Tell Us How to Make It Better

Coaching You to Reach Your Full Potential

May 17, 2022 George Siegal Season 1 Episode 38
Tell Us How to Make It Better
Coaching You to Reach Your Full Potential
Show Notes Transcript

May 17, 2022
38. Coaching You to Reach Your Full Potential

Great advice from a woman who climbed the corporate ladder and is now using that knowledge to help others navigate the workplace. Genesis Amaris Kemp empowers others to speak up for themselves. She is a trailblazer who wants you to live out your dreams, goals and visions. She tells it like it is.

Here are some important moments with Genesis in the podcast: 

At 5:17 Genesis talks about the challenges of being blunt when it comes to dealing with clients. 

 At 11:51 What are some of the obstacles that come up working with your clients?

At 15:56 Tell us about your book, Chocolate Drop in Corporate America?

You can follow Genesis through the following links: 

 Her website: https://genesisamariskemp.net/ 

 Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/genesisamariskemp/ 

 Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/genesisamaris.kemp.3

 YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa6LolDbQt37eSsotGUtSyA

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Genesis Amaris Kemp:

I don't have time to sugar coat stuff. I just need you to get your job done and do it effectively. So just having that background, having the direct and the bluntness, but also having that sweet side where we could be all laughs and giggles. But when it comes time to getting something done and being about business, that's what I'm going to be about because I'm going to push you as hard as I need to in order for you to take action, because we're in this together, it's a partnership. And if you came to play, then you could go play on a playground because I'm here to drive results.

George Siegal:

I'm George Siegal, and this is the Tell Us How to Make It Better podcast. Every week, we introduce you to people who are working on real world problems and providing actual solutions. Tell Us How to Make It Better is partnering with The Readiness Lab, the home for podcast, webinars and training in the field of emergency and disaster services. Thank you for joining me on this week's Tell Us How to Make It Better. Every week on this podcast, we'll try to introduce you to people who in their job or in their life is doing something to try to make the world better. Now, for those of you that have jobs, and maybe you're having problems in your job, trying to climb the corporate ladder or problems with someone at work, it can be a pretty frustrating experience. So that's one of the topics that we're going to talk about today is that particular issue and what you can do about it. My guest today is Mrs. Genesis Amaris camp, a visionary life coach, motivational speaker, founder, and host of GEMS podcast, and the author of Chocolate Drop in Corporate America from the Pit to the Palace. Genesis. Thank you so much. Hey, there it is right there's the book.

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

I thank you so much, George, for sharing and holding space with me today.

George Siegal:

Oh no, I appreciate you coming on now. I like to ask right off the bat are the, the premise of my podcast is making things better. Tell us what you're doing, the problem that you've identified and what you do that tries to make it better?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

So one of the problems that I help others identify is really knowing their worth and understanding what their purpose is, because there are so many people who are fueled by what other people want them to be, that they fail to connect with who they are. And what makes them unique and authentic, which is tied to their mission and their purpose while they're here on earth. So with me being a visionary life coach, one of the ways that I work on that is you have to start by having a vision, having a vision of where you want to go and end up, and then we reverse engineer it back to where you are now and what action steps do you need to take to fuel you to get on with really living out those dreams by making them become reality.

George Siegal:

Now I want to ask you this because I find this fascinating. When I started a podcast, somebody said, Hey, there's millions of people that have podcasts, good luck. You just better hope that you can reach one person and feel good about it. But since I started it, I've been approached by millions of people who are also coaches that have podcasts. So how competitive and challenging is it to be a coach of anything and to, to reach out and touch people and, and affect them? I mean, it seems like that would be very difficult thing?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

It, it can be challenged. But one thing that I like to do is not try to go with the wave. I like to just really be my authentic self. And so people who work with me, they're like, oh, Genesis is a firecracker, but she also cracks the whip and she's very direct. And I think that comes from me spending 15 years in corporate America, 12, which was in oil and gas and energy and energy, which is a male dominated field where we're drilling million dollar wells a day where trying to pump out a lot of stuff. I don't have time to sugar coat stuff. I just need you to get your job done and do it effectively. So just having that background, having the direct and the bluntness, but also having that sweet side where we could be all laughs and giggles. But when it comes time to getting something done and being about business, that's what I'm going to be about because I'm going to push you as hard as I need to in order for you to take action, because we're in this together, it's a partnership. And if you came to play, then you could go play on a playground because I'm here to drive results.

