This week, we're talking all about self trust! We know diet culture does a lot of harm to our relationship with food, exercise, and our bodies. But did you know it also interferes with our ability to trust ourselves? Diet culture is all about replacing self trust with self control. That's why rebuilding our self trust plays a huge role in our anti-diet work. So in this episode we're talking about: how diet culture disconnects us from our self trust; the impact of Intuitive Eating on self trust (and vice versa!); and some specific practices that can help us reclaim our self trust from diet culture.
You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!
Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @thesadiesimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi
For this episode's transcript, visit: www.satisfactionfactorpod.com
Want to connect with us to deepen the conversation? Join us in our online community, The Satisfaction Space!
Want to show the world that you love the pod? Get t-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, stickers, totebags & more at Teepublic!
You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!
Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi
This week, we're talking all about self trust! We know diet culture does a lot of harm to our relationship with food, exercise, and our bodies. But did you know it also interferes with our ability to trust ourselves? Diet culture is all about replacing self trust with self control. That's why rebuilding our self trust plays a huge role in our anti-diet work. So in this episode we're talking about: how diet culture disconnects us from our self trust; the impact of Intuitive Eating on self trust (and vice versa!); and some specific practices that can help us reclaim our self trust from diet culture.
You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!
Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @thesadiesimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi
For this episode's transcript, visit: www.satisfactionfactorpod.com
Want to connect with us to deepen the conversation? Join us in our online community, The Satisfaction Space!
Want to show the world that you love the pod? Get t-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, stickers, totebags & more at Teepublic!
You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!
Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi
Welcome to Satisfaction Factor, the podcast where we explore how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. Welcome back to Satisfaction Factor. I'm Naomi Katz, an Intuitive Eating, body image, and self trust coach.
Sadie Simpson:I'm Sadie Simpson, a group fitness instructor, personal trainer, and Intuitive Eating counselor.
Naomi Katz:This week, we are talking about all the ways that diet culture impacts our self trust, our ability to trust ourselves, to trust our bodies, and all of that good stuff, and also how practicing Intuitive Eating, ditching diet culture, really like adopting an anti diet mindset can really help us to reconnect with and reclaim our self trust.
Sadie Simpson:I think this is such a big and broad topic that I'm excited about kind of breaking down within this episode, because I think it's such an important aspect of doing all this work, is just to talk about and to kind of work through the idea of self trust. Because whenever we live in diet culture, our self trust is often silenced. So I think this is going to be a great way to kind of talk about it a little bit in an open forum that maybe folks can relate to, and kind of recognize where they may see themselves, or some things that they may have experienced in regards to things like self trust. So I think this is gonna be a really good topic to talk about today.
Naomi Katz:Yeah, I think it'll be fun. So, fun fact- after I stopped doing personal training and nutrition coaching, but before I became an Intuitive Eating coach, I primarily did just body image and self trust coaching. And one of the reasons- one of the things that I was really drawn to in Intuitive Eating was that I really, really recognize it as- while it definitely talks about food and deals with food- what I really saw it as was a framework for healing our body image and for building self trust- for like reclaiming and rebuilding that self trust. And so I pursued Intuitive Eating because of the ways that I saw that it could help people do these other things. So I know that some people have gone the other direction- where like, maybe they start with Intuitive Eating coaching- like they go nutrition, Intuitive Eating, and then they just do like body image and self trust- and I kind of weirdly went the other way. But as a result, this is one of my favorite, favorite topics to cover.
Sadie Simpson:Yay, well, I am pumped to talk to you about it.
Naomi Katz:rating and a review. That helps us to reach more people, so that more people can learn about how ditching diet culture makes their lives more satisfying. How about we start with just like a little bit of an overview of how diet culture impacts self trust in the first place? Does that work for you?
Sadie Simpson:Yeah, that sounds like a really good idea to give us all a little bit of context of where this conversation will possibly go.
Naomi Katz:Cool. Diet culture, we know, does a lot of damage to our relationship with food, with exercise, with our bodies, and all of that stuff. But it also really pretty seriously damages our ability to trust ourselves. It kind of frames everything as, you can't trust yourself, you need to control yourself. So it replaces self trust with self control.
