#46 - Mindfulness & Kind Attention as the Antithesis to Diet Culture with Elizabeth Watkins Price

This week we’re talking to Elizabeth Watkins Price, an intentional life design and mindfulness coach.

Elizabeth started EWP Consulting in 2021, after working many kinds of jobs over the last
two decades, including years spent as a classroom teacher, a civil rights lawyer, and a judicial
educator. One pillar of her consulting business is transition coaching, where she helps clients
navigate significant life changes ranging from divorce to career transitions, and also coaching
people who are approaching retirement. Elizabeth is also both personally and professionally
committed to her work as a mindfulness meditation teacher. She designs courses that weave
together the subjects of body awareness, body compassion, and body liberation into the
development of a mindfulness meditation practice.

We had an amazing conversation with Elizabeth about the power of mindfulness and kind attention as the antithesis to diet culture, the issues with how Western mindfulness overlaps with the wellness industrial complex, and how she's integrating the concepts of body liberation and body compassion into her mindful meditation practice spaces.

Here's where you can find Elizabeth:
Website
Instagram

And you can find out about Elizabeth's upcoming Introduction to Mindfulness & The Body course, her free community care space, and all of the other ways to work with her by clicking here!

You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

For this episode's transcript, visit: www.satisfactionfactorpod.com

Want to connect with us to deepen the conversation? Join us in our online community, The Satisfaction Space!

Want to show the world that you love the pod? Get t-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, stickers, totebags & more at Teepublic!

You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

Transcript

Naomi Katz: 0:03

Welcome to Satisfaction Factor, the podcast where we explore how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. Welcome back to Satisfaction Factor. I'm Naomi Katz, an Intuitive Eating, body image, and self trust coach.

Sadie Simpson: 0:25

I'm Sadie Simpson, a group fitness instructor, personal trainer, and Intuitive Eating counselor. Today on the podcast, we are talking to Elizabeth Watkins Price. Elizabeth started EWP Consulting in 2021, after working many kinds of jobs over the last few decades, including years spent as a classroom teacher, a civil rights lawyer, and a judicial educator. One pillar of her consulting business is transition coaching, where she helps clients navigate significant life changes, ranging from divorce to career transitions, and also coaching people who are approaching retirement. Elizabeth is also both personally and professionally committed to her work as a mindfulness meditation teacher. She designs courses that weave together the subjects of body awareness, body compassion, and body liberation into the development of a mindfulness meditation practice. This was a great conversation with Elizabeth, and I just I love her, and I can't wait for everyone to hear what she's all about.

Naomi Katz: 1:29

Yeah, she is fantastic. And her approach to mindfulness meditation is just long overdue and great. So enjoy everybody. So welcome, Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here with us today.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 1:45

Thank you so much for having me. I am delighted to- actually I was gonna say meet you in person, but we are still on Zoom- but I'm- I'm excited to be having a synchronous conversation with both of you at the same time, rather than just, you know, listening to the podcast while I'm on a walk.

Naomi Katz: 2:02

We definitely feel the same way. If it's alright with you, we're gonna just dive right in. What we like to sort of start with with all of our guests is, can you give us an idea of what your personal experience with diet culture has been?

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 2:15

Oh, yeah, that is a doozy to start with. I guess, like most people in this culture, it's extensive. I have- I have- I have been kind of dredging up some of these memories in my writing and my work around this subject. I have at first been disturbed to realize- and then sort of some made friends with this- this fact about myself- that in fact, diet culture stretches back to my very earliest memories, as a small child crawling on a counter, you know, to reach into the off limits goodies that had been hidden out of reach. And, yeah, so it's- it goes all the way back. And it has been messy, and complicated, and varying degrees of traumatic along the way. And then in the last decade, it has been sort of the unpeeling of that onion, the layers of sort of little tastes of- I'm just really mixing metaphors with this, but that's okay. As I'm unpeeling the layers- the layers of the onion, I guess I'm tasting them. But it's these little niblets of freedom. You know, just little bits and pieces of space. That's- that's been the process for me. The healing has- has been, like for so many, not linear, not- not straightforward at all. And yet, it has been so different from what came before that I've wanted more with each- yeah- each new little bit of it.

Naomi Katz: 3:54

Mm-hmm. I love that. I love all the metaphors, for one thing.

Sadie Simpson: 3:57

We love a metaphor around here.

