#36 - The Summer Body Episode!

This week, in honor of the unofficial beginning of summer, we're talking about all things summer bodies! In this episode, we cover: why the phrase "every body is a bikini body" misses the mark & keeps us centering our bodies anyway; the problematic fitness narratives that shape our thoughts & beliefs about summer bodies; and how we can prioritize comfort for every body, even in the summer. We're also sharing our personal experiences with navigating the summer body narratives & how we've started to prioritize "comfortable girl summer" over "hot girl summer"!

You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @thesadiesimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

For this episode's transcript, visit: www.satisfactionfactorpod.com

Referenced in this episode:
Virginia Sole-Smith's Burnt Toast Newsletter
MegaBabe Thigh Rescue
Body Glide Anti-Chafe Stick
Thigh Society
Snag Tights
Ashley Seruya - @badashtherapy
Food Psych Episode #225

Want to connect with us to deepen the conversation? Join us in our online community, The Satisfaction Space!

Want to show the world that you love the pod? Get t-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, stickers, totebags & more at Teepublic!

You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

Transcript

Naomi Katz: 0:03

Welcome to Satisfaction Factor, the podcast where we explore how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. Welcome back to Satisfaction Factor. I'm Naomi Katz, an Intuitive Eating, body image, and self trust coach.

Sadie Simpson: 0:26

I'm Sadie Simpson, a group fitness instructor, personal trainer, and Intuitive Eating counselor.

Naomi Katz: 0:32

It is the first week of June, and we actually just celebrated Memorial Day, which is kind of the unofficial start of summer. Beaches open, and pools open, and all of that stuff. And so we thought this would be a good time to discuss summer bodies.

Sadie Simpson: 0:52

Summer body season is upon us.

Naomi Katz: 0:55

Yeah. For better or for worse. Both of us actually love the summer, right? Like you're you're totally a summer person.

Sadie Simpson: 1:05

Oh my gosh, yes. I'm so a summer person. I can't stand being cold. I do not like snow. I'm not sure why I prefer to live in the mountains. But you know, I guess outside of the winter, the mountains of North Carolina are pretty amazing. But yes, summer time is definitely my preferred season.

Naomi Katz: 1:24

Yeah, I fully agree. After, you know, 10 years living in Boston and dealing with New England winters, I am extremely loving the weather in western North Carolina. But yes, I am definitely a summer person. And I especially love the beach.

Sadie Simpson: 1:46

Same. Me too. We usually try to plan a couple of beach trips every summer, but right now we just have one big trip planned, and I'm very ready for it. Like it's been a while since we have gone to like a summer beach vacation. Well it's been a year, I guess. But that feels like too long.

Naomi Katz: 2:09

Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, I feel the same way. Like we- we take at least one beach vacation every year because I love it so much. But by the time each year's comes around, I'm like, oh my God, it's been- it- it's been forever since I've been to the beach.

Sadie Simpson: 2:25

I know. And do you'll have any trips planned for this summer?

Naomi Katz: 2:28

Yeah, actually, as this airs, we are going away next week to the beach.

Sadie Simpson: 2:33

Nice.

Naomi Katz: 2:34

Yeah. So we're going to spend a week by the beach, and I could not be more excited about it. How about you?

Sadie Simpson: 2:40

Yeah, we're going in two weeks. So almost, our beach trips will kind of overlap. So yay.

Naomi Katz: 2:48

Nice. Awesome. With things sort of opening up a little bit more, and with the nice weather being here, you know, you and I are both super excited about the coming of summer, but for a lot of people summer coming on can cause, like, kind of a lot of anxiety and not so happy feelings. And we figured this would be a good time to talk about some of those.

Sadie Simpson: 3:14

Yeah, I think especially this year, as opposed to the last two summers, this is gonna be the first summer that really feels like a real summer. I don't know if that's the vibe you get. Like we went to the beach, we did stuff last summer. But this year just feels different for me. It just feels like the world is kind of getting back to what it used to be a couple of years ago. And I think for a lot of folks that might bring up a lot of excitement. But for a lot of other folks that might bring up some anxiety, or other feelings, especially for those who have experienced body change over the last couple of years. So I think this is a very timely time to talk about summer bodies, and beach bodies, and bikini bodies, and the expectations that surround these things.

Naomi Katz: 4:06

Yeah, and I think that for some people, maybe we have both of those things- where like you're excited and looking forward to your summer plans, but also on some level of feeling very anxious about getting out there in summer clothes. And so yeah, so let's let's talk about some of the narratives around summer bodies, and bikini bodies, and beach bodies, and hold on I have to go vomit.

Sadie Simpson: 4:38

How many times have you said beach body and summer body in one sentence before?

Naomi Katz: 4:41

This was- this- this was a lot.

