Tanzania and Hiking Kilimanjaro with Scott

In this episode, we sit down with Scott Brills, co-founder of Pamoja Safaris, to learn about Tanzania and unpack what it actually takes to climb Kilimanjaro safely, see the Serengeti well, and travel in a way that respects people, wildlife, and your own limits.

Scott’s story starts far from Africa: a year abroad in Japan that flipped a shy, game-loving kid into a traveler, entrepreneur, and eventually a guide to some of the world’s most iconic landscapes. He shares how meeting his partner Josh on his first safari led to building a tight, local-first team, and how fair pay and training change the guest experience. 

From Tarangire’s elephants and Ngorongoro Crater’s “lost world” feel to the Serengeti’s Great Migration, we break down the Northern Circuit and when to consider quieter southern parks like Ruaha. Expect practical planning tips: best months to go, realistic costs, when yellow fever proof matters, and why bottled water should be your default.

If Tanzania has lived in your head as a someday, this conversation turns it into a plan—with the right operator, the right pace, and the right expectations. 

You can find Scott here:

Pamoja Safaris

Instagram

Map of Tanzania

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hi, welcome to our podcast, Where Next. Travel with Kristen and Carol. I am Kristen. And I am Carol. And we're two long-term friends with a passion for travel and adventure. Each episode, we interview people around the globe to help us decide where to go next.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Today we have Scott from Pomoja Safaris, and we're going to talk about Tanzania. And so Scott, we are just getting to know you. So excited to hear what your African connection is.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Yeah, thanks for having me, Carol. Kristen. I'm excited. I'm excited to talk all about it.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Okay, great. Now, so do you live in Africa or you live somewhere else and just go to Africa a lot?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

We have a team on the ground in Tanzania full-time. And me and my partner, uh Josh, uh who is my business partner over in Tanzania, is in charge of that. I'm in charge of kind of building up the business and everything. And so I spend about two months every year over there. Um and I've done so over the past uh 15, 16 years. So pretty, pretty good uh, you know, idea of things on the ground and you know, gone through a lot of uh crazy adventures and and fun, like, you know, fun uh story type things during during the formation of the business and just you know everyday life, operating the business and everything. So yeah, it's been it's been a journey.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

How did that start? Like where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Start stepping back as you know, growing up a long, long time ago in a land far away called Back in the 1900s. Back in the 1900s in a land called Metro Detroit, Michigan. Um I I I was born and raised in Southeast Michigan, not too far from Detroit. Um, I always grew up loving animals. I always grew up with uh entrepreneurial spirit, uh, but I never thought that someday I would own and run a safari company in Africa by any means. Oh, and then you're British.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

You have a little do you have a British?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I do I do have an accent. It's funny, I was just talking with somebody last night, and he's like, you know, I I've traveled a lot and I always get people thinking, like, you're not American, you've got an accent. He used to live in Bali for a while, and I was like, Yeah, me too. Usually every week somebody will say, Are you English or Irish? And I'm always like, Yeah, I get that a lot. Don't worry about it. Yeah, but it's just the fact that I travel all over and I have since I was uh 18 or so, um, that it just kind of uh made my accent sound a little a bit different than uh, you know, back to Detroit or 18.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

I graduate high school. I don't know, did you go to college or no college?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yes, I did, but I spent the first year uh studying abroad in Japan. Oh so after I got back, so I was over there with uh a group of other students, uh mostly from Michigan, but uh when I came back is when I started getting the comments about uh the accent. So I think it was being around all the people from around the world and being like in a very nascent stage of kind of development, first time away from home and everything. And I just kind of picked something up and it never went away.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Oh, that's awesome. So at 18, you were like, I want to travel the world, or what made you pick Japan, or how did that start? Because for also my kids are 18 and 21, and I'm encouraging them to do that because I wish I would have done that.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Heavily recommend studying abroad slash a gap year. Heavy, heavy recommend on that, especially for you know, for Americans or anybody else like from a big country that like, you know, there's so much to see here and do. Like, why would you travel anywhere else? Oh, I recommend that to everyone. It completely changed my life. Um, I went over there as a quite shy, kind of bookworm, uh video game kind of kid, you know, growing up. And I came back totally different, totally different. You know, my I was over there with a group of students mostly few years older than me, and they kind of took me under the wing and taught me life, you know, um, and obviously being in Japan was very, very different. Um, but it was really neat to be over there in this like work study program through my college, uh, where we would have classes, three semesters of classes, uh, and then we'd also do work. So, like half the time work, half the time study, and we get a couple days off a week uh to explore the country as well. And so yeah, I went over there very, very shy, and I came back less shy, let's say. Um, but you know, my my taste buds are completely changed. I used to think like pepperoni was too spicy. I grew up very white, I say, like casserole, casserole type white. And then and then I came back, and I I kid you not, I brought back uh three containers of kimchi because we stopped over at the Seoul Airport coming back. And my mom was like, What's that smell? And she's uh she's a super taster, right? So I grew up with very bland food. So I was like, Oh, it's kimchi. I I grew to love it over here. And she's like, What? She's like, You're not bringing that in the house. So it was winter time. We kept it in like a trash can outside. Oh yeah, I I do not, I'm not a fan. Yeah. She means she was like, What who are you? What have you done with my son? Uh and and that really solidified um after I spent that year over there, and I came back, I went back to my job at one of those big box like computer retailers where I was working selling computers, and I tried to do it for a few months, and I'm like, this is not what I want to do with my life. And uh I started my first business uh soon thereafter. So I was 19 at the time, and I started uh my web development business, and it was kind of just like a lifestyle business, getting the money I need to finish up school and and to survive. And it started getting uh you know more and more successful, and then I was traveling more and more. I kept going back to Japan for a few months every year. Um, I eventually started up a uh multi-day high-end culinary tour company in Japan, which is a whole nother topic for the next episode. Wow. Um but I I so I do that, it's like a passion business, and and you know, the fact that I run culinary tours shows you, you know, my palate completely changed. You know, I I came back so different in so many ways. Um, but I really have Japan to thank for that. And but I I also think that no matter where I would have gone, you know, on a gap year or study abroad, like it would have changed my life in in some way for the better.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, I asked that because uh there's another woman we interviewed, um, the lady from Tahoe, I can't remember her name at the top of my head, Kat Kat Medina. And she first went to an abroad like in Ecuador, and she's like, oh, South America just you know felt like it's called to her and it's really this special place in her heart. And I did this exchange when I was in college to Hawaii, and now like Hawaii has this like really special, but it's it's where in my eyes were first opened up. And Chris and I felt a little bit maybe with your Costa Rica, like if that's like when your eyes like really opened up, is that that first endeavor? Do you still like does Japan feel like, oh my gosh, I just Japan, I'm gonna keep drawing back? Or has it moved now to Africa?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Just curious. So I actually someone just asked me this a few weeks ago, and I said the two are such different places. Um they both have great things, but there's not like a ton of overlap. I like the food in Tanzania, but like you're on the tourist circuit and it's unlimited great food all the time, but the tastes, the the you know, uh herbs and spices, all that thing are very very different than Japan. And so I love the food in Japan. I love the the history and the culture uh in Japan. I love the animals and the culture in a totally separate way in Africa. I really go to each place, and and I spend about two, three months a year in each place every year, um, along with my other travel and then some time back home as well in the US. And it really, each one scratches a different itch. But I can say that one since I was there at such a young age, I changed my life so much that when I go back to Japan, it feels especially Kyoto, which is right around where I study, it feels like going home.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

