#30 - Finding Your Eating Persona: The Intuitive Eater

This week, we're wrapping up our 4 episode mini-series on the eating personas with a look at The Intuitive Eater.  Spoiler alert! "Becoming an Intuitive Eater" is not actually about reaching a single endpoint, and it's definitely not just about eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're full. Instead, a practice of Intuitive Eating is about cultivating certain skills that can help us to be more resilient to diet culture. This skillset includes: critical thinking, meeting our needs (for food & a whole lot more), autonomy & self-trust, letting go of perfection, and breaking out of binary thinking. In this episode we break down all of these skills, and discuss how a practice of Intuitive Eating is way more about how we move through the world than it is about what or how we choose to eat.

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Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

For this episode's transcript, visit: www.satisfactionfactorpod.com

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Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

Transcript

Naomi Katz: 0:03

Welcome to Satisfaction Factor, the podcast where we explore how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. Welcome back to Satisfaction Factor. I'm Naomi Katz, an Intuitive Eating, body image, and self trust coach.

Sadie Simpson: 0:27

I'm Sadie Simpson, a group fitness instructor, personal trainer, and Intuitive Eating counselor. For the last couple of weeks, we've been talking about three different eating styles, and today we'll wrap up with the final eating style, the intuitive eater. But if you're interested in learning more about the careful eater, the unconscious eater, the professional dieter, and what is involved in these eating personas, and just some nuanced conversations around those things, be sure to check out the last three episodes. But again, today, we're going to be talking about the intuitive eater persona.

Naomi Katz: 1:04

Yeah. And before we dive into that, just a quick reminder that if any of these things resonate with you, or you want to do a little deeper work in identifying your own eating persona, and how to work with that within the Intuitive Eating framework, Sadie and I both offer Intuitive Eating coaching services. I am actually in the process of restructuring what my one to one coaching packages look like, and what that offering is going to be, but you can get on the waitlist at the link in our show notes to be one of the first people to find out what that looks like, and when it reopens.

Sadie Simpson: 1:44

Yeah, and Naomi's program is completely virtual, so if you do not live local to us in western North Carolina, that's a great opportunity to get on the waitlist to work with someone online. I also work with people one on one virtually, but I'm getting ready to begin seeing folks in person at the Black Mountain YMCA. And actually I'll be doing an in person 12 week Intuitive Eating group workshop beginning in May, here in the Asheville area, again, at the Black Mountain YMCA. And I won't go into full detail about that right now, but if you are a local person, and you are looking for some in person Intuitive Eating related programs and services, send me a message on our Instagram page@satisfactionfactorpod, and I will be happy to connect you with more information about that. So today we are talking about the final eating persona in this series, the intuitive eater. And this series was inspired by the eating personalities outlined in the Intuitive Eating books. If you haven't had a chance to check out that resource, be sure to grab a copy or check one out at your local library. But I think it's important to recognize that it's possible to have more than one eating persona. And we've mentioned this in some of the previous episodes. But when we're talking about these eating personas, or these eating styles, generally, one is going to be more dominant than the rest at any given time. Because life can also impact and affect our eating personalities. So there may be certain times in our lives when we're really busy, and we feel that we relate more to that chaotic eating persona, or we're stressed out, or we are grieving something, and we kind of relate more to the emotional eater. There's- there's all kinds of reasons, and there are no bad reasons for relating to one eating persona or the other. Understanding your eating persona or your tendencies is information. It is a good way to kind of recognize where you are now. It's helpful data to collect when you might want to focus on a specific area of work within the Intuitive Eating framework. And I know we both do, you know, not- maybe not specifically focusing in on the eating personas, but kind of looking at Intuitive Eating from an individual basis and meeting people where they are.

Naomi Katz: 4:19

Yeah, definitely. You know, it's like we talked about in the first episode of this little series, but like I don't use the eating personas very often in terms of like identifying them specifically with clients when we first start out, and I know that you do, but like I can totally see how this is a really helpful framework to identify like what might be a good place within the framework to start, what might benefit from attention earlier on versus later, what patterns might we see as we do this work.

