Why We Need to be Resilient to Protect Our Homes

February 21, 2022
27. Why We Need to be Resilient to Protect Our Homes

Pete Gaynor shares his years of experience in disaster management which includes working at FEMA to his current position as the Senior Vice President and Director of National Resilience, Response, and Recovery programs for the LiRo Group.  Pete is a former FEMA Administrator and Acting Secretary of Homeland Security during the last presidential administration. He has great insight into why we need to become more resilient to survive major disasters. The best way to reach out to Pete is through Linkedin. 

Here are some important moments in the podcast: 

 At  6:37 What is the primary issue you are working on?

At 15:30 Why don’t people take disasters as seriously as they should?

 At 22:20 Disasters seem to bring out people that want to take advantage of the victims?

Special Resource Links:

Earthquake:  https://www.engineeringforchange.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/fema232.pdf

 High Wind: https://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/ssttoolbox/qdm2sqxtml/F-C-HWG20.pdf

 Designing roofs to withstand heavy snow: https://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/ssttoolbox/qdm2sqxtml/F-C-HWG20.pdf

 Hurricane Resistant Construction: https://redshift.autodesk.com/hurricane-proof-construction-methods-can-save-buildings-communities/

 Flood Resistant Building Techniques: https://www.dewberry.com/insights-news/post/blog/2018/10/18/five-prominent-flood-resistant-building-techniques

 Fire Resistant Construction: https://www.dewberry.com/insights-news/post/blog/2018/10/18/five-prominent-flood-resistant-building-techniques

 Fema Resources:

Important information from Homeowners Be Aware:

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/homeownersbeaware/

Website: https://homeownersbeaware.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-siegal/

If you'd like to reach me for any reason, here's the link to my contact form:

https://homeownersbeaware.com/contact

Here's the link to the trailer for the documentary film I'm making: Built to Last: Buyer Beware.

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Transcript

George Siegal: 0:00

Tell Us How to Make It Better is partnering with The Readiness Lab, the home for podcast webinars and training in the field of emergency and disaster services.

Pete Gaynor: 0:08

You know, the cost of disasters, the intensity of disasters, the continued cycle of disasters that we've been in for the past, probably 20 years. At some point it becomes unsustainable. Right? You know, when, when is that next disaster that's so big that we can't right. You know, the federal government, they can't write the check for it.

George Siegal: 0:29

I'm George Siegal and this is the Tell Us How to Make It Better podcast. Every week. We introduce you to people who are working on real world problems and providing actual solutions. Hi everybody. Thank you for joining me on today's. Tell us how to make it better podcast. If you've listened to any of the podcasts, or if you've seen my documentary film, The Last House Standing you know, that I'm very big on people understanding the risks of where they live and what could happen in terms of major disasters, because it's a life altering experience that many people never recover from. So when I can have a guest on that is an expert in the field, I think it makes for a great show. My guest today is Pete Gaynor. Pete is the senior vice president and director national resilience response and recovery programs for the LiRo group. And is, the former FEMA administrator and acting secretary of Homeland security during the last presidential administration. During his time at FEMA, Pete led the agency's response to more than 300 presidentially declared emergencies and major disasters. And during the historic year of 2020, he oversaw FEMA's first ever operational response to a nationwide pandemic while simultaneously responding to a record number of disasters as a member of the white house coronavirus task force, Pete directed FEMA's operational coordination of the whole of government response to COVID 19. Pete, thank you so much for coming on.

Pete Gaynor: 1:54

Thanks. George it's good to be here.

George Siegal: 1:56

That's a lot. You were in some tumultuous situations before we get into the reason I had you on, what was that all like for you being caught up in all that stuff?

Pete Gaynor: 2:06

Yeah, it's I'm not, I'm not sure how it all happened. I think just like maybe the wrong place, wrong time or right place, right time. It depends how you look at it. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, unplanned, I think, you know, I went down and it helped my friend Brock I'd be the deputy and then, some things changed and then, COVID hit and we had, probably two of the worst fire seasons and hurricane seasons in history on top of that. And you know, it's you know, you're, you're in a special place. The nation's actually asking you to do not just me, but the entire FEMA organization, they're asking you to do impossible things and somehow through really hard work and really great people, you rise up and you do it. And so it was an honor to be down there to what, to help the nation through that early pandemic.

George Siegal: 2:51

Yeah, I imagine it's very difficult to be in a job where you're criticized for everything. And, and when FEMA is involved, you know, I made a documentary film called The Last House Standing and we featured Brock in Brock Long in the film, FEMA is in such a thankless position, going into a disaster because people are devastated, their lives are turned upside down. And if it goes, there's no really going well. I mean, it's just, it's it just seems like a thankless job.