And you did that in high school or college?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Right out of college. So I took um one semester uh in in Michigan, and then I went over to Japan.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Okay, got it. So wait, you you start you were 18, you took a semester, and then you went to Japan for was it one year? Uh yeah, about it's uh nine, ten months. Okay, and then when you came back, did you go back to school or what did you do?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah, yeah. So so uh I eventually ended up getting my my bachelor's degree. I would take off basically a semester every year to go back to Japan. And um I worked at like a ski lodge for a bit. I was like a waiter, a bartender, a ski instructor. So I just wanted to keep going back because Japan was just, you know, it opened up my eyes so much. I had so many friends over there. I I just loved being there, and I still love being there to this day, and I still go over there to hang out with friends. But this time I'm paid to go back to Japan, which is a bit which is the best. I get paid to drink in Japan and I see my friends, and uh yeah, it you know, okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Well, we're gonna have to have you back a whole other episode just on Japan because it's such an interesting story, and uh yeah, we got to go, but I really wanted to try to focus on uh Tandis.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Of course, yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

So, how did you first get to Africa and and and transition to having a tour company?

First Safari And Meeting Josh

Kilimanjaro Reality Check

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Exactly. That and that's something that I'm asked pretty often. Um so in in 2010, I went to Africa for the first time with my father. He's a pretty avid traveler, he doesn't get around as much as I do, but he'd always wanted to go to Africa. It was his first time too. We went with an American tour company with 16 other uh or 14 other people, and uh they were all older, like uh retiree age. Um, to give you an example, my father was the second youngest person of the group. So I was like the grandchild by far. Uh I was I was 28, 28 years old, and uh we had three different vehicles, three different guides, Peter, Josh, and uh one other guy, whose name is Stacey right now. Uh, but we spent about two weeks doing the classic safari route and cultural activities and everything. I had already planned to stay extra after that. So I was going to Zanzibar Island on my own for like a week of Fun in the Sun, and then I was gonna come back to where we started, which is northern Tanzania, and climb Kilimanjaro with a friend I had met the previous year in Mongolia who lived in the UK and was a surgeon. Uh, she was gonna fly in and we're gonna climb Kilimanjaro together. So this is pre-smartphone, uh, at least me having a smartphone. And so uh I had connected with Josh because he was obviously the best uh of the group. He wasn't even the lead guide. He was heads and tails above the other two guys. Um he was knowledgeable, he was funny, you could tell he loved his job. Everyone was clamoring to be in his vehicle, and the fact that I was faster than everyone else, I had to kind of slow my roll and be like, oh, I'm gonna allow other people a chance to be in Josh's car. Um you could tell, like he was he was just really great. And so I connected with him, we swapped numbers, he helped me with some of the uh the kind of logistics, um, with me traveling solo, going to Zanzibar and back, and then pre and post Kilimanjaro. And uh we we did Kilimanjaro. I summited barely if it wasn't for my friend Ann uh pushing me right at the top, saying, like, well, you can stay here, but I'm gonna go to the summit summit, the actual summit. And I was like, I can't let you do this by yourself, I have to go. And so she dragged my ass up to the top of the mountain. Um, so I credit her for that. But after after that was all said and done, we were there for a few nights at the end to uh to celebrate. Josh uh invited us over to his house to meet his wife and two kids at that time.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

How tall, how tall is Kilimanjaro?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

It's 19,341 feet.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

So about 5,900 meters uh for those that do not work in freedom units.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Oxygen or no oxygen?

SPEAKER_00 11:29

No oxygen. So uh they bring, and I know this now being a true operator that does Kilimanjaro trips, and I've planned it a few times since uh, that they do bring supplemental oxygen. However, if you have to use it, basically that's the point where you have to go down. So you break that seal, you're gone. Um so the the thing is is that you want to, and we did it the cheap way, and we went with a a cheaper company and a guy that really just didn't give didn't give a hoot about us. He was just walking like 10 minutes ahead of us on his phone the whole time. Oh no. Oh, I just remember so I remember at the time, you know, thinking like, huh, this I wonder if this is how they always do it. And like now that we run our own company, I'm like, that was that was so awful. Uh, you know, feeding us popcorn for dinner and stuff like that. It was you know, no wonder I was so weak at the top. Yeah, so it was an experience. Um, I I knew later on, you know, when I started, we started doing Kilimanjaro tours how not to do it, so that's great. Uh, but uh yeah, so the there is uh sometimes a reason why uh one company is cheaper than the other. Right. Right. And then something like especially something like either a safari that's uh a lifetime experience for most most people. Some people come back again, but a lot of people it's one and done. And Kilimanjaro, which is the same thing, but also you've got the added risk of it's a very tall mountain, you know, and there are just natural hazards doing that. It pays to maybe spend a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Okay, so how cold does it get on Kilimanjaro? Because you're like closer to the equator than say, like, because I'm in Colorado and we have our four teeners and like it's brutally cold, but 19,000 feet I would assume it's cold, but like how like do you have like is it like snowy and parkas at the top?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

There are glaciers at the top. It is the only thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Glaciers can be at the top of a mountain? I always thought they were in the ocean only.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

No, no, they're at the top of the mountain. Yeah, so this is so cold, and it's it's snow left over from a long time ago. Uh so it's so cold that these stay up there, but of course, climate change, they are shrinking, they predict by about 2050. They'll probably pretty much go away, but they're big glaciers. They're a little bit far off in the distance, they're not as close to the walking trail as as uh most people go on, but um, you can see them, they're big. It is cold. I have walked up there on the summit day in snowstorms before, trudging through inches of snow. But I've also been up there where it's just clear, you can see all the stars, it's a beautiful day. So we always tell our guests that are going up at prepare for anything, because I have experienced personally everything on that mountain.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

How long is it? Is there overnight?

