Episode 1: Introducing Wondermine!

Elizabeth and Larissa share a bit about themselves and their vision for Wondermine.

Music by ZakharValaha from Pixabay

Larissa Parson 0:00
Welcome to Wondermine. I'm Larissa Parson.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 0:04
And I'm Elizabeth M. Johnson. We are the duo behind this new podcast called Wondermine.

Larissa Parson 0:10
Wondermine is a limited-series, feminist podcast that looks at the wow and the how of living a life rooted in curiosity, community and liberation. If you've ever felt like something was missing, or you were missing something, this is the podcast for you.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 0:32
This is our very first episode. So we're dipping into the wondering waters with a little bit of who we are, what we do, and what informs our worldview, and how we came to be here in this space right now. If this does not interest you hang tight. Episode 2 will be out shortly.

But before we do anything else, let's introduce ourselves and do a little bit of a check in. Larissa, want to start us off?

Larissa Parson 1:01
Sure. Hey, everyone. So I am a joy coach, a movement teacher, a mom of twins, a bit of a hippie, and my favorite things on Earth right now are food, Roy Kent, and books and putting my feet in sand and salt water.

I help my clients get radically resourced so that we can all live a life rooted in embodied joy and justice. I do this through group coaching, one to one support and movement classes. And I live in Hillsborough, North Carolina on the traditional lands of the Eno, Tutelo, Sapone, Occaneechee, Shakori and the Tuscarora people. And Elizabeth, who are you?

Elizabeth M. Johnson 1:48
Dazzled at that introduction, because that's very hard to follow, but I'm going to try. I'm Elizabeth M. Johnson. I'm a writer and a reader. I'm a rape survivor and a big eater. I talk and write about trauma, relationships and culture. I'm also the parent of an elementary school aged kiddo. I'm a partner, I'm a sister and a daughter. I live in Durham, North Carolina on land that was formerly the territory of the Lumbee and Shakori tribes, and a big yes to all that sand and salty water talk. I am right there with you.

Larissa Parson 2:25
I feel like before we check in, I feel like we really just need to say that that is what truly could access his food, saltwater, and books,

Elizabeth M. Johnson 2:34
and coffee

Larissa Parson 2:35
and coffee. Anyway, do you want me to check in or do you want to check in first?

Elizabeth M. Johnson 2:41
Mmm, why don't you check in first?

Larissa Parson 2:43
Okay. So um, right now I am enjoying the cool weather outside. I am feeling how the change in seasons really is lining up with this whole experience, I think going through in my body over the last couple months of I just had surgery. And that whole process has involved a lot of like, turning inward, and processing and healing. And it's a really slow process, kind of like fall where you're like, it's hot. And now it's not hot, and it's hot. And now it's not hot. And now the leaves are a little different. And I'm just noticing some things. And the other thing that I'm really delighted about today is that yesterday I got cleared to eat food with texture. And I cannot say enough about how much I have been missing crunchy things. And like nuts and salads, and Cheetos and all kinds of things like that, like anything. And so I am delighting in the universe of possibility that has just opened up for me this week. How are you doing, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth M. Johnson 4:04
It's funny, I feel like I don't often think about the textures of things that we're eating until we're told we can't eat those textures because I'm thinking I'm not sure what I would be eating in a day honestly, Larissa, if it's not going to have crunch. I love nuts and I love apples and I love salads and I love like a Dorito or like a chip like that. So that's just uh, yeah, I'm feeling you on the textures, big time. What am I checking in with? This - this has been a very weird, different sort of week because I had to go pick up my daughter from school on Monday because she told her teacher that she had a sore throat. So then she needs to leave school .We had a whole, like not unintimidating, sheet of paper like okay, here's what you now need to do in order to get your child cleared to go back to school and it's like...this is what it means living in a pandemic. And I I try not to be that person who is waiting for the other shoe to drop but I was waiting for a call like this. And so we went and did it and gosh the the we'll talk about privilege and lenses in a little bit but how fortunate I felt that literally, Larissa, where we've walked before there's a testing site -we could have walked there we didnt, we drove. but got her tested and then came in like, less than 24 hours later I had the COVID negative results. So that was huge but it was also like I feel for people in other parts of the country and more rural areas... I had a friend who's in Florida waited for the results for her daughter for like three days. so just a lot so lots of big emotions. I feel like I'm always saying I'm feeling about big emotions right now! I don't know whether it's because I'm perimenopausal, OR because I'm waiting on a COVID test. So, lots of things around that. She is back to school today, fingers are crossed that it's a good day for her.We kept her home yesterday because she still felt little likes all cold and sniffly and stuff. And I was like, let's just keep it low key. Yeah. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. I'm just feeling really grateful to be in the space with you this morning in a hopefully quiet house. I say that because there's a dog in the next room and no one knows what what will launch him into his full sound effects. So that is that's where I'm at right now.

