Stop. Sit. Surrogate.
A mother and daughter podcast educating others on surrogacy from a surrogates point of view. And the point of view from the intended parents, children born from surrogacy, the agency, legal professionals and IVF doctors for the science behind it all. Together we have brought 8 beautiful children into this world and it’s been an insane rollercoaster ride! Good and bad, the sweet and the sour, all coming to light about the truths behind the best and worst surrogacy journeys. Stop. Sit. Surrogate. Is a podcast that is able to give well rounded information about surrogacy from every point of view. We hope to give as much education as we can provide, to those who want to learn and know more about surrogacy.
Stop. Sit. Surrogate.
Beyond Compensation: The Soul of Surrogacy Work
#surrogacy
#ivf
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US Surrogacy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/us_surrogacy?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
What happens when personal struggle transforms into professional purpose? Dawn Baker, founder and CEO of US Surrogacy LLC, takes us behind the scenes of her remarkable journey from experiencing secondary infertility in her twenties to building an ethical surrogacy agency that has helped create nearly 400 families from 21 different countries.
Dawn's perspective is uniquely powerful - she understands the heartache of fertility challenges firsthand while bringing 11+ years of agency leadership to the conversation. She shares candidly about the delicate art of matching surrogates with intended parents, revealing a thoughtful approach that prioritizes compatibility over convenience. Rather than simply matching based on waiting time, Dawn's team carefully considers communication styles, expectations, and even who should see whose profile first to protect everyone's emotional wellbeing.
The conversation tackles the false dichotomy between compensated and altruistic surrogacy, with Dawn eloquently explaining how both motivations coexist in successful journeys. "You deserve the moon. You don't ever get paid what you're worth," she tells surrogates, while acknowledging financial realities for most intended parents. Her approach to benefits packages demonstrates remarkable transparency, encouraging surrogates to review and request changes before finalizing matches.
Most fascinating is Dawn's insight into international surrogacy dynamics and how current U.S. regulatory challenges are reshaping global family-building options. She discusses the careful development of ethical programs in other countries while emphasizing the importance of maintaining stringent standards wherever surrogacy takes place.
Whether you're considering surrogacy, are a current surrogate, or simply curious about how families are built across borders, this episode offers a masterclass in ethical third-party reproduction. Connect with Dawn's wealth of knowledge at US-Surrogacy.com to learn more about creating families with both heart and integrity.
Have questions or stories to share? Reach out to us on Instagram @stop.sit.surrogate or email stop.sit.surrogate@gmail.com.
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Welcome. We are a mother-daughter podcast about all things surrogacy. Together, we have brought eight beautiful babies into this world and we would like to share, through education and knowledge about surrogacy with those who want to educate themselves on the topic. This is Stop Sit Surrogate. Hey everyone, welcome back to Stop Sit Surrogate.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, welcome back to Stop Sit Surrogate with Kennedy and Ellen. We are here today with a lovely guest. We're going to let her introduce herself, go ahead and take it away Great.
Speaker 3:My name is Dawn Baker. I am the founder and CEO of US Surrogacy LLC and we are in our 11th year of agency ownership and pushing 400 babies from 21 countries, including oh my God, yeah, so I I still pinch myself and kind of wonder how how I got got here. But yeah, we're midsize I think I would say midsize agency and I'm working with surrogates throughout the U? S and anywhere that's safe uh, which is getting harder to find um for for surrogates here in the U S. Did you say?
Speaker 1:21 countries.
Speaker 2:That's hard to navigate. All of that, I'm impressed.
Speaker 3:So I mean I've got some countries I work in more than other locations, but over the years, yeah, we've had parents in the Congo, you know, just some unusual places, fiji Islands and things. So I didn't think we had that many. And then at one point someone on my team said you know, I wonder how many. So we counted the countries and we're really really surprised. So, yeah, one-offs, but the majority of the places I work, you know, are pretty much throughout Europe and Middle East and Asia, things like that kind of where you'll find a lot of secrecy happening already in this country.
Speaker 2:Okay, so so the big question, or the main one like how did you get into owning an agency?
Speaker 3:It was really by happenstance and um, you know, um, I had a mutual, I had a friend who knew, knew someone who'd been a surrogate before and was in the process of starting their own agency. They'd been a surrogate more than once and, um, I actually had been flipping houses with my, with my sister-in-law, so I had a bit of investment available and she was looking to grow. Right, she started already, but she was looking to grow. So I kind of stepped into that as an investor and hadn't really spent a lot of time thinking about surrogacy and what that really was. It was like almost 14 years ago. Now that I can't be true. I guess maybe, yeah, 13 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so I came in just from the financial side and started to really see what this process can do for families and how that can change the surrogate's life, parents life, of course. And then it stirred up a lot of old memories from my mid-20s when I actually was a fertility patient myself and my husband and I had a child right on schedule. When you're like 23, I think, we're like let's have a baby, you know, and it was no problem. And then right after that we tried to conceive again and it was almost five years of infertility and medication. Undiagnosed secondary infertility was my diagnosis. And really stepping into the world of third party started to sort of bring back those memories. It'd been a long time, it'd been, you know, a few decades. So I really started to feel passionate about the work that we were doing and I wanted to be more involved.
Speaker 3:And after about a year my business partner and I decided we weren't really a good fit for each other and we ended up parting ways. So then I started just doing concierge for a while. I'm helping families that were coming to the U? S that didn't have an agency. That was sort of a full support. It was like, okay, well, once the baby's born. We're sort of done. And I realized there was this missing part for for families and for surrogates too, really that after the delivery, where does that leave everybody? So I started doing concierge level post-delivery care for parents at that time and then eventually one of those parents that I was helping post-delivery said do you think you can find a surrogate for my friend? And I did, and then it's just started from there. So at that point then I started my agency. I'm a Nevada-based agency but I work with surrogates all over the US, depending on their state, of course. But yeah, so it kind of lit that fire. And now, all these years later, what I see is the surrogates that go through this journey have that kind of same experience. They want to stay connected. They want to stay involved. A lot of our surrogates are like how do I work for your agency? Like how do I I'm sure you get this too how do I get my foot in the door Right? And I think once you're a surrogate that's when that's what I'm seeing happening is it changes something fundamentally within these women that connects them to this process, maybe for the rest of their life.
