THE 1st AMENDMENT LIVES ON - CONVERSATIONS COMMEMORATING HUGH M. HEFNERS LEGACY of FREE SPEECH and FREE SPEECH VALUES

Imagine having exclusive access to Hugh Hefner's personal scrapbooks – a treasure trove of free speech and free press history. Join us as we chat with Stuart Brotman, author of "The First Amendment Lives On: Conversations Commemorating Hugh and Hefner's Legacy of Enduring Free Speech and Free Press Values," who had the extraordinary opportunity to explore Hefner's extensive collection. Stuart shares insights into Hefner's passionate belief in the First Amendment and how it shaped Playboy, particularly through thought-provoking interviews that showcased a marketplace of ideas.

As we celebrate Hefner's legacy, we ponder innovative ways to promote First Amendment education in society. Ideas like reciting the First Amendment before the Star-Spangled Banner at sporting events or displaying it on movie theater screens could spark crucial conversations on the importance of free speech and free press. Additionally, we discuss the HMH Foundation and the First Amendment Awards, which honor those who have fought to defend these vital principles.

By the end of this captivating episode, you'll have a newfound appreciation for Hugh Hefner's dedication to free speech and free press values. Discover how the First Amendment lives on through Stuart Brotman's book and the inspiring work of those who continue to protect and advocate for our fundamental rights. Don't miss out on this fascinating conversation that will leave you inspired and eager to champion the First Amendment in your own life.

We are so very grateful to Stuart Brotman for not only authoring and publishing this incredibly insightful book - but for the time he took out of his busy schedule to sit down with Carrie Yazel and I for this all to important interview. An interview on a topic that remains eternally relevant - particularly in the climate of our times.

Purchase Stuart Brotmans book here:
The 1st Amendment Lives On - Converations Commemorating Hugh M. Hefners Legacy of Free Speech and Free Speech Values


 

Transcript

INTRO: Hi, my name is Corinna Harney, Playboys, Playmate of the Year 1992. And I'm Echo Johnson, miss January 1993. Welcome to the Bunny Chronicles, let's go. 

Welcome back to the show. What's up, miss Carrie Yazel, Carrie is back with us in the studio as my co-host!

CARRIE YAZEL: Echo, i'm very excited about our guest today. 

ECHO JOHNSON: Yes, this is going to be a really good one. What a hot topic. It's so relevant right now. First Amendment, yes, first Amendment. So today we have an extraordinary guest and we are just really so very grateful that Stuart Brotman is here today joining us. Stuart's book The First Amendment Lives On Conversations Commemorating Hugh and Hefner's Legacy of Enduring Free Speech and Free Press Values was published last year on Hefner's birthday, april 9th 2022. A little bit of background on Stuart. Stuart Brotman is the inaugural Howard Distinguished Endowed Professor of Media Management and Law and Beaman Professor of Journalism and Electronic Media at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. He has served in four presidential administrations on a bipartisan basis and is a frequent analyst for leading newspapers and magazines. Welcome to the show, stuart. Thanks for being here. 

STUART BROTMAN: Great to be here with both of you. 

Speaker 1: Thank you. Is there anything you want to add to your background beyond what I just told our audience? 

Speaker 3: No, I think that's probably too much already. 

Speaker 1: That's too much. So I have to say I was doing some additional research last week and or actually, no, it was the link that you had sent me And it was what one Tennessee professor learned from Playboy Founders' scrapbooks And I thought it was really interesting, specifically when you spoke about. So you were granted the unprecedented access to review Hef scraps books And what you found in there was the inner voice and the inner thoughts of the First Amendment that Hefner had, and these are things that had started on his First Amendment journey when he was a 16-year-old in high school. Before we begin, let's talk about how this even came to be, that you were granted access to those scrapbooks, what that looked like, and it was a waiting period of a couple of years before you actually did get the access to those books. So let's talk about that as well. As Kristi Hefner wrote the forward for the book And I know that that was really the way that it did come to be was your relationship with Kristi. So tell us a little bit about that. 

Speaker 3: Yeah Well, it's been a really interesting journey. I had a meeting a while back with a person who turned out to be Hef's personal lawyer And Hef was still alive at that point And we began speaking and I told him that I thought that it would be extraordinary if I could somehow sit down and talk to Hef and really get an idea of his thinking, particularly in the area of the First Amendment. And then this person also mentioned that Hef had collected scrapbooks And that was the first time I really heard of those scrapbooks. And it turned out, as you said, beginning when he was 16, when he was a high school student at Steinmetz High School in Chicago, he began what was pretty common at the time, which was a hobby that people had called scrapbooking, where people would basically, every week or whatever they wanted to, they would cut things out and they would assemble them in scrapbooks. The big difference with Hef, obviously, is that he did it for 75 years. He started when he was 16 and his last scrapbook entry was shortly before he passed away at age 91. 

