CINDY RACKOWITZ - PLAYBOYS CORPORATE VP of PLAYBOY PROMOTIONS WORLDWIDE

Cindy Rackowitz joined Playboy in 1986 and stood at the helm of Playboy Promotions for 16 years, as the Corporate Vice President of Promotions ( all divisions-worldwide ) and as the President of Playmate Promotions & Modeling Agency.

Cindy held a very important position with great significance in the 1st decade she was with Playboy. The role was a tough one and a huge challenge as Playboy entered the nineties and had to build a  “dot com” division with an impressive online presence. It was well executed and challenging with its 40 years of archives but none the less achieved.

 The company needed a New York based Public Relations professional to rebuild its image after Newsweek ran a cover story featuring Hugh Hefner & Carrie Leigh - his long term girlfriend at the time. The Headline Read: The Party’s Over. The Clubs Closed.  
Magazine circulation was dwindling.  All signs of changing times in the 80s. The PR team had to manage communication with multiple constituents as Playboy Enterprises changed its business model. Subscription sales over single copy sales was the primary focus while also aggressively building its entertainment focus into premium cable tv & video. Essentially building its global presence. 

Cindy also had the incredibly task of "managing down" a gigantic staff as the company streamlined its operations. 

In 1988 to 1989 Playboy saw more good news than bad news with a successful 35th anniversary strategy & execution. It was at this conjecture - Christie Hefner was appointed CEO of PEI.

Cindy shares her very fond memories of the nineties when Hef moved relocated her to Los Angeles. "He wanted the image driver under his wing" as Cindy shared.

Today Cindy runs the non-profit foundation she founded:  Fit 4 The Cause provides diverse exercise and nutrition education programs for low-income communities, vulnerable children, at-risk teens and fragile seniors in Ventura, Simi Valley, Conejo Valley and the San Fernando Valley.

Thank you to Cindy for taking the time to go down memory lane with us!

To learn more about Fit for the Cause: Click Here:

Follow Fit 4 The Cause on IG

With Love and Gratitude -

Corinna and Echo

Transcript

[00:00:00] Today we have Cindy Rakowitz joining us. Cindy was the Corporate Vice President of Promotions, All Divisions Worldwide, and the President of Playmate Promotions and Modeling Agency. That's the department that we answered to and Cindy was a big part of, of our life and our career at Playboy Entertainment.

Cindy worked at Playboy from 1986 to 2002 for 16 years. Cindy definitely stepped into a tough role and a tough time at Playboy. But she was the perfect candidate. The company in 1986 needed a New York based public relations professional to rebuild the image after Newsweek ran a cover story [00:01:00] featuring Hef and Carrie Lee.

Carrie Lee was one of Hef's girlfriends of many years. But the title of the magazine, or the headline on the cover of Newsweek was, The Party's Over, The Club's Closed. Yes, the Playboy clubs had closed, the party's over. I don't know about that, but that's what they called it. The magazine circulation was also dwindling and all signs of changing times in the 80s.

The PR team had to manage communication with multiple constituents as Playboy Enterprises changed its business model. Subscription sales over single copy sales was the Was the focal point and, and was the job that Cindy showed up for and she handled it in a massive way. She aggressively built the entertainment focus into premium cable and video, building its global presence, which was a huge, huge era in the history of [00:02:00] Playboy.

And it was all new. It was the era of cable TV, dot com era. Now, that was a very, very difficult thing to do, considering that there was 40 years of archives, 40 years of history. The amount of archives that they had, 40 years, think about that, it was massive. Cindy worked very closely with Christy Heppner in executing an impressive online presence and building the dot com division, and it was a monumental undertaking, and it was done, and it was achieved.

So, at Playboy Enterprises, I, you know, had several positions starting in the New York office of Playboy Enterprises. And what a lot of people don't know is that New York City was a very powerful hub for Playboy Enterprises. People think of Playboy, and they think of Chicago, and they think of Los Angeles.

They don't really remember or understand the presence that they had in New York City. The editorial department, the [00:03:00] fashion department was there, the movie critic was there, we had, you know, a news editor there, we had our, cartoon editor, and our fiction editor, there was a lot of intel, you know, Playboy content intel that took place in New York City, and then you had the advertising sales department, because that's Madison Avenue, so if you're selling pages, You had to have a huge presence in New York City.