Sadie Simpson: 4:44

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 4:48

If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you probably already know where we stand on the concept of a bikini body or a beach body. I'm not going to say all the phrases every time because I just can't. You know, you probably already know that we firmly believe that if you want to wear a bikini, that everybody has the right to be comfortable in what they're wearing, and, you know, to wear what they feel good in, and what they like, and that there's no size limitation on wearing bikinis, or anything like that. And there's some nuance to the whole concept of every body is a beach body and everybody is a bikini body.

Sadie Simpson: 5:34

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of nuance to that. So let's talk about it some.

Naomi Katz: 5:39

The concept of every body is a bikini body or every body is a beach body is definitely something that you hear a lot in mainstream body positivity.

Sadie Simpson: 5:54

Yeah, yeah. We see a lot of social media posts, especially this time of year, that are, on the surface level- for the most part, I think some folks mean well. I think they're trying their best to be, quote unquote, body positive. But there's- there's some blurred lines there between body positivity in terms of like a thinner white woman showing her rolls, wearing a bikini, or normalizing cellulite, and stuff like that- like we see a lot of those kinds of posts on social media right about now. There's some nuance that I think it's really important to mention.

Naomi Katz: 6:36

We have definitely talked before on this podcast about some of the missing lenses and like the lack of perspective within the mainstream body positivity- I don't even want to call it a movement, it's not a movement- within the mainstream body positivity realm. Body positivity has its roots in revolution, essentially, of group activism amongst a marginalized communities. What we see as body positivity on social media, and in marketing campaigns, and things like that tends to be a very, very whitewashed version of body positivity, a very, very straight washed version of body positivity, and a very, very thin washed version of body positivity. So what we get is every body can be a bikini body, and that's demonstrated by a- for all intents and purposes- thin, cisgender, able bodied, white woman, maybe posing or contorting in a way to show like her one belly roll, or her cellulite, or something like that. And while we- again, we've talked before about how like this can certainly be an entry point for people. And I'm sure that there are people out there, especially those who are in bodies that are also not particularly marginalized on a societal level, might get some reassurance from seeing these things. It also kind of misses the point when you get to the point of like body liberation, and fat positivity, and fat liberation.

Sadie Simpson: 8:21

Yes, because often these every body is a beach body posts we see are not representative of hardly any body's, other than this one particular type of body.

Naomi Katz: 8:34

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, there- there are people out there in actually diverse bodies, in actually fat bodies, and actually marginalized bodies who are living their best life in bikinis, and, you know, in shorts, and in crop tops, and things like that. And they look amazing, and they look awesome. And it is so great to actually see that. And I think that that actually serves so many more people than seeing somebody who is in a conventionally and societally accepted body- and not just accepted, but praised body- saying, see, if I can love myself you can too, even in a bikini.

Sadie Simpson: 9:20

And then what often happens in these more societally accepted bodies when these, quote unquote, body positive bikini photos show up on social media, they're often praised as being so brave. Oh, you are my hero. I can't believe you posted this. You're the bravest person I ever know. Like they get praised for this. Whereas, when somebody who truly is in a marginalized body, in a fat body, in a disabled body posts a bikini picture, or a bathing suit picture, or a picture of themselves simply living their life in the summer, there tends to be a lot of hatred and questioning, who do you think you are posting this. And the comments that are posted on these two different types of posts from different types of people are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum, one being praised, the other being ridiculed pretty much.

Naomi Katz: 10:20

Yeah. And not just ridicule, but like that great line of, quote unquote, glorifying obesity, which is just nonsense. It's literally just a fat person living their life.

Sadie Simpson: 10:33

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 10:36

Nobody in the history of ever has tried- has been trying to like sell fatness to anyone. Like, that's just not a thing. And so what happens is, within mainstream body positivity, you see a lot of like, every body is a beach body, but they're not really showing us every body. So, you know, for one thing, we want to be really, really clear that when we say every body or all bodies, we literally mean every and all bodies. And we especially mean all the bodies who have been told all their lives that they're not one of the bodies that's allowed to do this.

Sadie Simpson: 11:14

Mm-hmm.

