Satisfaction Factor

#32 - Communicating Our Needs: Skills for Mother's Day & Beyond

May 01, 2022 Naomi Katz & Sadie Simpson
Satisfaction Factor
#32 - Communicating Our Needs: Skills for Mother's Day & Beyond
Show Notes Transcript

This week, we're building on a conversation Sadie started on her Facebook page around Mother's Day last year about how we can better communicate our needs & wants in order to make the day more satisfying. In this episode, we're exploring how this concept applies far beyond holidays & talking about: the importance of treating communication as a skill we can hone; why repetition is kind; why it's helpful to understand the different ways that people prefer to communicate; the benefits of boundaries; and how learning to communicate our needs can make our whole lives more satisfying. Plus, we each share about how we practice & hone these communication skills in our own work & personal relationships!

You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @thesadiesimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

For this episode's transcript, visit: www.satisfactionfactorpod.com

Naomi Katz:

Welcome to Satisfaction Factor, the podcast where we explore how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. Welcome back to Satisfaction Factor. I'm Naomi Katz, an Intuitive Eating, body image, and self trust coach.

Sadie Simpson:

I'm Sadie Simpson, a group fitness instructor, personal trainer, and Intuitive Eating counselor.

Naomi Katz:

This week, we are talking about communication- why communication is hard, but also why it's an important and necessary skill to work on if we're seeking to get our needs met.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. And the overall theme of this podcast, as you probably already know, is about how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. But we kind of have an underlying theme, part two, that you may have also noticed, is that we often talk a lot about skill building around here. And that's a big part of ditching diet culture and making our whole lives more satisfying. Because in order to really enrich our own lives and to live a more satisfying life that feels in alignment with our personal values, and our desires, and our goals, and all of that stuff, it's all about building the skill set to do so.

Naomi Katz:

And we should also say that, like, as far as the timing for this episode goes, one of the reasons we decided that this was a good time for this is because this coming weekend is Mother's Day. And Sadie actually had a wonderful post that she put up around Mother's Day last year, that was sort of all about how communication comes into play in terms of expectations and things like that around Mother's Day. So Sadie, how do you feel about just sort of telling us a little bit more about that, and how that came to be?

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, I cannot exactly remember verbatim what that post said. And as we're recording this, it's too early to pop up on my Facebook memories. So I can't scroll that far back in my newsfeed to find it. But the post that I made was inspired by some mom groups that I am a part of on Facebook. So last year, leading up to Mother's Day, there was a lot of chatter in a lot of these local mom Facebook groups about the build up to Mother's Day, and then the fallout of the disappointment of not getting flowers from your partner and children, or not receiving the gifts that you thought you might would receive from your family for Mother's Day, and things like that. And it was really interesting to see kind of the back and forth communication in these mom Facebook groups about the expectation of Mother's Day and the disappointment of Mother's Day. And the post I made was something along the lines of, hey, I am not an expert mother, but I am an expert in not really caring about giving and receiving gifts, so here's my two cents on how to communicate to your partner and your family about what your expectations are in regards to Mother's Day, and what you would like to see happen on that day.

Naomi Katz:

I vividly remember this post because, while I am not a mother, I certainly know mothers, and also this applies to everybody- like not just mothers. And I remember reading your post because the thing that really stuck out to me was like, you know, what would be really helpful in terms of not being disappointed would be if you just asked for what you wanted.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

And like that really, really resonated with me, even not as a mom. And I just- I was so excited to get an opportunity to like talk about that more this week, especially leading up to Mother's Day, but, again, as a skill that will be helpful for everybody.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, well, it's funny now that you say that. Whenever we see other people's posts on Facebook, or Instagram, or any social media outlet, you never know what other people are going to latch on to, or relate to, or resonate with. And it's really interesting to hear other people comment back to you on things you posted on what stood out to them and what was like the most important part of that post. It's kind of interesting slash also a little bit weird to hear somebody talk about what you posted on social media.

Naomi Katz:

That is 100% true. I'm always like wait, people are reading stuff?