Sadie Simpson:I like that you mentioned the diet culture aspect of this, and how self trust is typically replaced with this idea of self control within the context of diet culture, because I think it paints a really good picture of the contrast between trust versus control. And it makes it really clear about what the opposite of self trust is. And I think it's really helpful to examine- in a lot of circumstances, especially in an area where we feel like we may be struggling, or just doesn't feel aligned with our values, and our goals, and our lifestyle, and that sort of thing- I think examining what is the opposite, or what is the alternative, when we're in one of these places- especially considering, like, if we're struggling with something like self trust, recognizing that the opposite is self control, and just kind of sitting with that for a little bit and understanding what that even means for us.
Naomi Katz:Yeah, I really like that perspective of it, too. I think that- like, and it applies so far outside of food and our bodies too. Like, I can totally see how that plays out in terms of like parenting, even- like, do you trust your kid, or are you trying to control your kid? Like, so I think that, yeah, being able to see those as opposites- I think can be really helpful in a lot of contexts, for sure. And so the way that diet culture does this- like the way diet culture replaces that self trust with self control- largely is through rules, and through, you know, manipulation of, like, what's right, and what's wrong within diet culture. So, you know, it's like, first we learn that our hunger signals are wrong, and we can't be trusted. Then we learned that we can't trust our instincts about, you know, how or how much to move our bodies. Then we learn that, you know, our bodies themselves are wrong because they don't conform to a specific size or a specific shape. And that like- it's almost like- I mean, you hear people say, like, oh, my body just won't do what I want it to do. So it's almost like this refusal to conform, and that we need to keep our bodies under control. After a while, we get to the point where we're just second guessing all of our instincts, because if all of those most basic things can't be trusted, then, like, what can be trusted? I think a really good example of this is the, like, diet culture thing about if you're hungry, drink water. Diet culture really has us thinking that we don't even know the difference between hunger and thirst. When you really think about that, on its most core level, you really can't be trusted to know hungry from thirsty? What else can you not be trusted to know then?
Sadie Simpson:Oh my God, that is a perfect example. And even thinking about this from a movement perspective, the first thing that pops in my mind related to this topic is the whole idea of no pain, no gain, or never miss a Monday, and these narratives that we have around exercise or movement that it has to be driven by intensity or these arbitrary rules that we see on the internet, or posted on posters in gyms and things like that, that can actually cause real physical harm- like injuries or overtraining syndrome, or something like that- but we haven't had the opportunity to trust ourselves to recognize intuitive movement, instead of listening to all like the outside messaging of this is what movement is versus what it could be.
Naomi Katz:Yeah, absolutely. Oh my god, that no pain, no gain, especially. If you were in a position where you believed that your body could be trusted, pain would be a sign that you should stop doing the thing that you're doing. Like, that's literally the purpose of pain is to make us stop doing things that we shouldn't do.
Sadie Simpson:But instead we push through the pain.
Naomi Katz:Yeah. So like the idea that, you know, diet culture has framed it as seeking the pain is what we should be doing, that pain is something we should be pursuing- it flips all of our natural instincts on their head.
Sadie Simpson:Yeah.
Naomi Katz:It's not hungry, it's thirsty. What's up is down. What's down is up. Again, that has impact. If we don't trust pain as a sign that something isn't good for us, if we can't tell the difference between hunger and thirst, then how do we know if our jobs are a bad fit? Maybe we feel shitty at our job because we're supposed to, because if you're- apparently you're supposed to feel shitty while you exercise, so like maybe you're supposed to feel shitty in your job too. You know, how do we know if our relationships are any good? Especially when you look at our relationships to like food and movement- there's a lot of parallels to abuse in those kinds of situations, and the way we treat ourselves, and things like that. How hard does it become to recognize- recognize those things in relationships then, right? If we can't control our bodies, how do we control our lives?
Sadie Simpson:Gosh, it's so wild. I know we talk about this a lot, but how dieting, and trying to control our bodies, and our body size, and our food intake, and- and all of that stuff- like just how it's such a parallel, and an analogy, and just- like it just directly relates to every other area in our lives.