Speaker 1: Wow Interesting. I didn't know that That's a cool factoid That is. 

Speaker 3: And, of course, he earned the accolades of the Guinness World Records as the single most prolific scrapbooker in history. 

Speaker 1: That's right. 

Speaker 3: He compiled 3,000 scrapbooks over that period of time And apparently what he would do during the week was he would cut out different clippings, things that interested him. They would go into basically an inbox And then every Saturday he would spend a good part of that day scrapbooking, which means he would edit and figure out what he wanted to put in the scrapbook. And then he took out his trusty manual typewriter and he typed captions for different entries in the scrapbooks And throughout those 75 years he used the same typewriter, which is really interesting, because he wanted to have the same font for every scrapbook entry. And then, after Hef passed away, many of his items were put up for auction in Beverly Hills, which I attended, And then magically I got to see that actual typewriter. 

Speaker 3: There's also the small manual red typewriter, and that's how those fonts were developed. And of course this became a big project over time, and so Hef basically had his staff or a number of people work with him, because it was not just a matter of putting it in the scrapbook but making sure that it was secure, and obviously he wanted to keep everything in very pristine condition. And so ultimately as I understand it although both of you would know better but at the Playboy Mansion a library was built so that the scrapbooks could be housed there. Ultimately, as I was told, those 3,000 scrapbooks resided in the Playboy Mansion. So my original plan was to go out and maybe look at the scrapbooks a little bit and then have a sit-down conversation with Hef, and ultimately that did not happen. 

Speaker 3: Hef became very ill. I was not able to do that, but shortly after Hef passed away I received an email from Christie Hefker, his daughter, and Christie had known about my interest in the scrapbooks. We had communicated a little bit prior to Hef passing away And Christie asked me if I'd like to come out to Chicago and have a conversation about the scrapbooks. And I flew out there And at the end of that conversation Christie told me we would love to have you look at them, but the issue we have now is we have absolutely no idea where these scrapbooks are going to go, because under the terms of the mansion, have had sold the mansion and essentially was permitted to live there right, basically all of his life. But then there was a clause in that contract that said that Within 90 days of his passing, the mansion needed to be vacated. 

Speaker 1: Oh, that's. I didn't know that that was a clause in there. I did know that he was. That was the agreement that stay there. Yeah, montopolis agreed and I think he paid like rent of a dollar a year until he would pass. But I didn't know that there was a 90-day stipulation that everything had to be clear out And that's a monumental undertaking. You think about that on top? 

Speaker 2: of all the scrapbooks. 

Speaker 3: Three months would be enough for most houses, but not for the mansion right and that of course included these 3000 scrapbooks, and in fact there was no plan in In terms of what would happen to those scrapbooks when they cleared out the mansion. So, very interestingly, christie sent me a few text pictures of the moving trucks coming to the mansion and loading all of these scrapbooks, and there were literally, you know, racks and racks of scrapbooks going out of the mansion and at that point it was very unclear what was going to happen to them. And so basically, they were moved to Pasadena to a small Secure location, but that was just temporary until they could figure out what to do about that And that. That took about a year and a half. They were in storage, really in a cold storage area, for about a year and a half, and then finally, the Pum hefter foundation, hmh foundation, found a place for the scrapbooks in Hollywood in another secure location, but one that was Basically not just pure storage, but you would have much easier access. 

Speaker 2: Do you everything. They'll be on display anywhere. 

Speaker 3: Well, we'll get to that in a little bit. But no, in fact, i mean they are still in pristine condition. They are set up on bookcases and it's not a very large area and in fact it was not really intended as an area where people are going to go in and look at them. So when I was granted access, they actually brought a desk and put it outside of this area and Basically that was the area where I could remove the scrapbooks and then sit at the desk and Look at them and then bring it back into the storage area. So that's basically the story of how I got to the scrapbooks and, as you said, one of the great pleasures I had was the ability to have unfettered access. And so I flew out to Los Angeles and I spent a full week and when I say a full week the emphasis is on full. Basically it was morning through late evening with the scrapbooks. 

Speaker 3: Ultimately, i could not look at 3000 scrapbooks, so I needed to do some sampling of what was in the scrapbooks. What was useful is that Amanda Warren was the executive director of the HMH Foundation, obviously had worked closely with half. She had prepared A little, not summaries, but almost like a table of contents for each of the scrapbooks. Very good They were. They basically didn't say exactly what was in each scrapbook, but you could get a little feel for them. And then I I reviewed them and then began to dive into the scrapbooks and and Obviously I did not have the benefit of being able to talk to have because half was no longer with us. But I told Christie and the foundation that after I spent time in the scrapbooks I wanted to see if there was something interesting that I might go back to the foundation and Propose as a project that essentially I could pursue based on the scrapbooks. And and lo and behold what I found. 