Naomi Katz: 3:59

And they're all like just really spot on. Like, I don't feel like there's any need to just stick with one metaphor because they all fit.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 4:07

That's right.

Sadie Simpson: 4:08

Yes.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 4:09

All foods and all metaphors fit in this conversation.

Naomi Katz: 4:13

Yes, exactly. And sometimes when the metaphor is a food, that also fits. I mean, I don't love it for you that your memories of

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 4:20

Yeah. Double whammy. diet culture go that far back. But, you know, it's- it's so important, I think, for people to hear how many people have these memories that go that far back, and that even when they go that far back, healing is something that they can get to. And it's not going to be linear, and it's not going to be quick, and it's not going to be easy, and it's going to take some time, and some twists and turns, and stuff like that. So, yeah, I really appreciate you sharing kind of that whole arc with us. Yeah, I think it is so important, you know, to see that- I remember when learning- like when I first learned about Intuitive Eating, somebody talking about- oh, it must have been Christy Harrison- you know, talking about people's food histories, and- and the people who would talk about, oh, I didn't have any dieting history until high school, or until college, until my wedding, or whatever those landmarks that can also be triggers. And I just- and she would always say, well, that helps, you know, that makes it easier, you have these earlier memories to reconnect with. And I always found that, even though she was- she was really skilled at- at telling other stories, I found it a little dispiriting. And like, there are so many ways that diet culture and other systems of oppression make us feel like we're broken, make us feel like there's something so very wrong. And- and I think that that's a starting point that makes it hard to do the work to feel better. Not that it's just all in our control. I mean, the systems- yeah, it's- I talk a lot about the inner and outer work, but-

Naomi Katz: 6:10

Yeah, it kind of has to be both right?

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 6:12

Exactly.

Naomi Katz: 6:12

Like, we can't just do one or the other.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 6:14

I have had a really winding path in my professional life as well. I think there's a temptation, especially as someone who works in- you know, I do coaching, and I coach people around professional changes- and I have this version of the story where it's like, I can tell you how

Naomi Katz: 6:30

Yeah, I love that. But like, yeah, I see what you- these things fit together in this way that kind of makes sense, to go from being an ESL teacher for five years, to being a civil rights lawyer, like, to then doing judicial education, and now being a mindfulness teacher and coach. There are connecting threads. And I have always been an educator, I have always been an advocate. And so there are these themes that are really true. And also, I think it's just another sort of example of how I have really invested in the work in my- in my adulthood has been about trying to be more and more true to who I know myself to be. And that evolves. I think that, in some ways, this process has been about making the next best decision, time after time, knowing what I knew at that moment. When I spent five years in the classroom and encountered just so many systems of oppression for my students that were too big to solve in the classroom, you know, despite the great work that we did on reading and on language acquisition. Then, you know, law school seemed like an avenue to get better tools. And law school also seemed like a way to get some- some safety in my own life, in a way that was not entirely internally motivated. So as I stepped off of the achievement wheel, and increasingly looked for the places that were in alignment with what I was learning about, kind of how I wanted to spend my time and where my gifts really are, I think I was getting closer. And I was- I don't regret any of the the twists and turns. It's- it's been a little bit of a winding road, though. what you mean about the common threads. I can- because I can see education, I can see advocacy, and like that those things sort of carry through all of those iterations.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 8:31

Yeah, I think that those are the- that those threads are the pieces that feel true to kind of like identity level, like to how I see myself. And now it's just experimenting with how to use them in the ways that feel most meaningful and potentially most impactful.

Naomi Katz: 8:46

So I know that one of the things that you do is like transition coaching, like coaching folks through life transitions and stuff. And I'm very curious about whether that's something where you see diet culture type narratives showing up for folks, and holding them back, and complicating those transitions.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 9:06

Oh, I love that. And yes. I think that those narratives complicate and- like all of our lives. And so it's interesting because, actually, that transition coaching started as more specifically retirement coaching. And- and even so, working with women approaching retirement, there were a lot of conversations around Intuitive Eating and Health at Every Size, because that was work that I was doing. And so in sharing some tools and conversations, it was coming up. And it was as transformative for folks who were at that stage in their professional life- you know, figuring out that- that third act, as- as it's sometimes called- as it is in, you know, in younger people. And I'm going to just tell you like a brief story about how it- one way that this sort of shows up. It's not just diet culture, it's all of these limiting stories that we learned really early on, persist. And I remember talking with a judge who was a year away from retirement. And she was talking about how, even so, every time she sat down to write a decision, she had the thought go through her mind of, is this the time where I don't have any idea what to say? And I thought, oh, wow. As a new lawyer, when I was having this conversation with her, I was like, oh, no, it doesn't- this feeling's not gonna go away.

