Stop. Sit. Surrogate.
A mother and daughter podcast educating others on surrogacy from a surrogates point of view. And the point of view from the intended parents, children born from surrogacy, the agency, legal professionals and IVF doctors for the science behind it all. Together we have brought 8 beautiful children into this world and it’s been an insane rollercoaster ride! Good and bad, the sweet and the sour, all coming to light about the truths behind the best and worst surrogacy journeys. Stop. Sit. Surrogate. Is a podcast that is able to give well rounded information about surrogacy from every point of view. We hope to give as much education as we can provide, to those who want to learn and know more about surrogacy.
Stop. Sit. Surrogate.
Australian Surrogacy, Explained Through One Journey
#surrogacy
#ivf
#surrogate
Kayla’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kayla_rees85?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
A midwife from Adelaide joins us to unpack what Australian surrogacy really looks like when there are no agencies, no compensation, and a culture grounded in trust. Kayla walks us through how “teams” form through communities and friendships, why counseling and non-enforceable contracts still matter, and how parentage transfers after birth. We compare systems with the U.S., from single-embryo policies and no sex selection to the three-month embryo quarantine that surprised her—and the fully unmedicated transfer that worked on the first try.
The heart of this story beats in the details: choosing private care within a universal system to pursue a VBAC after two C-sections; a brief parvovirus scare that prompted careful monitoring; and the day labor went from calm to critical with a half-hour dash to the hospital. Kayla delivered standing by the bed, welcomed the intended parents moments before birth, and chose immediate skin-to-skin for closure and physiology. She offered early breastfeeding, then pumped until it began crowding family life. Postpartum, the dads stayed nearby for weeks, helping “wean” contact thoughtfully so her body and heart could settle while real friendships deepened.
We also get honest about money, ethics, and reform. Kayla once feared compensation would undercut connection. Now she notices who gets paid—clinics, lawyers, counselors—while the surrogate does the heavy lifting. She supports a fair, modest compensation model that respects the work without pricing out families, and she’s watching Australia’s push toward federal harmonization with hope. If you’re curious about how autonomy, informed consent, and genuine relationships can shape a modern surrogacy journey, this conversation offers rare clarity and warmth.
If this story moved you or challenged your assumptions, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review so more listeners can find it. Got a question or a story to share? Reach out—we’d love to hear from you.
Welcome. We are a mother-daughter podcast about all things surrogacy. Together, we have brought eight beautiful babies into this world. And we would like to share through education and knowledge about surrogacy with those who want to educate themselves on the topic. This is Stop, Sit, Surrogate. Have you ever thought about growing your family but aren't sure what your options are? Or maybe you're someone who wants to help others experience the joy of parenthood? That's where Northwest Surrogacy Center comes in. Northwest Surrogacy Center is a full service surrogacy agency that guides intended parents and surrogates through every step of the journey, both with compassion, transparency, and personalized care. Imagine that a legal support to emotional wellness may make what can feel an overwhelming feeling immediately human and supported. Whether you're considering surrogacy to grow your family, or you're ready to become a surrogate yourself, Northwest Surrogacy Center is there to walk beside you every step of the way. Visit Northwest at the surrogacycenter.com at NWSurrogacyCenter.com to learn more and take the first step towards something truly life-changing. Northwest Surrogacy Center. Love makes families. Hi everybody. Welcome back to Stopsit Surrogate 2026. We are so excited to be here. I don't know what Bluey would say. So darn, I should have practiced that before we started. But would you like to introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm um Kayla. I'm from Australia and I live down in South Australia in Adelaide. Um, I guess if you wanted like an Aussie phrase for this, one that's pretty like specific to where I live is we would say that your podcast is heaps good.
unknown:Heaps good.
SPEAKER_06:Heaps good. Heaps good. Okay, it's my new, it's my new vocab for like the year. Heaps good. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited. This is this is fascinating. The fact that the podcast reaches Australia blows my mind in itself. I'm like, wait, what? So you're the you're the one. I see it on the thing, and it's like, you have one percent Australia. And I'm like, oh, now I've met you.
SPEAKER_03:I'm sure I'm not the one. There's surely more than one.
SPEAKER_07:Sure, I'm sure you are.
SPEAKER_06:Okay. Um, we'll just jump right into it. I'm I'm very curious. Um I'm like a billion questions. But um, how did you find out about surrogacy?
SPEAKER_03:So um I guess the first sort of exposure that I had to surrogacy was I'm so I'm a midwife. Um and there is a girl at work that I work with who is a midwife as well, and she has MRKH, so she was born without a uterus. Um and she was quite sort of public in her first surrogacy journey. Her cousin carried a baby for her, but I didn't know her very well. I just kind of knew that, oh, this is this thing that Hannah did. Um, and then I also went to a home birth for a client, not one of my clients, just a um like one of the other midwives who was off call. And I went to this home birth, I had a look in her handheld record, and I saw that her last baby had been a surrogate baby. And I was like, oh my god, okay. So she's like having her own baby in the bathtub in this other room, and I'm looking in her handheld record, I was like, oh my god, this woman was a surrogate. And I thought, there is no way I could do that. Um, I was like, wow, that's amazing. And I didn't really realize that it was a thing in Australia. Um and so that was kind of how I knew that it was a thing, but it still wasn't very common. Like I didn't know anyone that had done it. Um and we were thinking about having another baby ourselves. So I've got two kids, um, a daughter who's nine, and a son who's now six and a half. But for ages there, we were like tossing up, do we have a third? Do we not have a third? I was like team third baby. My husband was like, absolutely not team third baby. So we sort of tossed it up for ages. And I think while I was going through that process of wanting another baby of my own, in my mind, I was like, absolutely, I could not be a surrogate. I think because I wanted my own baby. Right, yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, and so then I all of a sudden became team no third baby because toddlers are hard work.
SPEAKER_06:And I was like, You have yours close together. My my sibling, my my sister has hers close together, and I'm like, oh yeah, I don't, I don't need my my son's 10, I don't have another one yet, and when I do, it'll be fine.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it'll be lovely. You'll like have someone to help you.
SPEAKER_06:Not the two crazy lovely children running around the house at the same time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Absolutely. It's hard work, and toddlers are hard work. And I was like, actually, do you know what? I'm fine without a third baby, but I didn't feel like ready to be done with that season of life where like I love being pregnant. Um, and it I just didn't feel done from that perspective, but I felt done from a parenting perspective. So that's kind of how I knew it was a thing. Um, and then I what I do when I'm interested in something is I just do this like deep dive.
SPEAKER_08:Good.
SPEAKER_03:That's good. So I like I read this book that was written by there's a surrogate in Australia who's a lawyer, and she's probably like the most um uh public figure for surrogacy in Australia, and she has written a book. Um, and so I ordered the book online and I joined all the Facebook groups because there's like quite a few Australian Facebook groups, um and I started listening to podcasts. Um, so I listened to so Sarah Jefford, the lawyer surrogate that I was talking about, she had a podcast. So I like burned through that. Um and then I was like, well, I'm done with that one. What do I do now? So I just like typed surrogate into the podcast app on my phone and then yours came up. So then I was listening to yours for ages.
SPEAKER_08:Oh god!
SPEAKER_07:This is so fun. I'm like so I'm like starstruck right now. I'm like, wait, what? Australia? You know us? Well, thank God for the podcast app.
SPEAKER_04:Seriously, how funny.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but obviously that was really different though, because surrogacy in Australia is really different to the US.
SPEAKER_06:Yes. So can we touch on that real quick? So, from what I know, I'm gonna say for what I know, and then you correct me and add in. So, from what I know is that surrogacy in Australia is considered altruistic for sure. You guys aren't compensated, is my understanding. You guys like legally can't be. It's kind of similar to Canada, in my understanding of it, where like the surrogates can't be compensated at all. Um and aren't there like a lot of like legalities, like you have to be really careful, or is it just like it you like you can do it, it's I get so confused.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so just to be clear, I feel like all surrogacy is attruistic.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Like it's nobody is doing this for money, I don't think, unless they are you know in a developing country where maybe that's a thing.
SPEAKER_06:But it's not it's not all 100% money. Like I could never do this without like a heart.
SPEAKER_03:Like oh, exactly. Like you have to want to help someone, I think. Yeah. So um, yeah, we are altruistic, so non-compensated, I guess.
SPEAKER_06:Um yeah, commercial, I guess, or whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, not commercial, that's right. So basically the rule is that I am not to be left out of pocket, but I'm not to benefit financially either.
SPEAKER_06:Um, so like doctors, doctors' appointments and things are paid for by intended parents.