Sadie Simpson:

Seriously. Same. Well, this whole episode will be not just about Mother's Day, but using that post kind of as a jumping off point to talk more about communication, and how to communicate our wants and our needs as a way to make our whole lives more satisfying. And this is gonna sound super cliche, but I think it's a really good analogy that a lot of folks can relate to- when we're looking to strengthen a particular area or improve upon a particular skill set, you've got to put the reps in. It's just like lifting weights, if you want to build strength, you have to consistently put in more reps, put in more sets, continue to build upon a foundation to grow your strength. And that's the same thing that can be applied to a lot of other areas, but especially with communication, because communication is hard. It is really, really, really challenging to vocally, verbally communicate what we want and what we need, when we're just not used to doing that.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, there is a gender component to this, too. So like, I think that's one of the reasons why we see stuff like this come up in mom groups and things like that. There's a lot of tropes, especially for those of us who have been raised as girls or as women- you know, when you think about like the nagging wife, or, you know, the high maintenance girlfriend, or needy, clingy- like all of these things are labels that are applied to us when we vocalize our wants and our needs. And so there's some work that goes into overcoming that. And yeah, practice is totally the key to that.

Sadie Simpson:

And that's a good point, too, because a lot of times when we do regularly and consistently communicate directly, we're often labeled as being too much, or being too bossy, or being too bitchy, or whatever. And there's just no winning here.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, that's absolutely true. And, you know, we see that there's like a million memes out there about like, you know, the way women communicate at work- and we'll talk more about this later- but how we always use this, like, softening language, and questioning, and things like that. Because when women communicate directly, we're often seen as all of those things.

Sadie Simpson:

Well, and then another thing, too, that we'll hit on throughout the rest of this episode, is just the idea of conflict. And conflict isn't fun. No one likes it. I don't think. There may be some sectors of the population out there that thrive off of conflict. I know I'm not one of those people. But our resistance to conflict creates this challenge. Sometimes what we want and what we need might not align with what the other person wants and needs. But failing to clearly and consistently communicate our thoughts, or wants, or needs, it generally doesn't do anybody any favors. And instead, it really sets everybody up for disappointment, for resentment, and even more conflict.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, I really see this as a parallel to how we're always talking about that you need to build awareness of something first, because you can't address it until you know that it's there. And I feel like communicating our needs is sort of that in an interpersonal dynamic, instead of within ourselves. Where communicating your needs doesn't necessarily mean that the person is going to be willing or able to meet them. They might have needs that are in conflict to your needs. Just asking for something doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get that thing, right? But at least you can talk about it. You'll never know if you can get that need met if you don't communicate it at all. Nobody can meet needs that they don't know exist.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes, I think that is really the key to this whole thing, is that people can't read your mind, so we have to tell people stuff.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, absolutely.

Sadie Simpson:

And speaking of us telling people stuff and communicating our wants and needs, if you have found value in the Satisfaction Factor podcast, and you enjoy this podcast, one simple thing you can do to support us that only takes a few minutes is to leave us a review in Apple podcasts and in Spotify. So specifically in Apple podcasts, if you open up Satisfaction Factor on the mobile app, scroll to the bottom and click on a little purple link that says ratings and review, and there will be another link that says write a review. We would really appreciate that because that helps us get our message out and helps us reach more people.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, absolutely. And just to sort of add to that, the other thing that can be really helpful is to just share about the podcast with people that you know. Sharing in your Instagram stories or on your Facebook- the more people know about us, the more people can hear us talk about these things that they might find helpful.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

So let's talk a little bit about how this kind of clear communication can play out in some different contexts. And we can sort of, you know, maybe start with the one that we that originally inspired this whole conversation, which is, you know, things like birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays, and Mother's Day- how we can set expectations, and meet expectations, and all of that, within that context.