Naomi Katz:Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, that's the point. Diet culture knows what it's doing. It doesn't want us to trust ourselves. Because the more confused, and uncertain, and insecure we are, the more we're going to buy all their solutions, the more we're going to turn to outsiders for things that we can, in fact, tell on our own. That's how they sell us quick fixes and stuff like that. And the thing is, that's not just for diet and exercise, but for other stuff, too. I think it's Naomi Wolf- who, we've discussed before, like, is kind of a problematic human at this point, but still has some valuable things to say in this context- and I'm pretty sure she's the one who said that dieting is the most potent political sedative in history. And I just- I mean, especially right now, with the situation with Roe v. Wade, I can't help but make the parallel to, you can't be trusted to know what to do with your body- that robbing us of our autonomy and our control over our own personhood, and being trustworthy in how we conduct ourselves and our bodies basically.
Sadie Simpson:Yes, well, even thinking specifically- I feel like every episode, I'm shit talking Weight Watchers- but it's just so understandable and relatable-
Naomi Katz:Do it.
Sadie Simpson:-to so many people, because everybody knows or has done Weight Watchers. But I can't even remember what the exact stat is, or whatever, or even where I read this, but somewhere along the lines of my lifetime, I've read or saw something on the internet, on TV, somewhere about the whole business model of Weight Watchers, and the idea of becoming a Weight Watchers lifetimer- like once you hit a certain benchmark of weight loss, then you're- you know, Yeah, absolutely. Also, sidenote, how did we ever not you're- you're a lifetimer, and you get to go to the meetings for free once you hit that lifetime status. But if you gain weight back, you have to pay to keep going back to the meanings. That, in my mind, really personifies and depicts this so clearly, because they want us to keep coming back. Like they want us to keep spending this money. They want us to rely on the app, or the system, or whatever, so that we feel like we're in control in this situation of our food intake, and it just keeps us in this place of relying on these external things to feel like we're in control of our bodies. Uh, yeah. see that? Like, obviously, if everybody was losing weight and
Naomi Katz:If your- if your diet worked, man, this would not keeping it off, that- that model for Weight Watchers would be unsustainable. Clearly, that's not something they're particularly worried about happening. be profitable for you.
Sadie Simpson:No. They want you to keep paying that money.
Naomi Katz:Right. Ugh, God. Anyway. The fact that diet culture works so hard to disconnect us from our ability to trust both ourselves and our bodies- which, I think it's important to say it's both of these things, because it's not just about, I don't know how to eat, I don't know how to exercise. Because, if that's the case, then Intuitive Eating would just be about figuring out how to eat. And it's not, right? Like there's- it's a much bigger picture than that. And it's really about how we relate to ourselves. Again, this is sort of like the self love versus body love conversation. We are not our bodies, we're more than our bodies. And so diet culture disconnects us from both of those things. And as a result, we end up in a place where like, okay, we know about Intuitive Eating- maybe we know that this is a framework- but we don't trust ourselves to do it, because we don't trust ourselves to rely on our own internal wisdom and cues for guidance instead of external rules. I feel like so many people have said to me, you know, oh my gosh, that sounds so great, but I just don't trust myself to eat intuitively. Have you heard that too?
Sadie Simpson:Oh, yeah. Many, many, many times.
