Stop. Sit. Surrogate.

Surrogacy Through a Sister's Eyes: Love, Loss, and PCOS

• Kenedi & Ellen Smith • Season 5 • Episode 31

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A daughter remembers the rodeo comment. Amanda was nine when classmates, teachers, and even other parents struggled to understand why her mom was carrying a baby for someone else. That early clash with stigma sent her searching for answers—how embryos work, why genetics matter, and what safety really looks like—while her family navigated emergency deliveries, NICU visits, and a community learning on the fly.

Years later, the roles flipped. After a lifetime of “easy” pregnancies around her, Amanda faced irregular cycles and a PCOS diagnosis. She takes us inside the real cadence of IUI: dawn ultrasounds, letrozole and menopur, trigger timing, and the quiet choice to keep it private. You’ll feel the weight of a Black Friday clinic visit before hosting Thanksgiving, a Christmas Day beta drawn into the wrong vial, and the constant tug between hope and self-protection. Her second pregnancy arrived spontaneously eleven months postpartum—proof that fertility doesn’t follow neat rules—and it came with ER scares, a toddler at home, and the kind of fatigue most people don’t see.

We compare surrogacy then and now, from four-embryo transfers to today’s standards, and talk about how intended parents can transform the experience by acknowledging the surrogate’s kids. We also dig into what real support looks like when a sibling becomes a surrogate: legal caution, money anxiety, and the emotional work of staying steady in a tough delivery room. Amanda shares grounded advice for families, intended parents, and anyone facing infertility: seek facts, set boundaries, and let your plan fit your life, not the internet’s timeline.

If this conversation moved you, follow the show, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more families can find clear, compassionate guidance on surrogacy and fertility.

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https://stopsitsurrogate.com

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome. We are a mother-daughter podcast about all things surrogacy. Together, we have brought eight beautiful babies into this world. And we would like to share through education and knowledge about surrogacy with those who want to educate themselves on the topic. This is Top Fit Surrogate. Have you ever thought about growing your family but aren't sure what your options are? Or maybe you're someone who wants to help others experience the joy of parenthood? That's where Northwest Surrogacy Center comes in. Northwest Surrogacy Center is a full service surrogacy agency that guides intended parents and surrogates through every step of the journey, with compassion, transparency, and personalized care. From matching to legal support to emotional wellness, they make what can feel an overwhelming feeling deep, really human and supported. Whether you're considering surrogacy to grow your family or you're ready to become a surrogate yourself, Northwest Surrogacy Center is there to walk beside you every step of the way. Visit NorthwesturrogacyCenter.com at NW at SurrogacyCenter.com to learn more and take the first step towards something truly life-changing. Northwest surrogacy center. Love makes family.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey everybody, welcome back to Stop Isit Surrogate with Kennedy and Ellen. Today I am podcasting with my two daughters. One is my co-host and the other one's our guest. We're gonna let her introduce herself. Take it away, Amanda.

SPEAKER_03:

Hi, uh, I'm Amanda Henninger. Um, I am Ellen's secondborn and Kennedy's older sister by four-ish years.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um yeah, happy to be here. Thanks for having me. So nice. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01:

So fun. And maybe maybe a little weird, but super fun. Um okay, so I mean like I mean, we'll start off with probably just talking about how so you you're four years older than me, and I was five when mom started surgery, right? I was five.

unknown:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

So you were nine pushing ten.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I think I was in remember?

SPEAKER_03:

I think I was in fourth or fifth grade. I um I distinctly remember a lot about the um triplet pregnancy, which was obviously the second one. And because I think I was in like sixth grade at that point. Um, I I I I mean I I remember a lot. I'm sure I remember more than you. Oh, for sure because you were you were a small child. But um, yeah, I remember a lot. I remember mom first talking to us about wanting to do it. I remember um many conversations with friends and uh community members who maybe didn't um understand what was happening. Uh yeah, I remember a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

It was a child who had those conversations with friends and community members.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, I won't like name names, but they sound some, yeah. Were they teachers? Were they uh some teachers, yeah, for sure. Um friends at school um who just didn't really understand what it was, understandably so. Um but I distinctly remember uh in sixth grade, our teacher who was wonderful, yes, who's wonderful man, he um he said, you know, if anybody wants to have their parents come in to do like a talk and explain to the class what they do for work, like just come up, let me know. And like I obviously knew that you had a nine to five job and like this was not your quote unquote work, but um, I think I just kind of wanted to see what he would say. And so I went up to him like at a recess one time and I was like, Hey, um, I'd love to have my mom come in and talk to everybody. And he was like, Sure, what does she do? And I was like, Well, it's called surrogacy. Um, and I gave like a cute little spiel, and um, I remember his his sweet little face. I shouldn't have put him in that position because I knew the answer would be no. Oh, really? Like, yeah, oh yeah. I was I never knew of this. Uh-uh. Uh like oh, I I I think I remember like coming home and telling you, Mom, and you kind of like hand waved it, like, of course, Amanda. But um, but I remember like seeing the panic in his eyes of like, what do I say to this 11-year-old girl who like just wants her mom to come in and like other students' parents have come in come in? And so he compared it to a rodeo. And he was like, Well, if there was a if there was someone's parent who worked at a rodeo, but other parents really didn't like rodeos, and they really had a lot of strong feelings about rodeos, I wouldn't want to bring that parent in who does rodeos because it could cause problems with other parents. I think that's a terrible analogy, but the poor man was on the spot. Terrible, but the poor man was on the spot.

SPEAKER_00:

So, I did. I will interject here. You had a sixth grade party extravaganza in the parking lot where parents would come and set up booths for your sixth grade party, and you guys would go around to the different booths. And I was this was June. I was delivering them in August. So I was very pregnant, massively pregnant. And we set up a karaoke booth. I do remember this, yeah. Yes, and the kids just couldn't wait to get to our booth because um all the small things was like the biggest from Blinquid A2. Oh my god. And all these kids were singing it and having a great time. We couldn't get them to move to the next section, but here I am with my big old belly, and you know, right.

SPEAKER_03:

And so people saw you, kids would see you, and like people would ask me, or like friends' parents would ask me, like, are you excited for like your brother or sister or brothers and sisters? And I was like, actually. Um and so there were definitely it, it was definitely a um a bit of a like forced growing up where like I had to be able to have those conversations with not only my peers but with adults and to explain to them like the science behind it and actually what was happening. Um, because they think that like mom is giving up my brother or sister.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, right. Cause it that wasn't IVF really wasn't talked about much back then.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and even if it was, I still think people just didn't understand the science behind it and they didn't understand like how could you, especially if they knew it was for gay men, which that was a whole other thing. Oh, yeah, that was a whole other thing. Anna worms, but um, even if if they knew it was for gay men, they're like, well, clearly there wasn't an egg there. Right. So clearly it must have been Ellen. So clearly, and I do remember a couple of adults thinking, like, oh, Amanda's misinformed, like Amanda clearly doesn't understand what's happening. Like, like they were kind of like, okay, honey, like that's not how it works. Like, because they just didn't understand. And like, luckily, I was secure enough in my own knowledge of the process to not like freak out at you know them misunderstanding me.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, but so okay, it was yeah, it's a little straightforward.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I wanna I wanna ask then. So, because you just said like you were confident in your own knowledge of it. So, like, how did you get the knowledge of it? Like you said in the beginning if mom had conversations with us, obviously, I don't remember these conversations. So, like, did she there weren't books at the time, you know? So, like, do you remember the conversation?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, you guys have helped change that. Um, no, so I do. Um, so yeah, I well, yeah, a couple things. I remember the night, maybe it wasn't the first time you brought it up to Mike, mom, uh, your husband, my stepdad, but it was certainly the first time Brett and I had heard about it. And I remember Mike had a lot of feelings and emotions, and Mike, there was tension. There was. Um, and I remember Brett was not having it. Yeah, he was like three and a half years older than me, so he was, you know, preteen, yeah, teenage-ish. Yeah, and he was not having it. He was like, uh-uh, this is no. Um, and I remember, I mean, I was like in my bunk bed, we were all just kind of like yelling round table. The D word was thrown out several times. Oh, was it?