So, it's interesting, when I talk about Playboy, they're like, There was a Playboy in New York? Was it the club? And I'm like, No. And I went through my whole thing. And then, what happened was, is, I had to produce Playboy's 35th anniversary event. And we did it at the World Trade Center, which is so sad, because history kind of wiped it out.

But it was such an amalgam of tremendous [00:04:00] personalities. We, one of our guests of honor was Alex Haley, who, you know, wrote the book Roots, because nobody would publish Roots because It was controversial and there was racism, right? But Heff gave Alex Haley a shot and published the first chapter of Roots in Clayboy magazine.

So the whole 35th anniversary, all together, we had People who are in 35th anniversary Playmate, Fauna McLaren, you know, at the time before Trump knew he was going to be president, well, he was there as a guest. It was just, it was just such a different concoction of personalities that made up the history of Playboy magazine.

And it got so much press and it got [00:05:00] this huge feature story in the New York Times, and that's when Hef said, see, that's the kind of PR we want. I want that girl in LA. Yeah. Now, Alex Haley, I want to hear more about Alex Haley. So you met him and obviously worked with him. Now, I want to get to the controversy then just for the audience, because Roots is such a famous book and then turned out to be such an.

Incredible movie and no one would touch what he was doing. Why then, why weren't, weren't, you know, listen, unfortunately, you know, we grew up in a long history, racism. And this is something that Hef was so ahead of his times in, you know, civil rights. So when we talk about [00:06:00] Alex Haley, this is a part of Hef that.

People need to be reminded of a part of a part of his history is I, I believe that he was a copywriter for a greeting cards company. And, you know, when he was a young copywriter, and he left because he felt, you know, that there was discrimination. You know, he felt very, very strongly about equality for all.

And people don't remember that about him. People don't talk about that. I mean, the, the support that he gave to these, you know, communities that always fought for equal rights, Heff really gave it to them and gave it to them big time. Nobody else wanted to publish an excerpt.

It's a pretty incredible Q& A, and that's what was fun about Playboy. I Echo and I are always amazed [00:07:00] thinking about some of these really interesting things. They were controversial at the time, sadly, it, that he would give this platform, like you just said, for people that had no platform, especially people of color in a time where, yeah, where it was, it's so backwards and ridiculous and would give them an on, you know, these wonderful Q and A's and, and open the dialogue and, and help people see in.

And I think that that's pretty, pretty amazing. Yeah, on that topic, I wanted to to tell you, Cindy I think it was just last week, just doing research or whatnot, I found this really amazing site website that is archives of every type of digital media that's ever been out there and the FBI files.

About half, between half and the FBI were on there and so I was able to download it and go through there [00:08:00] and it was so, I mean, fascinating, obviously, that we can actually tangibly like see that and read it and actually see that the correspondence between J. Edgar Hoover and, and half and, Victor Lowndes at that time.

But, you know, from the get go, from the very get go, it was like everybody was up against him, and it was, it was nothing but controversy. But then you see the way he speaks and, and the way he responds, to try to, to engage these people and, and, and right down to, like, he invited Vic and, and, or not Vic, he invited J.

Edgar Hoover into the Playboy club in New York sent a letter with a formal invitation with the key and then said, however, if you'd like to use the media room, you're going to have to have this special keys. You're going to have to talk to the buddy mom. But at the end of the day, it goes right back to the very, very, very beginning of the principles on which [00:09:00] Playboy was founded and, and, and what it really, you know, implemented from the very get go.

And. You know, Hef was, again, very, very ahead of his time. He was not going to let the government or anybody tell him, no, you can't do this or you can't touch on this and you can't touch on that. And, you know, it's It's, it's baffling to me, and we were talking about this before we started recording, Cindy, is that there's so much incredible history out there.

Just about, about Hefner, Hugh Hefner himself, and then Playboy, obviously, and the brand, and the magazine, and the publication. But there was so very, very much that he did for, for our society, for our world as, as we know it today. And it like, that gets pushed down or people are not interested in researching or people not interested in history.

I don't know. But that's been the most fascinating thing for me during this podcast. [00:10:00] And we're like, of course that happened. Of course. Well, what I could, what Heth would say, I could see him talking about it right now because he was very vocal about it, is that because Playboy was so successful, I mean, mind boggling success, you know, buy nudes of Marilyn Monroe, you slap it, you know, in a magazine and you send it out and everybody wants it, what happened was, is because of its success, Everybody wanted to shake Playboy's tree, because then they knew that they would get their point of view out there.