Sadie Simpson:

So even going back to what we were talking about at the beginning of setting this expectation around Mother's Day, I've never really been a gift person, as a teenager, through adulthood, I think. I mean, as a child, every kid likes to give and receive gifts. But as I got older, the material gifts really started to be more stressful and less joyful for me. And I feel like I was probably like, maybe 15, 16, my sisters and I decided that we were going to stop giving each other Christmas gifts and, like, just do fun stuff together. And since then, we had always prioritized just going on like little weekend trips and doing fun things together, instead of giving each other gifts for Christmases, and birthdays, and things like that. And I think that has just, over time, evolved into minimizing gift giving and receiving expectations. For me personally, even Trey and I do this. When we first started dating, we gave each other stuff, but I couldn't even tell you the last time we gave each other like a regular gift that you unwrap for a birthday, or Valentine's Day, or anniversary, or anything like that. Because we have also communicated over and over and over again to each other that we would rather just spend the money on going on a trip, or do something a little bit differently. But I think the key to that is consistent communication. Like before every single holiday, we have a little conversation about it. Like before Christmas, hey, are you getting me anything? Am I getting you anything? What are we going to do? And generally the outcome is the same, oh, let's just plan a trip over spring break or something like that for our Christmas presents to each other. But it is a constant conversation that we have before pretty much every single holiday.

Naomi Katz:

I love that you called it a constant conversation, because I feel like that's the thing about communication, is that sometimes we think we just say it once, and then we've done the communicating, and, like, the reality is that, like, you have to always be having the conversation, because people's expectations change, people's needs change, people's relationship to these things change. So I love that you called it that. Yeah, I mean, Ben and I have a- kind of a similar situation. Well, it's I love that so much. Well, just a couple of things about that. not- Ben and I do get each other gifts, and we love getting each other gifts. But we definitely have a pattern of communication and understanding around it that has shifted and changed over One, it's really- it's kind of cool to hear how y'all navigate time. So we have- we, kind of right from the very beginning, definitely talked about which occasions are gift occasions and the holidays and gift giving. It's just kind of neat to hear which occasions are not. So like we don't really celebrate Valentine's Day. We don't do gifts for anniversaries, but we do go out to dinner- so like there's an acknowledgment of it, how other people handle this out in the world, versus like just but not a gift. Really we only do gifts for birthdays and Christmas. Again, this is an understanding that we came to together, that we like talked about and agreed on, not just expanding out of your own world and your own little bubble. But, like, oh, gosh, I wonder how this is gonna play out every year. Like we- there's no surprise in that. Very early on, we definitely surprised each other with with gifts. And don't you know, something that I do struggle with is recognizing get me wrong, Ben actually still surprises me with gifts like gangbusters. But at some point, Ben started telling me basically that other people outside of my own little world and my own exactly what he wanted for holidays and birthdays. And it was interesting because, for a while, I would feel guilty about little bubble really value surprises, and gifts, and things getting him something off of his list, or like getting him something that he specifically told me he wanted, because I felt like it meant I wasn't putting in enough effort. And like that. And sometimes our expectations are completely the flip side of that is that I always felt really weird telling him what I wanted when he would ask me, because I felt really uncomfortable asking for things. But then, like, I kind of different. So I have to do a lot of work personally, in realized that, one, he actually wanted the things that he was asking for. So giving him those things wasn't shortchanging him, recognizing that, oh, I am going to this wedding shower, or this it was literally giving him something that he wanted. And isn't that kind of the point of gift giving? Like, it's really about the other person, not about me, and like how impressive my gift giving might be, or like how much effort I baby shower, maybe this person doesn't want cash. I'm probably put in, or something like that. It's really about, did this person get what they want. And two, he was actually doing something really kind by telling me what he wanted, instead of going to give them cash anyway. But maybe that they're going to expecting me to guess and like read his mind. And then lastly, three, that I could return that favor by actually telling him what I want, and not making him guess or read my mind. Now I get be disappointed by my gift, and just being okay with that. And I him the stuff he asks for. My contribution to that is that I keep track of those asks throughout the year- where, like, when he mentions something, I have a little list really liked hearing the whole, like sometimes you do go off that I keep on my computer, so that when the time comes, I can pull from that list and get him something. And I tell him what I want when he asks. And it's just so much easier for both of us. book- most of the time you have your list of things that you And then there's also this added element- because sometimes one or the other of us will sort of go off book, so to speak, and want to get Ben, and for the most part he knows what he wants like get something that's surprising- and there's like an added element to that, even, because we're not doing it because we don't know what somebody wants, we're doing it to get you based on what you've communicated, but every once in because we saw something that we are 100% certain that person is going to, like, absolutely love. And it happens to not be on their list, and it'll be a surprise, which is cool. But we a while there's like a little element of surprise in there. don't have to guess And I will say, I think it was like two or three years ago,