Weather, Routes, And Summit Strategy

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Is it like yeah, is it we usually recommend it the eight-day route, uh which is the Lamosho route, but you can do it quicker. The reason why we don't suggest you do it quicker is because the biggest reason why people don't successfully summit it is because their body hasn't acclimatized to the elevation. So you get uh elevation sickness, hypoxia, and then you're you just get really tired or you get nauseous or all the above, you can't sleep, and or you can't eat, then you have to be escorted down the mountain if it gets really bad. And you know, all of our guides are trained to look for symptoms of that. When you're all said and done, you're spending all this time to get over there, and you've got like a day's worth of flight there, days worth of flight back, you know, you're spending this money already. Like spend a few extra hundred dollars to extend a few more days and to give your body the time to acclimatize. And also, we generally like to take people on a route that's a little bit less touristed so that you get um you get the experience with fewer people around and also better views. Uh so there's a few reasons why you should take your time and go up there and and do it right.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

So then you're camping, right? Obviously.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

The the shorter route, the Muranga route, has some huts you can stay in, um, but all the other routes, yeah, you you can't. And so we take proper like mountaineering, like Everest level tents in Garrett.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Okay, yeah, that's what I was gonna think. Oh gosh. I am looking up um Kilimanjaro Glaciers because I just was like, I just always see glacier in water, and it is a trip to see it on dirt.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Glacier on dirt.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

It's the only place in Africa with uh with glaciers. It's the tallest freestanding mountain in the world. And it's the tallest mountain in Africa.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Wow. I mean, it's impressive. What elevation do you start the hike at? Like how is Tanzania at like 3,000 feet to begin with, or are you at sea level?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Uh no, so in northern Tanzania, where you're at, uh like where we start, it's generally um the city's at about a mile up, um, but then we we go a little bit further than that uh at the gate which we start in uh climbing. So it's generally about 8,000 feet or so is where we start. And then you you gain another 11, 11,500 feet.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

That's a lot. I'm excited. I mean, I don't even want to do a 14 here in Colorado. That's as high as we have because I'm not gonna do it. I get too lightheaded. So I'm like, I like 11,000 is kind of like my max. And we're starting at five. So I'm only going up like seven. So that's that's that is funny because I don't know it. Like I'm California, so it doesn't even compute for me. So I'm just like, sure, it sounds like an adventure. Whereas Carol's like, I've already been there, and I'm like, I I've been with you in the five, but not I.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

So like it it's it is definitely uh a difference between the uh the 14s, because we've had people that like live in Colorado uh just a few trips ago that go on the 14, they're like, Well, we've done 14s, like we're good. I'm like, no, you don't understand. All the difference is when you go from 14 up to 19, you know, 341, that is a huge gap. Oh my god. About 50% of the oxygen uh as sea level at that point.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

So just curious, like for gr people that have, I mean, I I as a kid, I remember having out like um we uh had a house in Mammoth and that's what 11,000, I don't know, something like 12,000. Just driving there and I noticed that it was hard for me. But as a kid, that's different. I'm I'm pretty athletic now. But do you notice is there a certain type? I get seasick, but whatever. That's just a thing. Um, not so much though, but is there a certain person, or if if you've done that, then you get sick, or you just kind of it's just acclimation, just go take your time, and usually it works.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yeah, so that's the biggest thing is pacing um and giving your body that time to acclimatize to the elevation. So uh whereas uh when I did it with the cheat company, and I won't name any names, you know, the guy was way ahead of us and we were just left on our own, which is not the way way to do it. What our guides do is they go very slowly, like literally step over step, and they say, please stay behind me. I'm gonna set the pace. Because once you overexert yourself and get to the certain level, it's really hard to get your heartbeat and your breathing back to normal. So sometimes we have people that say, Oh, this is easy, but they don't understand at that elevation what you're doing to your body when you over-exert, how much, how long it's gonna take you to get back to that base level. So we always tell people, please listen to our guides and go at the pace that they're setting. As far as hypoxia, the the AMS altitude, uh, mountain sickness, uh, so our cute mountain sickness, that can hit anybody. It doesn't matter what age you are, how fit you are, um, it doesn't matter if one time you do it and the next time it could hit you, and the next time you're fine. Uh so it helps to have you know good heart health, of course. Uh, but we've had overweight people in their 60s and 70s do it with no problem, where people in their 20s get hit with it. Most of the people that end up having some symptoms are fine. They make up to the top, they just kind of have to push through it. When I did it the first time, I was definitely pushing through some of those symptoms, as was my friend. We just had like a day of feeling uncomfortable, lost a little bit of appetite and sleep, but it was fine. Now, the people that are kind of getting dizzy, throwing up continuously and whatnot, those are the people we really have to look after. And a lot of times when it gets to that point, we take them down the mountain. But we've got about a 95% uh success rate, right? Just because you know, the guide's setting the pace, looking after people and making sure that everyone, you know, is is good. You know, we we take oxidation readings via your fingers. We've got like a little thing you clamp on and it measures your your oxygen level. Uh, and so we do that every night and kind of like keep track of that to make sure everyone's getting enough oxygen. You know, and we take the the oxygen canister, like I said, but we tell people, you know, if you get to that point, we got to take you down.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah, it's just to get you down, otherwise you'd be carrying all this oxygen for everyone. Yeah.