Sadie Simpson: 4:52

Yeah. Well, even in the book, we get this summary of these eating styles or these eating personas, and there's a handy little chart in the book, and it kind of lays out all of these four eating personas that we've been talking about the last couple of weeks, and it has the description of what the eating persona is, it has what this eating style may be triggered by, and a description of what a person who relates to this eating style may experience. And I think it's really interesting, when you look at this in the chart, on the column of the intuitive eater, it says that intuitive eaters are triggered by biological hunger, and only by biological hunger. And then an intuitive eater is characterized as someone who makes food choices without experiencing guilt or ethical dilemma, and as someone who honors hunger and fullness, and enjoys the pleasure of eating, and only those things. But I think it's important to point out here that in this chart, in my opinion, anyway, looking back at it, the purpose of it, I believe, is to give people kind of an outline or a template to kind of see some specific differences between these eating personas. And I can remember the first time I read the book, kind of looking at this information, and looking at this chart, and looking at it from a pretty linear perspective, and thinking that there was a pathway to get to becoming the intuitive eater, where I would only experience biological hunger, and never experience all these other things. And I just remember thinking, like, wow, this is gonna be the greatest thing when I finally achieve this goal. And that is not at all how it is, if you have read the book, Intuitive Eating, or if you have seen this chart that I am referring to. The process of becoming an intuitive eater isn't all rainbows and sunshine, and it's definitely not linear. The information that we learn about from the chart and from the book- it's a great template. It's a great outline. But we have to also recognize that Intuitive Eating is not this destination that is going to be accomplished by checking off these specific benchmarks.

Naomi Katz: 7:20

Yeah, I have so many thoughts on that description of the intuitive eater persona. Just right off the bat, my thought is, oh, wow, that sounds, like, a whole lot like the completely unnuanced promise of food freedom that we see all over social media all the time, which is not really a particularly realistic or helpful promise when we're talking about Intuitive Eating. I also- just that whole triggered by biological hunger and only by biological hunger- I just can't get on board with that description, like at all. That seems, again, very unnuanced. And also, I think it's not even just that it's a nuanced- it feels wrong to me. Like I actually think an intuitive eater absolutely eats for reasons other than biological hunger. I think the other thing that I'm butting up against a little bit is like someone who makes food choices, okay, without experiencing guilt I'm on board for, but no ethical dilemmas- like, I feel like you can totally be an intuitive eater and still recognize that certain food choices come with ethical dilemmas or environmental dilemmas or whatever. Like, framing it as no ethical dilemmas is a very unnuanced approach to that. Like, I have a lot of hot takes on this definition of an intuitive eater, honestly.

Sadie Simpson: 8:46

Well, let's get into some of those hot takes throughout the rest of this episode.

Naomi Katz: 8:50

Yes, I think that's a great idea.

Sadie Simpson: 8:54

It'll be a good platform for you to hot take it away.

Naomi Katz: 8:58

So before I drop all my hot takes on what I would consider an intuitive eater to be. Sadie, how would you define an intuitive eater? Since I think both of us are kind of uncomfortable with the book definition.

Sadie Simpson: 9:10

I think one of the misconceptions about Intuitive Eating- and honestly some of these misconceptions comes from the book- like for- on a personal level, I had some of these misconceptions when I first learned about Intuitive Eating- was that the primary focus was to honor your hunger, to respect your fullness- and definitely like to incorporate these other principles, these other components of Intuitive Eating- but these were the two initial features that I thought represented Intuitive Eating, and I think that's a common assumption that a lot of people have when they go into doing this work. And one of the reasons why it is a common assumption is that it's kind of defined in this chart of describing what an intuitive eater is. But after years of doing this work personally, and now professionally, I think, to sum it up in a simple definition, would be an intuitive eater is someone who prioritizes eating foods they like, when they have the opportunity to do that. But I think that there's just so much nuance to go into that. Even throughout these previous three episodes level, we're talking about things like the chaotic eater, and the emotional eater, and the professional dieter, and all that sort of stuff. Like we go through these phases of our lives when we may relate more to a chaotic eater or to an emotional eater. And I think to define an intuitive eater as simply being somebody who honors their hunger and honors their fullness, without taking all of these other outside factors into consideration, does everybody a disservice. So I guess that is a really roundabout way of saying, I don't know that I have a specific definition for describing an intuitive eater. But yeah, I wonder how to wrap that up in a packet, which I would love to do, but I can't do it.