So, we see this in history with the government. You know, we see it with people who wanted to fight and say that Playboy was deemed obscene, when it never was. You know, See all these people that were always trying to, what Hef would say, shake Playboy's tree, you know, and this goes to current times. So now we still see people trying to shake Playboy's tree because when [00:11:00] you have a brand that is so monumentally successful.

At its time, it really was, you know, everybody wants a piece of it. They know if they attack Playboy, they're gonna be afraid. Don't you find it interesting that, because really, you know, just like Marilyn Monroe, there are few icons in, in, in the world, really, few icons. And he was one, just like we, there's a movement that is forgetting.

What he was and painting him as something he wasn't and that's why we think it's so important to hear people like you that that were right there on the forefront of You know things that people don't realize what Hep was doing and You know the brand and we believe this I'm just gonna come out and say it.

I feel like You know, it's one of those things only Hugh Hefner could have done. Not one person could fill his, his shoes. Not one. He, he had the vision. He fueled [00:12:00] that vision. And, you know, sadly, I think as age caught up, and as, as it will with all of us, when the vision goes, the, the vision goes. And I think that it slowly died as he was dying, and then it's dead.

It will never be revived. I believe it with all my heart. It will never be. Revived, there was one Playboy, there was one Hugh Hefner, and it's, it's really sad how someone can take a brand, and I'm sure it happens all the time, but we, we don't talk about it because they're not as prolific and, and historically awesome as Hef, but that, try to take the credit.

Or think that money's going to buy, you know, this, this brand and that it, it doesn't. It doesn't. It, it. Well, he would say if he were alive, these people that we're talking about modern times, they're shaking the playboy tree here. [00:13:00] Oh, if they did 60 years ago, why wouldn't they be doing it today? The sad that he's not alive anymore, so it's kind of like, I'm really sad.

I agree. That was very, it's shaking. I mean, it's, it's not surprising and, and I've actually been really keeping an eye on like Playboy and their SEC filing. I wouldn't be surprised if they're not around for. A couple more years, to be brutally honest, I mean, they're losing money, hand over fist, they're losing their licensing dollars, obviously the publication does not exist, and they're trying to turn it into this all inclusive LGBTQT, you know, for everybody, and, and I'm sorry, but at the end of the day, there was, there was a format that worked.

And, and for somebody to come in and just completely, like, eradicate that because it's the future or whatever, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense at all. I mean, they, they bought [00:14:00] the, the Big Buddy, and now they just sold it. I have a question for you, Cindy. You know, of all of the years... That you were there.

I know this is a tough one because you probably have so many memories But what is something that stands out for you? As far as it's something you felt like This is it this this This is a brand that I am proud to be a part of and, and I want, I wanna hear your some stories, like antidotes of what you've learned and all of those things.

Well, B, wait, wait. Before that, let's ask you this, 'cause this is one of my favorite questions we asked last time. Yes. How did you find the job? Was it that classified? Exactly. And I love her story. We already heard it, but we want our audience to hear it. Yes. Cindy, tell us how you found out. that you were working for Playboy, how you, how you ended up.

So I I was a new mom, you [00:15:00] know, and which gave me a leave of absence from my current job at the time because I was on maternity leave and like, eh, now's a good time for me to sort of read the New York Times and look at the classified ads. I knew I had to work and that my then husband was probably going to be, you know, the home daddy.

at the time. And, you know, so there was an ad in the New York Times that said, publicity manager, no, connected publicity manager needed for number one men's magazine. No, so I was 27 at the time and, you know, I knew what Playboy was, but I never connected that to number one men's magazine. I thought it would be GQ or Esquire, you know, cause I thought Playboy was the nude magazine that my dad had in his walk in closet, you know, walk in closets at that time.[00:16:00] 

And so I wrote a really, really nice cover letter because I had time, you know, I was just a young mom at home with a newborn pretty much. And you know, I, I went out with my baby and I came back and then we had voice. messaging. You know, what was it? Well, you know, you came home to this machine. The answering machine.

Yes, the answering machine. That was what it was. I couldn't remember. And you played back your messages. So I came back, you know, put the baby down. And I said, Hi, we're responding to an ad that, you know, that you showed interest in from the New York Times. This is Playboy. Woo! Woo! This is Playboy. And you know, and then I'm like, oh my god, wow.