SPEAKER_03:The IPs, yeah, absolutely. Um so doctor's appointments are paid for. Uh, so that includes like the fertility stuff and like obstetric care or midwifery care or whatever model of care you go with. Um, things like maternity clothes, okay, um, vitamins, um, allied health stuff. So if you need like physio or um acupuncture or anything like that would be paid for. Um, but it's kind of like a a discussion with your, we call them teams, like with your team about what is reasonable and what isn't. So in the contract, it basically just says the reasonable pregnancy expenses. Um yeah, I feel like most of the teams in Australia usually the IPs will give the surrogate a card, like a credit card or not a credit card, a debit card that they'll have money on. And then the surrogate uses that to pay for things like I don't know, like vitamins or new undies or like pads or you know, whatever you need.
SPEAKER_06:Um you don't have to like submit like proof, like you don't have to like submit like a receipt, like you go out, you buy it yourself, and then you're like reimburse me, like type thing.
SPEAKER_03:Some surrogates choose to do it that way. Okay. Um honestly that would have done my head in. I am just not that organized. Like it seems like a lot of work. That's a lot of work. Yeah. So um I think you can get audited um in the process, but I don't know of anyone that that's happened to.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:I think um generally it's just kind of like by the time you have offered to a set of intended parents, you usually have gone through a whole heap of like discussions about what the journey will look like and what is um a reasonable expense. And so at that point, like I most of the time I would flick invoices and things like that to my IPs, or I would ask them if I they wanted a receipt. They didn't want receipts for anything, like there's a pretty high level of trust there. You know, they're trusting me to carry their baby, I'm trusting them to look after me while I'm pregnant in terms of those kind of things. Um and like trusting that that relationship will continue postnatally and after the baby's born as well. So I think I think if you get to the point in your team where people are asking for receipts on things, yeah, um, it's probably not a great sign.
SPEAKER_06:Right. Yeah, it's kind of like, oh, like like a little maybe micromanage or like non-trustworthy situation.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think it's just a sign that something else has probably started to go astray with like communication or the relationship in general.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Okay. Now how now I'm just gonna assume here. So okay, so a team is like an agency here, yeah. You guys just call them teams.
SPEAKER_03:Well okay. Um because we don't have agencies at all. Right. How does that work? So I guess all of our journeys are independent journeys, I guess.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So so it's like self-matched teams. Um, so you you meet people in a variety of ways. About 80% of surrogacy arrangements in Australia are with intended parents and women that they know already. So like friends or family or colleagues or friends of friends. So they meet them through their personal network. And about 20% of us meet through the surrogacy community. So women that have decided they want to do surrogacy and they are looking for intended parents. And so there are, but you can't advertise for surrogates in Australia. That's illegal. Um so you just have to like join these groups and tell your story. Um, or go to so in South Australia, we have like a face-to-face community catch-up, maybe once a month or once every two months, so you can go there just to meet other people in the community.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um and you kind of when you find someone that you click with, usually you'll go on this like sort of dating process. So um where you're catching up and having discussions about what you want the journey to look like. Um like really in-depth discussions on things like termination, um, you know, like how does everyone in the team feel about that? Um, under what circumstances, um, what kind of like so in Australia the surrogate has full bodily autonomy, so the IPs don't get a say in anything. Um, not in like the type of care that you choose, not where you birth. So we have surrogates here that have home births, water births, all sorts of things.
SPEAKER_06:Um people in America would love to have home births. I know so many surrogates that want to have home births. I could never I need the drugs, but that's amazing that you guys can do that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I think um I think it's probably slightly more common in the surrogacy community because these women are women that like enjoy the process of birth, right?
SPEAKER_06:Right, right. So enjoyed the whole journey of it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so they've usually had uncomplicated births the first time around, or if they haven't, you know, they might choose to birth in a hospital. I would I wouldn't say it's common still, but I know quite a few surrogates that have had home births. Um so you have to match with people that are comfortable with all of those things. Right. Exactly. Um because otherwise it's gonna be a really hard journey. Yeah. So I would say for most people here who are going through this process, they go through that dating process of like really getting to know each other and discussing all these things for like six months. Um Wow. Okay, you guys that's great. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That's that's great.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it it is, absolutely. And I feel like for the most part, surrogates in Australia, they want to have this close, ongoing relationship. Not to the point of like, you know, seeing each other every week or anything necessarily, but um more connection, like a deeper level.
SPEAKER_06:I mean, it makes sense. There's I mean, and I I don't know, even I don't even know how like to correctly phrase this, but I'm sure you're gonna understand it when I say it. Like when there is compensation involved, obviously, more times than not, surrogates definitely want a relationship, but what I'm getting at is like there is no compensation involved. You're strictly like, it is my entire heart, soul, mind, everything in this, like I the thing I want out of it now is some type of relationship, which is so reasonable. Like it's yeah, Dergosy's very intimate, and to do it and to do it all how you guys have to do there, that makes a lot of sense. That is I'm so blown away. And I love the fact that you call your guys teams. That's actually we should call ourselves teams. We are a team. It's so cute and true. Wow.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it is cute, and we we talk about the team as like, you know, it's our IPs, it's me, it's my husband. Right. Um, it's like my kids sometimes when we're all together, like we're all part of this team that brought this baby into the world. Um and it it is it's really lovely.
SPEAKER_06:I love that. Okay, so then oh, this is so wild. So they're independent journeys. That gives me anxiety just thinking about it. But like they're independent journeys, like you guys are doing it all yourselves. I have like a bajillion questions that I'm like trying to like form into like actual words right now. So when you guys decide that, like, hey, like we know each other enough, we want to like move forward. What is your next step? Like, are you guys contacting lawyers? Are you contacting the clinic first? What goes first?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so usually the first thing that happens in Australia, there's this really weird culture um that it's rude to ask someone to be your surrogate. So you don't ask ever. So it's the I know.
SPEAKER_07:So usually what people do the cutest ways to ask, it's like prom. Like honestly, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So you have to wait for the the woman to offer. So it's like this big deal where usually one so the surrogate will offer, and usually in like quite uh thought-out way. Um, so with my with the guys that I was a surrogate for, um, we were away over Christmas and they came like not far away, like an hour south of where we are now on like a beach, like beachfront villa kind of thing with my brother and his family. And they came down and we all went strawberry picking together with my kids. It was super cute. And then they came back for a coffee and we had like they had brought like little Christmas presents for the kids, and I had a Christmas present for them that was like, um, do you guys have scratchies there, like lotto scratchies?
SPEAKER_06:Yes, I want to call them scratchies now. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:What do you guys call them?
SPEAKER_06:Like scratchers, but yours is cuter.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. And I had bought one off of Etsy where you could personalize what was under the scratchy thing. Yeah. Um, so it was mixed in with like a whole bunch of normal ones, and then they had one that when they scratched it off, it said, Let's make a baby. Um the goosebumps are cute. And so they were like scratching them off with my kids because I was like, Oh, you've got to do them now with my kids because they love these things, which they do, but I also had a vested interest in like watching them do it.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, and then they were like Jamie, one of the boys, was like scratching it off. And then when he realized what it said, he was like looking at me and then looking at Scott, and then he was like getting teary. And it was just it was really cute. Um that's the first step, anyway.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, that's wild, but that's so fun and cute.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was really cute.
SPEAKER_06:So it's like you said it's rude to ask. Is that what you said? Okay.
SPEAKER_03:It's just um like yeah, it's a big thing to ask someone. Like you don't want to put pressure on someone if they're not ready. Um if they feel like the relationship isn't at that point where they're ready to offer yet. So, like, yeah, you can, I guess. And I I think people who have surrogates that they met, you know, like your sister, maybe you might ask. That's a bit different. Um Then the process is kind of different for everyone. So um I was a little bit worried that I wouldn't be what do you guys call it? Cleared? Like cleared to be a surrogate. Um I had before I even started any of this and done my deep dive, I had gone to see um one of the obstetricians that I work with, and we like went through my pregnancy histories and like my current health history, and I just got an idea from her about whether I would be suitable. Um, some people haven't done that though. So probably the first step is to yeah, you can do these concurrently, but make an appointment with like the fertility specialists, um, start the process of getting cleared. You can do that at the same time as the counseling. So there's mandatory counseling beforehand.
SPEAKER_06:Like the psych, like your psych, like psychological, like there are psych clearances. You guys still have to do that there. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's not um, it's not super thorough though. And it it's um it's no like psychological assessment per se. It's more like you do one session with like me and my husband, the IPs do a session together, and then we do a session all together with a psychologist.
