Satisfaction Factor

#21 - Finding Satisfaction in Anti-Diet Friendships

February 16, 2022 Naomi Katz & Sadie Simpson
Satisfaction Factor
#21 - Finding Satisfaction in Anti-Diet Friendships
Show Notes Transcript

In honor of Valentine's Day, this week Naomi & Sadie are talking about relationships. Not romantic relationships, but platonic friendships! Ditching diet culture changes a lot of things, and the we way we make & relate to our friends is no exception. We're chatting about: how making friends as an adult can be hard (and why we really think there should be a dating app for friendships); why social media is actually a great (and very underrated) way to make new friends; how ditching diet culture makes us more selective & intentional about cultivating deeper friendships; the importance of cultivating community with people who share our values; and so much more! 

You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @thesadiesimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

For this episode's transcript, visit: www.satisfactionfactorpod.com

Naomi Katz:

Welcome to Satisfaction Factor, the podcast where we explore how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. Hey everyone, welcome back to Satisfaction Factor. I'm Naomi Katz. I'm an Intuitive Eating, body image, and self trust coach providing anti diet support to free thinking grownups who want to reclaim their autonomy and consent from diet culture.

Sadie Simpson:

I'm Sadie Simpson, an anti diet group fitness instructor and Intuitive Eating counselor. I help other fitness professionals disengage from diet culture, so they can improve their program enrollment, engagement, impact, and retention without shame and manipulation.

Naomi Katz:

Valentine's Day just passed, and, you know, around that time we get a lot of focus on romantic relationships- which is great- romantic relationships are great. And we wanted to take a little time this week to talk about another kind of relationship that is very, very important in our lives. And that's platonic friendships.

Sadie Simpson:

And we've talked about before how our friendships can be molded by diet culture. They can be affected by diet culture in a very negative way, potentially. And we wanted to dig into that a little bit too, because as, again, we've mentioned this before, all of this stuff is inter-related. Like diet culture has its tentacles in every area of our lives. And friendships are no exception.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, absolutely. And when we ditch diet culture, when we started to take steps to divest from diet culture, our friendships also change a lot when we do that, too. They- I don't know- our relationship- the way we relate to people in general changes a lot when we do that. And so we definitely see that in the context of our friendships, too.

Sadie Simpson:

Do you feel like you have lost friends as a result of disengaging from diet culture?

Naomi Katz:

That is an excellent question. I don't know that I would say that I've lost friends, so much as I have chosen not to cultivate friendships as a result of it. So you know, maybe there were people who have been in my, you know, social circle peripherally, or who I've met newly, or something like that, and because of their position in diet culture, I have chosen not to expand on those relationships.

Sadie Simpson:

That feels pretty similar to my experience, too. I mean, even as an adult- and we'll get into this a little bit- but like, making new friends as adult, and having friend groups as an adult, and that type of thing is a whole different experience than like having friendships, and friend groups, and that type of thing like as teenagers or young adults. But yeah, I can definitely relate to that, too. I am for sure a lot more intentional about either deepening relationships with people who feel like are more on kind of the same wavelength, contrasting to that not giving as much time, and attention, and effort to friendships or relationships that just don't feel like they match up with what I'm looking for in a friendship.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, absolutely. I love the thought of it as being intentional.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

Which, again, is such a carryover from the work that we do around Intuitive Eating and stuff, and- because so much of that is about being intentional in the way we relate to our bodies, and food, and diet culture, and stuff like that. And so, being intentional in our friendships also makes sense.

