, and I was like you know, i just I was like, wow, why not? you know, why not take a shot? So I went to the casting call and I said I'm here for the something. Something like was it big 12? 

Speaker 1: It was a big 12. 

Speaker 2: And that was the. it was the first ever big 12 edition, so they were shooting which you know what I don't know. 

Speaker 1: I don't know that half of our audience will know what the big 12 is Right. It was a conference of certain colleges that were in the right. 

Speaker 2: Like the SEC, you know exactly, In athletics. 

Speaker 1: or football, football, football. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. So I said I'm here for the Southwest Conference, you know, or shooting, or I don't know. I don't know why I'm here, i don't know, but I'm here, i just I don't know a whole lot about, you know, sports. So they, you know the, the photographer and assistants kind of looked and they're like, okay, well, the big 12. Yes, okay, sure, You know, come on in and you know they did the, the headshots and it was all very, very tasteful and it was, you know, it was very fast. So I'm thinking, wow, that was yeah, i was quick in and out. I'm like, oh, okay, maybe, like, maybe it was David Meesey who was a shot out to David Meesey. 

Speaker 2: We love the photographer that did the test shoot And it's like thank you so much. But I remember him saying something like we really wish you were a university of Texas student. This is for the girls of the big 12. And I went well, wait a minute. I do go to UT. I'm in graduate school here. 

Speaker 1: So because you were a graduate student they're like. 

Speaker 2: Well, no, i said the Southwest Conference. 

Speaker 1: Oh, so they thought Southwest, what used to be Southwest? 

Speaker 2: Exactly, i had no idea It was south of Austin There's a university Well, no, actually the big 12 used to be called the Southwest Conference. 

Speaker 1: Oh, but they probably got it mixed up with Southwest University. Exactly, that's South of here. 

Speaker 2: Or whatever it may have been. Whatever it is, No you're like, i do go to UT. I was like, wait a minute, what's the disconnect? So I explained to them. They were like, oh well, wonderful, well, we'll be in touch. It was just really nice And David was just. He was so cool, so sweet, consummit professional, oh so, so kind, and we laughed, we joked And I felt so comfortable around him. That was the thing I was like. It was just an awesome experience. It was a very comfortable, cool experience. 

Speaker 1: I'm glad that you say that, saphonia, because obviously the playmates talk about the production. It's one of the hardest things you've ever done, but just consummit professionals. So again coming from somebody that is not a playmate but had direct interaction and shot for Playboy, and again says the same thing that it was completely professional on every level? 

Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, and I don't even think it was like maybe several hours later I get a phone call. That's bad, pre-internet or not? Well, yeah, pre-infinity Internet was in its infancy, so email was in its infancy, so everybody had landlines back then, so I don't even know if I had a cell phone. So they called me and they said you know, you're in. And I was told I was picked out. It was myself and two other young ladies that were chosen out of about maybe 700 candidates that came to the casting call. 

Speaker 1: But you know what And you and I talked about this that at the end of the day, that's how it worked when you were chosen whether it was as a playmate or you were testing, or you're shooting for newsstand specials it was a swift decision. They knew immediately. So accolades to you. Thank you, carry on Thank you. 

Speaker 2: So it was just that's when the ride began. So, you know, I started working with David. I started working with Rick Moore. They would call me to come out to do some gigs for the newsstand specials. I remember I was in college girl, So of course it was the big 12. and then, you know, I did college girls and then, you know, so they enjoyed working with me so much that I was asked to fly to Chicago for a test shoot. 

Speaker 1: Now let me back up for a second, because your newsstand specials had already come out and you did a signing, correct? We did. 

Speaker 2: Oh, so yeah, Talk about that. 

Speaker 1: Oh yeah, There's so much. 

Speaker 2: And I'm going by memory here because it was so long ago. So big 12 came out in 96 and it was a huge success. You know, first ever girls of the big 12. We did an autograph signing at Tower Records now defunct Tower Records. That was on the drag, and Austin Tech was hot. I want to say over a thousand people. It was definitely. It was definitely maybe not a thousand, but it was like several hundred people. 

Speaker 1: Well, i believe it, if it was the first issue and it was here in Texas or Austin, absolutely. 

Speaker 2: Let me put it this way And for those people who are listening that may remember Tower Records on the drag, remember how. 

Speaker 1: Because there's no longer. 

Speaker 2: Tower Records. Yes, please see my sister in law in the SIWAM. According to standard, the place was packed like arm to arm packed with guys and women wanting an autograph from myself and the two other young ladies from the University of Texas. Well, yeah, they're stoked. You're repping UT, Hello. And it was really cool when one of my professors walked in And really I was like, hey, how's he going? And she was like, hi, She was stoked for you too. Oh, I don't know about that, But she's saying you better show up at class girl. 