Naomi Katz: 11:14

And you don't have to wear a bikini, or a bathing suit, or shorts, or a crop top, or any of those things to, like, prove to anyone, including yourself, that you accept your body. Wearing things like this is not a prerequisite to body acceptance, or body neutrality, or body love, even- like, even if you were to get to that point, like that still doesn't ever mean that you have to wear a bikini, or shorts, or crop tops, or like anything that you personally are not comfortable in. We'll, in a second, actually, get way, way more in depth into why the goal should be to be comfortable in our clothing choices, as opposed to aspiring to like this one particular clothing choice. But one of the reasons- and this is something that Virginia Sole-Smith recently wrote about in her newsletter- which is great, by the way- highly recommend- we'll put a link to that in the show notes, actually. She very recently posted about how one of the problems with all this talk about bikini bodies, even in terms of like every body is a bikini body, is that it still keeps us in this narrative of a bikini body being the goal. And, you know, we've talked before about why loving your body is maybe not that helpful because it kind of still centers our bodies as our goal in life, when we have our goal to be loving our body, and I think this is very much in line with that. Maybe what your body looks like this summer, what you're wearing on your body this summer, is actually not what you care about at all right now. And maybe that's not the goal anyway. So, you know, something to consider there too, is that when we're talking about bikini bodies, what does that really say about what our ultimate goals are anyway? Like, is the goal that we should feel like everybody looks good in a bikini? Or is the goal that, like, we don't actually care who is or isn't wearing a bikini because we see people as people and not just bikini models.

Sadie Simpson: 13:37

And there are a ton of reasons as to why this is such an emphasis to have a beach body or bikini body as the ultimate goal, and it's because of our societal structures. It's because we live in diet culture. It's because we live in a world where there's literally an entire company that promotes fitness and nutrition called freakin Beachbody.

Naomi Katz: 14:05

Yes. And like let's be real. They don't promote fitness and nutrition. They promote weight loss via exercise and diet.

Sadie Simpson: 14:15

Via their MLM programs.

Naomi Katz: 14:19

Yes. Yes. Let's be sure to name all of the reasons why Beachbody is the worst.

Sadie Simpson: 14:28

Maybe that'll be a good title for this episode. Why Beachbody-

Naomi Katz: 14:32

All the reasons why Beachbody is the worst.

Sadie Simpson: 14:34

R- registered trademark- Beachbody, you're the worst.

Naomi Katz: 14:38

Dear Beachbody, you're the worst, episode 30 something or other, an open letter to Beachbody about why they're the worst.

Sadie Simpson: 14:49

Yes. So another thing that's pretty prevalent, other than the company Beachbody, which is everywhere, especially within the exercise and fitness world, is this idea of bikini body bootcamps, or these short term fitness programs- whether it's promoted by a gym, or it's a DVD or program you do at home- that is literally focused on bikini body, like that's what's in the title of the fitness program. And often those programs include really high intensity hardcore exercise coupled with dieting, very low calorie intake, that sort of thing. And a lot of messaging, like, let's tone up for short season, or tanktop season, and stuff like that. And gosh, it's just so problematic that that is still a thing that happens in the exercise, and the movement, and the fitness world, because it is so steeped in just creating a lot of disordered eating and exercise behaviors, this black and white thinking, these extremes when it comes to exercise and food restriction, deprivation with food, body preoccupation. And even- gosh, this is something I haven't really even thought about or talked about in a long time- but this whole idea of spot reduction with fitness and exercise, and the idea that you can do these specific exercises to shrink your thighs or flatten your stomach. Which, like, physiologically, it's not possible to spot reduce specific places in your body. But it also normalizes that we have to do these things to attain a specific body shape, or a specific body size. And it's just really, really harmful on many, many levels.

Naomi Katz: 16:52

Yeah, oh my gosh, that concept of spot reduction. And totally, I can't remember the last time I even thought about spot reduction as a concept. But it's still everywhere. So a lot of us, in our struggles with body image, we have certain parts of our bodies that we, like, obsess over- our arms, or our thighs, or our butts, or our stomachs, or whatever- like we all have different things. And they become like almost like an obsessive thing. We do a lot of body checking around these, like, really specific parts of our bodies. And the concept of spot reduction, and marketing movement and fitness through spot reduction, like really, really encourages us to continue those like obsessive thoughts around specific parts of our bodies. It's really harmful. Like, yes, it's ineffective, but oh my gosh, it's so harmful too.

Sadie Simpson: 17:48

Yeah, well, and also, the whole idea of summer bodies are made in the winter, or your summer body is made in the kitchen. So yeah, like there's just so many narratives that exist surrounding this idea of a beach body or summer body. And we'll get into a few more in a minute. But this one is really- it's prevalent. Like, and it's messed up that it is.

Naomi Katz: 18:15

That marketing of summer bodies are made in the winter, summer bodies are made in the kitchen, like all of that stuff- like, literally what the whole point of that is so that the fitness industry can control you all year round. Like oh, in the winter, you might actually get a reprieve from thinking about, like, all the pressure and like the stigma around your body in a bikini and on the beach, but let's make sure to keep the pressure on and remind you that you should be preparing your summer body now. Like it's so gross.

