149 How to Write a Thriller that Gets Attention: Character and Plot Advice from Chevy Stevens

New York Times bestselling author Chevy Stevens pulls back the curtain on what separates a good thriller from an unforgettable one. 

And it might not be what you think. 

In this episode, Chevy reveals her unconventional process for crafting antagonists that readers love to hate. 

She also shares the exact mindset shift that helped her sustain an eight-book career.

If you are... 

• struggling to create believable villains
• feeling stuck in your thriller's plot
• wondering how to build a lasting writing career in today's market

This conversation will give you the tools to break through. 

What Listeners Will Learn:

• How to create antagonists that traditional publishers love

• The "enough juice" test for evaluating thriller concepts

• Why your second book matters more than your first

Connect with Chevy:

Website

Twitter

Instagram

Chevy Stevens lives on Vancouver Island with her husband and daughter. When she isn’t working on her next book, she’s spending time with her family and their two dogs. Her books, including Still Missing, a New York Times bestseller and winner of the International Thriller Writers Award for Best First Novel, have been published in more than thirty countries.

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Transcript

David Gwyn 0:00

today I'm Thriller 1 0 1. I'm joined by Chevy Stevens, the New York Times bestselling author whose latest novel the Hitchhiker takes readers on a fun maybe not fun for her characters, but certainly fun for readers. Ride across 1970s Canada. Chevy and I are gonna talk about writing. How she creates her antagonists and how she writes these quality plots and twists that have made readers fall in love with her characters and her story. So Chevy, thanks so much for being on the Thriller 1 0 1 Podcast.

Chevy Stevens 0:27

For having me.

David Gwyn 0:28

Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you. So for people who are listening, why don't you give them a quick overview on what the Hitchhikers is about?

Chevy Stevens 0:35

Oh, you just did a great description, but I, I like to shorten it to, it's a home invasion on wheels. That sort of sets it up quite nicely, but it is about a couple in 1970s, 1976, who decide to go on a road trip to escape from, you know, some struggles in their life. And, I put them through so much that by the time they're finished, they'll probably won't ever get in an RV again. So that's, it's, it's, I wanted to do more of the, you know, the closed room sort of thrillers,

David Gwyn 1:07

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 1:07

that's where this one went. It's the different type. It's not a who done it, you know, it's very much a, who's going to win or who, who's gonna stand at the end of this?

David Gwyn 1:17

Yeah, I love that. So tell me a little bit about where this story came from. I mean, why, why an rv, why 1970s? Like what, what,

Chevy Stevens 1:23

Sure.

David Gwyn 1:24

here? Talk through that.

Chevy Stevens 1:25

I wish that a book just landed right in my brain, like fully formed, like knowing everything. I seem to be, unfortunately, I have to do a lot of trial and error before I, I kind of get what feels right. The, the initial little germ of this one was in a dream. Sometimes I do a lot of brainstorming when I can you know, that hazy period right before you go to sleep or a nap, I just empty my mind and I just let it go and it follows like weird little channels. But this one in particular, I'd went to bed thinking I really need a book idea. And then this colonel came and it was just an image of a, like an RV careening around corners. And it had a flash of like what it would be like if, like, you know this person who's abducted you and you see them like, take your husband outside or like just that feeling of being overtaken and you're not just overtaken and they literally have wheels and a kitchen. Like they can, they're good. You know, they, they can go all kinds of places and they got meals, you know,

David Gwyn 2:29

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 2:30

for them. And I'm like, man, I don't, I don't know if anyone's ever done that. And so it just progressed. It wasn't initially said in the seventies.

David Gwyn 2:38

Okay.

Chevy Stevens 2:39

my main character, I wanted her to have a love of nostalgia and vintage Airstreams.'cause I was going through a vintage Airstream. Can't go buy a vintage Airstream, so I'm gonna give my character one. But I was running into, the problem with many authors nowadays do is that our technology is making it harder to get away with stuff. This is great for cops, bad for criminals, and bad for authors. So unless you're, you know, an kind of author who is actually writing about the tech industry.