Speaker 2: Absolutely. She wanted to see what was going on. It was all good And everyone was really excited about it. I didn't interview with the Austin Chronicle And my other professors were like great, you looked awesome. There was no backlash. No one said anything negative because it's Playboy. My family, my dad, didn't say anything about it at all, but he wasn't upset And he wasn't upset. I think most fathers are going to have to have to. I was in my 20s. 

Speaker 1: Now, if it was Hustler, it probably differently. 

Speaker 2: Oh, 100% It was. 

Speaker 1: Playboy. He didn't say anything, which means he was kind of like OK, Yeah, it's all good. 

Speaker 2: And my mom said you look beautiful. And she's basically like, hey, it's Playboy Absolutely, and, like you said, it's not some other type of magazine, it's world class. I mean, playboy's always been The Kramdilla Krim. The Kramdilla Krim, that's right. So we did that. That was fun. And then the autograph signing, and then the radio. We were on a talk show in Austin. That was fun. Wait, did you do the show with? 

Speaker 1: Bob, we did Bob, and why, bob? 

Speaker 2: and oh, it's so long ago. I know what you're talking about. I can't think Dale, bob and Dale, there you go So long ago. I'm pretty sure we did, for sure, because they always had the Playmates. But we definitely did. We were on a radio show And that was fun And that was what 96, 90, the magazine comes out And then they flew me out to Chicago. I think is how it went. Then I went to Chicago for a test shoot And I worked with Richard Fagley. 

Speaker 1: So for our audience listening out there, richard Fagley was another the absolute best of the best photographers at Playboy. He was out of Chicago And, as most people may or may not know, but I think for the most part do know, that Playboy was founded in Chicago, so the original headquarters and offices were there And then they had the West Coast locations, had they had two different studios And usually you either were Chicago or Los Angeles, so Saphonia was in Chicago And Richard Fagley had been there for decades. He was one of the best. 

Speaker 2: Oh, he was amazing. It was a lot of fun. Again, i felt safe, i felt comfortable. They did everything in the world to make sure that my visit and my shoot went off very well And it was a great experience. Richard was wonderful. 

Speaker 1: It was a great meeting. Tell me about the test shoot. How many days did you shoot? Was it like shooting a centerfold? 

Speaker 2: It really was. It was all day, and I'm not going to say it was grueling, but that's what you did. 

Speaker 1: It is grueling, though You can definitely use that word, because we all say that is one of the hardest things we've ever done. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was OK And I'll go back to this. It's funny that I'm starting to think about a lot of other times shooting for the magazine, where I almost passed out. So you're right, yeah, you're right. I mean, but it wasn't anything that was super bad, i didn't have to do it Like people. 

Speaker 1: I kind of feel like you might be thinking that if we say grueling they're like oh God, divas. But at the end of the day I don't think people understand what it took to capture that one image Absolutely. And for me it was five 12-hour days where you had to stay in the same damn pose. I mean, it was so uncomfortable, your body was hurting, like you were hungry, like everything, so it took a lot to get it. So there's nothing easy about it. 

Speaker 2: So don't, oh, no, no, no, and I agree with you Absolutely. Again, it's been so long ago. And then I'm thinking about the times. And you're right. The test shoot, though, in Chicago, that was a one-off, i mean, it was just a one-day shoot. And then, of course, get the letter. You're wonderful, but you know, oh damn Did you get? sad when you got that. You know what I did. I'm surprised, do you really? 

Speaker 1: like. 

Speaker 2: But it's OK, because you know what I was, you know. 

Speaker 1: You were still in it, i was still in it, you were still being published. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, and you got the experience. I got exactly. I got the experience. I wasn't disappointed. I think I may have still been in grad school at the time, i don't remember. 

Speaker 1: Oh, that's right, So you were busy like a graduate, Right, exactly. 

Speaker 2: And I was like, well, you know what? It was a great experience. But then after that I started getting calls from the men And I was like I'm going to do a magazine again. Hey, why don't you? We've got the college girls. Can you fly here to do this? Can you go? Can we send you here to do this? And then the women of color And I don't know who was the brainchild of that, But I thought it was just a great concept. 

Speaker 1: You know what It probably was Kevin Custer and Jeff Cohen. 

Speaker 2: You know what You're right. That's right, you're right. No, 100%, i think you're right. And who are both awesome, yeah, amazing. And yes, yes, he's very, very cool. That's right. And again, now that we're talking about the actual shoots, and I do remember, kind of like I'd never modeled in my life, i didn't, oh, that's right, i was newbie. 

Speaker 1: I mean, i don't think about that, yeah. 

Speaker 2: They were probably looking at me like you're, like I don't know, and that was again with me not being chosen as a centerful. That's fine, but they probably this is what I'm thinking, without even talking to Brooke, david or Kevin or any of the guys, or Richard. 