Speaker 3:And that's kind of what this little bit of window I had with this other agency startup sort of did for me. It kind of got seeped into my blood and brought up memories and feelings of what that was like to want to have another child and have people say you know, you have one already, what's the big deal? Why are you going through all of this? You should be grateful for the child you have and then getting some fertility care, but not much. I was, my husband was active duty military and just no support there. And then getting out of the military, no support from my provider, and that's really a difficult place to be in, to have that big desire in your heart and be treated like you're less than um, and that it's really not a big deal and you should kind of get over it. Uh, and so for me that's my, my walk and my experience and I never compare myself to actual intended parents who have to have a surrogate.
Speaker 3:But what it did for me was to make me appreciate these women willing to do that and I know fundamentally that it's not the same and I didn't need a surrogate but I could have, and that was a time where surrogacy was relatively new, um, it was sort of science fiction and it was way out of range, as it is now, for many, many people.
Speaker 3:So I don't know that that would have ever been an option that I would be allowed to to do or or to be able to achieve that having the rest of my children that I eventually had, um, but I think surrogates that are willing to do this are incredible people and I'm so, so grateful that they're willing, because I could have needed that and it would have been out of reach for me in many, many ways, and because of women, like both of you actually and they're willing to do that. Um, it opens up opportunities for family building that I wouldn't have had, and so I love being a part of that. So, yeah, I mean 11 and a half years in of my own agency ownership and a year and a half being part owner of a different agency before that, and I am in shock regularly at the job that I have and you must both be as well Like, how is this our work, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of our work, but we don't get paid for it.
Speaker 3:The work of heart. Right, it's hard work. Maybe it's not your job, but it is hard work and that's the level of education that you try to do for families.
Speaker 2:That's really cool that you have that perspective.
Speaker 1:It really is, yeah, cause you also have this perspective, a partial perspective of intended parents, where you understand that desire, Whereas a lot of surrogates like we can empathize with it. Right, but we, we, we don't.
Speaker 3:We never firsthand experienced most, most of the time we actually do have a surrogate who's had her own infertility journey in some way, especially male factor right fertility is a much bigger issue now and then it's ever been before as far as what we know right right um, we have actually had surrogates who have been IVF patients themselves and then have their families and complete their families through their own IVF and then realize I you know. I've overcome this, and now I can help another family that's going through what they did.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, male factor, infertility and some other, some other things that don't disqualify someone from becoming a surrogate, because maybe it's a um, it's a, it's a an ovary issue or whatever that but, still they have a healthy yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is so cool. I don't know why I thought that if, like if someone, if, like I had, if I needed to do IVF for me, then I wouldn't. I just thought I wouldn't qualify like to be a surrogate, but it really is no different because I'd be doing IVF.
Speaker 3:You were your own surrogate. Yeah, yeah, created embryos outside the womb and then carried.
Speaker 2:My tubes were tied and I went on to do surrogacy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you know the whole ovary portion of that, like we're going to silence those anyway, like, so it doesn't really matter if your kids are tied or if you have egg quality issues or whatever. Yeah, wow, yeah Do you have a question.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:Go, go, oh, okay, okay, I want to. I want to back it just for a minute, so you had so, cause I'm still fascinated by the 21 countries. I think that's wild and awesome. So you said that you do a lot in Europe, which doesn't shock me at all, but are you also working with surrogates in these other countries, or is it just okay?
Speaker 3:No, I haven't. I haven't worked with any surrogates to date. Anyway, I said there gets out of the country. I haven't done cross-border where you're moving women back and forth across borders. I feel a certain kind of way about that.
Speaker 2:I don't know what the future?
Speaker 3:yeah, we really watch how things are unfolded in the us um, but I have not um all of our surrogates so far in the united states and it's you know the system that you're used to seeing parents come to a clinic here. They create ambrose, they go home. Surrogate has transferred, they come Sometimes. We love it when they come for the anatomy scan around 20 weeks of that.
Speaker 3:But the reality is that not all international and actually domestic parents too, aren't always able to travel. They're saving money and days off so that they have those resources available to them when it's time for delivery. So then we expect them to come two weeks before the due date. They're typically here three weeks after getting documents in order and things like that. If they're domestic, the timeline's a little bit shorter than if they get their direct flight and things like that.
Speaker 3:But yeah, you know, for for the international families, their surrogates are all here. I have been looking at Mexico as an option, not moving surrogates across the border but surrogates in Mexico doing a full program with a vetted clinic in Mexico.
Speaker 3:And so we are looking at that and more agencies are looking into options outside of the US. Again, I really hope no one's moving surrogates across borders Right, that's tricky, but full programs in those countries that are set up in a way that we've kind of copied every ethical option that we have available. It's not always going to translate culturally Right Right To those other countries and it takes a long time to find providers and have US-based clinics, those clinics there and all of that kind of stuff. But I'm sure you're watching it happen. It's all over, you know social media and the blogs and the Facebook groups and all these things Because of some of the issues we're having here.
Speaker 3:You know it really was just a financial matter why parents were going outside of the US to do their journeys because of rising costs for the whole entire program here in the US.
Speaker 3:But it was still and still is really. But it was clear that it was still a better option because you had some safeguards right as far as the process for returning home with your children and things like that. And as right now we're in the middle of sort of watching that deteriorate, we don't know what the future holds. It's changing right now, every day, those sort of drive like okay, well, it's financially more expensive, but you have this benefit of clear laws in place that protect the surrogate and the parent. And then there's a clear path for a birth certificate and a passport to get your child home. And as we're watching those issues that are going on in real time now, we're losing some of that shininess of the US-based programs. So these other programs are starting to develop at a quicker rate, not to say that they're good or bad, but those things are happening. And so, really for surrogates, please don't leave the country and go to some other country to do it Right, and and that shouldn't be happening, but families are looking at all their options now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, and that's very yeah. I don't want to say it's sad to hear but in a way it's sad because it's I mean it's great right that there are other options to say it's sad to hear but in a way it's sad because it's I mean it's great right that there are other options and that it's becoming more feasible and and it's safe in some other parts of the countries, but it's just sad to hear that the us isn't the oh yeah, like surrogacy friendly like we it's the best Right, especially California.
Speaker 3:We used to be the gold standard, but it was you know. Then we started looking at um liens, so insurance sort of kill California. And then on top of that the rising cost of surrogates in California. Um, and then surrogates throughout the U? S have a good argument Like, well, why is the surrogates throughout the US have a good argument like, why is a surrogate in California sort of worth a higher compensation than I am in like Oregon or Wisconsin or somewhere?