Pete Gaynor: 3:17

Yeah. So I tell people, and so I've been a local emergency manager and a state emergency manager and a federal emergency manager and you know, FEMA or whatever state or locally working, you know, it's the only agency that has emergency in his title. Right. So you, you know, it's not going to be, you know, it's, it's not going to be good. And that's kind of, that's kind of our forte, right? W when disaster happens we, we stand up and, and we do what we're, what we're tasked to do. And that's bringing relief to disaster survivors. You know, these days from pandemic to hurricanes, to you name it right where we're in, that we're in that mix. And, and so it, so from time to time, it can't be a thankless job because everyone wants it. Perfect. And a disaster is in chaos and this business is an imperfect business. But you do your best and I'll I, and I, and I've, I've told this to other people you know, I'll match any one bad story with 10,000 great stories about what FEMA or emergency management has done to help those that are in need those disaster survivors. So yeah, you have to have a really, really thick skin. I, one of the things I did in D.C never listen to media because you'll you'll go crazy. And, and I think sometimes it may prevent you from doing the right thing when you listen to what they're saying, I had to just get you off track. So, you know, stick to your morals, stick to your, your integrity, do the right thing. And, and hopefully it all comes out with a plus sign.

George Siegal: 4:43

Yeah. I think the media naturally just looks for the bad stories. You know, they very rarely gravitate towards the good ones, you know, and I used to go around talking about the media to groups I would say, if you have a nice family of five or six people living in a house and everybody's, you know, they go to church, they, they do their jobs. They're A students, nobody cares, but all of a sudden dad gets caught with a hooker. Mom is a drunk driving. The kids set fire to something. It's the lead story of the news. We want to see bad things happen.

Pete Gaynor: 5:14

So, and that's probably human nature, right. We, I guess maybe we take pleasure in somebody else's misery. I don't really get that being in the misery business. Right. You want, you want to kind of relieve all that. And, and so, you know, just the, the, like the ground floor of all, this is the FEMA administrator travels a lot. Right. You know, to and from disasters all on most spot while on commercial airlines. And so I did a lot of traveling across the country from disaster to disaster. And, you know, typically I'm wearing my FEMA gear, my FEMA's shirt, and they don't really know who you are. But in an airport, I I've had dozens of people come up to me just randomly. And just like, and they're not thinking me, me personally, but the thanking FEMA for everything that they've done for a brother or a sister to cousins in some previous disaster I've never had anyone come up to me and say, you know, you guys are, do a terrible job. I think a hundred percent interaction that I've had is people that really appreciate FEMA or emergency managers doing the thing that, that you know, not many people want to do or can do.

George Siegal: 6:16

That's great. And that's so important. That's, it's great to hear that. Now what I'd like to do with this podcast, one of the reasons I started is we identify problems and we talk about people that are solving them. And I think that's so huge rather than just complaining about things to actually make a difference. So what would you say is the primary issue or problem that you work on?

Pete Gaynor: 6:35

I mean now?

George Siegal: 6:36

Now in your day to day.

Pete Gaynor: 6:37

So yeah, so I worked for a company called LiRo and basically it's an engineering architecture company project management, construction management. We don't do construction, but we do the, the, you know, the management, all those things. And we have a disaster business, disaster recovery business. And you know, one of the reasons I joined is to build a more resilient nation right. And because. if you don't invest in, you know, pre disaster initiatives like brick building, resilient infrastructure and communities, the new program at FEMA. We'll just make investments in, in trying to make the next disaster a little less impactful to your, to your neighborhood or to your state or to your town or your city, then, you know, we, we get into this cycle. So you know, how do you promote best practice for instance, building codes, right? You know, in order to have a more resilient home, right? It's just a simple concept. You have a more resilient home, you have to have a design and you have to build it to a code that can withstand the hazzards where you live. So whether you live on the coast, you live in earthquake country, you live on, you know, in flooding flooding section of the country, you know, what can you do to make your house more resilient? Retrofit it because that's where it all starts. Right? If you can just, if every, if every homeowner in this example just did a couple of things that make their home more resilient, buy flood insurance for instance, you give your, your, your family a little more insurance, when the, when the bad day comes that I think we would all be better off as a nation. Right. And you know, right. You know, the cost of disasters the intensity of disasters the continued cycle of disasters that we've been in for the past, probably 20 years. At some point it becomes unsustainable. Right. You know, when, when is that next disaster that's so big that we can't right. You know, the federal government, they can't write the check for it. So I think a lot of smart people have done a lot of work to say, Hey, let's make these, this let's make these investments in disasters, disaster resilience, risk reduction ahead of time, because we know we're going to spend, you know, 10, 20 times the amount when the disaster happens, so let's get smarter. So again, I think that's where my, my head is. That's what my effort has been is, you know, how do we become a more resilient nation? And it's a big word. It sounds really great to say, but actually doing it is really hard.

