Stop. Sit. Surrogate.

Where Love Isn’t Ownership: Redefining Attachment In Surrogacy

• Kenedi & Ellen Smith • Season 6 • Episode 3

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Brittany’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pavinourway?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Shelbie’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/surroshelbie?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Most people ask the same question first: “Don’t you get attached to the baby?” We take that head on with two experienced gestational carriers who explain, with compassion and clarity, how surrogates prepare, set healthy boundaries, and celebrate the handoff without trying to keep what was never theirs. The story here isn’t about loss—it’s about stewardship, respect, and the euphoria of seeing parents meet their child.

We talk candidly about where real attachment lands: with the intended parents and the shared mission. You’ll hear how early transparency, a thoughtful match, and clear agreements create trust from transfer to delivery. Our guests share why emotions run high at birth (and why those tears aren’t about “giving up” a baby), how they navigated faith and family pushback, and the surprising reason many surrogates choose to do it again. We also explore the underrated power of closure—brief private time after delivery that helps a surrogate’s kids say goodbye and marks the end of a profound chapter.

If you’re a first‑time surrogate, an intended parent, or simply curious, this conversation offers practical guidance: what to include in your agreement, how to set communication expectations, and ways to talk to your children in clear, age‑appropriate language. We highlight the role of supportive agencies, the strength of modern surrogate communities, and the difference between love, care, and parental attachment. By the end, you’ll understand why surrogacy is less about possession and more about precise, generous care.

Listen now, share with someone who still confuses love with attachment, and help us spread informed, human‑centered surrogacy education. If this resonated, subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what part of the journey do you want us to unpack next?

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Welcome & Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_01

Welcome. We are a mother-daughter podcast about all things surrogacy. Together, we have brought eight beautiful babies into this world, and we would like to share through education and knowledge about surrogacy with those who want to educate themselves on the topic. This is Stop, Sit Surrogate. Have you ever thought about growing your family but aren't sure what your options are? Or maybe you're someone who wants to help others experience the joy of parenthood? That's where Northwest Surrogacy Center comes in. Northwest surrogacy center is a full service surrogacy agency that guides intended parents and surrogates through every step of the journey, with compassion, transparency, and personalized care. From matching to legal support to emotional wellness, they make what can feel an overwhelming feel immediately human and supported. Whether you're considering surrogacy to grow your family, or you're ready to become a surrogate yourself, the Northwest Surrogacy Center is there to walk beside you every step of the way. Visit the NorthwesturrogacyCenter.com at NWSurrogacyCenter.com to learn more and take the first step towards something truly life-changing. Northwest surrogacy center. Love makes families.

SPEAKER_00

Everybody, welcome back to Stoppes at Surrogate, uh edition of Friday Facts with Kennedy and Ellen. And we have a couple of lovely guests joining us. They can introduce themselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Is that a question?

SPEAKER_00

Kind of a question.

SPEAKER_02

We've seen them before, but let's reintroduce. Yeah. So I'm Brittany. I am a one-time gestational carrier. Um, I delivered April of 2025. And so I'm just about a year postpartum now, getting really close, and I'm actually matched for my second journey. So oh my gosh, look at you.

SPEAKER_01

Go mute! How fun. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03

And then our other guest. And my name is Shelby. I have done a wonderful journey. I'm on my second journey and hopefully to doing another transfer very soon.

The Big Question: Attachment

SPEAKER_01

Wow, you guys are both second timers. How fun. All right. Well, shall we jump into what this topic's about? The lovely. I don't know about you guys, but this is always something that I get. Like whenever I talk to women or their husbands or whatever that are in the community as of yet. And the question I always get is, well, aren't you attached to the baby? It's like no, I'm not. I don't, I'm not the baby.

SPEAKER_02

But you give it up. How do you yeah?

SPEAKER_01

But so how do you ladies feel? Like obviously, like you guys know that this is something that's said around in in life. So do you guys get attached? I guess let's start with that.

SPEAKER_03

I just tell them that, you know, when I went into this, I was 100% done having kids, and I felt no attachment because I tied my tubes. And when I had my youngest, we were like, we're done, like because he was a surprise. So we were like, we're done. I we're tying my tubes. And so I just don't feel like I don't feel the attachment. Like it's it's not his DNA, it's not mine. So there was no really like you know, there was nothing sentimental um going into it. It was more like I was I wanted to help someone who couldn't have, you know, um kids.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Yeah, and I kind of agree with that. Like anytime everyone, I I go to church regularly, things like that. So everyone at church is always like, Well, aren't you like worried about giving up the baby? I'm like, Well, I'm not giving her up, but I'm giving her back to her parents. Um I'm I'm just babysitting and and keeping her keeping her safe. Um, but like also I went into it knowing that this is what I was going to do.

SPEAKER_03

You have to mentally prepare, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and and you've got, I mean, however long before you even do a transfer, you know, to to mentally get to that point. You go through the psyche valves, you know, going into it that this is a hundred percent not yours. And honestly, I don't want another one like you, Shelby. I'm like done. I'm done. Um, and so like I never, yeah, you know, it was great to have her in my belly and things like that. And like I had a sense of attachment in a certain way, but never as a like, oh, this is my baby way.

Loving The Parents, Not Claiming The Baby

SPEAKER_03

Sure. It's more like with my first one, like, you know, there's like, yeah, there's like a little bit of an attachment. I don't know if you feel this way, but there was like a little bit of attachment with us only because we were really close. And we still are, but we call it as like, oh, that's you know, your cousin, that's our cousin, or kind of like a distant family member, nothing like, oh, you know, that's their sibling or that's our kid. Like, you know, it's not that type of an attachment.

