Stop. Sit. Surrogate.
A mother and daughter podcast educating others on surrogacy from a surrogates point of view. And the point of view from the intended parents, children born from surrogacy, the agency, legal professionals and IVF doctors for the science behind it all. Together we have brought 8 beautiful children into this world and it’s been an insane rollercoaster ride! Good and bad, the sweet and the sour, all coming to light about the truths behind the best and worst surrogacy journeys. Stop. Sit. Surrogate. Is a podcast that is able to give well rounded information about surrogacy from every point of view. We hope to give as much education as we can provide, to those who want to learn and know more about surrogacy.
Stop. Sit. Surrogate.
(Ashleigh Part 1) Beyond the Womb: When Strangers Become Family
#surrogacy #ivf #surrogate
Ashleigh’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/surro_ashleigh?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==://www.instagram.com/surrornsara?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Ashleigh’s path began with an unexpected source of inspiration – the TV show "Friends" – and quickly evolved into a calling that would change multiple lives forever. With remarkable candor, she shares how her first surrogate pregnancy unfolded during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, requiring creativity and flexibility from everyone involved. Despite the challenges, this experience only strengthened her resolve to help more families.
The most powerful moments come when Ashleigh describes her second and third journeys for a family with a devastating backstory. After the intended mother suffered life-threatening complications and lost her baby during the pandemic, she found Ashleigh through social media in what can only be described as a destined connection. Their relationship transcended the typical surrogate arrangement, culminating in a breathtaking birth where the intended mother herself delivered her baby from Ashleigh’s body – a moment of profound healing and redemption.
Throughout her story, Ashleigh offers invaluable insights about the medical, emotional, and practical aspects of surrogacy. From navigating clinic requirements to advocating for appropriate care during pregnancy complications, her experiences highlight both the challenges and the tremendous rewards of this path. Now working as a perinatal mental health therapist, Ashleigh brings professional expertise alongside her personal journey to this conversation.
Whether you're considering surrogacy, supporting someone through this process, or simply curious about this path to parenthood, Ashleigh’s story will move you with its raw honesty and beautiful moments of human connection. Listen as she demonstrates how strangers can become family through one of life's most profound gifts.
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Welcome. We are a mother-daughter podcast about all things surrogacy. Together, we have brought eight beautiful babies into this world and we would like to share through education and knowledge about surrogacy with those who want to educate themselves on the topic. This is Stop Sit Surrogate.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, welcome back to Stop Sit Surrogate with Kennedy and Ellen, and we have a wonderful guest joining us today to share her story. We're going to let you go ahead and introduce yourself. Take it away.
Speaker 3:My name is Ashley Donahue. I am a three-time surrogate. I'm now retired officially. Oh dear, oh dear, thank goodness. I did three journeys in Goodness. Thank goodness, I did three journeys in goodness. I started my first one in 2020 and just delivered this March. So three journeys in about five years. I did that too.
Speaker 4:Wow, it's a lot. I think I did that. If you put, them together. Girl, it's a lot, you don't realize how much it is until you've like, recovered, like yes, yes, and I recently I was talking to somebody.
Speaker 3:I'm a perinatal mental health therapist. That's my actual job and it is a super fun job and I was at a conference and I went to a workshop on supporting intended parents who are building their family through surrogacy, and so I just happened to be speaking with the presenter and she was talking about you know how? There's really no research about any of this and I said I'd love to do it like do this presentation from the other side and I was kind of telling her about my journey and I said I have birthed five babies in nine years with my two and then the three surrogate. So I'm like I am, we're wrapping it up in the fertility world here at my house wow, it's a lot, it's a lot those hormones, man that's a lot on your body, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:and your mental health, oh, my god, everything, but you look super like. I would have never guessed that Healthy. And yeah, she said five years. Look at you doing it in the pandemic a couple of times. That was an experience, that was my very first journey we um.
Speaker 3:We matched in January of 2020. We matched in january of 2020.
Speaker 1:I was supposed to go to la for med screening. St patrick's day of 2020? Obviously that didn't happen.
Speaker 3:The world literally shut down, um, did my med screening locally instead and then ended up getting clearance and all that and was able to transfer August of 2020, but traveled in the midst of you know all the craziness to Los Angeles, where it was, you know, just absolute. Yeah, everything was closed. There was. There was no traffic in LA, which is like unheard of. Yeah, will not be the same way the next time I go to LA next year for a conference. I'm sure I will have a very different experience, but yeah, it was. It was truly wild, and so that was.
Speaker 3:We transferred in August, I delivered in April, applied for another journey in the next August and so, like, applied for my next journey four months later, less than four months, I think, it was like three and a half months later, and then, by the time I was just over nine months postpartum, had already transferred again with a different family. It was just once I got kind of bitten by the surrogacy bug. I just was like I want to do this as many times as I can. Yeah, and it just like I didn't. I didn't even really want to wait. I was like let's just, let's go again. And I probably would have gone faster. Had the doctors been like yeah, sure, but yeah, we all know what that does to our bodies and yeah, I'm surprised they let you transfer within nine months of having a baby.
Speaker 2:I'm really surprised with that one.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I am too, and now any anybody I talk to, I'm like please wait at least a year like please wait at least a year, right, yeah.
Speaker 4:But like the thing is you, you can't, like you can get clinics will see you six months after if you have a vaginal delivery, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I a lot of times they won't transfer you until you're close to a year, right most clinics and agencies.
Speaker 2:That's their policies.
Speaker 4:I I transferred a year to the day from my first to my second like that but it's so fun because I was like, oh, she transferred August of 2020. So did I. So her baby was born in April, but mine came early, so that was a March, but it would have been fun to know you Well and my most recent surrogate was due in April and was born in March.
Speaker 3:He was born at 36 weeks um we were. We were about a month early, yeah same here.
Speaker 4:Okay. So then, like the fun question that we always ask, like how did you find out about surrogacy?
