#56 - Coping With Holiday Diet & Body Talk

If you're dreading the diet & body talk at your holiday family gatherings, you're not alone! Even if we are really good at having these conversations with friends, acquaintances, professionals, or co workers, having these conversations with family can feel way more loaded than it does in other contexts. In this episode we're discussing why diet & body talk hits different from our families, and we're also practicing some responses to common things we might hear around the table, using our Deflect, Educate, and Engage framework (which you might recall from Episode #4 - Diet Talk & Boundaries).

And if you'd like to provide your family with a place to learn more about Intuitive Eating (or if you'd like to learn more yourself), be sure to check out Sadie's 6-week Intro to Intuitive Eating course starting in January 2023!

Want to connect with us to deepen the conversation? Join us in our online community, The Satisfaction Space!

Want to show the world that you love the pod? Get t-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, stickers, totebags & more at Teepublic!

You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on Instagram @satisfactionfactorpod!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

Referenced in this episode:
Maintenance Phase - The Keto Diet

Want to connect with us to deepen the conversation? Join us in our online community, The Satisfaction Space!

Want to show the world that you love the pod? Get t-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, stickers, totebags & more at Teepublic!

You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

Transcript

Naomi Katz: 0:03

Welcome to Satisfaction Factor, the podcast where we explore how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. Welcome back to Satisfaction Factor. I'm Naomi Katz, an intuitive eating, body image, and self trust coach.

Sadie Simpson: 0:26

I'm Sadie Simpson, a group fitness instructor, personal trainer, and intuitive eating counselor.

Naomi Katz: 0:31

So before we dive into today's episode, just a quick reminder that The Satisfaction Space, our new podcast community, is officially open for you to join. We know that it can be hard to find anti diet community that's aligned with your values, especially if you're the first in your family or your friend group to make moves towards ditching diet culture, and that is why we created The Satisfaction Space. If you have ever found yourself listening to the podcast and wanting to add something to the conversation, or ask a question, or anything like that, this space was created for you.

Sadie Simpson: 1:08

The Satisfaction Space is our online membership

Naomi Katz: 1:10

Membership to The Satisfaction Space is just $10 a community and includes lots of fun things. A private virtual community of folks who share similar values and interests that you can talk to and connect with- important to note, this is not on Facebook. Bonus content during the podcast off weeks- and next week, within The Satisfaction Space, our bonus episode is going to be all about holiday food guilt. So if you like what we're talking about today, you might be interested in that extended convo over there. Monthly live virtual hangouts with us- so things like q&a sessions, mini group coaching, and more. And a community feed where you can post comments, questions, and get feedback from us, as well as your fellow community members. month, and you can enroll at thesatisfactionspace.mn.co. And of course, we will also have that link in our show notes.

Sadie Simpson: 2:08

Or if you want to support the show and you don't want to commit to a monthly membership, we have merch now. We have a handful of designs on Teepublic that can be printed as stickers, sweatshirts, mugs, tote bags, and whatever else you like. Check that out at teepublic.com/user/satisfactionfactorpod. And we'll also link that in the show notes.

Naomi Katz: 2:31

Yeah, and just a little addition to that, just want to note that things like T shirts, and sweatshirts, and stuff like that are available in sizes up to a 5x.

Sadie Simpson: 2:43

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 2:44

So today, since next week is Thanksgiving and the start of the holiday season, we are talking about coping with holiday diet and body talk, specifically with family.

Sadie Simpson: 2:59

I don't know about our listeners, but I know for me, this is going to be the first year I feel like we're getting really back into the big holiday family get togethers and meals. Like we've done some stuff here and there over the last two or three years, but because of COVID we haven't done like all the things with all the people. And this year, it's happening again.

Naomi Katz: 3:21

Yeah, I definitely feel like there's a little more momentum around the holidays this year, and a little bit less like trepidation around it and stuff than- than in past years.

Sadie Simpson: 3:34

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 3:34

Like last year felt mostly normal, but not entirely normal. And this year feels like a lot more like people are just like, oh no, we're just doing the holiday. Since that's the case, that means that a lot of us are going to be maybe seeing even more family than we did in past years or different family. Holiday diet talk, especially within our families, can be an ordeal. So we figured we would take an episode to talk about what the deal is with family diet talk, and also to offer some strategies for dealing with it. So first of all, we just want to acknowledge that like, if it feels harder to navigate diet talk with family than it does with other people in your life, that makes sense.

Sadie Simpson: 4:29

Oh, for sure.

Naomi Katz: 4:30

Even if we are really good at having these conversations with friends, with acquaintances, with professionals, maybe with co workers, and things like that- which, a lot of us don't really feel super confident even doing that- having these conversations with family can just feel like way more loaded than it does in other contexts. I know that's definitely been true for me. My mom is really like the only member of my family who I talk with specifically about these topics. Fortunately, my family really doesn't do much body or diet talk around me at this point, because they're generally just like aware of where I stand on this stuff, obviously, right? Even still, like the idea of like- even as a professional- like, even as somebody who has these conversations for a living- like, hi, we have these conversations on a podcast every week for, you know, public consumption- but even with all of that, the idea of actually having these conversations with my family totally gives me the sweats sometimes.