Sadie Simpson: 18:51

It is. Well, and that stuff even shows up in memes and- and things on the internet that on the surface appear to be cute and harmless. And people share this kind of stuff all the time. So specifically, I'm thinking about a meme that I've seen pretty regularly, and it's some iteration of a chubby baby or a chubby kid just hanging out in their diaper, or their little kid swimsuit, or whatever, and pointing down at their belly, and saying something about like, I'm still in my winter body or- you know, I'm sure you all have all seen these kinds of memes that are just kind of flippantly shared without really considering the messaging that is interwoven in these memes that we feel like are harmless, but they are very much not harmless.

Naomi Katz: 19:43

Just because it's cute- like just because the kid is cute, doesn't mean the message is cute.

Sadie Simpson: 19:49

Right.

Naomi Katz: 19:49

That message is not cute. And, you know, just as a personal anecdote, like this stuff stays with us, and like can have a real impact on our ability to enjoy our lives. I can vividly, vividly remember certain like beach and summer body related cues that different gyms, and fitness instructors, and stuff that I have worked with in the past have used. I certainly will not share them here because what would be the point of that, but like, to this day, can vividly remember them. And, you know, we've talked about, I love summer, I love the beach like crazy. When I was in my 20s, there were like several years where I literally did not even own a bathing suit, because I was not going to pools, I was not going to beaches, I was not doing any of those things. Despite the fact that I have loved those things since I was a child. We deserve better than that.

Sadie Simpson: 20:46

Yeah, that's a good segue to talk a little bit about some other narratives that show up here too. And one of the things that specifically comes to mind for me is that only certain body types can wear certain clothes, or certain swimsuit types, and that sort of thing. Because I can really remember, growing up, going to the beach with my family- or like even as a teenager, early college age, young adult, with friend groups- and just comments that folks would make about, oh, that random person on the beach shouldn't be wearing that bathing suit. Like why do we care? Like why do we even want to put in the effort to care about what someone else chose to wear?

Naomi Katz: 21:32

Growing up, and through my teens and early 20s, and all of that stuff, I distinctly remember hearing so much talk about other people's bodies- bodies around us, bodies of people we knew, bodies of celebrities. And like, yeah, oh, they shouldn't be wearing that, or- I don't hear it now, so much. But again, I think that- at least partially- that's a function of me being very open about my boundaries, and my beliefs, and my feelings about this stuff. So I don't know if they're saying it to each other when I'm not around. They're certainly not saying it around me.

Sadie Simpson: 22:09

Yeah, I can definitely agree and relate to that too. Well, and I think another thing that is kind of a narrative that shows up, especially with like new parents and new mothers, is the whole idea of you're, quote unquote, giving up if you start wearing a mom bathing suit instead of a bikini, or something with more coverage, since your body has changed prior to having a baby or birthing a child. But that's a big one that exists in the mom world.

Naomi Katz: 22:38

I can totally see that. And that really goes back to the whole you don't need to prove anything to anybody by wearing a bikini. Not only does your body not need to look a certain way in order to wear a bikini, but wearing a bikini does not need to be a goal at all. Maybe you never liked wearing bikinis. Maybe you did, but now you want to wear something that you're not going to have to readjust every time you get down into the sand with your kid. Maybe you're just a different person now than you were when you were 19. You know, who knows?

Sadie Simpson: 23:12

Yeah. Oh my gosh, I think that's such a good point, though. Let's normalize evolving our tastes, and our style, and our preference with swimwear and with summer clothes. Yes, based on the fact that our bodies are supposed to change- they probably have changed and evolved since we went to the beach for senior week graduation week when we were 18 years old- and, like, our preferences change too. And that preference may be based on body change. It may be based on functionality, and having to get down in the sand and chase kids around versus just lounging on a chair, sipping cocktails by the ocean- which sounds amazing. But sometimes, you know, things change, life changes, and our choice in summer wear and swimwear can change with that, and it's okay.

Naomi Katz: 24:09

Totally. Are you- what kind of bathing suit person are you?

Sadie Simpson: 24:13

Last year, I decided that it was time for me to shift my swimsuit style. My body had changed a lot actually in the last five years, and I knew I needed something functional. I knew I wanted something comfortable, that I'm not going to be pulling wedgies, something that I'm not going to have to adjust in the top. And last year I found a bathing suit on Amazon, and it was a two piece bathing suit, and it was like high waisted, but the top was like kind of ruffley. It was the greatest bathing suit I've ever had in my life. Like I love this bathing suit so much that I bought another one in a different color. And honestly I'm thinking about buying another one of the exact same style this year. So-

Naomi Katz: 24:56

Full coverage two piece, kind of.