Larissa Parson 6:33
That's great. That's great. That's great, Elizabeth, that you are feeling all these big feelings, right? I mean, that's the thing I was grating about, like there's so much pressure in our culture to not feel our big feelings, or to only express them in certain ways. And I feel like that's one of the things we'll probably talk about some at some point on this podcast. But I want to hear your big feelings and acknowledge your big feelings and celebrate your big feelings.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 7:05
Yeah, thank you. This is such an interesting forum. Because what we're doing right now, I mean, like, no spoiler alert, but I can see Larissa and Larissa can see me I feel like this is just how the pros do it. So this is how we're doing it. But what y'all can't see when you're listening to me like this Larissa, how many times like I touched my heart. when Larissa is speaking about something because it's like... I did this in support group. And I do this when I'm with people like I feel what they're feeling like really strongly. And that's one of the ways that I validate but you all-- listeners in the world out there --cannot see this but thankfully Larissa can. But so that's kind of a way that I I have validated in the past. And so I'm feeling very validated by you right now. So thank you for that, my friend.

Larissa Parson 7:46
You are so welcome.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 7:49
Okay, should we get into a little bit of who we are and what we're bringing to the table like I'm thinking privileges and lenses we use, I feel like the privilege piece is especially important to acknowledge both because it informs, our listeners are knowing what informs our worldview, but also as a way to kind of acknowledge the power that we have in this space right here, both with each other. And of course, in the greater world. That feels like a good start, Larissa?

Larissa Parson 8:14
Yeah, that feels great to me. I love looking at pretty much everything through an intersectional lens. I kind of reside smack in the middle of many intersections, I've been spending the last couple years really diving into and, and feeling a sense of comfort in. So I come from an upper middle class family. I grew up in DC on Capitol Hill. And you know, like two blocks over were drug dealers and 10 blocks away was the Capitol. So you know, it's kind of already set that scene. My parents grew up at opposite ends of the income scale. And that also sets up like a lot of stories about who they who they were, when they were growing up, and all of that kind of stuff and who I visited for holidays. Let's see other stuff. Education wise, I have a master's degree from an Ivy League school somehow. And that is an important lens to acknowledge. It gives me access to an understanding of academic language. When we start talking about things like intersectional feminism, I don't tend to use what I learned in grad school, specifically the content that I studied much in my work these days, but it definitely--that whole experience of spending a lot of time in academia--informs how I think and talk about things. Let's see, I'm black. I'm biracial. And I grew up listening to stories about the ways that my parents were harassed and threatened for having the relationship they had. I'm bi/pan/queer, but I'm also married to a white cis man. I'm relatively able-bodied, most of the time. And I have a chronic illness and I had surgery related to that illness just four weeks ago. And let's see, I think, oh, & finally, I'm no one's idea of thin really, but I'm more curvy or small fat if you talk to my fat activist friends and ask them to describe my body. So I hold a lot of privilege. And I walk through the world in a body that doesn't ever quite fit into all of the categories people want to put it into. And I think that's what informs a lot of my thinking and a lot of my work. And I think that's all I want to say about that right now. Elizabeth, can I turn it over to you? Does that all make sense to you?

Elizabeth M. Johnson 10:49
Yeah, that's great.

Larissa Parson 10:50
I mean, you knowing, me...