Speaker 3:yeah, um, I am a huge fan of the show friends, yeah, and I remember watching Phoebe carry the triplets for her brother and thinking that is the coolest thing ever and then forgetting about it for years until I was rewatching it as an adult, actually during maternity leave with my youngest child, and was like, oh yeah, that's a thing I could do, that Like I was done with my family, but I didn't want to be done being pregnant. So I was like I'm gonna look into this, see what this process is, and just kind of like went down this rabbit hole. I I'm very into astrology and I'm an Aries, so as soon as I decide on something, I go for it like immediately. So I decided April of 2019, I was going to do this. My husband was the reason that we kind of held off a little bit. He was like let's just relax a little, and I had applied by November and got the ball rolling after that. So it was something I was very excited about, wow.
Speaker 4:That's very cool. I do like it because it's. I mean when? Because, like you know, a lot of people are like oh, it's friends, it's friends like that's where I found it, and it's like. And I constantly go in my head I'm like why is it friends like? Why is that the only positive experience that we all see on a ramp but like it's just so funny because it's just. Nobody else ever says any other show I've seen shows where there's surrogates, but there's it's negativity or you know it's false and right.
Speaker 4:Closest not accurate, but closest you could get right.
Speaker 3:Yeah which is also so wild no, and it's also so wild that that was 30 years ago, right in the 90s, I think is when it came out In the 90s. Yeah, that you know we were having these conversations on TV. And I mean we all know Surgis has been around for a while and obviously it looked different. You know when Surgis first started. But you know to have that in a show that was so popular 30 years ago, that's groundbreaking.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, absolutely Now. I have to go watch friends after this. Yeah, okay, so you decided to look for an agency. Well, hold on, did you get? You got matched in January. You were looking in November of 2019.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was kind of looking over that summer, honestly didn't do like a ton of research, because I really didn't do much research. I found an agency that's local to me. I'm just outside of Boston, so the agency that I went with is based in Boston, and I was. You know, I really had no idea how any of it worked and thought, well, they're here, so I'll go with them. It ended up being an okay choice for me, but I really didn't do as much research as I now recommend to people. When they talk about being interested in surrogacy. I'm like, please, just like slow down, do your research, look and talk to agencies, look into independent journeys If that's something you're thinking about. Like there's just so many ways to do this that you know I wish I had taken a little bit more time and just like thought about it and done more research. Thankfully it all worked out, though.
Speaker 4:Yeah, good, okay, so did you find them on Google? Thankfully it all worked out, though. Yeah, good, okay, so did you find them on google? I'm assuming. Yeah, yep, yep, I did the whole surrogacy agency.
Speaker 3:And then google asked do you want to share your location? And that's what popped up.
Speaker 4:Oh, so fun okay, so you're with this. So then you, you go with this agency and are they the kind or I'm always so curious like yeah, did you get to see the profile? Or were they like, hey, someone's interested in you it was a kind of mutual thing.
Speaker 3:So I put together my profile and then they sent it to intended parents the same day that I would get an intended parent profile, um, and it was kind of like you know, ashley, what do you want in intended parents? And so I had, you know, a list of criteria. I wanted a domestic journey, preferably somebody that was somewhat close by. I wanted I didn't really care if it was a same sex couple, heterosexual couple did not matter to me, um was okay with single parents. I, you know, it was more important to me that it was somebody that was close by and also wanted a relationship that was that was really big for me, um, and and so I was given a profile. Um, the first few it just didn't didn't work out. And then finally, I think it was my third or fourth profile that I was given that I finally was like this is a couple I would want to move forward with. And so from there we scheduled our Zoom call because they had said the same about me, and then it was a match.
Speaker 4:Wow, can I say good, good for you. I'm like snaps over here. Because you were like and this is, this is no diss to like a first-time surrogate, because I was. I was a first-time surrogate and I was like sure you handed me a person and this is who I'm with. I said no to to the first one they handed me because they didn't speak English and I was like that's not gonna go great. But then they handed me somebody else and luckily it turned out fine. But to be a first time surrogate and be like, yeah, no, I'm, I'm, that's, that's not for me, that's not hitting my wants.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that takes a lot for a break.
Speaker 4:I don't even want to say bravery, it just takes a lot Like cause. You don't want to, we don't want to be the problem people and we're always afraid we say something are we going?
Speaker 2:to rock the boat and it's like no, it's okay Because there's so much more conversation now and people know it's okay to say I don't have to take the first person you give me back 20, 30, 20 years. You couldn't. You took what they gave you and that was because the waiting list was so long and they couldn't wait to get the surrogates in. And here you go next on the list, next on the list, and that's why so many of those were downhill so fast.
Speaker 3:They didn't take the time yeah, right, and I do think it's so important because I mean, first of all, intended parents have to put so much trust in a surrogate, but also surrogates put so much trust in intended parents. You know there there needs to be that even if it is a purely transactional relationship, you do have to have trust in the people that you're helping because they do hold some power in how a journey goes and they're, you know, you're kind of tied to that person for potentially, or those people for potentially, two years between you know anything that can happen over the course of surrogacy yes, a lot a lot, too A lot can happen and so, yes, absolutely Okay.
Speaker 4:So you, you, Matt, you found your people, yeah and um, so my gosh, cause you're in 2020, I have to like go back to do you remember any of the med protocol back then? And did they? Do Okay.
Speaker 3:I actually, so I did. So I, like I said I've done the three journeys, two different couples. So my, the first set of intended parents I carried, for they were they had twins from a previous journey and were completing their family with with our journey and, um, and they knew, going into that, that like this was it we're going to do, you know, potentially our three transfers, you know, see what happens, and then that was it for them, Um, and then I matched with a second couple and I'll I'll obviously get into all the details of all of those things, but things, but it was two different clinics. So my first transfer took with the first set of intended parents and with that med protocol. It was very the way the clinic described. It is very standard, Like this is what we do you come in for. Well, obviously I didn't go there for med screening because it was 2020. But they were like you go in for med screening on this day of your cycle and then you know, once you get your clearance, you call us as soon as you start your period and then you're going to start your meds, You're going to have a transfer on exactly this day and that was that. It was very like very regimented. I had the entire calendar before transfer day, which was, I mean, before we even started medications, which was wonderful because I am very much a planner. So I was like I know exactly what I'm doing, I know how to plan, I know what to have prepared.