Sadie Simpson:

And I think it's hard to be intentional with like cultivating deeper relationships because when we are in diet culture a lot of our friendships and a lot of our relationships are very shallow, like they are based upon things that are kind of surface level. So I think like, as we're kind of getting rid of all the crap that diet culture teaches us, like, it kind of helps us wash ourselves free of some of these shallow, more surface level relationships. Which, as like an introverted person feels really really, really good to me,

Naomi Katz:

Especially when you're in that place of diet culture, there's this sense of like, everybody I meet, I want to like me, and therefore, everybody should be my friend.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

And once I- once you step out of diet culture, part of that is also not maybe needing as much outside validation. And so it's okay if like, not everybody is going to be my friend. Like, it's- I don't necessarily want to be friends with everybody. So it's fine if not everybody wants to be friends with me.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

But- but through the process of ditching diet culture, working through Intuitive Eating, things like that, we get more grounded in who we are. You know, when we're in diet culture, I think there's a lot of like disconnection from our values, and from, you know, what we like, and what we don't like, our preferences, and just, you know, our humanity, essentially. And when we do this work, we reconnect with a lot of that stuff. And as a result, it's a lot easier to just know when something isn't for you.

Sadie Simpson:

So let's talk a little bit about making friends as adults. Because I'm just going to assume here for a minute that a lot of our listeners may struggle with this, because I know I struggle with this. So I think this is like a common theme that occurs for people, when- well, especially like throughout COVID- even if you were working in an office setting, or you went to a gym, or you were a part of like a faith based church community, or whatever kind of groups you were a part of, especially over the last two years, a lot of those connections have probably kind of dispersed a little bit. Like we're not around groups of people as much as we used to be. But even before COVID, just as an adult, it's really hard to make connections and find friends with people that you actually like.

Naomi Katz:

Oh my gosh, that could not be more true. As somebody who has moved a number of times to new cities as an adult, it is super hard to make new friends as an adult.

Sadie Simpson:

Mm-hmm.

Naomi Katz:

Like, it is a challenge. And honestly, the fact that I- through like this work that we do here- like, no longer have a lot of interest in surface level friendships, it's even harder. Like, that's definitely something that's worth acknowledging- that like the fact like- like getting to a place where you're really only interested in having friendships that serve you, and that are like worth having basically, makes making new friends even harder. Like that's- let's acknowledge that.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes, for sure. Well, even like thinking about most of the friendships that I've had after college, basically, it's pretty much been by happenstance, and not by intention, until probably the last couple of years. For a while, my friends, like my adult friends, were my co workers, like people that I worked with, people that I was around every day. Because we were there together for eight hours a day, so we hung out at work, and then sometimes we would hang out after work. And it was an easy way to meet like a peer group of people. But when your co workers are also your friends, they may not necessarily be the friends that you would actually choose, should you like go out and try to- to pick out somebody that really aligns with your values, and your interests, and that type of thing.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, that is definitely true. You know, when you're younger, like where do you meet friends? You meet coworkers. And then the other thing that- I feel like a lot of my friends were people that I met through people I was dating.

Sadie Simpson:

Mm-hmm.

Naomi Katz:

Or even just people that I would meet at parties, or bars, or something like that. Like, it's actually- it's really interesting, the parallels between making new friends and dating.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

Especially when you're younger.

Sadie Simpson:

It's the same thing.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, like, especially when you're younger, you just- and you know, it's funny, because like, over time, I would say that the people that I met who were friends because we were co workers, while you know I might still be connected to them on Facebook, or like, you know, vaguely still, you know, acquainted with them, the friendship that has lasted me the longest in my life was definitely somebody that I met through a friend at a bar. And I think it's interesting because I think that, as weird as that is, it's because the people that you meet through a friend at a bar are more likely to be somebody that you have more in common with than just the fact that you work in the same place.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, I can definitely relate to that too. I've got some people that I do kind of keep up with, you know, on Facebook or Instagram that were my coworkers over the years. There are a few people who I had worked with who I still maintain regular contact with. You know, we'll text each other every once in a while or, you know, send each other funny stories of things that happen when we think about the other person. And we always will say, like, during some of these text conversations every couple of months that we might have, like, hey, let's make a plan to go out to eat or go get a drink. And the other person is always like, yeah, that sounds good. But then we never do it. So luckily, there's like technology, there's text messaging, there's Facebook, where we can kind of keep up with people. But it's just hard. Like, even as adults, like we've got other crap going on. Like, we've got kids, we've got jobs, it's really cold outside. So who wants to go anywhere and do anything. There's still a pandemic going on. So it's just really, really hard, as all of these things kind of stack on top of each other, to really maintain any kind of connection with another person. It's a challenge.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think we talk a lot about- like, you've mentioned a few times how COVID has, you know, had this impact, because you're not doing in person stuff and things like that. And I think, again, as somebody who not only has moved to new cities as multiple times in the past few years, but I've also been working from home.