SPEAKER_06:That's that's how we do it here. Oh, is it? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like I would have like a session. Sometimes my husband is is asked to be a part of it, sometimes he's not. It's just I think it just depends on the the uh the psychologists themselves, and then it's becoming a lot more common now to now do the combo with the IPs. That was I only done that once. That was that was never a thing for me, like ever. So it's it but I think it's great. I think that's a wonderful way to to hash out some stuff before it all starts.
SPEAKER_03:So okay, okay, so that's similar. Yeah, and so then she will well, she, like the psychologist, will write a report, and you need to have that report um finished to give to the lawyers who then do the contract. But the contract is like honestly, when I hear about your contracts, where it's like quite specific about you know things you can and can't do. So these contracts are not legally enforceable at all. So you can put whatever you like in there, it's not legally enforceable. The only thing that is enforceable is the compensation bit, not compensation, what do you call it?
SPEAKER_06:The lack of compensation.
SPEAKER_03:Well, the the bit in there where we kind of detail what reasonable expenses are. So it will say and even that's like very brief. It will just say things like, you know, um replacement of wage for eight weeks postpartum or something like that.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, so you so so you do get um like if you go if you have to go on bed rest, are are they are they c compensating you for for your lost wages?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, um, because we're not allowed to be out of pocket. So if the pregnancy and I love that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um so yeah, it'll go over that, but nothing else. So it won't say, you know, anything about you know, like how many transfers I might do, or um what else might you guys have in there?
SPEAKER_06:Like we have like the amount of embryos that would be in there, um termination type um clauses, like what what would be terminated, what would not be. Um, you know, like if you need to go see a specialist and like the IPs want you to have like a second opinion. Um yeah, just kind of, but you said that you guys have not that surrogates here don't. Surrogates can say yes and no, it's our body, but you know, we we all have those deep conversations of like, yeah, we're cool with like not cool, but like, yes, we're okay with doing this, or we're okay with doing that, or if you know something comes up and the child might not be viable for long after, you know, delivery, then yes, termination, like you know, but um interesting. Yours is not enforceable, then what in the world is the point of your contracts?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, the point of the contract is that you need the contract to then get so we have post-birth parentage orders, right? Where they and you you cannot get that unless you have the contract before transfer. But that's what it's used for.
SPEAKER_06:It's not used for like for any part of the journey. Weird. Because I'm kind of jumping ahead here, but because um so I had I had an Aussie babe, she's now six, she's adorable, and she um I had I was I was considered even though I gave birth to her in America, I was considered like mom. And I was like, oh, this is weird. And I had I had her for two dads, and um I had to fill out different paperwork than I had had had to fill out with my first one because of your guys' post-birth laws. And I had her in America, but they needed to get her citizenship for Australia. Like it is, it is uh and I just had to give permission last year for her to get like a passport. And I was like, wait, what? I am not her mom. Like, I don't know her. It's so weird, it's so it's so weird. It's just so, it's so weird how much your how much Australia is very much like, Kayla, you're the mom. You got you got right, girl.
SPEAKER_03:And it's like no, no, I don't. You know, even weirder, my husband is on the birth certificate as the father currently. No way! Yeah, because the assumption is that if you're married, you are the other parents. Um which is just hilarious because it will get fixed eventually.
SPEAKER_06:Right. How long does it normally take to get that like next?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so we're in the process at the moment and the baby. Uh nine weeks ago. Talking about never guessed. You look great. Oh, thanks. Um yeah, they say it takes three to six months for most people, but I they they have up to a year to get the process done.
SPEAKER_06:Um, Kayla, I have a bajillion questions for you right now. You technically, oh my god, what? So do you tech uh I don't even ask it. Do you like technically have you don't though, but like you technically have rights over the baby? Um legally Yeah, yeah. Not that you're gonna take advantage of that and do things with it. It's just that's what that's what Australia sees you as, is like the person who can call the shots.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I so the baby had like a HEP B vaccination in hospital and I had to sign the paperwork for that.
SPEAKER_06:Wondering, can yeah, so babies can need vaccines, like if you guys do vaccines and stuff, but like, yeah, do they have to contact you every time they go to the doctor?
SPEAKER_03:Well, so luckily people are pretty blasé about that kind of stuff, and there's no like sign once you're going to like the normal doc, like the we call them a GP here, general practitioner. Okay, um, they do all of your your shots and things like that, and they're not gonna ask for a written signature for that. So and the boys were able to register Dexter for his own Medicare card, which is like our public health stuff, because you guys don't have like universal healthcare over there, do you?
SPEAKER_06:I don't know what we got over here anymore, but all I know is that I want Australian healthcare to come over here, but that'll never happen. Your guys' healthcare is way better than ours.
SPEAKER_03:It's bad. Um, so the GP hasn't asked for anything like that. So he's got his own Medicare card, his dads are taking him to the doctor for his checkups, and that hasn't been a problem.
SPEAKER_08:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, I think for the most part, it's like not a big deal. No, nobody's asking for a birth certificate when you bring a baby into the hospital. Yeah. Yeah, so it's been fine. Okay. But yeah, I guess technically, if anything needed that, then it would have to be me at the moment.
SPEAKER_06:Right. Like if he needed a passport, that's I mean that's on me, and I don't I gave away all my rights, and that was still on me. And I'm like, what are you talking about? She's five. Like, I haven't seen her since the day she was born.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Do you know with with your um family that you had the little girl for, do you know if they managed to get a birth certificate with their names on it?
SPEAKER_06:My understanding is yes. Yeah, okay. My my under I don't I don't, you know, I I wanna guess, yes. I do know that it was once I signed over my rights, because I signed them away in the hospital or whatever you want to call that. Um they were I just I think one of them had I don't remember. I think one of them had to like go through like an adoption type process, because obviously like one is biologically related and the other is not. There was like an extra step there that was needed, I believe. I don't know about the birth certificate. Now I'm very interested. And now I kind of want to ask them.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Look at them a text.
SPEAKER_06:Are they having are are you is your couple having like a situation like with that, like where they can't get both their names?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, no, no, no. So if you have um if you go through the sargacy process in Australia with an Australian sargate, then it's not a problem. It's very easy to like, well, like it's not easy, it's still a process, but it's not a problem. Like they'll both be on the target as parents by the way these processes.
SPEAKER_06:I'm pretty sure they got on there because they had a lot of people helping them with their stuff. So I'm gonna go with yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, because there are some states in Australia where commercial surrogacy is still illegal. So I know states.
SPEAKER_06:I'm like so bad with geography. Like that's so you're fascinating. I could talk to you for like literally all day, every day. Um this is so fascinating. We won't jump, we won't jump into geography. Sorry about that. Yeah, um, but that's okay. Really quick though, because you did mention states, and I did hear that a couple weeks ago when I was talking to someone. And um is surrogacy in certain places in Australia a little bit more friendly than others?
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Um so they're all very similar. Um, they all just have like a slightly different vibe to the laws, and they're currently trying to make them federal laws.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but for example, Western Australia, it has only just like literally in the last week become legal for same-sex male couples or single fathers to do even altruistic saracy in Australia. So it was illegal over there. Um, which is just wild to me. Like it's 2025.
SPEAKER_06:It is all wild. Like, let people have their families. Why do you care? Right? Why do you care? You're not in their house with them, leave them alone. 100%. We'll be right back. But first, I want to take a quick moment to talk about something close to my heart, helping families grow through surrogacy. If you've ever thought about becoming a surrogate or if you're an intended parent ready to start your journey, Paying It Forward Surrogacy is here to guide you every step of the way. At Paying It Forward Surrogacy, you're not just a number. You're supported, celebrated, and connected with real people who've walked this path before. Whether you're just starting to explore or ready to take the next step, they'll make sure you feel informed, empowered, and cared for from day one. Visit Paying Itforward Surrogacy.com to learn more. That's Payingit Forward Surrogacy.com. Because every journey to parenthood deserves heart, honesty, and the right support. Now let's get back to the episode. Okay, okay. So back back to back to your story. Okay, so you guys, you have to like get the contracts done in order for the birth for like birth certificate and everything like that to like the post-birth order to go through and everything. So how does after contracts work? Like what are your guys's do you immediately go to like IVF clinic?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so we did those things concurrently. So we did counseling legals and medical clearance all concurrently, um, because the boys hadn't made their embryos yet. Um and in Australia, they make people like quarantine their embryos for three months before they will transfer them into a surrogate.
SPEAKER_06:So they make them be frozen for three months.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. And so even though I don't think there is any evidence that you can catch an STI from an embryo, that's the idea behind it.