Speaker 3:and that's a valid point, but there are some significant differences, and a lot of that is just in what the IPs are wanting and looking for and also in the statutes that are in place in California that aren't in place in other other states States.
Speaker 3:So, um, it's a, it's an interesting time in our field right now as we watch all of these changes happening and what will stick and what won't. Um, but you know when, when you're working international family building, you have to sort of keep your finger on the pulse of that all the time. So this is nothing new. We've been worrying about and watching it for several years, actually since our last round with the same administration, right, and so it's nothing that's sort of shocking. It's just so. It's just coming sort of to fruition now.
Speaker 3:And so the address is not a theory anymore. It's actually happening, so yeah. So it's interesting to think about international families and what that means for them. Right Right Security is hanging in the balance right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they're there, they need answers. They have great questions and we don't actually have any concrete answers right now because it's just so rapidly yeah oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:But you know, it's what the heart wants, yeah, and I fully believe that families will press forward and find a way to create to, you know, have their children, create their children. Right, because of that desire of the heart is so strong. And what I say to parents and surrogates when they ask me, like, how do we know if the parent's going to be able to come and take their baby? And things like that is these are the questions that were often asked. You know, 40, 45 years ago, right, there was a first. There was a family that went first. There was a gay family that went first. There was an international family that went first in the United States. Right, and those trusted professionals that we work with are the attorneys that we all rely on, the agencies who have, you know, 40, 45 years of experience. We all rely on each other to navigate that pathway through that obstacle. We did it in 2020, for.
Speaker 3:COVID when the travel ban happened in COVID, we were getting families home without a, even without a birth certificate, right With a certificate of birth from the hospital and their court order and things like that. We were being able to, you know, move, move children back home with their families, and it took some time and all of us working as a team in the community to figure out how to do that. And I don't think that this will be any different in my body. The human heart wants what it wants, and those of us who feel impassioned about bodily autonomy which is a big issue now, about citizenship rights and all of that we'll navigate it the best we can and find a safe path forward, like they have for 45 years. So you know, we'll see what shakes out.
Speaker 2:But in 21 countries all with their different reasons why the parents and so, with all of that, those different things that we're having to navigate and agencies are having to kind of pivot, and I mean maybe that goes without saying, but that increases the cost, correct? Because there's so much more having to happen and maybe more people involved.
Speaker 3:I think we're going to have to see that what that's going to look like. I know in COVID 2020 time period, attorneys were sort of offering their extra services oh, you need this extra document, you need FedEx and these things and as an agency, we partnered up with the attorneys that we had, which is why having experienced attorneys, especially with international family building, is so, so important, because they, they all rallied, like everybody kind of really rallied and looked outward to our governmental resources and I mean, no stone was unturned like anybody had a friend in this department and you know and and everybody worked to do that, you know, during that time.
Speaker 3:So there wasn't a lot of added costs. Costs were added when we were started looking at we need a power of attorney because the parents can't be at the hospital, they can't get a flight, you know, things like that. So there were some costs, but for the most part the agencies that are colleagues of mine that I know and trust, other agency owner friends that I have and the attorneys that we all work with sort of banded together and provided those services without racking up a bunch of additional costs. I don't know what this new is going to look like. We may see, you know, a drastic increase now in costs on the administrative side, more things that have to happen in order to get families moving, moving around and home where they belong. But I hope that we all rally, at least in the beginning, while we're sorting things out and we don't pass huge burden, financial burdens on to families that are already um stretched to the oh for sure wow, yeah, so we're all we're all looking at that, everyone's talking about it.
Speaker 3:That's why we we love, um, you know all the seeds, brown bags and webinars, and all the attorneys are jumping in and doing webinars and trying to help all navigate it. So it feels very communal, like we're all sort of in this hot mess together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Right, which is good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's good Cause. That means, together we can hopefully all change or not change, but well no, hopefully change things that are happening. Let's hope for that. I'm curious how, 21 country, I'm still stuck on it. I'm sorry, I'm so fascinated. I think that's amazing. It's like awesome how these different countries find out about you.
Speaker 3:Right. Um, you know, on the IP side, we I think you guys probably know you know surrogates are are the, the, the resource here, the women that we need and every single agency. I'd be surprised if an agency ever said like we're just drowning in incredible qualified surrogate right, and so you know the women that are willing to help a family in this way, those, those are the component of a journey that really is the hardest to find. We're very strict. At my agency. I work with fantastic clinics that also have this incredibly strict guidelines, so it's really that focus on finding quality surrogate candidates and it's a lot of word of mouth, thankfully, and I think that that's helpful.
Speaker 3:I travel to international conferences, so whether it's men having babies or wish for a baby or some little one-offs that we have, that has sort of made this group of 21,. Those are word of mouth. They have a friend who's gone through my agency and has this beautiful baby and they're like, yeah, we want that and so that's somehow those parents come to us. So I don't market in 21 places and I don't run ads actually for intended parents and travel, and you know something about you and your agency right there.
Speaker 2:It really does.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a huge benefit to getting in front of intended parents in person and so, again, I haven't been to 21 countries, but I do travel when I can. I have my daughter that works for me, is my caboose, so empty nest, which gives me the ability to do some travel and get in front of families. And I think, like with anyone, when you meet them in person, there's a level of conversation and connection that you can make. That's not always possible over zoom and so for me, um, I I'll go to these conferences, I'll meet families there and start helping families in those communities and then they share their stories and with referrals, that's great.
Speaker 1:So do you have a wait?
Speaker 3:list Well, I like to call it my match list. So my program director came in to say she's like, they're not really waiting, they're matching, we're just needing to find the right person, and so we're actually at about three months, depending on the list.
Speaker 3:So we have right, which is why she's like, I'm not calling it a waiting list, it's a matching list and so we match between eight and 10 surrogates every month and so the match is pretty quick. Yeah, we're, we did. I think last year we did 88 matches and then this year we're a little bit above that, but so we're, I think we're medium size. I mean, I know people who are making that many like a month or whatever that I make in a year, right, that many like a month or whatever that I make in a year, right. So, um, so we, we do, we do okay, but, um, our wait time is about three months. And and if you're an intended parent and you come and you say you know, um, we follow ASRM guidelines, I'm actually pretty strict about that, even though we're not required to.