Launching Pamoja Safaris Together

SPEAKER_00 19:47

And it's it's not even like a huge tank. It's it's like that big. Um, so it's not like a huge thing. You know, we've got multiple ones depending on how big big the group is, but it's just it means that it's that bad that we can get you down by there's a kind of a Escape route that just kind of goes pretty much straight down the mountain. That's not the one you take up because when you're going up, you want to go up high and then camp lower. Go up high again, camp lower to get your body used to it. But there is a route where you can get down really quick. And that is uh, you know, by the time you're three and a half hours down the mountain, almost everyone's just like, I'm fine, like I can I can do it again. Like, let me back up. Like, no, you can't, you can't. Like, you even my partner Josh, he's he's had the same thing happen multiple times. He's like, I feel better now. Yeah, I don't have to go to the hospital or anything. And it's like, no, you gotta you gotta sit this one out if you got that far. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Okay. So one of our guests back in our December launch, uh, Andrew Hare has this whole jet leg kind of like it's like herbs and stuff you take. He said when you go in the air, you get less oxygen and the cabin pressure and stuff. I wonder if he has something kind of like for altitude sickness when you go up.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

I have um heard of natural remedies. I forget what it is offhand, but there is like an herbal remedy that you can take. Uh, but we also recommend to anybody that's able to take uh a specific drug that's called Diamox to take it. Um I have done with and without, and I've seen people do it with and without. And as long as you're not allergic to uh sulfur-based medication, it helps a lot. Sulfur-based S-U-L-F-A. It's a class of medication. And so if they're able to take it, it's always recommended because it helps your red blood cells carry more oxygen throughout your body. And so it it helps a lot. And I was there, like, and I've had guests there too, where it's like, I want to see, I want to push my body and like see how far I can go and everything. But the problem is once you get to that point where you're feeling like crap, it's too late to take it. You have to take, you know, you start it like two days before and you're taking it every day, you know, morning and night. And so if you all of a sudden feel these symptoms, it's too late for you, and you're just gonna have to deal with it. I've been on hikes with people that said, I wanna, I wanna test myself. I'm okay, fine, but just want to let you know what to expect. And then they feel it and they're like, Oh, I wish I just kid.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Was it my daughter?

SPEAKER_00 22:09

I told you.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

I I told you so, but uh it's kind of like the dramamine where like we went out in Hawaii, like a little cruise or something while watching it, and my daughter's like, Oh, we do fine. And she's like, Oh, I feel well sealed. Then she took the dramamine. She was already sick, and then she just got really sleepy. It was like just the horrible experience. I'm like, okay. No, I'm sleepy and sick. No, I'm gonna be unstick. Oh gosh. Yeah, I was just curious, like, how do you uh so you graduate college, you have this web development company, you start to travel. What bridged from that to a business and thrive, you know, and and now it sounds like it's full-time and you're doing trips. And and I'm assuming Josh is part of that, I think it sounds like as well. Um, for your all of your Africa ones or Tanzania ones, is that right?

Hunting Ethics And Conservation

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Exactly. Yeah. So if I hadn't met Josh, I would not have this company. It's just a matter that we connected and I thought he was such a good person. And the fact that, you know, I said to him, to continue the story we're talking about, I went over to his house on the way. Uh, my my friend and I went over to the house after Kilimanjaro on the way, uh, in the in the uh vehicle. I said, Josh, you're like really good at what you do. Have you ever thought about starting your own business? He said, Well, you know, I'm diversifying about like I put some money into this farm and maybe opening up a shop in the neighborhood or something like that. And I said, like, you're really good at what you do, what I just saw you do for two weeks. What do you say? We partner up, we launch a company, I take care of basically building the business and getting the clients, you take care of everything on the ground. And he basically said, yes. And so we did that, think, and I was thinking, oh, I'm just gonna be starting it up, making the website, getting people, sending them over, and getting commission. Well, it wasn't that easy because he didn't know how to be an entrepreneur and I didn't know the tourism field or doing business in Tanzania, Africa in general. We both had a lot to learn. It was very slow roll for a few first few years. We didn't make a lot of money, we spent a lot of time just growing organically. Um, the first you know, year we had one customer, uh, you know, so it was very, very, very slow. No, yeah. Like, you know, throughout the years, you know, we we found out that we worked very well together and we still do, and we're really lucky in that we we never have any disagreements. We both think very much the same about all the important issues. Yeah, we're we're just on the same page without even needing to like talk about it. Like everything that I could trust him and the team completely with everything. He just takes control of stuff. He's like, hey, I did this, I did this, and so on. Like, oh, cool. Well, I did this and this. It's like, all right, cool. Uh, it's it's very easy, it's very seamless. And yes, so he he takes care of everything over there. Uh, we're based in northern Tanzania, but we do uh trips now, also combining you know, Tanzania with Kenya or Uganda, Rwanda, guerrilla trekking, chimpanzee trekking, Lake Victoria and Zambia, Zimbabwe, um, Botswana. So we work with those countries as well now. Um so we expanded a little bit. We're still still based in Tanzania, still our bread and butter. And you know, I've been all over Africa and done safaris everywhere, and I could say like Tanzania, although it is a little bit more expensive, uh, they charge higher park fees uh to keep you know the parks uh in in good condition, but it is amazing and has a ton of stuff that no other country has. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

So I have a neighbor that um they would go hunting in Africa, and they were very thrilled with this. And I don't agree with it, but and they were showing like the like you know the what they hunted, and then they said uh US tour person said, like, don't hunt the uh zebras, and they're like, Oh no, they have too many zebras over there, like the local people really want us to shoot the zebras. I'm like, is that someone just making up a story to feel okay about themselves? Like, do people shoot? Like, so d do the Africans like hate Americans coming over and shooting their zebras, or are they like, oh yeah, good.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

It's it's uh it's a thorny issue with many complex bits to it. Um so we so I I should mention, like, we don't do hunting. Uh we do photo safaris, and uh uh I think there is a place for hunting um done in the right way. Uh there are many places, countries in general that don't do it in the right way, according to myself. Like I said, there's many different viewpoints. I would say that um no, that like zebras are not apatheo. There's far less wildlife in general in Africa and elsewhere throughout the world than there used to be because there's so many more humans. And we, you know, built our lives in these places where the animals are and we're pushing them out of their habitats. And so the thing is when animals and humans meet, oftentimes there's issues, whether it be elephants coming and stealing crops or to a much lesser extent, zebras, because zebras eat grass, you know, zebras are are herbivores that eat grass along with like will bees and many other animals. So they're not like a pest. Yeah, there's a lot of them, but it's not the same issue as like some states that say there's too many white-tailed deer because there's no predators and the population gets out of control and there's like famine where like deer are starving and whatnot. That's a little bit different. You don't usually see that in Africa, and so I wouldn't go as far as to say, oh, there's like too many zebra or something like that. As far as hunting, though, there is a way where you can do it uh sustainably and in a right way where you know, let's say you are only hunting older males uh that are you know not gonna be reproducing anymore, and they're already at the end of their life cycle, and you know, you you do that and you charge a lot of money for it. And the the trickiest part is making sure that money goes back into you know ecological concerns into the park and anti-poaching and things like that. However, it just like many developing countries, and I'm sure a lot of developed ones, uh, the money has a way of just kind of disappearing into pockets and whatnot. That's hard to you know oversee. Uh you you really hope that the money goes to the right place, uh, but you can't guarantee it. So you just have to, you know, if you are a hunter, you just have to kind of do your due diligence and um and pick something that you know hopefully the the money goes to the right place. You know, because a lot of hunters are very ecologically minded. You know, I'm I'm not a hunter, but uh I know a lot of them really care about uh ecology and sustainable hunting and whatnot. And so there is a way to do it. It's just uh yeah, we we don't do that personally, but I I am in that that world as far as you know, we operate near where those reserves are. Uh there's no hunting in the national parks in Tanzania at all, but there are separate reserves generally butting up against the park where that is allowed.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Okay. And so where do you guys go in Tanzania specifically? So Mount Kilimajero, there's like Lake Victoria and where are the safaris?