Sadie Simpson: 10:36

Wow.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 10:38

But then there was something that was sort of like, as I- as I became more skilled with learning how to work with thoughts, and some of these other skills that I've been developing over the last decade, I realized that that's okay. You know, these thoughts are going to keep coming up. They're going to keep coming up, and we just get to work with them differently.

Naomi Katz: 10:58

Yeah. Oh, wow. I love that so much. Also, oh, my God, I can totally relate to that. Like, as long- as much as we've been doing this, I feel like there's- every time, I'm like, I'm not gonna have any idea what to say. And then the next thing I know, it's like an hour and a half later and I've, like, talked myself hoarse. And I'm like, oh, I have some things to say.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 11:17

I know something, yeah.

Sadie Simpson: 11:19

Yes.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 11:19

When do we stop being surprised by that? I don't know.

Sadie Simpson: 11:22

Never, apparently,

Naomi Katz: 11:25

You're so right about how reflective that is of these limiting beliefs that we've been sort of conditioned by society to have, by these various systems- diet culture, certainly being one of them- and all the other systems that diet culture tends to be intertwined with. So, you know, white supremacy shows up in that, sexism shows up in that, so many different systems show up in that. And that's- that's really interesting to hear how that shows up for folks as they're trying to navigate transitions in their lives, and like, what of those narratives do they want to bring with them into the next phase, and which of those narratives do they want to let go.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 12:09

Yeah, and I think because the way that I work with people is so rooted in mindfulness, it's never- you know, I'm never encouraging- never, that's a that's a word I generally avoid- but it's- it's rarely that I'm trying to convince anyone to change anything about how they're thinking. And it's more that I am inviting them to notice, and to choose how they're using those thoughts. Because, yeah, I do think that so much of it is really baked in. And the opportunity for skillful means is what comes right after that first thought.

Sadie Simpson: 12:46

Oh my gosh, that is so refreshing, almost, to hear you say that. Because a lot of times, when- not us, specifically- but when, in general, you hear from these figurehead coaches, like the celebrity people on the internet, there's this sense of authority, and the coach trying to get us to completely change our mindset, to change our lives, and to do this, that, and the other, and we will automatically be cured of all of our problems, and that sort of thing. And I love hearing the way that you bring your coaching practice to the table, and the way that you work with your clients, is not by saying, hey, you got to change your mindset, the way you're thinking is wrong, and instead, working with folks to really just kind of assess what they're thinking about, and sit with their thoughts a little bit, and incorporate some of that mindfulness practice. And I think that is just so needed in any kind of coaching leadership style position. So I just love that so much.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 13:54

I think there's space for like changing certain mindsets. But I think that- you know, I think that when we come at it from that mindset shift, like, as you're talking about, like- it's like- I think of it as the magic bean approach. It's like, this is the cure all. And that immediately puts my- I don't know- that puts me on a defense- in a defensive posture, and I'm immediately skeptical, and all kinds of things- parts of myself get shut down immediately. And so I find that, especially- I mean, it's- like, especially in relationship with talking specifically so much about the body, and about our relationship with our body, the self compassion part is the whole ball of wax really, in my opinion. It's what makes mindfulness the opposite of diet culture. It is completely antithetical to diet culture, because diet culture is making us feel inadequate, making us- you know, it's perpetuating these thoughts about our insufficiency, and our, like, you know, never stacking up ness. And the way that I teach mindfulness meditation is really with an emphasis on kind attention. It is not about silencing the mind, it is not about manufacturing some feelings that aren't true. It is about holding what is happening with enough compassion to be able to tell the truth of this moment to ourselves, and recognize that we can offer ourselves the kindness to support that you're gonna make

Sadie Simpson: 15:28

You're gonna make me cry. Like, that is literally bringing tears to my eyes. Oh my gosh, that is just so beautiful. I just- I don't have any words right now.

Naomi Katz: 15:39

Yeah, it really is. Kind attention is a phrase that- I think the first time you and I spoke, you told me about this idea, and it really- it really struck a chord with me too. I think kind attention is such a beautiful way to phrase that, and just something that- just the whole world could use more of.