Sadie Simpson:

Well, it's also so interesting, because what- he Trey and I had discussed that we were not going to give each other anything for Christmas, and I woke up on Christmas heard you communicating a need, even if like you weren't morning, and he said check your email, and he gave me a gift card to a clothing store that specifically said please go buy necessarily expecting him to fill it, he was still- like, a couple of pairs of yoga pants/pants that you need to wear for exercise and for teaching your classes. Because I had told him- for like months, I was like, gosh, I need to go honestly, that's kind of what I do with Ben through the year, is shopping, but I don't want to. And that gave me the motivation to buy some clothes that I desperately needed to buy. So it was like a surprise gift slash also a very practical thing, he'll just mention stuff that he wants, or that he needs, or which I really loved, because I just like stuff that is practical and is useful. So it was a win win for everyone. Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

I will also say, the other thing that I- that- the twist that Ben puts on this, which I think is hilarious, is whatever, and I'll write it down. That's a very similar he will very often get me something that I have asked for, thing that Trey did there. And that's awesome. but he will tell me, you're not getting that thing. And he'll tell it to me so much that I come to believe that I'm not getting the thing. And then I get the thing and I'm super surprised, even though it's something that I have literally asked for.

Sadie Simpson:

That's awesome. I love that.

Naomi Katz:

Fun twist on that one.

Sadie Simpson:

So another example that I think is worth mentioning is talking a little bit about communication in a job or a work related situation. Because I know a lot of folks struggle- and I am putting myself in that category in the past- but a lot of folks struggle with poor communication in the workplace.

Naomi Katz:

Most definitely. There's so many people out there who just will say yes to absolutely anything, or, you know, take too much onto their plate, or just sit there being miserable, because they can't ask for what they want or what they need at their job. And listen, we should probably preface this with, like, there's a lot of privilege in being able to be in the position where you can ask for what you need. Like, I think, especially when it comes to work. We need to work to live, basically. And so, you know, having the security to be able to ask for what we need is definitely a privilege. And I think maybe more of us have that privilege than we acknowledge, or that we- or than, like- that we really know how to use it.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, well, you hear- and we have all, at some point, have experienced- just this whole idea of work related burnout. And a lot of that, in my opinion- or in my experience, too- has stemmed from the lack of communication on both sides- like, from like a supervisor to an employee, or from an employee to a supervisor, or to coworkers, or whatever. And gosh, years ago, I had gotten to a point where I was so stressed out, overwhelmed, burnt out with work, I made it my purpose in life to be the person that was going to over communicate, because I was so frustrated by the lack of communication in a work situation. So just, you know, not even giving specific examples, but just general like assumptions made by, oh, this person is handling this project. But that's not really happening. Or, you know, somebody drops the ball on something that was supposed to be done by a certain deadline, or just general failure to communicate. But yeah, I made it my purpose to be like the person on the team that was like taking the notes, that was emailing the notes out to everyone, that was following up with the tasks, and the projects, and the notes, probably to the point where it got on people's nerves. But that was a need that I had- like, I needed to ensure that the communication was there, to my staff teams, and even to my supervisors, and just this cross communication in between everybody, to keep things sort of flowing, and sort of smooth, because personally, like I was so frustrated by the lack of communication. But even thinking back on that situation now, it's kinda like what we do in program marketing, in podcast marketing. We've learned in our business courses- or I know I've learned this, I'm sure you've probably heard the same thing- whenever we're marketing a program and trying to promote a program, folks need to hear the same message- I don't even know what the stat is- like, almost 15 times, or something like that, in an advertisement, in order for the message to really like sink in and be relayed. And that's kind of how I felt in my work situation, was that people just need to hear stuff over and over and over again. And that repetition isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Naomi Katz:

Totally. Actually, it's so funny. I literally am working with a business coach on a new offering right now, and she- in the plan that she sent me- she's like, this is gonna feel repetitive, but it's really not repetitive, because people- like it- just it always comes up. Like that's so important. And you know, we talked about this around boundaries, too. And it's like what you said about the gifts, that it's a constant communication. With boundaries, we liken it to training a puppy. You can't just say something once, that's just not how it works. People got their own stuff going on. And there's like a million reasons why it might not sink in the first time. And again, things shift, and evolve, and change for people too. Repetition is kind. I feel like that's the thing. Like, we know clear is kind- repetition is kind. Not expecting people to have to be paying 110% attention to every word that leaves our mouth all the time. You don't really have that capacity on a regular basis. So let's be kind and recognize that they probably have their own shit going on too. And repetition might just be helpful.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. Oh, well, and that makes me think about the mediums of communication, as well. Some folks need to be communicated with through different mediums than others. And I think, especially when we're in either a working relationship, or a friendship, a romantic partnership, whatever, really understanding how the other person needs to be communicated to, and also communicating to them how we prefer to be communicated to. I'm thinking just specifically about, like, does the other person respond well to text messages. Would I prefer to get a phone call instead of an email. And communicating those needs pretty clearly. And also, communicating boundaries around those communication methods is really, really important too. It's also really hard.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, but that's a really good point. So just as an example, with my one on one clients, I use Voxer as a messaging app to communicate with people between calls and stuff. And like in Voxer or you can- you can text, you can voice message, there's gifs, and stuff like that. I have a tendency to try and just follow the lead of the client in terms of how we communicate. Like I don't say like, oh, it has to be voice messaging, or it has to be text, or it has to be this, or whatever. And just naturally, some people send me voice messages, some people send me text messages, some people email instead, because they just prefer something that like they're more familiar with. And then, you know, some people use emojis and gifs, and some people are just very, like, straightforward. And you really get a feel for how different communication styles can be, and how that can lead to the need for repetition, for one thing, because you can say something in text, but maybe they need to hear it in voice message, and then also like how it can open up the door for miscommunication because of, okay, I'm used to voice message, you sent me an email or a text message, and I couldn't read the tone like I can in a voice message, or I use a lot of gifs and emojis to communicate tone, and your text messages are very, like, period, no inflection, and so I can't connect to that. Again, it's just so important to be able to familiarize yourself with other people's modes of communication and try and work around that.

Sadie Simpson:

I love that. And that makes me think of something else, too- setting boundaries around communication. One of the things that I used to make a very intentional point to do- and still do this to an extent- is I may read an email or a text, but, especially in a work related email, even if I read it, I'm not going to respond immediately. Because I want to set the expectation that email is not going to be a an instant means of communication to me. If somebody really has an emergency, they really need to get in touch with me fast, they need to pick up the phone, or they need to send me a text message. But probably a phone call is going to be the best way to get my attention. Because I think there is a big problem in our society of urgency- that email is now used as, like, this has to be an instant immediate response. And it just kind of sets this sense of urgency, snowball effect of if you don't respond to my email in five minutes, you're not paying attention to me. So I've really, really tried to make a point to not respond to emails to people really quickly. This isn't an urgent thing, you can wait 24 hours to get my response, it's going to be okay.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, that's actually something that I've actively tried to work on, as well, is like taking some of the urgency out of especially text messages, with my day job, email, for sure. That's definitely something where I used to feel like I had to respond immediately, I think especially once I started working from home, because I had the sense of if I don't respond to this email immediately, people are gonna think I'm not working. And then I realized that that was utter nonsense, because literally what I was doing was working, and that's why I couldn't respond to the email immediately. But it took a lot of unpacking my own, like, what is my fear here? And why do I feel like I need to do this? And really intentionally stepping away. That Voxer app that I use, I have like set hours of set days that people can have access to me through that. And, you know, I tell people they can reach out outside of those hours, and I'll respond when I get back in to office hours. Basically, it takes like active restraint when I see a message come in outside of hours for me not to respond to it. It's been a practice. Because sometimes I am available. I totally could respond to it. But I'm very intentional about not responding to it until I'm back in my office hours because I want to hold the boundary and set the precedent.