SPEAKER_01

So would you say, because based off that, because that's where my mind goes, right? Like, whenever people are like, oh, aren't you like you get like I've gotten that, like you're giving up the baby, and it's like my freaking baby, and it was never mine to begin with. I'm giving her him or her back. But um, you know, I had well, one and a half really good journeys, and I really did enjoy my IP like a lot. Like, and that was where my attachment went. It was more towards like, oh, I love them. I don't know this little person I'm growing, I know the people on the outside world, like I know the people that I'm helping. So that was I I relate to you on that, Shelby, where like I was sad to see them go, especially because one of my couples like lives across the country lives across the world. So like yeah, that's exactly where mine is.

SPEAKER_03

He's in Spain, yeah, and you know, he you know, they stayed, you know, here for about two or three months after the baby was born. So not even just like me and him, we got close, but like our own kids got close, especially like my oldest girl, like she got very attached. Like she has, you know, when she when she knew that the day that we left, like she just balled her eyes out, you know, because she was so she was so sad. So I was sad for her, and I was sad for myself too, because I was just like, you know, we did bond a little bit, but it wasn't nothing like, oh, like you're taking my baby, or you're you know, like things like that. I was just like I was like, it was more like like a cousin, like type of thing. It was like a distant family. Like I didn't like you know, we still check up every belt once a month, once a week, depending on how busy our schedules are, but yeah, I mean, we don't I I felt the attached to the process.

Kids, Goodbyes, And Healthy Closure

SPEAKER_00

It was this is my job, it's part of a journey together, and I needed to get baby or babies to the point where where they could exist outside of me without my protection anymore, and with their parents. So, yes, not attached per se to the baby, um right, the journey. And the first pregnancy, I think for me was way different than let's say the second or the third, because it's the first time you're doing it, you're not quite sure what this process is, you're not quite sure all those big feelings come up at the end when you've just given birth, the hormones are going crazy, and they come in and reunite with this baby and take it. So, in that regard, there was a lot of sadness, but it wasn't that I wasn't pregnant anymore, not taking the baby home, it was just the end of the journey that I think we all deeply fall in love with. That's the the whole process why we're doing this. It takes a special person, yeah. Yeah, you get attached to the family, but not never did I get attached to the babies per se. I wanted them to get here healthy, but just never like, oh gosh, they're leaving because they weren't mine, just like y'all said, they're they're not ours, not ours.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I feel that, but like loss of yeah, it's not even necessarily loss of like purpose that you feel, but like just that, oh well, you have all this hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, you're always doing something, you're always doing something, and then baby comes and you're like done. Now what do we do? Like that's one of these things, yeah. You get attached to the journey itself for sure. And I mean, honestly, that's that's why you know 80-90% of us do it again because we get attached to it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I signed up very quickly, I want to say two months after I had the um after the first my first journey. So I I did not there was something, I mean, I was just like, I want to do it again, but then a part of me was like, Oh, should I like I don't want to get like that attack, you know, like I don't want to get upset this way, but at the same time I was like, okay, go do it. Like we'll we'll we'll see how far it goes.

SPEAKER_00

Because let's just face it, we're good at it. I'm sorry. They're good at it. They're good at and you want to continue to do things that you're good at, sorry, but you do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's nice having whether people want to look at this as selfish or not, but it's nice having a purpose, like having a belonging, having a reason, like being needed and wanted in a good way, not in like this, oh, I'm needy and like I need all the attention. Oh, yeah, I get where it's just like, oh, look, I I'm able to do something, I'm and I'm doing it and like I'm being very helpful.

SPEAKER_00

For someone else, right? Yeah, right, exactly. Creating a family. That's huge, huge.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Do you ladies feel uh do you feel attached? Wait, hold on, sorry. That was a different question. Oh, do you think people confuse attachment with love or care?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there's a blurry line.

SPEAKER_00

It is a blurry line.

Love Versus Attachment Explained

SPEAKER_02

I think it's a blurry line, and I think like because I love my Cyril babe and I see pictures of her and everything like that, but it's not a like I feel like people think attachment is that parental attachment. And I know we all kind of understand that parental attachment part of it. Whereas, like for me, like I love her, but I don't feel the attachment, like of oh, I need to know everything about her when she starts crawling and all of that kind of stuff. But I still love her, so there is like that gray line, I feel like. Um, so yes and no, like it depends on the day and who you're talking to. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01

Like what context it's being used in. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I agree on that because like I love getting updates, but it's not something like I need to know right away. Like he will update me, you know, every once of the week, or once a month, like, oh, you know, he's going to a new school next week, you know, we just sign him up, or you know, he's talking more, like he's he's you know, learning English or anything like that. It's not something that I need to know like right away, but I love knowing, you know, that he's progressing. Like I I think, you know, and I see it as like, you know, I helped him, you know, grow his family. And I'm very thankful for that. Like, not as where I need to know everything that he what he's doing all the time.

SPEAKER_00

Right. I get that. I look at that as a respect too. It's a mutual respect between the parents that you're helping the IPs and the surrogate in their family. Like it's it's a respectful thing to let them know how this baby's doing. I mean, you grew this baby for nine months or what have you, and and it's not our right to get to know, but because of the relationships we've built with these parents, it's just a mutual respect. So I think back to your point, uh, it's attachment to others who are not as versed in surrogacy as those who do it. Yeah, it's not as love and love and attachment are different. They are, but right others don't feel that they are different. Right. They feel like you grew this baby, you have to be attached to this baby, you have to be loved to this baby, you should be going through depression because this baby got taken from you. Right. Yeah, no, no, I gave this baby back as it was never mine. You know that's just helping. Yeah, that's the hardest thing for people to get. That's it, really is the hardest thing.