Sadie Simpson: 24:58

It is, yeah, full coverage two piece. I've gone down the swimsuit rabbit hole, you know, my whole life- I'm sure everybody has- like finding something that feels good, that you feel comfortable. And last year I- like I really went swimsuit shopping. Like I tried to go to the store to buy- buy this, because I was like I really I want a one piece bathing suit. And I found that a one piece bathing suit does not feel comfortable on my body.

Naomi Katz: 25:26

Yes!

Sadie Simpson: 25:26

It gives me wedgies. It ridess up in the front. Like, I do not like it. But a full coverage two piece is my jam right now.

Naomi Katz: 25:35

I am actually totally the same way. I am not a huge fan of one piece bathing suits for

Sadie Simpson: 25:38

Oh! two reasons. One, I hate having to navigate peeing in a one piece bathing suit. Oh, yeah.

Naomi Katz: 25:49

It's just a pain. It's just so much easier to do that in a two piece. So that's- that's actually reason number one. The other reason is, I have somewhat large breasts, and one piece bathing suits often are not particularly supportive, and so I'm not really a big fan of that. I have found a few one piece bathing suits, but- it's funny- they're like the one piece bathing suits that basically look like two piece bathing suits. Because those are the only ones that have enough support in the top. So but yeah, I'm totally with you. I am a full coverage two piece person for the most part.

Sadie Simpson: 26:28

If you're listening to this, come find us on Instagram@satisfactionfactorpod, let us know about your current swimsuit preference, because I'm kind of interested in hearing about it, honestly, from what other people's perspectives are too.

Naomi Katz: 26:42

Totally. It's so interesting, too, that you said that you actually like took the time to like go bathing suit shopping, and that you were able to prioritize what was comfortable for you. And I think that that's actually like a huge thing, as we work towards body acceptance and stuff like that, is- because I can remember, all my life, like hating swimsuit shopping.

Sadie Simpson: 27:06

Oh yeah.

Naomi Katz: 27:06

And so all the time, I would buy swimsuits, and they would be uncomfortable, or they didn't fit quite right, or they would be whatever, because, first of all, I was rushing, and I was like stressed, and I was like, you know, disconnected, and, you know, just unregulated and whatever emotionally while doing it. So there was that. But also I was prioritizing all the wrong stuff. It was all about, like, how I could camouflage my body in different ways, or, you know, things like that. Whereas now, one, I don't mind shopping for bathing suits. If anything, I kinda like it.

Sadie Simpson: 27:43

Ooh.

Naomi Katz: 27:43

Which is- I know. Like, that's- that's something that has shifted about my relationship with like clothing shopping all around. So I'm definitely not like trying to be like, oh, if you- if you practice body acceptance, you'll love bathing suit shopping. Like this is- my personal relationship with shopping overall has changed, and bathing suit shopping is one of them. So, one, I don't hate doing it anymore. And, two, I'm able to even tune in to what's comfortable, because I'm not like so disconnected, and stressed out, and emotional about the process.

Sadie Simpson: 28:19

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 28:19

We're definitely not here trying to say, like, you have to wear a bathing suit at all. Like, ultimately, what this really comes down to is what everything comes down to, which is getting to a place where you can make autonomous choices for yourself about your own comfort, about what level of function you need, even about what styles you like- the kind of stuff that you kind of like can't even really get to when you're so caught up in the rules.

Sadie Simpson: 28:48

Yeah. Well, and this isn't summer specific, but it is pool specific- I've been teaching water movement classes for the last 15 years or so. And one of the things that a lot of folks ask when they're new, and they want to join Aqua Zumba class, or water aerobics class- one of the biggest fears people have is getting in a bathing suit in front of people- and not only just the people in the class, but you're in this pool, which is inside of a gym, which often there is a big window looking into the pool- and it's a very intimidating, stressful situation for a lot of folks. And an option that I always like to remind people of- especially like in a pool setting, but really anywhere- at the beach, wherever- you don't have to wear a swimsuit. You can wear clothes. You could wear nylon, polyester, waterproof, dri-fit kind of clothes in a water fitness class. You can wear loose fitting, comfortable, flowy, air breathing clothes at the beach. Like it doesn't have to be a swimsuit.

Naomi Katz: 29:59

Yeah, that's absolutely true, and also kind of opens up one of the other issues with like naming bikinis as this like prime goal in body acceptance or anything like that, is that, like, there's a very gendered thing to that too. Where like not everybody is going to be comfortable in a very femme bathing suit. And like, fortunately, there totally are places out there that are making less gender specific, like less gendered bathing suits. And there are also a lot of places out there that are making just more functional bathing suits and stuff, too, that are so much more like shorts, or, you know, things like that. It's funny- during the period of time when I was like, no, I don't own a bathing suit, I definitely would be like shorts and a tank top in the water if I went at all.