And that, [00:17:00] it was so funny, in the next couple of weeks I also got an offer from the New York chapter of the Red Cross to be their publicity manager. Like, am I going to be Barbie Benton or Clara Barton?

And my ex husband said to me, you're really thinking about, like, you really are giving this thought? I mean. You harlot! You harlot! And, you know, so I went for the interview and I talked, you know, to the New York people and the New York staff. And they put me on a couple of phone calls with Los Angeles and Chicago.

And I was offered the job. And at the time it was 42, 000 a year, which was 1986, which was not a bad sell. All right.

God, I, you know, the whole thing is, [00:18:00] sometimes I just had to, like, tap myself to feel, is this real? Especially when Hef really wanted me to come to L. A., when he recognized what my talents were in terms of seeing Playboy as a whole. Not just getting pressed to the New York Post for the TNA, but that I really understood the intelligence and the brains behind the whole editorial content and their history.

And understood how they were always kind of preyed upon because they were controversial and how, as a publicist, I would have to contend with that and You know, handle it. So I had those instincts. And as I mentioned before, you know, the 35th anniversary was a turning point because that's when Hefner was recognized.

Is that the first time you met him in person? I didn't really know him very well in person. I had been to the first playmate of the year [00:19:00] party at the mansion was Donna Edmondson. You know, you know, the 19, I guess, yeah, I started in November, so she was a 1987 playmate of the year. So I met him briefly and the editorial team introduced me to him and said, this is the girl that's running things in New York.

So when I got that story in the New York Times for the 35th anniversary party in 1989, he remembered me because we met a couple of times after the first time I met him. And. He said, Okay, so who got that story in the New York Times and the editorial team said that's Cindy Rakowitz. And he said, Is that the girl with the skinny legs from New York?

He said, I really like her. I want to get her out here because he kept on saying, I need, I don't want a corp person. I want a proactively creative visionary that can [00:20:00] help me tell Playboy's story globally. You know, he didn't want a yes person. He wanted somebody to tell him no when he was wrong, and he knew I had the balls to do that.

Boys wanted me there because he kind of invited me to tell him, No, you can't do this. And I have to tell you, there were several times where I had to remind him of that. Oh, wow. It says a lot about you, Cindy. A lot. A lot. Because he was very picky. I mean, that's one thing we're learning, too. He didn't just put anybody on the team.

There wasn't anybody that, you know, you, the brains, you had everything that he You know, it, like you said, he saw, he saw your talents and your abilities and what you were going to bring to Playboy. You were a huge asset and he, it's, it's really incredible. I'm, I imagine he, you know, appreciated you maybe even more than you [00:21:00] know.

I don't know. I, I would love to hear some of those times when, when things were better with Playboy because of. Your, that's the word I'm gonna use. You're bad. Assery

I'll tell you a story that you're gonna both love because you know, it, it was a very sort of behind the scenes angst and I was still in New York City and I was very, very close with. Sort of the, you know, the gay community and the drag queen community was, if you were involved in that scene at that time in the 80s, you were it, okay?

It was such a movement at that time, and it might seem weird to you, but those are the parties [00:22:00] that every executive wanted to get into. And there was a woman by the name of Suzanne Barsh that was the brain trust behind all of this. She wasn't gay. She she was just a brilliant... Kind of Lady Gaga like kind of character, and she would rally all these queens and, you know, make these events that went until two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning.

And, you know, they would be on stilts with the big white hats and, you know, the big, you know, diamond eyelashes and it was just a very sort of weird, cool time to be a part of that. And being a part of that is what brought Playboy some of the newer men's fashion designer advertisers because that's the community you had to be in to be hip.

And sort of a lot of Playboy's challenges was that it was aging. Because it was started in the fifties and how do you find a [00:23:00] new contemporary for Playboy so that the, you know, the most avant garde advertisers and influencers would want to buy stock, you know, by advertising into the magazine. So what came out of that is doing a drag ball at the Playboy mansion.

I have pictures somewhere and I'll, you know, they're, they're not digital, they're, you know, in my photo albums, but I do have pictures and it was so cool. Pam Anderson was a judge. We had a celebrity judges and we had the newest fashion, the most contemporary fashion designers putting together their interpretation of a bunny look.