Speaker 1: They probably thought They can see it in the foot Right. 

Speaker 2: They probably thought she's got a great attitude, people like working with her And she's beautiful And you're so sweet And she's wholesome and real. This is what it is. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i mean because at the end of the day I mean there were I will not lie. There were centerfolds that got published And I was like how the hell did you get through? And then there were girls that did not get approved And I was like why the hell did they not get approved? 

Speaker 2: You really never knew, you don't know And it's. But again, like you know, as you said, and to me I felt, like you know what, for me to have even been chosen, that meant have saw something in me, total water. The photographer saw something in me and said hey, let's just give her a shot, you know. 

Speaker 1: So, speaking of that, that have saw you again going back to have hands-on approach to the publication, and the publications as a whole have had first right, a refusal on everything. He would approve every finite detail in the publication playboy, from the front cover to the back cover, right down to the font placement, the advertisers, everything, and he would be the one to decide which photos would be published and which would not. And he also had the final say and who would be a centerfold or not. I assume that he did as well with the newsstand specials. I don't know on that, though We need I should do some research on that. I would be shocked if he did not, I would be shocked too. 

Speaker 2: Because I was told, when I first started working with Playboy, the same thing that you just said. 

Speaker 1: Well then, if you were told that that's fact. 

Speaker 2: And it was just again, as I mentioned before, not being, you know, disheartened the fact I didn't become a playmate, because, hey, yeah, the man himself saw me and was like you know, Let's fly her up, but let's also give her an opportunity to do other things. Yes, you may not work, let's do this. 

Speaker 1: He did definitely approve you to do a test. Absolutely, and at the end of the day and this is something that Karina and I always bring up is that have new explicitly Where you would shine and where you would thrive whether you were an executive in the company or you were a Playmate or you were a newsstand special girl Absolutely knew that was going to be your success. 

Speaker 2: Sure, take that and go cool, absolutely, and that's exactly what I did. Yeah, and you're right, and it's just the women of color. That was. That was a big wow. That was a big wow. I remember my friend was vacationing in Europe and He sent me a picture of a guy Buying the magazine at a newsstand I love Europe. And then he sent me a picture. It was. It was on a billboard, the huge bill. It was in a huge billboard and I don't, i don't recall the country in Europe, but he took a picture of the, of the you know, that was an interesting thing too, that our publications were International and and then you would see other spin-offs of the pictures that you took because they, the international Publications, would choose different images, yes, from all of your material and they run it. 

Speaker 1: So you had a collection of publications and foreign languages. so again, huge It's huge, you know. 

Speaker 2: But Again, it was. I was like I said in the beginning, i was a babe in the woods. I didn't, i'd never modeled in my life, you know. And you know, just on a whim I show up at a test shoot in Austin, texas, and boom, you know it was my chance of a lifetimes. 

Speaker 2: And you know getting to know the photographers, the assistants and makeup artists, you know everyone. You know That I worked with. It was just a great experience. You know consummate professionals Absolutely and you know, I just I think about the women who Have tried and were not successful in being a part of the playboy family and I'm just like You know, now that you know have scone and I'm like, wow, I was a part of history. Amen to that and I'm so grateful for that, absolutely, absolutely. 

Speaker 1: Now, you shared with me the first time that you met Renee Tennyson and Renee Tennyson, playmate of the year 90, i want to say it was either I think it was 90 or 91, and never met. Oh, but you saw, you saw. And you were like wow, because she was the first and only play playmate of the year. A beautiful, black, gorgeous, and her, her twin yeah, it was a yeah, Rosie and Renee. 

Speaker 1: Tennyson Mm-hmm. Yeah, i mean they were Supreme and I'm sure when you saw that you're like oh, yes, that, and you know what it's. 

Speaker 2: Again, as we're you know, Yeah, going back in time, I'm thinking about that, that and that was it. 

Speaker 1: I did. 

Speaker 2: I saw her in the magazine and I was like, oh my, actually my boyfriend at the time at the magazine. 

Speaker 2: That's it, i saw it and I was like, oh my god, she is gorgeous and you know she's black woman, beautiful black woman, and she's in playboy, you know. So that was like that would be really cool. And it just, and all of a sudden, it's kind of crazy how the stars align. I was like then, you know, a couple years later, you're shooting for playboy, exactly you know. I was like, oh my god, you know, did you know or see that issue. 

Speaker 1: It was in 2000, it was 2007 And there was a collective of playmates that came back to reshoot Yes, their covers. 

Speaker 2: I did. 

