In this episode, we discuss the science behind melatonin, the overlap between alcohol, cannabis and sleep, and how proper sleep hygiene can go a long way.
In this episode, we discuss the science behind melatonin, the overlap between alcohol, cannabis and sleep, and how proper sleep hygiene can go a long way.
Marissa: Welcome to the Last Call Podcast. My name is Marissa Whitaker, and I'm the prevention educator at SUNY Courtland.
Sarah: My name is Sarah McGowan. I'm the assistant Director of Student Health and Wellness at Onondaga Community College. Our jobs are to educate students about potential risks associated with substance use.
Marissa: We approach substance use from a neutral stance, and our episodes are rooted in public health with a focus on science and harm reduction.
Sarah: Welcome back to the Last Call Podcast. Today we are going to be talking about substance use and sleep. Just a little disclaimer. Sources for this episode come from the CDC and the National Institute of Health. So just to kind of start us off Mariss, the CDC recommends that college students or any adult aged 18 to 60 get between seven to 9 hours of sleep per night. And I think it's interesting that a third of US. Adults report that they usually get less than the recommended amount of sleep. So some of the negative outcomes that are linked with not getting enough sleep are many chronic diseases and conditions such as type two diabetes, heart disease, obesity, and depression. So this is a conversation that you and I have had more SS. Melatonin has become such a popular supplement that I feel like everyone is utilizing to get better quality of sleep. So can you tell us a little bit about melatonin?
Marissa: Yeah, I hear a lot of people using melatonin, and it seems like everyone and their brother is taking melatonin these days, but truthfully, I didn't know a ton about it. So as I fall down the rabbit holes of research so melatonin is actually a hormone that your brain produces in response to darkness. So it helps people with the timing of their circadian rhythms or their internal clock in their sleep cycle, and it helps people with sleep. But what's really wild about melatonin is that being exposed to light can actually block melatonin production. So we'll talk about this a little more. But it's counterproductive to take melatonin and then get on your cell phone to fall asleep because that TV, that cell phone light, that's essentially negating everything that the melatonin is supposed to be doing. Also interesting, that a dim light from reading a book that doesn't produce that same Led light effect, so it's safer to fall asleep reading.
Sarah: So, Mariss, that's really interesting because think of all the people that can only fall asleep if they're watching TV or if they have a TV on in the background.
Marissa: Yeah. And do those people take melatonin before? Because if they do, they might want to start to pick one or the other. Where melatonin can get a little complicated is that it's regulated as a dietary supplement. Despite being a hormone. It's regulated less strictly by the FDA than prescription drugs and other overthecounter drugs. So you might not actually be getting what you think you're getting over the counter. Melatonin is actually banned in the United Kingdom, the European Union, Japan, Australia, and most recently Canada. So we can get it over the counter here, but there are more strict rules in other countries to get Melatonin than there is here.
Sarah: That's crazy, Mariss. I had no idea.
Marissa: Yeah. And what's really wild is that melatonin content, they did some research similar to CBD. Sometimes I think melatonin is this big fat that I'm taking this, I'm taking this. But do you know what you're getting? Because they did research on Melatonin that was purchased from random locations and the content varied from 83% less to 478% more Melatonin that was listed on the label. So what you might think you're getting is not actually what you're getting for a little harm reduction around that. If you are going to purchase Melatonin, you're going to want to look for a USP verified mark on the product and USP stands for the United States Pharmacopeia to be sure what you're getting on the label is what actually is in the bottle.
Sarah: It's also really interesting, Mariss, because thinking about the ways that people shop these days, amazon, you could be buying what looks to be a legit products on Amazon, but if you don't see that USP mark on it, it could be completely different than what you think you're consuming.
Marissa: Yeah. And different additives. So it's like CBD and Melatonin. Okay, so what doesn't this happen? Not saying that there aren't benefits to either of the two, but it's also not this like magical snake oil that's going to make you have a restful sleep, too.
Sarah: Just kind of thinking about that. You're putting additional hormones into your body. I don't think people think of it like that. I think they think of it like they're just taking a pill. But what are you ultimately doing to the hormones that you already have in your system if you're adding additional ones?
Marissa: Yeah. And so this is actually kind of a good segue to talk about sort of the safety of melatonin. So short term use of Melatonin, that's where most of the research lies. And it appears to be safe for most people to be used short term, recovering from jet lag, trying to reset a sleep cycle, people that are like shift workers. You're not getting jet lag flying from Long Island to central New York because the start of the semester, that's not jet lag. There's not a lot of information on the long term safety of supplementing with melatonin. And what we have found out, the National Institute of Health found out that there's a small but growing number of people who are taking far more than the five milligram dose that's recommended for short term use. So I'm just going to take an extra Melatonin because I can't sleep tonight. And then you pop three of your gummies. That's not how it's recommended to be used either.