How cool. Wow. So, you know, you're bringing a bunch of drag queens to the mansion. But also bringing the best celebrities and, you know, Thierry Mugler is designing his interpretation of a bunny lock. [00:24:00] I mean, it was the hottest. Dolce Gabbana, they had like an S& M bunny lock. Yeah, jumping down. I can't tell you, how successful it was and how much press it got.

But the angst was, is that I was feeling really uncomfortable about having a drag ball at the mansion. And I had to keep on... Assuring him that if you want to get the avant garde New York City, if you want to stop people from criticizing Playboy for being outdated, this is your formula. And I thought there were so many nights that I was fired.

Oh, funny. Yeah, because he knew his audience and he really, he really stuck to his heterosexual males. And, and that's the male form. But I mean really we've talked about that and it and it really had a [00:25:00] huge huge audience for that but he Yeah, he knew how to think outside of the box and and listen to you and it was not easy corrina Okay.

Yes And this is the times before digital phones, but he made sure that I had one of those tower phones and a beeper. I was like a doctor, okay? I could run around without being beeped if half wanted to talk to me in the middle of the night. Can you picture that? Echo. She has her beeper. Why is that so funny with you, Hefner?

Beeping. Hold on. I have to go call. Getting beeped. Hef's beeping me again. Wait, you know, actually that's, that's a really good point, Cindy that you just made about. Of that time of people saying, you know Playboy was dated or out of touch or what, not out of touch, but dated. And you were behind the whole dot [00:26:00] com department.

Huge, huge thing for, for, for, for Playboy to take on, but they were behind the 8 ball on that. So talk about that a little bit, because that was a huge Well, you know, it had, that was another thing that, you know, in those times that I would have to kind of, you know, You know, speak up to have he what was difficult for have to understand.

Difficult to explain to have that creating a website. Is not the same kind of quality as producing a magazine that a website is a cheapskate version of publishing of, you know, it's not a publication. It's not high quality photos where the lighting is perfect and everything is right and he had such control over that before, you know, we went to the dot com phase of our global.

You know, state of being, so we had to really explain to him that this isn't [00:27:00] simply taking a magazine and putting it online. This is tearing it apart and putting it back together in a cheapskate manner. And that took some of us, and I would say probably six of us that he would listen to, years, you know, years to kind of make him feel comfortable.

You know, so, but he finally got it, and the thing that allowed him to get it was the interactivity of it all. When we, you know, would have a dial in sort of, you know, chat with Hath, and he saw that it was in real time, not in delayed time. He that's what made him understand what the world what yes, because one of the one of the very One of the most fascinating things about the magazine and why people loved it so much and they're still emulating it To this day was the interactive he loved that even with the gate Fold and, and the interaction and the, the [00:28:00] finding the bunny head.

And he, you know, I loved that about, even when he did the, the 3d issues. And I think, how many 3d issues were there? I should know that, but. I, I, I don't know that people loved it, but he liked that. So I imagine, yeah, that he saw, that's one of the things that clicked. That makes sense with him. He had the activity to get it.

And one of the first influencers that got him to be interactive, Mark Cuban. The first Playboy chat was produced by Mark Cuban. It's a, it's incredible. Do you guys remember GlamourCon? Yes. I do remember GlamourCon. So it was the first GlamourCon that Playboy was involved in. And that's the first chat with Half Took Playboy.

It's like such a huge undertaking, oh my god. [00:29:00] Did you? Were you? Did you head that up, Cindy? Were you? Another like, oh my god, if I didn't shoot myself at that time, I'm never gonna shoot myself. Yeah. I want to hear your worst nightmare story. We never knew that, but I want to hear like someone that was a nightmare and that you had to put a fire out.

Stories that were nightmares. So I was just on a, I think it was id true crime and they interviewed me about Stacey Arthur, and I wasn't gonna do it because you read my mind. Oh my God. Okay, well, let's, let's, you know what we may as well, we may as well. I, you know. I'll tell you what, I had put that out of my mind, Cindy.

It was so bizarre, and one of the scariest times of my life. Because... That guy, we knew he was crazy that would call into the lines and for the [00:30:00] listeners Stacey Arthur was a Miss January 1991. Stacey Arthur, was a playmate, obviously Miss January and a budding country singer. And we used to, as playmates, one of our jobs, or if you will, it was a brand new thing, it was the 900 lines, where people would call in this one 900 number, talk to your favorite playmate.