George Siegal:

No. I love that. I love people that are really blunt. I've been accused of that many times. I'm sometimes criticized for saying exactly what was, what was on my mind. And it seems like in today's world where people are so sensitive and they're so empowered to think, oh, that person has offended me, or, oh, they've told me something I don't want to hear. That it seems like this is a really tough time to be blunt because it's not always received the way we intend to have the message go out.

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Absolutely. Cause I've been told like from the work setting, oh, you're aggressive. Some of the engineers don't want to work with you. And I was like Would it be a different response if I had a male anatomy, because my counterpart could say the same exact thing and he . Gets seen as go getter confident overachiever, but I say the same exact thing and I get seen as bossy aggressive or not so nice words like the B word or whatever. And I feel like, you know, people need to stop wearing their heart on their sleeves because sometimes being direct and blunt is definitely going to help you go a lot further versus someone just lying to your face and telling you something that makes you feel good, but it's not challenging you to rise above where you are. It's not making you step out on faith. It's not making you really take that next step because all you hear is those feel good rhetoric messages, but where are you? You're in the same spot you were in a year ago. That's not transformational.

George Siegal:

Yeah. I would think people would really appreciate it. Because you know where you stand, there's not, you know, if you're just sugarcoat and patting people on the back and giving everybody a participation trophy they really have no sense of how they're doing as opposed to the reality of look, you're not doing your job as well as you can. You're not showing up on time. You're not communicating with your coworkers. It's just seems like people are so coddled now. They're more interested in a safe space than they are in hearing the truth.

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Absolutely. And one thing I would add, I'd like to add there George is if something doesn't scare the hell out of you, it's because you're dreaming too small. Like your dreams should scare the hell out of you. And you should want someone to give you feedback and constructive criticism because it shows that that individual cares about you and they see the potential inside of you. They just need you to see it in yourself. And so I tell people, yes, I'm a coach, but I'm not everybody's coach, just like, you know, you're not always going to be everybody's cup of tea and that's okay. Because then if I was trying to do that, I will be trying to be a people pleaser versus being a self pleaser. And if I'm a self pleaser, then I know what I bring to the table. I know the value I add. And then I know how best to work with my ideal avatar, because I don't want to be just a watered down coach where everyone thinks, oh yeah, I already know what Genesis is going to do. No, I want to personalize it for that individual.

George Siegal:

So give me an idea of the kind of client that you would have. How that would evolve into what they would come to you for and then how you would work with them?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

So some of the past clients I've had are people in higher education because I do a lot of work in the DEI space, which is diversity, equity and inclusion. So I had one client who was working for one university and she really wanted to make effective change within the diversity and equity space. So she was already seeing me online and stuff. We had a relationship, but it wasn't in debt. But she said, what really made her solidify working with me is that I was consistent and I was constantly putting out content around that subject matter. And then whenever she came to me, she told me, okay, this is a problem that I had. And I said, oh, it sounds like you have some mindset blockage and some paradigms. Why are you afraid to speak up in certain meetings? Is it because you don't have the seniority? And I asked her the questions to make it personal to her so I could see where she was mindset wise because some of the biggest things that I work with my clients on is overcoming some of those mindset limitations, those barriers and stuff. Because if you don't get your mind in alignment, your mind is not going to allow you to walk out those actions. So that's one, one client, another client of mine was having a hard time navigating their career. And since I've already had success navigating my career because I started over my career twice in the oil and gas field. And both times I was at the very bottom of the food chain. So the first one, it was a smaller corrosion company, George, where I started as an imaging clerk. And when I left there, I was at HSE manager, which is health, safety, and environmental. Then I went on over to the big boys. So the fortune 500 space, I started as an administrative assistant. And then I left there. I was doing trade regulations and compliance coordination for a commodity PE, which is polyethylene. And I had the corporate Amex. I had the limos picking me up. I had, you know, the nice hotels and all of the bells and whistles, but had I not know my words and the effectiveness of networking within the company and using, using it to my advantage, I wouldn't have ended up in that role. So she wanted to know how did you a person of such a young age? Cause I'm only 30, who's been working for 15 years navigate your career as fast as you did. So I kinda gave her the playbook and she was in a different industry, but I said, you can apply this to any industry. You have to get your base job done. What type of stretch opportunities are you going to do, which are opportunities that are outside of your base job. So is it volunteering for nonprofits that your company sponsors, is it doing work in another group outside of your main group? Networking. Do they know you for who you are and the work that you've produced and how you parent. Are you raising your hand and asking questions or are you just sitting back in the cut? Because people don't always remember the silent person in the room. They remember some of the people who even ask the dumbest questions because you're like, seriously, that was such a dumb question, but they remember the people that speak up, the people that are out there. And then of course, I walked through some other things with her, so it just varies.