Elizabeth M. Johnson 10:52
Yeah. Yeah, that all does make really good sense to me. Okay, let me think here. And I actually, as you're talking, I realized that I did not have able-bodied as one of mine that I was wanting to share. And that is, that is true for me also. I am a native English-speaker. I identify as white cisgender female and I'm married to a white cisgender male. We have a small, I keep saying small, but she's an elementary age child. I don't know why I keep saying she's a small child. Anyway, she's in school today. I came up late of age and the late 70s, early 80s. And I am one of those people who really solidly identify as a Gen Xer - latchkey, get on your own, you make your own snack, you fend for yourself, we're locking you outside, come home when it's dark. That is like very much my like, my upbringing completely. I grew up in Connecticut. And with three siblings, I, I would say we were working class because there were so many of us. I have three siblings, if there were fewer of us, I would say we were solidly middle class. My mother was a teacher, my father worked at a newspaper. My father did not go to college. And my mom did. I attended private school for most of my childhood. And I have higher ed privilege. I do have my master's Master's of Arts degree. I also carry thin and pretty privilege. So if people are like, Whoa, what's that all about? I am right there with you. Because it's a little bit newer for me to acknowledge as well. So I'm learning too and I think that's something that we're probably going to talk about. It'll come up at some point in different episodes. I, I'm pretty committed to examining and owning my own privilege and raising my voice as an ally where I can. My view of feminism is pretty intersectional. It's not sort of white feminism, at least I generally think it's not white feminism. It is grounded in consent and looking at isms, and influenced by folks like Audre Lorde, and bell hooks and actively anti-racist. Yeah, let me let me kind of stop there. Let me pause right there.

Larissa Parson 13:16
I really love hearing that whole picture of your sense of self. And I forgot to mention that I identify as a cisgender woman. And so that's like, Oh, I forgot to mention that. That's good. I like that, Elizabeth. Thank you for bringing that in. Yeah. So you know, I feel like between the two of us, we are both pretty committed to looking at the world as a more complex and nuanced place. And at everyone's place in it as complex and nuanced, and not always a dual binary system. That that's really that's really so much of how our work, intersects, if you will. So I wonder if maybe that's something we should talk about a little bit - is where our work intersects, and a little bit about our own work? Maybe a little more, and why did we want to do a podcast where we talk together about this stuff?

Elizabeth M. Johnson 14:17
Yes. Do you want me to start off, what do you want to do?

Larissa Parson 14:23
I can start if you want to me to. Sure, that's fine. So, I feel like I really kind of want to share a little bit of our How did we get to know each other's story when it comes to like, what the work that I'm doing in the world is because I feel like conversations with you, Elizabeth have actually affected how I show up in my work. And so I started off in this era of my working life as a movement teacher focusing on core and pelvic floor health. And Elizabeth and I got to know each other through some local entrepreneur networking groups. Groups are one specific one. And one of the things that I realized very quickly was that Elizabeth work was so important to helping my clients have a sense of body literacy. So when I met Elizabeth, I took a workshop from her about trauma and birth, called "When Survivors Give Birth". And that course, really shifted a lot of the language that I use and gave me tools to help my clients feel more at home in the process of working together. So as I start kept working with folks, I realized that the sense of body literacy and that sense of comfort in their bodies, and like already, bringing people into a room that has a sense of being a soft or safe space to be in, in the first place, was a way of smashing the patriarchy. And then I just found myself kind of diving deeper into ideas about body liberation, and trying to find other ways to connect with my clients around how they're aligning their lives to create a more just world and that's kind of where my work is sliding into a little bit more now. So that means I focused on making all of my classes and coaching group coaching experiences a place where radical self love as explained by and generated by Sonia Renee Taylor, where that happens. And so now I even coach other movement teachers in creating spaces that feel that way, and making their classes more accessible to more bodies. So that's where my work is. But, Elizabeth, can you share a little bit more about your work? Because I feel like I've talked a little tiny bit about how I love your work, and it connects with mine. But I want to hear you describe your work.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 16:58
Yeah, I feel like my work is less straightforward than your work right now.