Speaker 3: There was this rich treasure of Hefts thinking about the First Amendment, about freedom of speech and freedom of the press, and of course that was 75 years of thinking, and so you could begin to see how He revered and thought about the First Amendment, obviously not in a very mature way, but he was on a, he was a editor and editor of a high school newspaper and he was involved in journalism very early on and certainly was thinking about this notion of publishing and Obviously you know what's played by started then. He was a really serious publisher and had to to deal with, you know, commercial and other issues as well. So so what I found there was that heft really had a lifelong, not just passion, but he really had what I call a DNA for the First Amendment. This chart part of who he was, part of what he thought about, and Some of it was reflected in his commercial endeavors in Playboy. Some of it was not, some of them were just things that he thought about and held very dear to his heart. So When I found there is he had really six themes that I sort of summarized him and those are in the introduction of the book as well. 

Speaker 3: So I have was very interested in enhancing political speech. Right, political speech was really important, and that the First Amendment should promote and enhance it. He was very interested in. This obviously was reflected in Playboy magazine. He was interested in stimulating Investigative journalism, like independent journalists, and, as you know, over the years Playboy had some terrific pieces of investigative and independent journalism, and so that was something he not only believed but he ultimately brought into the magazine. Another area which I know both of you know Well is heft's love for movies and cinema, and of course he grew up at a time when Movies were restricted and many people don't remember that, but there is a long and tortured history in the United States of a film censorship way. There were film boards around the country in New York and Chicago and Detroit in number of cities, dallas Which essentially said you need to have us review the films before we allow them to be shown in theaters. 

Speaker 1: Wow, unbelievable. 

Speaker 3: This. This went on for most of the 20th century. So so heff really wanted to make sure that movies could reach audiences without censorship And of course, the good news is, of all of his thoughts and aspirations about the First Amendment, that's the one that has been achieved. I think all of us know that we can now go to a movie theater without worrying that some government official has Looked at that and says you're allowed to have it in there, we're not allowed to have it in there. 

Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, hep was also very interested in college campuses, and again that was somewhat reflected in Playboy, certainly in a lot of the pictorials that were done around the country. But he really was interested in promoting free speech on college campuses And probably was ahead of his time. That was not something that was really talked about very much And obviously in the 1950s that was sort of the silent era of college campuses. During the McCarthy era people really didn't want to talk very much, they were afraid, or they were afraid and they didn't want to be very vocal. But have clearly believed that part of the First Amendment was the ability on college campuses to really have a free speech environment. Another area and I think it goes back to that high school period. 

Speaker 3: Hep was very interested in student journalism, student reporters. He wanted to make sure that those journalists would be protected. And that's been a continuing issue over many years the notion that if you're a high school kid and you want to do a story in your high school newspaper or your radio station guess what The principal is watching or the teachers are watching And if you want to write about something that may embarrass those people or maybe too controversial, then they're going to say we don't want you to publish that. And so obviously that flies in face of having a robust freedom of the press. And so Hep was very interested in protecting the rights And he did a lot of philanthropic work with organizations like the Student Press Law Center, which is a not-for-profit organization that full time defends student journalists when they have these sorts of issues. 

Speaker 3: And then, of course, the last area goes back into readership, and he wanted to make sure that readers and viewers which includes some movie viewers could have an unfettered range of access to printed materials. Again, that dream has somewhat been fulfilled because we have something called the internet And that allows us now to have this unfettered access and certainly helps promote the First Amendment and those goals. So as I look through the scrapbook it wasn't as if all of those popped out But again, looking over 75 years, i could really see how those themes played out in his thinking and some of the entries in the scrapbook. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i mean that is fascinating to have that sort of access to the scrapbooks And I like how you keep saying Hep's inner voice. It's like you really got to know him on a very personal level almost throughout his life by being able to consume that information and do your research through those scrapbooks. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, and what's interesting, as we've talked before, i never met Hep, i had no correspondence with him, i never spoke to him, so I literally learned about him through the scrapbooks and, very strangely, developed a relationship with him, not directly but through obviously going through the scrapbooks And, of course, also getting a very good context from Christie and from Amanda. People had been close with him. 

Speaker 1: Sure, sure, absolutely. You know one of the things that we have discussed and talked about with Karina and I wasn't aware of this initially when you and I had our conversation, and I love that you had brought this up that when conducting these interviews so there's eight interviews in the book, correct? 