George Siegal:

Okay. Here's a dumb question. You're talking about 15 years. You said you were 30. So you started working at 15?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Yeah. I started doing a co-op program in high school and so my very first job was real estate. So I was a personal assistant to a real estate broker for Remax preferred homes.

George Siegal:

Okay, well, thank you for using such simple numbers that I could do 30 15, and I was able to, to figure that out all by myself. So what are some of the biggest challenges that you find you come up with in working with people? What would be considered an obstacle that prevents things from always just rolling right along?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

One, the money paradigm. So sometimes when I tell people my prices, they don't want to pay those prices, but I'm. This is, you know, this is my experience. This is my livelihood or whatnot. And I do offer payment plans, but I can't lower my prices because it's my livelihood. Just like, if you go out to a nice steak house, you can't tell them, oh, I'm sorry, I can't pay for that Tomahawk. Or that filet me on. No, you get what you paid for. Another thing that I run up against is, you know, me being if I go back to the oil and gas industry, the example there is be a young minority woman in a male dominated field. That's ran by older. Guys, it's kind of hard to break into that space and really to be seen as well as heard. And so you really have to kind of play the game and get in where you fit in without compromising your morals and values. It's what I tell. Women, because if you're a woman you're already a minority in that field, and then you add on a woman of color. And then with me, I'm first generation American. My dad was south American. My mom is west Indian. So she's Caribbean descent. That was also a added layer. So that's two challenges. Three, I am very vocal. I know what I want, how I want it. But I'm not going to allow somebody to dictate the level of my success because at the end of the day, there's more than enough room at the table for everyone. And one of the way that I started to use that, to just really build credibility on what I'm doing is my podcast, because I talked to various people from all over the world with unique backgrounds, because my mission is to bring education to the forefront. To inspire and motivate people. Because if we focus on our commonalities Georgia versus our differences, you could see how we could really build those centers. Yeah, I can totally relate to the money aspect because being a documentary filmmaker and in, in, in the video production field, people always think you can lower your price. They always think you'll match somebody else's bid. They think that once you have a film, why don't you just give it to us? Because you've already made the film. You don't need to make any money off of it now to pay off any debts or anything that you might've incurred during the project. So I agree. You hold to your price. When somebody tells me you gotta lower your price. I say, okay, what do you want to do with. In in the project, you want to shoot it in one day instead of two, do you want one camera instead of two? No drone, no lights. I mean, you got, if you just lower your price, it makes it look like you were ripping them. Okay. So one of the things I like to ask people, I ask them, so what do you like to do? And I'll hear, oh, I like to have Starbucks coffee. I like to get my nails. Then I like to go shopping. I like to go out to eat and I said, oh, okay. That's great. So which one of those can you sacrifice for a period of time to invest in yourself for personal development? Because it's Starbucks paying you? Oh, ROI. Are your nails paying you ROI is going out to eat, paying you ROI. And if not, then maybe you need to shift your priorities a little bit. So you can really take time to invest in yourself and do something that is going to give you that return on investment. Our keywords are oh, and they're like, they're shocked. But think about it. We have what we have needs and. What you're doing is really a want, it's not a need. And that need is that need is not part of your necessity.