Speaker 3:And then, with the second clinic I worked with my intended parents only had one embryo. So we were very superstitious about the fact that it worked the first time and this clinic is pretty much known for doing natural cycles and we pushed back a lot on keeping protocols the same because it worked the first time. We knew what to expect. We were like this worked, we're gonna do it. Had the transfer not worked, I'm sure that there would have been a discussion, but it worked again the first time. They had the one embryo he is now almost three years old, um. And and same thing with our third journey. It was that was a sibling journey and again we pushed back and said we want to keep everything exactly the same. Again, they only had one embryo. Again, it worked, Wow.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like I have not talked to many surrogates that have gone three for three. Usually, I feel like there's been something that's happened a canceled cycle, failed transfer, a loss, something and I'm so truly thankful that I didn't experience any of that, mostly for my intended parents, especially the couple that only had one each time, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I came across somebody because I'm well now I'm three for four, but I was three for three before this fourth journey and somewhere along the way somebody called me a unicorn and I'm like why am I a unicorn? What do you mean? I'm a unicorn and they're like because people who and I was like gosh, darn it, you just jinxed me. Because they're like because it took each time the first time. I'm like why put it out in the atmosphere? Just let's not call people. It's fine, we don't, I understand, but it is very weird because there's so many people in life, ivf in general, like everything. It's such a wild thing, especially when it takes and then it takes, and then it takes, and then for it not to take, but you didn't expect it, but yeah, but then for it not to take you're like what, yeah, but no, that's.
Speaker 4:That's very nice, especially since they had one embryo each that's been there, that's stressful Were any of these three sibling journeys for the same family?
Speaker 2:No, so the second two journeys were the same family. Second two journeys were the same family. Got it Okay? Okay, so they have an almost three-year-old and kind of a not newborn.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he is going to be four months old on Saturday.
Speaker 4:Wow. That's super fun, okay, okay. So how did your first journey pregnancy go?
Speaker 3:it was the easiest of all five pregnancies I've had. Um, if I could guarantee that every pregnancy I could have would be that one, I would have been pregnant 100 times. Right, the only the only thing I ever complained about was I. I didn't have cravings, I had food aversions. I just I couldn't eat meat and I'm somebody who like eats meat with every meal pretty much and I just, I couldn't look at it, I couldn't smell it, it was, it was a no-go for me. But other than that, I felt great and you know, which was also really nice, given that it was 2020 and OB care looked different I was very thankful that I did not have an OB office that shut down and did virtual care.
Speaker 3:I was still able to go in for all of my regular prenatal care. Ultrasounds looked a little different. Now that I've done other surrogacy journeys and been kind of labeled higher risk, I know that I didn't have as many ultrasounds in that pregnancy as I would have if the pandemic weren't happening. But our hospitals have been really great. They let the intended parents come in for the big ultrasounds. They were there. I know they were there for the 20 week. I were there. I know they were there for the 20 week. I'm trying to remember if they were there for the 12 or not. I feel like that was like a bajillion years ago, yeah, but I know for sure they were there for our anatomy scan, which I mean they weren't even letting partners in the room, so it was really unheard of that they were there.
Speaker 4:Can you say that again? They weren't even letting partners in the room in 2020, right yeah. No one was allowed in.
Speaker 3:No one was allowed. Jesus, yeah yeah, I know it feels so long ago, but it also feels like yesterday. Yeah, right, right.
Speaker 4:It's just. It's such a wildly different experience, like it's just. It's like it's just engraved in our memories forever because it's just so different, oh different.
Speaker 2:Oh, did you carry full term for that one?
Speaker 3:The first one, yes, so, um, I carried, she was, I was induced, uh, at 39, eight. She came at 39, nine, um, and was a beautiful eight pounds, three, four ounces, I think, four ounces somewhere around there. So, you know, came out very healthy and is now four and a half, and or, no, almost four and a half, and is, you know, living her best life with her dads and her brothers. And you know, and I still get pictures and updates and they're they're a little further away from me than my second set of intended parents, so I don't get to see them quite as often. But it was really important to me, like I said, to have an ongoing relationship and so I'm really thankful that I still get those updates. And you know, birthdays are a big one. I always send a gift. They always send, you know, pictures and texts and updates, and it's just, you know, to be able to be a part of someone's story like that is just so unique and is an experience I will never not be completely amazed by. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And as the kids get older, they're going to be fascinated and amazed by yeah, and as the kids get, older, they're going to be fascinated and amazed by it too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, yeah, and it is really great because, you know, with that, with that family, her dads are really vocal about surrogacy. They talked about their journeys. They, you know, were in articles about their twin pregnancy. They did a whole Instagram series for some baby company I don't remember which one talking about. You know the experience of being two dads who, you know, had to build their family through surrogacy so they could have a biological child, and it was just so cool to be able to see that. Like you know, like we said, like surrogacy hasn't always been painted in the best light in many different forms of media, and so to have such a positive experience out there, it was just so cool and and those kids will always get to see where they came from and how they're, how they started, yeah, and how loved and much.
Speaker 4:They are like yeah, yeah so how much they're, exactly like yeah yeah, leaps and bounds were taken right to bring you here by so many people. People that, somebody that was a stranger in the beginning.
Speaker 3:It's great, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:How does the birth go? For that? You said induced right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was induced. It was so easy. I feel like I joke that my third journey was kind of like the payback for the other journeys being easy. I say that in a very joking way because everything turned out totally fine and when we get to that third journey you'll see why I say that. But it was, it was so easy it was.