Sadie Simpson: 30:54

Well, speaking of shorts, let's talk about shorts for a little bit. So, as much as I love summer, one thing I do not love is when I am outside at a fun summer function, and like I'm sitting to a plastic chair, and my legs stick to the chair, and it feels like you're like ripping skin off to stand up. So that is one thing that I do not like about summer. And then also the thigh rub can get a little uncomfortable at times. So let's talk about that a little bit. Because I feel like there are some solutions out there that need to be normalized. And let's- let's just do that.

Naomi Katz: 31:35

Yeah, well, so first of all, that's actually such an important thing to talk about. Because, again, while a lot of times when we're talking about like, oh, you know, it's- it's summer, and bikinis, and shorts, and all of that, and wear- like just wear the whatever, we're overlooking the fact that for some people, there is a physical discomfort that goes along with some of these clothes, not just a like an emotional discomfort. And so like that's important to recognize, is that like telling somebody who is going to get like horrible thigh chafing from wearing a dress, or from wearing short shorts, or something like that to just wear the shorts, is not particularly a helpful way to approach this.

Sadie Simpson: 32:23

Have you found any things that you'd like for thigh chafing, that sort of thing?

Naomi Katz: 32:30

I have found a number of things that I like. So first of all, I want to just sort of throw this out there, I love that more and more places are- and people are having conversations about thigh chafe, or as it's sometimes called chub rub- which, you know, it's funny, that is meant to be a stigmatizing term, but I actually think it sounds so cute. So I actually love calling it that. Like, to me, that's such a cuter phrase than thigh chafing. But, you know, everybody is welcome to use the language that they're most comfortable with. But I love that people are having this conversation, partly because it destigmatizes it, which is so important, especially for people who are the most stigmatized in terms of body conversations and stuff like that. But also, I want to just throw out there that this is something that can happen to people at any size. It is a myth that all thin people have a thigh gap and like don't have thigh rub. I personally had it at every size I've ever been. It actually has a lot more to do with things like the angle of your thigh bone, and the width of your hips, and like your gait, and stuff like that, than it does just how much do you weigh. So just kind of want to throw that out there.

Sadie Simpson: 33:52

Yeah, same. Well, I've experienced this since childhood at every size, every weight, every age. It's a very normal thing that folks in all shapes and sizes experience. So totally normalize the thigh rub here.

Naomi Katz: 34:09

Yeah, because- I don't know about you- but I was so so ashamed of it, until just like the past few years when people really started talking about it online. And it's so messed up, because, like, it happens to everybody, but we shame everybody for it, because we think of it as a, quote unquote, fat problem. And like, I mean, there's layers to unpack about, like, everything that I just said, that we don't even have time to unpack all of it in this episode. But it's definitely an important thing to be talking about, and to like be getting the shame out of. So yeah, so some things that I have found that have been really helpful. So a lot of people use like balms, lotion, or, you know, something like that. Personally, I have not had very good success with any of those because- honestly, I think it's because I sweat a lot. And so I sweat them right off. But the ones that people tend to really love, especially, are MegaBabe and Body Glide. And then I've actually also heard that some deodorants work really well. I haven't tried them, but I have heard that.

Sadie Simpson: 35:19

I have. I've definitely tried, like in a pinch, especially if I'm wearing a dress, or a skirt, or something, and like- and I know I'm going to be outside and getting sweaty. I'm like, I'm going to just rub some deodorant on my inner thighs, and it will work for a very brief period of time. But I've personally found that temporary deodorant solution works about as good as Body Glide does for me. Some folks, Body Glide and MegaBabe, that might work well for them. But it's a very temporary solution for those things for me personally.

Naomi Katz: 35:51

Same. But I also think it's a really- it's a good one to talk about, because some bodies chafe in more places than just their thighs. And so balms can go anywhere. Like if you get upper arm chafing, or whatever- I don't need to list all the places that can chafe on bodies. But the point is that, you know, if you chafe in more than just your thighs, a balm, or deodorant, or something like that might be a good choice to apply in other places. What I personally really, really like are like slip shorts, is often what they're known as- just like little shorts that go under skirts, or rompers, or whatever. This is not the same thing as shapewear. We're not talking about Spanx right now. These are things that have no compression, or, you know, control, or- or it's- it's not designed to make you look any different than you are. It's literally just a barrier. Speaking of which, we will probably do a whole other episode on shapewear.

Sadie Simpson: 36:58

Oh yeah.

Naomi Katz: 36:59

That's for another time. A couple of the ones that I have personally tried and really, really liked were Thigh Society, which goes up to a 6x, and Snag Tights, which goes up to a US size 34. And they- and all of these things start all the way down at the bottom, at like the smallest sizes too. So they have like a pretty extended size range. And I know Thigh Society actually has different weights, too- so, like, for different seasons, or for different uses, and stuff like that. And I will even wear those things under- so like if I wear like a romper or a jumper that is very loose and still- still leaves my thighs in contact with each other- I'll even wear them under something like that, and because they're so light, and they breathe really well, that's not even uncomfortable.

