Stop. Sit. Surrogate.

Surrogacy Boundaries

• Kenedi & Ellen Smith • Season 6 • Episode 14

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Sara’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/surrornsara?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ== 

 Sophia’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sophiaawohl?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ== 


A surrogacy journey can look perfect on paper and still fall apart in real life if nobody talks about boundaries. We’re Kenedi and Ellen, and we’re joined by repeat guests Sophia (experienced surrogate and agency owner) and Sara (currently on her second journey) to get brutally practical about what boundaries actually mean when you’re living it: match calls with strangers, vulnerable medical appointments, emotional setbacks like failed transfers, and the high-stakes intensity of delivery day.

We compare how “old school” surrogacy often treated carriers like a vessel with little control, then move into what healthy boundaries look like now, especially in the hospital. Sara shares what it means to be the patient first, how labor and delivery teams protect the birthing space, and why simple consent practices like introductions and limiting observers matter. We also talk about ongoing communication, how to leave room for expectations to change, and how mutual respect makes boundaries easier because you aren’t constantly policing basic decency.

Then we get into the modern headache nobody can ignore: social media. Do you follow each other, post bump updates, share ultrasounds, or keep everything offline? We cover oversharing risks, accidental privacy leaks (names, DOB, clinic info), and how to ask for consent without making it awkward. Finally, we address agency boundaries, HIPAA and medical record access, and the questions every surrogate should ask before signing anything, including how much an agency is involved and who they’re really representing.

If you found this helpful, subscribe, share it with someone considering surrogacy, and leave a review so more intended parents and surrogates can find these real-world tips.

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Welcome And Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_02

Welcome. We are the mother-daughter podcast about all things surrogacy. Together, we have brought eight beautiful babies into this world. And we would like to share through education and knowledge about surrogacy with those who want to educate themselves on the topic. This is Top Fit Surrogate. This episode is sponsored by U.S. Surrogacy LLC. If you've ever dreamed of helping grow a family or are hoping to grow your own, U.S. Surrogacy LLC is here to guide you every step of the way. They are a dedicated surrogacy agency committed to supporting intended parents and surrogates through a compassionate, ethical, and well-supported journey. US Surrogacy LLC works with amazing women who want to make a life-changing difference by becoming a surrogate while also helping intended parents experience the incredible gift of parenthood. Their team focuses on transparency, strong communication, and personalized support so that everyone involved feels confident, cared for, and informed throughout the entire process. If you've ever considered becoming a surrogate or if you're an intended parent exploring your options, US Surrogacy LLC is ready to help you take that next step. To learn more about their programs and how you can get started, visit us-surrogacy.com. That's us-surrogacy.com. And now let's get into today's episode.

Why Boundaries Make Or Break Journeys

SPEAKER_02

Hi everybody. Welcome back to Stops at Surrogate with Kennedy and Ellen. Everybody. Friday Facts edition. So today we're going to talk about boundaries. I guess good and bad. I mean, all that's in my head is should have done that one. Good ones. We have two lovely repeat guests with us. So I'm going to let you guys introduce yourselves. Sophia, you are first on my screen. So do you want to introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_00

Sure, yeah. My name is Sophia. I am an experienced surrogate. Um, and I had a beautiful, wonderful journey. And um I also own an agency now. So I support other surrogates on their journeys. And I've seen everything from the absolute best to the absolute worst that could happen. And um that's you know, my goal in the industry and the surrogacy space is to help bring education and give everybody a place to speak and be heard.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Perfect. Well, welcome. Very excited.

SPEAKER_01

And then Sarah. Hi, um, my name is Sarah. I am on my second journey. I am 19 and a half weeks. Um what else to say?

SPEAKER_02

No, you're good. Sarah, I've been wondering this because that means you're six weeks behind me. So are you due in September? Yeah, yeah, 27th. Okay.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, the end. The end of September. Oh, goodness. Okay. All that summer pregnancy. Love it. I'm right there with you. Um,

Early Surrogacy With No Voice

SPEAKER_02

so boundaries. Goodness me. Um I guess we could start off. Well, okay, I'm gonna ask you a question first, mom, because you did this pioneering ages. Long time ago. I know, but like, were boundaries like were there like guidelines for you guys back then? Like social media really didn't play like a big part back then. So I feel like boundaries were kind of it's what the intended parents wanted.

SPEAKER_03

You really you didn't have a say. You just yeah, no, no say at all. Um, you didn't have a say in who you get matched with, you none of that. It it was whoever was next on the list, the next available surrogate got them. It was completely backwards, completely different. And the boundaries, I had boundary issues with all of them. Even the triplets, I had boundary issues.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's an interesting one. But like back then, like you guys didn't talk, like your agency wasn't like, oh, this is appropriate and this isn't appropriate. No, okay.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, carrying a baby, you were a vessel. That's how we were treated. I'm being honest. I don't care what the agencies say that might watch this or hear this, that were uh Oh, we're coming at you, y'all. Yeah, no, and you were horrible and you made us all feel that way. And some surrogates who were I I can think of two in in particular who were just blazing pioneers in this, didn't stand for it and made their own way. And they had founding fathers, yeah. They had they did, but their IPs were great too. So okay, there you go. It was it was a mutual, they just got lucky.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

When the list came up and went boom, boom, you're with you, and boom, there you go. But no, no, no, no boundaries. It's let the IPs lead, let have whatever they're comfortable with.

SPEAKER_02

And if you had an issue and you went to your agency, no, they so you are you talking about like communication, like that was like all of it, whatever boundary they were, how much how you know, if they got to come to appointments, it was like their fully their choice, like in the birthing room.

SPEAKER_03

They got to come to do whatever they wanted. Yes, yes, yeah, regardless.

SPEAKER_00

My question is the what made you do it multiple times when that was the the case. Like what I needed to read.