Speaker 3:Asrm doesn't really work with agencies. They don't give us any kind of platform or care, you know, but we follow what their guidelines are that they present to clinics and mhps and stuff mental health professionals. So if you follow asrm guidelines as an agency and you follow seeds, so the ethical organization, I'm sure you know I'm on the membership, I'm a membership co-chair for that, and so I take seeds, um guidelines very seriously, standards and guidelines. And then you work with great clinics that have their own list of guidelines. So kind of once you start, you know, following all of those guidelines, um, you know, you're, you're gonna, you're gonna get some traction because you're, you're careful in the work that you do. I don't know if that answers your question.
Speaker 2:And you're ethical and you're yeah, you're following the rules per se. If you just want to put air quotes out there, yeah, but and and that to an intended parent is huge, huge. We've all known the age, you know the money's in there and boom, they're gone and that's, it's scary, and that's their whole life. They're waiting for a child and this is their whole life. So, yeah, to trust somebody is huge in this business, Huge.
Speaker 1:Did that answer your question? Sorry, no, it did. It answered it beautifully. And then, um, okay, so that's not long at all Three months to potentially find a match, or oh, you don't find a match Like that's yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you, so you know, so, yeah. So I guess if parents come in and say, um, I know that you follow these guidelines, I'm gonna trust you to find an appropriate match for me. Maybe here's a few things that are important. Um, what kind of communication I'm hoping for with my surrogate? Um, you know those few simple things that are important to them as long as they're meeting. You know we have four criteria their physical health, their emotional mental health, their social health and their financial health.
Speaker 3:And then we do what most agencies I think are doing, or at least should be doing, is, you know, gathering a full set of medical records directly from the providers, not from the GC herself criminal and financial background check. You know, if we're doing all of those things, we have a great candidate and she's not even in our program and she doesn't meet everything. So by the time a parent's going to be ready to match, they're going to have quality candidates available. The timeline difference is going to be if they start adding on a lot of lifestyle preferences, location, you know, all of these things that aren't relevant to a safe and successful journey but maybe important to them personally.
Speaker 3:So we do take those things serious, but then we're very transparent and say you know, our matching times are about three months and if you only want these very, very specific things, like a surrogate in two states, like only this state and that state, right, right. So then we can, we know enough and have been doing this long enough that we can adjust that and then be really transparent with them and what they can expect. If they come in and they're cool and they just say we want these basic fundamentals and we trust your judgment, we'll find them a surrogate that does match some of their hobbies and interests and things, cause it's always great to start with a little seed of something that they have in common. So we'll do that, um, and sometimes they match really fast, within even a few weeks.
Speaker 2:Who, who? Who gets to see whose profile first? Or do you have a coordinator who's matching up a surrogate and an intended parent or parents and just saying, okay, we're going to try these two together. Or does a surrogate get to look so?
Speaker 3:myself and Kim, my program director, we do kind of that preliminary matching, the sharing of profiles. In the beginning it really is customized for every single case. If we have a surrogate who we know is really particular and good for her, we know we don't have a problem with that. But maybe she saw a profile before and didn't resonate and she didn't like them and then we sent her someone else. So we go okay, she's really specific in what she wants, but she's not really able to articulate exactly what it is she needs and is looking for. So we know that the potential is there for us to send her a profile and for her not to be interested. Then we're going to send it to her first and if she's interested, then we'll send it to the parent. And we do it the other way as well. If we have a parent who every time we send them a surrogate's profile and we're jazzed, it all matches up and it's going to be amazing and they're like no, um, which doesn't actually neither of those things happen a lot, but they can happen. And then we're going to make sure that, um, that they're going to see that profile first. Otherwise we're sending it to the surrogate first, having this parent in mind, knowing that they don't quite, they're not really able to share with us exactly what they're looking for, and that's heartbreaking for everybody. So we're really careful. Um, and it's literally case by case. Um, if a surrogate, we asked them. We're really good at our match points, so we asked them. You know, are you okay If we're going to share your profile with the parent first, if we know that that parent's looking for a feeling of something particular? That way, and we explain it that way, we're not wasting your time. You're not going to open an email that the subject says oh, ip profile or whatever, and then you're excited and you're immediately invested and then you look at their profile and you say yes, and then we send your information to them, who they have, a history of being particular, right, and so we find transparency is just the best and if we're going to do something, I see I'm in a lot of those groups online.
Speaker 3:I'm invited to be there. I don't promote my agency. I simple simply try to help answer questions. But I see some of those concerns and I think about them all the time.
Speaker 3:Sarah gets telling each other you should see the profile first and you should demand to do these things and I'm like, how about trust your agency that they're trying to watch out for your heart and mind too? And if you trust us enough that you're signing up with us to be your agency, then know that we have your best interest in in mind and heart, and so transparency is everything. And if a surrogate says in mind and heart, and so transparency is everything. And if a surrogate says, you know, I I read online that that I get to see the profiles first and this is really important to me, to say, okay, talk to me about why that's important to you and I'll share with you kind of our process and we'll do what's important to you. But I want you to know why you're telling. Why are you? Why is it important to you? You should know why, not just that you've read it on the internet, right?
Speaker 3:And so then they're happy to share why they feel that that's most important to them. Then I can explain our process to them and maybe I'll say something like I have these intended parents and they really are specific in what they're looking for. Do you want me to send, do you want to see their profile first, or would you like me to send your profile to them first, just to make sure? And it saves a lot of heartache and we don't have broken matches and you know it has to be. This has to be customizable.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, donna, I'm going to be real honest with you. We are the people that are saying girls, look at it first and I'll. I'll say this. The reason we say that is our one.
Speaker 1:We've talked to other surrogates who have had I hate to call them horror stories, but like not the greatest of experience with certain agencies right right and I've had several cases, um, where I've told an agency this is what I'm looking for and and they're like, oh, okay, and send me somebody completely different. And they're like they love you. And I'm like, cool, that's not what I said I was looking for. So you know, and it is it's from my point of view it's coming from. But I love what you said. And like you talk, sitting down and talking to you or someone like you with an agency. I'm open to hearing you and being like, hey, this is how we do it. And I'm actually willing to be like yeah, okay, you seem trustworthy, like I'm going to do this with you. But in my personal experience in the past, it's been we're going to throw the complete opposite at you because's who's been on our waiting list the longest?