SPEAKER_04:So that's their purpose for it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So just before they make the embryos, the two people that make the embryos, like the the two people giving up the gametes, they have a full STI screen. And then three months after the embryos were created, they also then have another full STI screen because there are some STIs that if you're exposed to them take that long to show up. So it's intense. And I was so pissed because I did not want to wait three months. Yeah, that's a long time to at the time I was so impatient.
SPEAKER_06:I was like, Girl, as a surrogate is. We're like, let excuse me. I said yesterday I want to be a surrogate. Why am I not knocked up 24 hours later? Like, I'm I'm ready to go. What's going on?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So it was super frustrating. And it meant that we, because of the way my cycle was, it meant that it ended up being like four months from when the embryos were created. And I was just like annoyed. Yeah, because I'm gonna be 40 in like six weeks.
SPEAKER_06:And I think so good. You just keep dropping all these little bombs on me, and I'm like, wait, so I'm back.
SPEAKER_03:Oh no, no, no. I uh like every single day of that almost 40, trust me, it's like right here.
SPEAKER_06:You feel it, you feel it, but you don't look it.
SPEAKER_03:But I was like obsessed with not wanting to be pregnant for my 40th, and I did not want to be in like the early postpartum period either. Sure. And so I was like, I need to get going. Like that. Um, so anyway, it ended up being fine, but yeah, that's the the next thing that happens.
SPEAKER_06:Um three months, that is a very long time. It is a very long time, it's a very interesting, it's a very interesting thought with your doctors over there.
SPEAKER_03:I appreciate the thoroughness, but oh my yeah, and I also just feel like I should have been able to be like happy to waive that. You know, it should have been up to me, I think.
SPEAKER_06:But anyway, I think so, yeah, for sure. Like at that point, like it's going into your body. You have yeah, you have the rights to say yes and no to things.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, and like I think it would be up, well, it should be up to me how risky I think that is. And like if you knew my IP, zero risk. Right, exactly. Not happening.
SPEAKER_06:Because we do fresh there are it's rare, but we do fresh over here too. So like there's no freezing for three months.
SPEAKER_04:There's it's like whack it in there.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, it's like, oh, she was in the other room, time to go. Like it's it's like over here. It's very interesting. Um, okay, so when you get to transfer that, so like then clearly they're they're clear to go, that you're good to go. So when you get to transfer, are you guys transferring one? What's your guys' policy?
SPEAKER_03:So I don't think there is a single fertility specialist in Australia that will transfer more than one. It is one and one only. Um just because twins are a higher risk pregnancy and um you know the surrogates aren't being paid to do this, so anything that creates more risk is not seen as acceptable.
SPEAKER_02:Totally fair.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so that's not a thing. It's always one. Um it's usually just the highest grade embryo is the one that they're whacking there because we don't have sex selection, so we don't know any of the uh Oh, you don't know if they're boys and girls.
SPEAKER_04:You guys are easy. Yeah. And you just like find out like normal, like people.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um so it means that the IPs can choose whether they find out or not. Um so my IPs didn't want to know. Uh, so they found out on the day of birth.
SPEAKER_04:What about you? Did you want to know? Did you know?
SPEAKER_03:Um, I didn't know either, but I didn't find out with my kids. So I was fine either way.
SPEAKER_06:With your kids, I want to be you.
SPEAKER_03:I want that surprise.
SPEAKER_06:Because there's not many surprises in life. I would not hold out. I'd be like, you have you have the results. I need them.
SPEAKER_03:Like honestly, I I wanted to find out, but my husband really didn't. And so I let him win that one.
SPEAKER_06:Oh my gosh, that's that's very fun. That's very fun. Yeah. Okay, so it took the first time, I'm assuming.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I um I did a completely unmedicated cycle. Uh oh, pause. What do you mean? You what?
SPEAKER_06:What is up with these bombs? Okay, so you you didn't do a medicated cycle? What did you do?
SPEAKER_03:No, I um so they I did get a million blood drawers. So from day, I think, seven of my cycle, I had a I had a blood test every two days to pinpoint ovulation, and then we did a transfer five days after that.
SPEAKER_06:You you didn't do patches, you didn't, you didn't have suppository, like you had nothing, like you were given nothing, you were just like chilling. We're gonna go with Kayla's body. Yeah. And it worked. Yeah, it worked first time. Um I'm shook. Because over here, when I've heard unmedicated, we've talked to people that are unmet unmedicated, but they have like little, it's mainly like I don't have the shots, I have like a little bit here or there, but we're going off my cycle and like completely nothing.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I did have a a scan, like a lining scan at one point. I can't remember what point like the thickening. Yeah, um, but otherwise, nothing. And I just um the one thing that I took was aspirin on the day of transfer for until 36 weeks. So I was taking aspirin, but yeah.
SPEAKER_06:That doesn't count. That doesn't count. Yeah, that is so wild. Okay, yeah, it was really cool. And it took, that is so freaking cool. Um, that's so freaking cool. Okay, so you're pregnant, and then so like at here we graduate from like OB office around like 10-ish weeks, like, and then we get to like go to an OB of our choice. Is that the same for you guys as well?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I think we had like a like a heartbeat scan at about seven weeks. Um and then you could choose at that point whatever maternity care you wanted. Um and I ended up staying with the fertility specialist for one more. Scan like the nuclear, and we did the NIPT as well. So we stayed for that, but I had already had a meeting with our obstetrician anyway. Um, so this was the first time that I had gone with obstetric care. Uh previously with my kids, I'd just gone through the midwifery group practice at my local hospital where I work as well. Um but I wanted to go private this time because I've had two cesarean sections with my kids and I wanted to try for a vaginal birth again this time, um which is like uh not it's hard to find a supportive um uh like maternity professional, basically.
SPEAKER_06:And I'll have V back, right? So how old would your son have been when you when you you said he's six, so was he six? He was like five or six when you gave birth then. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well that's a good thing. That's a good couple years between births that you should be fine with. Well, I mean, we'll find out, but that you should be fine with your back.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, it was fine. But just for like most people in Australia, after you've had two C-sections, they will say don't have any more. Um, like don't have any more attempts for a vaginal birth, like just have an elective cesarean. Um, so I just wanted I wanted to have someone who we could have all those conversations with anti-natalie, who would respect that choice when I came in in Labour. Um, so I went, yeah, I went private this time.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, you're gonna have to explain this to me. Private.
SPEAKER_03:So like what is how Oh, so that's just a um like maternity care that you pay for.
SPEAKER_06:So all you don't have to pay for like midwifery things? So when can I move to Australia? What in the world?
SPEAKER_03:So uh if you're pregnant in Australia, you have two options. You can go with public care, and you can either see obstetricians in the clinic, midwives in the clinic, or you can be allocated your own midwife where you see her for your pregnancy, and then her and her team are on call for your birth and they see you postnatally. So yeah, so it's completely free. Um, not a cent out of pocket.
SPEAKER_06:What? It's like a down payment to have a baby, like for a house. Like it is it's ridiculous over here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, when I see how much it costs to have a baby over there, I'm like, so how do you guys have any babies?
SPEAKER_06:Because majority of the babies I've had have been for other people. I think that explains it.
SPEAKER_03:100%. Um, you can see a private midwife just the same as you can see a private obstetrician, but it will just cost you out of pocket. But even that will only cost you maybe like five grand. Like that's kind of the most that it will cost you here.
SPEAKER_06:You made me really depressed. Okay. Sorry. No, no, it's I'm happy for everyone over there. Like, that is we need just an ounce of that in America, but we won't get into that. Jeez. Um, okay. So you went private, and obviously, the IPs are gonna pay for it, right? And like you guys have had this conversation and like five grand out of pocket. Okay, I'll pay for that. Like, that's fine. Um for sure. Uh so then how does your pregnancy go? Is it okay?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so um pregnancy was fine. I it was probably more complicated than any of my pregnancies. I got parvovirus at 15 weeks. Um about what? Uh parvovirus, which is you some people call it like slap cheek. Um, you get it when you're a kid usually, and you get like these really flushed red cheeks. It's just like a mild cold. Um and my son had it, and I was like, oh God, okay, here we go. Like, I know that's not great if you get it when you're pregnant, but I was thinking I would probably be immune because lots of people are by the time they get to adulthood. Um, turns out I was not, but I was pretty much asymptomatic. Um, but the blood showed that I did get it, and that can cause fetal anemia and stillbirth if you get it in the second trimester. And I got it when I was 15 weeks, which was the worst possible timing.
SPEAKER_04:Um scary.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I was so frustrated because my pregnancies were so boring. Like there was never anything interesting that happened there. Like my daughter was breached, which was frustrating, but like boring. Yeah, but it was um yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_06:That's frustrating.