Naomi Katz:Yeah. And I mean, it makes sense, right? We have all been conditioned to believe that we can't be trusted to eat without rules. I mean, that we can't be trusted to do anything without rules. But especially in terms of Intuitive Eating, that we can't be trusted to eat without rules- that if we take away the rules, we're just going to eat nothing but pizza and doughnuts, or, you know, fill in the blank- whatever your trigger food is- forever, and that we're going to end up in a health catastrophe. And of course, that's because diet culture also has us believing that body size and health are the same thing. So like, enter the fatphobia into this conversation as well, and the the medical weight stigma, and all of that. This stuff gets ingrained in us by so many different places- doctors, fitness professionals, celebrities, our friends, and our family- from the person to person level all the way to the institutional level. And it's just- I mean, public health policy pushes this narrative, doctors who make weight loss recommendations, anybody who makes weight loss recommendations, complimenting weight loss does this. There's kind of no end to the ways that we get indoctrinated into this belief that our bodies and our eating habits need to be controlled, need to be regulated, can't be left to our own discretion. There's another layer to this too, which is that we're dieting basically for our entire lives, and that means that we are constantly swinging from one extreme of restriction to the other extreme of binging. Because that's how that cycle works, is that, like, you're constantly back and forth between those two things. So it makes it seem- like, you can't even imagine that there might be a middle ground without rules. Like, if you've only ever seen yourself binge or restrict, the idea that there is a middle ground, where you're not doing either of those things, seems like really hard to wrap your brain around. And it's complicated, because the thing about Intuitive Eating is, when you stop restricting, you do swing on that pendulum for a little bit. And it can be scary, because it seems like that's reinforcing the belief that we can't actually be trusted. It's like, oh my God, my worst fear is that I'm going to try Intuitive Eating and that I'm never going to be able to stop eating x. And then the thing is, when you start Intuitive Eating, you actually can't stop eating X for a little while. And it feels like, oh my gosh, all my worst fears are coming true, I knew I couldn't be trusted, all of that stuff. As Intuitive Eating professionals, it's so important for us to be talking to people about what this is going to be like. This doesn't mean you can't be trusted, it actually means you can be trusted. Your body is doing what it is supposed to do by having you refeed like that.
Sadie Simpson:Yeah, and that is very scary for a lot of folks, because everybody who goes through this process of disengaging from dieting, and practicing Intuitive Eating- like that is a part of the process, is to kind of like swing, possibly to like the extreme opposite of eating all the doughnuts in one sitting. And talking about this publicly, I think, is really important. Gosh, it happens to everybody. Like we all go through sort of these phases and through the stages of our practice with Intuitive Eating. And just, again, recognizing that this happens, and then eventually recognizing that there is middle ground, and it is pretty boring, and it is not structured. And honestly, it becomes very, very, very comforting to not toggle back and forth between these two big extremes. But it takes time to get to that point. So just normalizing that this is a practice, it takes time, it takes intention. It's not like an overnight, flip a switch, and you're automatically a, quote unquote, intuitive eater. But once you do get to that point of this boring middle ground, it's pretty freakin amazing, because it opens up the door to examine how all of these other areas of self control around things like dieting and exercise, it mimics relationships, our jobs, parenting, and it- it just cracks it all open, to where we begin to trust ourselves in so many other areas.
Naomi Katz:Yeah, absolutely. And you're totally right. We need to make this part public. You know-
Sadie Simpson:Yes. PSA.
Naomi Katz:I think that one of the things- Yeah. Like, I think one of the reasons is, even on Intuitive Eating social media, most of the time you see what Intuitive Eating looks like at chapter 20 or something. But we all start at that beginning point. If you look online, you rarely see people swinging on the pendulum. Instead you see people who are like, this was my Intuitive Eating win for today- like, this was my success. And when you see- when you only ever see that, like, chapter 20, you see people living in that middle ground, not in that- in the process of getting to that middle ground. And so like, yeah, those of us who are in that social media space really need to be doing a better job of being transparent about like the messy, hard part too, because every single one of us went through it.
Sadie Simpson:Yeah.
Naomi Katz:Nobody just flips a switch and is like, cool, I'm an intuitive eater now. Everybody goes through that. And the reality is that sometimes we go through it more than once- like, as we unpack new stuff, and as, you know, things change in our lives, and stuff like that. And so people like Sadie and I have a responsibility here to- to, like, be really open and honest about that part, so that when other people get to it, they're not like, I'm doing it wrong, I can't be trusted. They can know that that is a part of the process that we all go through.
Sadie Simpson:Yeah.