And fans loved it, and they would call, and we would talk to different fans. Well, they weren't allowed to talk about anything sexual. You had an operator listening. Every, there were a lot of measures in place, and you have to remember, this is before social media. It's before, you know, we'd, it's cell phones.

We didn't have a cell phone. It, it was, it, it, so we have these special big phones. I remember they sent us these phones [00:31:00] and there was a thing to rest your shoulder on and it was extra money for the girls. And it was fun to talk to the fans and engage. And it also, if you wanted to further your career in, you know, business or whatever, you had people that you could talk to.

So. That said, one man used to call in all the time and we all started realizing this guy's not right. He wasn't right in the head, and he even sent me, I, I have it somewhere because I brought it with me for that show that I'm gonna be on, and it, I can't wait to hear what Cindy has to say about it and her memories of it because for me, I was rooming with Stacey Arthur, she had a, a husband who, I never met them in my life, and you know, you'd, you'd, you'd be bunking with playmates, in the, you know, it was when Hugh Hefner and Kimberly were married, So it was the family home, and then we would stay in the [00:32:00] bungalows if we were doing photo shoots, video, you know, the new, the new playmate, whatever.

So I was sleeping in a bed right next to Stacy, and her husband called me and said, Please take care of Stacy. And I'm thinking, why is he saying this to me? I told the FBI this. I told them all the truth of my side, because I can't wait to hear what Cindy, because I was with her. So then she would say, I mean, he would call and he wrote me a poem and sent me a rose and said, you know, I have the poem somewhere, but it says, I kept all this stuff because it was so bizarre.

It was so bizarre. I can't, it was just odd. So he said, don't let her drink with her medicines. And she would open this drawer and had all these meds. And I had never seen anyone take prescription drugs at that age. I'm [00:33:00] 20 years old. I'm like, I don't take drugs. And I'm looking at this and Hef was against drugs.

And we need to get that out too, because there's rumors going around that he, no, you know, there might've been a time in the seventies, that time passed and, and he was not going to allow. The FBI to have anything, no drugs. So I'm looking and it was prescription meds, so it wasn't illegal. And I'm looking in this drawer going, how did, why did she take so many things?

So he says, don't let her drink with her meds. Well, I'm not her keeper. I'm doing my photo shoots in the morning. Well, she had a bottle of champagne that night and tells me she's going to meet with this guy. The, the guy that's crazy. I said, what are you doing? For one thing, your husband said, don't drink with your medicine.

I said, and another thing, we're not supposed to meet with these guys and you're not supposed to leave the mansion. So I don't know the whole story. Did she meet up with them? I don't know, but I know that. [00:34:00] She met up with the butler and the security guard and met up with a bunch of guys Because I had the FBI at the foot of my bed that that morning the next night and I'm like what's going on?

And there's the FBI and they said When's the last time you saw Stacy Arthur and I'm like, what is she? Okay. I thought she was dead I thought she met with the guy and she's dead. That was the first thing in my head Then they proceeded to they couldn't give me information. I didn't find out till she went On hard copy and I, you know, I had just found out I got playmated the year long story short, she, she, she claimed that the butlers and security raped her and she was, she was trying to get 70 million.

Claim they raped her. Well, we know. We know. I know in my heart. I know in my heart. Those guys, they wouldn't be working there. You're not even [00:35:00] allowed to talk. You're fraternize with you. I'm sure. I don't know. She probably drugged them. I don't know. I hate to say that. I don't know. You're part one because you were bunking with her.

I'm part, so I was in between the FBI showing up in your room and the incident. Okay. So, I got a call that night, I was still in New York City, you know, asking me questions about, you know, about this incident, and I believe it was the Wall Street Journal that called me for, like, all these press calls were coming into my home because everybody knew I was a girl to contact if there was news, okay?

Asking me questions about a rape at the mansion. [00:36:00] So, I found out, I, you know, I got on the phone with corporate security, and I found out that the FBI was already there doing an investigation. So, before the time that they showed up, you know, at, you know, in, you know, in your realm, a lot of things happened at the mansion.

And I remember the chronological events because I had to document them. Both with the FBI and with the press and what we found out was is that because he was married to Kimberly at the time when Stacey claimed that she was raped, Kimberly called, you know, the police for an investigation immediately and you know, and had her medically examined.