Speaker 3:You know, we arrived at the hospital at around four o'clock in the afternoon. I had a room. Obviously the dads had their own room so we could kind of still see each other but weren't in the room together at all times. And you know so when I needed some space to rest or, you know, doctors were coming in, they had a place to go where they could also have some time to their themselves. And you know I always like to talk about that moment before you become parents, whether it's your first child or not. Yeah, it is just such a magical time with, you know, between you and your partner or your support person, and you know, for them to have that space to do that before they completed their family. I'm so glad that they got that so it didn't feel like I was like kind of intruding on their moment.
Speaker 2:That's very forward thinking of the hospital that you were at, because most they do not assign those rooms until after the baby's born, the golden hour, all of that, and everybody's ready to go to rooms. So the fact that they have it ahead of time way to go hospital, yeah.
Speaker 3:They, they, um, have had a few surrogates before and so you know, when we went in for hospital tours and whatnot, they, they said, like this is a work in progress, we're all still learning how to do this and obviously if there's not space, then that might be a different story. But they, you know, especially with an induction, knowing we were coming in, they were able to kind of make sure that there would be a space available for everyone.
Speaker 2:So were you ever induced before with your own?
Speaker 3:no, okay, no that go honestly like it. My, my two were. My two were great.
Speaker 3:My oldest her birthday is the day after christmas, um, so we sometimes joke about the year that she ruined christmas, which is very much a joke and I will often follow it up with you were the best christmas present I ever, even though you were 12 hours late and you know. So I was just sitting there the whole day, timing contractions at Christmas dinner and opening presents, and you know, and it was very much the like, I don't know what's happening. Am I in labor? Am I not in labor? And with my second I was having contractions for a month so I didn't know when it was go time. She ended up being a day late. To this day she still runs on her own schedule, um, they're.
Speaker 3:They have their personalities right from the start, um, so being induced was very different, but I loved it. I loved having that like you're to go in on this day. This is the plan. Obviously, we all know with childbirth things don't always go to plan. There's always a plan B, c, d, e, however many plans you need. But it was really nice to know like I could work up until this day, especially in the work that I do. I wanted to make sure everybody had other connections with other therapists and and everybody else was supported so that I could go, you know, deliver this baby, take my time off to recover and not be worried about leaving people in the lurch, whereas, like with my kids, I was like, well, I might be back at work on Monday. We'll see.
Speaker 4:That's funny. Okay, that's funny. Very different mindsets.
Speaker 2:So you go in at four when baby born like long labor not super long.
Speaker 3:We did. We did a couple of rounds of cytotec first, just to get things started. You explain what that is, just for those who don't know. Absolutely, I'm so used to just like you're dropping all the terminology.
Speaker 4:I am the civilian in the conversation because she's the nurse and she understands everything and I'm just like yeah you're like what is all this?
Speaker 3:um, cytotec is a medication that is often used to start cervical ripening. So if you are not actively in labor it helps to thin and soften the cervix so that hopefully contractions will start on their own, dilation will start on its own, and with that pregnancy it did. With the other two inductions I had for my next two surrogacies it didn't and we moved on to other interventions. But we went in at 4 o'clock in the afternoon and she was born just before 6 am the next day. So it really wasn't a long induction at all. I think I pushed twice. By the time they checked me, I think I was at like 8 centimeters, maybe a half an hour later. It was go time and then that was it. She was here and and that was that yeah.
Speaker 2:Did they do their golden hour in the room with you or did they go to their own room? They?
Speaker 3:were in the room for a few minutes, obviously, while they were doing, you know, making sure baby's okay, kind of record, all that. And then they did do the rest of the golden hour in their own room, okay.
Speaker 4:Was there a reason that they decided to, that you decided to get induced or, like your doctor, decided to induce you?
Speaker 3:Um, the doctor gave me a choice. She had said that there were some studies that had indicated that with IVF pregnancies that there really wasn't any reason to wait until a full 40 weeks because we knew the age of the embryo. We, you know, development was right on track and unless there was a medical reason to induce sooner than that, anytime in the 39th week was fine. So we at that point we kind of got to choose baby's birthday, which I left up to the parents. I was like this is your child. You just tell me when to be there and I'll be there. And it was really. It was really great because I wasn't I wasn't induced for my children and because it was, you know, with my kids, my first two pregnancies.
Speaker 3:I was younger. The doctors were like as long as you don't go to 41 and one right, we're just going to let nature take its course. My doctor was really great about saying this is partially to make sure that you stay safe. We don't need you to go to 40 plus because at that point we're worried about your placenta, we're worried about blood pressure, that sort of thing. I never had any medical issues, which was thank goodness. It was honestly like I said that pregnancy was a perfect pregnancy and and so we kind of just were like you know, we'll do what what the doctors say is best and and thankfully the induction worked, yeah, and everyone was healthy so, given that it's COVID, how does your family and your kids get their closure or their hello baby nice, to meet you earth side?
Speaker 4:how old are your kids when this happens?
Speaker 3:so in 2021, when she was born, my kids were five and two, okay, two-year-old. They were babies um they. I'm trying to remember. If they I don't believe they went to the hospital, because I'm pretty sure it was they were only allowing siblings, like if it were a sibling. Make a comment. Right.
Speaker 3:It wasn't, I'm pretty sure we just FaceTimed. We all left 24 hours later, Wow. So we didn't do a full. It was a vaginal birth, so we didn't do our full 48 hour stay. They wanted to get home as soon as they could. Like I said, they had two boys at home that they wanted to bring their baby sister home too, and I also.
Speaker 3:My nesting and surrogacy for that pregnancy was to renovate a bathroom in our house. We obviously hired a contractor contractor, I wasn't ripping out any fixtures, um. But in doing that we found that we had a very slow leak in our house and we had to move out because they found mold in the walls. Um, so my 30 I think it was like 34 week project was hopefully going to be like a two-week bathroom renovation ended up being five months of both bathrooms and a kitchen being completely gutted and rebuilt. So the day after I delivered I left the hospital, went back to my house and directed my family in moving us out of the house into a temporary rental for the summer, and so that was. I don't ever recommend doing that either for any anybody who is pregnant, postpartum anything. Don't. Don't take on major projects like that.