SPEAKER_03

I needed to redeem the previous one. I did, and I did the triplet one redeemed the previous one. Oh the third one, I I paid for nursing school. That's the reason I did that one. Didn't matter to me how that journey went, to be honest with you. Didn't matter.

SPEAKER_02

But you said, I'm gonna pull you back, but you said that even the triplets, you had boundary issues.

SPEAKER_03

Um, with one of the intended parents, he was he just got got very touchy feely, and I was with pregnant with triplets, and so I'm looking at boundaries in different ways. I'm looking at oh well, no, there's boundaries in a billion ways. Okay, so he would just touch and okay and and not ask, and I just felt invaded, and uh, I was getting touched enough by doctors and all the students that were watching because it was a triplet pregnancy. So I got you, but we squashed, I had a very good relationship with them because I picked them, I picked them. So that one was different, that one was a little different, but there were still boundary issues, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting. Well, you were like an obstetric celebrity at that point carrying triple A bigger baby, like oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03

Crazy, and it was a teaching hospital, so they had inter uh not inter uh up and coming doctors, yeah, like second year, third years coming in all the time, and so here comes the triplet one. Let's do a let's everybody come in and watch the ultrasound. Oh dear god, yeah, it was a lot.

SPEAKER_00

So boundaries there didn't work a Britney and shave your head, like that's crazy, crazy invasiveness that I've never experienced. You were like a trailblazer, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. So I think there were boundary issues everywhere doctor's office, agency, couple. It just it was just so new for everybody. Nobody really knew what was right and what was wrong. So you kind of figured it out. And now look at it. Like like surrogates are supported 100%.

SPEAKER_00

I not I mean, I shouldn't say 100.

SPEAKER_03

Shouldn't say 100, sorry, don't say that.

SPEAKER_00

I think I think society in general has come a long way in what is deemed as socially acceptable, especially when it comes to like reproductive health. Yeah, big time. That is a huge plus because even outside of agency support, you know, women are a lot more supported by society. They are um whereas people used to pry a lot into women's reproductive health.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01

But I'd love to speak you speak of the boundary in the medical space, which you know, your intended parents don't necessarily have anything to do with being a labor and delivery nurse. I see that invasion all the time, and I call it out all the time. Like when I go to a doctor's office and someone walks into the room and doesn't introduce who they are, and they're clearly an observer. Yeah, I like to make them feel uncomfortable. Hi, who are you? Love it. Like, this is my private exam room space. Who are you and what are you doing here? And so, you know, I can only imagine if you have three babies in there, two, two, three babies in there, like you're everyone.

SPEAKER_00

You're outnumbered, first of all, like by the babies.

SPEAKER_01

So everybody's more concerned about them than you, and they feel entitled to be a part of this experience, but it's still a birth, and you are still the person giving birth in an extremely vulnerable situation. Nobody has business to be there who doesn't at the very least introduce themselves. Agreed. Good for you.

SPEAKER_03

Totally fair.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, love it.

SPEAKER_03

Interesting. Do you see it in the uh have you been labor delivery for a surrogate? Like, were you a nurse for uh okay? So were there boundary yesterday? Oh my god, go fun. No way.

SPEAKER_01

So are there boundary issues there? Do you ever see them there? Um yesterday actually was a really beautiful dynamic between the intended parents and the surrogate, was like all the good, healthy vibes. But yes, I have seen that um before. Usually usually by that that time um there's a delivery plan. That plan is communicated to us by the surrogate. Whether, you know, does she want the parents there? Does she not want them there? And you know, we try to protect that space for her. Okay, that's what I was gonna ask. Good. Yeah, yeah. And so ultimately she's my patient. So that's my priority is right getting that space for her. Interesting. Very nice.

SPEAKER_00

Labor and delivery delivery nurses are literally goddesses. Like they do such a huge job in protecting the birthing space for women and making sure that they are advocated for and safe. And I mean, really, you guys are are more doctors than doctors in many delivery situations. Um, so yeah, like therapists, doctors, doas, you guys do it all. They do.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely an honor, and it's really cool to be a part of those surrogate situations to connect that way and kind of feel out what are those boundaries, how is this relationship going? You know, do I need to have a private word with the surrogate, or is this just all, you know, the rainbows and butterflies that we want it to be? And sometimes it is, and it's really beautiful, and then other times there are some kind of awkward situations, and I don't know the backstory. I'm just here to protect the space.

SPEAKER_03

And then do you enforce that protecting of the space? I would assume you do. Like if she says, Yeah, literally, no, I I can't do this, or this is what it is, and they think it's gonna be different. You you have to be that bad cop.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, and I would ever any time, I mean, we see it with people who aren't gestational carriers too, you know, somebody who some family member who feels like they need to be in the birthing room that you know the patient doesn't desire to be there, and you know, sometimes it's even the father of the baby who is acting awry. I mean, it's a genome, yeah. It can be yeah, it could be different scenarios for sure. You know what? You don't have a reason to be here. I need I need her, and if she doesn't want you here, right.

SPEAKER_02

She's queen of the room. Um, okay, so

Protecting Privacy In The Exam Room

SPEAKER_02

then kind of like moving to like the 21st century, then. Um well, I guess you had a 21st century. Well, whatever. It was sad. But no, so uh Sophia and Sarah, for your guys' boundaries, like did you feel that you had guidance in maybe forming them, or did you kind of like learn along the way? There she is. She's back.