Speaker 3: Yes, and I like to call them conversations, and I think this is something you may be getting to, which is how are these structured? 

Speaker 1: Right and you took them in the sort of context of the Playboy interviews and how those were conducted. And for our audience, who may or may not know we have touched on this before that half would advise the staff writers to go and get this interview at no expense, however long it took, And that would sometimes mean that you would be at somebody's home or wherever they chose to conduct the interview. It could be 24 hours, it could be a week, it could be a couple days, but it was get the interview, the objective interview, right, And you tried to simulate that in conducting your conversations with these subjects in the book. 

Speaker 3: Yes, i called an homage beating. I had to sort of teach myself how to do a Playboy interview and obviously, looking at the scrapbooks I could read a number of interviews And the interviews I consider almost an art form because they're not a typical interview, they're not a journalist coming in with 20 questions that they need answers to And it's not really a question answer. It's much more of a conversation, having the person who's being interviewed, or part of the conversation, really open up their head in their heart So you could really understand them as people. And they're just fascinating to read and still are. The first one took place in 1962, miles Davis, and the first person doing that was Alex Haley, who then went on to do roots. And Alex Haley subsequently then did some of the really great interviews with some of our leading African American figures, whether it's Martin Luther King or Malcolm X. 

Speaker 3: But a variety of people were featured in Playboy. 

Speaker 3: What was interesting also about the Playboy interviews is that they embodied have thinking about the First Amendment as a marketplace of ideas. So he wanted a wide range of people to be interviewed for Playboy, even if they didn't agree with him politically or socially or culturally And in fact many people didn't, but he had this incredible range of people. I mean, i have a brief list here. So he had Bob Hope in Clint Eastwood and Jimmy Hoffer, the labor leader, and George Wallace, who was the segregationist governor of Alabama, and Anita Bryant, who was the anti-gay crusader, and Madeline Muriel Hare, who was the head of Atheist for America, and George Lincoln Rockwell, who was the head of the American Nazi Party, and then Jimmy Carter, who, of course, became president, and then Betty Friedan and Germaine Greer and Camille Paglia. So it's just this extraordinary range of people that were able to really express their views in an unfiltered way and in a deep way. So again, it was not just give us a couple of sound bites and we'll put it on the page. 

Speaker 1: Controversy always. I mean he was always considered a controversial figure and whether or not you may or may not agree with him or his lifestyle, you know he lived it the way that he did and that always was conveyed in the journalism and the caliber of journalism that you know was in playboy from the beginning to the end. I mean it speaks for itself. 

Speaker 2: I have a question for Stuart. What do you believe is the most crushing First Amendment issue right now and what do you think HEF would be the most disappointed in? 

Speaker 3: Well, i think it's a cultural issue, not a legal issue. I think, basically, we talk about the First Amendment but we don't live it as a culture. I think one thing that HEF did, obviously, is he changed our culture in so many ways, in the way we thought about sexuality and a variety of different matters, and I don't think we have quite gotten to the point where we have a similar culture where people either understand or revere the First Amendment in that very deep way, in the same way that HEF did and hopefully I do and other people as well. And so I think probably the biggest challenge is we need to have sort of a massive cultural shift so that people do that. 

Speaker 3: And some people say, well, we need to do this through civics education, so when kids go to school they learn about the First Amendment. I think that's part of it. But it's not just a kid issue, it's really a societal issue And we need adults and everyone knowing about the First Amendment. So I've said we really need to begin to think about doing things like when you're at a baseball game or basketball game or a football game, when they say please rise for the Star Spangled Banner, i would love to see them say please rise. And before we sing the Star Spangled Banner, let's all recite the First Amendment. 

Speaker 2: Oh, I like that. Yeah, I love that. 

Speaker 3: Wow, and of course you know, with a jumbo tron you just put it's only 45 words, but you put the 45 words up on the screen And I think that would really give meaning so people would understand why they're singing the Star Spangled Banner And also I think could have be a great tradition And when you think about all of the sports, and of course all of those are being televised. 

Speaker 3: So I think there would be this massive sort of reeducation of people about the First Amendment, just by having that one aspect of it. And then you could do something like when you're in a movie theater before the movie comes on And of course we have the previews and we have the advertisements. But what if it flashed on the screen? You are in this movie theater and able to see any movie because of the First Amendment, and again flash on those 45 words or right before the movie, have someone like Tom Cruise come on and say we were able to make this movie for you to enjoy because of the First Amendment, and you could do that for virtually every movie that comes out. People would find that really interesting to see the people who are in the movies talking about the First Amendment. 

Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more with that. I love that idea. Amazing idea That should be done. Let's get behind that story. Let's make that happen. I mean that really is Who do we write to? Not enough people understand it, know it, live by it or have it in their ingrained DNA. 

Speaker 2: Or just too young to remember that these things were not always possible. Right, right, right. I mean, it's even more. 

Speaker 3: I think part of it is just being able to say the words of the First Amendment over and over. I mean, we all learn the Pledge of Allegiance and we all learn the Star-Spangled Banner and that's become part of our internal system And there's no reason we can't do it for the First Amendment. But it's not just going to be a matter of having this, you know, in grade school or in high school or even in college. I think we need to do this as a society. Yeah, so it's a little different answer than sometimes people when they ask that question, but I'm really quite adamant in terms of saying that we need the cultural shift. And again, i think, going back to Hef, when you look at what Hef did in changing culture, i think he's proved that you can actually change an entire society's culture. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we all know that he changed society and culture as a whole across the board. You know, speaking of movies, one of the standouts of the book was that you included Rick Joule as one of your conversations that you had. Now Rick Joule is the Hugh M Hefner chair for the study of American film and critical studies department at USC in cinematic arts. So did he teach the censorship in film at USC, or was he? 

Speaker 3: Yeah, no, Rick is one of the great scholars of film censorship. 

Speaker 1: Okay, and so it was important to you that he was a part of this. How did, why did you choose Rick? I mean because he was part of the censorship in film and the endowment that Hef had made at USC, or? 

Speaker 3: Well, what I had heard is that Rick had a personal relationship with Hef and I was very interested in why he had a personal relationship with Hef. 

Speaker 3: And then I discovered and of course it's in the book that the personal relationship was quite extensive and deep. So apparently Arthur Knight, who had done the Sex and Cinema series in Playboy, he had taught film censorship at USC And then he stopped doing that and Rick Joule came to USC as a full-time professor and he inherited that film censorship class. He had a colleague named Drew Casper and they both taught together. And so Rick had this idea, given the fact that Arthur Knight had taught previously and given that Arthur had told him how Hef was interested in this area, maybe he should invite Hef for a guest lecture in his class. And so Rick was invited to some event at the Playboy Mansion and he was allowed to bring, i think, five students to the mansion for this event. And he had the idea that would be the time that he would ask Kef in person if he would come and guest lecture to his class. 

Speaker 1: Very cool. 

Speaker 3: And so he met Kef for the first time and he had a little conversation and then asked Kef if he would come and lecture to the class And Kef was very polite. But Kef said no, I'm really not interested in doing that. And Rick was a little crestfallen. He went to his students and told them I just invited Kef and unfortunately he's busy and won't be able to come. And then the students had the idea that maybe they should invite him. So those five students then, i guess, got into a conversation with Kef and said we really would like you to come to our class And Kef said absolutely, i would love to do it. 

Speaker 2: Coming from the college students, of course. I love that He was such a backer of the pre-speech on campus. How could he not back him? 

Speaker 3: That's how Kef wound up doing the first guest lecture for Rick and Drew Casper's class. So he came there and it was the last class of that semester And it turned out to be just an extraordinary moment for the students, not just in terms of learning the history and some of Kef's experiences with that, but Kef basically said we can talk about anything you want to talk about in any area, and I will be completely candid with you. And so it's a very much of a free exchange between the students and Kef. And after that first lecture I think Kef enjoyed it so much And clearly the students gained so much that Rick and Drew said would you like to come back next year? And so he did that for 20 years. 

Speaker 2: I didn't know that. 

Speaker 1: That's amazing Can you imagine being in that classroom. I would love to get access to some of those students that were in there. What was that like to have Hugh Hefner come in? That's amazing Wow. 

Speaker 3: And what was interesting is he did not do that in any visible way, so there were no transcripts or pictures or recordings. He really wanted to do this as a professor would do, which is to come in to class and teach. And that was very interesting because I think, other than the scrapbooks, i probably, and many people, wouldn't even know this took place over that period of time. Every year when Hef went there, he would have a picture of himself outside of the cinema building at USC And he didn't bring a big entourage, assistance or anything, he just basically was standing there in front of the building And then he would walk into the classroom. And what was interesting also that Rick told me, is that Hef was very interested not just in coming to class but what was being taught in the class, and so they would send him the syllabus for the class And he would make suggestions about which films you might want to show. I love that. He was quite involved And after a while they nicknamed him the third professor. 

Speaker 2: Oh, that's great. 

Speaker 1: He's the honorary third professor. I know he got so much joy from doing that. 