David Gwyn 3:07

Right.

Chevy Stevens 3:08

But in my case, I'm like, everyone's got cell phones. Every gas station has stuff, you know, it would've been on TikTok within an 10 minutes. Somebody would've been in the back doing a TikTok dance. and I found myself. It felt familiar.'cause I had just done a book where somebody just, I had to explain why they couldn't use their phone, why they couldn't get to a phone, why they, oh no. I dropped a call. So I was like, man, this sucks. I don't like this. And so I just pitched it to my editor. I said, do you mind if I set this like in the seventies? And just felt like it would give it a cool vibe. And she was like, yeah, totally. Go for it. And I picked 1976 because that was the Montreal Olympics, so I could cement it into a particular time.

David Gwyn 3:49

Yeah. Nice.

Chevy Stevens 3:50

It gave them a reason. It gave like a purpose, it gave a flavor.'cause of course, Canada was very excited about the Olympics and so it just gave a whole tone that I could give. And I like the seventies. The seventies is like just such a. Just such a cool time.

David Gwyn 4:07

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 4:07

mean, I was a kid in it, but like it is retro. It's retro for me too, and I just, I thought it was fun and I don't know why, but the characters seem, people, they seem sexier back then, you know? I don't know. It's just like, it just has that vibe. I do, you know, Quentin Tarantino Once Upon a Hollywood,

David Gwyn 4:26

Yeah,

Chevy Stevens 4:26

you know, that seventies vibe in the beginning. I'm like, I wanna live in that world in a book. And so I did. Yeah.

David Gwyn 4:32

cool. That's awesome. And so you're, you're kind of going to the, the place I wanted to go next, which is, which is your character. So

Chevy Stevens 4:38

Yep.

David Gwyn 4:38

these really. Complex antagonists. And, and I'm curious, how do you go about creating an antagonist so

Chevy Stevens 4:45

Mm-hmm.

David Gwyn 4:46

me through that process. What, do they come fully formed? Are they a process as you go? What, what does that

Chevy Stevens 4:51

Wouldn't that be nice? No. Usually I start with the premise and then it's figuring out you know, you have to have the bad person. I, I find my books tend to be good if I ha I have to have a character that will pushing against, they might not be the ultimate bad guy, but we do need to know who we're supposed to be afraid of.

David Gwyn 5:13

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 5:14

you know, mysteries tend to be more, you, you know, you, you have your killer in the boardroom and then there's 10 people and we're figuring out who did it,

David Gwyn 5:22

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 5:23

and I just, I don't know. It doesn't, I run outta steam or I'm just not good at that.

David Gwyn 5:28

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 5:28

I do better with 10 people in the room and one has a knife

David Gwyn 5:32

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 5:33

We don't want that guy to get us, but is he the actual knife killer that works better for me? And, and it just makes it more of exciting to read. So, but in this case and I like to think I'm getting better at this every time, but I really don't know if I am is if I've picked the wrong, bad person. I won't be able to get it going and, and it will just stall over and over. And I'm like, why am I running outta steam? Why am I running outta steam? And in this case Simon was initially one of the narrators and I can't have somebody narrate if we don't. He was supposed to be more sympathetic

David Gwyn 6:13

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 6:14

and or then start getting not so sympathetic. But we can't be in the head of that person if we're supposed to kind of like them,

David Gwyn 6:21

Mm-hmm.

Chevy Stevens 6:22

because if we trust them or we like them, then we don't think they can be doing the bad things. And boy, are they not scary anymore?

David Gwyn 6:29

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 6:30

Like, oh, I know he hasn't, but he's not really like that.