Sadie Simpson: 5:36

Oh, for sure. Well, I would say that most of my immediate family has really cut down on diet and body talk around me. And even when it does come up sometimes, the convo has shifted- like what we're talking about has evolved some. But I haven't really seen a lot of my extended family, especially all in one place in the last two or three years. But we're going to be seeing a lot more this year between Thanksgiving and Christmas, so I'm a little bit nervous slash also kind of interested to see what kind of food and body and diet related topics come up. So personally, I am glad that we're having this conversation today on the podcast, because I think our listeners are gonna get a lot out of it, but I also feel like this is going to be some good prep for me, too.

Naomi Katz: 6:28

Oh, yeah, same. And we will talk a little bit more later about why prep is actually a really great strategy for dealing with this. You know, the thing about dealing with this stuff with family is that like, if we have a positive relationship with our family, then like, we see them as safety, as love, as acceptance, and all of that stuff, and we don't want to introduce conflict into that, and we can also have some fears about losing those things if we have them, and stuff like that. And then on the flip side, if we have a negative relationship or a complicated relationship with family, then having these conversations might feel unsafe, might feel invalidating, and just, you know, might all around be unpleasant at varying levels- varying degrees- right? You know, the other thing is that talking about stuff like this to family members who aren't on the same page, or even who like actively disagree, can make us feel unsure, or like less secure in our own beliefs. And like, I just want to normalize that like, that also makes a lot of sense, if that's something that you're experiencing here. Our families literally taught us how to be people. Right? They taught us how to think, how to behave, what to believe, like all of that stuff. And, you know, it's very, very common, very normal for a lot of us to have since changed some of those beliefs or learned new truths from what our families taught us- you know, to have evolved our thoughts in different ways and our behaviors in different ways. But it's really, really easy to fall back into that, like, Father Knows Best kind of dynamic, right? You know, if you think about because I said so parenting, and like the dynamic of authority that very often exists between parents and children, that can like have a real impact on our ability to feel like firm in our beliefs when they differ from our family. And then like, I don't know, my experience is sort of like the flip side of that almost, it's weird. Like, I don't know, where my dad heavily encouraged us to learn how to, like, defend our arguments and our beliefs, and question things, and stuff like that. And he, like, regularly debated us about things when we were younger. Like I distinctly remember at one point, I- I was in trouble for something- I don't remember what it was- and like my, quote unquote, punishment was, for like a week, maybe, or like, for some period of time, I had to read the newspaper every day, and pick a topic to debate with him about.

Sadie Simpson: 9:20

Oh, my god. That's amazing. Oh my gosh, that's a parenting hack that I

Naomi Katz: 9:21

That was like, my punishment for something. I mean, right? Like it is- it's- it is kind of amazing. And I, you know, I'm super grateful for it in a lot of ways today because it means that I have the ability to think critically about things, and to stand firm in my beliefs, and to like vocalize my beliefs and my arguments, and stuff like that. But it also means that I'm sort of always like, expecting a debate when I talk about stuff with my family. And so like that's- that's a complicated dynamic to navigate around this stuff also. feel like I'm gonna try one day because what a great way, though, to teach your children how to build up those muscles to be able to stand up for themselves and their beliefs, and, you know, to be able to argue and critically think in a way that is persuasive. Like, I don't know, your dad- your dad sounds pretty cool. My dad's awesome. My dad is awesome. It also means that I am constantly like, dukes up ready for a debate about like any conversation that I have with my family.

Sadie Simpson: 10:44

That's awesome.

Naomi Katz: 10:45

There's a lot of dynamics that can make it really hard to be as firm in our beliefs, and as grounded in our beliefs, and all of that stuff around our families, as opposed to outside of our families.

Sadie Simpson: 11:00

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 11:01

The other thing is that family boundaries are like a whole different animal than setting boundaries elsewhere, for a lot of reasons. There's a lot of history in how we navigate boundaries with our families that like doesn't necessarily apply in other relationships, right. I think like a lot of us have very poor boundaries with family- with our families. And again, I think that's really related to that whole dynamic of authority. I think, like, we're not really allowed to have boundaries with our families, like, especially with our parents. That's something that we might feel even if it's not true. Like even if our families would actually be fine and receptive to boundaries, I think that we might have this sense that it's not appropriate to set boundaries with our families. Does that make sense?

Sadie Simpson: 11:58

Yes, that makes complete sense.