SPEAKER_00

She's back. That was weird. Somehow my phone hotspot is um better connection than the Wi-Fi network. So here we are. Oh no, you're good. Funny.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Um I feel like it was a little bit of both and continues in my second journey to be a little bit of both. There's always that, like, okay, if I ever do another journey, like these are the things I want to talk about up front. Um, because maybe this situation was a lot different than this situation. Like my the personality types of my intended parents are completely different. They're both heterosexual couples and just totally different types of people. Um so that is something I think that does come with time. And Sophia, you said something before we started that I thought was really good about um like leaving space for things to change. And I think that's a really healthy thing that should come up in every matching call is you know, these are my expectations now. This is what I think I would like. Like, you know, you might say, um, I'm very inclusive. I love to have like I want my intended parents to be a part of any and every aspect of the journey that they want to be. Um, you want to phone in for the appointments. I love it if you're in the area. Mine live on the other side of the country, but if they're in the area, you want to come, like, come, let's do this. But then I'm like, well, you know, what if that changes throughout the journey? And I've kind of left this blanket statement up front because of the person that I am, which I'm not generally mean, I you know, genuinely mean that. Yeah, it doesn't really, when when you are too inclusive up front the way that I can be, it does uh open the door for possibilities that if things change or you are uncomfortable, now I'm in an awkward spot to say, oh hey, actually, like I don't want you to attend that, you know, so it can make create, you know, create some awkwardness there. So I think having that sort of ongoing check-in with your intended parents can be really healthy and helpful part of communication of like, yeah, this is still cool for me, or yes, this is good. And it all just goes back to that ongoing communication, which really varies per you know, relationship, right? Yeah, it does. You don't want to get yourself into a spot where the expectation now is that they get to call into every single appointment. And if you're like, you know, you don't want to be dreading your appointments because you're like, okay, here they come again, you know. Right. So it's just that ongoing, and it and it can be kind of awkward because like you said, Ellen, like it's their baby, so there's like that sense of that there. I think having uh really up, it's upfront communication about how things can change, yes, right, and also um ongoing communication, yeah, check-ins with each other.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, all parties need to be open for that, and flexibility in things because like things can change on a time, yes. Yeah, you just don't know. You don't you don't know what you don't know, and every journey is different, so it's always like a like a little mystery box. So you just kind of gotta roll with the flow.

SPEAKER_01

Like both I can imagine in the beginning of of that you know rough journey that you had, where it might have been like, yeah, that's cool, join me, and then things get awkward, and you're like, please don't look at me, right? Things change, and so it's like and and people change, and we are meeting each other as strangers, and I mean, we're using our best judgment up front that we think that we're matching with people that are gonna treat us right, but you just never know. Exactly. Strangers, exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, and then Sophia, do you feel like I think that a huge oh go ahead. Oh no, you're okay. It's okay, you go, you go.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think a huge part of understanding whether you'll be compatible matching with somebody is personality type. Did you guys have the same kind of expectations going into even the initial match call? And um, did you feel the vibes of the person out? Were you able to? Did you guys match your vibes kind of on that initial call? And um that gives you a better idea of when things do get rough, if you guys will be able to communicate through things and be open with each other and be respectful of one another. Um, there's people that go into those match calls that are super nervous, don't ask a lot of questions, but then if it's the same on the other side, you know, you know to an extent that your personalities will be compatible. And then others that are super talkative, super upfront, and um kind of match those vibes from the beginning. So when things come up, they know that they'll know how to talk to each other through it and not um not have things go awry in communication. Um yeah, because you you really you don't know what to expect going into it, um, especially for a first-time surrogate. And it's you know, Ellen had mentioned how subsequent journeys felt like ways to redeem previous journeys, and unfortunately, not every surrogate qualifies for second or third or fourth journeys. And so that's why it's important, you know, for the agency and for the surrogate herself to advocate to be able to ensure that her first journey is her dream journey, her first journey is with an excellent match and that um she'll be safe and protected and get that fulfilling experience that she wants going into it because you know there's never a guarantee of being able to redeem yourself. And um yeah, in worst case scenario situations, it can be traumatic if um if things don't go as planned and there's no way to repeat the situation to kind of do it better next time. So you've got to um be

Setting Expectations With Ongoing Check-Ins

SPEAKER_00

able to prepare emotionally and get the support that you need to navigate whatever could happen throughout the process.

SPEAKER_03

I also think agencies and all the support of the surrogate is very important in the boundaries as well because everybody, let's just go back to the match call and everybody's yep, the vibes are great, everybody's happy, everybody's being talkative, and yeah, we got this, everybody wants to match. And then you start to get into it, and then you maybe have a failed transfer and people's feelings are hurt and they they they feel defeated. And how to play and walk through that is gonna be completely different than your match meeting. The the hard stuff obviously the easy stuff is everybody's joyful. Yay, we're pregnant. Oh, this is great. Okay, then what if something happens? So I really think agencies play a huge role in those boundaries, or they should, as far as I wish they would have where when I was doing it. Um to just the guidance, just if there's a Rocky patch, and believe me, I had Rocky Patches, I got no help, none, none. And it just made it such a sour taste in your mouth, and you just wanted to be done. You're like, I cannot wait until how many weeks? How many are we? Let's just get this over with. And it was sad. It was, and I hope that's not how it's going now. But and the people we talk to, I don't think it is, but I'm sure, like Kennedy, you only had one a couple years ago, five years ago, and it was bad. So they are there, they happen. I just think they need you know, I don't want to say it's just agencies, but the accountability is there, and it you can't just match them, send them off, and go, okay, we're done. It they gotta help.