Speaker 1: It was one of them. So Renee was in the studio with us last season. We have Renee Tennyson, we had Brandy Roderick, karina Harney and myself, so the three playmates of the year and and Renee was talking about that and Renee's second time round, that cover was better than her first. Yeah, but again, that was a super cool thing. Yes, they did. And then she also was included in the publication. It was in 2017, it was called the equality issue, so it was her brand new Roderick, victoria Valentino, who was in her 70s, candace Jordan, who was in her 70s, and when they got that call, hey, we want to reshoot and And include you in this playboy layout without hesitation. Even the women and their studies are like absolutely. 

Speaker 2: Wow, i love it. Yeah, and, as I recall, they all look amazing amazing beautiful, still beautiful, oh, still beautiful, of course, whether in the magazine, of course absolutely So. 

Speaker 1: So you worked with playboy then for a good span of like several years and if shooting and I did. 

Speaker 2: I did, um, well, i was still in graduate school, i did, you know it was, it was fun, you know, actually, my first time ever on a plane, like when I was like 25 years old going to shoot for the women of color. Yeah, i just you know. again, like I said, i was babing the woods, you know it just like at the end of day. Pretty boy just opened up so many doors for for everybody. 

Speaker 1: And it's like there's, i mean, i'm sure, multiple incidents, like you said, the first time being on a plane, yeah, traveling, yeah, i mean, you know, i mean it was showing up at the playboy mansion the first time. I was like whoa where am I? 

Speaker 2: Oh wow, when I got my first invite to the mansion, i was just like Going to the mansion, you know, and it was just super exciting. 

Speaker 1: So what was when you first went on to the property? because we like to ask people this the first time and everybody is like well, It was world but what was it? 

Speaker 2: It's you know the gates open and you're like, oh my goodness, and it was for. Have seen no Halloween party. Oh, the best party. 

Speaker 1: Halloween. It was so fun. Oh, it was so much fun. I mean, they, they, they spared no expense. They did yeah. 

Speaker 2: Proper haunted house every part of the property was like, yeah, so much fun, interactive. Oh it was fantastic, you know it was. The food was amazing. I always go back to the food was the best, 24-7, whatever. Oh my god, it's like. Oh my god, that's of the best. Oh my god, i was like I don't. This life is wonderful. I loved it. It was great and the people were fun and the you know the DJs were great. I mean, i just my, you know, at the end of night. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, when I left the parties, my you know my feet, my legs are always so excited, dance so much and it was just great the vibe, but the energy, everybody's having a great time, having fun. Heff's just a wonderful Gracious. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing host and yeah you know the old and the host absolutely. 

Speaker 2: And you know, when I first met him I was just like oh my god. You know, he was just so kind and so sweet. 

Speaker 1: You know, you really really was and you know it was always like. It always blew my mind And it's it's become even more prevalent now doing these interviews that To actually realize that he knew every single woman's name Without fail, 100%, without fail and that was not an act. 

Speaker 2: That wasn't like you're saying that. 

Speaker 1: I mean he was an absolute genius and he was so kind and he was so happy for you to be there. Absolutely, He loved hosting people. 

Speaker 2: He loved having that home to be able to do that and he wanted everyone to have A wonderful time, which I mean based on what I saw everybody did. It was so much. Yeah, it was. It was always a great time. I always look forward to the times being at the mansion and just seeing people, and you know that, yeah, i saw on the big screen or just meeting new people. You know that weren't on the big screen, you know it was just Well. 

Speaker 1: And actually so when you so when you started shooting It would have been still when health was married to Kimberly, which at that time was a family home. But we got to see the transition from it being a family home and to the party starting again, because we heard about all that. You're like about the heyday a playboy. We always talk about this like how fortunate are we to have experience not only the family home with Kimberly and the boys and the babies, but then for the transition into like half single the parties are back and get a taste of both. Amazing, so much fun. You know, i mean over-the-top parties. 

Speaker 2: I mean, no wonder everybody wanted to get in that well, exactly, and it was like, oh my god, and again the Halloween party, the best you know. But again, i mean my experience, you know, at the mansion going to the parties. You know some of the best times I've ever had my life you know, amazing. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely. And and then, just like the, the relationships that that you made and The resources you've had at your fingertips just from forging right relationships with people and networking, i mean, you know, at the end of the day, i And I don't know that Hep ever said this like to me, but I know that he certainly had had this conversation with playmates that like, look, this is a launching pad for you. That's not the end, all be all, but from this you choose what you want to do with it. Either you take it and you launch it into something else, or you're happy with it And it is what it is, you know, You know, he gave us all that opportunity. 

Speaker 1: Absolutely. 