George Siegal:

Wow. I love the way you put that. That was that was really good. Now let's talk about your book. Excuse me. Chocolate drop in corporate America from the pit to the palace. Hey, there's that book again on screen .Now when I was reading about it, it seems like you cover a lot of stuff in here. It's initially in the title, I thought it might just be dealing with what it was like as you were talking about as a female and a minority in a male dominated business. But there's a lot more to the book. Tell, tell us about what's going on in there?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Absolutely. So I'm going to break down the title and I'm going to hold it up in case this is a visual component. So do you see the title says chocolate drop in corporate America. People always ask what chocolate job. I said, well, You know, I wanted something fun and something that wasn't me. So I was like, I'm chocolate and who has ever just taken one piece of a chocolate bar and not ate the red? My chocolate comes in various forms. There's white chocolate, dark chocolate, milk, chocolate, smooth, crunchy. Semi-sweet bitter, all of that. And then I'm like, I work in. America. So hence chocolate topping in corporate America. Then the top, the subtitle is from the pit to the palace, because I believe in life, we go through those dark seasons, but it's those dark seasons. And that mess that curate our message. Or the test that produces the Testament and the testimony and one leg it's like, oh, it's like the Joseph analogy in the Bible from the pit to the palace. And I was like, yeah, that, that too. And the world represents that these issues don't just happen in America. But they happen worldwide. And then my book cover has people from diverse backgrounds as well as nationalities on it. Meaning that no matter what industry you you're in, we have all gone through something that was unfair. No matter what our race was, no matter what industry we were in, was it right? No, but what do we do about it? And on the back, I start with two questions, George, because I really want people to know that it's not just for minorities, but it's anyone. So I'm just going to read the back of the book. And I want you to answer these questions, George. So the first question says, what challenges in the workplace have you encountered that left you feeling as if you were miserable? The second one is have others who were unqualified, seemingly pass you by in the ranks. And then let me just read the rest and then be thinking about how to answer that, that the questions in our daily lives, we're all faced with various Childs, whether in the workforce or at home, however, when treated unfairly. It takes courage to stand and fight for what's right? No matter your race, nationality, ethnicity, or background, you can rise to be the game changer. When you use the power of your voice, you shake the atmosphere and caused a domino effect because others will choose to either follow suit or stand in solidary. On the pages of chocolate drop in corporate America, Genesis that's me y'all has chosen to speak up for not only minorities, but also anyone who has been slided on the job in any way from her personal testimony, you will learn how speaking up brought awareness, so that long lasting change to be made. We do not win by remaining side. Overlooking injustice and continuing to practice or judgment. We win by standing together, engaging in those difficult conversations, which now I say courageous conversations and helping one another let's work together to create change for future generations. Because it's not just about Genesis. It's not just about Dorje, but it's about how can all of us share our stories and what are the commonalities in our stories to make this world a better place.

George Siegal:

You know, did you want me to really answer those questions or were you just,

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

I do want you to answer them.

George Siegal:

As somebody who was in the broadcasting field. I was in the TV news business for almost 15 years and it's such a subjective business. I felt slighted many times. I had a boss who thought he was out of the George Steinbrenner school of handling people that would call us into meetings and yell at us and insult us and, and just be as rude as you could possibly be to another human being and out of fear of losing your job, you had to take it as an employee and you really couldn't do anything about it. And then I was in other jobs where there was an opening above me that I thought I was right for. And for whatever reason, didn't get it. So there was all kinds of slights. So I kind of felt like a, I guess a pinada of employment in the broadcasting field, because there are things that are beyond your control. There's an, it's probably the same in other businesses. I just don't have the same experience in that. But feeling slighted or mistreated would be very common. And then I also had some great bosses that I think made me a lot better at what I did, but it was is a up and down climb.

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Absolutely. And I'm so glad that you shared your experience because it goes to show that no matter who you are or what industry you're in, there is some way that you're going to feel slighted or you're going to be passed over for whatever the case may be. And when you ask for that feedback and you ask for them to tell you, they're not always going to tell you the truth, because let's be honest, companies want to make sure that they're not liable to be sued. So they'll probably say, oh, we've chosen to go with another candidate because they were more qualified. When in actuality that candidate could have very well been, you know, someone related to them, it could have been a family friend or that candidate may have done some strange things for a piece of change. You just never know. And you just have to be willing to to just keep on going, despite, you know, hearing no, despite hearing the rejections that sometimes people get those no's and they get that rejection and they shrivel up and they take it personal. When in actuality it wasn't maybe personal. It just means that something's better in store for you. And that's okay.