Speaker 4:But thank goodness that you found it all.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, absolutely. Thank goodness we found it all that's right.
Speaker 4:Little blessings in disguise. Okay, so your postpartum recovery went fine. Nothing crazy happened there.
Speaker 3:It was great. I took a full six weeks off. I was very lucky that, since I'm in Massachusetts, we do have paid family medical leave and it had just started in 2021. So I was eligible for six weeks paid. It was, I think, either 60 or 80% of my salary, which is better than nothing. You didn't have that before. No, my other maternity leaves were completely unpaid, unless you had short-term disability, which I believe was even less of your salary and only covered the medical recovery of delivering. So it was six weeks for a vaginal birth, eight weeks for a cesarean. I have only ever delivered vaginally, so I had only ever gotten like that six weeks of medical recovery and then the next six weeks with my kids was completely unpaid. So with the surrogacy, I took the six weeks and then went back to work at six weeks because at that point I was like I'm not, I'm sleeping for the night, I'm not caring for a baby. Why would I take more time, especially if it's unpaid? Right?
Speaker 4:Right, right, I'm still blown away that that was not. Yeah, that that was all in.
Speaker 3:America. I am still blown away that most States don't offer that at all. We're just spoiled because we're California.
Speaker 2:I just yeah, yeah, you don't realize it until you start talking to other people in other States. But yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I. You don't realize it until you start talking to other people in other states. But, yeah, my new thing that I learned today, yeah, um okay, so California's just went up to 90%.
Speaker 3:I.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy to hear that because I feel like what California does, massachusetts does, like a few years later, yeah, Okay, went up to 90.
Speaker 3:That's wonderful. I'm hopeful that we will. We will be going up, not that I'm having any more babies, but I hope that other people get to benefit from that Right, right, exactly.
Speaker 2:It's disability in general. It's just it's disability in general.
Speaker 4:So yeah, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's nice um okay, so now you're gonna now, now when do?
Speaker 4:you start to get the I hate saying it an itch, but like you know, like you're like I want to get back to it.
Speaker 3:So, uh, about six weeks after delivery oh my god, I love you. I the the intended parents. Um, they live in new jersey and they had come to Massachusetts for a family gathering and so I got to see the baby. That's when my kids finally met her in person and I remember saying are you sure you're done, are you sure? And they were like yes, we are very sure we are done.
Speaker 3:And I said, okay, well, I'm going to apply again. But I wanted to double check, because if you are even thinking about a sibling journey, I will pump the brakes and wait. And they, you know they're very content with their family the way it is. And so I said, okay, well, I'm just gonna apply and see what happens. I was actually in the middle of my perinatal mental health certification training as I was applying Wow, because I also have insane ADHD, so I'm like listening on half the screen and filling out my application to carry again on the other side and the agency even they obviously accepted the application and said we're not going to do anything right now because we know that your ob will not send any sort of clearance until you are six months postpartum, right, um, which I then got on the phone, called and said is that really true? And they said, yes, if you got pregnant, naturally that would be one thing, but we cannot advise you.
Speaker 3:Yeah to do this until your body has healed some more. So yeah, I was like, fine, we'll wait. Same agency, same agency. I did all three journeys with the same agency, oh look at you.
Speaker 4:So it's an. It's a decent enough agency okay, it worked all right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, I truly think that one obviously pumping the brakes on that was the right call because my body needed more time. But also, the intended parents I carried for the second and third time are family and I don't think I would have met them if I had moved at the pace that I wanted to right, um, and so you know, like I say, everything always works out the way that it's supposed to. Yeah, and as frustrated as I was at the time because I was ready to go, yeah, it needed to happen that way oh yeah, that's, very sweet so when you start getting profiles, is this the first one that you see, or is it several?
Speaker 3:so we kind of matched a little differently this time. I had gotten a profile and we did our Zoom call. I really liked the couple. They had had a few reservations because my children were so small everyone should be vaccinated for COVID and I said, well, my kids aren't eligible, so that's not anything I can do. And we both kind of agreed to like, take some time and think. And I had posted something on my personal Instagram being like first match call for journey number two. I'm so excited, and my surrogacy agency had reposted it to their story, which I'd obviously given permission to, was like please share. And my intended mother slid into my dms. Um, we joke about this a lot, that like she slid into my dms and then I had a baby for her.
Speaker 3:oh my god it's like the weirdest like story, um, but she had followed me on instagram. My profile had been private because I post my children on there but, um, I saw she had followed my first set of intended parents the surrogacy agency and then somebody else that was involved in the agency and I was like, oh, she must be connected in some way. You know, I'll accept her message, let her follow, I'll follow back and she told me her story. Now I have permission to share details about her journey and what led her to surrogacy In 2020,. She was also pregnant with her first child and it ended up, unfortunately, a loss because her OB office did not have in-person appointments and she had incredible pregnancy complications that we've. She hasn't. I don't think she's ever really gotten a direct answer of what it was. The best that we can come up with is preeclampsia and help syndrome, to the point where she went help syndrome is a liver disorder.
Speaker 3:Basically, her liver was shutting down her liver, not baby her liver, not baby, um, but she had all the preeclampsia symptoms blurry vision, headaches, high blood pressure, upper right quadrant pain. She had them all was calling and I I understand where her doctor was coming from and saying it's safer to stay home, um, at that time, I guess at that time, but it did end up with her um having a pretty severe medical emergency where, um, she was uh, rushed to the hospital and her son was delivered. He unfortunately did not survive because he was without oxygen so long. Yeah, um, and that was at 27 weeks oh god, oh, that you know mama, yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 3:And then she ended up with some pretty significant medical complications after because of that as well, right to the point where she then did not go home for months. She was in the hospital, um and was it?
Speaker 2:can I just, was it mainly liver? Because all of that, or was it it just it's viral it was, it was everything, okay, um they.