Speaker 2: Well, we got so much joy I mean as playmates when we would have Sunday movie night. It was so much fun to see Hef's passion for films, and now I understand even more why. Because he didn't have the kind of access that we're so readily used to, but just the fact that he would sit in his seat, stand up in front of the screen with all of his little friends and family. 

Speaker 2: With his notepad And with his notepad of little notes And he could tell you, give you the background of the actors and the actresses, who was having an affair, who the cinematographer had this happen and all, And you would never know any of these things about the film. They were deep facts and really fun And his passion came through And that was for me that added to this extra level And I think I see films differently now because of that. 

Speaker 1: Totally, Totally agree with that. Yeah, that was fun. 

Speaker 3: And ultimately Hef endowed a chair at USC, and the first holder of that chair was Rick Joule, so that's why he had the title, the Hugh M Hefter Professor at the. University of Lincoln. 

Speaker 2: School Wow. 

Speaker 1: That's fascinating. 

Speaker 2: That's wonderful. 

Speaker 1: So you've been on a pretty rapid tour right Book tour this last year going and promoting the book, and I can only imagine that it is very well received. Tell us about where you've been and what you've been doing. I mean beyond appearances and signings. 

Speaker 3: Well, what's good is the book is not an academic book And so it's designed similar to the Playboy interviews. You can pick up and read it. There are no footnotes and cases and all of that, so I think it's very accessible. Really, i wanted it to be So. I also wanted it to be the type of book that hopefully, five years or 10 years or 20 years from now, people will pick up and still find it to be sort of a rich introduction to the First Amendment, particularly free speech and free press, and it's really done through these conversations with these eight extraordinary individuals. And each of them, other than Rick Joule, was a recipient of an award from the HMH Foundation, which has something called the First Amendment Awards Right Christy Hefner developed and started in 1979. The first award was in 1980. So this has been going on now for 42 years and continues. Every year The First Amendment awards are given out, no longer at the Playboy Mansion, but their new home is at the National Press Club in. 

Speaker 3: Washington, which is very fitting. It's an honor, and so every year there's a very nice event, a dinner, and each of the recipients essentially talks about their First Amendment experiences, and they're very serious people who've gotten it, and what's really interesting about the First Amendment Awards is it's not just famous people. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, are they nominated by other people. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, It's a very extensive process in terms of not only nominations but judges, So there's typically a panel of judges. I think you could probably think of it sort of like the Pulitzer Prizes. 

Speaker 1: Absolutely. I would say that it compares. That's amazing. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, there's really a very rigorous judging process that goes on And I know from Christine from the Foundation not only the judges selected but they then have to devote a certain amount of time to review all of the nominations and all of the works And in some cases the events or the things that are nominated include books, so they have to read all the books. So it's a pretty rigorous process And there's just an extraordinary group of people now about 150 over the years who have been awarded a First Amendment Award from the Foundation And seven of those individuals are in the book. So that is their connection back to the foundation. And what's interesting is virtually none of those people ever had any relationship with Heff. A couple did meet him at the awards because Heff used to come to the awards, but other than Rick Joule, no one had a personal relationship And that's why Rick was so important also to be in the book to get a flavor of what Heff was like, particularly in the area of movie censorship. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. Do we know who received the first award from the HMH Foundation? I've tried to find that and I wasn't able to locate it. 

Speaker 3: Do you know? It's in the book And I can't find it? 

Speaker 1: Oh, it is OK. 

Speaker 3: Yes, i was going to say in the back of the book there is a complete list of all the award winners up until the 2021 awards Wonderful. On the HMH Foundation website they have a complete list And so, obviously, now that the book has been published, for people who want to know about the awards after publication Which will continue you could just go on the website. Okay, and again, sometimes I I spend quite a bit of time talking about The people who've won the awards. many of those are our teachers or librarians or whistleblowers, people essentially, who have their own what I call profiles and courage. they step forward and said We want to defend the First Amendment. 

Speaker 2: So I'm curious. Obviously librarians must be very concerned that Is it their duty to edit? or With protect Um the library? I mean it's obviously it's, uh, it's a threatened. 

Speaker 3: It is. In fact, one of the award winners was not just an individual but the entire American Library Association. Wow, given a First Amendment award by the HMH Foundation, exactly for that reason, recognizing the courage, obviously, of individual librarians but also of that entire group of people who are in charge of libraries, and I think that's an important Accolate that the library association has absolutely. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome that they were that as a whole was given that award Very important. 

Speaker 2: Well, and imagine of all, also teachers, of course. Yeah, there's got to be plenty of teachers that are like no, no, we need to keep this in the curriculum and and Must find it very difficult and possibly lose jobs over it. 