SPEAKER_03

I don't think anybody will understand unless they go through it or their partner is going through it, or they're on the other side of the surrogacy where they have, you know, they're trying to build their family. Nobody is gonna know, and that's what I tell everybody, even like my closest friends, and I tell I'm honest with them like you guys will never know how exactly it is until you actually go through it. And some people have one, you know, they wanted to try and they tried, and they're like, I you know, it wasn't for them, you know. It's they feel that they would get attached, you know, too easily. And I respect that, but you know, it's because it's hard, you know, you have to mentally prepare yourself sometimes.

Faith, Family, And Different Paths

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And I think I when I because the thing I keep going back to in my head, because I got it a lot when my son was on a football team and you know, we had just come out with we had just come out with our book at that time, and so like I was like, I I was bringing stuff with me and I was working on stuff like at practices and stuff, and I had a couple of the moms come up and be like, and like just kind of not like real into me about like questions and things, but their husbands were with them and was like, oh no, I would never let her do that because like we we like we could we would just want to keep the baby and blah blah blah blah. And so I was like, oh, but I don't love the baby like I love my child. Like I I love the baby because like it's a baby and like how cute and how fun and like how sweet and like I helped bring them here, but like I don't love them as my flesh and blood or my family or my niece or my nephew. Like I have a different type of respect and and care for them, and so even trying to explain that to people who are very set in their ways is completely I mean that's fine. View it how you want to view it. Clearly, you're never gonna be a target. So like I'm not gonna sit here and be like, it's the greatest thing ever. Like, that's cool, like, do your thing. But it I I definitely feel like a lot of the times when I would get questioned, like, oh my gosh, how can you give up the baby? I'm not giving up the baby. I don't love the baby, the baby is not my relative. Like, I I definitely would love to eventually talk to someone who has been a surrogate for a family member because I wonder how different of a mindset that is, or if it's not like I that to be caring, or do you think giving that using their egg?

SPEAKER_00

Which one are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01

I think maybe just carrying, not their egg. I think they're I think their egg is different. I think for anybody, any traditional surrogate. But at the same time, we've talked to traditional surrogate, so like they feel the same way as us, and like kudos to you guys. I couldn't do that. Like, then I would be like, that's a many me. It can't go anywhere. Like, yeah, yeah. But to do it for like a family member where like maybe if my sister needed one and I needed to carry for her, and that's my niece or nephew, I don't know how my heart would feel. Not that I'd want to keep the baby, but like, you know, it would just be different.

SPEAKER_03

How different it would be compared to like someone that you're just caring for that you it's like a yeah, right. Yeah, I think it I I've thought about that too. I think it would be completely different because that's your family member, yeah, but in a different way, like, yeah, you still love them, but you know that's not your biological child still. Right. Yeah. And I've always, you know, I've thought about like, you know, in situations not traditional, I think that would be a whole nother scenario where it's like, that's my kid.

Feeling Kicks Without Owning Feelings

SPEAKER_01

Right. And it's funny because like me and you, you know, like we think that, like, because that's like the way our brains are wired, but at the same time, listen, no, we've talked to, they're like, nope, totally like we feel how you guys feel. And I'm like, that's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03

Like, that's so it also goes into religion because people will be like, Oh, I don't know how you could do that, and things like that. I know I had family members who thought like that, and I was like, look, I was just like, you know, I'm still religious, but I'm not to the point where like I'm not gonna do this. Like, I want I've always wanted to do this since you know my mom, my mom passed away. I you know, that was like nine years ago, and I still do, you know. I'm still, you know, I'm still gonna see, you know, how far I can get because I want to do at least like two more. So and nobody, you know, I was like, and I'm an adult, I'm not gonna, you know, get you guys the like tell me no. Right, right. Different opinions.

SPEAKER_01

It's just very interesting. I it it is surrogacy, being a surrogate is definitely a different type of mindset. Because I I tell people, I'm like, if you're going into this thinking you're gonna be attached, this is probably not for you. Like, if you cannot get off of that topic, this is not a place for you because you can't disassociate. And like, in a way, surrogates do disassociate because that's that's literally the only process in being able to do this. I mean, people might fight me on that, but it I don't know how you couldn't disassociate and and be cool.

SPEAKER_00

There is whether a surrogate wants to admit it or not, there's disassociation going on, there's some level of it right a single one of us. Right. Some of us have it more, some of us has it less, depending on the journey you're going through. Right, right. You have to just coping with that. It depends on the parents too. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And how that journey goes.

SPEAKER_01

So when you guys felt baby kick and you know, like all the the sweet little things in that would happen in our own pregnancies, right? Did you guys get emotionally did you guys feel any type of emotion with it? Like, I don't want to say emotional attachment, but since we're talking about attachment, I guess.

Preparing Children And Setting Language

SPEAKER_03

I didn't get emotional for myself, like knowing that it was my kid. I got emotional for the dad because I was happy for him because that was a part of me that knew like this baby's healthy, this baby's growing, this baby's getting stronger. I was just like, you know, he's gonna come here, earth side, you know, back to him. That's what I was emotional about. It was nothing like this is my baby, like I'm feeling him cake, or anything like that. Like, I and I would record it, say, like I would record like the cakes and how many and all that. And I would send it to him and he would like start ball like so he, you know, that that's where it got emotional. It wasn't for like myself, it was more for him.