Sadie Simpson: 16:02

Seriously. Oh my gosh, I never get emotional like this.

Naomi Katz: 16:08

I have never seen this happen.

Sadie Simpson: 16:11

How did you begin incorporating some of this mindfulness meditation into your coaching work?

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 16:18

I became serious about mindfulness as I left the practice of law. I was really burned out, and my anxiety disorder had gone from a thing that I was managing to a thing that was really getting away from me and becoming disruptive to my life in so many ways. And so I remember I was living in the Midwest for just this one year, and I was at a university hospital to do a mindfulness class, because that's where it was offered, and it was part of their integrative medicine. And everyone went around the circle talking about why they wanted to do this class. And- and we got around- and everybody was like, you know, even people who said things like depression or anxiety, you know, they were just like, it was a couple of words, we kept it moving. And we got to me, and I just- out of nowhere, this sob of like, I just need something to be different. It just was like, I cannot be cool in this conversation, I cannot be casual about this, and something has to give. And that was about the same time that I was- I was- I was working as a Director of Career Services. And it was when I was starting to do some of this coaching. And that was connecting in other realms. But it was pretty immediately, as I saw the potential for this to give, really, some space. Because when you're doing coaching, especially around- well, around any any big change- but around professional changes, or you know, job searches, it's so vulnerable. And this- like, this kindness- the power of this kind attention, I was just finding it so obvious. Despite my really serious intention not to describe it as a magic bean, I did feel like it was just- it was this dramatic change that was possible in how I related, and it was- it was impacting the students and the alumni that I was working with. It inserted itself.

Sadie Simpson: 18:17

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 18:17

Yeah. It's the power of having somebody meet you with like curiosity, and compassion, and kindness, and like not trying to, like, tell you what to do, but to just hold space for all your feelings around the things that you're doing. I'm curious, I know that one of the big things that you do is that you incorporate this body compassion, and body liberation, and stuff like that within your mindfulness and meditation space. And I love what you said about how like mindfulness is kind of like the antithesis to diet culture. And I'm very curious about- I think, in mainstream mindfulness and meditation, there is a lot of diet culture. At least, that's been my interpretation of like what I've seen around the internet. And I know that like, for me personally, it has felt like a big hurdle to pursuing a practice like that. You know, and I think some of it is that the practitioners are often thin, somewhat wealthy, conventionally attractive, white women. And also, I think there's something in what they're teaching that feels like that too. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 19:42

Okay, so for about a year and a half, I've been holding space for other mindfulness teachers, who- it's a very small group at the moment- but for other mindfulness teachers who are interested in or open to talking about mindfulness with a fat liberation lens. You mentioned, like, I've designed courses on mindfulness for body compassion, and mindfulness for body liberation, and I talk about myself in the teaching community as bringing a fat liberation lens to my mindfulness practice. Because I think people are really, as you mentioned, really unaccustomed. I was so disturbed when I started- like I laugh just because it's just like, oh, of course, this is what I found- but when I first started thinking that I was going to go from taking- from teaching just like these little teeny bits of mindfulness and professional development that I was doing before, to really investing some years in developing my teacher practice, I started looking around at who else is already doing this, where is there some community, and looking at who is teaching mindfulness and- and the body. There were lots of Google searches for mindfulness and for fat liberation, and it just- honestly, it all came up with diets. It came up with mindfulness for weight loss. I remember so clearly the stomach dropping, kind of teary eyed response to that, even though I also recognized it. Because I had hesitated- I had thought about doing the two year mindfulness teacher certification program two years before I actually signed on to do it, and I hadn't done it because I was so bothered by what I was seeing as diet culture in that space. And then as I continued to find that this practice was really a very significant part of my own healing journey, and that it was having impact in the other- the lives of other people where I would share it in this context, I was like, well, I guess I have to make that space. I know that there are people- now I- now I know more about other people who are doing this work. Jessamyn Stanley, for sure, I've known as a yoga teacher for a long time, but also she's teaching mindfulness- or, you know, she's teaching meditation more and more. And I know that there are others who have made that, you know, that natural kind of slide from yoga for all bodies to including more meditation. But yeah, it just seemed like this is a space that could use a whole lot more voices in it. And when I started this- this group- sorry, it's a little bit of a winding answer- but the first day that I met with the other teachers who joined my- my group for teachers open to this conversation, the common theme was, I wasn't sure that I could actually be a mindfulness teacher in a fatter body, like in a larger body, or in a fat body. People- the language that's shared in that space is really different, and so not everyone uses the same- I tend to use fat in the value neutral kind of way. But that is- yeah, it's- it's really been interesting to find the significant variety of levels of kind of experience, or language, or interest, or access to these conversations so far, and it definitely feels like a space where there's work to be done.