Naomi Katz: 11:16

I love that answer a whole lot. And I- first of all, I loved that it was roundabout because I think we're going to get into some ways that we can sort of build a framework around, like, what is an intuitive eater, if not somebody who only responds to biological hunger, and honors fullness, and stuff like that. And I also think that, like, you just hit the nail on the head. Like, I think one of the reasons why it's so hard to define is because it's not one static thing. Being an intuitive eater- which, again, you know, we've talked about, it's not an endpoint, it's not like you check all these boxes, and then you, like, become an intuitive eater- still, you know, being an intuitive eater is not an all or nothing proposition. It's like, I am an intuitive eater most of the time for most of us. And what being an intuitive eater looks like, in that most of the time realm, is also going to be really different for each of us based on our needs, and our lives, and our experiences, and so many other things that, you know, we've talked about a ton. Yeah, I'm excited to sort of dig in and like, maybe try and like framework this a little bit. If an intuitive eater isn't one thing, then how do we know if we're an intuitive eater?

Sadie Simpson: 12:39

Oh my gosh, yes.

Naomi Katz: 12:40

Then like, what are we striving for when we practice Intuitive Eating?

Sadie Simpson: 12:44

Yes, ooh, I already love that so much- instead of defining what is an intuitive eater, what are we striving for through this practice? I am a fan of that language. Yes.

Naomi Katz: 12:56

Yeah. You know, we've sort of talked about this through the podcast series- and really all of our episodes- is That can- that can be a helpful way to start, so- that intuitive eating is not just your personal experience. You have to look at it through a personal lens and through a social lens. It's about looking at what our personal work is, and where our work needs to take place on a societal level, and what's in our control to change about our own behaviors, and where change is really dependent on a systemic level change. You know, that's one of the reasons why this is so nuanced. I think one of the things that can be really helpful- I think- I feel like I do this a lot, because this is definitely how I approach the whole, like, what does anti diet mean- is like, well, let's look at what it means to be pro. Like what are anti dieters pro? And so let's look at what being an intuitive eater doesn't mean.

Sadie Simpson: 13:52

Oh, yeah, I think that will be really helpful.

Naomi Katz: 13:57

So, being an intuitive eater does not mean that we never have diet-y thoughts again. That's like the number one thing that is so important to recognize. You can be an intuitive eater and still, every once in a while, think to yourself, hmm, Noom seems cool. Like, you know, the thoughts are never really the thing. It's the actions. It's our ability to reframe them. It's what impact the thoughts have on our lives. Being an intuitive eater is definitely not never having a bad body image day again. Those are definitely going to happen. We just- we live in the world that we live in. It's impossible to entirely eradicate those kinds of thoughts and experiences from our lives, especially for people who are in marginalized bodies. So like, you know, bodies that society judges and deems less than- those people are definitely going to internalize those thoughts, and those thoughts will continue to happen. And, again, it's about what we do with those thoughts. Being an intuitive eater is not about never being impacted by diet culture again. Literally impossible. We're never going to escape diet culture, for one thing. It just- it's everywhere. And, you know, the reality is some days it's gonna get to us. Again, probably more so depending on on, you know, the- our various intersections of privilege and marginalization. Being an intuitive eater is not about always knowing the exact right way to meet your needs, whether that's about food or anything else. Sometimes we're still just not really going to know what it is we need in the moment. It's not- we've mentioned a number of times- just about eating when you're hungry, stopping when you're full, and being perfectly satisfied every time. It is not permanent freedom from food thoughts- so that, like, ubiquitous food freedom promise. And it's not a thing that you achieve and never think about or work on ever again. You know, it's like we've been saying- it's not an endpoint. It's not like, oh, I've ticked that box, I'm an intuitive eater, and I never have to think about this ever again. That's not how this works.

Sadie Simpson: 16:10

I think my favorite thing about this list of things that becoming an intuitive eater is not is that everything that you mentioned is related to becoming an intuitive Eater is not never, or not always. It's not about absolutes at all, because there are no absolutes here. And I think that's so important to remember.