George Siegal:

Well, I had one news director when I applied to his station. He he got on the phone with me and he goes George, last time I checked, you were a white guy. I have too many white faces on my newscast. I don't need another one. And it was like, whoa, thank you very much. That, that made me feel great. So it it's tough when you're on the other end of it. I hear what you're saying and it's like, you want to stand up for yourself in the workplace, but isn't there a fine line to where they can just consider you a pain in the ass and get rid of you because you're standing up for yourself or they think you're going to be litigious. And that's why you're fishing for that information. How do you walk that line?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

So, whenever you are thinking about that, you definitely have to be strategic. You have to know how to, you know, beat them at their own game. So I tell people, make sure you understand the policies and procedures around your workplace. Make sure. Hit them where it hurts their money. They don't want to lose money. And then if you know that you are a valuable employee, they're not going to want to see you walk out the door. Like, for example, when I was in my last role, it was a proprietary role and it was the first role that the company had ever created. So I was doing that role for three and a half years. So whenever we found out that the company was having layoffs and my degree is actually supply chain, they wanted to make sure that since I was getting laid off, that they didn't let me walk out of the door because it would be all that knowledge that I was retaining and there would be no one else to do it because there was no backfill for that position. So the way they got me to share that was say, if you do not stay until February 15th, 2021, You will not get your severance package. The company had a pension and there's a lot of companies that don't offer pensions anymore, or my paid vacation that I didn't take. So that was one thing. Another thing that really helped me with success and navigating to get into other roles was just making sure that I was showing them on paper. These are my metrics that I've met. This is how I'm complimenting the KPIs, which are key performance indicators. This is what I want. And then also doing my competitive research analysis. This is what other companies are paying someone like me. So definitely using that, but making sure that I had it in black and white where it wasn't just like a pipe, like a pipe dream. And I wasn't just spitting BS out there. Like I knew what my ducks were, and that definitely helped me. And I'm telling people, it may not work for you, but it may work for you. But I always challenge you to do your market analysis research, know what the competitors are offering, know what you bring to the table and make sure that you're a good performer if you're having all of these complaints, but you're not a good performer, I don't encourage you to do this because it's not going to work in your favor because you're late, you're late for work. You're not meeting those metrics. And then you're complaining all the time. What, what is going to make that company want to help you?

George Siegal:

Yeah. You know, I've seen that from both sides of the fence. I remember when I was a kid, my dad worked for IBM. And he did a lot. I mean, he was one of those guys that was just the hardest worker and he asked for more money and it was just a little more money. And they said, no. So he went out on his own and started doing something that he wanted to do. They had to hire three people to replace him. And so they ended up paying three salaries when they could have kept him for just paying a little bit more. And then on the other side of the coin, when I'm in the news business, I've seen people that thought they were indispensable. So they went in and asked for more money. They were let go. And the station never missed a beat because in the TV news business, almost everybody is dispensable and it's hard. There's a handful of people that probably truly have that value where they know if you go across town, you're taking the viewers with them, but most people don't have that luxury. So you don't have the kind of clout that you would, you would hope for.

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

So, yeah, so it definitely goes both ways. George and me, like I said, 12 years in oil and gas. Like you build a lot of connections and rapport over time, but different people based on like the different trade shows I went with, I still was very connected with my alumni community, with the university of Houston. And then I still did have like headhunters and different people that I was in connection with because one of my little step out activities was working with some of the college recruits that came in. So I got to know like, okay, who's bringing in the recruits. So like, if I knew who was bringing in the recruits, then I know where else they're recruiting for. So just definitely building that rapport. And then I partnered with the non-profits United way. I've done fall tournaments and different stuff like that. So I built those connections over time. So I knew if I wanted to leave, then I could definitely leverage some of my contacts.