George Siegal: 9:04

Yeah. I would think that that may be a more daunting task than what you were dealing with at FEMA. And the reason I say that is all the effort that goes into from the building builders lobbying to keep codes lower in, in Mexico beach, which we featured in our film. I think the wind rating for building houses was 130 miles an hour before hurricane Michael. So they raised it to 140. But they were hit by a category five hurricane. So you already know that a bigger storm can hit yet they didn't rebuild to survive that. Why does that happen?

Pete Gaynor: 9:38

Because we love status quo in this country, right? We don't want to be upset by new rules, new regulations. And, and again, I think it goes back to human nature. We just want, you know, I think most people just want to live their life the way they've been living it. And they don't want to, you know, any added heartache or expense in doing anything different. But I started my life as a local emergency manager. And, you know, I know you've heard the saying that all, you know, disasters, you know, start in end locally and it's absolutely true. And so, you know, the federal government is not going to mandate has no authority, mandate, local building codes. It has to start at the very, very bottom of the, of the pyramid. Right. And if you can have strong building codes, you can give into your city council, your town council that it's in the best interest. Of your community economically, right? Life and death, property preservation. If you can convince people that it's the right thing to do, then they'll do it. And Mexico beaches are really a great example, right? They had, they probably had the worst, some of the worst the lowest building codes in the nation. And I think now if you went back now you would find out that they probably have some of the strongest building codes in the country only because they know how bad it can be. Right. They they've been, they've been beat down by a, a hurricane that changed their way of life. And now they've seen the light, the tough thing that I think everyone struggles with is they think, Hey, this is never going to happen to me. It only happens to people on TV. It doesn't happen here. I'm not sure why you want me to do this at, at, you know, maybe at some expense to me. So you have to really try to convince people, Hey, it is, it is in your best interest. It's in your community's interest to make these small investments. So you can go on and live your life the way you want to. Right. But there's some give and take in that. And, and, and again I think like 65 percent of, you know, counties, cities and towns don't have a modern building code. And why is that? I mean, I don't necessarily know, but, but you need to keep the pressure on your local elected officials to change those things.

George Siegal: 11:39

But in, in the case of Mexico beach wouldn't it made sense to say, let's take south Florida's building standard. Let's build to withstand a hurricane, a category five hurricane, as opposed to a category three, maybe, maybe a four. So that was a perfect example. It's like with what they went through there, it was just, it was one of the most unbelievable scenes I've ever seen with all the destruction and the people's lives that were turned upside down. And that's not even calculated in the cost of damage is how your life is disrupted and how vulnerable you are after a disaster. So if ever there was a situation where they could have built back to a higher code, That seems like it should have been it?

Pete Gaynor: 12:16

Well, I mean, I think it's lack of imagination on a lot of people's parts. So you've been down there and I've been down there to Mexico beach. And you've seen the pictures of before it's a wonderful place to have a beach home, right on the water, small community. Right. Very tight knit, a lot of old families down there that, you know, pass on those, some of those homes generation to generation, and then you go, then you go back after and it's nothing but flat concrete pads. Like there's no homes down there. And so how could you have convinced the homeowners pre pre hurricane to like Hey, this is what your community is gonna look like. If you don't do anything. Yeah. How do you get people to like see that vision and take action? It, it, it takes, it takes a lot of work. Some people down there, I mean, there weren't many homes that withstood withstood the hurricane, but there were some homes down there that built a code, you know, they were, they were elevated off the ground or they had you know, reinforced concrete that allowed that home to stand. And you look around it. You know, 99% of the homes are going there's a couple down there that took action. Well, imagine if that was the other way around, right. Mexico beach would, you know, they would have recovered in a matter of weeks if that was, if that was the case.

George Siegal: 13:28

Yeah. And so I don't understand that. I think they could have built back to a higher standard. I fear for what would happen if they got hit by another one. And if we look at Louisiana, was it last year? It was two years ago. They get hit by four hurricanes?

Pete Gaynor: 13:43

Yeah. Lake Charles and surrounding parishes there really took a beating from Laura, Delta. I've lost track. I think, I, I think I've always, was in Louisiana so much I got to pay taxes last year on all my business down there, but yeah, but, but, but yeah, it's, it's human nature. And how, and what's the trick to overcome human nature? I don't know if I figured it out then I I'd be a hero, but it just takes pressure and it, and it really starts, I think it starts with building codes, right. That if you can change building codes, then you can actually actually build to a more resilient state. And it doesn't cost that much more. I mean, I'm looking at some of the stats. If you build like a $300,000 house, You know, one and a half percent of that total, you know, 45, $5,000 is, is dedicated to, you know, more resilient building, hurricane straps and all those kinds of things. It's not, it's not expensive, but you just have you know, you have to realize that you need to do that because it's in your best interest, your family's interest , your community's interests.