Naomi Katz: 16:33

Yeah, that's totally true. I love the way you phrased that, too- is that, like, the number one thing is that it's One of the common criticisms about Intuitive Eating just on not about absolutes. It's all about the gray areas and the nuance. So okay, if that's all the things that it's not- which is fine- I think the thing that it really is, is that, quote unquote, being an intuitive eater is really more about what skills we might have to address these things, and to build a resilience to all of these things in our lives going forward. So Intuitive Eating is really more about like a set of skills that we've cultivated, that we can apply to our own lives, including our food choices, but not limited to our food choices. And again, that's going to really look different for everyone. So having said that, let's talk about what some of those skills are, right? The biggest skill that we get from a practice of Intuitive Eating that allows us to address things like diet-y thoughts, and bad body image, and diet culture, and food thoughts, and et cetera, is critical thinking. I truly, truly believe that the ability to think critically about the systems that we live in, and the information that we receive within those systems, is the greatest skill that we learn in the practice of Intuitive Eating. And the reason for that is that, you know, living in diet culture for basically our whole lives really makes us very obedient to rules, and like very much willing to follow without question. It's not our fault. It's not like a statement of judgment. It's not like we're gullible, or we're stupid, or anything like that. It's just conditioning from being in diet culture, it's what we've been conditioned to do. A practice of Intuitive Eating really teaches us to do the opposite of that. We learn to examine what values and systems the rules uphold. You know, we learned to look more closely and more deeply at the sources of our information, and who's benefiting from those beliefs and those behaviors. We learn about the bypassing that claims of authority do, and like how they invalidate our lived experiences. And we learned that that all or nothing, one size fits all- like those kinds of solutions really just don't work. All they really do is cause harm to the people who don't fit the one size fits all. Cultivating that skill of critical thinking- it teaches us- it helps us to learn that we can push back and question the things that don't feel right. And again, that applies way outside of what we eat, or how we move our bodies, or anything like that. the mainstream internet is that it is, quote unquote, giving up, and you are allowing yourself to just, you know, eat whatever, whenever, without any consideration of how what you eat affects you physically or mentally. But what is ironic is that what is often assumed to be like the easy way out, or the, quote unquote, easy way out would be Intuitive Eating, but really it's not easy. Because there- it causes you to question everything you have ever assumed to be true about bodies, and about food, and nutrition, and health, which then causes you to question everything you've believed to be true about food systems, and food policy, and health from a like governmental and policy standpoint. And so it really just opens up this door for you to have to like critically think about literally everything. We probably both tell people this all the time, that like, without a doubt, it is easier to just diet, to just like follow a set of rules. And like, there's no question that that is the easier option. It is unsustainable. It does harm. It often doesn't align with our values. There's a lot of reasons why the easy option is not necessarily the right option for us, and why we might opt for the more difficult option. But make no mistake, it's the more difficult option.

Sadie Simpson: 21:06

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 21:07

So moving on to the next skill of the intuitive eater, is the ability to meet our needs. A big part of intuitive eating is learning that we deserve to have our needs met. Again, when you look at what diet culture teaches us in contrast, diet culture teaches us that our needs are problems, that we need to suppress them or ignore them. Practicing Intuitive Eating helps us recognize that our needs are valid, and that we deserve to honor them. The really important part of this is that when we're talking about needs, we're not just talking about food. Like that's an important one. But we're also talking about emotional needs, and social needs, and mental needs, and spiritual needs. We're talking about needs like boundaries, and sleep, and support, and medical care, and just like all the things. Definitely not just, well, what do I need to eat, and how do I need to move. Not that those aren't important, but they're such a small fraction of all the needs that we deserve to have met. And when we believe that our needs are valid, and we believe that we deserve to honor them, that also allows us to advocate for getting those needs met, whether that means asking for help, or having difficult conversations or, you know, shifting our priorities, or whether it means looking outside ourselves and seeking like additional support to do some deeper work, whatever that might be. This skill is very much about remembering that our needs don't come last, that they're not too much, they're not a problem. It really changes how we move through the world when we recognize that, yes, we have needs, yes, we're allowed to have needs, and yes, we deserve to have those needs met. Another skill set that's really integral to being an intuitive eater is autonomy and self trust. Again, you're the expert on your own experience and your own needs. We say this all the time on this podcast, and we say it all the time because it's so important to really- just- you- we can't say it enough, considering how many things in the world are telling us the exact opposite. So we like to repeat things because sometimes things need to be repeated. Again, you know, if we contrast this with diet culture, diet culture makes us believe that we can't be trusted to make choices for ourselves, that we're not trustworthy, and practicing Intuitive Eating flips that. It really teaches us that we are trustworthy, our bodies are trustworthy, our minds are trustworthy, our emotions are trustworthy. We also learn that informed consent is an incredibly important part of autonomy. When we make decisions based on misinformation, that's not autonomous, that's manipulation. When we're looking at shoulds instead of whys- is how I kind of like to phrase that- we really are like giving up our autonomy over these decisions. And autonomy is very much a key factor in self trust. The ability to determine things for ourselves, and, you know, make choices that are in alignment with our values, and that are like conscious decisions instead of autopilot type of things- getting to that point really helps us to cultivate that self trust because we're acting in alignment with ourselves, with our values, and our priorities.