David Gwyn 6:33

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 6:34

Like he's just had a bad childhood,

David Gwyn 6:37

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 6:38

so. I do have to, and, and every thriller writer fights this and you know, you can re-review. Some people are like, oh, I wish I had more backstory. I wish I knew more about the people. And then other people are like, ah, I didn't need all that backstory. So it's tough. You do have to. Enough that you know why this person is doing this thing,

David Gwyn 6:58

Mm-hmm.

Chevy Stevens 6:59

but not go into it too much because ah, many people do not care. The reality is, is half this people can be just evil'cause they're freaking evil, you know? But in books we want justification for why not just they felt like it,

David Gwyn 7:12

Yeah,

Chevy Stevens 7:12

but I don't, that is a reality. So I try to walk that line of, I like. I mean, it depends on the book. In this one, because it was nonstop action we didn't really need to see a ton of his before. There's a glimmer of it. I wanted to just create more of that image of somebody who. They get drunk on power in a sense.

David Gwyn 7:35

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 7:36

that happens, you know, somebody who's never done anything in their entire life, they just go from one to like 60'cause they can, and it's like, wow, nobody's stopping me. This is awesome.

David Gwyn 7:47

Mm-hmm.

Chevy Stevens 7:47

so that sort of went with him. And then then yeah, and just, it's sort of like, you know, it's a pressure cooker. And anything in life, you see what people are really made of when push comes to shove, right? There'll be ones that you never thought would be aggressive, that stand out to be, you know. The toughies and there's the ones that you think are gonna be assertive that might crumble in the corner. And so when you put them all literally in a, you know, a moving can, you, you see like Alice, she rose to the occasion that be the, the wife, the, the other narrator. So it's told between her and Jenny who, that's the younger couple and the older couple. Simon is my bad guy, and he is Jenny's boyfriend, the older boyfriend And the thing I tried to keep in mind is that he, in his mind, everything he did ha was justified. He, he didn't just ma like just hurt people willy-nilly. He definitely took more pleasure in it than he probably should have, but in his mind, they were necessary. And so that was his code. So if I have a bad person. Bad character antagonist. I try to ha, they have a code, they have a reason in their mind, it does have to be justified. So that's how I try to keep this straight line

David Gwyn 9:06

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 9:06

their, what they would and what they wouldn't, and that's or why. And then you can get different. Well, if they feel this way, then they're gonna feel this way about that and that and that and that. So more usually motivation. It always comes down to motivation. Why are they doing it?

David Gwyn 9:22

Yeah. I love that a lot of, a lot of thriller writers listen to this podcast, and so I'm sure they're running the check in their mind, like, does my antagonist have a reason behind what,

Chevy Stevens 9:32

Right.

David Gwyn 9:33

doing? Because it is, it's so important.

Chevy Stevens 9:35

Mm-hmm.

David Gwyn 9:35

because without it, the story, it just doesn't feel real. So

Chevy Stevens 9:39

And sometimes it can be as simple as they like it,

David Gwyn 9:42

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 9:42

then you ha, I mean, there are very bad people who do very bad things because to them it's just awesome.

David Gwyn 9:48

Yep.

Chevy Stevens 9:48

then you gotta keep with that. Okay, cool. I've got like this dude. And he just really loves doing bad things. Like even Dexter had a code.

David Gwyn 9:56

So let's talk about the other side of this a little bit, and

Chevy Stevens 9:58

Sure.

David Gwyn 9:58

Alice here. So you are, you, you have these characters where you put them in difficult situations, and I think one of the things that I think you do really well is you. Building the kind of emotional connection with readers early with your, with your protagonist and, and with your main characters here. So can you talk us through that process a little bit? Like what are you thinking about before you kind of put your characters into these really difficult situations? We need as readers, we need to care about

Chevy Stevens 10:25

Mm-hmm.

David Gwyn 10:26

so, so what does that look like for you? Do you think about that at all? How do you navigate that?

Chevy Stevens 11:16

I do, I don't know if I logically think in my head, how are we gonna care about them? I'm probably thinking, how can I care about them?