George Siegal: 14:42

Yeah. And you know, I think guys like you, that are experts in the field and, and, and people that I read, the stuff that they post online, I go, well, these guys understand it. Cause they're doing it every. But we were in Moore Oklahoma, where it took four or five major tornadoes for them to finally change the building code there. I was amazed by how many people there did not have a storm cellar. So we went around, figuring out, trying to find out how much they cost and it ended up, you could get one for 3,500 bucks. You could finance it with very low interest yet a very small percentage of the population had it. Why do you think that is? Because if I lived in Oklahoma, that would be a must have, you see what happens there and the damage that tornadoes. So they, they did the right thing. They finally changed the building code and it has saved structures. But people still don't seem to take it as seriously as they should?

Pete Gaynor: 15:30

Yeah. I mean, I guess I think it goes just the human nature, right? It's not going to happen. Right. It's only this, these, these things only happen to other people and it hasn't happened, you know you know, let's say that you're 65 years old. You've been living on the planet for 65 years in that community. And maybe it's happened a couple times. Never happened to you directly. And you just say, well, it's not, you know, the odds are, it's not going to happen. I'm just going to, I'm just going to try to beat the odds while I'm here on the, on the planet. And, and in some cases that may work for you in other cases not so much, right. Because you've seen the devastation across the country, whether it's from a tornado or flooding or wildfire, it's, it will it'll change your life forever, right? It will, it will completely change your life forever. And I'm not sure if people realize that . So, and just to like to pound on some of the things that are head scratchers, I went to flooding in Tulsa, Oklahoma a couple of years ago and a really nice neighborhood, you know you know, water, you know, on the, on the river. and it flooded. And it probably flooded there before but not like this. And so you walk around the neighborhood and houses are completely gutted. All their belongings are on the front lawn. Right. It's all going to the landfill. And then you start talking to people about, you know, Hey, hi, you know, do you have flood insurance? No. Okay. So that means you're not getting anything from the federal government you know, the national flood insurance program, not getting any money from the federal government to help you rebuild your house. Homeowner's insurance doesn't cover you for that kind of flood. And then you run into people that say, well, I don't even have homeowners insurance. Like the house, the house was passed down to me. So I have no flood insurance. I have no homeowners insurance. And I'm not really sure what to do. Right. And this is like a middle-class neighborhood. This is, you know, this is just like middle class America. And then you have to scratch your head about how could you, how could you allow that to happen? But, I mean, I, you know, as head of family, how can you allow a insured home insurance to lapse on your structure that was at, at, at risk of flooding, right? Because again, you're not, you know, most likely maybe you get back in that house with the help of friends and family, but maybe you're, you know, maybe you, you, you, you have to move to something sub-par right. If you can, if you can have that vision of what, what it can look like then maybe you'll, you'll do something different. And that, and again, I think that's the story. You have to keep telling them, right?

George Siegal: 18:01

Yeah. I mean, I that's one of the things I was talking to the folks at FEMA about is. I think that should be the driving message. And if it already is, excuse me for not having seen it marketed places, but the pre disaster preparation I think is where a lot of the attention should be. And in when we were in Malibu, California, after the big fire there. There were people that had old cars that were valuable collector's cars, but they weren't running. So they didn't have them insured. Coin collections, a lot of things in their houses. And those are the things insurance might not even be able to replace them, but at least you would get something. But I think people go, nah, I spent the money last year, but we didn't have anything bad happen. So I'm not going to spend it this year.

Pete Gaynor: 18:43

You know, I, I w I wish I could take people to disasters, right? Like the average, average American citizen. Right. And, and, and like, live like in like take them to their that disaster. And, you know, you mentioned fires. I was up in, I forget what neighborhood it was, but turn neighborhoods in California after one of the fires in paradise paradise. And then there was another community that we went to paradise. Unbelievable. Right. But we were, we were walking through this neighborhood. And there was a fire department. You know, so the whole, the whole neighborhood is burned down. The only thing that the only thing that survived those fires are like gas grills and bicycles and things that are made out of metal cars. Right. Even cars don't survive that well. And there's a homeowner who is with the help of some local firefighters is sifting. They have these little square woode n trays with a wire and the bottom of it. And they're sifting through a shovel full at a time, their entire household to try to find something like a family memento, right? Whether it's rings or a watch or something. But essentially everything else in that home, right from the, from the roof to the cellar is Ash there's, there is nothing left of your life. And you're trying to sift through tons and tons of debris to find, you know, hopefully find that momento maybe that your grandmother gave you, it will, it will crush you, right. If you were there, if you were there doing it. So if you could take, you know, American taxpayer in the moment to go see. We would change. We would change the way we look at disasters and preparing for disasters.

George Siegal: 20:20

Well, that's why I wish I that's what I'm trying to get more people to see my film because we give them story after story. There's a family in Malibu that they had four fireproof safes that melted during the fire and ruined everything. The only thing that survived on their lot was a pizza oven that they had imported from Italy. And the woman said, I wish I had kept my jewelry in the pizza. It might've survived, but it's heartbreaking. And then some people go, well, they're rich. They can afford it. No, nobody can afford that. That the things you lose, you can never get back. It's just heartbreaking.