SPEAKER_02

Him, yeah. Yeah, and like for me specifically, like I think because I have such a big medical background, like being an LPN and things like that, being a doula, and I've seen it like you know, hundreds of times, been in the birthing room, all that, like I just think it's cool. And like that was the emotion I felt. Like especially like the first couple times, it's like, oh my gosh, this is just so cool, what the human body can do. Like, that's where my brain went. It was never emotional for me.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and like I'm pretty sure you've seen it too. If you're in the medical field and everything, too, you've probably seen it on the other side. So the fact that it was becoming on your side, it was like, you know, it was emotional.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, when I had my kids though, like for me, any time a baby moves, like whether it's, you know, one of my clients or me or whatever, I just think it's like the coolest thing. Like, even with my own kids. I never really got emotional with my kids. I don't dissociated with my first a little bit because of loss and things like that. But um, but I just have always thought it's like, oh my gosh, I cannot believe like there is a like there's something in there.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And that's always where my brain has always gone. It's never gone like the emotional side, like, oh my gosh, things like that. But that's probably just my weird medical brain. Um and so, yeah, so there was never really emotion there. Um, but like, like Shelby, I would take videos and everything like that, but for parents, like I would it would be like a quick video, send it right away. Um and like my kids, even um, like just talking about movement and stuff like that with the kids, like they just thought it was cool. I'm like, oh yeah, she's moving, you want to feel? And they're like, oh yeah. And but it was never like feel because this is what you're gonna feel on the outside, or things like that. Um, so it was very much a oh, look at what a woman's body can do and what happens like when a baby grows and and things like that. So yeah, never really emotional about any of that. So which is yeah, is is great for me because I'm like, yeah, no, but it's another cool thing.

Sponsor Break: Supportive Agencies

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it well, it is a cool thing, and like it's just it's like and like you said too, Shelby, like it's always like this security for me, it's always been like a security feeling for me. Like once I feel them moving, I'm like, oh okay, good. Now we can track that you're still alive, yeah, and like everything's good. Cause like it's terrifying. Yeah, it's scary. Like, oh, okay, but like when you move, yeah, okay, we're good. You're here. I got you. Like, you're definitely yeah. So you guys were you brought. brought up your kids a bit um but do you guys think your kids were attached or did you I don't even know how I'm trying to phrase this it's just like I always I along with like oh don't like you give up the baby and like you must be attached and blah blah blah or your poor children like they're gonna like you're ripping their siblings away I have a lot to say to that but I'll let you guys go first.

Birth Day Emotions And Reality

SPEAKER_00

So like did your kids feel attached or did you phrase it in ways or prepare to take it first go ahead Ellen can I take it for okay my kids got attached more to the IPs they could care less now I should not say care less but they just were not into the pregnancy you especially Kennedy loved my set of IPs that were for the triplets you did. Oh I know you connected you still connect to this day and the trip and that pregnancy for us was just everybody used it as a shock factor because it was 20 some odd years ago everybody used it as a shock factor still do it still do and I let them have it. I used to try and stop them and I'm like you know what let them have their time let let them if this is how they're gonna enjoy it let them enjoy it and so nope they're not ours and there's three and okay so I just kind of stepped and let them kind of have their fun with it. But again it it it the you guys I think you guys were more thrilled when I was done with a surrogacy because then I got six or eight weeks off depending on what kind of delivery I had and I got to hang with you guys. Like we did stuff. We went on a really cool vacation one time like we did stuff. And so they got their mom back.

SPEAKER_01

So it wasn't really more of attachment to the baby it was the families you liked yeah I was just piggybacking off of that literally don't remember you getting time off just remember having fun with the eyepiece what you were ungrateful no I'm just kidding I was in I was in elementary school you're lucky if I remember anything but that's so funny.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah no I I would agree I think my kids were a little younger because this was in 2022 so they were one was six two and then nine um so they were a little bit younger um but they I did have a conversation with the older ones um the baby not so much but it was more the older ones like oh um you know it's just like you know caring for someone who can't you know get pregnant um I was like you know he's a single dad I was just like you know he doesn't have anybody who can carry for him so you know I am and so they weren't really curious at the moment they're like oh okay that's cool you know but I don't think they under really stood um I got some books for them to read um to understand what you know was going on and you know they they still had like oh they still like there was a couple times were like oh that's my brother I'm like no so I would explain it more bring the book out you know things like that um and then once the baby was here they kind of like it cut it clicked but it wasn't like they weren't upset you know they were just very glad that there was a baby around and that they were hanging out and they were like bonding and then that's where you know it came with my oldest she just got very emotional with the baby leaving and I was just like and so we had conversations with me and the dad like we actually like you know went to go get all his paperwork and stuff and we had it like oh they can call him like that's his cousin their cousin or any like kind of like a like distant family member. So and I think that's kind that gives him like a peace of mind especially my oldest at the time.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

The “High” Of A Job Well Done

SPEAKER_03

And you know we'll we'll check up you know every once in a while like oh look like as a baby like you know he's getting big like this year he'll be four. So you know it's like look like he's he's getting so big like you know like he's you know because he only his first language Spanish so um they you know so they can you know communicate to because they also speak it so they um so it it was hard at first it wasn't hard but it was just like difficult because they were so young they couldn't really yeah understand it.

SPEAKER_01

It's a pro it's a it it takes time to process I think not like everybody's different in the way that they process things and you you said your nine year old was sad that that the baby was leaving. Yeah she was nine at the time she'll be 13. Yeah but that that makes sense I mean like this is like are we never gonna see the baby again like like this was it like you know so like I think it's I her feelings are completely valid. But like you said it wasn't like this attachment thing it was just like wait but like m I helped mom and like where's the baby going? Are we ever gonna see him again? It's it's like a type of closure for kids which is why I always think it's so important that the kids meet the baby yes in my personal opinion like before baby goes home because like again yours lives in a different country two of mine live in a different country like you just you just never know what life's gonna bring so closure is a huge deal.

SPEAKER_03

I remember when I was going into my second journey I was like there was a part of me where I was I second guessed myself I was like do I even want do I want the kids to meet the second you know for my second journey but then I really started digging into this like once I get older they're gonna understand more they're you know so and I know they're gonna be very curious. So I still let it happen you know I'm still gonna let them you know see them because they'll be they're 13 10 and 5 now so they're older. Yeah they got a complete understanding like even my youngest he's he'll be like like once I'm getting ready for transfer like you're gonna have a baby on your tummy like you know it's like little things like that like so he knows he understands it. So if he understands and of course the older ones are gonna be like okay like you know I remember when you know you did it did it a few years ago and they'll bring up like oh what about him? Right.