Naomi Katz: 12:00

Listen, on the other hand, some people are great at setting boundaries with family. And like, if that is you, then chances are you're not dreading this holiday talk situation nearly as much as the rest of us, and good for you. I also think there's a lot of nuances to this- like, it's not as black and white as like good boundaries or bad boundaries. Because I mean, nothing really is that black and white, right? Again, in my family- like, my family was always really, really big on honoring our privacy. Like, that was like a hard value in my family, which is awesome, and so rare, I think. And I think that translates somewhat to boundaries. I don't feel like any of us ever really, like set explicit boundaries within my family, which isn't maybe the greatest thing, but we do kind of generally recognize and honor unspoken boundaries. You know, I think we have a general sense of respect for each other's like comfort and space and stuff like that. But I don't know that any of us are particularly good at setting firm boundaries, if that makes sense.

Sadie Simpson: 13:11

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I feel like that's something I can really relate to, too, and probably a lot of other folks listening to this can as well. But this whole thing about, like, the unspoken boundaries are usually pretty well kept. And, and I feel like that's, that's an experience I've had as well. But yeah, there's not a lot of just explicitly, like, discussed, like, this is the boundary, do not cross it. There's not a whole whole lot of that.

Naomi Katz: 13:40

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it's like I said, you know, my- and it's like you mentioned also- that, like, both of our families at this point, like, are pretty good about not engaging in diet and body talk around us. I don't know about you, but I have never set a firm boundary about that with my family. They just know that that's not something that's going to be okay with me because I am who I am, and I do what I do, and I believe what I believe, and all of that stuff. And so they respect that. They honor that, and- but I've never had to actually set the boundary.

Sadie Simpson: 14:14

I guess it helps to have a podcast where you talk about this every other week. And sometimes our families also listen to this podcast, and sometimes they don't.

Naomi Katz: 14:22

It does, it works wonders. So hot tip for the holidays. Number one, start a podcast. Alright, that might not be universal advice. So all of this means that it can be really stressful and hard to navigate diet and body talk with our families, and like the holidays are especially likely to bring that up. Diet and body talk can happen at any family gathering- like it doesn't have to be about the holidays- but the holidays, culturally, also have a tendency to come with a lot of diet culture pressure too. Your average family get together might not have all of that narrative built onto it. But the holidays are full of- like all over the internet, it's like healthy hacks for, you know, holiday recipes, and getting back on track. Plus, you're already starting to lead into the New Year narratives and stuff like that. And so holidays are particularly fraught with diet culture anyway. And so like layer in the family dynamic, and it's like an especially- it's like a powder keg. We are going to do something that's very similar to a practice that I know I do with a lot of the folks that I work with before things like this. And so it's essentially- we're going to kind of like roleplay how to respond to comments that you might encounter at gatherings like this. This is, like I said, this is something that I know I do with a lot of the folks I work with, so that they don't feel caught off guard when they're in the situation. Like you basically get to plan and rehearse responses, instead of having to have your wits perfectly about you in the moment.

Sadie Simpson: 16:07

Yeah, I'm a big fan of doing this. I know sometimes if you don't have the space, or a another person to kind of bounce ideas off of or talk through or practice or roleplay, another option is opening up a Google Doc and kind of journaling ish about it. So we talked about this some over in The Satisfaction Space. But recently, someone made a comment to me about my body, and in the moment, I didn't really know how to respond. I don't feel like I responded how I would have liked to have responded. But after I had some time to think on it and reflect on it, I opened up a good old Google Doc and wrote out a speech, so to speak, about how I would have liked to have responded- maybe what I would say in the future, if this comes up again. And this is really helpful for me in a lot of ways because, one, I was able to organize my thoughts, and it was just helpful for me to get it out of my brain and onto a document. But, two, I feel a lot better about being able to respond to a similar comment in the future, because I've already kind of had the conversation.

Naomi Katz: 17:16

I love that idea so so much. Like, it's great to be able to like talk it out, but like, for a million reasons that's not necessarily accessible to everybody. So being able to, you know, pull up a Google Doc and write it out, or your notes app on your phone, or voice notes could be a way to do this too, like if you want to just talk it out to nobody, I mean, but still be able to hear it back if you need to. But yeah, it's just- you know, any of these techniques, the whole thing is just getting to a place where you feel like you have some go to responses that you can like pull up without having to like invent the wheel in the moment.

Sadie Simpson: 18:02

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 18:04

So yeah, so we're gonna do that with some holiday family comments, to give you some ideas of how you might respond and how you might cope with that. As always, these are not scripts. You know, like, you want to respond in a way that feels authentic to you. These are just like jumping off points. And it's going to come with a framework. So you might remember from when our- one of our earliest episodes- it's actually episode number four, Diet Talk & Boundaries.

Sadie Simpson: 18:35

Wow. That was such a long time ago. It's- I remember this episode, but number four just seems like-

Naomi Katz: 18:41

Yeah.

Sadie Simpson: 18:42

Dang.