SPEAKER_03:It was really annoying. She was very stubborn. Um, but like this pregnancy where I had all of these other people invested in this little baby, and then I got this virus, and I was like, for fuck's sake, oh sorry. No, you're fine. Very frustrated. I love you. Oh my god, I love it. I love it. Um so I had to have an ultrasound every two weeks from 20 weeks to 28 weeks to check whether the baby was becoming anemic, basically. Luckily, he was absolutely fine.
SPEAKER_06:So yeah, it was all how long does this little virus like last in you?
SPEAKER_03:Uh honestly, I I didn't really have a lot of symptoms, so I'm not quite sure how long people could take it for. But it's pretty, it's pretty quick, I think. Like my son was symptomatic and it was gone in a couple of days. Oh. Um, so yeah, just one of those things. Um but yeah, baby was fine. Um, there was absolutely nothing wrong on any of the ultrasounds. So yeah. The pregnancy was really boring other than that. So, like no gestational diabetes, no hypertension, no no anything. He was tracking along at like the between the 40th and the 50th percentile the whole time. So that was great. As long as you stay consistent.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, that's fine.
SPEAKER_03:So I think we had our last ultrasound at 34 weeks. Um, and I didn't particularly want to have any after that because just the accuracy of their trimester ultrasounds is pretty uh well, less accurate anyway. Um, and so I didn't want to be in this position of there being like slightly too much fluid or the baby's slightly too big, you know. Like I didn't want any of this sort of pressure for induction or early planned birth because of an ultrasound that I didn't have a lot of faith in. Like anyway. Yeah. So she the obstetrician did talk about wanting to have had the baby by 40 weeks because it was IBF with like not my egg. Right. Um but in the end, all of us were comfortable going until about a week overdue. Um so I went in at 40 weeks and I had a stretch and sweep.
SPEAKER_06:Okay. Membrane sweep, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Um, and I feel like my body had been trying to go into labor for about two weeks by that point because I would get all these tightenings in the afternoon and then they would die off, and then I would get all these tightenings the next day and they would die off. But the last two weeks of my pregnancy were school holidays, and I feel like my body was like keen for labor, but then that was really stressful.
SPEAKER_06:I was like, maybe not all the time.
SPEAKER_03:Um, because the first day they went back to school is when I went into labor.
SPEAKER_05:Your body was like, finally, okay, we we've held on long enough. They're in school, we can do this. Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
SPEAKER_06:Isn't it crazy what our body's just like no? They're just like, okay, we can do it now. Yeah, absolutely. So you you went into labor naturally?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, from the stretch and sweep. So um the membrane sweep. I had that the night before, and then I had like a few tightenings that afternoon, um, but nothing to write home about. Um, had a bit of a restless night's sleep, and then at 5 a.m. I was up for like the fourth time to go to the loo.
SPEAKER_06:Um I do that and I'm not even pregnant, so I was like, I'm having some tightenings.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's exciting. Like this is the usual time of day for that for me. Um and then I just went back to bed, but I couldn't get back to sleep. Um and then my husband's alarm went off at 7 a.m. and I sort of pounced on him. Um, and I was like, Did you bring your laptop home? Like, could you work from home today? Um, but I was still not convinced that I was in labor. Um I was just like, it might happen today. Like this is more exciting than it's been so far. Um and then I just got up and got the kids ready for school. Like it was still fine. They kind of fizzled out a bit, um, got them ready to go. My husband took them to school, and then they kind of like came back a bit more strongly. I was like, okay, like we might be on here. Um, but I like cleaned up the lounge room and I, you know, I was just pottering around the house basically. Um and I was expecting, so I did labor with my son. I got to fully dilated, um, and then had a had that second caesarean in the pushing stage, which was really frustrating. Um, but he was a big baby. Um so I was expecting this like marathon though, because I had been in early labor with him for like 36 hours before we got to the point where we went to the hospital. So I was just like settling in for the day. With Ciro babe? No, with my son. With your son, okay. So I I guess I just I I was still feeling fine. Like it wasn't as though labor was hard work anyway.
SPEAKER_05:Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So at about 11 o'clock, I was like, oh no, I think I think like it's gonna be today. Um and I messaged a friend at work and I was like, can you make sure there's like a nice labour room for me? Um and she wasn't at work, and then she was like, Oh, do you want me to call for you? I was like, No, it might fizzle still. Um and then like 10 minutes later, I was like, Oh, actually, I don't think this is fizzling, like this is getting to the point where I'm having to like work through these. Right. But I live half an hour from the hospital, and I was just really like in my head about what if I go in and I'm not like in established labor yet, and then they're gonna want me to have monitoring before I can go home, and it's just gonna be like a horrible way to spend a day, basically.
SPEAKER_06:I get that, yeah. The ERs are never to just go just to be sent home. It's like I don't want to go unless I'm a million percent positive I'm staying. Exactly. For sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so I called a friend of mine who lives nearby, and um, she uh has been a midwife with me at my work for a long time, and I was like, can you just do a quick like home assessment to make sure I'm in labor before I go in?
SPEAKER_04:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03:She came over and um checked me, and that was like 11:30. Okay, and I was fully dilated, and I was like, oh my god. Oh my god. I was like, shit.
SPEAKER_06:Oh no. Okay, so from like five to like 11:30, so that was like six and a half hours. So that went quick.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, especially because honestly, Kennedy, I was like singing in the shower at 9.45. Like I was, it was not like labor. Like I I was having tightenings, but it was fun.
SPEAKER_06:It was your third baby. Your body's just like, eh, it's fine, we're gonna do it all for you, don't worry about it. Like, baby will be here, you just won't even know what happened. Oh my gosh, how you were relaxed that you were like chilling.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, I was chilling. And like the last I had like a tens machine on, which was helping, but like it was fine anyway. Yeah um, like my husband was in the kitchen cooking fried rice, thinking he would want food to take to the hospital that night. So, like I love this prep.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. He's like, I'm I'm I'm here, I'm ready. Yeah, spoiler alert, he did not finish his fried rice.
SPEAKER_05:Oh no, you didn't get to take it with him. Oh, poor guy.
SPEAKER_06:All that effort for nothing.
SPEAKER_03:Poor guy. Um so we get into the car and we are like driving into the hospital, and um my husband had called the IPs to be like, you need to get to the hospital now, because they live like half an hour north of the city, and we live half an hour south. So the hospital we're going to is like right in the middle. Oh, okay. Um so yeah, then we were in the car, and about like five minutes down my road, it's like my body started involuntarily pushing, and I was like, Taylor, don't tell me you had this baby in a car. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't. I hung on. Okay. I was like so determined not to have that baby without its dad's there. Like, I just could not have that baby without being able to look up and see them.
SPEAKER_05:The joy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_06:I love that that's where your mind goes because this whole like when you were like, we're in the car and it's a half hour away. I'm like, oh my god, my biggest fear right now is that she's gonna have a baby in a car. That's like my fear.
SPEAKER_03:I was worried that that's what was gonna happen too.
SPEAKER_06:Oh dear lord.
SPEAKER_03:So I was just like screaming, unhinged, screaming every situation for half an hour. My poor husband driving, and like in the middle, he was so sweet. He was like, You're doing really good, we're almost there. Like he was amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Just the hype guy, just the supporter. I got you, babe. It's okay. We're driving driving as fast as I can.
SPEAKER_03:Um, so we arrived down in the ambulance bay, and he ran in to get the midwives. Um, and I had a contraction trying to get myself out of the car, and then I look up and there's like a paramedic and three security guys, and like a midwife that's run out from the hospital from like a different area, and I was like, oh my god, this is so embarrassing.
SPEAKER_06:No, I mean, I understand. Yeah, it's like there's a lot of people looking at me right now, like, but it's all for good. It's all it's all for good reasons. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So anyway, I end up getting whizzed upstairs, and um I'm sorry, I'm loving your vocabulary.
SPEAKER_02:I'm like obsessed.
SPEAKER_03:Um so once I arrived in the room, I felt like I could like, okay, like at least I got here. The boys weren't here yet. The birth photographer was, so that was eight. Um how far are they?
SPEAKER_06:Are they already in the car?
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah, they're in the car. Um but at this point I had like no, like I had nothing left. I was like hanging on for deer line. Yeah, I I I feel that, yeah. Um, and then they arrived and I felt like at that point I could like properly push as soon as I saw them. And then he was born like 10 minutes later.
SPEAKER_02:Um gosh.
SPEAKER_03:So you just held on until they got there. Bless your little man. Oh geez. Yeah. I like I I think I sort of started getting in the right mindset to push properly once I was like in the birthing room. Um, but when I look back, I'm like, oh, I wasn't like properly focused. Like I wasn't not screaming and like focused on pushing until they got there. Um the poor boys though, because I was I birthed like standing up next to the bed, and the way that room was like situated, they essentially like walked into my naked butt, just like pointed at them.