Sadie Simpson: 24:32

I know we're specifically talking about the intuitive eater persona. I think this really shows up a lot on the movement side of things too- talking about an intuitive exerciser, or somebody who has developed the skills to prioritize autonomy and self trust in a movement setting, too. Because a lot of what we're told on the exercise side of things is that like you have to, you know, go hard, and you have to do all these high intensity cardio exercise classes six days out of the week, and all that sort of stuff. When we've heard this messaging so many times, we do not have the opportunity to develop the skills to trust our bodies to move safely, or to move without injuring ourselves, or to move in a way that doesn't feel like we're beating ourselves down. I think that's a really similar thing here is making choices on movement, and instead of making movement decisions based on what we think we, quote unquote, should do, based on like what we've always been told our whole lives, we can begin to cultivate some autonomy and personal choice in- in our movement behaviors too.

Naomi Katz: 25:49

That's kind of the whole thing, is that all of these skills, yeah, we can apply them to food, but the reality is they apply to just life in general.

Sadie Simpson: 25:53

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 25:53

And applying this to movement is a great way to practice it and cultivate it, so that we can also apply it to food, and we can also apply it to other areas of our lives. So that's kind of why I'm like, well, what is being an intuitive eater? And it's how we move through the world more than it's about what we're eating, or when we're eating, or anything like that.

Sadie Simpson: 26:23

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 26:24

So one of the other life skills of being an intuitive eater is the ability to let go of perfection. You know, we've talked a lot about the problems with perfection on this podcast before, and that perfection is very much based on what the dominant culture says perfection is, and all of that- that it's unattainable. And, you know, that's really the thing- is like, perfection is kind of a myth, because, like, perfect for who? And so, again, to contrast this with diet culture, diet culture very much enforces the idea that there is a perfect way to eat, a perfect way to exercise, a perfect way to look, and that all of those things are going to like solve all of our problems, and that that perfection would be achievable if we just worked hard enough. When we practice Intuitive Eating, what we learn is that there's no such thing as perfection. It's a construct that's, you know, created by this dominant culture that's meant to keep us distracted, to keep us blaming ourselves for our problems instead of the systems that create them, and like, really, to just, like, keep us on this hamster wheel of constantly chasing something. But there is no such thing as perfect eating, perfect exercise, perfect nutrition, a perfect body, especially in a one size fits all perfection kind of a context. And what we sort of come to realize through, you know, working through Intuitive Eating, through practicing Intuitive Eating, is that all we can ever really strive for is doing our best with the resources we have, in alignment with our lives, our needs, and our values. And that's enough, that's fine. You could say it's perfect, but you don't have to say it's perfect, because perfect is not a thing.

Sadie Simpson: 28:08

I think this is one of the biggest things that I struggle with sometimes when I'm working with folks, whether it is through the Intuitive Eating framework, or through teaching a group fitness class, or when I'm working with somebody in personal training, is kind of breaking through this mainstream message of you have to be this way, you are expected to eat this way, and to move this way, and to look this way. And it's just- it's really challenging for a lot of people to kind of get past this. Because even- well, and even personally, like doing this work for so long, I mean, we're still living in diet culture, we're still being bombarded by all of these messages and expectations, that it can be a real challenge to work through the perfection aspect of it. But again, that's- that is a part of this work. And as cliche as it sounds, becoming an intuitive eater- or, you know, as we're talking about in this episode, there's not really a perfect definition of what an intuitive eater is. It is about the journey, not about the destination, and about constantly doing this work, and examining where we may have some opportunities to either improve upon one area, or just to let some things go and not even focus on certain things that we at one point may have thought were a big deal.

