Unlocking the Complexities of Property Insurance Claims with Ron Snouffer

April 23, 2024

132.  Unlocking the Complexities of Property Insurance Claims with Ron Snouffer

Unlock the secrets of battling insurance companies and securing rightful claims with Ron Snouffer, an expert public adjuster, in this eye-opening episode. Host George Siegal delves into the murky waters of homeowner insurance with Ron, who shares his journey from insurance carrier insider to a staunch advocate for property owners. This episode sheds light on the deceptive tactics used by insurance companies and underscores the pivotal role of public adjusters. Tune in to empower yourself with the knowledge and strategies needed to navigate post-disaster insurance claims effectively and ensure your home and finances are protected.

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Transcript

George Siegal: 0:00

After a disaster strikes. If you feel like it's you against your homeowner's insurance company, you probably also realize if you have to go to battle with them. It is not a fair fight. They have deep pockets and high-priced lawyers. You and I have no ability to put together the same team. So what options do we have if we feel the insurance company isn't honoring the deal we thought we were paying for? Well, there is an option out there for you to consider that you might not have heard of. My guest today is Ron Snoffer. He's the owner of National Claims Negotiators, a public adjusting firm that property owners can hire to get what they should be paid after a disaster damages your home. I'm George Siegal, and this is Homeowners Be Aware, the podcast that teaches you everything you need to know about being a homeowner. Ron, thank you so much for joining me today. You're welcome.

Ron Snouffer: 0:52

I'm looking forward to doing this.

George Siegal: 0:54

Now, the insurance industry is a very challenging industry. Anybody that's ever filed a claim, anybody that's ever been involved with it, knows. I live in Florida. Just getting insurance is a challenge. So you're laughing. So tell me what you do and how you play a role in the whole insurance thing.

Ron Snouffer: 1:12

So I am a licensed public adjuster. I am an advocate for property owners, the consumer. I started out actually working for the carrier. I was a cat adjuster and I worked in hurricane claims and disasters and so on and so forth and I switched sides when insurance companies I realized were not paying claims properly and switched to the other side, which there's not very many of us actually in the country.

George Siegal: 1:40

So it's a good and your timing is interesting for that that. You had reached out to me because I'm making a documentary film called built to last buyer beware and what we're exposing in the film is one of the biggest things. Is is when insurance companies don't pay people or they do what you're saying they, they say that that's not $50,000 worth of damage, it's $10,000 worth of damage, and and and and from the other side. That's upending people's lives.

Ron Snouffer: 2:06

I mean, that's everything uh, I know several people that are in your film I would imagine you would.

George Siegal: 2:14

I mean they all. We had a great bunch of people on both sides. There is another side to this and we interviewed people you probably know on the other side as well. Um, I just happen to think that I'm concerned for the homeowner, for the victim. That's what I advocate for Whatever gives us the protection that we deserve. So why is this such a big issue? Why does it have to be such a big deal?

Ron Snouffer: 2:40

So it comes down to the fact that insurance companies are a for-profit industry, and so I used to work for Allstate and there's a book out there called From Good Hands to Boxing Gloves. That's kind of when it all started, and it started in your state of Florida. So what happened was Allstate decided they weren't going to pay a claim and an attorney had to sue them and was asking for documentation and so on and so forth. And an attorney had to sue them and was asking for documentation, and so on and so forth. Well, the documentation that he was looking for was how this all started, which was the McKinsey files.

Ron Snouffer: 3:12

Allstate asked the McKinsey group to come in and tell them how to make more money. And they said, well, why do you pay so much in claims? And Allstate said, well, to take care of our customers and so we don't get in trouble with the state and we get to keep selling insurance and so on and so forth, and we don't get sued. They said, well, what's that going to cost you? And the next thing, you know, it costs them less money to get sued than it does to pay claims. So they switched their entire mantra on being a consumer advocate to being okay, being sued on a regular basis.

George Siegal: 3:48

Now most people don't know that when they enter into the agreement and they get their insurance, you buy that insurance policy and you go. Hey, this is my protection here. If my house happens to get blown away or burned down or something bad happens, I'm covered. What can we be doing on that side? So I don't need you? Is there a way to understand that relationship better, going in so it doesn't end the way it quite often does?