Tanzania’s Northern Circuit Explained

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Um so they're all over the country. Uh it's it's over 25% national parks. The the country. I think it's 20, maybe 27%. And they're adding parks uh every few years as well. So they're doing a good job in that way. And there's also reserves which are separate. Uh that's where the hunting can take place, but it's still protected. And then you've got mixed-use land areas like Ingorangoro, which is not a national park, that's a giant crater, 12 by 12 miles. Uh, it's an extinct volcano that it erupted. At one time they think it was bigger than Kilimanjaro, blew the top off, and now it's a big caldera where all the animals go into it, and they have like a whole ecosystem just within these 12 by 12 miles inside of this volcano. Really cool. Wow. Wait, and where is that?

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Where is that? I was looking, I'm looking at a map. Do I know?

SPEAKER_00 29:34

This is between Arusha City uh and the Serengeti. So on your way to the Serengeti, you always drive through it. And so we take all of our guests there that want to do that northern circuit, we call it, uh, which is the most popular circuit. It takes you to uh Tarangide National Park for the elephants. It takes you to Ngorangoro Crater, which uh is what I'm talking about right now, and then it takes you to the Serengeti, which is the size of Connecticut alone, and it's uh it's about uh 6,000 square miles of you know, pristine wilderness full of literally millions of animals. And the Great Migration, if you've heard about that as well, uh, is in the Serengeti ecosystem. You know, it's it's amazing. Like you a lot of people uh that come with us think like, oh, like we might see an animal here and there, and like get out your binoculars, and like, oh, I think I could kind of see something. Because like they do safaris and other places, and I've done them too, where that's kind of how it's done. Here, you never come over and not see animals and not see a ton of animals to the point where like day three, you're like, ah, more giraffes and lions and and and like elephants, like let's go for like uh leopards or something they haven't seen yet, because there's just so many of them everywhere, and they're getting next to your car, like they're all over the place. And because of the density of animals, which in Tanzania is much better than most places in like uh, especially natural places, not like uh uh artificially run reserves like in South Africa sometimes where they like fly in animals and they fence it off and everything. This is all natural, and there's millions of animals everywhere, and they're acting like they would have acted, you know, thousands of years ago, and it's just it's amazing. Like there's the density of animals. You could look off in one direction and see the great migration. You're literally looking at thousands of animals as far as the eye can see, and you just don't get that opportunity in uh you know pretty much anywhere else. It the great migration hits a little bit of Kenya as well during certain times of the year, but uh yeah, this is the only place where you could see this.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

So, why do I know the Serengeti? Isn't that some sort of war? Why am I thinking that I think it's I think it's in the or the Sarangeti? I'm gonna say it's in Disney or something. Where do I know?

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Serengeti Serengeti ecosystem. Uh so Kenya and Tanzania is where they took the animators that that drew the Lion King to uh study the animals and their behavior so that they could animate it uh in that way. And so a lot of the uh the features, the geological features and everything and animal movement and stuff is taken straight from uh Tanzania and Kenya area, which are right next to each other, very similar countries. Uh and so maybe that, I mean, it it is considered the crown jewel of Tanzania. You know, just it's huge, full of animals. It's it's like you know, where everyone wants to visit.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

And uh the trips that you're doing, oh, I was just curious. Um, so how many types it sounds like you've got a lot of different trips. And how long have you guys been operating?

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Uh we're going into our 16th year now.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Wow, that's awesome. Congratulations. And what's the trip if someone was interested, where how would they look it up? And how much does it really cost?

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Pomoja Safaris. Now there are a few companies that came out and took, they call it Pomoja something like Pomoja Kilimanjaro Safaris or Pomoja Uganda Safari, stuff like that. We're the original Pomoja Safari. So it's so it's P-A-M-O-J-A Safari. So Pomoja Safaris.com or at Pomoja Safaris.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

What does Pomoja stand for? Is it a specific word?

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Good question. So this is Swahili. Uh so the the word safari is a Swahili word and it means to journey. Pomoja means together. So basically travel together is the name of our company. Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Oh love it. When are the good times? I'm assuming summer must be really hot. So is it like fall or spring or and then um how much do the trips usually cost?

Zanzibar And Culture In Context

SPEAKER_00 33:22

And how many people too? How many people? Oh, yeah. So so all of our trips are custom private. So whether you're a single traveler that is cool with traveling alone, you want that private experience, or you're a fan group, you know, a honeymooners, or you're a family, or you're a group of friends, or something. We basically take your group size, what you want to do, where you want to go, how many days you've got, what time of year, and then we create uh a special itinerary just for you based on those criteria. So uh there is no bad time to come. There's always animals. However, it is rainy or uh mid-March through mid-May. So we generally say, uh, just skip those two months. We'll give our staff some time off. And it gets a bit muddy and rainy. Some people still come, it's a little cheaper, but generally we steer people away from visiting during those times of year. But yeah, trips can range. Uh sometimes we have people just asking for a few days. They're like, oh, we finished a mission trip and we just want to, you know, do a few days in the Serengeti or something like that. And we'll do like a three-day trip. But generally, people are coming over from the States or Europe or Australia, uh, even Colombia. We've had more people from South America coming too, and they'll spend a minimum of like seven, eight, sometimes twelve, fourteen days. And we'll we'll do the whole thing, you know, whether they want to stay in Tanzania or they want to combine it with Kenya, or they want to do guerrilla trekking in Tanzania, or they want to do Tanzania and then go to Zanzibar Island for some fun in the sun for a few days afterward, uh, which like about half of our guests do. Yeah, we'll we'll just uh take all that consideration. We'll just build them something. And um, as far as pricing, uh generally it's about it's pricing starts for a standard like four-star accommodation, about six hundred dollars per person per day, all inclusive on the ground. Um, so quite affordable uh when you consider a lot of companies are charging a lot more than that. We keep our operations small and every a lot of stuff is you know, our team is virtual, um, you know, except for the team we've got in Tanzania on the ground, of course.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