SPEAKER_01

They gotta help. That has been one um really good thing in this journey that I have now, even though my relationship with my intended parents is very healthy, good, um, is the agency that I'm with has psychological sessions that are with an LMFT. So they're you're able to use them as a support um outside of the agency, which I mean, I like to talk to my journey coordinator too, but sometimes when you're just needing to bounce an idea off of somebody who deals with uh every day of their life, having having difficult conversations, yep, um, it can be a really uh great resource for the surrogate. And the beautiful thing is it's actually also available to the intended parents.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. So you have access to that? Like if you just have a and you do it like Zoom or you do it on a phone call or okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's really nice. So it it has been good. And I mean you can use them for other things too, but um, you know, I've I use them a couple times just to kind of check in. Hey, what do you what do you think about this? Or just to help process um a feeling that you might have about something that is difficult so that you're channeling it in the right space. Yeah. And it's a place to kind of check yourself and get feedback from a professional about how to move forward and really preserve the relationship. That's great without feeling bias from an agency, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Or without having to share that in a big support group call with everyone with everyone, and they know who you are. They are doing so. So one-on-one like that, that's huge. I love that. Yeah, that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00

Cool. We're agencies. You know, a surrogate used to be a very, very rare person. You know, most people are never gonna meet a surrogate in their life, but nowadays there's more and more women learning about surrogacy and having those big like red flag questions that would make them never pursue it answered. So um, because of that, you know, we've got a huge community of surrogate. That get to meet each other in person and online, and they have that support system as well. So when it comes to things that only a surrogate would understand, you know, the intended parents, even if they're super supportive, they're not even gonna understand many of the things that a surrogate goes through, the social dynamic that she navigates walking around in the world pregnant with somebody else's baby. And now we've got, you know, a much larger support system for each other to be able to um, you know, even when when comp little complications happen or big things happen, we always have somebody who can at least somewhat understand what we're going through when you know previously that was not the case.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. But I also think that that grouping, depending on where you get that grouping, I know where you're going, L. Yep. Um could be a detriment.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, there are definitely safe spaces to ask questions, to lean on people, and then there are not so safe spaces, in my personal opinion. I but also many others' personal opinions.

SPEAKER_00

But like there needs to be a study on estradial tablets effects on gossip, because you know, when you get a bunch of women together that already have raging estrogen, and then you put them on extra estrogen tablets and then have them do something crazy like carry somebody else's baby, um, you know, there's there's some some big personalities that can come of that.

SPEAKER_03

And um yeah, but you know, any group of women, I think there's I think with um with that, with the groupings, I I'm not trying to shut them down or say anything negative about them because yes, they do play a role. But as far as the boundaries are concerned, I'm not sure I would if I were back in this space doing surrogacies again, take uh boundary limitations from one of those groups. I would much rather do one of the resources such as the psych or the LMFT or the uh social workers, those types of people to set my boundaries. Those spaces with the surrogates as being support groups, they're yes, they play a role. They do play a role, but as far as boundaries are concerned, I'm not sure I'd want them. I and it sounds so bad me saying it. I guess. No, that's not bad.

SPEAKER_00

I mean the the excellent thing nowadays, too, though, is that um, you know, I don't know how many specialty counselors there were that understood surrogacy back in the day either. And now we have more and more, and there's more resources available and more counselors that were previous surrogates, you know, because the community is growing. So whereas before you might go to a counselor and they might um assume that you're the biological mother of the baby, or um you know, they're gonna have the same big red flag questions that most strangers are gonna have as well. So, you know, the support is much more specialized nowadays to be able to really be there for a surrogate and understand what

Social Media Rules And Oversharing Risks

SPEAKER_00

special circumstance she goes through.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_02

Couldn't agree more. Yeah. No, but it's it's just interesting to hear no one's talked about social media in the sense of like that was a really big one in one of mine, which is where it ended. I ended a um uh a match after we were matched, and on Day of Legal, we ended it um for multiple of reasons. But one of them was the pure fact of like, was social media gonna be involved? Not the pe not now we could go two ways with this, right? Because a lot of surrogates nowadays want to like record and put everything on social media, and so that's that's been always a conversation in in my meetings, especially within the past however many years I was, you know, attempting to do this because of our platform and everything like that. And I'm like, well, I would like to share, you know, the ins and outs of it. Obviously, no names, no, you know, pictures of baby, like things like that, but and that's a boundary, right? That's a boundary. But at the same time, social media in the sense of like, do you do you friend each other? Is that too much? Do we stalk each other? Do we not stalk each other? Like, are we friends on Facebook, Snapchat, and Instagram? Like, so you know, it's just it's it becomes a lot because I actually had one of my well, the last woman that I that I had a baby for what, five years ago, they were friends with me on Instagram. And because of how toxic that relationship was, I immediately blocked them, and that became a whole thing. And it's like, well, that's my private life. Like, I'm carrying your baby and you're getting the updates that you need. I mean, that was just a shit show in itself, but yeah, so it's just but I do know that social media nowadays, compared to you, mom, is definitely another layer of like, what are the boundaries there? What can I post? What can I not post? What can I say? What can I not say? Like, there are so many more things that people have to be careful and kind of censor themselves on for for the best reasons possible, or or or whatever it may be, but that that is something that's definitely changed from from when you were started.

SPEAKER_03

Didn't have it. We didn't have it. Everything was done email or you called, didn't even have didn't even have texts. Seriously, guys, we didn't, right? And if we did, the phones were like huge. Yeah, it it was ridiculous. Yeah, huge. I know, I have one in my garage.

SPEAKER_01

When it can social oh bet. Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

You can I was gonna say, like, I think social media, um, you know, similar to any relationship nowadays, can be a tricky, tricky thing to navigate. A lot of surrogates and intended parents, um, you know, their boundary is absolutely no, we will not add each other on social media. We're gonna keep that side of our lives completely private. Um, for me, I don't share too much in social media anyways. So I was, you know, perfectly comfortable with it. We never added each other because um we kind of had that agreement in the first place that we're just not big social media people. So adding or not adding would not make a huge difference in our relationship. Um but yeah, it's tricky.