Sadie Simpson:

Well, you want to know what's really weird, is

Naomi Katz:

That's so interesting. And it's definitely trying to make friends with other moms. Because you're something that I've heard from other moms. I don't know. It's already in this place of you have something in common, like so interesting. Like, I wonder how much of that is related to you have kids that are around the same age. So you might run the fact that- so, you know, one of the reasons why friendship into other moms at the park or at the library. Again, like pre pandemic, it was a little bit easier to meet other people and- and talk to other adults and other moms or parents. But like, you're kind of in this situation- and this has happened to me multiple times- like I've been at the park with my kid, and I'm like kind of engaging and talking to my child, and then somebody else is there with their kid, and they're kind of like trying to engage with their kid, or give them a snack, or you know clean off their shoes, or pants, or whatever. And it's always super awkward, because I can tell like both of the adults in the situation kind of want to talk to each other. But then it's like navigating this weird water of do you start talking to them? Do you ask them a question? Once you do, like, are you committed to having like a full out conversation with them while you're at the park? Is this going to be the beginning of a new friendship? Do you hate each other's guts? Like there's so much stuff happening in like this weird park playground environment that I did not know would be such a like- such a thing before I had a kid. within diet culture is weird, is how often it's like not really friendship, but more like competition.

Sadie Simpson:

Mmm.

Naomi Katz:

And I wonder how- whether like, that's part of what's showing up in mom groups. Because you know how moms are always like, no, the way I parent is best.

Sadie Simpson:

Oh, yeah.

Naomi Katz:

Hashtag not all moms, obviously. But I think that that's like a known thing about like mom groups in general.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes. Well, I will say this- we moved to the house that we're in now about three years ago, and where we're at like we can walk to a playground and a library. And probably like a month after we moved here, I started seeing advertisements at the library for tiny tots yoga. And it was like preschool yoga class at the library. It was free. We could walk to it from our house. At the time, I was barely like working anywhere outside of the house, so I was like, heck yeah, we're gonna go do some kid baby yoga, and get out and do something, and maybe meet some people. And that happened probably a few months right before COVID hit. And in those couple of months going to tiny tots yoga once a week was like the best mom group thing I'd ever experienced. Because most of the other moms- like we did have something in common. And it was interesting the way that like that group kind of brought people together, because, one, most of the other parents were like close to my age. Because sometimes you go to things with parents- like I'm a little bit older- like people have, you know, kids when they're 20 years old- like I'm way older than 20 years old. But sometimes you go to like these parent kid groups and the- the parents are a lot younger. And it's hard to find anything in common as a 37 year old with like an 18, or 20 year old. That's one thing. But uh, it was interesting because that tiny tots yoga group kind of brought together a group of parents who were in very similar situations. Like we had had kids a little bit later. We had all like had time working for like 10 or 15 years, and we all stepped away from our jobs once we had kids to kind of do the whole like stay at home mom slash work part time thing while trying to raise kids until they go to school. And like I still keep in touch with those moms even though we don't have tiny tots yoga. Like that was like a cool group that I was very fortunate to be able to hang out with for like a period of time that I feel like, I'll stay in touch with, not only from like, just some of the things we had in common, but like it's- it was a good connection piece like location-wise too, because they all lived within like five miles from. That was a handy way to meet some friends that I actually liked. So that was nice.