Ron Snouffer: 4:19

So they've made policies so complex and so ridiculous that the average person can't read the documentation and understand what they do or don't have coverage for, even if they think they have coverage for, like, I talked to a customer this morning that I can't help out, they sent us over their documentation and they have all these exclusions in their policies so that they really don't have any coverage for the damage that they had. They thought they had a $25,000 deductible. In reality they had a 5% deductible and they had non-recoverable depreciation or it was an ACV policy because the roof's over 12 years old and so they have no coverage. By the time you add those two together, their roof is self-insured and so they have no coverage. By the time you add those two together, their roof is self-insured. And they had no idea. Their insurance company, their agent, told them they had a the premier package policy, so on and so forth.

George Siegal: 5:15

they're paying 177 000 a year for this policy and it's worthless, worthless so isn't there some grounds to go after the company that sold them the policy if it's under false pretenses? Pretenses, or is it? Well, you didn't read the fine print? Um, it's really on us, as the homeowners, to truly understand it. So we need to find an agent that we have confidence in, that truly points out. They don't just say this is what your policy covers. Show me where this is, show me what the exclusions are, because I know in Florida they're taking away sinkhole coverage. You have that wind versus water battle. The roof issue is huge. What kind of roof was on a house? I mean, there's just so many things. It just seems like we don't have a chance.

Ron Snouffer: 6:02

That's just it. Like I said earlier, they are a for profit industry and the more of a shell game they can play with policyholders, the better off they're going to be, you know, and having the right agent is very important, because I'm not going to say all agents, but a lot of agents are salespeople. They never read the policy, they have no idea what's in them, so on and so forth.

Ron Snouffer: 6:31

I had a really good friend that was an agent I'm not going to. He was with one of the big three, I'm not going to name them, but he would come to me and tell me how awesome their policy was, and then I'd have to show him in the policy Well, what about this, what about that, what about this? And he would be like that's not what they sold us, that's not what they told us they're selling us. And he would highlight the benefits of the policy because that's all they sold him, not any of the negatives. And what we're seeing now is these policies are coming in with less and less coverage on a regular basis and consumers have no idea they're not protected?

George Siegal: 7:10

We don't, and that's so disappointing. So the role of a private adjuster when you come in, do you have to be requested? You have to be requested by the homeowner, but doesn't the insurance company have the option of believing you or not believing you? Or is that then just the next step to give them a leg up in litigation?

Ron Snouffer: 7:26

So we're hired directly by the property owner, yes, and we're going to document everything that's supposed to be covered, based on the policy coverage that they do have. But, like with anything, if the insurance company decides to clamp down and not pay for anything or not do the right thing, they have that opportunity. But when you have a good public adjuster that knows what they're doing, the chances of that having to go to litigation are a lot slimmer, because they'd rather deal with us than attorney, because the good ones know how to document a file so that it will be seen in trial. And that's the important thing is we set every case up, no matter if we think it's going to be in front of a jury or not, so that it would if it had to be presented in front of a jury, and they'd rather deal with us than an attorney.

George Siegal: 8:18

Now it's. It's almost impossible to get true statistics out of like the financial office of insurance here in Florida. I've written them numerous times for our film and I never hear back from them when you guys get involved. Are there any kind of statistics of success versus beating your head against a wall, or is it hard to track that? I think it's hard to track that, but I think NAPIA.

Ron Snouffer: 8:40

You know, I think it's hard to track that, but I think NAPIA, the National Association for Public Insurance Adjusters, and FAPIA have some stats on that. I don't want to quote something that I don't know.

George Siegal: 8:53

Sure but.

Ron Snouffer: 8:54

I mean in our history on claims that we've been involved in. We've settled almost $200 million in settlements. We've settled almost $200 million in settlements, so obviously we've gotten a lot more money than what the insurance companies initially offered.

George Siegal: 9:11

And when you come out and go over a house that has damage and you saw that maybe the insurance company said, yeah, you have $10,000 worth of damage, and then you start going over everything and then it's 10, then it's 20, then it's 30. Then you need a new roof, then you need to jack up the foundation. I mean just so things just keep piling up. Do you lay it out in a way that the insurance company sees okay, we missed this, we didn't see that. How do they justify being so?