SPEAKER_01

Very yeah, and it can be something it's like you can't really go back on that, you know, otherwise unless you're in these these toxic relationships, like you said, where you're like, okay, I need I need to block you from this, um, which is very difficult when you have like a public profile to stop somebody from just making a random profile and you know, but I know you have separate ones too and all that, but um you know, once once you go there, you do need to be mindful of what you are sharing, knowing that these people are looking for any ounce of way to connect to the pregnancy. And so, like my Instagram is uh only for surrogacy. I don't have, I don't really post anything on there that's not related to my journey. And I I did that for many reasons. Um the first was I I mean, I only got Instagram for that specific reason uh to be able to share my journey because it gets really tiring answering the same question like a hundred thousand times. Like, how are you doing? How many weeks are you now? I'm like, don't follow my page. And then if there are little things, so it's you know, plus it's become a journal for me, but I need to be mindful that like it is a journal for me, but also like I can't overshare on there, especially with my intended parents being on there. I don't want to say anything that is um too much or is identifying right, of course, for that, you know, and it and it's cute because my intended parents in both um journeys, well, the moms, the dads in both journeys didn't have Instagram, but you know, they like every single one of your posts or they'll comment on everything. And I'm like, you're telling everybody who you are. I'm not saying anything. Right, right, right. You're making yourself known here, not me. All you gotta do is go to my comment section, you know, and and it's cute. And I I mean, I think if they didn't want anybody to know it was them, then they wouldn't, you know, do that. But you know, not not tagging somebody who doesn't want to be tagged or not sharing pictures if you were together that um had them in there or identified where you were, you know. So I if and when we have been together, like I double check, um, you know, do you are these things okay to share? And if we've gotten to a point with like the ultrasounds that, you know, in my first journey, my IPs um didn't error. I still asked every single time, even though I knew like for them that they were was like, yeah, go ahead and share it, share, share, share it. They were very um, they had been so many years into their journey, they were very open. Um, my intended parents this time are a little bit more reserved and would like me to not share ultrasound pictures. And so that was you know, without making an assumption that I could do that because my first set of intended parents were okay with that. You know, you have to ask those things and be really sensitive to their experience. And likewise, like, hey, the ultrasound pictures that I send you have my name and date of birth on it. So when you're going to send those to your family, be mindful of right. I think a lot of surrogates, I say that all the time, that like they won't ever share their name uh publicly. Um like my social media doesn't have my first and last name on it. It's both like names are um what do you call screen names, if you will. Okay. And but uh so when I go to post something, you know, if it is like that, like you gotta cut that off. Like, please don't share your pregnancy announcement with uh my name and date of birth on it. Right, right. But if you're not looking at those things super closely, it's it's honest mistakes that can happen that can feel really not good.

SPEAKER_03

And a boundary crossed, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Totally unintentionally, right, right. And sometimes you don't know until you've gotten there. Right. Because that's a that's an easy slip.

SPEAKER_02

Like, cause it you're just so excited to see the picture of the baby. Like when we uh it's just yeah, it's just so crazy. Because like it's just right at the top, and then it also says your hospital or your clinic name wherever you got it, and it's like that's too much information.

SPEAKER_01

So now I know where you live, and your name is right, Ada Perth. And so if you were trying to have any anonymous, it's gone.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. It's like that's out the door.

SPEAKER_01

Very careful, interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Goodness, yeah. So much. Yeah, I and see, like, and that's the like I I well for me it was interesting. So for my first two, they were international and they were both gay couples, mm males, and like they were just like, Yeah, do your thing, whatever. Like, you're the woman, you you you've done this, you're fine. And I was like, Oh, okay, cool. There wasn't a lot of talk on boundaries. Um, there wasn't really a lot of overstepping either. I mean, I think the only overwhelming part for both of them was like delivery day, because like, you know, they're they're from different countries, they want to get back home. They're like, yeah, like she is she here yet? Is she coming? Like, what's what's happening? And it's like, I can only go so fast. But you know, like other than that, like I I was very lucky in that sense, and you know, I I don't really know if we actually ever had any conversations about social media posting and things like that, kind of looking back at it, but I was very cautious to not like post faces and things because that's not you know, that's not for me to like be like, hey, these are my people. Like that's not for me. But then my third one, I really didn't

When Agencies Cross The Line

SPEAKER_02

post a lot because I was just in the thick of it, and there was a lot of boundaries crossed by the agency. I think that's another one that's not talked about a lot, is that the that agencies can cross boundaries. Not all of them, not all of them. Right. Um, but that agencies can definitely cross boundaries, and you know, when you have an agency crossing boundaries and then you have the other side, either your surrogate crossing boundaries or the IP is crossing boundaries. So now you got 2v1, and that's very, you know, ganging up on and bullying, and like then there's just like a whole trickle effect of things that I it's not talked about a lot. Um, and I know it happens. I know it happens a good handful of amount of times. Like people just are very traumatized from it and don't talk about it, and rightfully so. It took me a very long time to talk about it. It's a lot to process because you don't ever think you have to set boundaries with an agency or someone who's helping who's helping guide you through this journey. Like, I would never think I'd have to set a boundary with a lawyer. You're a lawyer, like you're just gonna do the law, right? Like, this is this is all you're here for. And then an agency, you're here to to make everything cohesive and be the bridge and like be, you know, not one-sided, just you're here to support. So I think that's another one that's a really hard one to wrap your head around, and like how do you even have a conversation with I couldn't even tell you still how to have a conversation with an agency about boundaries. It's more like when something happens, call them out. Like it's I feel like that's how it happens to go with an agency.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

A good agency should ask what role you want them to have in your journey. And a lot of surrogates sign onto that kind of blindly and not really knowing what they want from an agency, but that is a conversation to have from the very beginning before you choose an agency. Is what role will they play in your journey? What role are you comfortable with them playing? Um, are you comfortable with your case manager checking in after every appointment? Are you comfortable with your case manager attending some appointments with you? Because there are agencies that offer that. And some surrogates are totally that's what they want. They want a case manager who's going to be their best friend, their advocate throughout. And other surrogates don't want that much involvement. And, you know, regardless, it's all valid. But have you had that conversation with your agency? Is the question that you should ask yourself before you sign that paper, if sign that agency agreement, pursue a match through them because they do play a big role in your journey? And you have to understand how much they're going to be representing the intended parents' interests versus your interests. Do you guys each have kind of um separate representation within the agency? Um, are there separate people that you can talk to throughout your journey? Is there mediation services offered, or are they just kind of the people that match you together and then kind of tell you what to do throughout? Um, that's a huge thing, a huge thing. And lots of people have nightmare experiences because they choose um either just an agency that their friend went through or that they found um on social media or that they got advertised to. That's definitely a conversation to have. And a lot of people pursue independent journeys because they're scared of signing on to an agency and having some separate third party control them in that way. And that's sad because the agency should be there to support you, but definitely valid questions to have ahead of time and that you may not know to ask.