Naomi Katz: 18:43

Yeah. So yeah, episode number four, Diet Talk & Boundaries, we introduced a framework that we like to use for responding to diet talk. It is called deflect, educate and engage. And the goal is to basically just have like different levels of responses that honor our comfort levels, our capacity, and our willingness to engage. And so we're going to take some examples of common things we might hear from family members at the holidays and apply that framework to some responses. So before we start working through comments, just as a refresher, let's- let's sort of go through what we mean by deflect, educate, engage. So deflect is a response that is meant to move past the comment without contributing to harm- so without like affirming diet culture, or the various systems upheld in diet culture. You know, the root of this is that it's actually okay to not respond to these comments directly at all. There's a lot of reasons why we might not want to give a direct answer, and that's- that's okay. So deflecting is- is a way to do that. Educate is a response for when you have some capacity, some comfort, some knowledge with the topic and the person, and you're dealing with someone who might be open to learning. That's a key part of this. Like, there's no point in educating somebody who's like- just who you know is just not at all interested in learning anything new. It helps to have resources that you can refer people to for more information if they want it. That's the kind of thing where you can point somebody to a podcast, a book, a course, a blog, and a social media post, something like that, that can sometimes be helpful in that educate level of response. But it's also not entirely necessary, depending on how much the person wants to be educated. And then that third level, engage, is like the highest- requires sort of the highest level of capacity of comfort, of safety, of ability to support a person, and stuff like that. And you definitely have to be dealing with someone who is open to engaging in conversation about this stuff. It might include some aspect of education, but I think it's a little bit more rooted in like personal experience. Like it- I think it benefits a lot from I statements, as opposed to like clinical data that you might use in an educate. The other thing that's important to note with engage is it kind of requires an environment of trust or consent. You know, like, if you're really going to dig in, you want to make sure that it's okay to share something, if you're going to share something significant. You might want to- if they- if you're really going to dig in, you want to make sure that somebody is comfortable doing that with you, that you're not just like forcing the conversation on them, basically. And that usually involves an invitation to dig deeper with the person. I don't think that's always the case. I think the thing with engage is that sometimes it can just be about sharing your personal experience, and then seeing where the conversation goes. So like, it doesn't have to be a, so do you want to talk about that more? It can just be sharing your personal experience, but also being open to continuing the conversation if the person has questions about it, or you know, anything like that.

Sadie Simpson: 22:14

All right, let's get into some examples of some things that people may say during the holidays related to things like bodies, and food, and dieting, and all of that. So here's the first one, you ready?

Naomi Katz: 22:29

I'm ready.

Sadie Simpson: 22:30

I feel like I have to use like a voice- so like you have- to have- to really-

Naomi Katz: 22:32

Do a voice. Do it.

Sadie Simpson: 22:37

I ate too much.

Naomi Katz: 22:39

A classic

Sadie Simpson: 22:40

A classic. So I think with deflect in this situation, it's really just change the subject and move on. And you'll notice a theme as we go through these examples, deflect is basically change the subject and move on. And there may be some different nuance-y little tidbits, and tips, and things you can try for different situations. But for this one specifically, just, let's just talk about something different- just completely change the subject.

Naomi Katz: 23:09

Yeah, there are a few, like deflect techniques that we talk about. And like yeah, changing the subject is like probably the easiest one. There's also just walking away--is an- is an option for deflect. There are some more

Sadie Simpson: 23:20

Yeah. nuanced ones, like non sequitur compliments, where like, if somebody- that really applies best if somebody is complaining about their like personal appearance, sort of. Like it's, you know, that thing of when people say, oh, I've gained so much weight, or something like that, and you want to- you know, because when most people say that, what they're really saying is, I feel insecure, I need to be reassured, something like that. And so you want to be able to give them some amount of that without engaging in the narrative that weight gain is a bad thing. And so a non sequitur compliment is like you compliment- you compliment something that has nothing to do with their bodies. Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 24:07

That doesn't- I don't think that really applies much to any of the things that we're going to be working through today. So today- for today, most of the deflect options are change the subject or walk away.

Sadie Simpson: 24:20

Yes. Always a good go to.

Naomi Katz: 24:22

Yeah. So I would say the educate version here might involve asking some questions about what they mean by too much. You know, like, you could start with sort of like a statement of fact- like, hmm, too much means different things to different people. So like, what are you feeling right now? Is it physical discomfort? Is it- you know, are you saying like you feel guilty about having- about how much you ate? And then you can either suggest some solutions for physical discomfort if that's the issue, or you can move move into the engage part if it turns out that it's more of like a guilt type of a situation.