Ron Snouffer: 9:35

off? That's a great question. So I'm going to reference you back to 2008, when I was still an IA and working for the carrier cat claims. We used to get paid 25 cents for every picture we took. So we were incentivized to take pictures of all the damage out there on the property that we could not just to take random pictures of anything, but actual pictures of damage. Now they put a cap on it right when I left that you can only take 10 pictures.

Ron Snouffer: 10:18

Well, my file on a regular residential roof is going to be 150, 200 pictures of all the damage that we find out there and so that we can show the story of what really happened in that claim. And then we're going to document it using an estimate and a proprietary software. I'm sure you've heard of Xactimate before. We use the software, xactimate, to write up our estimate and then we're going to use codes, depending on what city it's in, and bring those codes in and manufacture builder's instructions and build a file so that it should be very easy for the insurance company to look at and go. Yeah, we missed this. Either send a senior adjuster back out there or just pay the claim.

George Siegal: 10:56

Now, if I go to my insurance company and they're difficult should I be contacting a private adjuster before I contact an attorney?

Ron Snouffer: 11:06

Yes. So most of the time if you hire an attorney they're going to hire a public adjuster. They have to have somebody who's going to go out there and do all the details and the cost estimating for the damage associated with the claim and review all the policy and so on and so forth. So we're also the first step because generally we're going to get a claim settled in a couple months, two or three months. Where you know, unfortunately, the legal system, you send out a 60 day demand and then they reject that and then you're looking at waiting however long it's going to be, depending on the court dockets for when you get in front of the court and depositions and so on and so forth. So typically you could be looking at a year, year and a half, two years on a court case or we might've been able to settle it in 60 days.

George Siegal: 11:58

How much do you guys take? What percentage do you get of the claim percentage do you get of the claim.

Ron Snouffer: 12:02

So that varies state to state. Here in Texas we charge 10%. Is the maximum that we can charge. In Florida they can charge 10%, I believe, during a storm event and then one year after a storm event I think it's 20%.

George Siegal: 12:24

I'm licensed there in Florida but we don't actively participate in Florida Too many insurance carriers are going bankrupt and the property owners can't be made whole. Yeah, we see that far too often. And then the thing they did recently with this rule out of the legislature where you can no longer get attorney's fees if you have to sue your insurance company. So even if I go to you let's say I have a $50,000 claim will I have enough money left to fix my house if I have to pay anybody? So the insurance company is already putting me, even if I go to you, and 10% is less than what an attorney probably would take. I think it could be as much as what third of what you um, what you collect, am.

Ron Snouffer: 13:06

I going to have enough money to fix my house. But yeah but here's the thing right now you have zero or 20%. Is 90% better than zero or 20%? I understand there there's a fee associated with it, but you can do all the same things that we can do as a property owner. But most property owners don't understand those rules. They don't know how to document the damage and put it into a package that, if it does have to be seen by a jury, they're going to win.

Ron Snouffer: 13:40

I mean, there is some expertise to what we do.

George Siegal: 13:44

Oh, there's no question. And if I want to be proactive on my end, isn't it a good idea for me to at least have a very accurate record, before the damage, of what I actually had? So you have a better chance of coming in and then stepping into the situation? If I have pictures of the paintings and the TVs and the washers and dryers and all that stuff, does that help if I have my stuff ready before you come in?

Ron Snouffer: 14:10

So it makes my job so much easier. There's stuff where you can be proactive and the majority of the people that are proactive and have that documentation in place, those claims are settled much faster, much easier than the people who are reactive and don't have a clue where anything is. They don't know where their receipts are now all burned up. They don't know where the documentation is on the materials that they use to build the house or what their furniture costs for the flood or the fire or whatever the case may be. You have to be proactive in order to help yourself in a claim.

George Siegal: 14:52

To what level and how can you gather some of that stuff? If I was to walk around my house, I might know what my computer costs Well, just taking pictures. But if I have a picture of my TV, is that enough for the insurance company or do I have to have an actual receipt? The same for the washer and dryer, the sofa? I mean, how deep of a record do I need to have?