Speaker 3:And it's like, no, that's not right, and Kim um does does a lot of those sort of pairing up, and I would like I was just gone for a month, Right, so I would see her emailing with some people, and then I would send her a message and say I'm pretty sure like she only wanted like a LGBT couple or a heterosexual married couple, or that it was important to her that those parents don't already have children you know different, different match points like that and then I said I feel like I remember talking to her about that. And then Kim, sometimes it's rare, but then Kim might say back something to me like well, that's true, but since you've been out of town, um, she called me and said she actually talked to her husband about it and changed her match criteria Right, and so I'm like okay, so no, we both kind of call each other out on that, like I think that the surrogate wanted this or that and we do our intended parents as well.
Speaker 3:Okay, don't send the intended parents, the surrogate who has a specific criteria that they don't meet, and vice versa. So I'm really don't like broken matches and I think you can stop all of that with transparency from the beginning.
Speaker 3:So if you're, my surrogate and you're saying I really want to see the profile first, I'll say, okay, that totally fine to do that. Can you share with me why that's really important to you so I can make sure I get it right for you the first time, right, and then you share your reasons with me and then I'll say okay and I might say to you no, I have this intended parent that every time I talk with them you pop in my head every time and they meet what you're asking for but they're very particular and the last two profiles I sent to them they passed on.
Speaker 3:So, for you and for your needs, how can I help you with that? Because if I send you the profile, you're going to love these guys and they may not love you back because they don't know you like I do Right.
Speaker 3:They're just looking at a piece of paper, right, though they're thinking about their budget. They're looking at your birth weights. You know they're. They're doing that. They're not connected to you, right, and you can tell me. Do you want to risk that? Do you still want to see their profile first, or would you like me to go ahead and just send it to them and then, if they're interested, we can share it with you and then you can invest emotion?
Speaker 1:I would let you send it to them, cause I don't want to fall in love and then be heartbroken.
Speaker 3:I don't want to fall in love and then be heartbroken, right? So that's the conversations that we have and again, everything is very specific. I had a surrogate that just matched and she has had her benefits package for a very long time and kind of went over it and told, told us more than once, like everything looks good. And then I just had the best call with her and we went through it again because she's ending a match and she said I just she's been on those groups and she wanted to go through some same things with me and she had some changes she wanted to suggest and I would say you know seven or eight of her 10 suggestions we changed and they're totally fine and a couple of them. There's a reason why. My benefit is that and I explained to her the reason why very detailed and, you know, really smooth communication with this GC. And then she was like I can accept that, I understand that, it makes sense to me and I'm fine, let's leave it as it is.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:I think you should teach a class on this.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's happening everywhere, and I'm not. It's not.
Speaker 3:it's not happening everywhere, it's unfortunate because all of these people are adult human beings with rights and generally reasonable people, and I think you're just having those conversations and inviting inviting ideas and opinions and conversation about it with respect. Then you're going to come to the conclusion whatever's going to work for everyone. And it's also a good opportunity to say this isn't a good fit. This isn't a good fit for this intended parent or you, um, and maybe not a good fit for my agency, because I stand behind the things I have in my benefits package.
Speaker 3:I stand behind our processes and they're there for a reason from my experience and I'm not willing to change that and so maybe we're not a good fit for each other, but I have some amazing colleagues and I would be really happy to get you in front of one of them who I know is ethical and trustworthy and might be a better fit for you.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 3:I've said that to surrogates.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's the community that we try to associate ourselves with, because you're in the industry, so you know that not everyone is like this, and so it's always very nice and refreshing. And now I'm going to call out Grace and say thanks, grace, because now I understand everything that you've ever said about your agency, because she gives glowing reviews about you in her journey stories and every single time. So it makes a lot of sense and, knowing Grace and now knowing you, I completely understand that connection.
Speaker 3:It's a big deal and it was a big deal to grace. One of the things I love about the very beginning of her story is that she reached out to us and her BMI was quite high and we have this thing we call like our BMI club and we send like a cool water bottle and like some inspirational stickers it's inexpensive, it's no big deal stickers it's inexpensive, it's no big deal.
Speaker 3:But you know, weight is a struggle in my life and in so many people's lives. And I say, if you really want to do this, you can make a goal and achieve that for yourself and we'll stick around in the meantime. Get educated, ask us anything you want to ask while you're on your weight loss journey, where a support and a network for you to get your questions asked. And she did that, she crushed it. And sometimes you never hear from those women again and sometimes, like in Grace's situation, she put in the hard work and called us and said, okay, I'm there, I'm ready to go. And she did that, had to kind of do that in between her journeys to like regain her, like amazing strong body. And so every single woman that we talk to and parent that we talk to we treat as individual people on a journey of their own that has ideas and interesting things to say and needs of their own, and if you just pay attention to that, then I think you can be a good agency.
Speaker 1:I think that's yeah, it's like a selling point for me but it's to be treated like a human being, yes, and respected, and I 100% believe it coming out of from you.
Speaker 2:I do, I do. There's some people we've talked to that. I think they're just selling it and I believe it a hundred percent because I did this. What? 25 years ago? You got the person who was on the list next. That's who you got and I'm going to tell you right now, two out of three times it was horrible and I finally said listen, I need to see profiles. And they were like what? And so I picked and that journey was phenomenal because we had things in common and I had nothing in common with the other ones but didn't want to speak up and we talk about this a lot on this podcast because we just wanted to be a surrogate. So deeply it was just ingrained in us that we didn't want to cause waves. We didn't want to.
Speaker 2:But now I'm glad surrogates are finding their voice and with the help of agencies that are ethical, such as yourself, they can feel more comfortable finding their voice. And with the help of agencies that are ethical, such as yourself, they can feel more comfortable finding their voice. And you like the BMI thing, that whole thing. Like you don't just go hard, no, you send them a water bottle and some encouraging stickers and you tell them go on your journey, come back at us when you're ready. And people do like that was unheard of 25 years ago. Nobody would have done that. It would have been a hard no yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't think it does anyone. It's, uh, I guess it's. It's good. I have a good heart and my whole team is incredible and we care about that. But it's also good business from a business perspective. Every agency should care about that. It prevents match breaks. It prevents hurt feelings. We have a huge percentage of women who return for second and third journeys of my agency. They refer their friends, their sisters, all of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:And that's not happening.
Speaker 3:If you're not listening to, that's right. You know what they're trying to tell you feedback throughout the whole journey.