Speaker 2: No matter if it was, you know, playmate of the year, playmate of the month, you know news and special Just being attached to it. Just exactly Just being a part of the family you know, opens a lot of doors. The Playboy family Absolutely, and you know it's up to you to do what you do out of. You know the opportunity you've been given. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i mean, i know, like certainly for me I can say that you know, i was the second playmate to like figure out that the internet was here and created a membership based website I think it was in 96, 97. And that purely evolved from shooting with the best of the best photographers, working with the best makeup artists, you know, and understanding how to produce and create a proper photo shoot. And from there on, for five years I posted brand new galleries And today I own like 36,000 images that I produce, that now I'm making into NFT artwork And so, like I always like to say like that was my like, that's what I did with it, absolutely I thought myself that at a very shit I was social media before social media even existed, y'all. 

Speaker 2: I mean you're, absolutely you were, and that's that's right, because, like I said in the beginning, i mean back in the mid, well, let's say late 90s, the internet, all that was in its infancy. So you were. you know you were one of the first. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, You were definitely one of the first And I did. They Playboy did come after me because at the end of the day and I've talked about this before, i had a conversation with Christie in Chicago about the importance of them, you know, establishing a dot com department because initially Hef was really he was against it because he didn't understand it And he didn't think that it was here to stay And Hef's, you know, love and passion always was as an editor and so the tangible publication right. So it took a couple of years for them to realize like this is here to stay. They were behind the eight ball on that. It was a little bit of an issue, but they did ultimately create that dot com department. It took several years for them to do it because of the amount of archives they had at their disposal to create that, but that you know that was a huge moment in time. I don't know where I was going with that. 

Speaker 2: Well, you're talking about how you've evolved from playmate to entrepreneur. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was my first case of like entrepreneurship, of like what I learned from Playboy and like took it to that And like. here I am 30 years later and figuring out how to monetize off of that. 

Speaker 2: I would say you've done very well. Thanks, Mola. 

Speaker 1: So Sofernia brought up something today that I did not know and I thought this was super cool. So Jennifer Jackson was the first black Playboy bunny and centerfold in 1965, which absolutely was groundbreaking at that time. With that said, this season we've had the opportunity to speak with a lot of the bunnies that opened up the clubs initially in the 60s and the 70s And the one thing that stood out most of all that it was it ran the gamut of the women that were there. You know there was no racism, i would say, against any woman, like heff wanted every type of woman to symbolize just the plethora of the beauty of women as a whole. So not surprising to me, but again groundbreaking at that time. First black Playboy bunny, centerfold in 1965, ms Jennifer Jackson. Yeah, are you pulling up some pictures? 

Speaker 2: Yeah, she is Yes. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, and the fact that she was a bunny and that she was a centerfold. So there's a handful of women that were bunnies that went and to be centerfolds, because I think a lot of people well, a lot of people think that playmates are bunnies and you always have to correct them on that that the playmates were the centerfolds and the bunnies were the bunnies in the clubs And each role was a coveted position. You know, right, absolutely. But to be able to be a bunny and also be a centerfold was huge. Oh my gosh, she's gorgeous, she's beautiful. 

Speaker 1: So Jennifer Jackson was 18 years old when she walked in the Chicago Headquarters of Playboy. She was in 1964. She was looking for secretarial work, but the folks at Playboy had something else in mind. She applied and right away they put me in a bunny costume. I hadn't dreamed about being a bunny. She was the youngest hire at the Playboy Club in Chicago. Chicago was the first club too, and it was the first time she ever worn three-inch heels. I love it. She got more fan mail than any other bunny, along with some hate mail too, i'm sure. Almost immediately, a Playboy photographer began pestering her to bear it all for pages of Hugh Hefner's increasingly popular magazine which, in addition to racy pictures, both celebrity interviews and ads were interviews and elegant prose by some of the nation's top writers. Oh, that's a cool. You have to send that to me. 

Speaker 2: Love it. Yeah, i mean, that was super cool Back in those days. I mean, that was. 

Speaker 1: I mean that was a must have heard of. No, i mean that was huge. 

Speaker 2: And she. you know that took a lot of courage for her to do that. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Because at that, time, because you knew that, like you knew, i mean just the backlash, i would imagine at that time, of just being a centerfold, absolutely, and they weren't even showing full nudity at that time, right, exactly So think about that And you know, yeah, the courage like no. This is a huge opportunity I'm taking this Absolutely. 

Speaker 2: I mean, and it speaks volumes about her character because you know, again, she was one of the youngest employees. She was first African-American bunny, first African-American centerfold, and they clearly saw something in her that you know that was going to rock the world in which she did. No, that's huge, she was 18. Exactly. 

Speaker 1: And it's such a young age I was 18, too, you know. I think about that sometimes And I'm like, oh my God, if my daughter was. 

Speaker 2: She must have done that. Well, you know what I think that? 

Speaker 1: we this art. 

Speaker 2: you know, we were a lot more mature, you think, when we were a lot younger, if that makes sense. 