SPEAKER_00:

Several times. Yikes. Um, was I there? I I'm not sure. You might you might have been out playing with stuff or watching TV, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

You weren't actively involved in the conversation, but I remember um, yeah, I remember like a lot of kind of like raised voices, tension. And I remember saying to you, mom, like we were all just like peppering you with with arguments and like reasons against, and you were just like knocking them back, like no, no, no. Um, and my big thing was like, well, because it because again, I just didn't understand what we were talking about. My big thing was like safety, and is this even not necessarily just you, just like, is this even safe to do? And so I remember asking, like, okay, so they're gonna take someone else's egg and someone else's sperm and they're gonna mix it together. What if that egg or that sperm has an illness or some type of disease or something, and then they put it in you, and now you're gonna get sick? Like, what what are we talking about? And and I do remember you like you gave me a look when I said that, and I was like, you probably think I'm so stupid. And you were like, No, I'm sitting over here wondering how you got so smart to ask such a like an intelligent question. Yeah, um, and so there was that was the first of many conversations, I think. But um, but I think really that experience and like that first conversation is kind of in and of itself in a nutshell, like what it really is anytime someone's exposed to surrogacy, like you just don't understand it, and we tend to um fear what we don't understand. And so once we understand what's happening, it's less scary and it's um it doesn't seem quite so foreign. And yeah, and and I definitely remember the argument, or I guess mom's reasoning resonating with me that she was adopted, which I had always known. Right. And that because you were adopted, you wanted to help another family in a similar way that you could um by giving them a child that they could not otherwise who was genetically attached to them and who that they could not otherwise have. And so um I just when when you put it in that light of like, I just want to help people have a family. I was like, okay, and you're not gonna like you're not gonna be unsafe about it. Okay, great, super weird, but like live your life. Um and and and I remember you reassuring us that like it's like we didn't have to do anything, we weren't like no responsibility was on us. Um and and yeah, it it was it was it was an adjustment to get used to at first, just because literally had never heard of such a concept. Right. Um, but like once once I once it was explained to me, yeah, uh, you know, it was easy enough to like move forward.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Well, I my god, my mind's like going like 16 different directions. Because it's so interesting, it's so funny because like we grew up together. We've been doing this podcast for four years. Never have I like been like, Amanda, what would your experience like? Because like I know no one asks, no one asks Amanda, but I I don't have knowledge. But you have but right, you have but you have so you have so many more memories than I do. Like literally the only first the only memory I have of the first journey was going to MBC's NBC Suites because that's where they were staying. I think maybe it was near mom's end of the pregnancy. Yes, and you know, one of the dads the dad with blonde hair came up and he looked like a creepy man, like uh from the water. And like you were scared, like petrified.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep, literally for like years that scarred you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's like it scarred me, and I don't know why, but I was like five. So like you like it's just so cool because you can literally remember what it's like mom having to come home, or you didn't even come home for your trans for your first transfer, right, mom? You were at a hotel or something, correct?

SPEAKER_03:

Stayed at a hotel. I I remember I remember you being gone. I remember um shots. I definitely remember oh yeah, I remember, I remember the shots process. Like I wasn't involved, obviously, but I remember that being a thing. I remember with the triplets, mom, you it was really cute. You wanted to like do something for Jason and Terry as like this as like the holidays happened. And so you were like, I'm gonna paint something holiday on my belly. Yeah, so funny. And so we tried painting a shamrock on your giant belly, yes, we did, and it looks so bad. So I don't think you sent that photo. It was not it was photos were burned. Yeah, I I didn't even remember that. I was gonna ask can we have the photo? That was bad. So bad. Uh I wish I could maybe remove it from my brain, but um it was bad. It was so bad, but it was a sweet gesture. Um I mean, I remember I remember when you delivered the first baby, and I remember um my dad was there watching us.

SPEAKER_00:

Like he he filled in at the last minute because we were supposed to go be induced, have a baby, Mike come home, feed you guys dinner, you'd be home from school, and it went south. Yeah, he did not go that way. So he called your dad, and your dad in a heartbeat came over, and it was, you know, I mean, he did what he had didn't he ordered pizza, I believe it was, and you guys and he got you guys settled down and then Mike came home after I was out of surgery. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and we had a great, we had a great night with my dad, and it was fine. And I remember Mike coming home and looking weird. Yeah, and I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know, I was like, huh, Mike looks off. Um, but he seemed like he he didn't say anything to us like that. And then played it, played it cool. And then um I remember months, years later, um, my dad saying how much he knew at the time when he was watching us, and how like he had to keep it together and he had to keep a straight face, which like to his credit he did because I had no idea that there was even a possibility that something was wrong with you. Yeah, and um he kept it together, but he he did tell me he was like, I had the thought, like, am I gonna have to tell my kids that their mom passed away? Like, am I gonna have to break that news to my kids? Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Um no, so it was like serious. Um and we were at a little community hospital, and they just I was their first surrogate, they had no idea. Right. And here goes this woman in a crash coat, just a crisis, and what the hell are you gonna do with it? And they did it the best of their ability, and they they pulled it through. They did.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it was not um very not an ideal situation.

SPEAKER_01:

You didn't know at the time that mom was like dying.

SPEAKER_03:

No, because I was like nine, ten, and so I'm breathted to know, like, yeah, not gonna send that information home.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, no, I know, but like I'm just shocked to like I get like me not knowing because I'm like five, so like how are we gonna do that? But like like the adult, like 14 or whatever, like not knowing for months or for years, like you said. Like, that's that was pretty unwrite.

SPEAKER_03:

Like when mom came home and it was like all said and done, I think it was kind of like like, hey, that was pretty serious. Like, mom's not doing well. And then that was when you had to you lost so much blood that you had to like beef up your iron, so you were just like slamming kale. I was yeah, so I remember kale, potato skins, yeah. It was it was aggressive how much you were eating, and I was like, This looks gross, mom. Um yeah, but yeah, so I remember I remember the aftermath, and but yeah, the adults didn't kind of like tell me what was happening in that moment until like months, months later. But um Wow. So I I mean I remember that. I I I remember a lot of stuff, Tim.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you remember meeting the first couple the first time?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know that I have a specific memory of meeting the first couple the first time. I have specific memories of like them coming to visit or seeing them. I knew who they were. Um I have Were they nice to you? Yes. Okay, yes. Um, I don't remember them being I don't remember one of them being terribly warm.

SPEAKER_01:

Correct. Um was that the blonde hair? Correct.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. I don't remember him being terribly warm. And I think looking back, I I think if I had been older, I might have said, like, hmm, how are you going to be with a child, sir? Um, but you know, like everyone grows into parenthood in their own way, I guess. But um, yeah, I don't remember him being terribly warm or like good with kids. Yeah. The other one was sweet and was like much more like willing to like get on the floor and play with us.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I mean, I remember oodles about Jason and Terry. Um and I I do remember the third couple, mom, for you, but yeah, okay, so give me your ages. You were roughly nine or ten, like 11, 12. Okay. Because those were back to back, right, mommy? Yeah. Yeah. And then I think I was like 15, 15, 16.