Ron Snouffer: 15:12

So you don't necessarily have to have receipts for all that stuff, but if you have pictures of everything, that's a lot harder to dispute. You know, I was talking to a gentleman the other day that he got hit by a tornado and the insurance company was asking for pictures or receipts for all his tools that got spread across the county because the shop that was next door to his house did get leveled and threw tools miles and miles away from his house. It's like I've been a carpenter for 20 something years. I've bought that stuff over my lifetime. I don't have two pictures or receipts for all of it, but he had a ton of pictures, so that's easier to overcome then.

George Siegal: 15:56

And the best time to do that is on a sunny day, when there's no stress and you're not running around going. What do I do? What do I do? Everybody could take an hour or two and just go around and photograph the heck out of their house and put that in the cloud, so it's never lost it's easy.

George Siegal: 16:18

Yeah, you would think that would be. Now, when you look at the kind of things that go on in Florida, texas is kind of like the Wild West, though. Builders get away with all kinds of stuff in Texas and they make it very clear you can't sue them, you can only go to arbitration. So you're kind of up against it. You get a crappy builder and then you have to go to your insurance. I mean, does that make your job more difficult, difficult, or does it just give you more business because there's more damage every time there's a storm?

Ron Snouffer: 16:43

so we we're in the hail capital of the country, right here in uh, dfw. So every seven to ten years I would say somebody's going to get a new roof and probably going to get siding and new windows, but I mean the, the quality of workmanship. I wouldn't say um makes it worse, uh, as far as the amount of claims or anything like that, because I mean last week we had three inch size hail sweep across the metroplex and, uh, we had three of those storms last year. I mean, when tennis ball size hit, tennis ball size hail hits anything, it's going to damage it yeah, I used to live in san antonio, texas, and they're a little more weather immune than last week too sure, but dallas is right on that boundary where you can get snow, you can get hail, you can get more likely to have tornadoes.

George Siegal: 17:42

I mean it's pretty scary. There's a lot of stuff to keep you busy.

Ron Snouffer: 17:45

That's why I live here.

George Siegal: 17:48

But it is a beautiful area.

Ron Snouffer: 17:50

It is.

George Siegal: 17:51

The trade-off.

Ron Snouffer: 17:52

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to do here in Texas. I mean, everybody apparently wants to come here. I just saw this morning that we're up to 8.1 million people in the Metroplex. I want to say when I moved here 25 years ago, we had less than 3 million.

George Siegal: 18:07

And that's just today from coming across the southern border. No, just kidding, but you know. So I think, when you look at when you, when the when built to last, buyer beware comes out, I think what people are going to see is and I don't want to just throw builders completely under the bus, because there are builders that do a great job, oh yeah, but there's a lot of stuff that's built that is not built to last and you wonder what the thought process is. And then when you add that together with insurance, that doesn't pay. So now I have a crummy house that was poorly built, that I overpaid for and I don't have insurance, so it just almost makes it not worth owning property.

Ron Snouffer: 18:46

So I've actually had my real estate license for since 2001,. So almost 25 years, and I can tell you, like what you're saying, there has been a lot of builders come and go over the years that are doing the bare minimum requirements here in Texas in order to get by with building something. But it also goes back to affordability too. You know, if you're going to put in the house that's going to last a lifetime, it's going to be a lot more expensive than the average consumer can afford.

George Siegal: 19:23

Well then I say, slap a disclaimer on it and say that this is a disposable house, that this is seriously, this is temporary housing. Don't don't tell me that it's built to code so it's going to last. I now know, if you build to code in Tampa, florida, it's not going to withstand a category four or five hurricane. The same thing goes where they're rebuilding Mexico Beach. They're not rebuilding to withstand the disaster that wiped them out, and I just think that's insane.

Ron Snouffer: 19:50

Now we got had a couple of clients that were on Sanibel Island. We didn't go out there to, we referred them to somebody else there in Florida. But I mean it was pretty devastating. One of them had just retired to Florida and life savings into their house and it was gone within six months of them moving there.