Speaker 1: I don't know. I kind of feel like like looking back on it now like I would not change anything about it at all, like how it came to be, like I was discovered straight out of high school. I was moving to Austin from Santa Fe, new Mexico, moving down here to be a struggling college student, right, and my whole life changed. Sure, thank God, i can't imagine my life without it, right. But I will say that I was definitely in mature And there was a big part of me that was not ready for the fame that came with that. I could see that, and Playboy didn't really like explain everything that was going to occur. It's like all of a sudden I was at the mansion and I was shooting my centerfold And the other playmates are asking me, like what month I'm going to be? And they're like oh that's my month. 

Speaker 1: I'm like I don't know. 

Speaker 1: I'm just here, i'm just shooting, oh my gosh, and I think it was probably just only a year into me, right into my layout coming out, and I had a bad attitude. I had a bad attitude when I was like signing autographs and whatnot And I didn't work for two years And they told me they said you better adjust your attitude because you don't understand what you have right here in front of you. And I didn't work for two years. And it was after I was with Michael, my first like really prevalent relationship of a long period of time And you know, one of the most savvy businessmen I've ever known and he taught me everything about business. He was the one that really pushed me. You need to get back on track with them. And then, once I got back in, then I started working Good to have you out. 

Speaker 1: Michael. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker 1: For sure, for sure, started working nonstop. But I always reflect on that and look back and go yeah, i was not prepared for that And I always I had told playmate permissions. I wish y'all would have had like a department where either like older playmates could sit down with like the real young ones, because I was 18. That's a great idea. I was really, i mean, two months out of high school, you know, just to kind of give you an idea of what is about to happen. 

Speaker 2: To you know, help you along the journey, and that makes a lot of sense. It's almost like a 101, you know Playboy 101 type class. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, Playboy 101. 

Speaker 2: You know, the new young ladies, could you know, get experience. So they, can, you know, figure out how to navigate through that crazy world. 

Speaker 2: It is, it's a wild ride. And you know, just like you said, you're 18. And I'm, like God, i was like 24, 25. I'd never been on a plane. I mean my God, i mean I'm, you know, i'm from Austin. I've always been in Austin. I've, like you know, i never left Austin. Here I am being whisked off, you know, by myself. You know, on a plane to. You know, shoot for you know, playboy magazine. 

Speaker 1: And at the time, like wait, like you have an idea, you're like, okay, this is a big deal, right, but you don't really understand. 

Speaker 2: No. 

Speaker 1: I didn't, i did not. I Gravity of what you're stepping in. You're stepping into history. You are a part of history Absolutely. And it wasn't till my mid-20s that I really understood that, and I was at the mansion all the time staying there And I and my favorite thing to do was go into the library and go through the hardbound leather books Yes, from the first issue to whatever issue would come out of that month, mm-hmm. And then I really started going, holy shit, like I'm a part of this Absolutely. This is profound. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, i mean again, i think about the girls that, or the women and the young girls that you know, their lifelong dreams. I've known some, yeah, who, like they, spent thousands of dollars on, you know, you know, on photos in a modeling gigs to get their photos done and sent to buy. Who do I send my photos to? how do I get into Playboy? and I'm like I don't know. I know I was like I, i didn't send in anything. I don't know how this works. I said I'm sorry, i just I went to a casting call and you know I thought it was something that it wasn't and it turned out it was. And you know, here I am on the cover of, you know, a couple magazines and then the You know, going to the mansion and that's and that's ultimately like how it should be. 

Speaker 1: You know, right, i mean, definitely there were. You know. I was like to ask the playmates Did you submit or were you discovered? Hmm, and it's about 50, 50, right, you know, and I'm always like gosh, like that's just. You know, either way, if you submitted or you were discovered and you were approved, it was sure hell, yeah, right, you know, but there were women that that that was their lifelong dream and then they wouldn't, and like I mean, and we meet people all the time that they're like God, that's so amazing, like be a part of that, and it's like, yeah, thank you. 

Speaker 2: No, and it is, and. But you know, going back to what you said about being in art, you know, being young and not realizing, you know how, how fortunate already be part of something so big yeah, and to be part of, you know, history That was. That was a really big deal for both of us. You know, for all of us. And you know I just now I think back and I'm like, wow, You know, and I would not have changed Any part of it and I just you know it was it was our destiny, it was. 

Speaker 2: You know it was, it was. It was a fun, incredible part of my life and I met a lot of really cool Yeah, you know fun, kind, gracious people and learn so much. 

Speaker 1: And I learned a lot exactly, and You know that's really what was all about you know and and just to have the honor and the graces of Hefner and to have that personal interaction with him, oh, and that relationship, i mean, oh, that was always my favorite thing. It's just like he was my god. He was such a sweet heart. He would always so kind, laughing and smiling, and just come up and give you a big hug and kiss, like you know, are you okay? Everything's good, like absolutely. Oh, my god, the best, absolutely. 