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, so if you were 15 or 16, our brother was like a girl. A girl could like off on college. He was in college, yeah. I literally don't remember that. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I was in high school. Yeah. Um, and when I was in high school, Brett, Brett was in college. Um, right, yeah. And I do remember this, not to just like not let you ask any questions, but this is. So when mom was transferring the third couple, the third journey.

SPEAKER_01:

The one where she loses the babies. I lose them. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

I lose them, I lose a set of twins. I'm and then I go in and I get pregnant again with a set of twins, and once you lose one.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't remember which transfer of those two. Okay. But there was some transfer. And we were supposed to find out that day, like in the afternoon, if it took you were like gonna get your your blood results.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

And so I remember leaving fifth period biology, and I never did this, and I went to the bathroom with my cell phone, which was very not allowed.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh no, Amanda, Amanda was very school. I was very like watching class. Amanda was like, Oh, I have I'm on time, I'm seven minutes early.

SPEAKER_03:

Follower. Um, but so like I snuck my little cell phone into the bathroom and and I called you and I was like, Did it take? And and you were like, Yeah, it took. And I was so excited. And I went back to um, I went back to my to class and like my friend who I still talk to today, actually. She um she was like, Did it work? And I was like, It worked. And so like we had a cute little moment. So once I was a teenager, like all my friends knew and understood, and nobody thought it was weird or any maybe they did, but they it nobody like was like weird to me to me about it, right? Um, so yeah, I remember like being more invested in like the actual steps of the process by the third one because like I understood we're transferring and is it gonna take? And the HCG needs to double and all that. So um, and I was in biology, so it was only just learning for school.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And so, okay, so now I have another mom, you can pop in and ask questions anytime, but I have so many. Go ahead. Just like because I'm really just telling mom about her life. So like all the things that I have mini memories on. Clearly, you have a bigger picture of them. So, like, for example, when mom almost died the second time with the triplets. Like I just remember Yeah, I just remember grandma, I was sleeping on the couch. I remember grandma came and like I just had woken up and literally she was like shutting the front door because mom was being wheeled off in like an ambulance. Yeah. So like but you were there. Like do you remember early morning.

SPEAKER_03:

It was early morning. I was wearing um a a spaghetti strap tank top that is relevant. Remember the it's relevant.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

It's relevant. It was light blue. Okay. So it was Okay. This this is why I'm so good at holding grudges because like I don't forget.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So I was wearing a blue spaghetti strap tank top, and like I was I was at the point where like I was starting to get some some little buds, and like maybe I shouldn't have been wearing a little tank top like that. But these like 10 firemen come into the house and start wheeling mom out. And I just remember being like, I wish I wasn't in this particular tank top. Yeah. This feels skimpy. Um concerned about you, obviously, mom, of course. But um, but I do remember the tank top. And yeah, I remember you like being wheeled out in the gurney, and I was like, What's going on, guys?

SPEAKER_00:

Um and I remember clustered the one fireman, because you know how our bathroom's set up in the master bathroom, it's a little narrow.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

They tried to get the stretcher in there, and the one paramedic who was in control of me couldn't quite fit in the bathroom. And yeah, right. And so they had to get me on the gurney before he really could start working on me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Working on you. I thought you were just like bleeding. Were you on conscious? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, didn't know that. Yes, conscious. Yeah. Just a massive amount of blood, a hemorrhage. I it and we've talked about that online. Uh yeah. So and I begged, please take me back to UCI because they were gonna take me to placentralinda. Oh, yeah, no, oh no. And I said, they're still there. I just had these babies and they're still there. I need to be back there. And um, they called it in and they were like, Oh yeah, bring her down here. And so I went there and and the couple didn't even know the d triple dads didn't even know about it until blood was hung, and yeah, we were already doing that route. Yeah, because it wasn't they they needed to worry about their babies, not me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I get that. Um, yeah, I just I just remember you being taken away though.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't yeah, I don't really remember too much of the severity of it, just like she was just the one morning that Brett didn't have to get up, Amanda didn't have to get up for sports, nobody had to get up for sports, and I was so excited to just be able to sleep. Yeah, and then that happened.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm like, what are you saying? Our lives work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um okay, so I'm curious on on okay, so when mom gives birth, right, because we talk about this, we don't talk about it as much now, but like with the closure hour. Right. Oh yeah, right. So do you remember clearly you do, but like do you remember going and like needing all the babies? Was that impactful for you? Did that help you close out the chapter for you? We'll be right back. But first, I want to take a quick moment to talk about something close to my heart, helping families grow through surrogacy. If you've ever thought about becoming a surrogate or if you're an intended parent ready to start your journey, Paying It Forward Surrogacy is here to guide you every step of the way. At Paying It Forward Surrogacy, you're not just a number. You're supported, celebrated, and connected with real people who've walked this path before. Whether you're just starting to explore or ready to take the next step, they'll make sure you feel informed, empowered, and cared for from day one. Visit Paying It Forward Surrogacy.com to learn more. That's Payingit Forward Surrogacy.com because every journey to parenthood deserves heart, honesty, and the right support. Now let's get back to the episode.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't remember meeting baby one.

SPEAKER_05:

Correct. Yeah, me.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know that I did. Okay. Okay. Um I obviously have met the triplets numerous times. I don't remember the first time I met them because they were in the NICU. That was a whole thing.

SPEAKER_00:

It was after a soccer game.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, you remember mom. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that she played in and we all went down. How funny. Well, I remember seeing them in the incubators. And we got to go into the step-down hole. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03:

I just that I don't have that memory. Um that's funny. You think I would remember that one because that's kind of memorable, but I don't remember that one. I distinctly remember uh meeting baby number three because that one was kind of a fight.

SPEAKER_04:

That was a fight.

SPEAKER_03:

And then the nurse came in like seven minutes early and kind of like grew into the end of it and was really weird and awkward. Um, I do remember meeting that baby. Um, and actually for that one, it was um helpful to get some closure on that because the relationship had gone so south, yeah, yeah, and we we knew like we're not seeing this baby again, like we're not going to have a relationship with this baby. So it was nice for me to at least just like acknowledge, like, okay, here's the baby, baby's good, like mom did her part, and like go go have a good life, baby. Um, yeah, but but honestly, I when I was the youngest, I I didn't meet that baby, and I don't think I don't think I really had two thoughts about it. I was like, Yeah, mom had the baby because the baby was never coming back anyway. So it's not like I felt like I missed something. Um, if I had been promised to meet the baby and then didn't get to, yeah, probably different. I mean, that's a that's a an expectation that wasn't met, so that's different. But um, but no, I think that one I was just like, oh, okay, mom's back.

SPEAKER_00:

My my my my mentality changed between number one and number two surrogacies. Number one, it was I'm doing this, I'm not involving any of you. You shouldn't, it shouldn't affect your life, but it did affect your life. Um, and number two, no, I'm picking this couple, it's not being picked for me. My family is gonna be involved. This is gonna be a good journey because we're all gonna benefit from of it. So that's and the third one was really just I hate I I wanted to help somebody, but I I I wanted to go to nursing school. So that was that one.

SPEAKER_03:

That was like and there were there were circumstances beyond anyone's control with the losses.

SPEAKER_00:

So we did what we did, and I was I was older too, so it was like I had to get my shot in there so I could finish that last one.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Yeah, clock was ticking. Yep. Um, I'm gonna transition it now. How how was it okay? So you're a daughter of a surrogate, right? I'm gonna end it like I'm gonna end this chapter like this. You're a daughter of a surrogate. Do you think that being a daughter of a surrogate, did it positively impact you? Did it negatively impact you? Did it not impact you?