George Siegal: 20:09

Yeah, Sanibel Island was probably one of the most beautiful places you would ever see, and it just does not look the same now. I mean, it's just there's a layer of this brine stuff on everything. The mosquitoes were everywhere and I know they're going to eventually come back, but it's going to take a long time. So somebody that wedges themselves in there in a retirement situation they have nothing to fall back on.

Ron Snouffer: 20:32

Oh, they already sold their house and moved. So they were devastated. So they moved up into Georgiaia. They couldn't handle the the weather in florida well, I got news for them.

George Siegal: 20:44

They get bad storms in georgia too, and and what we're seeing is you go, okay, I, I don't want to own a home, I'm just going to be a renter. Most of florida is now building wood apartment complexes. What? They're wood. If you, if you go to right, right like a mile from my house, there's a bar right on the water called the salt shack. Right next to them, four huge buildings, all wood, directly on the bay where the storm surge would be most likely to come in from, so it's not elevated. There's a parking garage and then it's four stories of wood. And then throughout Pasco County, throughout Fort Myers, in fact, people are. I did a post on Reddit and people were saying almost every city they've been in in Florida has wood apartment complexes. Your reaction pretty much said what you think about that.

Ron Snouffer: 21:39

I just thought Florida's building code was so much further ahead than what Texas was. I mean Miami-Dade has some of the most hardest building codes in the country.

George Siegal: 21:53

I figured most of Florida would be in the same region as that. You would think they would adopt it seeing how effective it's been in South Florida. But they don't. And Mexico Beach the house we featured in my last film, the last house standing that was built with a concrete block and it had the port in place walls and the whole house was concrete and it withstood a Category 5 hurricane. The houses that are going up next to it are wood houses that are now elevated. They're not following the concrete forms pattern because they want to save money. So all those houses we had. Experts say that that place is a time bomb. Oh yeah.

Ron Snouffer: 22:35

I mean, florida is good for a hurricane every few years and they're getting stronger and stronger every year. It seems like I mean, I don't know what's going to happen with these wood frame buildings.

George Siegal: 22:48

I don't either. And we interviewed one gentleman who is a floodplain manager and he was at a city council meeting in Mexico Beach and he was talking about how there were residents that were wiped out by Michael but were arguing for them not to raise the standard to rebuild, that they wanted to have a lower code. So a year or two after they strengthened the building code they dropped it back down again and lowered the elevation required for building. I hope nothing bad happens there, but it sure has a weird feeling to it yeah like I said it's crazy.

George Siegal: 23:24

I thought most of florida was under the building code for miami-dade no, and I guarantee you, most people moving into an apartment complex don't don't know that there's, there's, no, there's nothing stamped on the side of the wall of the building. Going, you're taking a risk living here and make sure you don't stay in the event of a storm and probably one of the good things that's exciting to see. We interviewed the CEO of the Tampa Housing Authority, which helps lower income housing folks, and they build only concrete structures. So when they build an apartment complex, it's all out of block. That's good.

Ron Snouffer: 23:57

So when they build an apartment complex.

George Siegal: 23:58

It's all out of block, and their philosophy is why are we going to take people that are struggling and put them in a house that's going to get wiped out? Let's put them in something that's going to survive, and I'm wondering why people with means aren't thinking the same way.

Ron Snouffer: 24:13

Well, I have no idea on that answer.

George Siegal: 24:22

I mean, you brought up a really good question that I have no idea. Yeah, it's a head scratcher. I'm sure it keeps you guys in business, but I'm sure you'd rather not have business like that. It's got to be pretty difficult when you're called in and you have to go out there. Describe what that's like emotionally when you're seeing people stuff all over the place.

Ron Snouffer: 24:37

I mean it's quite devastating. One of the last claims that I handled was Hurricane Ike and the property owner in question had a hundred foot tall pine tree fall and split his house in half. He had a two-story house. His daughters were upstairs, him and his wife were downstairs and it wiped out the staircase to get from his daughters down to him. And I mean two young kids under, I want to say like 12 years old at the time and they had no means of getting down to their parents and the I've heard bad stories about those pine trees that they don't fall like the oaks do, with maybe a little magistrate to them.