So, she did have her medically examined. Kimberly was the biggest hero in this incident because Kimberly did... Okay, I'm gonna already [00:37:00] tell you that the show I was on, they said he wasn't. She, they said that she refused to be medically examined, that Kimberly wanted her to and she wouldn't. Well, what, so, what I will tell you is what the police investigation and the DA's office concluded.

So, the he said, she said, you know, becomes sort of irrelevant because this is the conclusion of the investigation. What Heff did was right, and what Kimberly did was right. They brought in the authority. There was no question. Appointment, it was rape, the authority. They were concerned about her. Exactly. The conclusion of the investigation was, is that there, it was consensual sex because rape shows a different kind of tissue.

You know, and [00:38:00] basically it was concluded that she invited these people in the jacuzzi to have sex with her. So then the press asked me, well, Then why were, you know, the waitstaff fired? Why were the butlers fired? So they weren't fired for having the consensual sex. They were fired for having consensual sex on company time.

Thank you. Yeah, Hef was, Hef said no. I remember, you know, they would be, I remember the butlers. It was so funny. Kevin, I can't wait to have Kevin on. I remember them, they're like, they knew, they obeyed the rules too, like, you know, but what guy's fantasy, that was probably all of their secret, you know, I, and, and they're human, they're human, but, but still, so, so then the story gets worse, Echo.

So then, I mean, that happened, but right after that. I don't know how long after Cindy will have probably the [00:39:00] timeline better than I do. That fan that she told me that night she was going to meet up with, which I don't know, maybe, I don't know if she did, I, he traveled three days from California by train to Ohio, ended up shooting her, Stacy's husband, and killing himself.

And he had a plane t train ticket back. So it, it's just all awful. And, and so for me, as a 20 year old, I get a phone call for one thing that I have Playmate of the Year, or I'm so excited, just find this out. And then I remember, cause Cindy, you were there, Bill, everyone, you guys were all, you had the, you know, the, the meeting and then called me and said, you know, we've decided that you're our 1992 Playmate of the Year.

That's so exciting for me. I'm like, my gosh, it was the best. And right after that on the television, on one of the most popular [00:40:00] shows of the time, I think she went on, you know, in her, I don't remember, yes, she. She didn't say my husband was murdered. She didn't even... She was like... I find it odd that my roommate got playmated the Playmate of the Year.

And I remember being kind of like... It was so odd. It was so sad and, and it's all sad. I think the whole thing is so tragic and so sad. But what in the world? And then, so you were putting that fire out, Cindy? That was one of the, that was one of the biggest fires. If you look online, you'll probably see me quoted in USA Today and the Wall Street Journal in Playboy's Defense with all the documentation and the chronology.

'cause I was working directly with the D. With the DA's office, because I can't talk to the press without, I didn't want to fudge up the investigation in any way. I was, we were all in coordination. I didn't get any sleep that night, so I was with you. You [00:41:00] know, even though I was in New York, I, I really didn't get any sleep.

But, you know, we were working with the DA's office. I took it so seriously. People don't know is that he cooperate. He didn't only cooperate with the authorities. He invited the he told the authorities, please come over. We had a incident. I believe it might, you know, there might be I've been a crime come investigate it.

And then it wasn't a crime at all. She just had champagne in the in the grotto and invited. You know, the butlers have sex with her. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I forgot, Karina. Gordon, you know, player, you I'm sound asleep! You know, it's funny, not to make it a joke, but I'm sound asleep! I'm like, I need my beauty rest.

I'm gonna be working tomorrow. No, I'm not going to drink champagne with you. I remember her with that bottle. And then the FBI, I'm like, my gosh, no idea all that's going down, you know? That's crazy. [00:42:00] Life. Oh my gosh. But I'm, I'm sorry, Cindy. No, no, it was. But again, it's an example of how Haft always prevailed on, you know, the very, you know, the good side of life and really taking care of anybody that was involved with the brand and not exploiting them at all.

Just really looking out for their well being and this is a, you know, this is a story that demonstrates and reinforces that. Yes, he got the FBI involved immediately. He didn't dispute what she was saying. They wanted to know how they can help her, how horrible and yeah, it, yeah. It was a very, it was a, you know, but we, We, our PR machine, this is where PR worked very, very closely with the authorities and law enforcement.