David Gwyn 11:25

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 11:26

And then if I am interested or have sympathy for this person, or wanna see this person succeed or deal with what they're dealing with, or I'm empathetic to their struggle, then usually the reader will as well. So I. I doubt I could write a book about a really horrible person unless there was a reason I actually really liked that person and wanted him to redeem himself or something. Something, something else. So it's more, I'm probably picking the narrator or the character that I care about. They do evolve and they get more well-rounded.

David Gwyn 11:55

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 11:56

I think for me, if they're currently undergoing something emotional that they're having to work through, heal from deal with. Then, then they are like, I guess more of a raw person. They're raw and then they have more emotion. And if they're having more feeling, I can, I can feel that through them. So yeah they, I think usually I would say almost every one of my characters is currently in the midst. Of having like I don't think I've ever started a character where things are just awesome.

David Gwyn 12:30

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 12:31

If it were, it was page one

David Gwyn 12:32

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 12:33

and it changed my page two very swiftly.

David Gwyn 12:37

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 12:38

I don't think I've ever done one where they're all like, boy, this is a great day. You know, it's usually if I do, it's because I actually have given them a prologue and then we're gonna go back.

David Gwyn 12:48

Well,

Chevy Stevens 12:48

So I think that's it.

David Gwyn 12:50

As a, as a thriller writer, there's a

Chevy Stevens 12:51

Yeah.

David Gwyn 12:52

for readers,

Chevy Stevens 12:53

Yes.

David Gwyn 12:54

a certain things that you have to, to meet.

Chevy Stevens 12:56

it's getting harder for thriller writers, I think. I mean, maybe this is a story of, you know, as old as time, but you know, they get frustrated with tropes. Readers do, but there's only so many we can do. We, you know, we try to come at it as fresh. If you're curve or your twist is too far out of left field, and people are like, what the hell? When did, why did that? Character come on to the stage, you know? But if it's so it's walk of that line of making it feel fresh. But man, there are so many amazing thriller writers these days. This is hard.

David Gwyn 13:30

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 13:31

know, we gotta give those readers to give us a little grace. We're trying.

David Gwyn 13:35

Right. So, so tell me a little bit about how then your plot and characters come together. So, we've talked a little bit about plot, we talked a little bit about

Chevy Stevens 13:43

Sure.

David Gwyn 13:43

Are these things happening simultaneously? Is this just kind of happening organically? Like what are you thinking about when you're. Building a plot for a character and a character for a plot. Like where do these things align?

Chevy Stevens 13:55

You know, and again, it's evolution. Each one's been slightly different. You know, still missing was a what if. And I heard one character and I heard her speak very clearly in my mind, and she was talking about everything that happened to her. I had very clear certain things that I knew happened and then I was just writing, trying to get to those things.

David Gwyn 14:13

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 14:13

As you move on, you start realizing that's not necessarily how our all they're gonna do, because that was a book idea that came to me. Whereas now being a professional thriller writer, I am mining for ideas. So it's different. You know, I have to, I might. Have a list of different ideas that intrigue me or a true crime case that I thought was interesting or wild or something. And I'll make a list of them. But all good ideas are not books, right?

David Gwyn 14:40

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 14:41

So then I will do the test of, do I think there's gonna be enough juice? You know, like it's like I can have a cool. Sort of idea, but then what does the book like? Like what is actually making up the 400 pages?

David Gwyn 14:56

Hm.

Chevy Stevens 14:57

You know, is it gonna be just somebody sneaking around going, oh no, they got me. Like, so you have to have the bulk. What are these people doing? And so I guess for me it's starts with a kernel of a concept maybe. And then I start trying to work it to see. Will this have enough tension? That's the main thing. Will I be able to get some suspense and tension here? And then it's who is best to tell that story? Like which character? Like for my last one, I didn't do an. I tried not to keep my pattern, one chapter for her, one chapter for the other, because I find if you do that, you end up trying to fill someone's chapter if they're not actually doing anything exciting.