SPEAKER_01

So in my first journey, I actually ended up switching agencies. So I had I had um signed on to one particular agency that after you want to talk red flags, that's a whole other situation. Um leaving. And I remember um during one of one of the introductory calls, I had already signed paperwork. I was so excited to, you know, because your first journey would just hold. And um somewhere in something, maybe it was like a little slideshow or something I was going through. It's mentioned that like somebody from the agency would be flying out for the birth. And I was like, so I asked about that, and they were like excited to talk about how somebody would be there. And I was like, I don't really want that. Yeah, right. Like, I mean, maybe if there's like a problem complications with the intended parents, so that you can like field them and and um manage that, I guess. But like to me, that's like an on an as needed basis. So I was quite uncomfortable with the fact that like that was urinas, and again, because of the job that I do and right how I am very like this is my bubble when I'm giving birth, you know. Are you assuming that you're in my room too? And anyways, we you know, they were like, Oh, we can be in the waiting room. But I'm like, yeah, but that also I don't want somebody in the waiting room the whole time. Yeah, I didn't I didn't love that. And I didn't, I was very surprised to hear that. And then with my last agency that I had a great journey with, and my agency now, I know that they have uh gone to some deliveries on for very sensitive situations as needed, as appropriate, rather than this just like we're gonna be there, yeah, a part of the family, you know. Oh, I don't I don't actually want that, and like nobody else me. And how do I tell you? Because you're telling me that that's I signed on with you, and that's how it goes. That's how it goes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, how funny scary. But you know why is because some agencies they advertise that in their intended parent packages, and so that's part of the service they offer for the IPs is to be there for every birth. And so, you know, and some surrogates they want that, they're perfectly fine with that, and that is the agency for them, but those are definitely questions to have ahead of time. Um, and myself, I have supported surrogates um during and afterbirths as an agency member. And um, they were special situations where the IPs couldn't make it, or the hospital did not have very good experience with surrogate deliveries, and they needed that kind of social work there throughout their birth to be there to support them. Um, and other surrogates, you know, they are in a very strong relationship or have a strong support system that's super there for them throughout their pregnancy. So they don't feel like that they need that support, they don't need um that kind of middleman between the agency or between the hospital and them. Um, and then, you know, there are those situations where the IP isn't able to make it, or there's some complications with

What To Ask Before You Sign

SPEAKER_00

the hospital stay or with the birth, and they need that support person. Um, but you know, that's a huge conversation to have for sure is what you want from the agency, what boundaries you will hold with them, how they're going to support you and represent you. Do they represent you?

SPEAKER_02

You know, yeah. Right. But those are things that you don't know until you like. If the first time surrogate makes it right. Because like, I mean, heck, I went through my first agency. The caseworker for the IPs was there. Do you remember that mom? They came. She came, she came to drop off flowers to my IPs and was like, hey, and one of the dads was like, I don't want her here. And so they like brought the baby over to my room. No, we don't, we're not, we're good. Bye. See you later. And I was like, Oh, how funny, okay, but like they didn't, they didn't come for me, they came for them. And then my second journey, no one showed up. It wasn't even, I don't know if it was even offered, like it didn't really matter. Third journey, I was like, everybody stay the hell away from me. Like, I am on lockdown in this hospital. I don't want nobody near me. Um, but I did, I will say that though, I did end up having um one of the head people of that agency, like top people of that agency, come with me to a couple appointments because I was like, mm-mm, mm-mm, this is not a safe scenario. So, you know, that thank goodness that was offered. Well, it's an as needed, and it's an as needed.

SPEAKER_03

And there are situations that it's that it's a happy time that they want every yes, let's go.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And like they want to come enjoy and everybody's friends, and it's like, woo-hoo, like we're all, we got we we grew close. Like, I know there's case managers that grow close to some people. I was never one of those people. I was like, let me be on my journey. Like, let me do my my thing. But right, those are things that you don't know until they happen or until someone says it to you. Because like I was with an agency for again, that same agency where I clocked out the same day as contracts, and one of their red flags to me was, so we should go we go to every appointment. I'm like, why do you go to every appointment? That's that's weird, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

And then where's your privacy? Yeah, like I don't need you to hold my hand. I at that point I was gonna be a fourth time surrogate. I really don't need you to go to every appointment.

SPEAKER_00

Well, like when I'm getting my my booty hole swapped, it should be a little bit more. Yeah, like it's just definitely don't need you there at the agency.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's just yeah, you know, some some people like to have a little bit more hands-on. And I think that that's what I think that's what people need to go into with their boundaries. Like, oh, how hands-on do I want people around me to be? Like, do I want them to constantly check in on me? Do I want them to be at every appointment? Not just agencies, but IPs too. Like, you have to figure out how hands-on of a person like are you? Like, I don't like people to talk to me. Like, I just don't. Like, I'm just like, unless I bring the conversation to you, it's clearly not an open conversation to talk about. Surrogacy's different, obviously, because you're gonna be like, hey, here's the baby, this is what we're doing. But it it's just it's all very everybody's very different.