Larissa Parson 17:04
*laughing* My work is not that straight forward...

Elizabeth M. Johnson 17:08
That's saying a lot, actually, as to where I'm at right now. As you mentioned, and I think I feel like as I said, I think I said, I spent a lot of time as a trauma educator. So the bulk of my career has been spent working with trauma survivors in some capacity. And so the course that you were talking about, Larissa, was the "When Survivors Give Birth" class, which looks at how, how trauma affects women in pregnancy, childbirth and postpartum period. And so I used to spend a lot of time doing that and talking with both healthcare professionals and lay people, advocates and allies and other folks who wanted to kind of help or who work to support that population. And then I got away from that more recently, because for many reasons, I really kind of wanted to look at this idea of not just how trauma is affecting childbirth, postpartum, or intimacy or anything else, but like how it's affecting all of these other pieces, because I feel like we talk a lot about people being super resilient and you know, what's in the past is in the past days. And that's, that's not really accurate in some ways, but it's not the whole story. And I think that's really kind of an important sort of piece to kind of think about. So it's important to look at how trauma affects our present day, and then moving to work to close that gap if it feels like it's not...if you feel like you're not where you want to be. But the more that I kind of dug into this, and the more honestly, I was trusted with people's stories - again, thinking about it, like a power dynamic. what it means to talk to someone about your trauma history, and then to tell the other pieces that you might not be asked or maybe would be willing to share the pieces of how like you know, systems of oppression kind of get in there, and how there's these other isms that really are contributing to the challenge, or the pain of everyday life. So there's there's culture and there's the conditioning, there's all of these other pieces that fit that feel really important to kind of acknowledge. So right now a lot of what I'm doing is writing and talking and I do sometimes work with people one on one about like, what are these things that are kind of like what is getting in the way of the "yeses" and "no's " that you want to be offering whether it's an authentic Yes, or whether it's more of a strong sticky boundary No,. And kind of bridging that gap but looking not just at how trauma plays a role on that but how all of these pieces play a role in it. Because sometimes I feel like society kind of defaults to like, okay, so y'all need to set better boundaries, you need to go to bed earlier you need to move more, you need to eat healthy quote, here's my air quotes and all these things that's put on you to make all that stuff happen. Where ... you do a really good job of acknowledging, Larissa, that there's a lot of systems work that is not acknowledged that needs to be done in order for you to kind of get to feeling more supported. And there's absolutely things that we can do as individuals, but we can't neglect to mention the systems piece of it, which is really crucial. So that's kind of where that kind of where I'm coming at things from. So I feel like our work really intersects a great deal because we're both looking at systems of oppression as part of the work that we do, and part of this whole big experience of what it means to be living in this world at this point. So we'd like to take these these ideas and kind of feel like, boil down, make them practical. Whether it's like for you and making teaching other movement teachers how to make their spaces, more soft. I love that expression, or, like, more accessible to everyone or it's me and like, how do we set a sticky boundary, not just talk about it, but like, get some language around it and understand how all these other things are working against you setting that boundary?

Larissa Parson 17:13
Yeah, yeah. I want to say that soft space, by the way, I think that's a Sonya Renee Taylor thing, also. I feel like I watched her do a Patreon video about that. So I want to, as often as possible, we are going to try to acknowledge where our source material comes from. And I will be really open that a lot of the time I integrate source material and then forget where it came from. So we'll, we're gonna do our best to do that. Yeah, Elizabeth, I really appreciate - I think that your work sounds very clear and coherent, by the way. So we wanted to do a podcast, because we kept going on these long walks, some of them even on a beach, and talking about this stuff, and talking about where all these intersections were. And we wanted to have a place where we could share those thoughts and those ideas and let you process them on your own time, in your own way, in your own comfortable, soft space, without feeling like you have to engage in the conversation right away. And without feeling like you have to in any way out yourself in ways you don't want to be outed. Let's say you're watching our Instagram live or something like that. You know, we want to make sure that you get to process things in your best way and time. Do you want to say anything else about that, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth M. Johnson 22:29
I just want to add that I feel like this is just one way that we can kind of like level that power dynamic that we've talked about. Like I feel like in an Instagram live, it is very clear who was leading things and who is watching things.