SPEAKER_00

Like what about you know what what about the other baby like and you know so I'll let them know we'll call them video chat so yeah you know big part of the whole family's life for the better part of a year. Yeah lucky and you transform a year yeah better part of a year if not longer. And so you have to have closure they have to have closure. Like agreed it was so norm and now oh now we have a new norm. We got to get used to that it's just change. It's yeah and it's how you all process that and I think kids if you keep them from it you're harming them more than allowing them to experience it and figure it out kind of on their own big opinion Alan big opinion it is a big opinion it's a big opinion and I'm older so I'm allowed to have that opinion I don't care it's fine.

SPEAKER_03

And you said it's you had a different generation and when it first really started compared to here to now that every a lot of more people want to do it now.

Boundaries, Matching, And Trust

SPEAKER_00

And people were very very uh judgy two decades ago hugely judgely what do you what are you what you're doing what? Yeah and religion and faith played a lot into that not necessarily with me but with other people and their opinions.

Why Alone Time Matters For Closure

SPEAKER_02

Yeah another podcast but okay Brittany what about your kids I think so my kids were a part of like everything. Like my kids were next to me when I was giving myself shots my kids were doing everything and like I explained it to them from the very beginning from a very like scientific standpoint because we homeschool our kids. So I just used it as education like literally school for them some of it was um so like they learned that you know the sperm and the egg are made on the outside and then that gets put in mommy's belly because that's them you know their mom and dad and and things like that. So and I have um so right now my kids are eight almost seven and four. So they were seven seven no seven six and uh three when baby was born so like still pretty little my youngest was but even she understood that you know this isn't our baby um and like at the very beginning of my pregnancy she was barely three years old and she even like I have a video of her talking about how she was carrying a baby for someone else and I'm like oh yeah kind of like mommy has a baby in her belly and she's like yeah and I'm like well who's is this our baby no and she's like and so I'm like whose baby is it and she said the IP's names and I'm like see if she can understand it yeah the rest of the world should be able to understand it too. You know at three years old if she can understand that this is not our baby um everyone else should be able to understand. So yeah my kids never had an attachment I think they too had more of an attachment to um the intended parents and their their older son that they have uh because he is the same age as my middle one. So they got along my boys and him got along really well and so when they came to visit so they're constantly can we go see them to see the boy and everything and so um they're they're super excited for when we get to go visit them later this year and everything. So they don't know that that's where we're going yet. But I have been telling them that we are going to go visit them. They just don't know when um and we're hoping to go around her birthday. So they're excited to be able to see them. Yeah fingers crossed we we've got so much stuff we're a hockey family and 4 H and everything. So we'll see we'll see what happens but that's the plan. So they're more excited to see their older boy than they are to go oh and and see the baby and everything like that. So I mean my daughter my daughter is all about babies. So yeah she wants to see a baby more of a because I love babies right because she's attached to her right exactly how cute we'll be right back but first I want to take a quick moment to talk about something close to my heart helping families grow through surrogacy.

SPEAKER_01

If you've ever thought about becoming a surrogate or if you're an intended parent ready to start your journey, Paying It Forward Surrogacy is here to guide you every step of the way. At Paying It Forward Surrogacy you're not just a number you're supported celebrated and connected with real people who've walked this path before. Whether you're just starting to explore or ready to take the next step they'll make sure you feel informed empowered and cared for from day one. Visit paying itforward surrogacy dot com to learn more. That's paying itforward surrogacy dot com because every journey to parenthood deserves heart honesty and the right support. Now let's get back to the episode okay so um oh and I guess I'll just jump in my now 10 year old could care less. He's like okay cool whatever like I still get pictures from and I get updates from my second couple who live in Australia and she's so tall and so beautiful and I'm like how is this possible? And I like showed my son the other day and she's like he was like okay I was like okay he's like I want to go play video games now I'm like all right cool so glad that we said that's on you yeah so funny but that's fine um but he was also extremely young when I did this so I'm not I'm not shocked. Okay so when when birth time is here and baby is now born were there emotions that flooded any of you that were like oh no like now baby's leaving like like was I'm pretty sure I under I know your answers but again these are just all things that people like to say to us.

SPEAKER_03

I was so tired oh yeah so tired I remember that yeah that was one of my hardest pregnant deliveries not pregnancies but deliveries um epidural came out with uh eight centimeters almost nine so yeah that that was rough um so I was very I remember being so tired and he was like do you want to hold him and I was like no I was like we'll wait till the morning where I'm more alive sure I was I was just mentally exhausted and um but I wasn't like sad like I knew that I had I still had some time like for like all of us like to like bond and hang out and stuff but I knew it was gonna end like I had already mentally prepared but I wasn't it wasn't sad because I knew this was the reason why I signed up it wasn't you know oh I'm gonna take the baby it was never for that I knew what I signed up for and this end goal this was the end of it like you know this was the end of a chapter and you know I did what I needed to do.