Naomi Katz: 23:11

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love that you're in this space doing it. Like that- like you saw this as inaccessible, you saw that it was problematic, and you like just dove right in there and created your own- like this space doesn't exist, and so I'm going to create the space. And I think that that's amazing.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 23:30

I think that, what you talked about about teachers, it's not just the like stereotype of the mindfulness teacher physique that makes it feel inaccessible. It is very, very common for people- because- especially because there's a big- one of the cornerstones in teaching mindfulness meditation is, you know, we're talking about change, and we're talking about present moment, and we're talking about compassion. They're the- some of these- the places where mindfulness gets stuck is where we're, like, clinging to something, or trying to control something, or not willing to turn towards the truth of a moment. And an example that is used really often is some variation- and I don't need to tell- I don't even need to be specific about it- but some variation on food as numbing is like just a constant, constant go to. And I found myself shutting down. The way that food was used in teaching stories was just constantly triggering me. And so yeah, I just wanted to validate that experience, because I think- I mean, I've also experienced it. And, you know, even if I hadn't experienced it, it's a valid perspective. But I think it's incredibly common. And you and I are not the only ones who've noticed it. That is persistent. And it is beginning- just as Western mindfulness- and I do want to be clear, obviously this is also a tradition that is rooted in 1000s of years of practice in other cultures- and Western mindfulness has been slow to, but is- is really trying to be intentional about addressing some of these other representations of inclusivity. It has become increasingly common to have, like a BIPOC or LGBTQ practice group, or- some of those sorts of supports are already in place. And it is- just like so many other conversations about inclusion that we're starting to see- very slow, but increasing conversations about ableism, and about all kinds of things about body acceptance, or like weight stigma. Some of that is beginning to make its way into the conversation. And it's slow. And it's still met with a lot of resistance, because there is- like, so many people who are leaders in mindfulness are also leaders in other parts of the wellness industrial complex.

Naomi Katz: 25:55

Yes, that is absolutely something that I see a lot of overlap in- that there's this huge overlap in mindfulness- because you're absolutely right, of course, mindfulness has long standing history in practice in other parts of the world and things like that, so I should definitely- like I appreciate the clarification that we're talking about like modern day Western mindfulness that is very much wrapped up in like the wellness- the, quote unquote, wellness industry. And, you know, it's like mindfulness and smoothies basically. And- and yeah, I think that overlap between that version of mindfulness and the, as you so accurately named it, wellness industrial complex is why we see so much diet culture in this version of mindfulness. And so yeah, I appreciate you clarifying that.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 26:53

I have not published any of this yet, but I am like trying to write, and trying to get clear in my own thinking, and speaking, and- and work about this, that- I just think that it is- I mean, it's baked in. So it's hard to call it a blind spot. But I think that it's- it's a real problem. And I think that when we let that part of the mindfulness community take the reins of the of the whole movement, then we lose something that's got a lot of potential for a lot of healing and help for people who could use it.

Naomi Katz: 27:28

Absolutely. So can you tell us more about how you incorporate body liberation and body compassion into your mindfulness and meditation work for yourself, with the folks that you work with, and stuff like that, and how you do incorporate that healing into it?

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 27:45

So I've created, kind of backwards, this three course series, where there's an introduction to mindfulness meditation in the body- like mindfulness in the body, introduction to mindfulness meditation for body compassion, and then introduction to mindfulness meditation for body liberation. And I designed these three courses totally backwards. I started with body liberation, and then realized that even people who wanted to talk about body liberation weren't quite ready, and so we needed to start with body compassion. And then I was like, even so, we need to- we need to like build some foundation. And so anyway, so it's kind of gone in reverse. But in each of these classes, it is a six week, pretty traditional introduction to mindfulness meditation class. And the big difference is that I'm bringing my lived experience in a fat body. And also, you know, the work that I've done in these- you know, in Intuitive Eating, and in HAES- like in understanding these frameworks, in all of the readings and conversations that have informed my work so far. And I'm using those things, and citing- you know, I want to cite Sabrina Strings, and Da'Shaun Harris, and Ruth King, and- and all of these other thinkers who talk about these themes in different ways, to use all of the quotes and teaching stories, and to make sure that they are all centering a different experience. So it's still an introduction to mindfulness class, it's just an introduction to mindfulness class with a different set of stories than- than people are used to. And I also- because it's so important to me to fill those gaps and raise the common language around this stuff- I do include a lot of resources, optional readings, and podcasts, and articles, and books, and all kinds of things that I include as resources between classes for people.