Sadie Simpson: 37:49

Ooh. Hashtag not sponsored by Thigh Society. But if anybody out there is listening that works there, we will take your sponsorship.

Naomi Katz: 37:59

And Snag Tights, by the way. Both- this is true of both of these things.

Sadie Simpson: 38:03

Yes. Well even going into this summer, when I was trying to like pull out my clothes and decide what still even fits going into this summer a couple of weeks ago, I was like, well, I definitely need to go shopping for some summer going out clothes versus summer laying around the house clothes, because that's all I have. That's all I had, anyway- just, you know, like my stretchy pants, and my shorts, and my lounge wear that I will probably- you know, don't need to wear in public. And I was like, man, this is gonna be a real summer, I need to probably have some real clothes that actually fit to wear out and about in the world. And just the thought of buying shorts- like jean shorts or even khaki shorts- kind of stressed me out. Like just the idea of being like just in shorts that feel tight around my hips, and tight around my butt, tight around my stomach- I was like, I just don't want to get into that. And so I really tried to find some comfortable like casual public wearing clothes, public wearing shorts- couldn't find anything that felt right. And the other day I went to Walmart, and I picked up a pair of shorts overalls- like jeans shorts overalls- and I found my solution, because I can have like my comfortable casual clothes, and I don't have to deal with like the compression, and the tightness, and the discomfort of shorts. And yeah, if you see me out in the world this summer I will probably be wearing my shorts overalls.

Naomi Katz: 39:41

I love this so much because I literally did the same thing this year. I bought- I just bought two pairs of overalls, and I'm like obsessed. They're the most comfortable things ever. This is the summer of overalls, apparently. I love that so much.

Sadie Simpson: 39:56

Overall summer.

Naomi Katz: 39:57

One of the big things that's worth talking about here is like destigmatizing making ourselves comfortable. I think that- like one of the things that I definitely hear a lot is that- you know, from people as their bodies change, and when they find that maybe they do have to start wearing slip shorts, or use a balm for chafing, or, you know, things like that- is that they don't want to have to do that. I want to shout out Ashley Seruya right now, who you can find on Instagram@badashtherapy. She did an episode of the Food Psych podcast with Christy Harrison, and one of the things that she talked about was, we know how to make ourselves comfortable, and we do it all the time in other contexts. You know, like, if you're cold, you put on a winter coat, and you don't judge yourself for the fact that you need a winter coat to not be cold. But when it comes to making accommodations for our comfort because of our body size, we stigmatize that, and we deny ourselves that comfort. And like, no. Different body sizes deserve to be comfortable too, and we have the ability to make ourselves more comfortable even in larger bodies. And so some of the work here is unpacking, if I could make my larger body more comfortable, instead of trying to force it to be smaller, why do I think one of those is the better choice? Why do I feel guilty about making my larger body comfortable?

Sadie Simpson: 41:36

That is so important, and I think really encapsulates this whole entire episode too- just kind of examining our beliefs, from a societal level to a personal level, about how we feel about our bodies- specifically how we feel about our bodies in the summertime, and during beach season, and that sort of thing. So, yes, I think that is such an important consideration for everybody to think about.

Naomi Katz: 42:05

So I think, bottom line to all of this is, that you get to be the autonomous owner of your body, even in the summer. As always, you get to decide whether you want to be in a bikini or not, whether you want to be in a bathing suit at all or not, what feels comfortable for you, and how you are able to provide yourself with comfort. And none of that has any morality attached to it. Every body- yours, mine, everybody else's, regardless of size and shape- deserves comfort. And we get to decide what that looks like.

Sadie Simpson: 42:45

And regardless of what it looks like and what it feels like, you are not obligated to post about it on social media. You can just live your life.

Naomi Katz: 42:53

Oh, yeah. Also that. Definitely also that.

Sadie Simpson: 42:57

Yes. So Naomi, what is satisfying for you right now?

Naomi Katz: 43:01

Well, truly, what I'm super satisfied about right now is I just bought a few new bathing suits for my trip next week, and I love them, and they were particularly cheap. I- so I actually bought them from a website called SHEIN. That's- that's S-H-E-I-N. So we've talked before about Saucye West's Fight for Inclusivity, and how like, there's brands to support or brands to boycott. Full disclosure, this is on the boycott list, but with an asterisk- it's actually- because they do have size ranges that go up to a five or 6x. The sizing is just not always super accurate. You know, I have a lot of privilege here, in that my body fits within- like well within their size range, so like that kind of inaccurate sizing doesn't impact me too badly. But I definitely did notice that, like, the size I ordered is probably a size up from what I'd have to order anywhere else. So- but they were really, really cheap. And I did not have a ton of money to spend on bathing suits for this trip. So just, you know, sometimes we have to make choices based on other factors as well.