Speaker 3:They did end up having to do a hysterectomy to save her life because she had some uncontrolled bleeding and and she was only 30 years old so 30 years old should have had a very healthy and for one reason or another it didn't end up that way and and it wasn't caught in time to save her and her son from experiencing this that's horrific, it's heartbreaking because I've never heard of this.
Speaker 4:Is help syndrome helpable, like when like you know what I mean like when you're if she were to have gone, or if somebody does go? I've never heard of this condition, do we know?
Speaker 3:from what I understand of it, it probably would have been caught on a blood test and most likely she would have been delivered early If it gets severe enough. You're you know you're delivered early, but yeah, they they because they never. I mean, she had a couple of ultrasounds and I think after month four or five, something like that, she was not having in-person care other than her anatomy scan and so it was just. It was just one of those things that she was unfortunately a victim of, the the awful circumstances we were in with COVID, where they really didn't know what to do. Thankfully, when they did her, historically, they were able to save her ovaries. So she both of her, her now living sons, are biologically hers Okay.
Speaker 2:And I have to say one thing about this mom Kudos, and more power to her for going. Yes, this just happened to me. But what am I going to do to make my dreams come true? Like she didn't stop, she, she kept going and through the grace of whoever higher beings, whatever you want to believe in, I'm so, heart is so happy that she was able to go on and that she had you and honestly, I think you know, this is one of those circumstances where not everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 3:There's no reason that her son is not living, um, but there is a reason why we found each other and why she felt brave enough to send me an Instagram message that night, um, and tell a complete stranger her most traumatic experience. And, and in that moment, you know, I had said to my husband I'm going to think about this because I immediately my heart just like felt for her and as a mom, I'm like I can't imagine the pain she feels. And I know if, if I were in her shoes, nothing would have stopped me from having my children either, nothing at all. And so I said I'm going to sleep on it and then I will reach out to the agency to see if this is even feasible for us to be matched together.
Speaker 3:Because, even going into that journey, my number one request was I want someone as close as possible, because I wanted them to be involved. I wanted somebody who could go to the appointments, who, if I did go into labor, could be there as quickly as possible so that they didn't miss the birth of their child. We live an hour apart and the only reason I didn't get their profile is because the clinic they were with had such low BMI requirements that I was considered my BMI was considered too heavy for them by like two points. Oh, like it could have.
Speaker 4:It could have changed it could have changed um, but they could have called you like the bmis. These days are so wild to me. It's like who is that low of a bmi? Like?
Speaker 3:yeah, come on, let's get real I think their bmi requirement was like a 29 and I was at like a 31 which, like we all know, bmi for women is like five pounds, is like one point on bmi like yeah and yeah.
Speaker 4:And also 31 BMI is yeah, you're fine 31 BMI six months postpartum. Wow.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:Add that into it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, and I I mean I I really was like after my first journey, I was like I'm gonna like prioritize my health and I lost a lot of weight, I was working out a lot, like I'd gotten my body to a place where I was like I'm good, like I'm good to do another journey. And and you know so that next day I woke up and I reached out to my matching coordinator and I said I've spoken to this woman on Instagram, I want her profile. And they said you can't because you don't qualify for their clinic. And I said I don't care, I will qualify for their clinic if I have to. This is the family I need to help. And we then had our matching call and I said no clinic is going to transfer me at six months, so we've got a little bit of time. And I said you know, no clinic is going to transfer me at six months, so we've got a little bit of time.
Speaker 3:It was also at this point, november, so I also knew we were going into Thanksgiving and holidays and all that, and so I was like we've probably got a few months where we'll be fine, to which they said we will move our embryo. We're going to call the agency. Find out what. What IVF clinic? They recommend somebody that you could qualify for. We will move our, our clinic. Um, and they did, and you know, they moved their embryo from Boston to Connecticut. Um, yeah, which is a whole wild process.
Speaker 3:I never it is wild process, yes, so wild, um, and, and so we. We matched in November. I did our medical screening in the beginning of January. We transferred February 11th.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, whoa you guys were on it, you were on it big time I, I think, when listening to you talk, the little boy, her first son. He sent the other two to her, he sent them, he sent them through you.
Speaker 3:I I agree completely yep, I, uh I mentioned my. I don't. I have two girls. No, no, did you? I'm sorry? Did you have a boy for her?
Speaker 4:two boys, two boys, oh, two boys.
Speaker 3:Wow, I skipped that part yeah, no they are she is like meant to be a boy, mom, um she, you know three boys she, her oldest, was a boy and now her, her two younger ones are boys, and and I had only carried girls before, so I did not know how boys were was it different?
Speaker 2:I know I'm jumping, but was it a different pregnancy?
Speaker 3:A little bit, a little bit. I mean they've all been different. With their older son I carried I wanted meat all the time, whereas in my first surrogacy I didn't want meat at all. I literally existed on barbecue chicken subs and Cool Ranch Doritos. So I have told them I was like one of these times I'm going to come to your house with a barbecue chicken sub and Cool Ranch Doritos. So I have told them I was like one of these times I'm going to come to your house with a barbecue chicken sub and cool ranch Doritos and see if he likes them, because in my head that's going to be his favorite food.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's so funny. And just a side note, because I've carried two and two, so I've carried two boys, I've carried two girls and I've always could tell like before we even did like blood work and things if it was if it was a boy or girl, because I would crave in and out hamburgers like nobody's business with my son and the only boy I had, and my doctor was like, oh yeah, you're gonna crave more meat because you're lower in iron. And I was like, is that it?
Speaker 4:whatever so you know those myths. They might be true with the girls they might be who knows, they might be. But that's funny I definitely gained a lot more weight with boys too, because of all that meat I.
Speaker 3:I think I gained the most weight with my oldest daughter, because all I wanted was ice cream and fruity pebbles. Um, together.
Speaker 2:It was just like pure sugar sometimes together.
Speaker 3:Oh my god, delicious combination.
Speaker 4:Wow, it sounds pretty good, it sounds like a good sugar high.
Speaker 2:There's a dq great there's a dairy queen thing that they'll put fruity pebbles in for you now. Yeah, so you thought you thought of something there.