SPEAKER_04:Uh hey, it's all good. Like, welcome.
SPEAKER_06:Welcome, you ready to see your baby be born?
SPEAKER_03:That's what the day is about. It was so cute though. So I had my husband, I was standing next to the bed, I was like holding my husband's hand over the bed, and then one of the IPs had like a cup of water for me. Oh, oh my gosh, where did I put you? Oh, no worries. Oh, sorry, I just bumped the computer. Oh, that's okay. Um one of the IPs was like holding the gas that I randomly asked for, you know, 10 minutes before the baby was born, which was never gonna do anything.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, so I had like to think it will though.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think, you know, give it a crack at that point. Um and they were just like all like crowded around me. And I like we have these photos where I'm like, oh my gosh, look what a princess I was with like my whole little team of people. I love that. Yeah, yeah. So had him. Um and then for most teams in Australia, the surrogate will do skin to skin for a bit. Um which I think is probably quite different. Very different.
SPEAKER_06:I have never done skin to skin. That's interesting. Is that a conversation you have like way in the beginning?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely. It's one of the things that um definitely people talk about. What's the logic behind that? Um the logic is probably a little bit different for everyone, but I do feel like in Australia there's like the culture is to kind of respect the physiology there and that surrogate's body has birthed this baby um and needs a second to appreciate the fact that they have birthed, have a second with that baby to like meet them before sort of giving them back to their parents.
SPEAKER_06:Um I think for me, so here for that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Um it's closure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think you just need a second to be like, oh hey, little person that I've been carrying around for the last 10 months.
SPEAKER_06:Um yes, I get granted what you're talking about's a little different than what we've talked about on the podcast before, where we ask for alone time because it's just a way of closure. But what you're saying is also just as intimate. And I get slammed for it. So go, Australia. No one's taking a baby away. No one is trying to do anything with this baby, it's just the closure. And like you said, you just did all these things for nine months. You just brought this little life to like life. And it's like, oh my gosh, my body just went through, whether you people want to agree or not, your body just went through trauma. Like you just burst a whole being out, like, come on now. Um 100%. You need to process, and there's different ways for everyone to process. It's not for everybody. Skin to skin probably isn't for everybody in Australia, for sure. I'm not sure. Yeah, right. But for some, it's what's wanted. I'm sorry, I went on a little spiel because I get slammed for what I say. I just I really appreciate Australia for backing me a bit.
SPEAKER_03:Um I feel like over here as well, there's like a lot of talk about that moment where you hand the baby over. And being I was quite fixated on that moment. Um, like I really wanted to be present and mindful in that moment. And so part of that was me deciding on the point where I could do that. So the boys were super respectful of that. They were like, at whatever point you feel like you want to do that. So some surrogates do skin to skin for like an hour.
SPEAKER_06:Um I wait, Kayla. So is baby born and like placed on you immediately?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, at best standing up. So they passed him through my legs to me and I was holding it.
SPEAKER_06:But like baby doesn't go, but like baby doesn't go to parents first. Like babies, like if you do skin to skin, like that's what's first.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah. So I didn't know how long I was gonna want to do skin to skin with him. Um, but he was like hanging out. At some point, one of the IPs came and cut the cord, which was super cute, because it was quite short, so he was like down really low. Um, and then my obstetrician checked and I needed some suturing, so not not many, um, just like a little bit on the posterior vaginal wall, basically. Um, and it was so uncomfortable when she was checking that I was like, oh my god, I cannot be doing skin to skin while she's suturing because he's not gonna get any of my attention. Like this is very uncomfortable. Um yeah, you're not on events, right? No, no. Um, so just like some local and uh I used some gas as well. So I was like, okay, I'm ready to do my like little simba moment. Um, and then the boys did skin to skin while I got sutured, and then I got up and had a shower and then came back in, and then uh he was looking for a feed. So for us, we had talked about me doing some direct breastfeeding. Um so then he had a feed with me. Um and yeah, I loved that.
SPEAKER_06:That's also I've been hearing that's becoming a little more common here too, as well. Like I've heard other surrogates say but say stuff like that. And I'm like, I love that for you guys.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I think as well for me, I had had a postpartum hemorrhage with my son. Um and that was obviously that was different. That's a surgical birth, and it was um the incision had like extended into an artery, basically. Um so I just I like as a midwife as well, I think we have to respect the physiology of birthing the placenta. Um so that is still a part of birth, and part of the thing that makes that placenta come away safely is all of those, like that hormonal cascade that happens at birth. And I just didn't want to interrupt that. But um, like it was really important for me to do skin to skin for that reason as well. I just felt like postpartum hemorrhage would have been more likely if I wasn't doing skin to skin with the baby.
SPEAKER_06:Um how interesting. Okay, so baby born, skin to skin, and then your body's kind of like ready to like release plus like placenta. Right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So if if we're thinking about like a normal pregnancy with a woman and her own baby, yeah, in if we're talking like no third stage medication, I as a midwife, I make a real point of not disturbing like the woman and the baby until the placenta has come away. I feel like, you know, all of those those hormones that are rushing around post-birth um have a job to do. And part of that job is keeping the woman and the baby together. Um, because that encourages oxytocin and things like that.
SPEAKER_06:Right, it does. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, I'm I um thank you for my 101 on that. I no, like seriously. I had a traumatic birth with my son, so I didn't get that. So like it was like placenta, rip it away. Like I was like, oh, okay. Like, I don't know, I was 20. I didn't know anything that was going on. I was like, whatever. You're you're like three decades older than me, I'll listen to you. But uh, you know, that's it all makes perfect sense. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, I'm really happy with how that all went though, and um, we let the birth photographers stayed for all of this process, so we just have the most amazing photos.
SPEAKER_06:That is my dream. I want I want one. I think that that is so because the memories live in your head forever, but to have a tangible photo to just be like and like share that joy with other people, be like, yeah, see, that's the moment that I'm telling you about right there. That see their happiness? That's it, that's why I did it. That's it right there. Absolutely, and then they're like, oh my gosh, look at their, you know. So oh my gosh, I envy you. That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, were they able to get their own room after delivery?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So we went up to the postnatal ward. We had um, we each had a single room next door to each other. They obviously had the baby with them. Um, and I was just hanging out in my room. I had my husband stay for that first night. I was a little bit like I didn't know if I would be lonely in a postpartum room without a baby to look after because I hadn't done that before. Um uh yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Like a little spa day, if you ask me. It's like peace and quiet.
SPEAKER_03:I'm like, go.
SPEAKER_06:Leave me with my food and my TV in peace.
SPEAKER_03:Um so we stayed in hospital for two nights. Oh yeah. Um because I was going the plan was for me to express for them for a while. And I honestly I hate pumps so much, and I hate hand expressing. So the idea was that I would do the feeds during the day while we were in hospital, and then they would do it overnight. So I had antenatally expressed colostrum for them, so they used that overnight for him, and then I did the feeds during the day until my milk came in, which happened really quickly because that's when my body does it. Yeah, um, and then we went home, so they drove me home with their baby. It was really sweet. Um, and we had talked like antenatally, or maybe even before I was pregnant, I can't remember. Um, about so I was sort of planning for, you know, if I don't manage to have a vaginal bird, I'm gonna have another C-section, what is this gonna look like? Um because I think this is probably really different in Australia, but there's a psychologist down here that kind of specializes in surrogacy, and she has um like a bit of a guide for essentially like weaning contact away between the surrogate and the baby. So um there's quite a lot of respect for that like physiological process. Um, because you know, as surrogates, our head and our heart know that that baby isn't ours, and we don't want that baby, and it is where it is supposed to be. Like we get so much joy from seeing it with its family, yeah. But our body doesn't know that that's our baby.
SPEAKER_06:You you have milk that has come in. Where's like you know, there's no baby to take that from you. You have hormones that are like, where's where's the thing? Where's the thing? Where's where where is it? It was just with me, like we're like, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And like, why aren't you looking after it? And right, you know, like your body goes through this hormonal process. Um, and in Australia, the idea is that there's quite a lot of respect for that process. Okay. Um, so the boys came and stayed just down the road from us for a couple of weeks so that they could like facilitate contact between me and the baby. So I went and visited them like pretty much every day. I think except for one day, and we would spend a few hours together, and I'd like to feed him while we were there, deliver the milk to them.
SPEAKER_06:Um I am amazed at that. That is such like the utmost respect from them because they have a new baby and they're not in their house.
SPEAKER_03:I know massive, massive thing to do.