Community Support And Hard Moments

SPEAKER_02

Yeah yeah you should I'd agree I mean I think I had the only real feelings of like sadness that I had was for the birth experience I wanted and so I grieved that a little bit more than anything else I think um but like once she was born I was like crying happy tears like I was happy I was excited that they got their baby um and everything and like like I had her in the evening like late in the evening and I ended up with the C-section and so like we didn't I didn't see her till the next morning because I didn't like they didn't hold her up above anything. I didn't get to see her they sent me pictures later that night so like that's how I but I didn't get to physically see her until the next morning. And so but even then I'm like get me food like that was the first thing I thought about when I got to I didn't think about oh I need to see what she looks like because I knew and because of the relationship I had with my intended parents too and I feel like that plays a big factor huge factor. How you feel once baby is born. But I knew I'm like I'll see her in the morning they were literally in the next room like our rooms were next to each other. I could walk out and go in there if I wanted to so like that part I was never sad about. It was get food in my mouth because I haven't eaten since yesterday and just happiness because they got their baby and also missing my children. I'm like all right how fast can I get out of here 100% that was those are the biggest feelings I feel like after birth that I felt never once did I feel any kind of sadness about you know oh she's leaving it was always happiness about her going to her parents happiness about being not being pregnant anymore although that was a little sad for me but only because I love being pregnant so much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then like the sadness of the birth experience I wanted it was never about baby ever was it sadness for for that nope always always sadness about the journey being over that that that that that wow this was such a big part of the sweet type of thing yes and then depending on the relationship you have with the IPs is it going to continue on and and the first for one for me that we've already heard about that just didn't go well. So I didn't have that so I knew it was end it was 100% end I was never gonna hear from them again. And that's the whole reason I did it the second time y'all know that too and that went much better. But it was and in that one because that was multiples right that that biggest one was just get them here healthy. And when I heard cry one cry two cry three the biggest sigh of just relief and I'm like okay anything else can happen and it'll be okay. It'll be okay because they're earth side everything's great. But it's more like that than it the the relief that it's a good positive outcome. You met your end goal but never for me never the attachment ever it was like I can get back to life now. How quickly can I lose this weight? Like come on right let's do it like how quickly can I sign up again?

Final Reflections & Listener Invite

SPEAKER_01

Come on yeah yeah for me yeah for me too I remember my I was I remember my first delivery so my first well not my first delivery but my first surrogate delivery and um me the dads and my mom were in there and like we we were getting near the end and like the dads were in there the whole time we were having a great time and I will never forget this my mom comes up to me because I was a one and done girl. I was like no this is it she's like you're you're gonna do this again. Watch in about 30 minutes once this baby's here you're gonna turn to me and tell me you want to do it again. I was like you're out of your mind woman I'm good and then like the next day like my journey was just so beautiful and I'm very grateful that my first journey was so beautiful and that my IPs were like the IPs that they were and I was like okay Ellen you were right I guess I'm gonna do it again and you know a little louder let's hear that. But it was it it was that instant because my mom kept I mean and I'm very grateful that I had my mom because one the whole family was like oh not bothered at all by it because she had already like done it been like hey breaking the news like a deck decades ago. And then two she was like hey so like the best part of this is once that baby's born watch and then she was like watch your IPs and I did and I was like oh crap yep damn hooked this is this is why she died twice. But like she went and died on the table twice during you know all of this and like I understand the pull and I understand the love and the and the and the just the heart that all of it is and the whole reason to it. So I was like okay I did not I was like baby cried cool baby's here um let's keep watching these IPs who immediately called their nanny I thought that was so funny but like oh my god we were there like 10 minutes after the baby was born but that's fine but it was still just it's just such a sweet moment and that's that's the hook and as some people want to label it or addiction of surrogacy or whatever. It's not that there's an addiction there's just this there's just such a high it is such a high it's like a euphoria it's like what in the world yeah yeah if I could bottle that up and just like help I don't know smell it every day take a sip of it every day whatever it is like that I remember surrogacy sitting there and I was like crying like I know I was so tired but I was crying because I was like I actually did this like and I always I thought it's like you know I wasn't gonna go through with it and I was like I actually did this yeah I was bawling my eyes out by myself and I remember the nurse coming in she's like are you okay and I was like yeah and they were like okay like you know we just want to make sure because obviously they knew but I was like it was just like a shocker to me but then I was like there was a something there was something missing and it wasn't like oh you know I missed the baby and but I knew after a little bit afterwards I was like I want to do this again there was no doubt I wanted to do it again. It's just overwhelming I didn't know what it was until like about you know the process your hormones weren't raging exactly and I think it was like after he left that's whenever I was like I need to do this again yeah yeah it's yeah I I mean after birth in general even if it's your own your your emotions are all over the place because like it's a wild release of hormones and so to then add on top of that like that great feeling of being like we did it like you're here like you can go to your parents now like this was the whole thing it's it's emotional but it's not an attachment emotional it's just an emotional overwhelming feeling of having a job well done job well done yeah yeah that's that's the job well done job well done indeed which is why the majority of us go on to continue again I say it all the time if I could still be doing it I'd be doing it say it all the time uh let's see so what helped you maintain healthy emotional boundaries during your journey I think the IPs have a lot to do with that on who you're connected with.

SPEAKER_03

I think that's a whole thing really do yeah we mean with me and my IP we didn't really start talking until transfer until he knew a hundred percent I know a lot of IPs start talking like once legal is done or even before but my we didn't start talking until after like we knew the heartbeat was there and stuff. So that was like the first like healthy boundary like there and then even then after like he knew that you know I had my own family I had my own kids working all that you know I was I was still busy on but I also knew that I needed to make sure like I was keeping in touch with him and it was difficult sometimes because of the the time difference. Right um yeah but I mean we never really had to like there was no miscommunication. There was no we just already and knew like it was we already it was like basic respect like okay like she has a family she'll go back to me when she can and I was always when there was appointments I was sending pictures I was sending videos um I would you know I would FaceTime them um and you know I so I did that but it was there was nothing that we had to like reassure each other like at the beginning when we had our match call we were very open I think that's what more of it was like oh we wanted a close relationship you know we wanted we wanted to be close with the you know with the baby after the baby's here like oh who wants to be in the delivery room so I told him I would like him and then of course like my partner in there um but because of COVID you know luckily there was only able to have two of them around that time but we never really had issues with like the boundaries like we already knew it was like healthy boundaries already yeah the transparency in the beginning and kind of laying it all out there on the table I think we'll say surrogacy now like in the last let's just say 10 years maybe eight years they really focus on that that that that's one of the better outcomes of that I've seen one of the positive improvements that they really try to match you well so that you already have that common thread and that you can respect one another.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah but a couple decades ago it was whoever was on next on the list that's who you got and that's how they did it. They didn't do any of this I think you would work with this one and you would work with this one now. So that's why so many of them went so awry way back when it's the relationships weren't there. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02