Pete Gaynor: 20:54

Yeah. You walk away with nothing. I mean, you, you walk away with the, you know, the, the concrete foundation, that's, that's all that you have. And then, you know, good luck building. Have you been to some of those, those communities like paradise Santa Rosa, you know, building back after, after a fire or a major disaster. It is, it is long, a long haul. If you're a homeowner, right? It is it's it's, it will, it will break your spirit.

George Siegal: 21:20

So what people found out in Malibu was because the code had evolved over the years, you could only build back the exact footprint of your house. If you wanted to start right away, if not, you had to go through the whole permitting process. So if you wanted to get that view or you wanted to have your house facing a certain way, it wasn't a slam dunk you could get away with it.

Pete Gaynor: 21:39

Yeah. I mean if you could, if you could only inject people with some of that, right. You know, as a, as a a vaccine against, you know not take an action, we'd be, we'd be better, but It just you know, it takes all of us beating the drum to get that through people's heads.

George Siegal: 21:57

Yeah. I agree. I think it's very hard to get people to, to, to get out of that way of thinking. And another thing they don't think about too is after the disaster, all the low lifes that come in and then rip them off and take advantage of them. And we saw numerous examples of that in Panama city and Mexico beach.$10,000 to throw a tarp on your roof or assign your insurance benefits over to us and we'll make sure your job gets done. And then they disappear. One guy ended up in jail who was actually showing us around. I mean, this just brings out the low of the low.

Pete Gaynor: 22:30

Yeah, it's it, it is heartbreaking. Right? So you're paying $10,000 for a blue roof with a, with a army Corps of engineers will do it for free. So, so like, how did that happen? How come you didn't know about free roofs. Right. Or, you know, a program to keep you safe you know, through your local community to make sure that every contractor has a license that comes in, right? There's this, there's some really proactive communities out there, but what you're right. You know, you're already bent and broken from the disaster. And now you know, people come in to take further advantage of you and set you further behind. So, you know, listen, this is I think we had an answer for all of it. You know, we, we wouldn't be talking today. And it takes just again, beating the drum about what you can do pre disaster to make yourself more resilient and how to keep yourself safe or should a disaster happening and get back to whatever that new normal is quicker. And, and the speed, the intensity of disaster is just keeps coming and coming and coming in. And in some cases it's hard to, it's hard to catch up. I mean, I, and I'm speaking for FEMA, right? Hundreds and hundreds of disasters pile up and a recovery is a long grinding path for, for everyone to include the federal government right down to the homeowner.

George Siegal: 23:41

Yeah. I wish there was a way that could be incorporated into the statistics of a disaster is the pain and suffering after the disaster because people's lives, you know, the media leaves to go onto the next story. And then those people are living in that hell for years.

Pete Gaynor: 23:57

Yeah. You know, there, there are disasters on the books. You know, dating is so federal disasters did, you know, probably dating as far back as the year 2000 still as the FEMA administrator, I was approving expenditures for Katrina and Katrina was 2004 and was still spending money on Katrina. Right. And so let's do the math on how many disasters we've had since 2004. I don't even know what the number is. Right. But it's hundreds, maybe even a thousand of federal declared disasters and we're still paying for all those, again, it becomes unsustainable. And so where's the balance between what the federal government can do for an individual and what an individual can do for him or herself. Right. So again, all starts locally. Champion those building codes and make sure. You know, if you have to retrofit a house or you're building a new house that you're building to standards again, to keep your family safe and that's essentially what it is, right? How do you keep your family safe and out of harm's way? Well, it's in this case, we told them about natural disasters. This is, this is about building codes and, and you know, building to standard or above standard.

George Siegal: 25:05

Yeah, that was the primary message in our film is it's really starts from the bottom up that every homeowner needs to be their own best advocate, because truly nobody's looking out after you, your builder is counting nickels when he builds your house. And unless you ask for specific things, I don't think they're going to do them. And if they proudly strut and say, we build to code need to check what the code is and see if the codes even enough where you live.

Pete Gaynor: 25:28

Yeah. And so, you know, I, I think, you know, I wrote this post a couple of weeks ago about, you know, building standards and it came to me one day because I'm about to build a new house for myself and you know, wouldn't it be embarrassing, right. Just like personally embarrassing. Well, the former FEMA administrators house for the roof to blow off. Right. That would be embarrassing. It would be personally professionally embarrassing for me. And then, so I said, oh, let me make sure that, you know, when the, when the builder gives me all the specs, that he has all these things that, you know, building, you know, straps and connectors and tie all those things that don't cost a lot of money. but will make my new home you know, more resilient. Am I getting impact resistant glass in my house, right? Is that part of my new build? So there's a lot of things. So it just, it made me wonder like, oh, a lot of people are either retrofitted and building a house. So let me, let me help. Let me help myself. Right. And because I seen how bad it can be, could only help some others by pointing out some things that are you know, Cheap to do easy to do. And with some forethought, you know, it doesn't really add too much money to, you know, again, whether you're building a new house or retrofit or a new house or looking to buy a new house to see if those things are a part of that part of that bill. So lots of, and there's lots of resources out there that you can go to and get free help from.