Naomi Katz:

That's awesome.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

I love that so much. And I think that's something that has occurred to me several times in the midst of like my moving to different places and stuff like that, is that like, because, one, I work from home, so coworkers are not like an easy source of friendship. And two, I don't have kids, and so mom groups are another thing that I often am like, wow, that would just be like such a nice thing to be able to rely on finding anywhere I moved- is that like, even if- even if I had to, like pick and choose who in those groups I actually wanted to cultivate friendships with, like, it's just like, it opens a door to just like, meeting people basically.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. Yes.

Naomi Katz:

Which- meeting people is hard.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes it is! Like, if it weren't for tiny tots yoga, I'd be like- I wouldn't know many of my neighbors, I wouldn't know many of like the parents of the kids that are like around the same age as my kid. Because even since then, like I've seen some of the same families and some of the same parents and kids like in swim lessons, or we've seen each other out, like outside in a field at one of the local breweries, which has been kind of cool, because we can find other families to sort of do things that we like to do to hang out with- which again, you know, things are cold and pandemic-y right now- but you know, I have hope for the future that some some fun things can happen again.

Naomi Katz:

Yes. Let's hold on to that hope.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, well, I mean, I feel like that's a good segue into how we actually do make friends as adults, right?

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

So like, yeah, obviously, like, if there's a group that you can gravitate towards that is based on something like being a mom, or like some kind of like interest group like that, that's obviously a great way to do that. But like, can we talk about how the internet is underrated for making friendships?

Sadie Simpson:

Yes. Oh, my gosh. I mean, a lot- outside of the mom group, like most of the friends that I've made within the last few years have been on the internet.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, same. And, you know, I think one of the things that makes that work so well is- especially for you and I, like, who post regularly about our business, and about our beliefs, and stuff like that- is like, it's like self filtering. Like the people I make friends with on the internet know who I am, and what I believe, and what matters to me, and stuff like that, because I'm very transparent about that. To some extent, when you meet somebody for the first time in real life, like out of nowhere, you have no idea what you're getting yourself into. So it's kind of nice sometimes-

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

- to meet somebody on the internet, where like you already know that you have like actual things in common, not just proximity to each other.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. It's kind of like a dating app, per se, that you're like, kind of checking some boxes, and feeing people out, and be like, okay, this person's pretty cool.

Naomi Katz:

That's totally true. And I have one- I can't tell you how many times I have been like, why is there not like, essentially a dating app but for friendships? Why does that not exist? Like, I feel like in a lot of ways people would benefit more from that than from the dating apps.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. If anybody out there is listening who is an app developer, let's make this thing happen. Like we can take it to Shark Tank. Like, we'll have some friendship apps out there.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah. So there's this one website called Meetup.

Sadie Simpson:

Mm-hmm.

Naomi Katz:

And when we first moved to North Carolina, and were living in a different city, we actually did try Meetup because we were like- like this is a small town full of like- there were- it was basically college students, like families our age who like basically live there forever, or retirees. And we were like, we're gonna have to actually put

Sadie Simpson:

Mm-hmm. some effort into meeting people here. So yeah, we tried this the site called Meetup. And basically what it is, if you're not familiar with it, is like people post- like, you can form groups and stuff like that. And then you basically post events that people can get together. And so we found one in our area, and we started going to like some of the meetups for this group. And like, you know, on the one hand, it was nice to do something social. But on the other hand, it was not- like you don't- you didn't really have- like, technically you had profiles and bios, but it wasn't like really a social media type thing. So you weren't sharing your thoughts and feelings on things, and, you know, your life, and whatever. And so, I don't know, like it was really hard to connect with people that way. Like, everybody would show up, and like everybody was kind of like disconnected. And it was very much more of like- I feel like I had a much more of a mom group vibe, than, you know, meeting people through social media does. Yeah. Well and, at least now, on Instagram, specifically, I'm thinking about- and honestly, I've never done this, but maybe I should- like, you know how you can search by location. And most of the time, I feel like that feature is used for- I mean, I know I've used it like for travel, like you're going somewhere, search by location and see like what some cool places to visit, or to go out to eat, or whatever. But that might be a good way to kind of filter out people in your area. It would take a little bit of work, but like filtering out Instagram profiles, and seeing like, oh, this person might be interesting to connect with, like on Instagram, and kind of initiating a conversation that way. I'm trying to remember how I started following you. And I don't know if maybe somebody had like shared a post of yours. And then I- I think that's probably what happened. I think somebody shared one of your posts, and I clicked on it, and I was like, oh, this person's from Asheville, I'm going to follow them. I'm pretty- like I think that's how it went down. But I'm not 100% sure.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, I mean, I love being here. Like this is- you know, I've mentioned I've moved a number of times, and here- this is where I have made the most connections with people as an adult. And it's been really awesome. And all of them have been people that I've met through social media first.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