SPEAKER_03:

Uh I I mean, obviously a positive impact. Um, I think anytime we can get more lived experience and we can more deeply understand something that we didn't understand before, it's a positive experience. I was deeply positively impacted by the relationships we got. Um, we still talk to Jason and Terry. I mean, uh in law school, mom uh we went and got happy hour with Terry and uh with Jason, and he was asking me about like what I was gonna do, and I had a job lined up and we talked about that. And he even hooked me up with um a surrogate lawyer who was a surrogacy attorney. Yes, and I went to downtown LA and like had a meeting with him to be like, hey, what's this like? Because I was considering like, do I want to be a surrogacy lawyer? Yeah. Um, so just like like good people we met, um, good experiences, just a greater knowledge of like what surrogacy is um and how it works. And yeah, I I I really if there was any negative, it was certainly like widely outweighed by the positive.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally fair. And and the the Jason did send each of you when you had your first baby huge stuffed animal, like huge stuffed animal there.

SPEAKER_03:

Like he sent me graduation gifts, I mean, like college, law school, like they've really been kind of just like a um like an uncle or you know, like like the the family. The distant unclean uncle. Yeah, like like our like an Aunt Sue type type character. Um so yeah, they're just like, and now they're adult children. They are um like I like follow them on Facebook and stuff, which is really weird. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, totally positive, and probably most from the good relationships that we got out of them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I agree. Okay, now transitioning to now your sister is like, hey, I'm gonna be a surrogate. I I feel like you had strong at the age of, hold on, at the age of well, I was like what 21 pushing 22. Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, correct. Yeah, yes, age is just a I had strong feelings. Yes, I did. Um well, I have I am your older sister, I've always been your older sister. Um, and with that comes an air of you are young, you do not know what you are doing, and I know what I am doing, and I therefore know what you should do. And you should listen to me. Especially if your name's Amanda, yeah. Well, um, yeah, and uh and you're you had Ashton super young. I did.

SPEAKER_01:

You had um a big roller coaster right after his birth, and I had a lot of I had a lot of things going on like in my personal life and like mentally, and like a lot of growing up that needed to happen, and it happened very qu in some aspects it happened very quickly, but like it was just a lot. It was very it was a very overwhelming time, yes.

SPEAKER_03:

And your early 20s, your 20s, your your your the entire trajectory of your life is completely different than mine. Oh yeah like completely different than mine. I mean, I went kindergarten to law school and then I got a job at a law firm and just you know went on my merry way. Your life has not looked like that, and and me being the rule follower and like the yeah, you do this and then you do this and then you do this. Um it's always been difficult for me to understand when people take a different path, just because I feel safe in the you do this and then you do this and then you do this. With order instruction. With order, yes, I love order. I know. Um and you took a different route, which is great, but um certainly when you first said it, I was like, oh god, like and I was in law school when you were when you were doing that. Um, or no, I was an attorney. No, you were you didn't live at home.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, you were I was an attorney.

SPEAKER_03:

All right, you were yeah, um, because I graduated law school when you were pregnant with Ash. So I I was a full-on attorney at that point and working in family law at a firm, and I definitely was utterly terrified of the legal implications. The like Kennedy's gonna sign legal contracts and she's going to bind herself legally, and there's going to be tons of money involved, and there's going to be tons of rules and clauses and regulations on her, and how's this gonna affect Ashton? And how is this gonna impact her relationship with mom and Mike? I don't know. It just there were so many unknowns, and I was it was a big decision, yeah. And I was very nervous that you were not um thinking through. Correct. Yeah, meant mentally.

SPEAKER_00:

It was just I'm doing it, that's it. How do I go forth? That that was it. I was like, oh crap, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Even though mom's the one who was like, so you just popped out a baby. Yeah, you can be a surrogate. She's the one that told me, go do it, Kennedy, go do it.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, yeah, saying that and then actually like signing a contract are different things. But I know, but no, I mean, right, you you had exposure to it. It wasn't like you were coming into this, right? Not knowing no one you knew had ever been a surrogate. Like you obviously we had we had the the experience with the experiences with mom. So yeah, but I was still like, oh god, here we go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, and that last one was definitely well, I will, and I I will say I've said this to you multiple times, but like the last journey, and everybody knows that one. My sister played a huge role in like keeping me in check with the legalities of things, which I'm really grateful for, because like when your emotions are heightened, you just want to be a biatch, like to no end, and no one was there supporting me, like outside of my family. And so really like like you two were like the reason I like got through it for the most part, like mentally stable.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It was that one was rough. Um, it was rough. It was there was a time, mom, I think, where it was like every day.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03:

You and I were fielding phone calls, text messages, and we were just like, oh my god, like how do we how do we get this baby out of her?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like it was wild. The minute I walked in the delivery room, it was still so on edge that we didn't know what was happening. And I just she hung up the phone and I'm like, what? And boom, she just said it out. I was like, oh, okay, we're doing that. Okay, here we go. And then and then it was just, oh Christ, keep your keep your cool, keep her cool, just get through it. Just get through it. Right. You had to like physically be in the room.

SPEAKER_01:

And yeah, yeah. The rough one. But aside from that, I'm trying to think. You actually met my first two IPs. I did.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You went to lunch with the first one. So I went to dinner.

SPEAKER_01:

I went oh, oh yes. When after she was born when everybody went to Olive Garden. Yes. Yes, we went to Olive Garden. That's when the first couple was here. We did an ultrasound for them, and they wanted to. And then they went to the mall and they got you a gift. They did. Yes. They did. Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

And then we went to someone was here for like work.

SPEAKER_01:

That would be the first couple again. First couple.

SPEAKER_03:

That was the first couple. And we went to dinner. Pencino, I think, or something. Yes, that's where it was. And like Brett came. Yeah, everybody.

SPEAKER_01:

That's Brett because Brett got a job with him. Because Brett worked. Because Brett worked with him. I got Brett a job.

unknown:

That's right.

SPEAKER_00:

You introduced Brett. Brett's on qualifications got him the job. You introduced him. Yes, okay, yes, but Brett took your horn.

SPEAKER_03:

Woo woo. Okay, just making sure. But yes, um, I met both of those couples numerous times. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

And so I don't even, yeah. I don't know what I don't know where else to go with that.

SPEAKER_00:

But like can I you over obviously with her doing the journeys and younger, obviously, with me, and you had a really good sense of self and understanding of what was going on when I was doing it. And you kind of touched on the the main difference, I think, was now you're an adult seeing your adult sibling doing this, and now you're worried about contracts and the legal legality of it and the money, money that's going to be changing hands. And is this a good thing for her? And what about her son? And maybe things are flashing in your head, mom almost lost her life twice. Wait a minute, there's this little baby that she's got. What's happening there? So I think as an adult, you probably saw it differently and maybe have more concerns about it, which makes sense. Totally makes sense. But am I on track there?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Well, yeah, that yeah, that's a good point. I mean, I now as an adult in my mid-20s, I certainly knew everything that had happened with you in greater detail. The things that I wasn't privy to when they were actually happening because I was so young. So, yes, at that point I had all the context of all three of your journeys and understood all the adult things that had happened. And so I definitely knew there were a lot of risks physically, emotionally, financially, uh in every way. Yeah, there were so many risks. Um, and so yeah, and I, you know, I was a new attorney, and so everything, everything was scary. Um because everyone was suing everyone in my world. So I definitely was nervous, nervous for that. But um, yeah, yeah, had I had a different perspective with Kennedy because I was older.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, okay, I'll ask one more question on this, and then we're gonna we'll we'll go to the next chapter. But um, have you noticed any differences between mom's experiences and mine?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I think the most like immediate obvious one is that no one's letting a surrogate transfer three embryos nowadays.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. It was four. Yeah, it was four.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, four, excuse me. Um no one's no one's stuffing that many embryos in anyone. Um so that obviously is you know, the the chance of multiples for you, Ken was much less.