Larissa Parson 22:45
Yeah.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 22:45
And of course, you can always engage like people in the Instagram live, but like, you know, put your comments and questions in the comments field. But here in a podcast space, there's there's a lot more, I feel like for me anyway, coming from this, let me speak for myself, there's a lot more intention around like. Okay, this is a dialogue between you and I about things that feel important that to us, but also we think maybe important or helpful for other people, and they can engage in the way that they want to. and they can submit a question anonymously, or they can share it anonymously, as you said, it's so there's just there's this feels like, I'll go out on a limb and say this feels like a little bit more trauma informed. It just feels like a little bit more intentional, I hate to say curated, but you know what I mean. That kind of ... it feels more intentional.

Larissa Parson 23:35
Yeah! Yeah, I totally agree that it feels more intentional. And the word that popped up while you were talking, to me is thoughtful, that we want to have this be a thoughtful process and a place to refine some of our thoughts on some of this stuff, too.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 23:53
Yes, yes, yes.

Larissa Parson 23:55
Yeah. So what are we going to be talking about Elizabeth?

Elizabeth M. Johnson 24:00
Um, so from my end, one of the things and from my end really means like, these are all ideas that you and I have talked about already and that we both really feel excited and energized by so things like #yourrightpeople. that is one of the biggest things that I talk about all day long. I love talking about it. So including things like right relationships, but also including, broader community, who I think about like how I make decisions. we don't ever make decisions in a vacuum. We are influenced by so many things. And part of that is that community and that's community like all of it, like that's even our social media connections. That is our right people, but that is also like co-workers and, and all of the things that people expose ourselves to. So your right people including right relationships and community. Impact of trauma. You know, that's never kind of like a one and done and I feel like it's always important to revisit that because it's a continual. conversation. So that'll be coming up for me. Myth and allure of perfectionism. Because that's something that I feel like we can't ever quite talk about enough. And of course, like, I think I said, broader community. So those are some things that I that feel relevant for our conversations that we have a lot in common with to unpack.

Larissa Parson 25:23
Yeah, yeah. And then maybe also on that list, which we've said about 25 times already is the intersectional, and systemic lens on all of that.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 25:34
Yes, thank you.

Larissa Parson 25:35
Yeah. I feel like so much of your list is in many ways my list because community is one of the things I love to talk about. Perfectionism is one of the things that I am constantly talking about, and pushing back on. In my own life, too. I feel like you know, we're, we're not coming at this with like, well, we figured all this out in any way. It's like, whoa, I'm sitting right there with you with that perfectionism. I also want to touch on things like pleasure, and joy, and embodiment. And in fact, how pleasure and joy are these embodied experiences that we can have. Body liberation is part of that, or maybe pleasure and joy are part of body liberation, really. And what the heck even is body liberation? Especially in a trauma informed scenario. So what are we talking about when we're talking about that? What do we talk about when we talk about having a body? All of those things. And, and so, so much more.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 26:44
I love all of that. Because, you know, as we've had these conversations, I'm like, Yeah, what do we mean when you say having a body? The trauma survivors are over here like... what? So love that. And yes to all of that, like a big plus one, especially the pleasure part and the joy. Pleasure and joy, yes.

Larissa Parson 27:04
So I think maybe what you can expect every time you tune in is

Elizabeth M. Johnson 27:11
right

Larissa Parson 27:11
Yeah, that we're going to check in with each other. We're going to share what we're reading, which we didn't share. Maybe we should share that when we're done. Share what we're reading... We're going to share the thing we're talking about that episode, we're going to wrap that up. And then we're going to share what we're eating because we are both big readers and big eaters. And all of that is super important to us. Anything else you want to add to what people can expect when they tune in, or where to find us.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 27:42
Um, nothing to add. I love to encourage people to do what works for them. So if you like the very beginning, when we're talking about what we're reading, and don't care about anything else, go to that part, and then skip the rest of it. And if you want to only tune in to the main piece of it, I say skip ahead and do that. Just like I say, don't finish a whole book, if you don't like where it's going, or you don't really want to read it. Just give yourself the space to quit something and to be done with it or take the piece that you need. I feel like that's really, really important. And so that's something I'm a huge supporter of. Does that sound good, Larissa?