Speaker 2:So we give them.
Speaker 3:We give them plenty of opportunity to say I don't like these parents, right? So profile review, it's a profile review, it's a match meeting it's waiting for. So we wait until the clinic gives approval before we actually say you're officially matched and we and get payment from the parent, right? So there's a lot of steps along the way. So first they're looking at a profile, they can say no, thank you, or they can have questions answered. Okay, well, their letter, their profile, didn't share as much as I wanted to know. I need to know more things, right? So there's an opportunity there. Then they're going to meet that family. Then they're going to wait until their records are approved. We used to do it the other way get records approval and then have them meet. But I think, as you guys know, records approval or validation from a clinic is taking four to six weeks. So we don't want them to all wait and then, in four to six weeks of waiting, meet each other and discover it's not a good fit. So we're having them where if they want to, we ask them both and if they understand that it's only really pending the clinical approval of the records, then they can go ahead and we'll introduce them so that it kind of saves that time of everybody anxiously waiting and excited and then something happens. So, um, they can say no then then the records come back approved. Okay, your records were approved by the clinic today.
Speaker 3:How are you feeling about this match? Any more questions, any? Any hesitation? Like still excited, like are we going to do this? You know, and so there's a lot of opportunity to have her share her thoughts and feelings or make any suggested. You know changes and what she's hoping for from the journey, and so at that point then, like we ask them to trust us, we have to trust them that they have had plenty of opportunity, because once that match is official and I hope that this is your message to surrogates as well Once you've gone through all of that and your match is officially made and the parents start to spend significant financial resources on your screening, travel and all of those things legal contracts and everything else that you're committed to the process and that you do grandiose changes Right, yeah, cause that's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool, no, it's not cool. It's not cool, it's not okay, that's why it's good for business?
Speaker 3:because if you didn't do the homework ahead of time, right then you're going to be in legal contracts and it's going to fall apart.
Speaker 1:Exactly yep, and nobody wins nobody has a good experience no anyway, goodness no, um, I so so okay, so kind of going along with that right. So then you're at legal contracts. So I'm curious when is compensation talked about with you? Does the surrogate come in and they're like hi, I am interested in this. Or are you guys set at certain standards?
Speaker 2:for first, second, third state yeah, both of those are correct.
Speaker 3:So we have a fixed benefits package for first time surrogate. But they are told from the very moment they are sent the benefits package. Please look this over and let's have a conversation about how you feel about everything in this benefits package, right? And so those conversations start at the time of them even applying with our agency. So they have that benefits package and the ability to start discussions about it with us from the time they are just initially applying so we haven't even gathered all their medical records yet, and they've got that.
Speaker 3:So those conversations start then again. My benefits package has been dragged through the mud and worked over by everybody and their brother.
Speaker 3:So I feel pretty confident in my package, but we ask them multiple times throughout the whole initial stages of the journey If they have any questions, if they want to go through it item by item. Some of them do and some of them are like, no, I've seen a thousand of these already. I know what I'm talking about. I'm in the groups like all this stuff and they already come to the table with changes. We're very clear to say if you feel strongly about anything here, let's have a conversation because there might be an option to make an adjustment prior to finalizing the match. So that sentence is said multiple times and surrogates do change it. They might bump their comp up a little bit.
Speaker 3:One of the things we're really careful about that I actually bring up to them every time is childcare.
Speaker 3:Please look around in your local area to make sure that the childcare stipend or allowance for childcare is enough in your area for you for your hourly childcare, so that we can calculate it over the course of a week, a month and you have the right amount in your benefits package. And sometimes they have one child and they have, you know, great resources all around them and like that's fine, that's, that'll cover me for sure, and sometimes they say you know, I have four kids and it's one thing if you need childcare, um, because you're going to go to a doctor's appointment. It's another thing if you're on bedrest and you can't pick up your two-year-old or cook a meal and those kinds of things. And so they always have that opportunity and most of them, we have those discussions with them and make the changes that they ask for. But we do have a benefit, you know, we send a benefits package with those sort of fixed numbers and then we go from there and then make adjustments from there.
Speaker 3:We don't send a blank one like fill in the blanks oh.
Speaker 1:God, that would be bad.
Speaker 3:I mean the parents that I work with are just normal people. They mortgage their home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's usually how it is.
Speaker 3:I've had parents sell their home and move into a little apartment. I've had parents, you know, they cash out their retirement. Their parents have cashed out their parents' retirement to help them. I mean, they are really stretching here to do this and I don't have parents who could just say whatever she wants. It'd be great. They feel that in their heart they would love to do that, but that's not the reality. I don't have like Kardashians or whoever. I have people who really feel everything that's being spent on this journey and they're happy for her to be compensated. They're happy to cover everything and make sure she's covered for everything. But they really need some sort of a ballpark going into this so that they can.
Speaker 3:And it's better for the surrogate if she's transparent so the parents know can I match with her or not? What is the reality? Oh, she's incredible and beautiful. We love everything about her. We'll have a surrogate who has an extremely high hourly wage right, really high hourly wage. Everything about her is like an intended parents dream in every way. She's a beautiful, kind person and she deserves all her lost wages. But it's almost insurmountable for intended parents to have that be unlimited, which we don't cap lost wages. So you know that's a match point that she's going to have to have a family who has that really flexible budget to be able to do that. So the benefits package is important. Surrogate can make whatever changes that they would like to make of all the things they saw online and all the other things their girlfriends told them about what they deserve and everything else. I don't deny it you deserve the moon. You don't ever get paid what you're worth. You're worth millions of dollars and that's a true thing. It's true, yeah, what you're worth.
Speaker 1:You're worth millions of dollars, and that's a true thing.
Speaker 3:It's true. Yeah, from someone who wanted kids and was having trouble having them there really isn't an amount right that?
Speaker 2:would be enough, but it shouldn't be taken advantage of.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Well, that's why there has to be an altruistic component, absolutely Right.
Speaker 1:So I love how you just said that, because I absolutely hate the fact that we are either compensated surrogates or altruistic surrogates. No, I can be both and I am both.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's what I tell intended parents. I say compensation is fantastic. You can never pay a surrogate enough for what she's going to do for you. But you have to have a budget and this is a realistic thing. Every surrogate deserves to be compensated. But the surrogates that I like for my agency have both parts. They have the altruistic side as well. And so how I explain that to either a parent or a surrogate when they ask me further about that, I say um, one day the surrogate is going to be doing her millionth injection and she's covered in bruises and knots because she didn't massage right, like those kinds of things.