Naomi Katz:We're gonna get into the details of how we go about cultivating self trust- we're going to work through like a couple of techniques for doing that. But before we even get into that, I just want to say, plainly, that you can eat intuitively. If hearing this conversation about, like, I can't trust myself to eat intuitively, resonates with you, I just want you to know that, yes, you can be trusted. Yes, you can eat intuitively. We're all born with that ability, and we can all reconnect with it. For some of us, it's going to be harder than others. It's not going to be an easy path for everybody. I mean, for anybody, really. But, you know, it might not look like what you think it's gonna look like, but you're not doing it wrong. You can be trusted. It's working, you're healing. It's all fine. I promise. Let's talk about cultivating self trust. I am a big believer that it is one of the most important parts of ditching diet culture and reclaiming our autonomy. You almost can't do the other stuff if this isn't part of it. I think self trust work is how we learn to take ownership of our choices. It's how we learn to connect to our bodies and our intuition. It's how we learn to take steps towards our goals that maybe we've been holding back from for various reasons. When we build self trust, we learn how to let go of all like the shoulds, or like the expectations and stuff. And it really gets us to the point where we can make our own path, instead of just playing by somebody else's rules. Personally, as a coach, as an intuitive eater myself, one of the things that has been so interesting is to see how self trust in one part of our lives can help build self trust in other parts of our life. Learning how to trust ourselves with food can kind of go the opposite direction- can carry over to learning how to trust ourselves in a million other areas. By the same token, recognizing the other areas of our lives where we do trust ourselves- because we all have some, even if we're super disconnected from our self trust in a lot of areas. There's always like something that we trust ourselves about, and recognizing that, leaning into that, unpacking that, can also help us see ourselves as trustworthy with food, and with our body, and stuff like that. It sort of like proves to us that we have this inherent trustworthiness and inherent competence, and that that can be true in other areas, too.
Sadie Simpson:We all have some specific area where we really trust ourselves, whether- you know, it may not be with food or whatever- but if we can kind of like tune inward a little bit and consider what those specific areas are that help us tap into that when we're exploring Intuitive Eating- or anything, really, for that matter- that we want to kind of cultivate some more self trust.
Naomi Katz:Let's maybe walk through three things that I think are really powerful for cultivating and reclaiming our self trust. And the first one is reinforcing your own trustworthiness.
Sadie Simpson:Yep.
Naomi Katz:So like the first thing- you know, if diet culture thrives on making us feel like we're getting everything wrong, the best antidote is recognizing that we're getting some stuff right, right? So starting by building a conscious awareness of where we are getting it right. Where we do feel confident in our choices? Building awareness of our strengths and things like that can be really really powerful. We all have some areas- like for some people, that's parenting- that like they might second guess themselves everywhere, but they know what they want to do with their kids. For some people, it's their jobs. Maybe you second guess everything about your life, but you know that you are the best at what you do, at your job. Relationship- I'm a great friend, I'm a great partner, I'm a great something. Like, we all have something where we can be like, this is an area where I am good at things, and where I trust my own decisions, I'm not constantly second guessing myself. Which doesn't mean you never have a moment where you're like, was that the right thing? But you know, where, at least for the most part, you- you don't find yourself second guessing every decision.
Sadie Simpson:So to totally put you on the spot, what is an area in your personal life where you trust yourself and you consider yourself to be really good at?
Naomi Katz:I am good at relationships. I think I'm a good partner. I think I'm a good daughter. I think I'm a good friend. I think that I- that's an area where I feel like I- I have a good connection to my instincts, and where I, most of the time, feel like I know the right thing to do. Also taking care of my dog. I'm- I am a great dog mom.
Sadie Simpson:That's awesome.
Naomi Katz:What about you?
Sadie Simpson:I feel like I am a really good group fitness instructor and personal trainer- like especially with group fitness- like, I'm a really good instructor. I feel very confident in front of a class. If something goes wrong, I can shift things up on the fly. And I mean, obviously, there's been a skill I've cultivated over the last 15 or so years, but I trust myself in that arena. Which is real interesting, because I've had various conversations with friends over the years, like I'm a very introverted person. And I have one friend specifically, she was always like, well, how does an introverted person get up and teach Zumba in front of a class of 50 people? Like it's different. Like I feel very confident in this area. I am the leader in this area. I'm not having to sit and engage in conversations with people. I don't know. That's a totally different thing.
Naomi Katz:I love that and I- while, amazingly, I have never taken one of your classes, I am not even remotely surprised to hear that that is an area of strength for you. Also, I thought we weren't allowed to say that. So let me also throw out the place where I actually feel, like, the most like I trust myself is in my coaching.
Sadie Simpson:Oh, yeah. Yes, you are totally allowed to say that. And also, disclaimer, there's a cat walking around on my desk. So if y'all hear like cat scratches and meows, that's what's happening during the recording of this episode.