Naomi Katz: 29:40

I love that. So it's- it's not so much the practice of mindfulness meditation that changes, it's how we couch it that changes. It's the context that we put it in, and the narratives that we put it in, and the stories that we tell it through, and all of that that changes.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 30:00

I think that's right. I think there's one place where it's a little more explicit. And it is, my last class is always about engaged mindfulness, which we talk about how you bring mindfulness into the world, how it is not- you know, it's really easy to think about mindfulness as the solitary act of what you do by yourself, quote unquote, on the cushion, you know, in your chair, or on- you know, in your- own on your own two feet, or on your bed, or wherever- cuz I also do a lot of teaching around, there is not a moral hierarchy to postures, you're doing the posture that's most supportive for you on that day, and that will change day that day- but it's also not solitary, the way that we become better at being able to stay with the full breadth of the truth of the moment to moment experience, the way that we are able to deal with discomfort. And I know that resilience is not a thing that we just like want to build for the sake of it, because that comes from struggle. It is also true that we cannot resource ourselves against the struggles that are happening in our lives, unless we can acknowledge that they're happening. And so, you know, this turning towards the discomfort, and then learning how to do that compassionately, is not actually a solitary act. It's an act that ripples out into our conversations, when we're then able to do that better. And I invite people to think about that, both from, you know, from their- in their own experience, and disrupting some of these- we've talked about some of the specific ways that can- that can happen, what that micro activism looks like, as an extension of the practice of meditation.

Naomi Katz: 31:45

Oh my God, that's huge. And I also feel like it brings it kind of like full circle back to where we almost started this conversation, of how it has to be both inner work and outer work. Because like changing things- changing how you feel, personally about yourself, or about things- like, it's great, and, like, sure it can have ripples, like in your small community, which is important. But like, it's important to look at, like, okay, what can I change internally, and what needs to be changed systemically? And how do I address both of these things?

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 32:16

Exactly. Yeah. Totally.

Naomi Katz: 32:18

That's huge.

Sadie Simpson: 32:19

Oh my gosh. Can you tell us a little bit more about your courses? Are they live courses? Do you have a certain start date and end date, so that you have like a group or a cohort of people? Kind of tell us a little bit more about how all of that works, in case someone out there listening wants to get involved.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 32:35

Thank you. Thank you. Yes, they are live. They are on Zoom, though, so you don't have to be in any particular place. I have been- I've been doing them in the evenings. And I've had- in the last course I had more people on the West Coast than usual, and so I talked to a few people who had not been able to attend, and we agreed that this next one, I would try doing a lunchtime on the East Coast, first thing in the morning for the West Coast folks. And so it's an hour long Zoom. There are parts of it that are conversation, and there are parts of it that are reflection, and there are parts of it where I teach, and then we also practice. The classroom teacher in me can't resist, like, needing to- to interrupt and not let attention wander too long, because I just know that my own attention doesn't stay while someone talks at me online for an hour. So that's not how those classes run.

Sadie Simpson: 33:28

Awesome. When are you going to be launching the next course?

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 33:33

So it just went up on my website this week. And so there's definitely still room. The next course starts in the middle of September, and you can register now, or join the mailing list and keep in the loop for future classes. I'm expecting to offer all three of these at least once a year. And we'll see if there needs to be other offerings, because I do try and keep them small, and- and sometimes we're bumping up against what is the capacity on that. So I'm experimenting some, but it is still usually a small group.

Naomi Katz: 34:05

And do people have to do them in in order?

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 34:08

No. Thank you. I'm so glad you asked that. No. I mean, since they were invented in opposite order. I found also that some people- you know, you get to the end of the the class, and they're like, I only was doing this because I was in class, but I like how it's it's feeling, how do I keep doing this in class? And so it's like, well come on in with the next class. And so, yeah, you can go in any order. But I think, especially if you're really new to this conversation, to start with the first one, which conveniently is the next one that's coming up.