Sarah: Five milligrams. We talk about this a lot when we talk about cannabis products and what that looks like. But it's so interesting because on a lot of the bottles of those gummies that will say the serving size is ten milligrams, and to get that, you consume two gummies. But how many people are actually just taking what it's recommended or even just taking that five milligrams? I've purchased bottles that have ten milligram serving sizes and I had no idea that the actual recommended serving size was only five milligrams.
Marissa: And similar to with cannabis, some states have five milligrams, some have ten as the serving. There's a lot more research, I think that needs to be done looking at especially the long term use and for melatonin supplements, particularly at doses higher than what the body normally produces, there's not a lot of information about what the possible side effects are to get a clear picture. So the side effects that we know about could include headache, dizziness, nausea, less common, but stomach cramps, irritability, anxiety, low blood pressure. A lot of these are side effects of not getting enough sleep in general. So you're taking something that also gives you these side effects. We're not sure about a lot of it. And also how does it interact with other medications that you're taking or allergic reactions that somebody could have?
Sarah: Yeah, that's really interesting.
Marissa: Russ, one of the last thing, and this is something that you hear a lot of people like life insomnia. Melatonin helps with that. Insomnia is not like I can't sleep every now and then for like a night insomnia diagnostic condition when the symptoms last for a month or longer, not being able to sleep because you're nervous about a test and you took a nap 5 hours ago, that's not insomnia, that's just poor sleep hygiene. So does melatonin help with insomnia? Melatonin is found to decrease that time for someone to fall asleep. But when you're getting into again that severe insomnia, the American Academy of Sleep Medicine and the American College of Physicians say that there's not really strong enough evidence on the effectiveness or the safety to use melatonin for treating insomnia.
Sarah: So something to think about and to keep in mind is that being a college student is stressful. We understand and we get that, we've been there. So are there times when it could be useful to consume melatonin or to use melatonin? Sure, but what are the prices that you're paying for kind of longterm use to that? I also think more thing that we could talk about a million different products or supplements that are out there that people take to help with not being able to sleep. One thing that comes to mind for me is equal. But something if you need a substance to fall asleep every single night. Whether it's melatonin or we're going to jump into some cannabis and alcohol stuff in just a few minutes. But if you need that substance to fall asleep every night. It might be a good idea for you to talk to a professional about how to get better sleep. And maybe you can get a diagnosis of insomnia, but also realize kind of what Marissa said. And insomnia isn't just tossing and turning a couple of times in the night. It's a chronic condition where you can't sleep for long periods of time.
Marissa: Yeah, by taking melatonin or Z, Quill, Tylenol PM, any of this, you're using something to treat you as an individual for your sleeping. But sometimes our inability to sleep really lies in our environmental factors, and it's a problem with your surroundings. For example, falling asleep with the TV on and you're on your phone, and you're sharing a tiny little dorm room with someone who you might not know all that well. Yeah, that's going to make sleeping difficult, especially during those first few weeks of college. You're in a new place or sharing an apartment with three other people. Even if they're your friends, they might be awake when you're trying to sleep, there could be a rager happening next door, like, yeah, it's hard to fall asleep when there's loud music playing and people shouting. You're not really setting yourself up for a night of tranquil. Bless. Also, too, using a substance to fall asleep after using another substance, that might prevent sleep not going to help. So smoking a blonde after having vodka Red Bulls or smoking weed after doing cocaine or taking Vivance, that's not going to put you in an REM sleep state, which is actually a really good segue, too. Sarah mentioned a second ago talking about cannabis and alcohol. So tell me a little bit more about those substances in sleep.
Sarah: Sure, Marissa. So, with cannabis and alcohol, people can experience sleep difficulties and or insomnia during withdrawal from either one or both of those substances. So cannabis and alcohol both impact your ability to get REM or rapid eye movement sleep, which is what your body needs to ultimately kind of recover and rest from your day. So consuming too much or both of either substance may cause you to fall asleep quickly, but the quantity of sleep that you're getting is sacrificed. So it's really interesting because I was reading a couple of research studies that kind of talked about alcohol and sleep, and people with higher alcohol consumption experience poor sleep quality. They have trouble staying asleep, and sleep duration is often disrupted or lessened as a result of drinking. So it's also kind of funny that in this study that I was looking at, they also said that people who consume alcohol are more likely to snore. So your sleep is being disrupted because you're not getting good quality sleep. You could be waking yourself up with snoring or not getting enough oxygen, kind of as you're sleeping at night. But it's also funny to think about that your partner's sleep could potentially also.