Sadie Simpson:

Oh my gosh, well, on a personal note, and I feel comfortable saying this- he's- he's not gonna get mad at me if he listens to this. But everybody in my family is naturally an early riser. Like I wake up early naturally. This is like a genetic hereditary thing. Like, my parents wake up early, and my sisters wake up early. So recently, within the last couple of weeks, I was up at like six, and kind of just drinking a coffee, watching TV, waiting on everybody to wake up, scrolling through my Instagram Stories, just, you know, having my me time in the morning. And my dad sends me a text message at 6:30. And I'm like, I might be awake at 6:30, but I am not ready to talk to anybody or to respond to a message. And I responded back at 8am. And I was like, hey, you can text me between the hours of 8am and 8pm, and with a like a smiley face emoji. And I felt kind of weird, saying that to my dad. But uh, it's important, I think, even like with our family members. If it's an emergency, obviously, call me, text me, whatever. But it was just about something that is a non emergency. Even setting some of those boundaries outside of work situations, I feel like is really important, because the hours of 8pm to 8am, are my me time to watch TV, and to sleep, and to mindlessly scroll through my social media. So don't talk to me during those times, please.

Naomi Katz:

Totally. And you know, I think one of the reasons we get so concerned about setting boundaries like that- I think in our work lives we are afraid of the impact is going to have on our work. Like, I need this job, if I set this boundary is that going to impact that. That was totally my fear around like initially feeling like I had to respond to emails instantaneously when I was working from home. And I think in our personal lives, it goes back to that what we talked about earlier, that fear of conflict. But I have to say, I don't think I've ever actually had pushback on setting a boundary like that. I mean, I guess this is actually a work thing. But like with having set hours and not responding to Voxer messages outside of those hours, I've never had anybody get upset that I didn't respond-

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. Right.

Naomi Katz:

-until I was back in. In fact, there have been

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. times where I've, for whatever reason, said, oh, sorry I missed this message, or something like that- which, it's so funny, like, every once in a while I catch myself doing that still to this day, and as soon as I send it, I'm like, I'm not sorry, it

Naomi Katz:

Like people know what the boundary is. was outside- but without fail, the answer is always, oh, I didn't expect you to answer that.

Sadie Simpson:

Yep. Even my dad just responded back with a big thumbs up emoji. And it was, you know, it was fine. It was not a big deal.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah. Recently with my family, there, like- there- whatever was going on, and so there were like, a lot of family text message- group text messages going on.

Sadie Simpson:

That stresses me out.

Naomi Katz:

And they were all at like eight or 8:30 in the Or you're not me that wakes up at 6am, just to wake up. morning, sometimes earlier than that. And here's the thing- and I'm talking about like over a weekend or something like that- I don't have kids. I sleep in. I'd get up, and I'd look at my phone, and I'd have like, you know, 17 text messages from this group, and had not responded. And once I was awake I would respond. But I said something to my parents, I guess, at some point, where I was like, well, you know, I don't have children, and I'm not an old person, so. I am not awake at the time that you're sending these. And they were like, oh, yeah, okay, that's fine. And they just kind of laughed. There's not any sense of like, well, but they're important, so you should, you know, you should make sure you're responding to them in a timely manner. Like no. In general- and I'm not saying nobody ever has conflict by setting boundaries, or communicating their needs, or anything like that, because, of course, that's going to happen sometimes- but not nearly as much as we think it's going to. And you know, that's actually a pretty good segue into the second part of this, which is that communication isn't just about what we say. It's also about how we listen- how we listen to other people communicating their needs to us, and how we go about validating or meeting those needs.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, I think that's really important, and something that's often left out of the conversation on communication is the whole listening aspect. Because, for one, I don't know about you, but I have a tendency to believe I'm right about a lot of things, and other people tend to be wrong about a lot of things. And maybe that stems from my middle childness or something, I don't know, but I like to be right about things. And that is something that I've had to do a lot of work on over the years, is being more open to listening to other people's opinions, not always like succumbing to that righting reflex, where I want to go in and immediately tell somebody they are wrong about whatever thing they are wrong about, or similarly trying to fix the problem immediately that somebody might be talking about, without giving them the opportunity to kind of talk through whatever it is that they're talking about. So really active, reflective listening is something that I have had to personally do a lot of work on. And what's real interesting- and real triggering- is that my child is basically the same person as me. And whenever I see him correcting me on something I've said, I'm like, oh my god, you are me. This is weird.