Speaker 3: Absolutely. And You know what? once upon a time we had a number of people who were government whistleblowers And they were fired after revealing things that were going on in government, and one of the people Who got a First Amendment award In fact his name is Tom divine. He's the director of the government accountability project, but he was the person who led Congress to enact the whistleblower protection act. That means if you're a federal employee and you're a whistleblower, now you are protected from being fired, and That took place in 1989, but before that it was quite easy if you Blew the whistle, that you could be shown the door right, and so Some of these individuals really have changed the way that we function as a society. That's a good example of that. 

Speaker 1: You know so. So Christie was the one that started the HMH foundation And you know Christie has so much of of health and have values and fundamental, you know core morals. You know she encompasses that and And it's um, i Forgot where I was just going with this she must be so proud of her father. 

Speaker 2: I mean well, yeah, what is? 

Speaker 1: he's a pioneer in so many ways and I'm just so happy that you need He needs more people to continue his work like that right And that well, okay, and that the HMH foundation stays in place, because I think that was a concern When heff pass is what was gonna happen with this. But but Christie Heffner is Is is on the board, if not the president, or I don't know if Crystal Heffner is on that board too, it's my understanding. But, yeah, but this will continue to go on and I assume you know, even after you know Christie passes, that this is uber, uber Important that this foundation was created This is where I was going and it goes right back again To it is ingrained and was ingrained in Heff's DNA. Yeah, the first amendment rights right. And to have have started that foundation in 1979, you know, and that was, that was a long time ago And they were giving out awards every year since. It's fabulous. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good stuff but, and of course Christie, it was critical to both the project, but she has just a wonderful forward in the book and again talks about her relationship with her father and The passing of the torch in terms of those first amendment values. So the book has this Subtitle which includes legacy, but part of that legacy, literally, is the legacy that was passed on between Heff and his daughter. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. And you see that and in her character and how she, you know, has lived her life and continues to be in service And sits on a lot of different boards and as a staunch advocate. So, thank you, christie, amazing, yeah, absolutely. So the book can be found. Obviously, amazon you can buy the book. I would say is the easiest way to do so? Is it also audible or is that hardback only? 

Speaker 3: No, what was interesting is although obviously I recorded the interviews for purposes of the book, but they were not recorded at the level where they could be Essentially put in audible format They were not done in video either. So getting back again to, i think, heff's first love, which was print, the idea of having these Conversations in print. And it's really interesting to read conversations in print because it's it's different than listening to them, absolutely It's almost like reading a play or a movie script Screenplay. 

Speaker 2: And. 

Speaker 3: I think that's part of the charm of having those interviews exactly In the book, as opposed to just being able to put on some headphones and listening to them. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, there's something to be said for that. The tangible aspect. Like personally me, i don't like the audible books. 

Speaker 2: I don't like holding a book and turning the page and the spell against it. Yeah, totally. 

Speaker 1: So I'm glad that you kept it in that format and continue to. Maybe that dates is, i don't care. 

Speaker 3: I think what's nice about the book is it's not the type of book that you have to pick up and read cover to cover, because it has these eight conversations and read them as you want And you know I always call it a. 

Speaker 3: It's a pretty good be Tweet if if you want to take something and spend an hour reading, or maybe if you're on a plane or doing something for an hour, and Each of those individuals in the book has a really interesting story of how their First Amendment journey took place, and so, again, it's not very dry. In fact, it's quite animated in terms of people really opening up, as I said, their heads in their hearts, talking about the First Amendment. All the people in the book, coincidentally, are in their 60s, 70s and 80s, and so they have essentially a lifetime similar to have in terms of starting early and spending many years thinking about and advocating for the First Amendment, and so it's an interesting period of time, now that they're relatively older in years, for them to be able to reflect on all of this, and I call them the greatest generation of the First Amendment, because these are the people who really have established so much of our thinking in the field. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely Yeah. So I encourage our audience and our listeners to get this book. It's amazing And it is such a relevant topic, specifically right now, in the climate of our times. And just going back to what Stuart was saying at the beginning, I mean I love that idea if we were to recite our First Amendment at the beginning of every huge gathering Because people don't you know, and kids don't know about it. 

Speaker 1: I have my daughter in here with me and you know I'm looking at her and she's 11. It's not something they teach in school. They don't teach Like you go through the Constitution, sure, but is it something that you really hone in and you understand? I don't think so. 

Speaker 2: Well, you can't understand how important it is to protect it if you don't really know it. If you don't understand it Exactly, it can go away if we are not careful. Yeah, exactly. 