Speaker 3:You should have patented it.
Speaker 2:I really should have my god okay, so the this, this second and third are with this other family you transferred it takes. Are they like optimistically cautious? Is she excited? What's happening it?
Speaker 3:was. It was interesting because with my first journey, the second, the test was positive. It was just pure excitement. Okay, with this family, there was a lot of excitement. There was also so much fear, yeah for sure.
Speaker 3:Which I can completely understand. They only had the one embryo and everything that they went through to get to that point was so hard that you know I completely get where the anxiety came from. I also kind of joke that like she needed me because I am trained in this work of perinatal mental health. But, like I already knew, working with bereaved parents means there is so much worry, there's so much anxiety and there's joy too, but it's not the same, and so I think, like we, we found each other. For that reason. Um, I really think it wasn't until we got past week 27 that there was finally an exhale, because there was obviously still a lot of worry but yeah, yeah, 27.
Speaker 2:Wow, that far in over halfway, yeah, wow.
Speaker 4:Do you?
Speaker 2:do you tell them that you get a positive line, or does everybody wait for beta?
Speaker 3:I always ask because I start testing the day I get home from transfer, even though, like logically, I know that that's not possible, but I just don't want to miss.
Speaker 3:Yes, I even found out with both of my kids, like as early as possible, like nine DPO. I was like there's my positive test, um, which is insane. Um, but I, with both, with both couples, I asked like if I, you know, I asked before transfer if I take any tests. Do you want to know or do you want to wait till beta? And they both said, well, the first couple said, if you want to share that we would be happy to know, which of course I did, because I was like I can't sit with this all by myself. Right, yeah, no, it's too much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they had been through it once, had their twins, right, okay, they had their twins. So they, they kind of they knew and and they, we both kind of were, it feels like, looking back on it, we both were so anxious about like not being too much that, like I was too afraid to be like, well, I'm gonna take a test. You guys want to like be on FaceTime while I wait for the results? Or, you know, like we both kind of were like, oh, it's up to you, it's up of, were like oh, I want to be on the phone when I take a test.
Speaker 2:That'd be fun, right, three minutes or something Right.
Speaker 3:It's not that long?
Speaker 2:It's really not that long yeah.
Speaker 3:With the second couple, you know, I kind of I asked the same thing and they said, yes, we want to know either way, because we want to be prepared. If it's going to be negative, right, but we also want to know if it's positive. Um, so I had said, like you know, at some point between day three and five I will start taking tests. She sent me some tests, um, via Amazon. Thank goodness for Amazon. Yeah, and I remember the day I got the positive I I just texted her her first name in all caps and she facetimed me and she said it's positive, isn't it? And I said yes, it's positive, and I showed it to her and we all cried um her in-laws were at the house at that.
Speaker 3:At that point too, and and so it was. It was just such a great moment and I was so glad to share that with them. I think it's really different At least it was for me working with the same-sex couple versus a heterosexual couple, because I could see that she knew what she was missing. She had been through it before. She knew the feeling of getting that positive test. She knew the feeling of every doctor's test. She knew the feeling of you know every doctor's appointment and all those things. So I wanted her to be as involved as I could have her be, so that even if she wasn't the one physically experiencing it, she was with me emotionally through it yeah, so sweet, that's very sweet, so that pregnancy goes pretty good.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, it went pretty well when I was, I think, 26 weeks, the one and only time I've ever had COVID. I got it during that pregnancy. I have been working from home since the world shut down. I have never gone back in person, so I had very little exposure and just happened that, you know, a member of my family got it and it went through the house, um.
Speaker 3:So after that, we did have extra monitoring, which we did find I had a cyst on my placenta, which they did say was probably viral related. Um, but really the only thing that happened was we had extra ultrasounds to monitor it. Um, of course, our first question was what does this mean? Cause I'd never experienced that, I'd never even heard of it. Um, in its worst case, it can affect intrauterine growth. Um, so baby could be smaller. He was not. It didn't really impact anything. He was fine.
Speaker 3:But we were doing weekly ultrasounds and non-stress tests Two different days. I was at the hospital every week, which also meant two different days a week. She was driving to the hospital as well, because she wanted to be there for everything she could. Yeah, and I think really like that's, that's what bonded us to this point where, like, we are family now and, um, you know, we had all of these really amazing talks while I was strapped to all these monitors and we were making sure baby was okay and, um, we, um, we did, towards the end, start to notice with some of the NSTs that things were a little off. Um, he was like the wild child pregnancy he never stopped moving, um, and then, when I was 38 weeks, five days, we were going into an ultrasound and I said to the doctor he is moving, but it's not as much, and that's always, you know, that red flag of like what's happening here.
Speaker 3:So we did extra long ultrasound, we did an NST. This is the one and only ever time I've ever fired a nurse from my care, because with that NST the nurse was like everything looks fine and I said no, no, it's not like if you, we've had weekly NSTs for now 10 weeks. Well, go compare them. Yeah, my intended mom. At one point she took over the conversation because I was getting so upset and she could just see it in my face. Um, and she was just like no, we would like to speak to the doctor. The nurse even said and I will never forget this quote Um, just because you've been pregnant before, it doesn't mean you're an expert.
Speaker 2:Oh, oh snap.
Speaker 3:Get away, which I said, I am not an expert, but I am an expert on this baby because I know how he moves, how he behaves, and this is different.
Speaker 4:You go, girl, way to clap back.
Speaker 3:Thank God, and my my thing has always been these parents are not losing another child. I don't care what I have to do. Right, that is not going to happen. And between the two of us, we actually also got our agency involved. We had our coordinator on the phone and she was also saying like do I need to call legal? Like is this a situation we need to call legal? Okay, and thankfully we did it, and the doctor. Of course, it always happens during shift change.
Speaker 3:So we had to wait for you know report and can't just be in the middle of a shift when it's super quiet, you know. So we waited an hour. So doctor came on and said go home, get your stuff, get your husband's come back. We're inducing tonight. Okay, there and he. He was a 24 hour induction, he was a fun one, um, but it.