George Siegal: 25:23

They come down like tomahawks when they drop. I mean that could be deadly. That's not, that's, that's serious stuff.

Ron Snouffer: 25:29

They were lucky to be alive if that the bedrooms weren't on the the outside of the house.

George Siegal: 25:36

If one of them was in the middle, somebody would have died yeah that that's horrible to hear stuff like that and when, at the time when you get out, there are people looking at you as a lifeline, it's like, wow, I really need you to come through on this Versus maybe the first guy that comes out from the insurance company that disappointed them. They really need you to come through with an accurate look at what they're entitled to.

Ron Snouffer: 26:03

Yeah, so I can kind of tell you from both ends of that same hurricane. I remember one of the last claims I was on. I was the seventh adjuster that had gone out to help the customer out. The first six had just gone and taken a picture of the front of the house and said no damage whatsoever. Same situation house on the front of the house looked fine, there was no issues with it whatsoever. But I went and knocked on the door and I was like yeah, I'm here to take a look at your house. You're in dispute, you have several hundred thousand dollars in damage and it's been below deductible six times in a row.

Ron Snouffer: 26:37

What seems to be the problem? They opened the door up and there is no back of the house. A pine tree had fallen and taken out the back of the house. So the front of the house from the street looked fine but there was no back of the house and they still had the pine tree sitting in the back through all the bedrooms, all the bathrooms, a living room there upstairs was gone in the back of the house. But but you couldn't tell from the from the front street view that there was damage to it. And I mean I was. I was embarrassed.

George Siegal: 27:12

Yeah, I mean that's. That's unbelievable. You know, it's like I had a guy come out to give me an estimate on on a roof repair and he didn't even go up on the roof and barked out a number. How could people, how could six people have not done more than that? Are they under instructions to just half-ass it and come away with as little as possible to the victims, or are they just lazy? Are we getting bad people in those jobs so?

Ron Snouffer: 27:38

you know I can't speak to that as far as how they're hiring people, but I can say that when I was in the business the average age was about 53. And now I think it's about 28. So all the senior people that were in the business 20 years ago, or not even 20 years ago, 15 years ago are now out of the business. They're retired and they're finding people who have less experience at this point in time.

George Siegal: 28:04

Now I've seen videos where there are stories where people say the switching of adjusters. They have an adjuster that tells them everything's set. They think they're getting close to the point where they're going to get some action from the insurance company and then they switch adjusters. Is that a deliberate delay tactic by the insurance company to say, hey, we going to outlast these guys. If we, if we can drag this out six months a year, two years, they're going to have to go away and we'll save a lot more money than if we have to pay the claim you know, we've seen those tactics.

Ron Snouffer: 28:33

We can't verify 100 that that's accurate. They reassign people on a regular basis and they'll have claims that are just still open and they'll get assigned to somebody else. I have one right now. That's exactly that situation. We're on our fourth adjuster. We had a snow load collapse, a partial building in Minnesota, and we're on the fourth adjuster. We got involved in February this year. It's been going on since December of 22, I believe. So a year and three months before we got involved, and he's on his fourth adjuster. Once we got involved, they switched it to another adjuster.

George Siegal: 29:16

Wow, and I learned from an attorney that I had on a podcast, david Murray, that when you're talking to somebody at the insurance company and you think they're taking really good notes about everything you're saying, if you end up going to court they don't have to share those notes with your side, they don't even have to say they have them. That's for their record. So anybody involved in any kind of claim the homeowner needs to have as good a records as possible, because you can't rely on your insurance company doing that.

Ron Snouffer: 29:48

That's exactly right. That's why it's so important that when you think there's any issue with your insurance claim whatsoever, you need to get help and public adjusters are there to help and be on the consumer side. I mean Public adjusters are there to help and be on the consumer side. I mean there's things that they do on a regular basis that they will claim is work product, way before you ever have to get into a lawsuit with them or jury verdict like an underwriter's report. We had a claim in 2019. It ended up being the largest jury verdict in the state of Texas in 21. And in 2000, I think it was 19,.