David Gwyn 15:43

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 15:43

my thing for that book was whoever had the, the who was having the really shitty time, they got the chapter, you know, whoever was tortured enough or whoever was gonna go do something interesting

David Gwyn 15:57

Yeah,

Chevy Stevens 15:58

or scary, they got the chapter.

David Gwyn 16:01

yeah.

Chevy Stevens 16:01

And so that's just how I flowed, you know? And then I had to weave in some backstory later on too. So then it was like, how do you put that in there? It's, you know, big puzzles. The one I am working on now is my ninth novel. This one, again, the premise started with a drifty little daydream. And then it evolved because then I talk to my editor, I go, I'll send her a list, and then I always put the one I like a little higher up on the list. And then if she says, I like this one, this one or this one, I'll go, yeah, those are, I mean, those are good, but did you see that one right there? I think I could do something with that one. And then we usually have several talks.

David Gwyn 16:41

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 16:42

often I get off the phone feeling like, totally pumped up. Yeah, super exciting. But then I put it through my own mental, I don't know, like filter, like, will it have this? Mm, but what about this? And then when I start getting doubts, I, I try to pay attention. You know, earlier in my career I might have just overwrote it because we're all a little in love with our editors, like worship. Love, mentor, fear, love

David Gwyn 17:11

All the emotions.

Chevy Stevens 17:12

all of it. And so if they think something's a really good idea, a fa, it can actually be really hard to walk away from it or to, to veer because all we heard is that's what they want us to do. Okay, we'll do you know? And then after a while you're like, oh, but you know, she was really excited about the idea, but I don't know if that's working. And so I've come to learn. They're just brainstorming with you,

David Gwyn 17:34

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 17:35

and she is more than okay with me telling her, you know what? I actually think that's falling apart. What if I do? Am I like this, this, this, and this? You know, they're just spitballing and trying to help you. In no way in form is she saying, you have to do it this way, but it can lock in her head, and I can spend six months trying to make that damn thing work without going, Ugh. So I'm, I'm trying over and over. To really get more solid about what it is that works for me, what it is I want to do in this one. Because I think for me as a writer to feel fresh, I like to have a new challenge, whether it be writing a his in the past, that was new for me. That book was the first one I also wrote in full third person. Close third. I was always a first person writer. I didn't even know I could write in third.

David Gwyn 18:21

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 18:21

it wasn't until dark Roads when my editor asked me to put one of the characters in third that I was like, huh. It felt weird at first, you know, like driving on the wrong side of the road. Every once in a while I would toss in an eye'cause I'd forget. But now I love third,

David Gwyn 18:37

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 18:37

I'm like, how did I ever do the other thing? So, so this one is third,

David Gwyn 18:42

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 18:43

I find I've now, so I've come, I cannot plot out an entire book.

David Gwyn 18:48

Okay.

Chevy Stevens 18:49

have bulks of things. I have I'll start getting images and scenes. I will be more about. Which characters want what? And then a scene will start morphing out of that. But it's like Legos, like, so the one I'm working on right now, it, Cantonese is a dream. It was a woman who she's being haunted by her husband's dead mistress. That he, he didn't know. She doesn't know he's having mistress. But it evolved because the problem with that is, you know, is it the waitress or is it the wife? And so I'll try it, I'll try it many ways. I will rewrite a first chapter several times until I just know it's got the bite. So then I know who's who is telling it, and I'll pitch it to my editor and she said, I think the, you know, it should be in first person. I didn't really like it in first, so I sent her it first and then in third. And she said, you know what, these are actually so close. Do whatever you want. And I'm like, third, it is. So, so it's kind of like, I guess it's like soup. I know I wanna make a chicken soup. I saw, I, you know, I've had a good idea. I've been craving chicken soup, but then I wanna do a chicken soup that nobody else has done a chicken soup and I wanna make a chicken soup. That I haven't done before,

David Gwyn 20:06

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 20:07

I wanna experiment with some different spices and then maybe there's a little too much to that one, but not enough this one. But, so for this book, I've been working harder on getting all my ingredients, but I don't know the mix yet

David Gwyn 20:19

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 20:20

or what's gonna go in first, second, third, I know, but I would say this one is the first one I've crafted that has layers. So it's not just a all the way through.