Speaker 1: So yes to our audience. Get this book. The First Amendment lives on again. You can find it on Amazon. You can go Barnes, noble bookstores, whatnot. But I definitely encourage you to get this book and read it, and it is a great read. Carrie, you'll have to get yourself a copy. I'm so excited. I'll tell you what Stuart. In return, carrie will send you an autographed picture. It will get her a book. 

Speaker 3: Okay, good. 

Speaker 1: Does that sound like a flat? 

Speaker 2: It's so many notes and so many questions. It's really hard to focus in on it because it really is, i'm afraid, right now of everything that's going on, and knowing the history really helps you to know what you need to do, and I love your idea, stuart. Honestly, that's a fabulous idea. I would think that would catch on wildfire if we could get to start that. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, i hope so. I mean sort of on optimistic note. The title The First Amendment Lives On basically says that we will endure. Obviously we need to be vigilant, we need to continue to talk and advocate and do things to support the First Amendment. But I think I'm relatively optimistic that we are going to continue to revere free speech and free press as part of our society And if we don't, then we really won't have the society that we want. That we want yeah. 

Speaker 2: And we have a little piece of that. I mean, if we didn't have these rights and half-granted has helped to protect these rights we wouldn't be here, we wouldn't be playmates, there would never be a Playboy magazine, all of these things it would certainly be a different world. 

Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine a world without playmates? 

Speaker 2: No, without you after, without playmates, i really don't know what it would look like, but it certainly wouldn't be as much fun Our lives have been drastically different, right? 

Speaker 1: I can't even imagine what it would have been. Do you have any other questions? 

Speaker 2: for Stuart. I mean I could do another hour, it's so. it's super interesting. Thank you, stuart. That is just fascinating And we are so happy to have you. We applaud you. 

Speaker 1: Thank you for writing this book and specifically in the context of taking into consideration the Playboy interviews. Are really like that. You did that when having these conversations. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. I've enjoyed speaking with you And, as I say, we all need to be part of this fight. 

Speaker 1: Yeah. So before we go, we like to ask two questions at the end of the show to our guests. This will be a little different for you because you never had that relationship with Haffner Metham, but I do think that it's still relevant and that you'll have a good answer for us. So first question three words that define Hugh Haffner to you. 

Speaker 3: I'd say passionate, thoughtful And passionate, not just in terms of the First Amendment, but I think everything he did in his life he did with great energy and passion and devotion And clearly that's reflected in the work he did supporting the First Amendment. And he did this, as I said, in a way that was not necessarily always connected to Playboy. He thought about these things outside of Playboy. He thought about them before there was a Playboy And so he was always thinking about this. And the last one, certainly, i would say, is philanthropic He not only supported these ideas, he supported them financially And he did so in many ways without any credit. He didn't want credit. He did a lot of anonymous donations over the years And obviously, i think, really supported the people who in turn were on the front lines of the First Amendment. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely Love that Those are great, those are great words. I had the opportunity to meet half or speak to him before he passed. What would you have said? 

Speaker 3: Well, i'd say thank you. I mean, i think, just an extraordinary. he led an extraordinary life. regardless of how you thought about him as a controversial figure When you look back on the 20th century. I think he was one of the most significant social and cultural figures of the 20th century And certainly he changed the culture. But I think he also was a deep influence on free speech and free press. obviously That's what the book is about, and so I would specifically thank him for all of the work that he did in the areas of supporting the First Amendment. 

Speaker 1: Thank you. That's wonderful. That's the general answer with most of our guests is. Everybody just says just thank you, thank you for including me on this journey, thank you for impacting my life. Thank you, what a ride, yeah, what a ride. We always get teary-eyed. 

Speaker 2: I know It's hard. We love hearing all the positive things and it's so important because not enough is said. You can't talk about him enough. 

Speaker 1: I know. I know We love you and we miss you half all the time. All right, thank you so much, stuart. We really enjoyed this. I'm so grateful for your time, so grateful for the book, and Carrie will get you a headshot, or? 

Speaker 2: whatever. 

Speaker 1: She wants a time for you, and then Karina's sending you one. I'm sending you one, so you're going to be stocked. 

Speaker 3: That's terrific. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much darling Talk soon, bye-bye. Thank you, bye-bye. 

Speaker 1: Yay, that was so good. That's fascinating. Yeah, so again to our audience, make sure you get that book and just go on Amazon or to your local bookstore, whatever suits you best, and by that book. It's an amazing read and it's so very important right now. So, signing off, we'll see you next week with Miss Carrie Azel back in the studio, y'all. 

Speaker 2: Hi Echoo. Thank you, Sorry, I'm Echoo And I thought you were waiting for me to say the end part. No no, no so okay, I'm Echo. And I'm Carrie. 

Speaker 1: And this is The Bunny Chronicles. See you next week. Bye.