Naomi Katz:I am very much enjoying the cat walking on your desk because I get to see this cat real up close and personal.
Sadie Simpson:Yes.
Naomi Katz:One of the things that we can do is we recognize these areas where we trust ourselves, where we feel like we know what we're doing, and we kind of start to notice, like, what does that feel like? What does it feel like when I know what I'm doing? What does it feel like when I don't have to second guess myself? And recognizing that feeling in those areas can help us to recognize that feeling when it starts to show up around food, and bodies, and other areas of our lives where we don't feel it as much. And then, when we can start to notice those early signs of that feeling, we can also kind of lean into that. So really taking that and trying to transfer it. Like noticing. So it's like when we when we start to practice honoring our hunger. A lot of times we start with tuning into other things. You know, sometimes we start with something really general, like does my body feel pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral. And then we start looking at other body states- so like needing to pee, being thirsty, like being tired. And the more we learn to tune into that stuff, the more we train our bodies to be able to tune into things that might be more complicated, like hunger, and fullness, and stuff like that. This is very similar to that. It's like cross training. The second thing that I think is super, super important in terms of rebuilding and cultivating our self trust is looking at how we define success and failure, and maybe taking some time to redefine those things.
Sadie Simpson:Oh yeah, I think that is super super important, because diet culture does seep into this area, especially, and expects us to fail- like, specifically, like diet programs expect us not to succeed at them. That is how they are created. That is how all of these extreme workout programs are designed- to be like a 30 Day Shred, and, you know, all this just extremity and stuff. It- there's another one that I've recently just heard of, and it's called like 75 hard, or something like that.
Naomi Katz:I recently heard of that one too.
Sadie Simpson:Yeah.
Naomi Katz:It basically sounds like it's Whole 30, but for longer and with more restrictions.
Sadie Simpson:Yes.
Naomi Katz:Which, like, cool, let's- I guess Whole 30 harder is basically- like, subtitle.
Sadie Simpson:Exactly. Yep. It is another one of these things that like sets us up to fail. Like another example.
Naomi Katz:Yeah. Well, to quote the Weight Watchers CEO, that's where the money is.
Sadie Simpson:Yes.
Naomi Katz:Never forget that the Weight Watchers CEO actually said that. The thing is that, okay, we know diets fail, but diet culture teaches us that when we fail, we become failures. Diet didn't work, you're a failure. Exercise program didn't stick, you're a failure. Body doesn't fit the, you know, societal ideal, you personally are a failure. And being a failure comes with a ton of guilt and shame. So the thing that's so so important to remember and to start, like, unpacking and redefining is that failure is an experience, not an identity. We are not defined by our experiences, we're informed by them. So what that means is that we learn from our experiences, we build on our experiences, we use our experiences to move forward, and we can let our experiences guide us without letting them control us.
Sadie Simpson:I think that is like the key right there. Experiences guide us. They don't have to control us.
Naomi Katz:And again, listen, when it comes to diets, what informs us is that diets don't work. You know, like maybe this is just, like, over a long enough period of time, what we learn is diets don't work. Obviously, we're talking broader than just diets here. And so, you know, the reality is that when we fail, we grow, and we learn. I think diet culture conditions us to feel like getting things wrong, like things not going the way we thought they were going to, or the way we wanted them to go, makes us like broken or weak in some way. But I would counter that with maybe considering that things not going our way- maybe that makes us brave. Maybe it makes us confident, or tenacious, or ambitious. Maybe failure isn't something that makes us worse, but it's something that makes us better. Because we can learn from it, and take those lessons, and apply them to something else moving forward.