IPs it's huge yeah it really is it's about the IPs and it's about that transparency that you have at the beginning and setting those expectations because I know for us that was a big thing um was we talked about it in our match call and then again I mean we talked from the time we said yes to each other till I mean we still talk. So like we we built that trust and everything and we went through stuff with our first transfer and things like that that really built that trust there too. And so I feel like just that transparency and the trust is kind of where the boundaries are set. So we trust I trust them to hold those boundaries that I set and then they trust me to you know take care of baby and and respect their boundaries as well um which you know I don't feel like for us personally we had a ton of boundaries um just because of the relationship we had but I really do think like you said Ellen was it's all about the indented parents that you have um and how the relationship is with them. So if you're in it for more of a transactional you know journey then yes you have to hold those boundaries and you have to set them right away. But if you're in it for more of a long-term talk and continue that um there are boundaries definitely because there's boundaries in any relationship that you have um but there's more fluidity to the boundaries I feel like when you have a really good relationship with your intended parents.

SPEAKER_01

Yes I agree entirely and speaking from experience I mean the match is a break or break uh is is like a make it or break it type thing and sometimes unfortunately yeah you don't know that until we're far enough along for things not to go backwards.

SPEAKER_00

Too far so I mean but the mutual respect wasn't there to begin with if you're honest with yourself. I'm not saying your situation but I'm just saying yeah no I know those situations the mutual respect wasn't there to begin with and that's and it's and it's hard sometimes to to to know if it's genuinely there or not because again I thought it was there 100% for anybody.

SPEAKER_01

But like you know you the only thing that you can do is be 100% transparent yourself and set your boundaries and set you know your expectations and and lay it all out on the table. And you know if they agree to it that's why you know with my fourth journey I mean I put sh my I am was the most perfect human being in the whole entire world the sweetest person I've ever met. And but I still put what some people might call like crazy things in my contract because I was like well these weren't in there last time and we had problems.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah so it's always your experience so you want to make sure that doesn't happen right with and the next one if you decide to do another one.

SPEAKER_01

So the you know everyone's feeling should be valid and if you guys don't can't you know don't see eye to eye then maybe that's a deeper conversation that should be had that's not saying that like you should like go different ways maybe if it's like a miscommunication problem maybe like break it down. This is why I feel this way you know the controversial thing that you know people always like to give us how for is like why do you want an hour? Okay well as soon as I explained that to my I am she was like oh 100% go ahead like not a big deal and because I just brought that up I'm just gonna throw this out there real quick. Um mom correct me if I'm wrong but the reason we have me and my mom asked for time alone with the baby and when I say alone I just mean that we don't have other people watching us like a hawk. Now granted my first journey I got so I was along I got along so great with my IPs that they were in the room the whole time. And my second journey they were like we're gonna go put the car seat in while you guys are doing this. And I'm like okay great. So like you know things worked out and nobody was offended by it. But um the reason I asked for that time was the advice of my mom. And I'm so glad that I did because it was a sense of closure for me and for my son. It had nothing to do with attachment. It had nothing to do with oh my gosh I love this baby. It wasn't like that. It was like this journey's over especially since you guys live on the opposite side of the world I will probably never see you again or at least until they're like in their adulthood like it has nothing to do with attachment and I think that's where a lot of people get rubbed the wrong way with this topic is like why do you need alone time? It's like yeah because I just want closure and I don't want to feel like somebody is like watching my every move or my child's every move like I'm not gonna have my three year old hold a baby and then drop the baby like right come on.

SPEAKER_03

No yeah and of course like they should know because you have kids already when you go into this right but you know it's funny that you say that because that wasn't in my contract because that you know it was a furt you know first time but yeah you know we had such a good like relationship with such a good mutual relationship before during and after now that he he I think he was like I want to say he was right next door to me and you know he knew that the kids were gonna come they were going to come see me because they didn't you know that I think that was like in the summer so they were home and they wanted to see him you know like it was like kind of like a closure thing as well and he dropped off the baby and like to the room he went back to the room and I was like go ahead go rest if you want you can stay here like I you know I was very open about that like I didn't mind because he was it wasn't like you know he was you know he was hovering or anything right but he was like no he was like I'll drop off the baby that way you guys can spend time with him and I'll be back in about an hour and a half or so but that's a relationship you guys had it wasn't in the contract that's the relationship no it wasn't it wasn't in the contract he that was beautiful right yeah he did it you know super sweet because he knew yeah right third third journey it was in the contract and that went south for me um that journey and yeah luckily I had it in the contract because my kids were way older they needed to say goodbye I needed to say goodbye I knew I'd never see her again I would never receive a picture anything and I haven't to this day and it's fine but I needed that hour and so yes Kennedy that I I highly recommended her to put that in there um just because it was done for me my first journey and I kept it in every single one it was that important to me.

SPEAKER_00

The second one I didn't even need it I had access to the NICU for crying out loud like I had bracelets with babies names on them. I could go in anytime I wanted but that's the relationship I I I created with that family.

SPEAKER_01

So it it has a lot yeah I'm gonna go back to it toward the relationship but to protect yourself if you really feel that you you and your family need that closure that is the reason that I'm so adamant about that one little tower changes a lot of um okay well what advice would you give a first time surrogate who is possibly worried about attachment talk to other surrogates yeah I agreed it really is it's important to talk to other people who have done it because you don't understand unless you've gone through it.