That's- which is- which says a lot. And like, yeah, part of that is just because there are functions for like, you know, sorting by location. And sometimes you do just stumble across, like, oh, shared posts by somebody that shares my interest and also happens to be in my area. But like, it's just so interesting how- you know, I think that we, as a society, have gotten to the point where we don't discredit people- relationships that start online, like for dating. You know, obviously, dating apps, dating websites, stuff like that, like those have been like, like reasonable sources of meeting romantic partners for quite some time now.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

But I think we still really don't see social media as that for friendships. Like, I think we still have this sense of like, oh, if you made this friend over the internet, they're not a real friend, or something like that.

Sadie Simpson:

Mmm. Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

And like, I just- it's really worth thinking about what we really value in friendship, and why we think that can't exist online.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, now hearing you say that, I'm thinking about just some connections of people that I've made with on Instagram specifically that don't live anywhere near here, that live on the other side of the world in some cases, or the other side of the country, that I would honestly call my friends. Like we have messaged each other back and forth multiple times about multiple things, and have had some really good conversations. And like, as weird as it sounds, I would call some of my Instagram friends like my friend friends, which feels weird to say.

Naomi Katz:

I completely agree. Like there are definitely people that I talk to on Instagram where like, if I were traveling to their part of the country, I would absolutely reach out and be like, oh my god, can we meet.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

That's how we met. Where, you know, yeah okay, so we first met by following each other on Instagram. And then we accidentally ended up sitting next to each other at an in person event around here. Then we like actually made plans and met up for beers together to like bring our relationship into the real world.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes. Not just on the internet.

Naomi Katz:

Right.

Sadie Simpson:

Which, you know, it's funny because that's really out of character for me. I don't know if it is for you. But like, I rarely- honestly, like, that's probably the first time I've ever done that was meet a friend on the internet, and then actually, like, make a point to meet up with them one on one in person. And now, like even thinking back on it, like, whenever I first told Trey, my husband, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go meet my friend Naomi downtown tonight, he was like, okay, that's weird, like, that's not something you've ever done before, but sure.

Naomi Katz:

That's so funny. Like, yes, to some extent, we have to get out of our comfort zone. But that's advice that- it's that just advice that I love so much. When you tell people just get out of your comfort zone, that's a weird thing to say to somebody who has no grounding, necessarily, in like, what is- what's comfort, and what's hiding.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

You know, what's- like what's uncomfortable versus what's unsafe.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

You know, things like that. And again, that's stuff that we learn when we do work around ditching diet culture and stuff like that. And so, it's so much easier when you understand what your comfort zone is, and what's safe versus what's just nervous. I'm the same way though. I am so glad you reached out to me. I have a hard time being the person who reaches out. I am super receptive and excited to accept, but being the person who reaches out is very, very hard for me. So, thanks, Sadie.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. Well, I think that's a really good point, too- again, kind of going back to the whole like, step out of your comfort zone thing, or whatever- really uncharacteristic of me to like, reach out to somebody too. So like, even- like, I would have to have a pretty strong desire to want to reach out to connect with somebody who's essentially a stranger. I had that intuitive feeling. I was like, this is a person that I want to get to know. And I think that there's a lot of value in talking about that and making it not weird. How can we normalize reaching out to people who we think might be interesting, or who we think we might like to hang out with? And be like, Hey, do you want to hang out? And then like, you know, they can always turn us down and it feels uncomfortable for a while. But let's normalize reaching out to people and initiating friendships.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah. And on the flip side of that, let's also normalize being welcoming of that, instead of being like, this is weird.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