George Siegal: 26:48

Did the builder run when he saw you coming, knowing that it's going to have somebody watching him who actually knows what they're doing?

Pete Gaynor: 26:55

I probably haven't. I pro I don't have a builder yet. Right. So I'm still in the planning process. But I'm sure when I lay out all my demands, I'm sure the builder will have to swallow hard a few times.

George Siegal: 27:07

Yeah. I mean, I, I'm going to give an expert like you one piece of advice only because I've gotten kind of screwed every time I build or buy a house. Is you got to watch those guys every second. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean just every second. So in your opinion, when we take the problem that we've been talking about is that all these disasters, all this, all this rebuilding and all it keeps happening again and again, how do we make it better?

Pete Gaynor: 27:32

Well, I mean, so the, the, the first thing, and I'll just talk about some just basic, basic things that, you know, anyone can do today. You know, I forget the exact stat, but you know, 95% of the counties in America have had flooded in the past year or so. Right. So that's virtually it floods over. So just because you don't live next to the ocean or live next to a lake or a river doesn't mean that you can't flood look at, look at hurricane Harvey in Houston, right? How, how widespread that flooding was and and, and the impact that it did, right? Those people that got flooded that were far away from the flood zone never had it never had an idea that it could flood. And so, you know, get flood insurance. It's it's, you know, the average the average premiums like $700 a year. And I know for some that may be a hard thing to do, but you're trying to protect your investment. Right? You have to have car insurance, you have to have a car to get to work and do all those things that we all do. So, you know, protect that investment of your house, your greatest investment, while it may cost you a little bit of money but, you know, hopefully it it keeps you in your house and again, gets you back to normal quicker. You know, I, I think the other thing is you have to educate yourself about, about what's around you, but what's the, what are the risks where I live and how do I reduce those risks and mitigate those risks? So on I'm ready for the next thing that happens. A lot of these things are not are not high cost kinds of things. But it really is awareness and taking the initiative to again, protect yourself and your family from these things that will happen. Right. And so, and then you have to believe that it can happen to me. Right. It's it can't happen to me. And I need to take action at.

George Siegal: 29:23

I mean that, I think that's, that's so well said. Is that understanding what the risks are, where you're buying that house instead of getting wooed by the, the bells and whistles, the granite countertops, maybe they have some nice special carpeting in there, or they painted recently. But it's the structural things about your house. Where could that flooding come from? Flood insurance isn't that expensive if you don't live in a flood zone? Yeah. I just think that people are reluctant to do this, especially in a competitive real estate market where you feel like if you are too questioning and demanding, they're just going to go onto the next guy.

Pete Gaynor: 29:57

Yeah, I, you know, and again, I, now these stories come back, I, I love as a FEMA Administrator to go out and talk to people. And I visited this and I won't, I'm going to not going to name the, the state or the, or the locale. But, , I talked to a woman who lived right on a lake, like on a lake that flooded and it had just flooded. And I asked her, Hey, do you have flood insurance? Nope. I said, , I said, will you get flood insurance for the next next storm or next flood? Nope., why? Because I don't need it. I, and some, like some of the law, like the logic in it, I'm not sure what the logic was that I've been flooded at least once I, I had to pay for whatever damage has happened in the first. I could get flood insurance that cover cover me much to a much greater degree, but it's still not going to do it. Right. You know, whether it was, I don't trust the program. I don't trust the government. I don't, I don't believe in insurance. I don't know what it was, but it is kind of a, head-scratcher where it just happened to you. Right. It happened to you and your neighbors and you still refuse to do things that are in your best interest. Now. I don't think it was a matter of like how much it costs. Right. This is a pretty well to do neighborhood. I don't know. Some things are baffling to me sometimes about, it seems really obvious about what actions you should take to protect yourself and your family. And some people just refuse to do it. I don't know. I don't know why I'll just do, but you know, there's a, there's a majority out there that just won't do it.

George Siegal: 31:21

Yeah. I don't understand that at all. Why people don't, it's their, it's their biggest investment. Yet, they probably put more money into things that completely are irrelevant in their lives. When I lived in San Antonio, Texas, we had the effects of a hurricane, a lot of rain in 1998. And people that live four or five miles from a river were flooded because of how high the water came up. And I just don't think people think about that. They don't look at a map and go, Hey, there's a dam, five miles up the road from me. What if that breaks? Yeah, we just don't think..