Sadie Simpson: 25:07

Yeah, well, I think in this situation, a way to engage in a bigger conversation, it can be really helpful to reframe this mindset from a place of guilt, or shame, or of, quote unquote, overeating, to a place of enjoying food and finding comfort and satisfaction in eating, especially in the holidays. Like this is the notorious time for comfort type foods and special foods we might not get to eat during the year because, you know, we're not around our aunt who makes her famous macaroni and cheese, and we go, you only get to eat it once a year or something like that. And this is a great way to kind of engage in a little bit of a deeper conversation about satisfaction, and about enjoyment, and being able to, you know, be in a place with our family and friends, and not feeling bad for going for seconds or having extra servings because the food tastes good, because we love it, if it makes us either feel good, in like a comforting sense, or it just, it literally just tastes good.

Naomi Katz: 26:15

You can incorporate an I statement into that.

Sadie Simpson: 26:18

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 26:18

Like it can be something along the lines of, you know, I've been practicing intuitive eating, and I've realized that satisfaction, and pleasure, and enjoyment are just really important parts of eating experiences. And like, I'm just so much happier with my relationship to food now that I have like, let go of those rules and guilt around food.

Sadie Simpson: 26:44

Yeah, I love that. And also, just another quick reminder, our bonus episode in The Satisfaction Space is all about holiday food guilt. So if this is something that you have dealt with, or you anticipate dealing with this at a family holiday gathering, definitely check that out.

Naomi Katz: 27:02

Yeah, for sure.

Sadie Simpson: 27:03

So here's one that I hear all the time in various situations- good thing I worked out this morning, or, I'm going to have to work this off later- when referring to exercise and eating a big holiday meal.

Naomi Katz: 27:22

Another classic.

Sadie Simpson: 27:25

For deflect, I'm not even gonna lie, this is where personally I have a tendency to deflect. And I think part of this is because it is really common for folks to feel like they have to confess their exercise to me. Yes. And because I work in fitness, people look to me pretty regularly to get validation, or for somebody to tell them, great job, you did it, you ran a 5k, now go enjoy that pie without guilt, or something like that. Because of the nature of my work. Or on the flip side, I get a lot of the, oh, I've been bad because I ate all of this food and I haven't worked out yet. So what's kind of interesting here, in a work environment, I will definitely shift into an educate or engage mode when this comes up in conversation with a personal training client, in a group fitness class. And it's kind of ironic that I don't really do this as much in a family or in a social situation. Because I feel like I have a lot of practice here. I feel really confident in having this conversation. And I also wouldn't say that deflecting or changing the subject when somebody is in a social situation feels like they have to confess that they did or did not exercise- I don't think that is passive. I think it's pretty intentional. Because one of the things that I really, really, really make a point to do is to avoid acknowledging good or bad behavior, because I refuse to validate the norm that exercise is punishment for eating. So in a social situation, when somebody says to me, good thing I did that turkey trot this morning, or something like that, you know, they're serving themselves some stuffing, my response is usually something like, okay, and then I'll just move on. I usually do not engage in that type of a situation.

Naomi Katz: 29:32

Yeah. Oh my gosh, I love that. I love that you do that. You land on deflect for this in your personal time. Because, first of all, not everything deserves a response.

Sadie Simpson: 29:44

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 29:44

For one, like we said. And this is definitely one of those things. But also like, yes, you're totally right. Like not responding to this, deflecting these things, is absolutely an intentional way not to validate this as a norm. I think that people expect certain responses when they say certain things. Like, much like we're role playing this stuff, I feel like other people have different scripts in their heads about how those conversations are supposed to go- not that they roleplay them, but like, cultural norms sort of write the script in that way. And so when you go off script, essentially, by not giving them the response they expect, I think it- like it's notable.

Sadie Simpson: 30:27

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 30:28

People notice that.

Sadie Simpson: 30:29

They do, they really do.

Naomi Katz: 30:30

And I just want to say, like, it is also just fine to not want to be doing your job when you're off duty too. Like, if your job is to engage or educate around these norms, it totally makes sense to like maybe not want to do that kind of heavy lifting in your time off.

Sadie Simpson: 30:51

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 30:52

That's totally a thing for me. I hear stuff sometimes in my, you know, off time. Like I said, my family is pretty good about not making those comments, and most of my friends are too, but like, an acquaintance sometimes will say a thing in a place where I am that like, you know, makes me like sit up at attention basically. And like, I have to be like, I do not need to- especially when it's not like out- like blatantly harmful, especially to anybody in the room, and stuff like that- like, if it's just sort of like a misconception, or especially if it's like directed at them. There's, there's times when I feel like I can just be like, I don't need to do my job right now.

Sadie Simpson: 31:42

Yep.

Naomi Katz: 31:43

Like I can just be a person in this room and pretend this isn't happening.