SPEAKER_01:

Much less.

SPEAKER_03:

Um God. I mean, the process was largely the same. Um there was no real change there, and then just every I guess journey was its own thing and it was different, and like how involved the parents were or or where the parents were located. So, Kennedy, you had two international mom never had an international, right? Um, and then your third one, Kennedy, was down the road. That was great, which mom also never had. Right. And so I had a Long Beach. They were in Long Beach, third one, Long Beach. I didn't know that. I didn't know they were in Long Beach 100%.

SPEAKER_00:

Then they moved to Palm Springs.

SPEAKER_03:

I thought okay, I thought it was Palm Springs.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, okay, okay. Um that was one of my wishes for the third one. I need him close by. Oh, how funny. And then don't we regret it? We like regretted. I was anticipating birthday parties, going to a birthday party, going to a right, because had the triplets been closer.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, right, that would have been wildly different.

SPEAKER_03:

But didn't get that right. That's okay. Yeah, that's okay. Well, mom and I did go to the triplets second birthday party in Georgia. So we flew there, it was so fun.

SPEAKER_01:

That's kind of cool, yeah. Cause like, how old were you at that time?

SPEAKER_03:

13, 14, okay. Yeah, yeah. It was 20th grade.

SPEAKER_01:

And did you willingly want to go? I just remember being really jealous because me and dad went to Alaska to go see dad's family instead. We did. And we surprised them. But I just remember getting pictures of you guys going to the Coca-Cola like factory museum thing, and I was so freaking jealous. To this day, I'm still jealous.

SPEAKER_03:

Honestly, that trip was one of my favorite, some of my favorite memories with you, mom, because it was just like, how often do we you and I have never taken a trip with the two of us. Yes. And like it was a long trip, it was a cross-country trip. We got Dunkin' Donuts, we we had the steak and shake. Yeah, I mean, uh like and we got to see the triplets and so much eating, and got to see the triplets, and like got to see their house and like where they lived, and like I had never been to Georgia, and just yeah, so it was a really cool trip for a lot of reasons. Um yeah, but that but right, it it would have been special to be able to have kids close by to do like yeah, just drive to the birthday party.

SPEAKER_00:

But but then I did go to their 20th birthday party and surprise them, and then I did go to one. Of their uh graduations from college, like so we did reunite all of us, including Amanda, on the Jennifer Hudson show.

SPEAKER_01:

So that was their two that was a surprise.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's it it's been one of those where wow, we really didn't believe it. You went to Disneyland with them when they were and they did uh their dad stayed in it with me, they didn't know I was gonna be there. Yeah, me and Nikki had a special meet and greet with us. Yeah, that was really fun.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, no, so there's just been so much um maybe less frequent con, maybe less physical contact just because of they always live so far away, but like the quality, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, the quality, exactly 100%. Um do so growing up with a woman who is so fertile, right? Like, and just like clearly just is fine with pregnancy. We're gonna put that on your on your gravestone, mom.

SPEAKER_03:

So fertile. Please do.

SPEAKER_01:

But I'm I'm curious because did you grow up ever thinking about like, oh, like about infertility or about fertility like issues that might arise when you want to start a family? Did you that did I ever cross your mind or you're like, oh, mom did it, I can do it, it's totally fine.

SPEAKER_03:

I I had a very unrealistic expectation of my own ability to have children. Uh my mom can get pregnant so easily, she has babies for other people. And one time it was triplets, and she did all that just fine, and she has three kids of her own. And my sister um had no problems with her pregnancies either, and she did a lot of them. And yep, the women in my family, we can have some babies, so we're I'm gonna be just fine. Right. Yep. Wow. And was that the case? That was that was not the case, no. Um, so that was uh a rude awakening um in my own world.

SPEAKER_00:

We can cut it out if you want to, because I may not even know the answer to this. When did you realize oh wait, I may we may need some intervention here?

SPEAKER_03:

January 2021 was when um we like really um started trying to have a baby. Um and then pretty immediately, um maybe not maybe immediately is the wrong word, but um pretty shortly thereafter it became obvious that like things were amiss. I was not having regular periods. I was, I mean, it was like 70 days in between periods, like it was just it was a mess. Um can I ask?

SPEAKER_01:

Because I remember growing up, I was so jealous because you got to go on the cool birth control, where like you only had like a period like three times a year. No, like I was so jealous. I was like, I want that, but it wasn't working for me. So did you like think maybe like that was like is that what was happening?

SPEAKER_03:

I had no idea what was going on. I I had been on birth control for a long time, um, because I had Oberian cis when I was a teenager, and so I had just been on birth control and hadn't really thought about it for like a couple decades, um, almost at that point. And so um yeah, it was it was probably like six months into trying. I was like, this is uh this is not going swimmingly. Um and so then kind of started started, I aggressively started um advocating for myself because I absolutely hate the healthcare system. And you really you really do have to like force people to take you seriously. Um and so yeah, I kind of forced the issue and uh made people listen to me. Which is okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's sad, it sucks that that's what we have to do, you know. Um, but it's for sure. Good for you, like yeah, like seriously, because otherwise you probably just would have been aside for a longer time.

SPEAKER_00:

And being very calm in delivery.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, you know, maybe I um I certainly wasn't calm during that time a lot, but um, yeah, it was it was uh it was a rude awakening and it was a curveball I was not expecting at all. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

The mentality of it, like your mental health with it, like it I'm gonna uh just assume here that it it took a toll. And we never knew as a family, like we that was never something that was talked about.

SPEAKER_03:

No, I deliberately didn't want to share um with anyone really, um for a variety of reasons, but unfortunately, I really didn't want to share with you two, especially.

SPEAKER_01:

Um I and I can only imagine why, but like as your sister, it like it makes me feel sad, like knowing after when you were like, I know, but it took us so long, and it's like like I it makes me like want to cry now because I'm like But wait, wait why why can you voice it?

SPEAKER_03:

I think I know why you wouldn't have wanted to share with us, but well you two were like Kennedy said, you two got pregnant so easily and did it for lack of a better word, professionally, true. Um, and you two were people's solution to infertility. True, true, and I, as someone navigating these very uncertain waters of infertility, yeah, needed to find my own solution. And I didn't I also needed to to tone down the noise. I I could not handle outside opinions, advice. There was so much, even just the internet existing, I was spiraling daily. Um and so I I didn't need people who actually know about the process the specifics of the processes.

SPEAKER_05:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Had had we needed to so to get pregnant with my son, we had to do IUI intrauterine insemination, we had to do two rounds. Um, I did have to give myself shots. Um I I uh like a few.

SPEAKER_01:

And like estrogen and progesterone?

SPEAKER_03:

No, no, no. So I I took um letrazole to stimulate follicle growth. Okay. Um, I was going in uh so in the first two weeks of my cycle, I went in for monitoring ultrasounds like three, four times.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow.