SPEAKER_04:It's huge.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Wow.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And just um I was so grateful for that because we do live an hour away from each other. Um and so it would have been really hard for for us to see each other sort of with any regularity. Um every few days is probably all we could have managed. Whereas this was like such a beautiful way to like for me to kind of separate without it being this like I don't know, harsh process. Yeah. Because I I um I feel like that as like a normal thinking adult, I thought I had more control over my feelings than I've realized I do.
SPEAKER_06:You just had a baby, you have lots of fun.
SPEAKER_03:Those hormones are wild and intense. Um and even with this like really slow process of us separating, it was still like some days were hard. And I can't imagine how much harder it would have been if I hadn't been able to show my body, look, the baby's right here, he's being cared for. And because I felt like every time I saw him, it would like calm my body down. Like, look, there he is, he's thriving, he's happy. And I would get so much joy watching his parents look after him as well, like just being in their space.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And they they always made sure to invite me over when like important people were meeting him for the first time because they just knew how much joy I would get from that. So I was there when like their parents met him for the first time, and when their sisters met him for the first time, like it was just so beautiful to be able to share those experiences with them.
SPEAKER_06:You hit the jackpot with like such wonderful humans.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, they're absolutely gorgeous. I love them.
SPEAKER_06:Oh my gosh. Okay, so you said you're nine weeks postpartum, right? Yeah, you're crazy, girl, for sitting here talking to me. I appreciate you. Oh my gosh. Um how are you feeling?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, really good. Physically amazing. I cannot believe what a big difference it was having a vaginal birth versus a C-section. It was right.
SPEAKER_06:This is your first one.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so amazing physically. Um, and even so I stopped pumping like a week ago. Yeah, a week ago. Um yeah, I I do not know how you guys over there do it for so long. Honestly.
SPEAKER_06:I have never, and I probably will never. That's that's a lot.
SPEAKER_03:But like expressing in America is like a thing. Yeah, no, it it is.
SPEAKER_06:And like when the IP Yeah, when the IPs are like, oh no, we're good, like we're gonna go formula, or we we we found you know different on our own or whatever it is, then the surrogates still tend to go on and like find other people to like give it to. And I'm like, this is that's a huge commitment.
SPEAKER_03:It is massive. Honestly, it was it was just impacting my life too much, you know, trying to pump in the morning when I'm getting the kids ready for school and like planning to pump in the middle of the day when I was out and about. It was just a pain in the butt.
SPEAKER_06:Um for real.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:It's like you have a baby, like uh it is. It's like that's how much time it takes from you, is like real baby time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. But like I loved breastfeeding my kids. I do not love pumping. That was I don't blame me.
SPEAKER_06:I don't blame you.
SPEAKER_03:I'm really happy to have like been able to provide him with milk for a little while. Sure. Um, but yeah, definitely I wouldn't have been keen to do it for longer than I did.
SPEAKER_06:No, and especially since you guys don't get compensated for your expressed milk like we do. We yeah, it's not a lot, but they still do. Um have you seen him since?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Um, so oh, we've caught up. I would say when they went home was like two and a half weeks postpartum, and I still saw them like every couple of days. Um, and at the this point, I'm still seeing them like once to twice a week now. So I saw them on Wednesday last week. But it's so lovely because I feel like we're like we're proper friends. We enjoy each other's company, like that's each up.
SPEAKER_06:And that's how you know you got the perfect match, like really absolutely seriously.
SPEAKER_03:My kids love them and they love our kids, like it's just yeah, it's really lovely. We've been on holidays together. Um, like it's just yeah, they're just normal mates now.
SPEAKER_06:Um I love that. That's sweet. Okay, and I have to ask, because like obviously the controversial question we get here um are your kids negatively affected by you doing surrogacy, or are they like, cool, mom? Like this was awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, my daughter is certainly like she could not care less, honestly. She she's just like, whatever. Whatever, yeah. My son, uh, he's a little bit trickier, honestly, because he was obsessed with the baby in my belly when I was pregnant. He knew it wasn't coming home with Dustler, obviously. Um but I was expecting postpartum for him to miss the baby. I thought he would want to see the baby all of the time. Um but he like he loves the baby. Don't get me wrong, he loves having a cuddle. He's like the king of the one-minute cuddle and then he gets bored. Um fair. He has had like, yeah, he's had quite a bit of separation anxiety from me since I had the baby. Um, do I think that it has negatively affected him overall though? Absolutely not. I um I feel like it's such a beautiful example for our kids of like just doing something out of the kindness of your heart for someone else.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And it's given them this like extended family. The boys talk about uh like me and Dan as being like an auntie and an uncle to their baby, and like my kids are their cousins, so it's given them like this whole extra chunk of family that they wouldn't have had otherwise, which is so beautiful.
SPEAKER_06:Um biggest benefit and plus of surrogacy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and partly why I chose to do this for same-sex couple is because my son is like quite flamboyant, he is adorable. Um, he went through a phase of like telling us that he was a girl, and I'd be like, Yeah, like whatever you do, you mate. Um live your life. And he yeah, he was like growing his hair to look like Elsa when he was four. He wouldn't let me cut it for ages. Yeah. And I I just thought, you know, I have some queer friends. They had talked about this like feeling of like when they realized that they were gay and they were gonna come out, this like grieving process that sort of happened when they realized that it would be hard for them to have a family. Um and I was just like, I don't want that for Jake. Like if he does end up, you know, whoever he is when he's an adult, I don't want ever I don't want him to ever worry that he's not gonna be able to have a baby. Um, I don't want that to be part of his like story. Um and the best way to show him that was for it to be right in front of him.
SPEAKER_06:Um I have all the gooswamps in the whole world. I love that. I could literally cry right now. Like that is no, seriously. I um I just oh my I'm I don't ever cry on this podcast, Caleb. What the heck? Um, that is seriously so sweet. Oh I can't keep my words together. That's literally so sweet.
SPEAKER_07:I because I just, you know, I I I'm I'm like choked up. This is so not normal.
SPEAKER_06:Um that's extremely sweet. Wow. Wow. I love that. And I love the fact that he whoever he is. I love that he knows who he is and he's confident in who he is. I'm not even that confident in who I am, and I'm 30 years old. So like I would I think I need a one-on-one session to like figure out who I am. Wow. I love that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. He's not like he's not as flamboyant as he used to be.
SPEAKER_06:Like he's um, but you know what? The fact that that mom and dad are like live your life, be you, I don't care. Like and like also like if this is the road that you go down, look what look what mommy just did for people that are down the same road. It will never it'll never be a negative thought that crosses his mind because mommy set an example that's like this is normal. What is your problem?
SPEAKER_04:Like, yeah. Oh my god, I love you.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, Kayla, get me Jesus.
SPEAKER_06:Um, no, but that's that's very sweet. I I absolutely love that. I was I was thinking, oh, is she gonna give the same example as you know, my mom did, where it was like, they don't have a uterus, how are they gonna have a baby? Which like for sure, that's probably part of their grieving, right? Because it's like, how do we have a baby? Because there is no neither of us can carry it yet. You know, like who knows what's gonna happen in the decade. But uh, very sweet, very sweet. I love that. Your story is so beautiful. I'm annoyed that Australia doesn't want to compensate you guys, and I'm annoyed about a few things that Australia has laws about surrogacy, but um you seem like you made it a great one.
SPEAKER_03:Aw, I feel like our our whole journey was just like so wholesome.
SPEAKER_06:For real. And the fact that you guys are like the fact that they like came and like stayed near you for two and a half weeks. Like, I the only reason that my couple stayed near me-ish, like, is because that I had babies for people overseas. So like they couldn't like leave right away. Like they had to stay. And they had to stay for like two weeks to get their passport. So like it wasn't like a choice. You know, so I think that that's really, really, really lovely. And you just seem like a beautiful person. Are you gonna do it again? I oh, that's a hard question.
SPEAKER_03:I really nine. Weeks out.
SPEAKER_06:So like I don't really need an answer, but like, do you want to do it again?
SPEAKER_03:I would love to. I just um I don't think I would ever do it for new IPs. Um only because like the process that we sort of went through to like build this really close relationship, go through all of the things. Um I just don't know that I have the space in my life for another close relationship like that. Um like we are busy people and like I love our friends now. It seems weird to call them IPs still when truly parents. Yeah, they're your mates now, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, I just don't think I could do that again. I would love to do a sibling journey for them if they ever wanted a sibling. Are you gonna do a sibling journey?