Naomi Katz:

Oh my god, I can totally see that being such a triggering situation.

Sadie Simpson:

It is. Well, it's funny, even Trey will be like, oh my god, he is exactly like you. Even the other day, he was- or he was getting ready to go to bed. I covered him up with the sheet on the bed. I said, here's the sheep. And he looked right at me, and he said, it's sheet not sheep, like just correcting the way I said something. Like, yeah, that sounds kind of like something I probably would have said, too. So I guess what goes around comes around.

Naomi Katz:

Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Yeah, I'm right there with you, though. I also really like to be right. And I'm a Taurus, so I'm real stubborn about it. And yeah, that's something that I've had to really actively work on. I'm actually taking a course on active listening, and- I'm in what's called motivational interviewing with Be Nourished right now. If you are a professional, like, especially in the helping fields, I highly, highly recommend this course in terms of like honing these active listening skills and building an awareness around these righting and fixing reflexes. Like, yeah, I've worked really hard on building these skills, especially as a coach, but it's so interesting how I sometimes still forget to practice them outside of professional settings, in my interpersonal relationships. And it's also interesting even to just to see how deeply ingrained some of these righting and fixing reflexes are. So that not falling back on them really, truly takes practice. One thing that has been so interesting within this course, is, you know, if you ask somebody- and so, you know, for our listeners, maybe this is a helpful practice in terms of understanding what we mean when we're talking about active listening- if you were to go to somebody and tell them something you are struggling with, how would you want them to respond? Versus how would you not want them to respond? It's so funny, because I think each of us generally knows what supportive listening is- what feels supportive. It can sometimes feel really hard to do those things, when we're in the moment, and especially if somebody is saying something that we feel things about- you know, like we've- you know, we have feelings or thoughts in opposition to what they're saying, or we feel insecure about what they're saying, or any of those things. And so it can be just really helpful to just start, as always, building awareness about some of these things. And also, as always, it's surprising how often we totally have the knowledge, and the skills, and the intuition about this stuff already. We just haven't explored it.

Sadie Simpson:

That's so relevant to this conversation about communication, is we- we know this stuff instinctually. But you're right. It's a matter of kind of exploring, and just questioning, and building some awareness around it. And how we can use communication, whether that is speaking or listening, to get our needs met, to be less stressed out, and less resentful about things, to cultivate a little bit more kindness within our lives. I think it's something that often- you know, the idea of improved communication is talked about a lot in various settings- in work settings, and romantic settings, whatever- but putting some action behind just talk about communication is needed for all of us, and is always evolving like everything else.

Naomi Katz:

Totally. And you know, for the record, the same goes for if we think about, well, I don't know how to state my needs. Then, same thing, think about how you would want somebody else to tell you their needs. Chances are, you'd rather have somebody say, I need XYZ, than you would have somebody say you need to XYZ. And like, we know- like, we know what feels good, and we know what doesn't feel good. And cultivating that awareness, and then practicing from that awareness, is just everything for these conversations.

Sadie Simpson:

So as we're wrapping this up, as we are going into Mother's Day- and if not Mother's Day, just all of the the holidays, all of the times- when we feel like we may be setting ourselves up for disappointment, or if we're in a place where we're feeling resentful towards our partner, or towards a work situation, or towards our family members, thinking back to what opportunities we have within our access to assess our communication skills, and possibly improve upon our communication skills can really help make your whole life more satisfying. So with that said, Naomi, what is satisfying for you right now?