SPEAKER_03:

And then they were checking the the growth of the follicles to see how big they were. And then um, if they weren't big enough by a certain day in the cycle, I had to give myself shots of menopure, which is like where people in IBF do it, and like you have to go into your bathroom and be a little like chemist and like mix the thing with the thing and shake it up, and you have to like make your potion that you're then going to stab into your body. Um, and you know, like you both have you both have done injectables plenty of times. Um, and so like, yeah, that might have been nice to like get some advice on like, hey, what's the best way to do this? Or like, hey, do you have any tips, tips, you know, tricks of the trade? Yeah. Um, but you know, that would have revealed right, that would have been a bigger conversation, just like, hey, Amanda, why are you injecting yourself? Um, yeah, and so like having to navigate that on my own. Um, but so I was going in for ultrasounds and then um, you know, did the insemination and then waited the two weeks and then it didn't work the first time. And then actually the second round, I had to come in. So it was our first year in our house, yeah, that that we bought. It was our first year hosting Thanksgiving. We were so amped, so excited. Because I had always said, like, when when my husband and I got our own house, like we were taking Thanksgiving, like that was our holiday. Um, and mom, you graciously seen Thanksgiving. Um and so because like multiple families and everybody has in-laws, we were doing Thanksgiving on Black Friday. Yes, right, and so on actual Thanksgiving, um, my cycle started. And so I had to reach out to my um fertility doctor, and she was like, All right, we'll see you at 645 tomorrow morning.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03:

So I went to the fertility clinic at 6:45 a.m. on Black Friday, the day I was hosting my first ever Thanksgiving. Had had my like ultrasound, and she was like, Okay, like go get your meds. Pharmacy didn't open till 9. So I was there from 6.45 until like 9 15, 9 30. Then I had to come home, cook Thanksgiving dinner, like do Thanksgiving. Yeah, without anyone, yeah, no one knew, no one knew anything. Um, and and you know, coming off of this like emotional realization, this emotional blow, yeah, that the first round didn't work. Yeah, right. And so now, like back on the horse, let's do it again. Um, and so like that was really hard. None of you knew that. Um, and then we it was also really hard because we found out that the second round worked um on I think it was December 19th, or yeah, December 19th, and then they wanted me to come in for my first beta draw, the HCG on December 23rd. And then the second one to see if it doubled was December 25th.

SPEAKER_05:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

So I had to go to a Kaiser that was open on Christmas before we went to my husband's family's gathering. They did the blood, yeah. They did the blood draw wrong. So they called they called me 30 minutes later. How the hell do you do a blood draw wrong? They like put it in the wrong vial, yeah, the wrong tube. Um, so they got the blood, they just put it in the wrong thing. So they called me and they were like, hey, you gotta come back. So then I have to mysteriously leave Christmas with my in-laws. Wow, that's ridiculous. And they were like, Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because we hadn't told them either. No one knew what we were doing. And so, and so dealt with that. And then all Christmas Day, we were waiting for my results to see if the HCG no one knew. Did those results come in while you were here or later? No, they came in um after we got home. But the entire time I was at your house, I was like refreshed, refreshed, refreshed.

SPEAKER_01:

And also, you kind of look, I just remember looking over at you, and you were like kind of dead near the end of the night. And I was just, and you were just don't feel good. And I was like, Oh, okay, I'm so sorry. And then like that's when mom's conspiracies started. Like and and then she just kind of like kept telling me, like, I think she's pregnant. Like, it could be, it could be a thing. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. And then it was the infamous email that she sent to herself later down the line where she's like, I know she's pregnant. Okay, that's a whole other thing.

SPEAKER_03:

But yes, well, well, right. And you know, looking back, I do it would have been really cool. It would have been really cool to tell everyone on Christmas. Yeah, like but that's also really early. I was days into this pregnancy. I knew that's terrifying. Like I had oh, actually, other fun fact when I found out I was pregnant, the day I found out was Kennedy's cookie party. Yes. What did we have to eat? What was the menu had deli sandwiches for everyone? Deli meats. Yeah, and I was like, like, I can't drink, I can't have they're gonna wonder what's wrong if I'm not drinking or eating deli meats. No, you should get a tummy wish, and I was like, Oh yeah, we all have those. I got it. Yeah, but um, yeah, so it was really, really hard to keep that under wraps. And and I I really hate that I felt that I had to, but also I know it was the right choice. No, yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00:

You I do know it was the right choice.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, I knew too. I just I always wondered, like, I I I I can't help but like wonder because like we we talk to so many people, like we we you know, surrogacy and infertility are like are just constantly like in our daily conversations. And like the thing that goes to me is like I just feel so bad that you were so alone. Yeah, and I know that so many people do that for the same fears that you had. But like being your sister, I'm just like but I do know that you told a friend, and I was like, okay, at least she had a friend, at least she had someone in her corner that she can go and talk to and like kind of like walk through it all and like have her breakdowns if she needed. But like it's just sad that people just that it's hard. It's I know it's a hard topic to talk about.

SPEAKER_00:

And a lot of it's you don't want to have to, if it fails, you don't want to have to deal with that again. And like how many times, oh god, they're gonna be calling and asking it. Right. I completely understand why it's kept completely.

SPEAKER_03:

I I didn't I didn't want people tracking my cycle, like counting my two-week wait and like you know, like looking at me every time I came over. Like I didn't, I didn't want it. I wanted and I felt really cheated by the whole process because I wanted that moment to be able to surprise everyone with I'm pregnant. And if everyone knew I was going through infertility, then it's then it's like, oh, we knew you were trying to do that, so yay! Like, so I didn't want like the wind taken out of my sails to get like my big reveal moment or whatever. Um so there was a lot of reasons, and it was it was difficult. Keep it was, I mean, nearly impossible because I I'm a yapper, I talk about everything, and I hate, I dissect everything, and I want to get a bunch of opinions on it. And um, I mean, I usually tell certainly you two uh most things that are happening. I often call one of you in real time if something is like pissing me off or going wrong. Um, and so there were a lot of moments in that process where I did I was just and and that made it harder in a lot of ways because I couldn't talk to anyone. Um, I mean, a friend, a friend texted me and told me she was pregnant, and I was like in the thick of it and um got so upset and had, you know, could obviously speak to my husband, but um was just like spiraling, spiraling, spiraling, and had no no other way to really have an outlet. And so um my husband was like, you should just like go shopping, like go to the mall, like go somewhere like to get your mind off it. And so I did, but I tried. Um, but I that was when I backed my car into my husband's car. Oh that's when that was it.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, what a rough time or thing.

SPEAKER_03:

It was really it's like insult to injury. Like I I'm already down, and now I have to call USAA and tell them that I hit my husband's car with my car and file an insurance claim. So yeah, it was um, it was a lot. It was it it was a really, really rough time, and I I don't wish infertility on anyone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um was there any diagnosis behind your infertility struggles? Or yeah or no?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, um, I was diagnosed with PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome, um, okay, which yeah, a lot of women have that. Um and the first doctor I met was kind of like, oh yeah, it seems consistent with that. So you've got that. And I don't I don't really know that she like did any specific testing or if she was just like listening to me and then was like, I think that's what you have, so we'll move forward there. Um, but you know, I had a lot of testing done, and um yeah, they said we were a good candidate for IUI, and obviously we were, it worked. Um I'm very grateful to have had access to that. Yes. Right. To all the doctors and it was covered by insurance mostly, um which is huge. Um expensive. So yeah, it we were very lucky to be able to do that. Now, had we needed to go to IVF, yes, I had already resigned myself that I was going to have to tell you guys. Um because I there was no way I was going to be able to like do IVF and keep that quiet. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01:

I get that. I get that. Yeah. But um, so you ne so you have you have a beautiful baby boy who's m my first nephew by like three weeks, but still my first nephew. Number one. And then you went on to have a easier time getting pregnant the second time?