Naomi Katz: 29:37

Absolutely. The last sort of skill of an intuitive eater is the ability to break out of the binary. So I think even already in today's episode, and I know definitely in other episodes, we've talked a lot about how things aren't black and white, all or nothing. They're nuanced. They're gray areas. They're all of these things. Last time, to contrast with what we learned in diet culture, diet culture frames things very often as either/or scenarios- like you're either healthy or you're not, you're either fit or you're not, all these different like either/or binary things. Practicing Intuitive Eating really teaches us that most of the time- again, not all the time- most of the time, you know, things are more both/and than either/or. You know, we realize that things like that we can be uncomfortable in our bodies and our situations with food, with movement, whatever, and we can make choices that honor our needs. We can be scared of all kinds of things, especially on a societal level, and we can still advocate for ourselves. We can love people- our family, our friends, our co workers, whatever- and we can set boundaries with those people in order to protect our own emotional, and mental, and even physical well being. We can do personal work, and invest in personal work, and make big strides in personal work, and know that there are bigger systems that need to be dismantled in order for greater change to happen. I mentioned earlier that the thing about these skills is that they are skills that allow us to be resilient to diet culture, and marginalization of our bodies, and judgment about food, and all of those things, and I think this skill in particular is especially important in cultivating that resiliency. Because diet culture doesn't go away, and there's definitely going to be times when we want to go back to it because, like we said, it's the easier way- like it is a lot easier not to be constantly swimming upstream, and analyzing, and thinking, and reframing, and whatever. There's going to be times when diet culture harms us, and we can still trust ourselves, we can still honor our needs, we can still think critically, we can still make autonomous choices, we can still let go of perfection. Like we can still practice all of these other skills, because we've got that both/and instead of that either/or. So basically, you know, all of this just brings us back to this idea that there's no such thing as just becoming an intuitive eater, and that being- quote unquote, being- an intuitive eater doesn't just look like one thing. Because when you think about all those different skills, how those get practiced, and what those look like in real life, are going to be really, really different for different people. They're very personal, nuanced skills. They're not like, oh, I know how to measure the calories and whatever, or something like that. It's a very- it's a much more subtle, like, soft skill, I guess you could call it. And so it's gonna look really different for different people. You know, the practice doesn't stop. There isn't a stopping point. It's all about, you know, the lifelong practice of disengaging from diet culture, peeling back the layers of our own experiences, practicing becoming attuned with our bodies- because that shifts constantly too, when our bodies change, when our situation changes, like all of that stuff- and just sort of learning to respect both our bodies and the bodies of others. This is a practice. We're just always doing it from here on out. The goal is not necessarily to be at a place where there's no work left to do. It's just to be in a place where we feel more grounded in our own beliefs that this is the work we want to be doing. And hopefully, we're more connected to our own ability to continue to do that work. The goal is resiliency and the ability to move through the world of diet culture, not so much to just only eat when you're hungry, or stop when you're full.

Sadie Simpson: 33:55

Oh my gosh, I think you just gave me my definition right there in that last little section. Oh yeah, I love that so much. And I'm glad we were able to do this series breaking down these different eating personas, because I think in the book, we- you know, we just give the textbook definition of all of these things. And it's really, really important to recognize that when you're working through the Intuitive Eating framework, and when you're working on disengaging from diet culture, it goes beyond what the textbook says. It requires a lot of deep personal work, it requires recognizing nuance, it requires adjusting what you think is your definition of what an intuitive eater is, and really questioning that, and how it shows up in not only like your own life, but just in the world. So that wraps up our mini series on the four eating personas.

Naomi Katz: 35:00

Yeah, I've loved this series. I'm so glad that we did this. It was fun to really talk through the nuances of each of these personas. And, you know, especially, I personally didn't come into the series with like a whole lot of knowledge about the eating personas, other than the intuitive eater, which I've given a lot of thought to over the years. But I feel like I came to a lot of realizations about the the nuances of these personas, like even just as we were talking through them. So yeah, this was a fun series to do. For me, at least. I hope our listeners as well.