Naomi Katz:

Well, this is actually kind of really relevant, because it was essentially my birthday gift- which is that Ben and I redecorated my whole office. We painted, and I got a new desk chair, and I have a new desk that's going to be delivered any minute, and I got something framed that I've been somehow saving and not damaging for like 20 years. So I'm like getting all the art put up on my walls and stuff. And it's just- oh my gosh, my workspace, which is like where I spend the vast majority of my time during the week- it's just so much more satisfying and so nice right now. And it very much relates to this, because a lot of this was me like asking Ben for what I wanted, and him like meeting my need that- of what I wanted in this office. And also, even in terms of like, how we got it done is like a real example of how our communication has evolved in our relationship, because I hate doing house projects. I am not cut out for it. Like I just wilt. Like, I have like a day and maybe two in me. And then I just am- like, I can't take this whole situation anymore. And so over the years, you know, Ben and I have worked out that like this works a lot better when Ben does the big stuff. He painted this whole office, I did not paint this office. But he does all of that. And I do all like the support stuff. I make the runs to Home Depot and Lowe's. Like I go out and pick up food. I take care of the dog, and run things in and out for him, and hold things for him, and like just support all around.

Sadie Simpson:

Nice.

Naomi Katz:

And it just works out to where that's how we both stay sane through the process, for the most part. But again, communication is how we figured that out. So-

Sadie Simpson:

Oh my gosh, yes. That is amazing.

Naomi Katz:

So yeah, what's satisfying for me right now is sitting in my redecorated office that I just love so so much, and reflecting on how our communication was able to make this happen.

Sadie Simpson:

Yay.

Naomi Katz:

What about you, what's satisfying for you right now?

Sadie Simpson:

I don't consider myself to be a very sentimental, traditional type of person. Probably pretty clear, especially from this episode. Holiday traditions, I'm like, okay, whatever. It's just- it's not a very big important thing to me. However, about five years ago, I gave birth about a week before Mother's Day. So my first Mother's Day, my kid was just a couple of days old by that point. And for that breakfast on Mother's Day morning, we went and got food at Bojangles. And ever since then, it has just been a thing that it is expected now, because we communicate and talk about it, that we are gonna get Bojangles for breakfast, and then go out and just do something- go out for a walk, go out for a bike ride, just go do something together with my husband and my kid. But what's been really fun is really for the last couple of days, Trey keeps talking about it- like I think he's as excited about it as I am. I mean just going to a fast food restaurant for breakfast. I don't know why, but we're really like, yes, we're going to Bojangles on Mother's Day- because it's just something that we've done for the last five years, and it's just been fun for us. So that's my tradition is going to Bojangles on Mother's Day. And we're all excited about it.

Naomi Katz:

I love that so much. That is such a wonderful story, and like, just the way it built into this tradition, and then the fact that Trey's as excited about it as you are.

Sadie Simpson:

I know.

Naomi Katz:

All around, this is just fantastic. I love it so much.

Sadie Simpson:

It's not like we don't go to Bojangles other times throughout the year, but for some reason this feels like a special Bojangles trip.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah. Totally.

Sadie Simpson:

And if you're not from the south, and you don't know what the heck Bojangles is, it is like a Southern fast food chicken and biscuit breakfast place of deliciousness. So yeah.

Naomi Katz:

That's- that's- that's the motto, actually. Breakfast place of deliciousness. Awesome. Well, again, if you've enjoyed this episode, feel free to reach out to us on Instagram @satisfactionfactorpod. Let us know what you are doing for Mother's Day, or how you feel like your communication skills come in handy. And yeah, we would love to hear from you over there.

Sadie Simpson:

And once again, if you found value in this podcast episode, or any other episodes, be sure to give us a rating and review on either Apple podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast platform that allows you to give a rating or review, because this is what helps us reach more people, and it gives us so much joy to see your feedback.

Naomi Katz:

Well that's it for this this week. Happy Mother's Day and we'll catch you next week.