Um pickup from the airport, um, food, transportation, everything. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

We we even build in gratuity based gratuity because we feel that it builds a it creates a better experience when people aren't worried about okay, how much do I bring, what denominations, keeping the money safe during the trip, and then like awkwardly handing it to people. Um, so we build that in in order to attract and keep the best talent. Uh, because we you know we're all about our people, right? Our our guides, you know, like you're with this person the entire time, uh, you know, your entire trip, you know, your safari portion of your trip. So we want to make sure that they're smart, they're educated, they speak good English, they're they're fun to be around, they're funny. Um, and so that's how we do that is that you know we we build these relationships with people long term. And an easy way to do that is uh obviously to treat them well and to pay them well. And so we always do that because a lot of companies, they don't pay their their guides anything. Um there might be a small little base pay, almost like what waiters are paid in the US, you know, like$265 an hour. It's like basically like that. Uh they leave it all up to the guests to basically pay the salary of the guides. And and sometimes like they've built their own like guests, like they come from a non-tipping culture or a culture where they tip a lot less. Um, like Asia, you know, like you're not used to tipping, or Europe, maybe it's like 10%. That's why all the guides uh that are working for the other companies, especially clamor for the American guests because Americans, you know, tip so well uh that they always want Americans. And um, you know, so we just kind of like in order to, you know, we work with people from all over the world, but definitely a lot of Americans. And so we we build that in and we're like, hey, you know, you are guaranteed this amount of money for you and your family when you're going on this trip. Everything else is cherry on top. So we found that works really nicely.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

And then what is that the same 600 bucks per person per day for what about Kilimanjaro? Like if and I don't even know where that is.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

K Kilimanjaro is less, but um, you know, for that eight-day trip that I was telling you about, it you know, if you were to come in, let's say just for Kilimanjaro, that's like an 11-day trip because you have to be there for two days beforehand because you fly in, next day is prep and gear and everything, then you start the trip, and then you've got an additional night at the end, and then you fly out. If you're just to come in, do Kili, fly out, like that's an 11-day trip. So um it's actually a little bit less than that. Um, you know, if I was to say, I'm just doing calculations right here, uh 600 times 11. No, it's that's way too high. Uh so Kilimanjaro would be closer to 400 a day. Uh and you know, that's because the uh we don't have, you know, you're not driving using the the fuel for the land cruiser every day, uh, and you're not paying uh for the accommodation you're you're camping. Um and although we you we make it as comfortable as possible in camping, it's still gonna cost a lot less than you know spending money at a hotel.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

So you would provide the sleeping bags and all the equipment you have to like lug your backpack. And where would you fly into? Is there multiple places in Tanzania or normally everyone goes to generally Kilimanjaro Airport?

Costs, Custom Itineraries, And Tipping

SPEAKER_00 38:19

So that's JRO um airport. And for all your tours? For most of them, yeah. So the the biggest majority of people, especially first timers, go on what we call the North Circuit. So that is the crater, that is Serengeti. Um that has so many animals that are so easy to see. It's a very easy route to do, and so we find that that's the best place to kind of show off Tanzania. Um, for people that are coming back second, third time, uh, they'll want to do something else generally, although some we've had people come seven times, the same exact itinerary. Uh, but for a lot of people, they they want to do like chimpanzee trekking in the west, or they want to do the southern circuit, which we would have to fly them uh a domestic flight basically from Kilimanjaro, that that area basically, uh down south, and then do a different circuit. And that's uh a few a set of a few different other parks called uh like Ruaha Park or Nyererde Park, um, that kind of that that general area is a lot less people. However, there's more ground cover, and so it's a little bit more difficult to see the animals. You won't see that spectacle of like tons of animals over the plains. You've got to gotta work a little bit more for it, but some people really want to stay away from the crowds, and so you know, we we recommend places like that if they want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Wow. I see a lot of islands too, off of Tanzania or others too.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

The Zanzibar archipelago.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Oh, Zanzibar, okay. That's what you were talking about, too.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

And and yeah, you've got Zanzibar, so uh Ngunjah, Ngunja uh Island, which is the main Zanzibar Island, and you've got Pemba, and you've got Mafia Island, and there's a few other ones around that area. And so uh most people again, first time they do Zanzibar. Or you know, the main island in Gunja, uh, and that's like easy, it's approachable. And then second time they might go to like Pemba, uh, which is a little bit quieter and you know, few fewer accommodations and stuff like that. So, yeah, or Mafia Island, uh, which is even smaller and less built up. So uh it's all the same weather, beautiful, crystal clear blue waters, white sand beaches, um, a totally different culture than the mainland because it used to be uh separate country up until uh 1964, uh when they merged with Tanganyika, which is what Tanzania used to be called, and they combined the two. They took the TA from Tanganyika, the ZA from Zanzibar, and Tia means country. So basically they they're like willing, like willingness to combine together. And so, yeah, they they basically uh joined together because Zanzibar was basically a little bit too small to be its own country, and they wanted protection from anybody else that might try to take over. But before that, it we used to be actually part of the Omani Sultanate, and so it's uh very heavily Muslim culture. Um about 30% of Tanzania is Muslim, about 30%, 40% Christian, let's say, and the rest is uh you know animist and you know, traditional religion and stuff like that. So uh everyone, you know, for the most part, all gets along. Um it's a very multicultural society, over 120 tribes. Um, and you know, you don't you ever hear about like ethnic tensions or religious tensions and stuff like that. It's a very, very safe, calm country. Um, there were some protests recently about a disputed election, uh, but you know, like we've been there for 16 years and it's been very, very quiet. Um, and you know, which is you know, you take other places that are like Kenya that are right next to like South Sudan and Somalia, and it's a little bit dicey, not so much in the tourism areas, but you know, it it pays a lot to have some nice neighbors on your borders, and they're they're generally pretty lucky with their neighbors.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Wow, that's pretty impressive. This is really neat. I know you we usually do like slow travel and um you know, living somewhere or staying somewhere and how that is. And um, I know that time flew. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be interesting with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

And uh we could we could do a third episode after the Japan episode all about that because I've I've lived for years traveling around, you know, living in Bangkok and living in Istanbul and and stuff like that. Oh my gosh, really?