David Gwyn 20:31

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 20:32

So I've been enjoying that. It's like weaving little, probably like Taylor Swift feels with her little Easter eggs that she leaves everywhere.

David Gwyn 20:38

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 20:39

like smugly sowing the seeds for the little trips along the way. So we'll see. Hopefully it works. Hopefully I'm not giving another interview in three go going. Okay, so that did not work.

David Gwyn 20:50

that one

Chevy Stevens 20:51

Don't do that one. Yeah, that could happen.

David Gwyn 20:54

that. I, I, it's funny. Yeah. I haven't mentioned, I've talked to a lot of,

Chevy Stevens 20:57

Yeah. Sure.

David Gwyn 20:58

and there, I'm, I always love the metaphors that people have for their writing and like. I can totally envision you like standing at like a counter with all of your ingredients, trying to figure out what goes in first,

Chevy Stevens 21:09

Right. Celery. No. Too crunchy. Too crunchy, right?

David Gwyn 21:13

So you, you touched on your career a little bit and I,

Chevy Stevens 21:15

Yeah.

David Gwyn 21:16

to hear you talk a little bit more about that.'cause I, I'm, I'm, you know, you've obviously built this really impressive. Of writing career. And so I'm curious about kind of just the lessons you've learned about sustaining a career, writing thrillers kind of from, from still missing your, your, your debut novel all the way till now. You've, it sounds like you're working on your ninth novel.

Chevy Stevens 21:34

Mm-hmm.

David Gwyn 21:35

just kind of advice for people who are out there thinking about having a writing career, especially in

Chevy Stevens 21:39

Sure.

David Gwyn 21:40

what, what kind of advice do you have for people?

Chevy Stevens 21:42

I think the main advice is that there's no cookie cutter. Like almost every writer you talk to is gonna have had a different process, different challenges that they faced. There's some that are lucky, right? Not lucky. Maybe just win right out the gate and keep winning. Yay for them. I don't like those ones. I'm just kidding. No, there's some that, that's good. There's others who have really worked their way up. And just because something wasn't successful right away doesn't mean it won't be

David Gwyn 22:11

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 22:11

because there's lots of stories of people who on their fourth, fifth book, it just flew.

David Gwyn 22:17

Mm-hmm.

Chevy Stevens 22:17

others that a book that was out for a year just started happening. So I think there's no one way. But if there's any consistent, you gotta stay at it. And now luck, unfortunately, is a part of it.

David Gwyn 22:31

Mm-hmm.

Chevy Stevens 22:31

I got a really good agent and I have a really good editor, and I've been with the same ones since the beginning,

David Gwyn 22:36

Oh, wow.

Chevy Stevens 22:37

I've been with my agent longer than my husband. I would say he's my most long-term male relationship. But that's not always the case, and I've been lucky in that and I know that, you know, I've seen really talented authors get just they're get torpedoed and it's really sad. Like it is. It's a business like any other business. But I think you just have to keep reinventing and keep trying, keep kicking the kick at the can.

David Gwyn 23:02

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 23:02

case, my first book came out and was really successful, but. I had never gone to university or anything. That was my, I learned on that book. So my personal challenge was I actually still didn't know how to write a frigging book. I learned how to write that one.

David Gwyn 23:17

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 23:17

so everything I'd learned was about making that one good, that idea good. I hadn't yet learned. Not all ideas are good

David Gwyn 23:25

Mm-hmm.