Marissa: Be impacted as well, like alcohol and do sleep apnea.
Sarah: Yeah. So it's interesting because many people think about cannabis and alcohol, both as substances that might help them go to sleep. And I don't know about you, Murray, but I've talked to quite a few college students who say that I can't fall asleep unless I smoke weed. So I'm hearing about that more and more. So we've talked a lot about CBD previously, but if you think about all the CBD is being marketed for in the media, it's kind of like a miracle drug. Meanwhile, scientifically, there hasn't been a lot of good research done to prove that it is helpful for everything that it says it is, including sleep quality. So I think it's also important to know that we're not talking about people who have been diagnosed with actual medical conditions like insomnia or PTSD, that those are completely different circumstances. In terms of everything that we're kind of talking about, cannabis can be helpful.
Marissa: When a nightmare triggers a stressful response. Having, like a dream that, I don't know, you turned into a dinosaur and ran through the school, that's not a nightmare. Like, we're talking people that have had traumatic stress.
Sarah: Oh, absolutely. So it's also really important to think about the synergistic effect of substances and what that could do to your sleep. So if you're taking substances together again, your ability to fall asleep, that might work in your favor. But what are you going to sacrifice in terms of being able to wake up and feel great the next day?
Marissa: Yeah. Falling asleep doesn't mean you got a good night's sleep. It's easy to get the two confused.
Sarah: If you aren't an experienced user of either. It's also important to understand your limits and try to stay within them. So if you're not sure what your limits are, or you want to talk to a professional about how to cut down or cut back, please feel free to reach out to your campus alcohol and other drug prevention coordinator. We also have a podcast on kind of knowing your limits and when to cut down or cut back. Also, we touched on this previously, but if you're really struggling with getting good sleep or insomnia, please don't self medicate. Consult the healthcare professionals. So as much as you might have WebMD your condition, only a healthcare professional can diagnose you with a condition that would cause you to be consuming medication for your sleep quality.
Marissa: Yeah, and we just talked at length about cannabis and alcohol, but I also think we'd be remiss not to cover just the basic caffeine. So, like, drinking a venti machiato and expecting to fall asleep an hour later probably not going to work. Like, God bless the people that can do that. But that was a sad day when you no longer do that. So we just talked about the in abilities to sleep. I think we should probably, very briefly, at least cover the most basic sleep hygiene. So if you're having a hard time falling asleep, here are just a few tips that you can try.
Sarah: Absolutely. So it's important to develop a sleep routine. So like everything else, we can't tell you what exactly is going to work for you, but we can give you some ideas. So with the sleep routine, try to get up and go to bed around the same time every day. And if you know that you have something to do in the morning, don't wake up 20 minutes before. Give yourself enough time to kind of wake up in the morning so that you kind of can feel energized and get through the rest of your day. What else?
Marissa: Maris and this one is really hard. I fall prey to this as well, so I have something to improve upon as well. But turn the lights off. No screens. This is your TV, your cell phone. Blue light glasses can be helpful, but if you're trying to fall asleep with glasses on, which that's the worst, turn your stuff off. That keeps you awake. That's like the whole point of cell phones is to simulate attention and get your brain fired up. Falling asleep scrolling through Instagram not going to help you get a good night's sleep.
Sarah: Yeah, even playing games, Mariss, how many people play games on their phone to relax or wind down? And then you're just reactivating your brain's ability to get into something like Candy Crush, it's not going to help you fall asleep.
Marissa: Sorry, I know nothing about that. But Two Dots does. Anyway, you can also take a hot shower or a hot bath before to relax.
Sarah: Also, you can read a book or do something to wind your brain down. So like you said at the beginning of the episode, Mariss, it's really interesting because like, a booklet doesn't turn on that brain response that screens do. So reading can actually be helpful because it kind of tears your brain out as you get kind of more into what you're reading. Reading a textbook might not do the trick, but it might. You never know.
Marissa: It might. I mean, it depends on what your class load looks like. So two birds.
Sarah: Oh my God. Also try to move during the day. So try to get some exercise because that can actually pair you out and make it more easy for you to fall asleep at nighttime. So whatever movement feels good to you or that you enjoy, try to incorporate that into your day.
Marissa: And we had briefly mentioned before avoiding caffeine and alcohol before bedtime, but also try to avoid eating large meals before bed or eating in bed, which again can be really tough in a residence hall. But try to keep your bed for bed related activities like sleeping.
Sarah: I like that. So thank you so much for listening to this very interesting episode on substance use and sleep. If you have any questions, as always, please contact contact your campus AOD prevention educator.
Marissa: Alright, we'll see you next time. Bye.