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Those places we've oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

I've been I've been a digital, a digital nomad, I guess you could say, since about 2002. So yeah, I've been many, many places.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Okay. I definitely want to I'll email you. I'm I'm looking at doing that myself. I've got my kids in high school and I've got a business that I can just be anywhere. So it's like I want to travel the world for a couple of years. Oh, yeah, yeah. I highly recommend it. Yeah, absolutely. Very good. So a couple of our uh rapid fire questions, but some aren't so relevant to like living, but some are great. Um, so what are what's your favorite food when you get there? Like if you're gonna get one meal in Tanzania, what would you have?

DIY Travel, Transport, And Money

SPEAKER_00 42:58

So it especially Arusha, uh, which is where we're based, uh, is built on the slopes of the second highest uh mountain in Tanzania called Mount Meru. And the soils are volcanic because it's an extinct volcano. And so you've got a ton of fresh seasonal fruit and veggies around. And that's actually what I love the most, is when I tend to go over there end of year, it tends to be peak season for avocados and mangoes. And these little bananas that are grown on the slopes of Kilimanjaro as well, are like so much better than the bananas that we have here.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

What's a what is different about the bananas?

SPEAKER_00 43:30

It's like a little bit like it's a little bit more firm, it's a little bit more like tart instead of just being like mushy and sweet. It's just got like a more texture. I can eat that like sometimes I just eat five of them. They're so good. Yeah. Uh so I I really love and like passion fruit too. They have all these amazing fruits and veggies. Wow. And it's all like it's all like organic, locally made, you know. Yeah, uh, that's kind of the thing I love the most over there.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

And do they do they eat a lot of meat? What's the meat? Is it like pork, chicken, local locals?

SPEAKER_00 43:58

You know, they they tend to eat like a lot of um ugali, which is like a polenta, or rice and beans and eggs and stuff like that. And meat's kind of reserved for special occasions. Um chicken is is pretty common or goat barbecue. Uh, but when you're there as a tourist, you've got the whole shebang. You know, you've got fish, you got all types of meats and veggies. We work with people with like you know, food allergies or preferences, vegans, vegetarians, lactose uh tolerant. We are able to like, you know, to fit all of them in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Okay. And what's your what do you have for breakfast normally?

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Breakfast is usually a buffet. Um, I usually skip breakfast because when I'm over there, you're riding a lot in vehicles, and I don't feel like I get those 10,000 steps in today. So you know, three big meals, and I have a problem limiting my portions. So I find it's a it's easier to just like skip it and then eat lunch and dinner. But uh the breakfasts are always, you know, there's always like an omelet station and and a bunch of like you know, Danishes and stuff like that, and fruit, and oh like there's bacon, yeah, yeah. Like people that are breakfast people are never uh left.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

You know, what about breakfast in Tanzania for the locals? Like, what did typically do they eat for breakfast and um beans?

SPEAKER_00 45:07

So a lot of times it'll be um it's it's not that much different than what you would eat for lunch. Uh so it'll be like rice, beans, ugali, um, maybe a little bit of fish or chicken. It's just you know the amount of food or local spinach is really good too. Uh just the amount of food is less. Um yeah, they have a lot of culture from when they used to be uh a British colony, and before that a German colony, and before that, heavy influence from the Arabs um and the Indians that came over with the English. And so it's really like a combination of cultures. The language, Swahili, is a mix of cultures, the food is a mix of cultures, they have chapati, they have curries, stuff like that. You know, everywhere. Yeah. Um those curries are really nice too. I do like chapati and curry.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Okay. And it really sounds like this is probably a destination you do want to go on a tour. Like if someone were to go like by themselves, like how would you even get around train, bus? You need a guide.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

It's possible. So for the safari portion, you really do need a guide. It's technically possible to rent a four-wheel drive vehicle and make your way there, but you don't know the roads, which are seasonal, they're not on Google Maps. Uh, you don't know where the animals are because you don't speak Swahili and have a radio. So you'd kind of be like paying all this money to get over there, and then you're gonna miss a lot of you know the cool stuff. Um, but to just go over there and hang out with the locals and whatnot, some people do it. You just have to uh do your research as far as how to use the public transportation system called Daladala's, like little minibuses.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Is it really called Daladala?

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Daladala's, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Um, they have a different word for it in each country, but yeah, they're called Daladala's there. It's it's really cheap and you're packed in like sardines, 16 people in a minivan. You just have to be okay with that. Right. You could do it, you could do that part on your own. You can go to Zanzborough on your own. Kilimanjaro, you have to have a guide. You have to have a group of porters and everything with you. Uh and for safaris, I say like almost everyone does it with a guide in the group. Um technically it's feasible, but not recommended.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Okay. And then what is the money called and how do you deal with the money? I mean, I would assume you have to spend some of your own money for souvenirs and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

Um so nowadays, post-COVID, almost everywhere takes, even like small shops, take credit card. Uh so it's made things a lot easier. Uh, but for the local currency is the Tanzanian shilling. It's about 2,500 shillings to the US dollar. We tell people generally don't convert your money because the largest bill they have is 10,000 shillings, which is four dollars. So if you exchange$100, you've got a stack of cash. Uh and it's it's kind of unwieldy. So, tourism sector. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. And the tourism sector basically runs on USD. So you could use American dollars everywhere. They prefer American dollars. And so we say, just bring dollars, and if you don't use it on the bottom, just take it back with you, you know. So just bring a few hundred bucks for souvenirs or whatever, extra tips, whatever you want to do.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

So, what do like the Europeans do? Do they try to they do like the euro just as much, or are they really like US dollars?

SPEAKER_00 48:04

We don't like it as much, uh, but they will take euro, uh, pounds a lot less so. Uh, but they do really do prefer US dollars.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

So I mean, we should I mean, as an American, like we're so lucky, they can go almost anywhere and get speak English. People love the US dollar, like, yay, America.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Oh, yeah. Yeah, we are very, we are very, very privileged.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Yes. And we have passports. I heard some people can't even get passports to leave their countries.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Like, yep, exactly. I've got friends that are in that situation. It's yeah, it's sad.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

So, what kind of uh do we need shots? Do we need visas? Or you guys help figure that all out?