Sadie Simpson: 31:47

And you know, where I might shift into educate, and or engage is when somebody directly asks me about my work, or what I've been up to. And obviously, we post a lot about the podcast on social media, we talk a lot about our programs and services that we offer. And a lot of my family members follow me on social media, some of them listen to this podcast. So sometimes somebody will say something to me, like, oh, I saw your post about this thing, or I listened to your episode about this other thing, and they will engage me in a deeper conversation about it. And when that happens, I'll tend to kind of shift a little bit more into either educate or engage. Or another example, where I might choose to educate or engage here is when somebody might make a comment of, gotta go work off this turkey, and then somebody else in the room will look at me and repeat something that maybe we've said on the podcast, or on social media, and be like, well, Sadie says I can eat this pumpkin pie without guilt, and I'm also not going to exercise today, and instead, I'm just gonna go home and lay on the couch and watch TV, because they said so on the Satisfaction Factor podcast, that- that's what I'm doing. And whenever somebody- and situations kind of like that, you know, they happen from time to time- and whenever somebody says something like that, I will acknowledge and affirm and validate what they've said, and kind of give them, you know, a thumbs up or some sort of validation there.

Naomi Katz: 33:28

Totally. I have also had that experience, and I kind of do the same, where I- like, I affirm, I validate, I, you know, show appreciation for the fact that they're listening. But it totally makes sense that that's a different experience of educating or engaging in your off time, because, like, kind of people are essentially engaging in the conversation around you anyway. So it's not the same as like trying to respond to an offhanded comment. They're, like, ready for the conversations, so like, it's a little bit less like heavy lifting. Plus, it's more like they're having the conversation and you're just validating and affirming it.

Sadie Simpson: 34:09

Yes, for sure.

Naomi Katz: 34:11

For those of you listening to this who maybe aren't intuitive eating or fitness professionals, though, I would say like maybe an educate- or an educate type of response to something like this might be something along the lines of, you know, you actually don't need to like earn your food or burn off your food when you eat it, like food is just nourishment, and neutral, and like you're allowed to enjoy it without having to pay for it later. And an engage thing might be something along the lines of, you know, I've noticed that that I really enjoy both food and movement more when I'm not feeling like they have to be transactional with one another.

Sadie Simpson: 34:54

Ooh. I like that response. Even for myself, I'm gonna use it.

Naomi Katz: 34:59

And again, like the thing with the- the engage thing there is like you open the door with this I- by sharing your own experience. And then you're available for the conversation and the questions that might come afterwards. Educate- kind of the same thing, where you make a more general statement about the principle of the thing, or data if there is data, or something like that, and then you're available to, like, expand on it, if there's questions or things like that.

Sadie Simpson: 35:29

Yeah. Next one. Oh, we're gonna start keto in January, or fill in the blank with whatever else- whole 30- whatever the newest, hottest thing is. So for deflect, great opportunity to ignore, change the subject, and walk away. For educate, there is an excellent Maintenance Phase episode all about the keto diet. So if someone's specifically talking about keto, that is a great recommendation to share with folks. But you know, it may not be specifically the keto diet, it may be some other thing that somebody says they're going to do in January or after the new year. And that's a great opportunity, just share some basic, quick facts, like that 95% of all diets fail.

Naomi Katz: 36:18

That the keto diet was designed for epileptic children, and even then it's rarely used because people can't stick to it.

Sadie Simpson: 36:25

Yes, exactly.

Naomi Katz: 36:27

There's so much data. Like, it's like we were talking about before, that like, sometimes educate is just like a general statement, but like, sometimes it's an opportunity to share data. There's so much data about the failure rate of diets, the failure rate of new year's resolutions, pick a statistic.

Sadie Simpson: 36:45

Yeah. And then for engage, that's a great opportunity to ask them open ended follow up questions. So if it is maybe someone who tries the new fad diet every year, maybe just a quick, like, so what happened last year when you tried this in January? And their response will probably be something along the lines of, well, it worked for a month, and then I stopped doing it, and then it stopped working, which would be a great time to also ask some additional follow up open ended questions of, what do you expect to be different this year when you try it versus last year?

Naomi Katz: 37:23

Yeah. And I think it's one of those things where you can really kind of tie in the educate to that, too. So for instance, if you- if the educate is something along the lines of like, you know, like 95 to 98% of diets fail. Like, you can also tie in the fact that like, it's human nature, like we all think we're going to be in that two to 5% that succeeds, but like, that's not math. So like, we can't all be in that two to 5%. And so, you know, that might be something to kind of try and like draw out through that educate and engage situation, too. You can also share some I statements here about like, you know, I gotta say, like, I've never had a New Year's diet stick, have you? You know?

Sadie Simpson: 38:13

They'll probably be like, nope.

Naomi Katz: 38:14

Right. Exactly.

Sadie Simpson: 38:16

Yes. All right. Here's another one. I've been saving up my calories for the big meal, or I'm going to enjoy this last big meal because my diet starts tomorrow, or Monday, or on January 1, or whenever.

Naomi Katz: 38:32

Yeah. These are such classic things. Like I love this list. Like literally every time you read a new one, I want to be like, ugh classic. So like, let's just stipulate that for all of these.

Sadie Simpson: 38:47

You know, it's kind of sad, though, that this is such a classic thing that whenever people are listening to this, they're like, yep, heard that one before. Yep, I know that one all too well. Like these are all so familiar to all of us.