Speaker 2: He was Wonderful, wonderful and you know nothing but respect absolutely, he was very respectful, he was very kind, and I mean just a very generous man. I mean he's super. How generous is he opening up his home to hundreds of people To have a good time? you know, i mean the parties were, i mean they were. 

Speaker 1: Amazing and yeah, and on top of the parties, it was like you know we talk about this all the time that you know Heff lived by a schedule and he never swayed from that. So it was like every day of the week It was a, it was a play on. It was like Tuesday nights He spent with the boys, and then Wednesday nights or Monday nights. Tuesday nights was like Manly night, card night, family night, then it would go into the movie nights and like he loved entertaining, he loved having everybody around that's why yeah, that's why he bought that mansion And he speaks about it. 

Speaker 1: Interviews was to be able to entertain and to have people there, and that he did. We definitely enjoyed every minute of being there so You were around then when Holly and the girls came in. I. 

Speaker 2: Was, i was, i was, did you? 

Speaker 1: ever have any in encounters with. 

Speaker 2: I, i did, you know, i Actually met Holly. I mean, she actually came up to me and she was super sweet and she was she always was. 

Speaker 1: She was super. She always loved have so much. That's why it's so baffling that she spends this bizarre narrative now about how exposed and trapped She was. 

Speaker 2: I just Well, i mean, it was. 

Speaker 2: You know it was a brief encounter before I left and you know She, you know she approached me and she said you know, i just wanted to let you know that everyone you know Here at the mansion, you know loves you they love you and yeah, and she was like you know you're always so sweet, you're always so kind to like the staff and you know the security and to you know to us and to have and we just really Enjoy having here at the mansion and I was like thank you so much, i think you're awesome And you know it's just she's very pleasant, you know, and that felt, that felt really good. you know to hear, you know to hear say that because, you know, again, with things that are being said, it just doesn't make sense. 

Speaker 1: Yeah one plus one doesn't right well too, Yeah, I was like what the hell like this is so bizarre? 

Speaker 2: I mean no sense and I get it. Everyone has a narrative and you know. But the times that I spent at the mansion, That's not what you saw, right? 

Speaker 1: Yeah, you saw nothing but love and affinity, absolutely. 

Speaker 2: Huff and for a boy and oh, brand a hundred. 

Speaker 1: She loved her life and right was happy and everyone Trapped and was happy and bad, i don't know. 

Speaker 2: I saw everybody having a great time and laughing, you know. you know, having a good dancing, having a good time. Huff was happy, the girls were happy. 

Speaker 1: You know, well, at the end of the day, you know It's interesting because Holly's the only one that's like spending this narrative, like Kendra swiftly denies it and has even gone so far. Oh, and I quote, i think it was like when I was when Holly published her book, and You know Holly's book was the same narrative as what has been spun with the dark secrets of playboy. Well, you didn't look like you were trapped when that. 

Speaker 2: DICK was up your ass And she's straight up put that out. 

Speaker 1: That is so I was like oh shit, that is so, but Kendra has never, ever once, like been on that bandwagon, has nothing but positive things to say. Bridget as well. I mean Bridget and Holly have a podcast and Bridget has like Consummitly been like nothing but great times and how grateful she was for the experience. So, whatever, yeah, and it is what it is and it really is. That's why we're doing this podcast is. 

Speaker 1: Is it's not for to, you know, speak about Holly or anything, but to share with the world the history of who Hugh Hefner is, as a man, as a human being, as an icon, as a pioneer, what he did for society and culture as a whole and for this collaboration of people, from, you know, playboy mansion staff to executives that were there at the company for decades, which, by the way, and I think I share this with you that last season, everybody we interviewed the minimum amount of time. 

Speaker 1: So he was there was 15 years, the max was 55 years. Now, do you think that these people would stay on board For decades and decades and decades? if Hugh Hefner was this monster that Holly and these other women are claiming that he was number one, number two, if Hugh Hefner was that, don't you think that would have come out Decades before, of course it would have right. So, therefore, thank God that we have this platform, that we get to have these interviews with it, with so many people across the board, whether it was Staff or it was executives or it was very close confidence, friends, playmates. How could it be that we're all saying the same thing, right, yet We're lying? it just doesn't make sense. 

Speaker 2: No, i agree with you and I mean I have to say I, i wasn't, we weren't at the mansion all day, every day. 

Speaker 1: But we were there and we were lost, but we were exactly Right, exactly. 

Speaker 2: So we were there enough to know, because we'll never discount what anyone has to say about their experiences or what they may say have happened or I just don't know, i can't say. But what I can say is that there's someone who is no longer here, who cannot speak for himself Not so where it is part, and that's the unfortunate part. 