Sadie Simpson:Whenever I first got pregnant and had my kid, I was like hell bent on going back to work full time. I was like, I'm not going to be a stay at home mom, I'm going back to work. And I did that for about a year. And like, during that year, everything changed- my values changed, my priorities changed, my perception on work changed. And I can remember going through this process of examining, was I going to leave my full time job, was I going to be a part time worker slash part time stay at home parent. And during that part of that process, a part of me was like, man, I'm gonna look like an idiot and a failure to all these people that I said, I'm never quitting my job, like, I'm gonna go back to work, I'm gonna be this modern working mom, or whatever. And I had a co worker, like, on one of my last days- this is gonna kind of make me tear up a little bit- but she was like, you know what, you're really brave for doing this. And I had never considered that. Like, I knew it wasn't in alignment with what I wanted to do. It wasn't in alignment with my priorities and stuff. But nobody had ever said that to me out loud, to solidify this decision. And like, I think about that all the time in any decision that I make now, whether it's with career choices, or parenting choices, or financial choices, or anything like that- tapping into some of these perceived failures, and recognizing, no, this is bravery, this is courage, this is confidence, and making a decision that feels right in alignment with what needs to happen.
Naomi Katz:Oh my god, I love that story so much. Thank you so much for sharing that.
Sadie Simpson:Yeah.
Naomi Katz:I think it encapsulates this like so perfectly. And it's also just a beautiful story.
Sadie Simpson:Yes.
Naomi Katz:I love that so much. That was for sure brave. That was a brave decision. And I think a lot of times the decisions that we make, after something that we would otherwise perceive as a failure, they're very brave decisions, the decisions that we make after that. Like deciding not to finish something can be really brave. Deciding to completely shift and do something that you never thought you were gonna do can be brave. Again, it can be confident, tenacious- and like there's so many words that are not weak or broken. So important to start looking at, was it a failure, or was it a learning experience?
Sadie Simpson:Yes.
Naomi Katz:Failure is not an identity. It's so funny- I'm like hesitating a little bit every time I say the word failure. But the reality is, I feel like it's a word that- you know, much like we use fat as a neutral descriptor, because there's nothing wrong with fat, fat can be beautiful, fat can be healthy, fat can be- like fat- it's just- it's short, it's tall, it's- it's nothing. You know, there's no morality associated with it. I feel like failure is the same thing. Like, let's say failure. Let's say, I failed, and like, just not let it carry the morality that it usually carries with it.
Sadie Simpson:Oh, my gosh, that is the quotable of this episode. I love that. Amen to that.
Naomi Katz:Yes, excellent. Finally, the last thing- and I And so, you know, we just start thinking about, like, Yeah, I think that's a big distinction to make there. Like think we've kind of talked about this one before on the pod too- is to really start examining the why behind what we do. Diet culture very much relies on our obedience and our unwillingness why am I doing this? Wearing makeup can be like a great to ask questions. It kind of needs us to not look too closely at why we want what we want, or why we do what we do, or why we feel what we feel, and all of that stuff. It's like, don't look at the man behind the curtain, kind of a situation. Because diet culture and autonomy can't coexist. Like, I example of this. And, you know, we've talked about the makeup think we've laid the groundwork enough over the course of this pod for me to be able to just say that without having to explain it too much. The most important part of autonomy is the why. It's the why we do things. The intention and thing before on our beauty standards episode. I love awareness behind our actions is what's most important. That's what determines whether an action is rooted in autonomy or in social conditioning. It's that whole rooting out the autopilot that we talk about so much on here. True autonomy wearing makeup sometimes. I am rarely wearing makeup because I requires that we question the structures that benefit when we make decisions out of habit or conditioning, and it requires that we're like constantly examining our beliefs, and our expectations, and stuff like that. Self trust is inextricably intertwined with autonomy. When we're acting out of an think that I have to wear makeup for some reason. I'm not gonna unexamined habit, or out of conditioning, when we're in that autopilot place, it's also really possible that we're acting out of alignment with who we are, with what we want, with what we value. And it's really, really hard to trust ourselves in situations that aren't authentic to us. lie, there are still some times where I do feel that should, and I still do it. But I know that that's what I'm doing. you recognize what this is happening. Because I feel like it's, you know, it's what society says I need to do. But at least there's that awareness there. Yeah. Because, you know, sometimes we have to make the decision that is like the most societally acceptable, because there's actual costs for not doing so. And so, let's not pretend we live in like a utopian world where we can all just do whatever, and there's no consequences for that. As always, I feel like the important thing is just to be able to say- like, in order for it to be an autonomous decision- so like, even when I wear the makeup because I feel like I'm supposed to for this social situation, and that there's a should there, I know that's why I'm doing it, and so it's still an autonomous choice. I'm actively choosing to go along with the social narrative. I'm aware that the social narrative is there. I'm aware that the expectation is there. I could say no, I'm not going to do it because I don't care what the cost of not doing it is. That's my choice. And it's also my choice to say, I'm going to do the thing because there's a benefit to my doing the thing. Yeah. I think, like when we're starting this practice, a really helpful way to approach it is to listen- you know, we ask ourselves why, and then we listen for the word- and then we listen for the word should in the answer. I think that should is like almost antithesis- like the opposite of why, basically. I don't know if- that doesn't really work out exactly. But I think you know what I mean.