Sadie Simpson: 35:37

All right, Naomi, what is satisfying for you right now?

Naomi Katz: 35:42

As we are recording this, last week, I started working with a personal trainer for the first time in a very, very, very long time. I started working with our friend Betsy of All Bodies Movement and Wellness in Asheville. PS, go check out her episode, if you have not done so. She's awesome. Like, I don't even know how to explain how happy I am with doing this. I literally have only seen Betsy once at this point, and I feel like my life is different.

Sadie Simpson: 36:11

That's awesome.

Naomi Katz: 36:12

But I think a big part of it is that I am really enjoying being able to go into this experience without any sense of, like, it being about accountability, or about body change, or about like even hitting any specific goals- just being able to approach this from a place of like- like just generally wanting to meet one of my needs, you know. Like, and the reality is it meets several needs for me. You know, it makes my body feel better, it makes me feel better emotionally and mentally. Because I love Betsy, it's like a social interaction, and it meets that kind of a need too. And so yeah, it just- I'm feeling so satisfied about like the whole experience already. So yeah.

Sadie Simpson: 36:59

I'm so happy to hear that. And yeah, Betsy has a really special place that I feel like what you just shared is a really common experience of a lot of the folks we see coming in there, which is the goal. So yay.

Naomi Katz: 37:16

Totally. What about you, Sadie, what's what's satisfying you right now?

Sadie Simpson: 37:20

Recently, I've really been into American Idol. And I don't know if I've shared this before or not, we've got different streaming services, but we also have an antenna, and our antenna only picks up one channel, and it's ABC. So we basically watch anything that comes on ABC, which happens to be, right now, American Idol, coming on primetime TV on Sunday nights and Monday nights. But when American Idol first came out 20 years ago, because this is the 20th anniversary-

Naomi Katz: 37:49

I cannot believe that American Idol is still on. I didn't- I didn't know it was still on.

Sadie Simpson: 37:57

Me either, until it showed up on our antenna ABC channel. But the- yeah, like whenever it first came out, American Idol was my jam. Like I loved that show so much. I even went to see American Idol tour at the Charlotte Coliseum. Like it was the best thing ever. And then, you know, went to college, stopped watching American Idol, forgot it even existed until this year. And I'm just super into it, and I there's a couple of reasons, I think. Just because, one, it's like just some good ol wholesome TV to watch right now. That- you know I love me some reality TV, but it's nice to take a break from like trashy dating shows, and just watch like a talent competition for once. But it's kind of nostalgic to just to be like, man, I watched this 20 years ago, and was really into it then, and I'm watching it now, and really look forward to this every week. It is like one of my TV highlights of the week right now.

Naomi Katz: 38:56

That is awesome. Do you want to know a fun Naomi and American Idol trivia fact?

Sadie Simpson: 39:03

Yes, please tell me.

Naomi Katz: 39:04

I don't know if I've told you this before, I actually knew somebody who competed on American Idol in one of the first seasons. Do you remember Constantine Maroulis from-

Sadie Simpson: 39:17

Oh yeah.

Naomi Katz: 39:19

I actually knew him. He used to do community theater with one of my very close friends in the town where I grew up.

Sadie Simpson: 39:26

He was such a babe when I watched that show back in the day.

Naomi Katz: 39:28

We thought so too. Little American Idol trivia for you there.

Sadie Simpson: 39:35

I love that, and I'm excited to see who our American Idol is this year on the 20th anniversary of the show.

Naomi Katz: 39:43

Blows my mind. That's awesome.

Sadie Simpson: 39:47

If you enjoyed this episode, and you would like to connect with us, and let us know who your all time favorite American Idol contestant has been, come find us on Instagram. We are @satisfactionfactorpod, and leave us a comment, send us a message.

Naomi Katz: 40:03

Another thing that you can do to help us reach more people is you can leave a rating or a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. That bumps us up a little bit and helps more people find us, so we very much appreciate when y'all do that.

Sadie Simpson: 40:19

And we just really love reading your feedback. It makes our day a little brighter.

Naomi Katz: 40:24

Yes, my favorite thing ever is when I get messages from Sadie like, look at this new review.

Sadie Simpson: 40:32

Yes, we see them all. We love them all. All right, that's all for us this week. We'll see you next time.