Naomi Katz: 39:02

Yeah, absolutely. Deflect- this is a great opportunity to ignore, change the subject, or walk away.

Sadie Simpson: 39:11

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 39:13

Educate, for this, would be a great opportunity to talk about the restrict binge cycle, which we have talked about numerous times on the podcast- about how, basically, like, the more we restrict, the more we're going to feel out of control around food, and which will just lead us to restricting more, which always just leads us to binging more, and how that that cycle works. And, you know, maybe you can introduce that with a question, or maybe the transition into engage comes from a question. Like maybe you can ask here, like, you know, when somebody says one of these things to you, maybe you can answer with like, huh, how many times do you think you've told yourself that, because, you know, my understanding is that restriction kind of always leads to this feeling of being out of control around food, and that doesn't seem like the greatest thing in the world, or, you know, something like that. And then engage, again, you know, leading with that I statement- I've actually found that I'm much more comfortable if I just eat to satisfaction and fullness all the time, instead of going back and forth between restriction and binging. Or maybe something like, I'm sorry you feel like you can't just enjoy this meal without making up for it later, wouldn't it be more enjoyable if there weren't conditions on it? Leaving that door open for responses and engagement afterwards.

Sadie Simpson: 40:38

Okay, here's the next one. You've lost weight, or you've gained weight.

Naomi Katz: 40:44

Always such a fun thing to hear. So, you know, deflect for this, you always

Sadie Simpson: 40:47

Yes. have the ignore, change the subject, walk away options. But then one kind of version of deflecting that we haven't talked about yet in this episode that we did talk about way back in that older episode, is being a little snarky about your response to shut it down. Or it's totally fine to even be fully angry about a response here. Because, I mean, this is literally somebody commenting on your body without your consent. So anger is fully an acceptable response to that. But if you're going to be snarky, if that suits you, because everything is always about choosing a response that feels comfortable and authentic to you, but if you're a person who gets a little snarky, like I am sometimes, you know, maybe the response here is something like, oh, I hadn't noticed or, you know, walking away, or like, yeah, I look awesome. For- especially for the gained weight one. The lost weight one is a little more complicated, because there's a lot of like diet culture structures upheld in that. So I feel like you've lost weight is a great- you know, I hadn't noticed and walking away totally works, or, and this is the thing that comes up a lot of times, especially if you have lost weight, but it's because you haven't been feeling well, you've been stressed, like all those- all the reasons that a lot of people lose weight that are not healthy, sometimes just straight up saying that, like, yeah, I've been really sick and walking away, can be like- Yep.

Naomi Katz: 42:26

Just shut that down really quickly. For gained weight, some response along the lines of like, yeah, and I look awesome, would be a great way to like snarkily shut down and deflect that, you know.

Sadie Simpson: 42:39

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 42:40

But again, just whatever feels good for you. For educate, you know, this is an opportunity to- there's like a couple different versions of educating we can do. Maybe we can do something like, well, you know, bodies are supposed to change over our lives, so that's normal. And just, you know, make the education about the fact that, you know, bodies are not supposed to be the same all the time. Or we can make the education a little bit more about diet culture, and its structures, and why these comments are harmful. And we can say something like, you know, it's kind of harmful to comment on people's bodies. Like, even if you think it's a compliment, it perpetuates unrealistic beauty ideals, and, and it holds a lot of power structures that are like, very problematic. And then, especially if you are talking to somebody who you know, and who you know doesn't have values that align with diet culture and its power structures, you can even say something like, you know, it holds a lot of power structures that are very problematic, and that, like, I know you don't actually agree with. And then you can, like, offer some resources for learning more about the roots of diet culture and stuff like that. And then engage- again, starting with I statements, right? I'm working on body acceptance or body neutrality, so I'd really appreciate it if you could not make comments on my body from now on. Simple, to the point, states the boundary, and also leaving the door open for questions about that if need be, or reinforcement of the boundary later. Or you can even go deeper with, you know, I'm learning a lot about diet culture and beauty standards, and I've come to realize that they don't align with my values. I'm working on divesting from those structures, and I'm working on body acceptance and neutrality. We can talk about that if you'd like but I'd really appreciate it if you didn't make comments about my body from now on. So just, you know, different levels of information that we're giving people about ourselves, about why we're doing what we're doing, and what you choose to- how much information you choose to give people is totally going to depend on your comfort level, what you know about them and their values, and stuff like that. Like, bodies are supposed to change over our lives, so that's normal is like a pretty like politically neutral statement. Whereas getting into the conversation about, you know, power structures and stuff like that- your- your Republican uncle might not be the best person to have that conversation with.

Sadie Simpson: 45:15

Oh my gosh, yeah, great point, kind of reading the room or knowing your audience and who you're talking to. Next one - so and so has really let themselves go, or, so and so looks really great.