SPEAKER_03:

A wonderful surprise out of out of well, yeah. So after um, after my son Bennett was born, I said, I'm not going on birth control because that's right, why that doesn't serve me. Um and and my husband and I said, like, great, if we get pregnant by chance, you know, without having to try for it, without injecting myself with medicine, um, and without going to multiple doctor's appointments and blah, blah, blah. Great, what we'll take it. And so at 11 months uh postpartum, that is what happened.

SPEAKER_01:

11 months?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Jesus, Amanda. I know. Better than three. Better than three. Better, yeah, could have been worse, but um it was it was a lot. It was a lot of babies in a short amount of time, which I mean you two know that game, so you just didn't raise them. Yeah, I didn't have I didn't keep them.

SPEAKER_00:

That's the harder aspect of it of having them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah, they're still in my house, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, they're they're with you full time there. Oh my gosh, how funny.

SPEAKER_00:

And yeah, so the both pregnancies, IUI versus getting naturally pregnant. Were they different in any way? Other than how you conceived. Did you feel the same? Were you sick?

SPEAKER_03:

Were you um my they were both pretty awful. Um, and you guys just waltzing around being pregnant, which is great. Love that for you. Um but so that was also a shock to you when um my um my pregnancy with Hallie was worse than it was with Bennett. Um I mean with Hallie mom, you found out I was pregnant with Hallie because I was rushed to the ER because they thought I was having a stroke at six weeks' pregnancy. Stroke. Yeah. Um, I wasn't, but I was presenting with stroke-like symptoms. And so um that girl just wanted to come in dramatically. That's all that is. Boy, did she? And so um, yeah, Charles had to call 911 and then had to call you and Mike, and we're like, Hey, can you come watch Bennett? Because I have to go to the hospital with Amanda. And then you guys were like, Why is Amanda going to the hospital?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like, okay, just be quiet. We just we just learned to hold our tongues, and then when you were gonna share, you were gonna share. But I think you shared when you got home. You were like so Charles told you guys when you got there. There we go.

SPEAKER_03:

He was like, Amanda's six and a half weeks pregnant, she's going to the ER. I have to go. Like, see, yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, it's um a very different story, but um, yeah, yeah, Hallie's was harder and probably because I had a toddler. Probably because your energy was already drained, it's draining zapping my yeah, my life force from me. But um, yeah, there was certainly no once I was pregnant, I was pregnant. There was no like, oh, this must be because of the IUI or anything. Um, yeah, got to the same place. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

I have it's kind of like a two-parted question. So one, do you have any advice for people that are family members or like a somebody support system in the surrogacy world? So that's part one. And then part. Sorry. I was like, oh, sorry. And then part two, do you have any advice for anybody who is dealing with fertility or infertility?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, if you're um if someone you know and love is a surrogate or um an intended parent or somehow involved in the surrogacy realm, um I think just remembering that information is so powerful. Um because yeah, when you do get met with that elementary school teacher or that friend's mom or the person on the soccer field who just doesn't get it, doesn't understand what's happening, judges it. Um, you know, just providing information is, and that's what you guys are doing. That's what this whole, it's the whole point of this podcast. Um and yeah, just providing information is is it's it's certainly not your duty to do so. It is not your duty to educate anyone, but um that's always a good starting ground of just like learning what you can about it and then being able to share that information with other people. Um also for intended parents specifically, I would say like it really does make a difference to the surrogate's existing children if you like make them feel like you care about them. They're part of it, they're they're part of it, and you see them. It's not just it's not just like a business transaction you have with their mom. It's like their mom is helping you, and you're so grateful for their mom, and like you want to know about them. And also the whole point of surrogacy is your intended parents. So, like hang out with the kids. Like, this is this this is your end goal, right? It's to like get some of your own. So, like hang out with the kids in front of you. Um, because that really does just it just makes it a nicer process for everyone. Um and so easy, costs you nothing to like pay attention to the kids.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um in terms of like advice for someone going through infertility, whoof. Um Yeah, it's a hard one. That's uh just whatever whatever decision you make for yourself is the right one. If it's if it's time to stop, it's time to stop. If it's time, if you want to take a break for a cycle, take a break for a cycle. If you want to tell no one, tell no one. If you want to shout it from the rooftops, shout it from the rooftops. And uh however you choose to handle it is the right way, because it's it's yours, it's your experience alone. Um and as much as possible, stay off the internet because it's a scary place. It is a scary place, it makes you feel very um bad about yourself sometimes. Probably take some of your hope away. Yeah, well, and it just there's so many anecdotal. Well, this worked for me and this happened, and my numbers were this, and yeah, uh and on, you know, nine days past ovulation, I got my faint line, right? And you know, just like all that.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm curious. Did you test for both pregnancies at home?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you did okay. Did you ever you had to with with IUI? Did okay they wouldn't do a beta unless you got a positive pregnancy. Oh, didn't know that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. So you had to like call them.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So do you remember when you got a line?

SPEAKER_03:

It was I have the picture in my phone. It was either it was either nine or 10. Okay. Days after ovulation. Days days after ovulation or days after like the trigger insemination. There you go. Okay. Um, and then like I took it because and they recommended you wait until 14. And I was like, cute. Yeah, right. No one waits till 14. Absolutely. Morning and night. Yes, I in what world? And afternoon. I limited myself to first morning. Okay. Just the one. Good for you. But wanted to see the progression after 24 hours. Okay. Um, yeah. But yes, I it was like it was day nine or 10 that I was like, okay, I can test. Um and yeah, when I was pregnant, it was very clearly aligned. I did it on three tests. Okay. And it was by different brands. Sure, for sure. And it was very clearly aligned. But um, and then with with Hallie, it was it was such a whim. Like we were about to go on a trip, and I was like, maybe I should just take one. Because you weren't feeling good, or you thought it was I was like a little, I was like two or three days late past when I thought maybe my period would come. Because who knows? I'm 11 months post-partum. I don't know what's happening. Okay. Um, it's anybody's guess. But like I was going on a trip, and my husband was like, I don't know, maybe. And I was like, Yeah, whatever, I'll take one. And literally just like set it on the counter and walked away because I had to get Bennett ready for school.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, like Charles knew before I did because he was like brushing his teeth.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's kind of fun.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah. No, I was, I was like, I gotta get Bennett ready, like, whatever, that's there. And then I immediately went out to get more tests because I was like, of course, can't trust it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you can't trust one. You gotta take like six and be like, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, no. So yes, I tested for both at home. And um, and then luckily with Bennett, I got to get like the the follow-up blood test to make myself feel better. Better. Right. Um, but like you just stick in our head. When you just get pregnant on your own, they like really don't care. They're like, okay, so you have like nine weeks, right? Yep. Yeah. And you're like, I'm sorry, does no one does no one care about me? I'm carrying life here. Pretty much. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's it's just a wild process. No matter how you come come find yourself pregnant, it's a it's a wild process, it's a wild process. It's the rodeo. Yeah. But I don't, it's a rodeo. It's a rodeo. I brought that back. That was a nice thought. Um, but I I don't to answer the question on everyone's mind, I do not see a life of surrogacy for myself.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I'm just never gonna ask. How funny that's so glad. You know who I thought might take a gander at it is my daughter-in-law. That's who I thought might take a gander at it.

SPEAKER_03:

I wouldn't have been surprised.

SPEAKER_00:

Correct.