Larissa Parson 28:23
Oh, that's great. I'm just I'm over here ecstatic with joy about that whole permission giving to stop reading a book, because it took me until I was in my 40s to give myself permission to stop reading a book I didn't want to read anymore. So, y'all! You can stop reading anytime you want.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 28:40
You can and consider me my eighth grade English teacher, Tom West, he of the cowboy boots and big hat. And I loved Mr. West, he was wonderful. And he would say, give a book like 30 to 50 pages. Give yourself something so you can feel like "yeah, I experienced some of this and it's just not..."- although I would say from a trauma perspective, if you are feeling triggered by any of the content you're reading, put it aside and choose to come back to it later on or put it aside forever. That is like you always take good care of yourself first. And if you want to put it down, put it down. I love that. Yeah, big fan of that idea. A big enacter of that idea - someone who does that on the regular.

Larissa Parson 29:26
Same.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 29:27
Here we go. So okay, so let's see. So stay in touch. So this is where we're wrapping it up. Stay in touch with us on Instagram. Follow us @wonderminepodcast, that's Wondermine podcast. And you can find us wherever your podcasts are located. That's really an odd way to say that. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts on a regular basis. So if you're listening to Ear Hustle, shout out Ear Hustle, go to wherever that is and look for Wondermine and we will be there. And yeah, you will be hearing from us again soon. Anything else, Larissa?

Larissa Parson 30:08
What are we reading and eating this week?

Elizabeth M. Johnson 30:11
Okay. Just love it, there's a little bit of a curveball, love it. What am I eating this week? See, this is why this needs to come in the beginning because now I have no bounds. Like I can talk about this for 20 minutes... I'm somehow thick in the middle of many memoirs, I mean in the past couple of months, which is super interesting. And I'm reading Ashley C. Ford, 'Somebody's Daughter'. She is writing a memoir and kind of centering her experience a little bit of what it was like to grow up with a single mom who's dad is incarcerated. So that's something I'm reading and really enjoying. Eating in my house is a lot of apples, we went apple picking. So we've got a ton of apples. And so I'm making things with apples and eating apples. And it's fall. So that's all beautiful.

Larissa Parson 31:07
Perfect, that's great.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 31:08
What about you reading and eating?

Larissa Parson 31:11
I am currently reading a, I guess would be a fantasy novel. Can't remember the author's name. It's called 'The Blade Itself'. And this is the first time in, I don't know, months, for sure, possibly years that I have read a book that is mostly about men.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 31:32
Oh!

Larissa Parson 31:32
Like, where men are all the main characters are two women who are also interesting characters. But most of the chapters are told through these men's voices. And I'm like, I can't decide if I like it. And I can't decide if it's because I'm tired of listening to these men talk to themselves. But it came recommended by a couple different people. So I'm sticking with it because it's pleasant enough. And because it's due back at the library in about six days and I like a challenge.

Yeah, I could put it down. I haven't decided that it's I need to put it down level yet. It's just I'm going to see. And then eating all the texture. You mentioned apples and I think that I am going to go make myself a plate of apples and cheese as soon as we are done recording and just have that crunchiness and the saltiness together. I'm so delighted for that. Yeah. And a little bit of sweetness.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 32:39
What kind of cheese?

Larissa Parson 32:40
I don't know, my mom sent me a bunch of cheese as part of my surgery, recovery care package.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 32:46
Wow.

Larissa Parson 32:48
I'm not sure what it is. But there's like some sort of, I think it's a really dry Gouda or something like that. We'll see.

Elizabeth M. Johnson 32:57
Yum. Okay Thanks, everyone for listening. I'm signing off. I'm Elizabeth M Johnson.

Larissa Parson 33:05
And I'm Larissa Parson, and we will talk to you again soon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Wondermine

Episode 1: Introducing Wondermine!

Listen to this podcast on