Sadie Simpson:It makes sense. Yeah.
Naomi Katz:When we hear that should in the answer when we ask why, it most of the time is pointing to a feeling of social obligation, a set of external rules, something like that. We get to choose, do we do the should, or do we not do the should. And I think our feelings about it are what really change. So like, we might make the same decision either way, once we ask the why. But how we feel about it I think is going to be really different. The outcome kind of isn't the point- again, pointing back to the makeup situation- it's the why. It's like the ability to recognize why you're making a decision, and the ability to trust yourself to make the decisions that are in your own best interests. And I think that's the phrase that's key. Sometimes doing the thing that aligns with the social narrative is in your best interest. Sometimes it's not. But either way, you're the one who gets to assess that and decide.
Sadie Simpson:Yeah, I think that ties this whole episode up really, really nicely. And that we do have the ability to trust ourselves. But in that process, we have to learn how to let go of some of these external control factors, whether it is a diet program, or a exercise program, or a societal structure that says that we have to parent one specific way, or that our careers have to be a very structured, nine to five, go to an office do this thing. Like there's so many external narratives and societal narratives that can really be questioned when we give ourselves the space and the opportunity to examine the idea of trust and control.
Naomi Katz:Yeah, absolutely. And you can see how kind of all of this stuff applies. It totally applies to food, it totally applies to our bodies. But it also very much applies to like all the other things.
Sadie Simpson:Yeah.
Naomi Katz:I think that's that on self trust and diet culture.
Sadie Simpson:That was heavy.
Naomi Katz:So if you're having any thoughts about, you know, self trust and diet culture, and how these things are showing up in your life, we would love to hear from you. Come visit us on Instagram@satisfactionfactorpod. Leave us a comment, send us a DM, just sort of let us know what you're thinking.
Sadie Simpson:Okay, Naomi, what is satisfying for you right now?
Naomi Katz:Okay, I am going to do the podcast version of vague-booking right now. I did a thing this week that I was so incredibly nervous about, and it went amazingly well, and like it made me feel so good about the work that I'm doing, and the community that we have here in Asheville, and just like the way narratives are shifting in the media, and stuff like that. And I promise I will give more information on this in just a few weeks. But for the time being, like I kind of have to vague-book it a little bit. But I was so nervous about it, and I was so nervous about trying to make sure that like a conversation I was having around Intuitive Eating and body image was framed in a way that aligns with my values. And it's just- yeah, it was just great. And it's funny, I actually like posted a little thing in my Instagram stories, like, I'm nervous, send good vibes, and I got so many really kind, and awesome, and supportive messages. So that feels really good too.
Sadie Simpson:Instagram doesn't always suck, so yay.
Naomi Katz:That's true. It's very true. Awesome. Sadie, what's satisfying for you right now?
Sadie Simpson:We are getting ready to go to the beach. So I'm just really excited and satisfied to have a little change of scenery, get out of town for a couple of days, and touch the ocean.
Naomi Katz:Yes, yes to touching the ocean. I am at the point- it's so funny, this actually airs the week that I am at the beach- but as we're recording it, that's still a couple of weeks away. And it's so funny, because I've been rewatching The Wilds on Amazon. The Wilds- okay, first of all, it's awesome. Highly recommend. The second season just came out, so I went back and started watching the first season again. But like basically it- people are stranded on a desert island essentially. And I'm watching it going, god, that looks great. So just, yeah- Yes to touching the ocean in all contexts, right?
Sadie Simpson:Yes. All right. Well, that wraps up our episode for this week. We'll see you next time.