Ron Snouffer: 30:30

The underwriter report they had bought the building in November. The underwriter report said the roof was in excellent condition. They had three different inspectors go out and take a look at the building. The third one said this is the Cadillac of all roofs, it's in excellent condition. And then in trial they wanted to say that it was all wear and tear, old, crappy condition because they bought the building in November and in March they got hit with softball-sized hail destroyed the roof. So they went from getting four months of premium to having to pay $2 million for a roof. They didn't want to pay it.

George Siegal: 31:08

It doesn't surprise me that that kind of stuff goes on. You know, I would think that it's like the bully on the schoolyard. It's like they'll get away with whatever they can. How do we fight back? How do we make this a level playing field so, when the disaster does happen, we're not victimized twice?

Ron Snouffer: 31:34

I think by you educating the public. That's one of the biggest problems that we have on our side of the industry. As public adjusters and first party attorneys, we all have the same issue it's getting the word out. I think you also interviewed Doug Quinn with APA. I mean before his nonprofit was around, there was nobody advocating outside of the public adjusters and first party claim people for consumers and we still aren't widely known. I mean most people don't know that they have an option. If the insurance company denies or underpays, then they just think they got to take it and suck it up and pull the money out of their 401k and do the repairs themselves.

George Siegal: 32:19

I had no idea and I was making a filmoug, pointed me towards people. We ended up interviewing dick tutweiler, who. This guy was just amazing in the film, the, the things that he pointed out, and and. And I'm one of those people that I think should have known better. I constantly get slapped in the face by the amount of things I don't know. That's why I don't try to claim to be an expert. I'm just passionate about wanting to help people. But people need to know about this stuff. You need to know that. Hey, there's somebody I can call that can come out here and kind of level the playing field a little bit. So at least I have an idea what I'm working with and not just taking some adjuster that's phoning it in.

Ron Snouffer: 32:59

I agree a hundred percent, but, like I said, education is a key part of the reason I wanted to start doing some of these podcasts is education is a big issue for us and the only thing we can do is try and get out the word to as many people as we can.

George Siegal: 33:14

So what's the best way that that people can get in touch with you and, uh, how, how, how should they? Should? They have you in their Rolodex so if an accident happens, they know I'm calling Ron.

Ron Snouffer: 33:26

Well, the easiest way to get in touch with me is probably through our website, wwwnationalclaimsnegotiatorscom. We have a free claim review on there. We get claims from all over the country and advise people for free on the front end. If they want to hire us, then there's, of course, a fee for that, depending on what the state is, and I mean we want to be an advocate first and try and serve people and make sure they understand what they're dealing with when it comes to their policy and what their claim really should be at.

George Siegal: 34:02

Yeah, I mean I thought you made an excellent point early in the interview when you said well, you're getting nothing. 10% isn't really that bad if you get paid. The problem is when these people don't understand I think the homeowner doesn't we don't present to them enough what the cost of doing nothing is. And then when you start interviewing people that five, six, seven years you hear about Doug Quinn not getting back in his house for seven years. He said the cost of doing something up front to avoid that is so much less than the cost of having to do it after the fact that you can't even compare them.

Ron Snouffer: 34:38

Yeah, it's. I think I read a statistic somewhere. If you defer the maintenance until it collapses or completely breaks down and when I say the maintenance, if you have damage from a hurricane, a tornado, hail damage, fire, whatever If you defer that maintenance until it fails completely, you spend 10 times as much for the same damage.

George Siegal: 35:05

And that's not even calculating what your time and your inconvenience and the things you can't do because you're now living in this hell that's been created by something beyond your control, I mean that seems to be really bad. I mean the kind of things Doug went through, if you know, his story is just horrible.

Ron Snouffer: 35:24

Yeah, I'm familiar with his story, but that's a regular occurrence here in Texas. What we see a lot of here in Texas because we have so much hail is property owners will get hit by hail and the insurance company will come out and pay for 184 shingles or $3,000 worth of damage below deductible and then four years later they get hit again $3,000 or $4,000 worth of damage and then three or four years later they get hit a third time and now it's $10,000 worth of damage. But you never made the repairs because you didn't understand. Just because it was below your deductible, you were responsible to make those repairs. Because you didn't understand, just because it was below your deductible, you were responsible to make those repairs.