Pete Gaynor: 31:57

Yeah. And, and, and, you know, the, the, the federal system is, is at odds with itself, right. It really is. You know, we, we haven't really, we don't really have a law or a policy about repetitive, like, so I'll pick flooding, repetitive flooding or repetitive disasters. You know, I, I live in a, I live in a flood zone. I get flooded. FEMA comes, I get some money to build my back, build back my, my house or life better. I stay, where I am. Nothing changes with local code. It floods again, same cycle. Right. I get money from the federal government. It floods again, I get money from the federal government. So we're not, I mean, speaking on, on, you know, from the federal FEMA side, we're not helping ourselves with some of these programs that just logically don't make any sense., but again, if you're a local elected leader, , or, or, , you know, , you know, Congressman or Senator., telling your constituents that, Hey, by the way, , FEMA's not going to cover you anymore. You know, maybe that's, maybe it's a bridge too far for elected officials to say that right. To actually disincentive some of the things that we do. Right. So, you know, we have some, I think the federal government has a things to do to kind of change that dynamic. But if, you know, FEMA will be here or the Federal Government here to kind of, you know, give me money or give me resources. and I can stay right where I am then maybe that's the easiest path for people, but we need to fix some things I think, at the federal level to kind of change that dynamic.

George Siegal: 33:23

Yeah. A great neighborhood to look at. I live in Tampa, Florida, and so they're rebuilding a lot of houses. So a lot of older houses that are at ground, you know, sea level elevation, flood levels, 10 feet. and so you see a brand new house way up in the, in the air and then houses next to it that are, you know, are going to get flooded. And if you just want to wonder, do these people have flood insurance, are they thinking about it? Are they saying, well, then that'll be our indication to finally rebuild. Also a lot of people putting wood on the second floor in an area that's prone to hurricanes there's apartment buildings built down the road from us that are all built out of wood. It's like, are they not hearing the message?

Pete Gaynor: 34:06

It's a head-scratcher sometimes right?, could you, could you build out of more, weather resistant, , material like concrete reinforced, concrete,, or, you know, a combination or, you know, better engineering standards to, to make that thing survive? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe, maybe it's, it's cheaper to let it, you know, let insurance cover it and rebuild it. Maybe it's cheaper that way. I don't know. But logically I think to me and you and most people, it makes no sense.

George Siegal: 34:34

Yeah. We know some people whose house was flooded a few years ago from, I think it was a tropical storm that hit this area. So they're rebuilding and I walked by there the other day and they're doing the second floor wood. and you could see how they kind of have it bracketed on there, but I was explaining to my wife. What are they doing? They know that this is a bulls-eye for a hurricane and there, it just, it leaves me scratching my head. Anyway, the reason that I found you, I had seen you on TV back in 2020, but you posted this article on LinkedIn. It was a post that gave a bunch of resources for people that I just thought was fantastic because it covered earthquakes, high wind designing roofs, flood resistant. What motivated you to do that?

Pete Gaynor: 35:17

Yeah, I, I think, , so I I've always been, , like a pro , building code, right. Modern building code, right. From as far back when I was a local, especially at FEMA seeing like the, like the impact of a disaster on a, on a, on a community that has no building codes. Right. It's, it's, it's sad. And, and it's completely avoidable if you took some action. And then again, like I said, I'm about to build a new home and it's like, Ooh, I need to make sure that I'm doing all the right things, because I know I can in my head. Right. I, I I've been to floods, hurricanes, fires, you name it. I've been to all of them earthquakes. And I see what, what happens to communities to a home that's improperly built engineered, , and, and, and more importantly, it's really not the structure itself. It's what happens to the people that live inside of it. Right. Does my wife want to live in a shelter for six months? It's not happening. Right? My, my, my wife is not going to put up with that my family is not going to put up with it. I don't want to do it because I've seen it. So what can I do now? And so that's what kind of motivated me because I'm actually in the process of doing it. I kind of want to make sure that I share all those resources out with people that may be in the same., same circumstance or thinking about doing it, or they can share that out with people that are doing it., but again, all three resources., that are out there available from both the federal government and from the private sector who have an interest in all this you know, Flash is out there, , Fortified homes is out there. You can find all those things online and again, free. And, , you know, look at those specs, hand to your building and say, are you building, are you building this for me?, , you know, when you build a new home or retrofit a home, a new home, are you doing all these things that we should be doing? And if the answer is no, then you need. You need to take a serious look at, , you know, specs and, and the, the end result you don't want to, again, you don't want to get yourself in a jackpot when it's avoidable for, , for a small amount of, of money.