I feel like, when we're seeking romantic relationships, while you might be nervous about it, it's normalized to be like, hey, here's my number, want to hang out, when we're talking about romantic relationships. And yet, I feel like that's the kind of thing that people are like, that was weird, if somebody does that for friendship.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes. Well, I will say, like within the last couple of years, I have made a point to get people's numbers. Summer of 2020, there were very few things that we could do because everything was still shut down, and we were still like at home, and COVID was so new. But one of the things that I was able to do was take my kid to the pool because swimming pools were open. And there was another parent there with their kid- like we went every Wednesday at 11:30, and there was always another parent there with their kid every Wednesday at 11:30 too. And like, we'd kind of talk to each other a little bit here and there, like in the pool. But one day after we all got out, I was like, can I get your number? That way, maybe we can plan another time to come here and be here at the same time, because it makes it a lot easier when somebody else is there, and it's not just like me there by myself. And so like, since then, I've reached out to a couple other people that I've just kind of been around in different situations, and like have actively made a point to get other people's numbers- was kind of again, another weird thing for me, but also something that I've done a few times lately.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, let's- let's just normalize that all around. I love it. That's awesome.

Sadie Simpson:

Can I get your number?

Naomi Katz:

Right. Or even here's my number.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

Like that works too.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

So one of the things that I think I have noticed, as I have, you know, done anti diet work, and also as my body has gotten larger, is that I- one of the things that makes me wary about starting friendships with new people, is how often- especially when you're in those early stages of friendship- there's this- like diet talk and body Talk pops up as like this false form of bonding.

Sadie Simpson:

Mm hmm.

Naomi Katz:

So I think it's worth talking about- you know, we've mentioned before how diet talk is harmful- but like maybe talking about that specifically in the context of friendships is worth talking about, too.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, and I'm thinking about specific examples that I've experienced before. And a lot of the things that come to mind are connections and friendships centered around body hate, and body change, and wanting like specifically to lament together about body size, or how clothes fit, or how much weight we may have gained in college, you know, or whatever. It's always just been this negative way to connect around bodies, I can't think of a specific example at all, within the context of diet culture, that there- like it was a positive experience, which makes complete sense.

Naomi Katz:

You know, I think that's one of the reasons why making friends through social media like that is actually really nice, is because there's like a little bit of safety in the fact that you can kind of vet people first. You know, like, I might see that you're in my area, but I'm not going to message you if I see that you've got your weight loss journey posted all over Instagram.

Sadie Simpson:

Exactly.

Naomi Katz:

And so it's kind of nice- there's a little bit of like, knowing what you're going to get. Because I don't know- I mean, I'm at this point, I think a lot of people, especially folks who are in larger bodies, or hold other marginalized identities- like how much safety is there in approaching new people as friends? Like you kind of need to know stuff about them first.

Sadie Simpson:

Mm-hmm.

Naomi Katz:

That can be a real barrier. And then, even people that you feel like, oh, this is probably fine- there's this thing that happens, where you start doing anti diet work, but your friends are still talking about their diets and stuff. And you feel bad about challenging them on that. And you also feel like, oh, I don't want to preach Intuitive Eating to everybody. Like nobody- you know, I'm not here to like, convince people, it's just what I'm doing. And it's so weird that when we're doing intuitive eating stuff, we feel like the ones who have to walk on eggshells, even though what we're doing is objectively less harmful. But people who are talking about their diets don't feel like they have to consider anybody's feelings when they're doing it.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes, I've fully and totally experienced that personally.