George Siegal:

So the overall takeaway then from the book, is it more to have you develop an attitude of being an advocate for yourself and not standing in the corner at work, but taking active engagement in, in how you're doing in that company and how you can project forward in that company?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Yes, absolutely. Really taking ownership of your own career, asking those questions, being open to finding a mentor in some corporate settings, like they want you to have an advisor or an advocate, or some people say a sponsor, but you may not always know who your sponsor is, but if you find out a good mentor who can bat for you when you may not be afforded the ability to walk into certain rooms, they can mention your name, like in oil and gas, like we did a lot of. Rankings and those rankings were where we were ranked against our peers. And your next assignment, wasn't driven by you was driven by your manager. So if I had a really good sponsor sponsor, or I had a mentor that knew what my career aspirations were, they could easily put my name in the hat and say, Hey, she would be really good for this position based on XYZ.

George Siegal:

Yeah. And it's probably a lot easier to move up the ladder if people like you and your managers like you, then if you're a problem at work.

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Yeah, absolutely.

George Siegal:

Nobody wants, nobody wants to foresee their future, see their future going. I'm going to be with this person for the next 10 years. What a, what a joy that's going to be. So if you had to give advice to an entrepreneur or somebody out there. Okay. They recognize a problem in the world and they want to try to make it better, but they just don't think they can make a difference. What would you tell somebody to motivate them and give it a try to change things?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

I would definitely tell them, what do you have to lose? Because if you don't take that first step, then you would never know what you can accomplish because you're allowing fear and fear is a condition in your mind that causes you to remain stagnant or cripples you to the point where you're paralyzing yourself. That's one thing. The other thing I would say is know who you are, know what you, what value you bring to the table and how you can help others. And by knowing those, then you should be able to walk it out. And then the third thing I say is if you were to write your own obituary, how would you like your obituary to read? What do you want people to say that you've accomplished here while you're on Earth? Or do you want your dreams and your visions to die with you because you were so afraid to just take that step. And it does sound morbid, but it definitely gets people thinking because how many times have people written their own obituary, let's be real. Other people are riding it based on what you've done. So if you could get ahead of the curve and start with how you're laying that foundation and building that legacy and work backwards, then you could start to see, okay, where is it that I need to branch out? Where is it that I need to take action?

George Siegal:

Interesting. Very well. Very well put. So how do people get your book first off? Where do they find the book?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

So my book is on Amazon. So the second edition is paperback. The first edition is Kindal it's also on target Walmart, Barnes and noble, and some of the other brick and mortar stores.

George Siegal:

Awesome. And when I'm going to put it in the show notes, but if people want to follow you on social media, reach out because after, after seeing you or listening to you... If I needed a coach, I I'd be all over it because I love the way you are approaching this. How would they get in touch with you?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

So on Instagram and Facebook, it's at Genesis and that's G E N E S I S Amaris, a M a R. I S. Kemp. K E M P my DMS are open. I don't have a VA, so definitely slide in the DMS and let's have a conversation. I'm a human, just like you are. So don't be afraid to ask those questions. And then I have all my info on my website, George, which is Genesis Amaris Kemp.net, and I will give the first chapter of my book away for free. So just click on that book tab. And then also two other freebies. One is a health assessment, because what good is having wealth if you don't have quality health to enjoy the wealth that you'll aquire. And then the second one is a product it's like Kiani, sunrise which are super foods and super nutrients all in one pack that will definitely give you that energy that you need to sustain you to grab the day. Unlike a five-hour energy that boosts you up like a rocket, but has you crashing down and is not good for your system?

George Siegal:

Wow. So what do you do in your spare time? It sounds like you're one busy woman.

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Oh. In my spare time, I don't work on the weekends. So I allocate that time to spend time with my husband, my nieces and nephews. And now building out motherhood.

George Siegal:

Yeah. So that's coming up pretty soon. This will be a baby number one?

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Yes.

George Siegal:

All right. I got five. So you got some work to do to catch up. Hey, listen, Genesis. Thank you so much for coming on. I definitely want to check out your book.. And I appreciate your time today.

Genesis Amaris Kemp:

Thank you so much George.

George Siegal:

That's going to do it for this week. Tell Us How to Make It Better podcast. If you enjoyed what you were listening to, it would be really helpful for you to like the episode, share it with other people and even better subscribe so you can now receive it every week. In addition to that, there's also a contact form in the show notes that you can click on if you have ideas for future guests or if there's something you liked or didn't like about the episode, I'd really like to hear from you. Thanks again for listening. See you next time.