George Siegal: 37:17

I think it let me answer for them right now. And the answer in most cases is probably no., and you have to demand it. You know, when we were in, , Maura, Oklahoma, the builder we interviewed when they changed the building code, I think it added, they said a dollar 50 per square foot to the cost of construction, which she said was roughly adding granite countertops. And I said, what would have people have chosen if they just had the choice between granite countertops or the higher code? And he said, most people would choose the granite countertops. And that tells you everything you need to know. It's like, we're our own worst enemies as home buyers, because we don't demand more. We let them get away with it. And as long as we don't hold them accountable, they will continue to get away with it.

Pete Gaynor: 37:58

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. But again, I think it all starts with education. If you can arm people with that information and kind of make them see the light, then maybe they'll then make a different choice. Right. Maybe they'll they'll, , get a low grade counter and do the other thing, or just, or just say that investment of 1.5% of the total cost of the house. I'm going to make that investment,, to make sure I can stay in the house, you know, , without interruption should a disaster occur. I mean, that's, that's kind of it. So education, I think is, is key., making people aware of what's out there, , what they can do on their own. So whether or not you have strong building codes right in your community doesn't really matter. if you're, , educated, you're made aware,, you have the resources you can build to whatever standard you want to build. Of course it costs a little bit more money, , but don't let the lack of building codes determine your future, right? You should, you should arm yourself with good information and demands., you know, whether you're doing a retrofit or new, you know, a building a new house or buying a new house, that these things are part of, , the future of your, , your, your, your life and more importantly, the future of your family, right? Because it's not necessarily about the building, it's really about your, about your family, but the living people that are going to endure the pain and suffering that will come with a bad building codes.

George Siegal: 39:17

Yeah. I mean, I encourage everybody to watch I hate to plug my own film during your segment, but to watch The Last House Standing and to see just how, how bad it is for people after a disaster. And I certainly want to follow up with you and see how your house comes out, because you can kind of be like the heart surgeon that you see eating the big fatty steak, smoking the cigar, and you're going, wait a second. He should know better. Yeah. Yeah.

Pete Gaynor: 39:41

So now, like I'm really motivated now to make sure it all gets done, right? Yeah. Maybe I'll maybe I'll Chronicle my house build and, and, and demonstrate all the things that I invested in. Yeah, so, and, and I, and honestly, is it going to cost me more money? Yeah, it will. But listen, it's from what I've seen in my life, it's the, the, the, the amount of money is inconsequential to the, the, the results that you will endure if you don't make that investment. And again, I think that if you get people to see that, right, you people would spend that money without a blink of an eye.

George Siegal: 40:19

Yeah. The worst part of making our film is just seeing the pain in those people's faces that are just steamrolled by a disaster. It's like, there's that glazed look you, you've probably seen it way more than I ever will.

Pete Gaynor: 40:32

It's heartbreaking. Right? It's hard because you know that, you know, you know, I mean, I'm getting back into my air conditioned car and I'm going to my air conditioned hotel and I'm going to get on a plane and go back to my home, right. That's still standing and I have running water. I have air conditioning. I have electricity. I have all those things and you'll leave. You'll leave those people behind it. It is, , is, is it is gut-wrenching right. So I think back to my earlier point, if I could just take, you know, , those people that haven't been impacted by disasters and transport them real time until the disaster into the shoes of a disaster survivor while they're shoveling out, a shovel at a time looking for their, their life mementos, you, you would change the way we look at disasters in this country. I mean, I don't know how we can do that, but, , it really is, , really is quite important that people understand what's at risk.

George Siegal: 41:26

Yeah. I think it's going to take a lot and you know, and even we see it when in the rebuilds. I don't think they're doing enough and it it's, it's scary. It's scary to see. And unfortunately it's going to keep happening. So if people want to get in touch with you and get more information about you, what's the best way for people to reach out to you?

Pete Gaynor: 41:42

Yeah, you can just, , I'm on LinkedIn. I'm not, I'm not on Twitter., I gave that up., I'm not on Facebook. Never was., so I'm a, I'm a LinkedIn kind of guy., my contact information is in there. You can either send me an email, , or a direct message., feel free., and I I'll try to be helpful where I can.

George Siegal: 42:01

Awesome. And I'm going to put all those resources that you had in your article, in the show notes for this podcast, because I think it's huge for people to be able to click, to Fortified, to be able to go to all these different resources. And, , that was a great job putting that out there. Pete, thank you so much for coming on today. Best of luck with your house. I will, I will. Now I'm going to have to Chronicle the whole thing. Now. Now, when you got me thinking. That could be a documentary film right there that would be worth watching.

Pete Gaynor: 42:25

It could be good.

George Siegal: 42:26

All right. Thank you. Thank you for joining me for today's podcast. If you enjoyed what you were listening to please share the link with your friends so they can become listeners too. And if you have any questions or comments, there's a contact form on our website tell us how to make it better.com. You can give me your thoughts about what you were listening to or suggestions for guests for future programs. Thanks again, we'll see you next time.