Sadie Simpson: 34:41

Nice.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 34:41

It's going to be- yeah- mindfulness and the body is what we'll start in the middle of September. And so yeah, we're on track to come on in at the beginning and and then we'll go on from there.

Naomi Katz: 34:52

I know that you also have a free community care space. Can you tell us a little bit more about that too?

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 34:58

Yes. Thank you. Um, that is something that started when all of the conversations and shake up was happening in the HAES community this spring. I found myself, you know, really new to using social media around my business, and just, like, not in my comfort zone at all, and wanting to do something more. And so, essentially, I found myself kind of twirling about, like, how to how to be helpful. And then I just thought, I'll just do what I know how to do. And so on Wednesdays at noon Eastern, I do a 15 minute practice, and it is intended to support fat activists and allies, and it is free- has- always has been, always will be- you know, as long as it exists, and there's interest, as long as it continues to work for my schedule. I don't see- I don't see an end in sight, though. I know things change, and interest, you know, waxes and wanes. But it's been really sweet. Some days, that's a bigger group, and some days it's really tiny. People are welcome to have input if they have, you know, a request about a skill, or a practice, or a technique, or a question. I'm open to it being a space that is designed by this community. And so, at times, there have been like online forums for feedback. People are always welcome to email me. Sometimes people unmute and ask for something. It's really adaptive, and casual, and fun. And so, yeah, sign up and come Wednesdays at noon.

Sadie Simpson: 36:31

Yay, that sounds awesome. Yeah, we'll put links to all of this in the show notes of this episode. And we'll reshare some of your posts on our Instagram page too, so that folks can easily click to find you, and to find your links that way too.

Naomi Katz: 36:46

Yeah. But just for folks who are listening, can you tell us your website and social media in case people want to find you and don't want to look for the show notes? Because I feel like nobody ever looks at the show notes.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 36:57

Oh, yeah, absolutely. My website is www.ebethwatkinsprice.com. EBeth is the only shortening of my first name that I've ever- I've ever gone for.

Naomi Katz: 37:10

I like it.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 37:12

Yeah, so a lot of my friends call me EBeth, and- and that- that's- that's what that is. And my Instagram is @byewp. So that's B-Y-E-W-P. It was a practice space for practicing being myself and pep talking myself into it out loud, for years. I was posting really bad art, and really, like, kind of joyfully posting terrible art that I was making, and then putting haikus that I needed to hear- like my kind of self pep talk haikus- for years. And I- when I then transitioned it to being my business Instagram, I just- like I couldn't let it go. I just left it all up there. So you can see- you can see what's happening now, you can see what I- what I needed several years ago. Maybe it'll be helpful.

Sadie Simpson: 38:02

Everybody's gonna go do a deep scroll on you Instagram page right now.

Naomi Katz: 38:05

I'm about to.

Sadie Simpson: 38:06

Me too.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 38:06

Its pretty fun.

Sadie Simpson: 38:10

Yes. So Elizabeth, what is satisfying for you right now?

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 38:15

I am delighted to be answering this question while we're all in the mountains of North Carolina, because what is, like, most satisfying to me, as someone who usually lives in the very swampy, muggy Triangle area in North Carolina, is mountain air in August- to have like pleasant outdoor air and- and local honey. Those are the two things that are like making this little mountain vacation that I'm on just go from being, like, pleasant to being incredibly satisfying.

Sadie Simpson: 38:50

Nice.

Naomi Katz: 38:51

Oh my god, I love that. Those are two things that I'm a big fan of as well.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 38:55

They're so good. What is better?

Naomi Katz: 38:59

That's awesome. Well, Elizabeth, thank you so much for being with us, for taking some time out of your mountain vacation to talk with us, no less. It's just- this was such a great conversation, and we just really appreciate you taking the time.

Elizabeth Watkins Price: 39:11

Oh, I'm so honored, and I'm just delighted to get to continue growing and- you know, in community with y'all, and- and to to get to be a part of this is just really a treat. So thank you so much for having me.

Naomi Katz: 39:23

Thanks again to Elizabeth Watkins Price for an awesome conversation. If you enjoyed this podcast, come and connect with us over on Instagram@satisfactionfactorpod. Or one simple thing you can do to support the podcast is to leave us a rating or a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. Those ratings and reviews help bump us up in the rankings and reach more people, and we always really appreciate it.

Sadie Simpson: 39:49

That's all for us this week. We'll see you next time.