SPEAKER_03:

Because there was talks. I wouldn't have been surprised.

SPEAKER_01:

But probably not. You cut it out. I might cut this out, but I really don't think Brett would have been on board. Let's see. Well, maybe not.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. Um your daughter-in-law is a very altruistic, kind, loving, giving person. Yes. Um, and so I absolutely could see it from that perspective. Totally. Um, I'm not, it's not the life for me. I know. I don't I don't enjoy being pregnant, guys. I know that's that's okay. It's hard to hear, probably. Two out of three. It's all right. Okay, it's it's just it's passed along everything. The blue eyes, you're welcome. I just can't pass it on. But no, I really do. It's wild to me that you guys are just like fine being pregnant, and it was just like a fine experience for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Knock on wood, because like I'm not done with my pregnancy journeys.

SPEAKER_03:

That's true. That's true. But you I mean you've got enough of a sample size, but um, yeah. Just need that one to really suck. That's true. That's true. Or you could have two that really suck and then um you know, just like never do it again. That's that's my plan. There you go.

SPEAKER_01:

I get you.

SPEAKER_03:

I'll leave future pregnancies to you.

SPEAKER_01:

I do think it would have been fun if had you gone into like surrogacy law. And I think it's kind of cool that you were kind of thinking of that. Cause like, let's get real, we all could have like worked together. Like, how fun.

SPEAKER_03:

No, totally. And honestly, like I it's it's something I would be totally interested in doing. Um, it's just like such a weird because to really be in that, you kind of have to be an entrepreneur, like you have to have your own firm. Like you have to be a solo practitioner and like do it yourself. I'm not an entrepreneurial spirit. Like I want to show up for my job and I want them to pay me, and then I want to like go on my PTO and like like I I am not a like start my own business kind of gal.

SPEAKER_02:

Sure.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, so if there was like a surrogacy firm that like wanted to hire me, I would happily join that firm, but I don't think that exists.

SPEAKER_01:

So um I think it exists. They have to have a couple people at their place, it can't just be them. It can't just be them too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, they have their own maybe. People we've talked to, just like one or two, and they to kind of share, depending on what states you're in, because you have to be barred in certain states, right?

SPEAKER_03:

That's a huge thing with certain states. They partner, yeah. That's huge. It's a big deal. Um, there's so so much inner all the states. Yeah, it's and truthfully, it's a very complex area of the law. Um it is. Um, but I was I did write a published law review article that was on surrogacy laws in different states. Um lovely. So that was my contribution. What? For like for what? For like law school for my law journal, for Chapman Law Review. Excellent. Okay, no one remembers anything I do. I was probably pregnant and not really I think I do recall that. I think I do recall that, yeah. 100%, Kennedy. That was uh I have an excuse. Well, you weren't yet pregnant, but just elderly. I was still into my life. You were you're not elderly mom. Christ fine. Oh my gosh. Little girl with a gym thinks otherwise. It's fine. What did she say? So little girl thinks otherwise. Someone called mom an old lady recently and it was numerous times. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Well, but is this the end of our time?

SPEAKER_03:

Do we have any more questions?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think I have any more questions. Um, do you, Mom? Uh no. I'm good. I learned a lot. How'd I do? Great, great. This was so fun.

unknown:

Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

This was so fun. You should just come on permanently. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_03:

I feel like I've shared my stories. No, you're fine.

SPEAKER_00:

It took us four years to get you here, but it's okay. It's our that's our that's already.

SPEAKER_03:

We're never asked.

SPEAKER_00:

We never did. I'm just I'm just happy to be invited. Yeah, it'd be interesting to hear what your brother's take on the whole thing was because he was old. Like you can ask him.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think that question should come from me.

SPEAKER_05:

Everyone was around for all of mine. Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_02:

My husband wasn't, but okay.

SPEAKER_01:

My yeah, my husband was not. That's true.

SPEAKER_02:

It feels like wild to think about.

SPEAKER_01:

It feels like he was.

SPEAKER_03:

That's wild to think about, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

He was around for this last one. Okay. Didn't turn into anything, but like still was around.

SPEAKER_03:

One that never was right.

SPEAKER_01:

But he's he had to give me all my shots.

SPEAKER_03:

Who gave them to you before? You, Ellen. Do you want to think so? I did. I did. I'm so sorry. I I didn't Charles didn't give me any shots. I wouldn't let my.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, but had it had to be in the butt, I maybe just like angle-wise, I might have to.

SPEAKER_00:

Were you tummy or tummy? It was it was tummy. Tummy. Oh, tummy's easy. Yeah. Oh god, I couldn't do it. Oh, tummy's so easy.

SPEAKER_01:

You still have to look at it going in. You don't have to. Uh no. I have a video of me trying to give myself a tummy shot at at the hotel when I did the transfer. And like it, I had to cut it down because it's 20 minutes of me talking myself into like trying to shoot myself. And the kid's like, just give me the goddamn needle. Shove it in you. And then I freak out, so then my tummy moves and he pricks me. Oh, it was so horrible. It was horrible.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Can't take her anywhere.

SPEAKER_03:

No, you can't get yourself shots.

SPEAKER_01:

No, I can't. I can give myself a tequila shot. Does that okay? Completely.

SPEAKER_03:

Amen.

SPEAKER_01:

Happy, happy Friday.

SPEAKER_03:

Happy Friday.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Thank you so much. This was so for joining Amanda and giving us your perspective. We appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um, thanks for having me. Yeah. Cool. Wonderful. I hope you hope you guys have a lovely, lovely uh Friday night, weekend ahead of you.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Thanks. You too. But yeah. Bye. Thanks so much. Okay, bye.

SPEAKER_02:

You just exit.

SPEAKER_03:

Leave, leave, leave. All right, I'm leaving.

SPEAKER_00:

That was fun. Very interesting perspective. Very interesting. And it brought back a lot of memories. Yeah. And I didn't realize she like in grammar school, she was like fielding this with like teachers. And like I probably was in the moment, I'm like, oh, yeah, whatever. And just like passed it off because I knew all these people were very judgmental. Um, and she proved it. No, she proved that. I know, I know, t was the time. It was agreed. And then the next one, which was only a in the spectrum of thing, like a year or a year and a half shifts, shifts, shifts in the uh in the perspective. So there you go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it was that was interesting. Yeah, that was really fun. And it was very interesting to to hear her fertility journey. Yeah, absolutely. We never there's hope out there. We've never sat down and talked about that.

SPEAKER_00:

No, we haven't. Then there's hope out there because you know, she had to go through all of that for the first one, the second one was spontaneous. It's like, huh, what? And that happens. Exactly. So there is hope, people. Just just keep keep I know everybody's faithful, but just keep it. Keep your faith, keep your hope.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly. Well, thanks, Amanda. That was fun. Um, if anybody has any questions or stories they would like to share, please feel free to reach out to us on Instagram at StopPeriod Sit Period Surrogate, or you can email us at stop period sit periodsurrogate at gmail.com. And this has been another episode of Stop Sit Surrogate with Kennedy and Ellen. Hi, everybody. Before we wrap up, we want to give a huge thank you to our sponsors, Northwest Surrogacy Center, New York Surrogacy Center, Paying It Forward Surrogacy. Their continued support helps us share real stories that educate our community and connect families through the incredible journey of surrogacy. Thanks so much for tuning in to Stops It Surrogate, where every story matters and every journey is worth sharing. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_00:

If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to give us a like and subscribe. Also, check out the link to our YouTube channel in the description. And be sure to also check out our children's book, My Mom Has a Superpower, sold on Amazon and Etsy.