Speaker 2:You know, and we did this. Yeah, can I ask a question? So did they ever find out? What was the difference with the NST? What was it? Did the cyst get bigger? Did it just what? Nothing, okay.
Speaker 3:They didn't really figure anything out. It did show that there was a little bit of decreased fetal movement. Okay, I think in a normal pregnancy it wouldn't have been enough to do anything. Okay, because on paper he did pass. Yeah, but given and my intended mom has had been very vocal about her history, okay, because it is important, it's it's her child, it's her husband's child, the same DNA that was her older son, and so you know we were very clear to be like this happened before. We will be advocating for everything we can and the doctors, thankfully, were like he's good enough, like 38, 5, he's healthy, let's induce before there maybe becomes a problem.
Speaker 3:Good, which thankfully we did um you know, after the one and only time I've had delivery complications was this pregnancy um, and I delivered. He was seven pounds, 14 ounces, good, came out screaming, super healthy baby. My placenta would not deliver, no, not when the worst, yes, the worst, the absolute worst. So you know they're trying to get it out cord detaches and then my placenta falls apart oh, no, no, no, they rush you.
Speaker 4:Are you going to surgery?
Speaker 3:no, thankfully, they were able to manually deliver it all, oh, with their hand all the way up to the elbow. Thankfully, the epidural was working okay, and I didn't feel it, I didn't remember it. However, my poor husband was sitting directly across the room watching all of this happen, um, and my intended mom at one point was just like ashley, tell, tell him you're okay. Tell him you're okay Because right they're now witnessing.
Speaker 3:Look Okay. All of it does not look okay. Yeah, and you know, thankfully I was fine, I did not need a blood transfusion, baby was healthy, I was healthy, but it was really the closest I'd ever come to any like real complications. Um and yeah it was really scary.
Speaker 2:They got it all out there, you, and then maybe just did an ultrasound later to see if everything was okay. You didn't have to go into an OR and thank God.
Speaker 3:Thankfully, and that was also the first time I had used a midwife. Um, I I've always been pro, like whoever's in the delivery room is in the delivery room. As long as we all still stay healthy, I don't really care, um, and it just happened that the the doctor was busy and so the midwife came in to deliver us and she was wonderful. But then that happened and of course all the call buttons go off, doctors rush in and thankfully we had the help we needed to make sure that everything was under control.
Speaker 4:And that you were okay. And that I was okay. Yeah, I'm curious did you have to get a DNC before your next transfer? No, wow.
Speaker 2:Wow, they did get it all Wow.
Speaker 3:They got it all. I had an ultrasound at my six week follow-up to just to double check and my OB was like, obviously, if there's anything else in there you probably would know by now. But we're just going to completely be sure.
Speaker 4:Good.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely, um, and thankfully, everything you know was passed during delivery and and there was no complications.
Speaker 2:I don't. Just one more question on this one and then we can move on. Did you have extra postpartum bleeding because of that or no?
Speaker 3:Yes, okay, yes, yeah, I definitely did, and it was all towards the beginning of my postpartum, right, like I think I was done bleeding earlier than I ever had.
Speaker 2:Um, because it was just more at once, at once, yeah, yeah, cause that area, unless they cauterized it is is just going to be a flesh wound inside, right. And just bleed, bleed, bleed and then start to heal itself. So I kind of thought you would have been, but I was interesting, Okay All right, yeah, yeah, I did take um, I did switch from.
Speaker 3:I don't tolerate prenatals with iron Well usually, but I did switch to prenatals with iron just to make sure that you know my, my body recovered appropriately after Good for you, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:Oh, my gosh Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I know there's some a little chaoticness going on, but what's mama doing when baby comes out, like is she crying, screaming? Oh my God? This know there's some a little chaoticness going on, but what's mama doing when baby comes out, like is she crying, screaming? Oh my god, this is so fantastic. What is she doing? And is she down there seeing baby come out?
Speaker 3:she delivered baby oh my gosh, oh my god. I think this is the experience we got, because we had a midwife. Okay, I don't think we would have had with a doctor, right, we also had a birth photographer, which I had never done before and that's so thankful we did, because those the pictures are amazing. I'll send you guys pictures later on but, I, love that the pictures are, I still can't.
Speaker 3:Now we're almost three years later. I still can't look at them without tearing up. We? We finally got to to last push and the midwife said, all right, come down, ashley, you push. And then she said to the mom you pull. And the midwife shoved her, shoved the intended mom's hand up into the birth canal and she delivered her son. Um, does she have a glove on or just her hand? No, just her hand. It was our family.
Speaker 2:One of those like oh, we are family now yeah, she's getting your glue.
Speaker 3:Exactly. I'm like we. We have no, no boundaries here. Like this is.
Speaker 2:We're just what a redeeming moment for that mama yeah, yeah, oh my God, I just want to hug her yeah.
Speaker 3:I know that's awesome, you know, and he comes out, they place him on my stomach, cut the cord, and then mom and dad got to sit down holding him next to me. So which was I always say to people like the best moment at any surrogacy is the moment that the parents meet their child, and so like just to be able to have that moment like literally right next to me, I just like.
Speaker 3:I was overcome with emotion. They were overcome with emotion and I truly think it was the first time in the full nine months she ever totally relaxed.
Speaker 2:Probably.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 4:She could finally breathe yeah.
Speaker 3:She could finally breathe, she had her baby and everybody was okay yeah. And it was just. That's magical. I was going to be done. That was going to be my last one, okay? And I said to her the next day in postpartum don't find another surrogate. When you guys are ready, I will be ready. And she said we will talk again in three months. I'm not holding you to this. And I said that's fine, but I'm still going to say this in three months.
Speaker 4:That's awesome, I did I love that. Part two coming tomorrow.
Speaker 2:If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to give us a like and subscribe. Also, check out the link to our YouTube channel in the description, and be sure to also check out our children's book my Mom has Superpowers, sold on Amazon and Etsy.