Speaker 3:And she's looking at this needle and she's saying I cannot do this one more day. But you know what I'm getting, well paid. So I'm gonna do it because that's what I'm paid to do. And she's gonna do the injection. And then the next day she's gonna draw the needle and she's gonna look at it again and she's still covered in bruises and she's gonna say to say I cannot do it today, I cannot do it.
Speaker 3:And then the thing she thought yesterday like, well, hey, you're getting paid. She's going to say who cares? There's not enough money in the world for me to stick myself again. And then she's going to think but those parents are so cool and I love them and I love what I'm helping them do, and for that reason I'm going to do this injection again today, right? So one day it might be motivated by her compensation and the very next day it might be motivated for her heartstrings and and realizing this greater thing that she's doing. So I don't care what the motivations are, she's going to take her medication, yeah, and that's the bottom line. Is, what are the? What are the surrogates motivations? I love a surrogate who is motivated by both of those things and they can live in the same space, right?
Speaker 1:yeah you're here, yeah, I love it beautifully said and very true it doesn't what.
Speaker 3:they don't have to be like independent of each other. You can use the compensation, you can appreciate the compensation. You can appreciate the compensation and do something really cool with it for your family and also be very kind and nice and be doing this really great thing. So some people have a confidence when surrogates are like I just want to give this gift while you're being compensated. Is it a gift?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is of my heart, yes, it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's both of those things.
Speaker 2:It is a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm looking at my questions here, cause we've kind of went over. Yeah.
Speaker 2:All of them, cause I don't know if we put this on recording or not. Um, how many babies in the 11 and a half years have been produced from your?
Speaker 3:agency we ended. The last official count is we ended 2024 at 380. And we've been having, you know, we we matched 88 last year and so they're all in the process of. I think if I counted them up we'd probably land somewhere around four or 15, four, 20, maybe ready by now and then by the end of the year. I guess we'll see, so I don't um we always celebrate every pregnancy and every baby as a team, Um, but I I don't like really take a tally.
Speaker 2:I do at least once a year, but I don't you know kind of do that on a regular pregnancy takes over nine months, especially when you're doing infertility treatments. So that's, that's an incredible success, so it's fun.
Speaker 3:And when the babies are born, um, you know, not all families like to share openly on social media, so my social media doesn't have a lot of that. I'm really protective of everyone's privacy, but in our own team, like in our team CRM chat, it's a baby photos all day long. Right now it's really cool, Cause it's like several a month and so we're we're having a good time over here. That's cool.
Speaker 1:That's very cool and I support both sides. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Incredibly well, incredibly well yeah.
Speaker 1:No, you, you do, and I, I'm.
Speaker 3:I'm like where were you my last journey? Right, Right, right I know that there's.
Speaker 1:I know that there's other agencies like me. No, there are, there are, but you know it feels. It feels I mean the more that we do this podcast and the more we talk to people. We're very thankful that you know agencies like yours aren't really think. Thank, thank goodness they're becoming less of a unicorn, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3:Like they, they're there, it's just like you gotta find the focus is always on the like, the media attention of all these bad things happening. You know that's part of the problem is you. You can have a hundred agencies doing really good work and then the one agency that steals all your money and, uh, you know, treats you terribly or refuses to give you, um, what they promise in their agreement with you, like all of those types of things, um, those are the, those are the journeys that can ruin it for everybody. So that's why it's a big responsibility for for an agency I feel the same way about clinics and attorneys and everyone else that is in our community it's a huge, huge responsibility to not screw it up for everybody. Yeah, same thing in these other countries too, as we are moving into other countries to look at options there for family building. Please go slow, please be careful, because right One mistake can cost a lot.
Speaker 3:This is the sad part for me as someone who's had the infertility, and so I can imagine what it's like for families who really need a surrogate is those people are out there and the numbers are increasing of families who need help and one slip up, one mistake that you don't give your all to fix. Mistakes happen even at my agency, but I throw myself on the sword and fix it immediately. Right, and if we're not doing that, then that is going to take it down for everybody. Yes, stop this being a viable option for families. So it's a huge responsibility and I think there's a lot of us who take it really seriously, and then there's some that don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think there's more who do than those who don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at least, that's what I want to hope and it has changed a lot in the two and a half decades that I was around for doing it and a lot, and I always say it. I'm so grateful and so happy to see all of those positive changes. Seeds wasn't around, they SRM, all those wasn't around, yeah.
Speaker 3:Nope, and I still refer to Sarah, you see, as the wild, wild West, right? Uh, except for what? New york? Basically, there's no real regulation that requires any type of real vetting. We vet everybody for seeds membership, but seeds is only as good as the people who know about it. I'm in the group sometimes trying to explain what seeds is and someone's. Isn't that that escrow pumping that sold everyone's money?
Speaker 1:I'm like no no, that's not them I'm different acronym right like all this stuff right?
Speaker 3:wow.
Speaker 2:So people, not enough people to really I'm like no, that's not them.
Speaker 3:Different acronym. Right Like all this stuff, right, Wow. So people not enough people really know what SEEDS is and then doing international surrogacy? I'm the one that's educating the parents internationally about SEEDS. So if I'm not a SEEDS member, I'm not doing that and nobody would know the difference. Wow, they don't know what that organization really is. It's becoming it's, it's, it's filtering out there a little bit. So we're working hard to to make sure that that's more well-known.
Speaker 3:but you know, some agencies choose not to be a member of SEEDS or some. Some of them have good reasons why they're not participating. It doesn't mean they're not ethical, but they're just choosing not to participate and so, um it's. It's not really clear, but that's all we got, so we're clinging to it and I'm sorry you didn't have that when you were a surrogate and I'm glad things have changed for your daughter a little bit better. Maybe, for and maybe for her daughter a little bit yeah.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't that be fun. We could get a trilogy going on here.
Speaker 3:But then that's your responsibility as a former surrogate. I think you've done it multiple times, right? So, as a former surrogate, your responsibility then is to educate those people in your own personal life about what is and isn't okay in third-party family building and maybe one of your kids will. I mean, my daughter works for me and you guys work together, and I think that that does happen throughout our field and it's it's catching the path for this.