Chevy Stevens 23:25

and what it takes and what I'm best at and what I'm not good at, and all of that, you know? Go back in time. Maybe I would do it different. Who knows? But. My first one was massive and I didn't really enjoy the process of that one coming out, which I wish I could have, but I was in the horrible throes of trying to get your second book

David Gwyn 23:49

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 23:49

and the pressure of knowing your first one was amazing, and everybody wants you to have your second amazing. But we can't all be Taylor Swift's. You know, some of us are the one hit wonders that, you know, it just, maybe it never ha and you're, you're, you're happy it happened once, but boy, you, you didn't wanna get off the field yet. Right? So, you know, my second one, I mean, they did well, but they did not do what the first one did. And I feel like I've been slowly kind of getting up there again, you know, and learning more my craft and building. I have done things differently than many authors in the fact that I did not kill myself to try to put out the last two faster.

David Gwyn 24:36

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 24:36

They took me a while because they just took me a while,

David Gwyn 24:39

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 24:40

also I didn't make it my, I was like, I'm just going to get it right.

David Gwyn 24:46

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 24:47

I didn't go, I've got to stay up. I've gotta, you know, I didn't there. I've seen authors who are really successful, I would kill for their back list, let alone putting out new stuff, and they're still checking themselves into hotels for a week straight beforehand, trying to get it finished. And I'm like, girl, everyone will wait for you.

David Gwyn 25:08

Yeah. Right.

Chevy Stevens 25:08

You know, and I, I'm, I like, I guess it's a mix of, you know, pride and feeling of the, they, they, they feel they have to and or desire, I'm sure,

David Gwyn 25:17

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 25:18

but I have a kid

David Gwyn 25:19

Mm-hmm.

Chevy Stevens 25:20

and for the last, you know, eight years, they get sick.

David Gwyn 25:24

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 25:24

want you. I've chosen my family many times over that now. I was able to,'cause I'm older and I was smart with my early earnings. I never just blew it all. And so I could balance, but yeah, if I wrote a book a year or a book every two year, I'd be making shitloads more money. But I really wanted to just feel like I'm, I gave it my best.

David Gwyn 25:49

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 25:49

Not everyone else will, might think is my best'cause everyone likes something different. But I will know that there's literally not one word. I didn't really agonize over,

David Gwyn 26:00

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 26:00

you know, sink. That what I gave it, everything I had at that time.

David Gwyn 26:05

yeah. I love that. I, I work with writers. I have a community of writers that I work with. And I always tell'em, I think I'm gonna have to amend this a little bit. Now. I always tell'em, it, it's a writing career is really like a race to 10 books and to out, like write published, like, and, and it's because one of those statistically is probably gonna do pretty well, and that will feed your back list and

Chevy Stevens 26:23

Yeah.

David Gwyn 26:24

your other stuff. But now I think I need to amend that and be like, it's a race to 10 good books, because 10 bad books isn't gonna get you anywhere.

Chevy Stevens 26:32

It's interesting you say that because I've also had that thought, like, I've had these talks with my husband. I mean, like, I feel like I've been trying to get the magic of getting that one big one again.

David Gwyn 26:41

yeah,

Chevy Stevens 26:41

know, like trying to get that one that puts you on, and then it seems like it, you could read anything, write anything after that, and it seems like they're just like, oh, it's so and so,

David Gwyn 26:49

yeah,

Chevy Stevens 26:49

oh, that it's, it'll be fine. It's so and so, but. I have also had that mindset of maybe it is a number game. Maybe this is, you just keep putting them out. You just gotta keep going. One of them will eventually land,

David Gwyn 27:01

Yeah,

Chevy Stevens 27:01

yeah. Good is important.'cause as easy, you can also lose very quickly. so I don't really know. If it's 10, that's not good news for me'cause I'm on eight.

David Gwyn 27:12

Hey,

Chevy Stevens 27:12

Can we revise that?

David Gwyn 27:14

That's not too bad. That's not too bad.

Chevy Stevens 27:16

it, can we say it's eight? But I will say this is my eighth and it has three starred reviews right now, which still missing had four.