SPEAKER_02:Um perfect.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't know. I think it would take a little while for my husband to like come down off of Saragacy and then be ready for that again. I think um, you know, it's a lot on our families when when we're pregnant. Um and probably I think it was a bit more intense than than either of us remembered because I hadn't been pregnant for like six years. Um so yeah, it was a lot. So I think though, like he loves the boys and he loves like the boys have got us in like this family album app, so we see like photos of the baby every day, and it's so beautiful like seeing them with him. I I don't think it would take much for me to convince him, honestly. Probably not.
SPEAKER_06:Like if it's with them, you guys already know them, you guys already have the relationship, so like a sibling journey seems like a no-brainer at that point.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't know whether they want a sibling journey, right?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, they're only what nine weeks, only nine weeks. They're new parents. Let's give them some time. Just wait. Yeah, 100%. Oh, Kayla, you're like such a beautiful angel. I like no, I I do, like I just I'm less like, oh, you're so sweet. I I can't. I uh your story is so like your story. I'm so happy. Thank you for helping me start off 2026 with such a great story, and now crap, now I have to like live up to this like the rest of the year. It's fine. We'll do we'll it'll it'll it'll be fine. But no, I'm I'm really happy. Thank you. Thank you for listening to our podcast. Thank you, podcast and Spotify, and wherever you listen to your podcast, thanks for like making it to Australia. What in the world? Never would have dreamt this. But um this is I've um I really do hope that some changes do come to Australia because I was telling you before we started that I I did that. Is it called SBS? So it'll be out when this when this comes out, where they talk, they're they're doing like a whole segment on IBF and they want to change because you had said there's like this whole reform happening, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. I think they're trying to get it, they're trying to make the laws federal so that it's not different in all the states. Right. Um, I think they're trying to decriminalize commercial uh commercial surrogacy because there are some states where it's still illegal. Um and they are trying to bring in like a compensated model in Australia so that like not a large amount of compensation like what you guys have, but maybe like a smaller amount.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah, because that was a lot of the questions that they asked me in an interview, like how much have I made? Do I believe in commercial surrogacy? Like things like that. And that was the first time I heard it. Well, not the first time I heard it be called commercial surrogacy, but I, you know, big conversation on like altruistic versus commercial, and so um and then literally like two days after I filmed with them, you messaged me and I was like, I'm being punked. This is so much Australia right now. What? It's a lot. I was like, this is perfect timing, I'm here for it. So I do hope that they that they've that they fix some of their laws because nothing they nothing about surrogacy is wrong. Yet I'm so biased, I know that, but like when you really do step back and like look at it, like what what what's evil here? I don't see any evil.
SPEAKER_03:Like I know. I also think um it was interesting because before I did it, I was like, oh no, I wouldn't want to be compensated because I feel like then it might give the IPs like a bad taste of reason to like well no to feel like they could just cut that relationship without I see being a big deal, like something I feel for, and like now the job is done, like then like our relationship is now done. Yeah, and that wasn't what I was after. Um, but now that I've finished, I'm like, hang on a second. Like the IBF specialists are making a ton of money, the lawyers are making a ton of money, the councils are making a ton of money.
SPEAKER_06:Everyone makes money, but you and you're the one start not sorry, you're the one doing all the work. Like you are. Somebody did a contract, congratulations. I could put words on a paper too. Like some I couldn't do the whole IVF situation, so like sure, like you should probably get some like money over there or whatever. Not saying that like lawyers shouldn't get money either, but like especially since the fact that like your contracts don't matter until it's like the birth. Yeah, it's a wild, that's a wild situation right there. Yes, you guys you guys should you guys are a massive part of this, and you guys should 100% be compensated because it is a job. I I know people hate to like put it as that, but it is. I always say like you're a nanny, like pre-birth side. Like I'm taking care of your baby, like I am, and I'm happy to, just like nannies are when they're watching the kids at home. We're happy to, but I can't do it for free.
SPEAKER_03:Like Yeah, absolutely. Um so yeah, I think my idea on that has changed a little bit. Um I I don't like the idea of it being because our journeys here are a lot less expensive, I guess, because we're not being compensated. So I don't like the idea of it being super expensive for IPs, like it's already quite expensive, but it's certainly not at the level that you guys are at. Right.
SPEAKER_05:For sure.
SPEAKER_03:So I don't like the idea of it being like this large amount and certainly not like, you know, I feel like you guys get paid a very fair amount for the work that you're doing. Yeah. I don't think I don't feel the need for that myself.
SPEAKER_08:Sure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think I think it should be compensated though.
SPEAKER_06:I I think so too. I think you I think surrogates should always have a say in the amount of compensation. Because I know surrogates here that are like, eh, I don't care. I don't care about the compensation, or eh, I'll take it really, really low. And then I know surrogates that are like, mm-mm, bump that sucker up. And it's like, all right, well, you know, there's to each their own. You know.
SPEAKER_03:And I do I do feel like my IPs looked after me really well, though. Like, they seem to. Like, yeah. They sent me for breakfast massages. One of them was like cooking and filling up our freezer with food. Like it was, it's not like I wasn't looked after. I was. So that I think that's probably why I feel like I don't I wouldn't need like a big base compensation like you guys have. Um but I I know that I'm more lucky. Like there are plenty of teams that aren't lucky like I was, that you know, the surrogates aren't looked after in the way that I was, and maybe their relationship doesn't continue in the way that they planned. Um, and those surrogates are left with nothing, essentially. So um, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:No, yeah. I I have hope for Australia. I mean, you guys gave us Bluey, so the least we could do is teach you about surrogacy. Put that in an episode, jeepers.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, wouldn't that be interesting?
SPEAKER_06:Oh fun. I already watched Bluey without my kids, so like I would be obsessed with that episode. Like, let's get real. Oh my god. This has been an absolute delight. Thank you so much. Are we leaving anything out? I don't think so. So I do ask um all my last question always is what's your one tidbit of advice for someone that's going into surrogacy? Uh doesn't have to be one, but like, what's your, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I um I think like do your research. Like you said, um, with surrogates wanting to be pregnant four seconds after they decide to do it. That was for sure me. Um and I decided to do this at the beginning of 2023.
SPEAKER_04:Um goodness.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And this was like honestly, in Australia, this is a quick journey.
SPEAKER_06:Like this is quick. This is this is how long my journey has been, jeepers.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but I think you know, when I decided I wanted to do it, I knew absolutely nothing about it. And I really took the time to understand what I was getting myself in for. Um, and I think that's really important. And like choose your IPs wisely to make sure it's people that are really on the same page as you are in terms of your values. Um, be honest in your communication.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Wonderful advice. It tr it it is. And you gotta remember everyone's on their best behavior when you meet, just saying so our surrogates. We're all on our best behavior, we all want to be liked.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06:But you know, you can tell. You can tell if someone's genuine for sure. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. I am so pleased. Thank you so much. This has been, I feel you are literally starting your morning and I'm ending my day, which is and it's like tomorrow where you are. And I feel like I just had like my eighth cup of coffee. So I'm just like, I'm like on a high right now. So I'm like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks so much for having me.
SPEAKER_06:Of course. I would love to have you back. I would love to hear more, I would love to talk to you. Like, I just this is so fun. I'm I'm loving it. So thank you for reaching out. Thanks for supporting like literally across like oceans. I cannot tell you how honored, like truly. Like, I'm like, what in the world? I uh like seriously, my heart is like completely full. So thank you. I love listening to you guys.
SPEAKER_03:Give Ellen a big hug for me.
SPEAKER_06:Well, I definitely will. I know she's sad she's not here, but she does say hello.
SPEAKER_03:So all right. Well, I hope you have a nice evening. Thank you. I hope you have a wonderful day.
SPEAKER_06:All right, next time. Thanks, Kayla.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, see ya. Bye.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, that was a little longer than I had expected, but this was also wonderful, and I am like, what just happened? That was like so phenomenal. Kayla, thank you so much. Literally can't process everything that we just talked about, and the fact that like I just I'm so just like, huh, I'm like Cloud9, and I just think that you are wonderful, and your journey is like your journey is like poster story and should be poster story for surrogacy everywhere because how how sweet and beautiful. So goodness. Well, if anybody would like to share their story or have questions, please feel free to reach out to us on Instagram at StopPeriodsit Period Surrogate, or you can email us at stop periodsitperiod surrogate at gmail.com. Thanks everybody, talk to you next time. Before we wrap up, we want to give a huge thank you to our sponsors, Northwest Surrogacy Center, New York Surrogacy Center, Paying It Forward Surrogacy. Their continued support helps us share real stories to educate our community and connect families through the incredible journey of surrogacy. Thanks so much for tuning in to Stopsit Surrogate, where every story matters and every journey is worth sharing. We'll see you next time.