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Yep, visas are a hundred bucks for Americans, fifty dollars for most other people, which seems like, oh hey, what why are they charging more? Well, it's because the US charges more for everyone else's visa as well. And also ours is multiple entry and the other ones are single entry. So it kind of gives us a little bit of a leg up uh as Americans. But um, you apply online, pretty easy process, um, and then they'll just uh approve it and you just give them the uh your uh passport when you get to the immigration and they'll find you in the system and you're you're good to go. Uh as far as shots, you don't need anything, nothing is is required. Oh really? Okay. Yep. I mean, you know, the the stuff for when you're traveling to a developing country is always nice, tetanus and maybe typhoid or something like that. They're usual travel shots, but you don't need anything. The only exception is if you are uh transiting or you're visiting a country that is known to be have yellow fever in it, like Kenya or Uganda or Ethiopia or Brazil or something like that. A lot of countries are yellow fever endemic. Uh Tanzania has done a really good job of getting rid of it in the country. And so they want to make sure if you're coming from that country, you don't bring it into Tanzania. So they will ask for a yellow fever vaccination certificate if you are stopping by one of those places. If you don't go out of the airport, you're good. You just tell them, hey, yeah, I just I came via Kenya on a flight or Ethiopia, but I didn't leave the airport. And they'll be like, How long were you there? And you're like, you know, two hours, four hours, whatever. Like, okay. Um, but if you do leave the airport, you do spend any time over there, then you need to have that yellow fever vaccination certificate. So that's that's the only exception.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Is that a hard vaccination? Like um one and done. One and done. And do you is there usually um symptoms or anything?

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Or um um I'm I'm sure there are for some people. I remember I didn't have any symptoms. Um, but uh yeah, it's uh it's one of the easier vaccinations. You know, with tetanus, your arm hurts for a few days. So uh no, I I remember this one being very easy, and it used to expire in 10 years, but they just changed it uh so that you know one is good uh for most people for their lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

And then also uh water. Is the water drinking water? How is that? And do you think most places?

Rapid Fire: Food, Breakfast, Everyday Life

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Yeah, most places uh you shouldn't drink the water. You know, it's it's uh a proper like system, but like you know, just like Mexico, your body isn't used to it. So we recommend that you brush your teeth with the bottled water that we provide you during the whole trip and it's at your lodges as well. Um, and you just drink that. We've got plenty of it in the vehicle when you're there, and there's plenty of it at the lodges. Um, some of the lodges do have uh built-in water filtration system uh systems, so you can just drink from the top, but most of them do not. We we tell people, okay, you you could drink it here, but everywhere else, like, you know, do not drink.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Yeah. Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. So just a reminder how to find you. It's P A M-O-J-A-Safaris.com or at Pomo just Safaris on those social channels.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Uh Instagram, Instagram, Instagram, Facebook. We we share a lot of fun posts. Uh my my social media lady, Melissa, does a really good job. Uh she's based in she's based in California, for yeah, it's okay. And she all all all our good stuff can be found there.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Oh, that's so great. Okay, so yeah, so I definitely we want to have you back for Japan. Yeah, definitely. And and I think even just like I think a fun episode is not really kind of our normal, but like how to build a lifestyle with travel and and and and be able to do it work. I mean, some people do that, but like, yeah, I'll be picking. Yeah, you'd be yeah, we can we we'll watch Kristen's journey the next year later to go to later. She's been well, yeah, she's got some good travel this year so far. So we'll see. Yeah, hopefully. Okay, uh, I thought I was going on a horse um like kind of city slickers type trip um for nine days in uh Georgia. And then um and I'm I'm going, and it ended up being not Georgia the state, but Georgia the country. So Oh, did you think it was a state? I thought it was a state. Amazing. And then I brought up the link for my friend. She's like, hey, we're gonna do this. I'm like, I'm in, I I want to do it no matter what. And then I'm like, does Georgia have that a flag like that? That's weird. And then I'm scrolling down scrolling down, and I'm like, wait a minute, why is it talking about pizza or some sort of different? And then yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

You're in for a treat because I've not been to Georgia. I have a lot of friends that have. I've wanted to go for over a decade. Oh wow. Beautiful, the people are amazing, the food is so delicious. Oh, that's what I heard. It's at the top of my to-go list.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Oh, well, I'll send you this link. Well, that's backwards is kind of different. So it should be, it's called Unicorn Trails is the um the tour company or something. So it should be fun and it's uh priced right. I mean, yeah, the price was like really pretty good too. So, but we're moving their horses. There's two trips that move from the winter to the summer place and then the summer back to the winter place.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Ah, like a repositioning cruise. Neat.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Yep. So I'll be for that repositioning crew and riding seven days, six to ten hours a day.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

Like a cowboy. Oh wow. But I I I rode for 25 years, but I haven't been hiding in the last couple of years. I'm like, okay, I got it. I just was on a horse.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

I was gonna say, I uh the this is maybe not for a uh beginner or first timer. I haven't ridden in a while, but uh I could see that hurting after a while.

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Right, exactly. You're still going and still traffic pampering and going up, but it the video I saw was really pretty and I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

So oh yeah, that'll be a great show. Wow, that's gonna be super so cool.

Wrap Up And How To Connect

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Yeah, absolutely. Well, we'll definitely do an episode just on that, Kristen. Right, exactly, because that is so unique. Oh my goodness. All right, well, Scott, you've been really fun to talk to. I just really appreciate you reaching out and wanting to talk to us. This was dude for fun the wear next show.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Yeah, thanks for the great questions.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

Yeah, this has been and we know a lot of other podcasters if you want any introductions to other people.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

Oh yeah, please. Uh I'm I I could talk about this all day for multiple days, you know. Like it's I I I'm lucky enough, you know, in that we've been doing it so long that I I know it pretty well now. And uh, you know, it's it's really just like one of my passions, you know, in that like I I get paid to go on safaris. Like, how cool is that, you know? I get paid to eat food in Japan. Like I I'm lucky enough where I was able to develop a life based around things that I love and getting paid for. So you know, like naturally, I can just talk about this stuff all day.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

Awesome. Cool. Great. All right, well, have a great weekend and we'll be in touch. Yes, cool. Thank you so much, Scott. Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the podcast, can you please take a second and do a quick follow of the show and rate us in your podcast app. And if you have a minute, we would really appreciate a review. Following and rating is the best way to support us. If you're on Instagram, let's connect. We're at Wear Next Podcast. Thanks again.