And that was probably one of the most exciting parts of the job, because we were hand in hand [00:43:00] with the authorities and law enforcement. Law enforcement loved Playboy, and law enforcement knew that Playboy was not breaking the law. Yeah, yeah, all the security, I always felt, I always say this, I felt some of the safest I've ever felt was working for Playboy.

And I learned that the hard, you know, just because I was so young when I posed for the magazine and then was on tour doing my Playmate of the Year tour, I, I was very protected. So when I, when I went and did other things, I, it, I'll tell you what, it's, it's, I just realized we're protected. We're, and, and, and I, I feel like never felt with the speediness that I did when I worked for someone else, if I was doing anything like a convention or, you know, the modeling aspect of things, when I would go model [00:44:00] somewhere else.

It was awful. I remember thinking, ew, what is wrong with these people? I mean, HEP was very protective. There's really still a lot to talk about. I think we could have you on again and again. There's so much to talk about. This was such a good interview and, and, and why we need sponsorship because we need to be in the studio.

I wanted to kind of close out with. With talking about what Cindy's doing now and with her underprivileged, I, I, it's a whole thing she's loving doing. So let's just let her tell you about it. I'm going to take you into my studio for a second. So you'll get an idea. So you're getting an inside look at the Fit for the Cause studio.

See behind me. The, the fit for the cause logo, this is where I [00:45:00] teach people that can't get to the gym via zoom, you know, yoga, Zumba, cardio, kickboxing, strength training, but we have contracts with hospitals, public schools, assisted living facilities. And we provide no charge to the participant, you know, licensed fitness programs to keep people healthy and nutrition programs.

We serve 2000 people and, you know, I have to say the connection is because there's always a connection is I'm following have smart. I mean, you can't start up something like this unless you have passion, vision, you know, the wherewithal to work hard all hours. You know. I think balance in your life is overrated.

I think all of us really value work and that all comes from hell. You know, if you work hard, the playing comes and it is such a [00:46:00] privilege to serve 2000 people. So many of them with special needs that can't go to a gym, who are really enjoying the Zumba and the yoga and the, you know, the boxing and the...

Well, thank you for what you do. That is so awesome. Now, I'm going to go ahead and ask three... Let's ask her about the three... The three things that describe Hugh Hefner that you think of him. That you wish you could have said to him. You know, in his passing. Visionary, ultra creative, really. And, look, there's so many things about him, that's why I'm thinking hard. Brilliant. Really brilliant.[00:47:00] 

I love it. And this is from a woman that, that's a woman's woman. Yeah, a woman's woman.

I would say, I, I am so blessed to have learned what I learned from you and to have the privilege To work side by side with you and even be on in bed with you without sleeping with you.

That's awesome. Oh, that's another. I love it. I love it, Cindy. Oh, my gosh. And it's true. Oh, wow. It's been so fun. Just in your face. Listen, anything you need from me, just let me know. I want you girls to succeed. I said to Echo before that. I think the climate when we have hostile people shaking [00:48:00] trees

For the other side, the real side of Playboy, and I hope that you guys continue to tell the story. Yeah, we keep saying we, you know, as Americans, because we are Americans, there would be no Hugh Hefner without America. We need to be united and stop being divided. I, I'm tired of the blame and complain. We all have to come together and Hef had a way of, of bringing people on both sides and thinking, thinking, instead of Emoting and just, I don't like that.

So I don't like you. He was able, so that's, that's been our message. Echo and I, we love our first amendment as Hef did. And it's got to stop. We've got to love, we've got to unite and, and, and, and think and not, not blame and complain, do something, ask not what you can do for your country. [00:49:00] I know, ask not what your country can do for you, but what you're, you can do for your country.

No, this is really important. I, I think what have, he couldn't live in this time because what we lost was effect of the intellectual debate.

It took a loss of honor and integrity and dignity. And that's something he had. I mean, yeah, he had integrity. So, I mean, the intellectual debate, we can disagree on things. We don't have to kill each other. No. And you, you know. You can still love each other even. I, I have friends we have completely different views.

I don't hate them. I, you know, I don't, I'm not going to not listen to them. I'm going to be open to ideas. That's, that's what we need to do is be open and listen and really hear each other. And respect each other. Yes. Yeah. So, again, I'm here for you guys. I'm just a text away as you know. Well, we're [00:50:00] grateful that you came on and, and shared your stories and, and we just love you and thank you so much.

Okay. Both so much. So much love. Thank you so much.