David Gwyn 27:26

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 27:27

And so that. I've had almost, I think every one of them has had one star since then. But so to my own personal goal is always, of course, to have reached the success of my first one. That's what I want. I want that again, like, I'm not gonna lie, I want that. I've, you know, I'm really big believer in manifesting. So

David Gwyn 27:48

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 27:48

I will write out success, mission statements that I want, and, like, I'll call to the, you know, put it out in the universe. I 100% believe in putting out into the universe. I do a lot of mental imagery.

David Gwyn 28:00

Hmm.

Chevy Stevens 28:01

Every night before I was going to, you know, bed after working on this book, I would, I'd have a vision in my mind, and I would see the book, and I'd see it open, and I would see gold thread going around it. And I would pull the gold thread tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter. And that was my concept of having the tightest book possible. And I just held that image every night. So, I don't know. I'm a little bit, I got a little bit of the witch in me.

David Gwyn 28:25

I love that. I think it's,

Chevy Stevens 28:26

Yeah.

David Gwyn 28:26

whatever that The other thing I say to everybody is it doesn't matter what you do to get the book done as long as the book gets done.

Chevy Stevens 28:32

Yes.

David Gwyn 28:33

sounds like for you, that's the thing that works and I love that. I

Chevy Stevens 28:36

Yeah, the magic and, and you know, we all have this,

David Gwyn 28:40

I have like two more questions for

Chevy Stevens 28:41

Sure,

David Gwyn 28:42

and then we're on the way out here. So,

Chevy Stevens 28:43

sure.

David Gwyn 28:44

one of my last questions is just,

Chevy Stevens 28:45

Yeah.

David Gwyn 28:46

can people find you? Where can people look you up?

Chevy Stevens 28:48

I'm again, the anti what we're supposed to be doing. I'm not on social medias a much as I should be. I'm really trying to lean towards. One of those authors that's like really mysterious. You like, see once every four years they,

David Gwyn 29:04

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 29:05

they come out from the cave. But I am on Facebook. I'm probably mostly on Facebook. I am on TikTok, but that's mostly for my own pleasure. I don't post much on face TikTok. I'm trying to get better at it. I've spoken a couple podcasts and keep joking and then I'm waiting until my daughter can start doing my social media.

David Gwyn 29:22

Oh yeah

Chevy Stevens 29:22

that's my ultimate goal. So far, she doesn't really wanna post about my stuff, but I mean, I'm trying to tell you, like I try to tell her, the more successful I am, the better it is for you. But Instagram, I'm on Instagram, but I tend to not be on a lot of social media and tell I'm putting a book out that I'm on there a lot more.

David Gwyn 29:40

That makes

Chevy Stevens 29:40

But Facebook, I do answer my fans, I do interact, I do try to communicate on there. If nobody's heard me from a lot, it's'cause I'm writing a book.

David Gwyn 29:48

Yeah.

Chevy Stevens 29:49

you know, no news is good news. But then when I'm out there a lot, then I'm more active and I do try to communicate with people

David Gwyn 29:56

That's awesome. So this was so much fun. I, I really enjoyed talking to you. I, I feel like we could, we could chat all day, so,

Chevy Stevens 30:03

probably. I told you that's the problem. Me, me talking is not the problem. Me stop talking is the problem. Because I don't talk. Well, you know, again, we work in like a whole for a really long time

David Gwyn 30:15

Yeah,

Chevy Stevens 30:15

and we forget how passionate we are about what we do until somebody asks us and then we're like, oh yeah.

David Gwyn 30:22

yeah.

Chevy Stevens 30:22

get to say so much about this.

David Gwyn 30:25

Very cool. So Chevy, this was awesome. Thanks

Chevy Stevens 30:27

Thank you.

David Gwyn 30:27

the time to chat on the Thriller 1 0 1

Chevy Stevens 30:28

No problem.