SPEAKER_03

Right to have a community with every oh you know other surrogates I think that's where I messed up the first time like I'm not saying like my my journey wasn't hard but I think if I if I would have had like a community at the time during my journey I think it would have I think I would have done a couple of things differently but I mean it was nothing like terrible just like you know minor tweaks like yeah oh probably would have picked a better better hospital you know I would have asked the doctor a couple you know like it was just like little things because I didn't I didn't have I didn't have that at the time not until like you don't know what you don't know exactly yeah I didn't have it until my second journey yeah and that's where like my knowledge started coming in a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah totally fair I agree that community is just important because like you said you don't know what you don't know. Right. And yes there are some in a very small amount of surrogates who feel attached but like I said it's a pretty small amount almost everyone I've talked to personally if they're they're like well what do you do about this question about being attached and it's like I'm not and so like just having that community and having people you can turn to if you maybe feel like like even during a journey or especially before if you feel like oh attachment is like my biggest worry talk to other people who have done it. Because you're not gonna know and even then sometimes you don't know until you go through it.

SPEAKER_01

Like right agreed and I also do think that if you are in my experience the the the things that I've heard through the grapevine in the community right is that if you are if you do feel worried about attachment oftentimes that's figured out in your psych evaluation and a lot of the times it's not that you're disqualified they just end up saying like oh you know if if you're if you're feeling this way maybe maybe take some time like maybe maybe figure this out go like like you said Brittany go talk around like like you said shelby like go talk around go go go go find the community ask your questions but maybe right now in this moment isn't the perfect moment to move forward in this and so that's that's just what I've heard from psychologists in the in the field.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah it's you know and to have this community you guys are I know there's some areas out there where people are not the kindest in some of these communities and I know everybody who kind of steers away from those and thank goodness. And you all I think it's phenomenal that you have each other to come together to support you. If somebody's going through like God forbid a miscarriage like I saw how that community rallied around when we had that there were like two or three like back to back. Yeah and to just because you feel all alone you just did to and just to lift each other up in the good and the bad this was not around this type of community and social media was not around 20 25 years ago just wasn't so that's another plus I give to sir um the surrogate whole surrogate community is how you guys support each other. That's really it it's support.

SPEAKER_03

I always say that the surrogate community is small but big and they're mighty yeah like boys it might be a small community but like everyone is so like most of the time everyone you know there's they're supportive you know they have each other's back you know they you know they will do whatever it takes to be there even if they're not physically there. Yeah that's what I always say all the time.

SPEAKER_01

99% of the community is so positive. It's like and I've heard I heard this saying um on the intended parent side before and I and I've loved it ever since it's it was you know you never want to be a part of this community but it's the best community to be a part of and 100% like never in my life would I have imagined that I would get lifelong friends from circusy like especially people like some I'm pretty sure a lot of these people you haven't met either haven't met them in person. Never cross path it's so great. Like I mean you ladies live in a completely different state I'm lucky to have met a couple a couple friends that I met through the community who live in other states like but it's it's just it's and who live in this state but it's just you know it's just it's a great community and and it's definitely supportive and it's definitely something that you want to get behind you at any point in any journey because yeah I mean you can you can lean on support we all need it yeah no matter if you're retired or like retired surrogate or not we all need that support. Exactly definitely exactly oh my gosh well thank you so much ladies this was such a fun Friday facts loved it I'm excited super fun yes good luck on both your journeys yeah thank you so exciting yeah not at all jealous well you gotta give birth to your own first before you can start oh yeah that's yes that is true we'll we'll see how that goes well I'm excited for you oh thank you yes very excited myself different I haven't been pregnant for myself in like a decade I've had babies from other people for like a decade so it's it's really weird yeah it's super weird the oldest and the youngest grandchild and cousin in the family oldest wow look at you exciting and she's gonna be spoiled by her whole aunties and uncles it'll be lovely but thank you ladies this was so fun I hope to have you guys back sometime this year for another Friday Fax. Yeah thanks for joining take care thanks enjoy your night that was fun yeah it was that's interesting perspectives yeah yeah we haven't done a Friday fax in like a hot minute I feel I get I guess not uh yeah yeah yeah fun fun fun fun but yeah okay well uh thank you Shelby and Brittany because this was I think this is an important topic to talk about because I mean so many times people are like the attachment and it's like no you don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00

And in the community like and surrogate's like no that there really is no attachment like that way that we're talking about right but it's the outside community it's those who are looking in and maybe not understanding fully and and that's where the education needs to happen and and happy to do it happy happy to explain it to them because sometimes people just don't know like you said what they don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah and what I found is that you know because I I'll just never forget this one family that I was talking to on on my son's football team and like for the life of me I could not get through to them and I was like I'm done talking to you then like stop like I'm not attached. I'm sorry that you might feel that way but like our conversation is over now. Like and that's okay if you want to view it like that go go right ahead but I'm I'm gonna go over to my corner over here and my little life but yeah all we can do is just help educate. So we'll see. If anybody has any questions or stories they would like to share please feel free to reach out to us on Instagram at stop periodsit period surrogate or at our email at stop periodsitperiod surrogate at gmail.com and this has been another episode of Stop Sit the surrogate with Kennedy and Ellen Bye everyone before we wrap up we want to give a huge thank you to our sponsors the Northwest surrogacy center the New York surrogacy center paying it forward surrogacy their continued support helps us share real stories that educate our community and connect families through the incredible journey of surrogacy thanks so much for tuning in to Stops at Surrogate where every story matters and every journey is worth sharing.

SPEAKER_00

We'll see you next time if you enjoyed this podcast be sure to give us a like and subscribe also check out the link to our YouTube channel in the description and be sure to also check out our children's book My Mom has a superpower sold on Amazon and Etsy