Speaker 2: But I can just speak for myself, just as you can speak for yourself, just as everybody speaks for themselves and has the general collective experience Exactly incredible experience In an incredible time, whether it be at the mansion, at the, in their work studios, they're working for the company, working with the photographers being around, the staff being around, hef being around. 

Speaker 1: And personally, we never experienced anything like what we not. Absolutely So that few women are saying. 

Speaker 2: Let me put it this way So my parents? so, even though I was in grad school and I was in my mid twenties at the time, my parents still had a lot to say about what I did and what I could not do. Believe it or not, I was a good girl, And so if my parents thought for one second that I was going someplace where they thought was unsafe they would have, i wouldn't have gone, i wouldn't have had any part of it Absolutely, And my parents are old school and that's just not. 

Speaker 2: That's not Playboy was it, was. That was something that was never thought of as bad. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, and so actually I love that you said that, because last week we had an interview with two butlers, with Bryant and Carlina. Carlina was the first female butler there, beautiful black woman, and she shared the same thing about so she grew up a very religious background. She didn't even know what Playboy was She never heard of the Playboy mansion at all. 

Speaker 1: And when she told and she was really fearful to tell her father because her father was a pastor when she told her father he goes, honey, it's Playboy, you should be proud Absolutely. And I was like there you go. I was like I love that Because he understood like this is, like this is an incredible human being that has done so much for this world. Like whether or not you agree with how Hugh Hefner lived his life, he made a statement and he made progress across the board. Well, he changed the world. 

Speaker 2: He changed the world And how we look at sex. 

Speaker 1: You know And from an objective point of view, it wasn't dirty and it should not be shamed, and it was the beauty in it. And then the journalism aspect of the magazine. I mean just everything about it, everything about the magazine's first class and always has been, which is unfortunate. What the new Playboy has done with it, whatever. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, i don't even want to get into it, i don't even have that. Yeah. 

Speaker 1: With that, men on the cover in the funny suits, whatever. Whoa, that makes no sense. Oh, who's your demographic? Oh my goodness, So all right. So we like to end the show with two questions. Do you have anything that you want to add? by the way, What? 

Speaker 2: you're doing Well, maybe your takeaways. You know what I just well, i do want to thank you for having me on the show Oh, you got it. I've always admired you and your work And I just think you're an amazing woman. Thanks You always. I've always thought that. 

Speaker 1: She's not saying that because she's my friend, because he actually loves me. 

Speaker 2: I do love you. You're an amazing woman And I'm so proud of you. Thank you so much, so proud to still be a part of your life, and you were as well, i mean, i've always looked up to you. I love it, you're brilliant, thank you, and you're amazing And you're real And you're authentic And you don't hold any punches. 

Speaker 1: Absolutely, this is who you are. So I'm super stoked that we were able to do this as well And bring a whole other component to it of the new stand. 

Speaker 2: Oh no, of course. And again to say that I am so grateful and honored to have been a part of the Playboy family. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, amen to that. Amen, because there is not another family out there like that. On April 30th, actually, they're going to have the Playboy Mansion reunion in LA And I'm going to go to that And I can't wait. Fun, that'll be a lot of fun. Yeah, get to see everybody. So OK. So we like to end the show with two questions, and it's always super interesting to see what people say because it kind of runs the gamut. So first question three words that define Hugh Hefner to you. Oh, wow, god. 

Speaker 2: Only get three. Yeah, you only get three. Oh my God, i mean, it was amazing. Genius Icon trailblazer. Hell yeah, Yeah, genius icon trailblazer. 

Speaker 1: Trailblazer For sure. Absolutely Very good. Ok, had you had the opportunity to see Hef before he passed or to say anything to him in memoriam, what would you say? 

Speaker 2: I'm getting all teary eyed. It's a tough question. It's a tough question because he was such a sweet, kind, loving man. I would say thank you for allowing me into your home and for allowing me into the Playboy family. They'll never be another human being like you, ever again. 

Speaker 1: He's one of a kind There will not be. There's no space for somebody like him again in this world. I mean, i'm just right down to the time at which he did it. But that's the general answer. On that second question is people just say thank you And everybody gets teary eyed. 

Speaker 2: It's so many times we've cried And it's like It's just that being in his presence, the few times that I was fortunate enough to meet him and be around him, he just made me feel so damn good. And even after all these years, every time I think about my time at the Manchin or my time with the company, working with the photographers and the assistants and the makeup artist, and being around anyone associated with Playboy makes a smile on my face, makes me so happy to think about, and it's wonderful just to know that I was part of that. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i agree, great memories. Thanks for coming on the show. 

Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it Always a pleasure to spend time with you, absolutely. 

Speaker 1: All right. So since you're also my co-host on this show, we're going to sign off. I'm Echo. 

Speaker 2: I'm Sophronia Williams. 

Speaker 1: And this is the Bunny Chronicles. See you next week. Bye.