Naomi Katz:

I think a lot of it comes down to understandings of consent. You know, diets are inherently non consensual- like rely on, at the very least, lack of information so that you give consent without knowing all the facts, and at worst, literally twisting people's arms and pressuring them to be on diets. So like diet culture, all around, is- is a non consensual thing. Intuitive Eating and anti diet work, on the flip side, is very much based in consent, and autonomy, and information, and stuff like that. And so I feel like, when you're doing that work, you inherently have a better sense of like, I'm not going to inflict this on somebody without their consent. But as a result, we end up in this place where we're not comfortable sharing parts of ourselves with people, because they're still acting non consensually, and we're trying really hard to act from a place of consent

Sadie Simpson:

For anybody who has gone through this whole experience of disengaging from diet culture and embracing Intuitive Eating, versus consistently being on a diet or pursuing intentional weight loss or anything like that, it is a weird waters to navigate. And the way you said like sometimes you do feel like you're walking on eggshells around people who still are immersed in diet culture- like, yes. I don't know a better way to phrase that because that's exactly what it feels like.

Naomi Katz:

Divesting from diet culture is about so much more than just how we relate to food and our bodies.

Sadie Simpson:

Mm-hmm.

Naomi Katz:

It is absolutely a shift in our worldview-

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

-and how we understand the world, and things like that. And so it's just- it becomes really, really hard to actually connect with people who haven't done or aren't doing that same work.

Sadie Simpson:

Mm-hmm.

Naomi Katz:

Like you always kind of feel like you have this space between you.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

And I think it's true even if you have friends who- like you've told them how you feel about this, and they're respecting your boundaries around diet talk, and stuff like that. I feel like you still know that there's stuff that they believe and they talk about with other people that they just aren't saying around you. And so you still have this space where you just

Sadie Simpson:

Mm-hmm. know that you don't align. And that's hard too. It is. There are a lot of things I really hate about the internet- specifically about Instagram, very specifically about trying to be an online business owner and market your business on Instagram, because the algorithm sucks, there's a lot of censorship there that like shouldn't exist within social media. I mean, there's 1,000,001 reasons why I dislike it. However, there's also some positive things about it too. And I think, again, going back to the whole idea of being able to use things like social media to sort of filter through potential friendships, and like kind of vetting people out- like, they're- like, that's invaluable. And that is such a great way to maybe find connection or find community with other people who are experiencing kind of this awakening from diet culture, and just having the opportunity to have spaces for those bigger conversations. Well even like some of these conversations, like what we're having right now. Like, there is just a ton of value in being able to have some of those community connections.

Naomi Katz:

I love the concept of community connection. And I think that it's so interesting, with like people I work with, and I definitely saw it play out for me too, is that you reach a point- like for a while, you're fine with just being in these friendships where you feel like maybe one sided these conversations. You know, like and for a while you're like, yeah, but they're my friends, and everything's fine, and whatever. And then you hit a point where you start to feel the space- where you start to feel like, I just don't feel connected to this person, or to these people- like, I feel like, they don't really know me, or you know, things like that. And then you hit a point where you're like, well, I'm just going to talk about my shit.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

And they can be cool with that, or they can not.

Sadie Simpson:

Yup.

Naomi Katz:

But if we're going to be in- in community, if we're going to be in conversation, if we're going to be in relationship, then I need to be able to share all of me. And you just start to value that like true community and connection.

Sadie Simpson:

Mm hmm.

Naomi Katz:

So much more. And like you're willing to have people go, that's not for me. Even though it's harder, and even though it sometimes requires hard conversations, finding these like authentic friendships outside of diet culture is like so worth it. Because you end up with this space where you get to be fully yourself. And like fully seen in relationship, which is amazing.

Sadie Simpson:

It's so important. And something that we can all take away from this episode is, one, normalizing the awkwardness and weirdness of reaching out to people that we might want to make a connection with. And then finding some of these places, these communities, these individuals, these friendships, that we can really form stronger connections with outside of diet culture. Because, as our tagline says, it does make your whole life more satisfying- like when you're able to connect with people who kind of share some of the similar beliefs and these similar values, and aren't trying to like force you to do a Whole 30 or some crap like that, like it just feels so much better.