SPEAKER_03

And at the end of the day, it's a journey between uh two parties, right? But there's a lot of little tentacles. There's the agency, and there's the lawyers, and there's the hospital, and there's the birth plan, and there's the the appointments, and you're OB, and if you're high risk, there's so many people involved in this that. And it boils down to communication between the IPs and the surrogate. Like they they're the ones that have to set what's comfortable for them. And the IPs may have come in and they're like, we need this, we need this, we need this. And then once they meet the surrogate, maybe it softens a little bit. Maybe they can trust her more. Maybe they've had issues where they couldn't trust before. And now they're they're like, oh my gosh, our last embryos, and here we go. And we just need control, control, control. And I get that. I get it. Sure. But you can't you can't put that on the surrogate until you know her. Like you gotta know her. Everybody has to be open to well, because that don't want the relationship either. But that's it.

SPEAKER_02

But and vice versa, as you're saying, right? Um, because like I I was very much like, no more mothers, I'm not caring for any more mothers. And I put that on every people, and I was like, no, and then I met a beautiful woman, and I was like, oh, I really shouldn't be what's that word? Um not project-minded. No, no, no. When you like put it on somebody. Ah, when you project it, project, project it. Project. When you're, you know, you shouldn't project your fears onto someone else to make them now their fears. I think that's a very common thing in surrogacy, unbeknownst to a lot of people. Like, I don't think a lot of people realize that that happens. Like, whether it's the IPs putting some fears and like some like anxiety on the surrogate, or like vice versa, like, you know, surrogate doesn't text or or I don't know, like things that like a surrogate can say, like just I think it just goes both ways.

SPEAKER_00

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_02

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, with match points, like you don't always know what you want going into it, especially a first-time surrogate, but you know, even more so after three journeys, maybe when you've had you know certain experiences, you may have some preconceived notions as to what you think you want, but really what we're looking for is like feelings throughout the journey. How do you want this journey to feel? How are you envisioning certain milestones of the journey going? Do you want the IPs there for delivery? Do you want IPs that are very chill and um and you know, respect your boundaries, respect that you know what you're doing? Um, and a lot of those can come from, you know, a variety of different family structures that you work for or that you work with, that you carry for. And um yeah, and you were able to experience that, you know, after meeting somebody who really felt like a great fit for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, exactly. I also think when you learn something um about an agency or an expectation, you know, that they may have, um, that doesn't mean

Medical Records Access And HIPAA

SPEAKER_01

that you can't say, actually, no, that doesn't work for me. So um, this did happen to me. I got an email that was setting the expectations, these are your next steps. And I said, no, no, and no, actually. Oh, okay, you know, and I felt very and I explained why my you know what my rationale was for each of the things that I was uncomfortable with, with these broad statements. And um, like one of the things I have a personal issue with, and again, this comes from the nursing brain, is giving uh really anybody full and complete unfiltered access to medical records. Hell no. Even if I don't have anything to hide, it's the principle behind it, you know, when agencies will say, Oh, well, you know, really help us um to be able to manage your um bills better, like if we can be able to have your password for your uh whatever. And so I've I've heard this in different spaces, and I think that some surrogates they may feel comfortable with that, but I don't because linked to my account are also actually my children's accounts, you know. It's just right, and so sometimes people don't realize um what they are handing over, and so part of having boundaries, unfortunately, comes with uh a lack of informed consent um by these powers, you know, as surrogate surrogates are very vulnerable and they don't all come with uh this history and this knowledge or these different like mind sets like that I have. Um and so you know, I don't want to put fear into anybody's mind. If somebody's comfortable doing that, by all means. But the way that sometimes this information is presented is this is the expectation. And it's only when you know to say no that uh or that or that you can say no that there's another option and another way. Um, that happens too with if you're working with Art Risk or IFI, they may ask the same thing because it makes their job easier, but I'm not interested in making your job easier. I'm interested in talent that I do have, yeah, right. And so I that would be not that you asked, but my advice, you know, for surrogates is that if something doesn't feel comfortable with you, that's your body asking you to create a boundary. And that it is okay to set that.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes, that's a great way to put that. Yeah, all those little, all those little tummy feelings or all those little, oh, like, you know, our mom senses go off. Like that's what I call them. Like when you're like, oh, alert, alert, it's like, no, no, no, these are the things that need to be said, that these need to be done, that these need to be set. Like, definitely trust yourself and definitely listen to it because it's it happen it's happening for a reason. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a huge thing that we do navigate in the surrogacy industry is HIPAA compliance and just general privacy respect. It is a medical experience that you are sharing with somebody else, you're carrying else's DNA, somebody else's embryo. So it's a very unique experience when it comes to medical privacy. Um, the intended parents, you know, when they're signing on with an agency, is their information and privacy going to be protected, you know, on their end for a surrogate. Um, are agencies actually operating under HIPAA compliance um protocols? That is a huge question in the industry. And there's not a lot of regulation over that, a lot of oversight over that. And um you do, you know, you really have to decide what you are comfortable with and understand that if you are not comfortable with all of your medical records from when you were two years old being shared, which those do get sent sometimes. They do get sent. I have seen a surrogate's childhood vaccination history that a hospital just happened to send along with all of those centric records, you know, it's crazy. Um, you know, with all of these medical systems being digitalized, but um, you you can still be a surrogate if you're not comfortable with that. And a lot of women are just excited to become surrogates, and so they ignore those boundaries, they don't think that they have the ability to set them as much.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And um we just get excited to get pregnant sometimes, you know, it's this new thing that we're deciding to do, and we're excited for these beginning stages of the journey to go quicker so that we can, you know, hurry up and make our new dream come true. Um, but you have to you have to set those boundaries, discuss them, be open with them. You if an agency tells you no, that's the worst thing they can do, and then you just find another agency. But um the surrogate is in demand, so it is your responsibility to protect yourself when you are deciding what type of journey you want, how you want to be supported, how you want to support others through this journey. Um, yeah, you have to advocate for yourself because if one person can't do it for you, you find another. And um, but you know, you really have to make clear what you want and what you're comfortable with because um you will be the one to suffer if you don't um advocate for yourself when those red flag situations and questions come up.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, it's very true. I think a lot of times, especially first-time surrogates, get very scared and like the fact of like, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna. If I say no, if I set this boundary, I'm new here. They've been here for a decade or for how long? Like, oh my gosh, they're gonna blacklist me. Let me all tell you right now, I've been blacklisted and it's fine, okay? Like, there are there are reasons, and I don't even think the list exists anymore, but there are reasons, you know, that like there people talk in this industry, they do. But the thing about it is the not so great talk to the not so great, and the great talk to the great. So, like, you're gonna find out what pool you're in if if they try to to pull one over you. So, like, don't be afraid, it's okay, it's terrifying, and yeah, I know I'm just saying words, but I promise I've you know I've pushed back and it's fine. We're still here, right? L. We're here. People have heard of us, and it's fine.