Speaker 1:I think this next generation is, I think the millennial generation is more understanding, and then I think Gen Z I think is after them is like even more, just like yeah, yeah, Live your life Like whatever.
Speaker 3:Then I'm like finally, my older kids are millennial, my daughter's Gen Z, and she just thinks this is the coolest job she could have on the planet. She loves it. Envision doing anything else and she is so open. You know we help a lot of LGBTQ families and she just, you know, human beings are human beings in that, in that um generation, you know, and everyone's deserving of care and love and you live your life without authenticity and everyone else should mind their own business. It's very much that generation and those are after us.
Speaker 3:Yep, as long as our work can continue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it will it, will it, will it, will it, will, it, will it, will it, will it will Heck yes, heck, yes, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So, dawn, if people want to, if surrogates or intended parents want to work with your agency, where do they contact you? Where do they go?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, um, so our, our website is us-surrogacycom. You can find us online, but it's an interesting issue. You would need to put US Surrogacy LLC at the end, otherwise you're just going to get a million articles on surrogacy in the United States. So it's it's US, is United States. Yeah, it's not us. It's never about us, right? So it's not. I didn't even think of that.
Speaker 2:I knew it was United. That's funny. I thought, of course it's United States.
Speaker 1:Oh we didn't even ask. I'm over here being like yeah, united States surrogacy.
Speaker 2:So it's us surrogacy. No, no, no, it's United States, united States. Yeah, that's what I thought it was Okay.
Speaker 3:U S surrogacy.
Speaker 2:But put the LLC behind it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it needs the LLC, okay A search for us, for you guys to pop up. Okay, that is us-saragasycom. We're on Facebook and Instagram and everything else. And that's where all the fun stuff happens on those other social media platforms. But yeah, you can find us dawn at us-saragasycom is my email. You can always reach me there. Saragasy and family building Um, it's, uh, my favorite topic in the whole world to talk about. So sorry, I was so chatty.
Speaker 1:I thought this is a podcast. I would hope you're chatty.
Speaker 3:Oh, I don't know, like I had your list of questions. Um, yeah, and and gosh, I hope, I hope I have enough to say, and probably, are now.
Speaker 1:No, we can. I'm sitting over here like an hour is not enough. I feel like we could totally talk to you again, Cause you're just so the coolest.
Speaker 2:subject wealth of information.
Speaker 1:Yes, we talk about this all the time. This is all we want to talk about, so we're right there with you.
Speaker 3:Friends and family are like really again more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what they say to us too I'm an international program.
Speaker 3:I have a lot of domestic families as well, um, which I love, all over the united states and and and I get to travel all over the world for work and meet amazing, hopeful, hopeful parents all over the world that are relying on women like the two of you in the united states to help them. So thank you for you know I'm a military person, so I'll say thank you for your service all over the world that are relying on women like the two of you in the United States to help them.
Speaker 1:Thank you, for you know, I'm a military person, so I'll say thank you for your service.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, there you go, there you go. Well, thank you for yours.
Speaker 1:Because with agencies like you, it makes it a lot more comfortable and a lot more safe for intended parents and surrogates. Just speaking of the surrogate myself, I would feel really safe having you guide me on a journey, and that's saying a lot.
Speaker 2:It is saying a lot coming from her.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent Yep I love my work and I appreciate that you love your free work.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:You're educating people about what this is and what it should be and, um, yeah, you know, I don't hold anything against you for telling people to see the profile first.
Speaker 1:I really get.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh my God, she hates me. I realized the benefit of that and if it's important to a surrogate, then I make it important to me too. And so, no, no hard feelings that you know we have different perspectives, that I see it's easy for me to see things your way and I think you maybe saw things a little bit differently too. Yeah, so I appreciate the candor um about on that around that topic yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I really and but and I really appreciate you being open to having the conversation. That's the thing, if somebody's open to having the conversation on the other person's views we're open to listen people are always open to come to a compromise or something.
Speaker 3:Boy, if they could apply that outside of surrogacy and just in general, we wouldn't be in this we wouldn't be in this position wouldn't it be a beautiful?
Speaker 3:world yeah, yeah, that that is a whole nother podcast. So getting ready to do a webinar for a big, uh, big association um out of the on on birthright citizenship and how that may affect getting them, you know, getting them home with their families, and it's a concern for for families, you know, everywhere where there's international programs outside of parents here in the U S. So we'll see what that looks like and maybe I'll talk to you again about that as it starts to shake out and we find pathways home for these families.
Speaker 3:so keep us in your hearts, and attorneys too, as we navigate this new answer gosh, yes, absolutely thank you, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us, yeah okay, well, thank you, and I look forward to maybe seeing you in person one day thank you you so much.
Speaker 1:Have a great evening. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Thank you, it was really nice to talk with you. We'll see you in the fall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, bye, bye-bye. Oh my gosh, how awesome.
Speaker 2:It was very I was. I was just like I could just sit back. She just keep talking.
Speaker 1:No, but like, really like we could do a whole other podcast, but I feel like we could like ask like a whole other thing of podcast questions, like she's just very sweet and informative and and very immersed in the community, very immersed.
Speaker 2:And knowledgeable on like all things, Cause she had it from every angle it was. I was like, oh, I didn't really think about that with the whole profile thing. Like that really opened my eyes and I thought you know what? Because no?
Speaker 1:one has been respectful enough to sit us down and be like oh well, this is where we're coming from.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay great.
Speaker 1:Because the people that I've worked with that's not where they were coming from.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But it seems that her agency is that way and they know they're people they're working with so very, very well that why do you want to break hearts that way and why do you want to get somebody invested? Let's just do it this way, first, exactly. Why not? Yeah, why not, doesn't?
Speaker 1:hurt Doesn't hurt Well, thank you, grace, for introducing us, and thank you so much, dawn, for taking the time to talk with us. This was your beautiful inside and out, and so thank you so much. If anybody has any questions or stories they would like to share, please feel free to reach out to us on Instagram at stop period sit period surrogate, or you guys can email us at stop period sit period surrogate at gmailcom. And this has been another episode of stop sit surrogate with Kennedy and Ellen. Why are you laughing, ellen?
Speaker 1:I said you do that so well from like a billion times. All right, have a great night, everyone Bye, everybody Bye.
Speaker 2:If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to give us a like and subscribe. Also, check out the link to our YouTube channel in the description, and be sure to also check out our children's book my mom has superpowers, sold on Amazon and Etsy.