George Siegal: 36:09

And so now they deduct $8,000, $10,000 off your $10,000 repair that you should be getting in full. Now, yeah, and I think people don't understand. They don't calculate that there's a science behind what that deductible is. So if you have a 2% deductible, they know that most claims probably do not go over that, so they're going to have to pay money. But that doesn't mean the damage isn't there, like you say. So you can't just push that stuff off.

Ron Snouffer: 36:31

Well, the other part of it is we're seeing like policies that are completely awful at this point in time. We had a previous client who bought her house in, I think, 2017. Right after she bought it, she had a hail claim and she bought it for $600,000. So she had a 1% deductible. She got the roof fixed and then just last year last summer, in 2023, so the roof was less than 10 years old, but it was now an ACB policy and she had a one and a half percent deductible. And even though her house that she bought in 2016 was $600,000, now it was over a million bucks because inflation in Texas housing prices went through the roof, and so she had a $15,000 deductible along with an ACV policy on a $40,000 roof, and so she got $20,000 in ACV money, minus $15,000 for her deductible, and she had $5,000 to replace a $40,000 roof.

George Siegal: 37:37

What happens is, a lot of times they don't end up replacing it, do they?

Ron Snouffer: 37:40

She hasn't. She's not going to, she's going to wait. Hopefully get new insurance is what she thinks. The problem is that claim is there. The insurance company has a database called Clue, which they manage all the documentation for every claim that's filed on a property. All the insurance companies share that database, so even when she switches it's still there.

George Siegal: 38:04

Yeah, that follows you around on your permanent record that's not a good thing. All right. So if you had to leave us with one kernel of wisdom that's going to save homeowners angst and headaches, what would you tell us?

Ron Snouffer: 38:18

I would tell you that plans fail for lack of advisors, but with many advisors they succeed. That's Proverbs 27, 17. And it's important to ask questions when it comes to your insurance plan. There is no bad question. Most people haven't been through this before and if they have, the rules have changed, the game has changed.

George Siegal: 38:42

they need to ask somebody yeah, I agree you, I I'll ask questions till you look at me and say, look, our time is up, um and then. And don't just ask the questions, write the answers down, because a lot of times you're talking to a uh, an expert at something and you're listening to them and you're trying to take it all in, and then 10 minutes later you're on to them and you're trying to take it all in and then 10 minutes later you're onto something else, even if they'll let you record it, just so you have that information, because that's gold.

Ron Snouffer: 39:08

Most adjusters are never going to let you record them or film them or anything like that. Really, they know the statute on that. They know that a recording is going to be used in court against them at some point in time. They never want that to happen.

George Siegal: 39:22

So then take good notes.

Ron Snouffer: 39:24

Take good notes.

George Siegal: 39:26

All right, Well, listen, Ron. All your contact information will be in the show notes. I know we went back and forth and had some challenges trying to get together today, but I really appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing the information.

Ron Snouffer: 39:37

Thank you and I'm really looking forward to watching your video. I didn't even know that was you. That's really cool that that's you.

George Siegal: 39:43

That is me and I'm excited about the film and I think I hope it opens a lot of eyes and helps a lot of people.

Ron Snouffer: 39:51

When is release date on that?

George Siegal: 39:53

You know we say this summer. You know, but you got to have all the pieces fall together. Everything has to work out, but we're making great progress. You know, the trailer is up now and we're trying to get a celebrity to be the voice of the film and I'm excited about it. I think it's going to be a great film.

Ron Snouffer: 40:13

I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, I'll be watching for it coming out. Yeah.

George Siegal: 40:18

Excellent Thanks, Ron.

Ron Snouffer: 40:19

Thank you, man.

George Siegal: 40:21

If you have a homeowner story good or bad I really want to hear from you. Be a guest on this podcast and share your story so other people don't end up making the same mistakes. It's an uphill battle being a homeowner, so let's join together and help each other out. It might be our best and only chance of having a good outcome. Thanks for taking the time to listen today. I'll see you next time.