SPEAKER_03

They don't like a lot of things we have to say. That's fine.

unknown

It's okay.

SPEAKER_03

I don't think it's free speech, people. Yeah, free speech. You know, but but as far as a boundary is concerned, you they you can you can speak up, you could just do it in a respectful manner, and you as um Sarah said, you you you tell why point A, B, and C is not gonna be cohesive with you. And maybe that is a talking point, and it opens it up and they say, Oh, you know what? We really never thought about it that way. Or gosh, that's a good point. I mean, there's got to be another way we can do this. So it's not gonna be a hard no, you're out of here. It's just I I can't from day one, we said advocate for yourself five years ago. Advocate for yourself. That's the same I'm saying now. Advocate for yourself. That's it. That's that's a boundary. Advocate for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, it's most important for yourself to let people know when you're not comfortable. Most people want to make you comfortable and happy in life and in surrogacy, you know. So there's always there's typically going to be follow-up questions of how can we do this better? And it's up to you to communicate what you're not comfortable with, what you prefer. And um, you know, surrogacy is a huge, a huge um learning experience, I think. For a lot of women, a lot of women who go into surrogacy are helpers, they want to constantly help people and give themselves to people, you know, they um are very selfless people, and sometimes that comes at a fault of your own experiences and your own safety. And um, when it comes to surrogacy or anything in life, you know, it's so important to communicate when something doesn't feel right to you and um understand that you are safe if you communicate that, you know, the worst somebody can tell you is no. So um and then you move on to the next.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah,

Advocate For Yourself And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_03

exactly. I agree, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, thank you, ladies. I think this has been very insightful and wonderful, and hopefully people can take from it.

SPEAKER_03

And yeah, I think they will. I I that that was a lot of good info in there. It really was from two really different perspectives, yeah. Really different perspectives, which was really cool.

SPEAKER_02

So thank you, Sarah and Sophia. It was a pleasure, guys. I'm sorry for my horrible Wi-Fi and change. Oh no, you're okay. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for having me again.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks for joining me. Come in. We'll talk to you guys soon. Yeah, take care, both of you, and good luck.

unknown

Good luck.

SPEAKER_02

Bye, oh my goodness. That was pretty cool. That was pretty cool. I really thought that this was gonna go like a very different conversation. Oh, yeah. I did. Well, because negative or more positive? I think a little bit of both. I I kind of thought, like, okay, because I know some of Sarah's personal boundaries because we've talked, and I know a lot of my personalities and things that I've learned, but like overall, this was like it in a nutshell. Kind of just like, no, like ask what you don't know is what you don't know. Ask the questions you want to ask. If you get the funny feeling, I mean it's listen, listen. You gotta listen to it. You gotta, you gotta deal with that. And like I just with anything. I don't want to equate it to but you're allowed to be like this, yeah, it's boundaries in life.

SPEAKER_03

Right, because you're out buying a car and you get a weird feeling about the guy helping you or the girl helping, you're like, oh no, we gotta walk. Right. And you walk. Yeah, and I know this is a bigger commitment, I get it, but advocate for yourselves. We've said it from day one. For sure. Speak up for yourselves, yeah. I think that creates really healthy boundaries when you speak up for you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and then you're because along with that, you're transparent, yeah, you're you know, like you're just very forward with what your expectations are. Correct. Correct. And so with that, you know, you will get matched with the right couple and right, right, or whatever, whatever direction you're going in. It'll be the right one, really.

SPEAKER_03

And that match, a good match, is 85% of this. It really is. Oh, yeah, it really is. Maybe 90.

SPEAKER_02

It's well, because I think boundaries are come naturally. Boundaries are easier when there's mutual respect. Yeah. And there's also kind of like less boundaries when there's mutual respect. Because you have a mutual common sense of whatever that is in your journey to be like, oh, we're because we're clearly similar in this, so I know this, or that. Like you're not having to be like, you're not like complete opposite ends. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03

And I think that serviceing has come a long way in the matching, which I'm so happy to see. So happy to see.

SPEAKER_02

Very long way compared to you. I know. I know. But social media has been super helpful at times. I agree. Most of the time, but there are times where it's not. But no, thank you, ladies, so much. If anybody has any questions or stories they would like to share, please feel free to reach out to us on Instagram at StopPeriodsit Period Surrogate or at our email at stop periodsitperiod surrogate at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_03

Another edition of Stop Sit Surrogate with Kennedy and Ellen Friday back. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_02

Before we wrap up, a huge thank you to our sponsor, US Surrogacy. Their support helps us continue to share real stories, educate our community, and connect families through the incredible journey of surrogacy. Thanks so much for tuning in to Stops It Surrogate, where every story matters and every journey is worth sharing. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_03

If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to give us a like and subscribe. Also, check out the link to our YouTube channel in the description. And be sure to also check out our children's book, My Mom Has Superpowers, sold on Amazon and Etsy.