Naomi Katz:

Totally. Plus, when you do hang out in person, you don't have to, like, do that whole negotiation of am I eating more than this person? Are they eating more than me? Can we- should we get a plate of fries for the table? Type of stuff. It's just so much easier.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes. Funny you say that- I think it was one of the last times like we actually met in person maybe- god, I don't even know when it was- but uh, we met at a wine bar and you ordered some appetizers, and you were like, do you want any? And I remember sitting there thinking in the moment, I was like, I just ate right before I came, but like I feel weird turning it down because like you're eating, so should I eat. But then I remember saying- I was like, um, no, I really just don't want to eat anything. And like it did not feel super weird.

Naomi Katz:

Agreed. And by the same token, I love that when we do meet up in person, that like if I'm hungry, I can just be like, hey, do you want to get food? And if you don't, I can still get food.

Sadie Simpson:

Yep. And it's not weird.

Naomi Katz:

My hunger is not dependent on yours.

Sadie Simpson:

Exactly. Exactly.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, so like there's obviously like the deeper level of why friendships outside of diet culture are so valuable and wonderful, but like, even on like those more surface levels- like logistically they're better.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, like it just makes things a lot easier, which is welcome when life is often very hard. Alright, Naomi, what is satisfying for you right now?

Naomi Katz:

I just finally started digging into Aubrey Gordon's book, What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat. And I've been- like, this book has been on my list since it came out. And I am just so in love with it already. Like I just- I'm only like a few pages into it, basically. But like Aubrey Gordon is just so brilliant and amazing. Getting to learn from her is an absolute gift. And so I am really, really satisfied with that right now.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes. Aubrey Gordon.

Naomi Katz:

Yes.

Sadie Simpson:

We love everything Aubrey does. I have not read it either. So I need to check it out. Because I am a fan. And I know I will learn a lot.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, I mean, what's also satisfying about this is that how we ended up getting this book is that Ben has started listening to Maintenance Phase, too, and also loves her, and he's actually the one who ordered the book, which I think

Sadie Simpson:

Yes. Oh my gosh, Maintenance Phase is just- it is is amazing. the literal best. Like even if you cared nothing about this type of conversation, even like the kinds of conversations we're having, there is so much to learn from Maintenance Phase on like a global scale. It is just- it's the best.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, I actually got a text the other day from a friend who said thank you so much for mentioning Maintenance Phase in the podcast because now I have another podcast to listen to when I'm waiting for new episodes of yours. And I'm like yes! What about you, Sadie? What satisfying for you?

Sadie Simpson:

You know, now that you mention Aubrey Gordon, and Maintenance Phase, and friendship- kind of tying all of this together- what is satisfying for me is that right before we started recording this episode, I was able to ask you if you'd listened to this week's new Maintenance Phase episode yet, and you were like, yes. So I'm very satisfied to be able to like talk about the episodes with another person because, again, I'm very into them, and I'm excited to share that connection with another person that I could talk about them with.

Naomi Katz:

Totally, I- literally every time I listened to a new episode, I'm like, oh, I can't wait to talk to Sadie about this.

Sadie Simpson:

Same here.

Naomi Katz:

Awesome. I love that. Let us know if you want to hang out.

Sadie Simpson:

All right. If you enjoyed this podcast, we would love to connect with you over on our Instagram page. We are @satisfactionfactorpod. Come on over, comment, send us a direct message. Let us know what you think about this episode. Share about Satisfaction Factor with your friends and your stories because we really appreciate hearing from you and getting your support. Yeah, meetup. We'll have a Satisfaction Factor pod meetup.

Naomi Katz:

If you are enjoying this podcast, one thing that you can do to support us and help us reach more people is leave us a rating and a review in Apple podcasts or Spotify. That moves us up in the rankings, and it means that more people will get to see this podcast and hear it if they choose to. So we really appreciate that.

Sadie Simpson:

That's all for this week. We'll see you next time.