Sadie Simpson: 44:20

Yep.

Naomi Katz: 44:21

I just- they're so friggin cute. And I will say, the other thing that I really liked about this site is that in the reviews of the bathing suits, there's a lot of like user photos, and so there's a lot of women in larger bodies who are actually wearing these bathing suits. Like, they're not models. They're just normal, everyday women in larger bodies showing themselves in these bathing suits, and like talking about how it fits, so that you get a pretty good sense of like what different bodies look like in these bathing suits. It's pretty great. And they also, by the way, don't just have bathing suits, and that's true for their other stuff, too.

Sadie Simpson: 45:02

That is awesome. And honestly, that is so helpful to see that. I know often, whenever we see other people in pictures of bathing suits, there's this connotation that it has to be this comparison thing. But I think in this situation, it's such a useful thing to see a variety of body types in a variety of swimsuits, especially for something you're ordering online, you can't try on in a store before you buy it. And just to not only see their pictures, but like to literally read their reviews, and to see, you know, where you may be able to see yourself, so you're not wasting your money on something that doesn't fit right. So that is a really great use of this.

Naomi Katz: 45:48

Totally. Because, you know, one of the other things that's really, really frustrating- and again, like this is even me, in like a small fat body, so I'm sure this- this problem gets exponentially worse, the larger people's bodies are- but like, there are so many brands out there that sell extended size ranges, and plus sizes, and stuff like that, but on their websites, all their models are wearing the straight size version of whatever bathing suit or clothing item you're looking at. And so it's impossible to get a sense of like, yeah, but what would this look like on a body like mine? And like I have gotten to the point where, like, I just can't- I like won't even buy stuff if that's the case. Because why am I spending money somewhere that is only catering to people in smaller bodies? Like that's not- even if they offer the the extended sizes, that's not helpful to anybody. So Sadie, what's satisfying for you right now?

Sadie Simpson: 46:48

So recently, we welcomed a new addition to our family. We adopted our first ever pet. So Trey and I have been together for- gosh, we just had our 14th wedding anniversary- but have been together, I don't even know how long before that- for a really long time. And in our time together, we have never had a pet with each other. We've had pets like as children growing up, teenagers, college age, but we've never had a pet together. And my kid has been obsessed with cats for years, and has been asking for one. And we finally just like did the thing- got a cat- and it has just added a fun dynamic to our family that we're all enjoying.

Naomi Katz: 47:38

That's so awesome. And can I just say that he is a very handsome cat. What is his name?

Sadie Simpson: 47:46

So we adopted him from the Humane Society, and initially, going into it, my kid was pretty much set on changing whatever name the cat was to Pickles. We're gonna have a cat named Pickles. But then we got there, started playing with some of the cats, and we played with this one cat, Wyatt Earp, which was the one we ended up adopting. And we just decided to keep the name. My kid liked it. But then- even since then, you know, we've got little iterations on his name. Because we're just- we just finished up the last season of Ozark, so it's like Wyatt Earp Langmore, Wyatt Earp Simpson, Wyatt Earp Pickles Langmore Simpson- so we call him different names like

Naomi Katz: 48:29

Oh my god, I love that so much. And also, that's all the time. just what happens with pets- like pets accumulate names. Sunny has so many names. I- like couldn't even list them for you. But yes. He's- he's a very- he's a very handsome cat. I got to- I got to meet Wyatt via Zoom before we started recording this, and he's- he's very cat like and sweet.

Sadie Simpson: 48:54

Yes, he is a good one. Good personality for our family- pretty laid back likes to cuddle. So yes, we love Wyatt Earp Simpson.

Naomi Katz: 49:05

Well, that is awesome. Yeah. So if you're listening and you want to weigh in and let us know, you know, how you feel about summer, and summer bodies, and summer fashion, and bathing suits, and all of the things, come visit us on Instagram@satisfactionfactorpod. Send us a message. You know, share in your stories. Let us know what you're thinking, and we would love to talk to you over there.

Sadie Simpson: 49:33

Yes, and if you enjoyed this podcast and found value in this episode, please be sure to give us a rating and write a quick review in both Apple podcasts and Spotify, or anywhere else that allows you to do so. This is what helps boost up the podcast rankings and helps us reach more listeners.

Naomi Katz: 49:56

Yeah, thanks, everybody. That's all for us this week. Enjoy the beginning of summer, and we will talk to you next week.