Naomi Katz: 45:35

Yeah. So what's interesting about this one- first of all, it happens all the time. And I want to be really clear that this one applies- like, people have this conversation about celebrities a lot, and they think it's neutral. Where like, you know, you're just- you're hanging out with your family, and you're watching a movie, and it's like, oh, look at how- like how much weight so and so has put on, or like, look at how great so and so looks for their age, or, you know, something like that. Like we- we treat conversations about celebrity bodies very differently than like- and- but it sets the tone. And so this is the kind of thing where like, yes, people will absolutely- people might say this about people you actually know, who might be in the room, or something like that, but they also might- this also might come up in the context of like celebrity gossip or something. And like it's equally harmful either way, and might be something you want to set a boundary about or like prepare for, even there. I also just want to note that like, the thing about this one is that the responses are going to be really, really similar to what- how you would respond to comments about your own weight loss or weight gain, just turned kind of outward instead of inward. So having said that, deflect- ignore, change the subject, walk away, employ some snark or anger if need be. I am a big fan of like, we could just not talk about people's bodies, like, and then walking away.

Sadie Simpson: 47:19

Yes, I like it.

Naomi Katz: 47:21

Educate would basically be the same as the last one- you know, comments about bodies are harmful, bodies are supposed to change over our lives, it's normal- like either one of those. It's- you're basically educating about the same thing. And engage, you know, maybe something like, you know, I have found that being less judgmental about other people's bodies has really helped me be more accepting of my own body, might be a good place to start an engaged conversation here. Or, you know, going back to something like the comments that we just mentioned about comments about our own bodies- you know, I'm working on body acceptance and neutrality, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't make comments about other people's bodies around me. Or like that whole long one about diet culture and beauty- like that- and ending it with, I'd appreciate it if you didn't make comments about other people's bodies around me from now.

Sadie Simpson: 48:19

I like that. I think it's very to the point, but it really causes people to start thinking about what they say before they say it out loud. So yes.

Naomi Katz: 48:28

Yeah, absolutely. Which is ultimately the goal of all of this stuff, right.

Sadie Simpson: 48:36

All right, last one, how can you still be hungry? Or are you going to actually eat all of that?

Naomi Katz: 48:43

Yeah, feel free to deflect by ignoring, changing the subject, walking away, or offering up some snark or anger here.

Sadie Simpson: 48:55

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 48:56

I think the educate response here would be something along the lines of, bodies need different amounts of food to be comfortably full and mentally satisfied, there's no right portion size for everyone- you know, something along those lines. And then I think the engage, again, would be an I statement. You know, I trust my body to know what, when and how much to eat, diets really got in the way of that for a while, but now I know what I need. Or like a version of the body stuff that we just talked about- so something like, I'm working on reconnecting with my body and needs, and on divesting from diets, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't make comments about my food choices.

Sadie Simpson: 49:40

Yeah. And I think the big thing to remember with all of these examples that we've talked about, and this deflect, educate, engage framework, is that it can be totally customizable to whatever makes you feel comfortable. And that might vary depending on what the comment is, what the context is, your relationship with the other person. There's a lot of variables here. So even though we've given this template, or this framework, this is not the be all end all of how to respond to food and body comments, especially during the holidays. Hearing us talk through some of these examples was helpful. I know it was really helpful for me.

Naomi Katz: 50:22

Yeah, me, too.

Sadie Simpson: 50:23

Yeah. And if you're interested in having a place to work through these scenarios, or other situations that you're anticipating going into the holiday season, we would love to see you in The Satisfaction Space. Having brave conversations about real life situations is a big part of what this community is all about.

Naomi Katz: 50:43

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we're already seeing our members notice that having a place to come and like, share about stuff that they're dealing with is, is really helpful for them. And so come sign up and share your your holiday frustrations with us.

Sadie Simpson: 51:03

And one other quick thing, if you are finding yourself having more of these education based conversations with friends or family members, and you don't want to be the one to facilitate the entire learning of someone's disengaging from diet culture, I'm going to be starting a brand new Intro to Intuitive Eating six week program in January. It's all virtual. We're gonna meet on Thursday nights at 6pm, so it's after work hours for folks who live on the east coast. So if you or anyone you know are looking to do some entry level learning about what Intuitive Eating is, and how you could take this framework and begin to apply it to your lives, we'll put a link in the show notes where you can get more information about that.

Naomi Katz: 51:53

Yeah, that's gonna be a great place to start if there are people in your life who maybe want to learn a little bit more about what you're doing, or might want to dip a toe in themselves, or you know, something like that- like that's- that's going to be a great program.

Sadie Simpson: 52:11

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 52:11

So all that being said, Happy Thanksgiving, happy holiday season, we hope that you are feeling a little bit more prepared to go into all of that. So Sadie, what's satisfying for you right now?

Sadie Simpson: 52:23

I am satisfied by going into this next holiday week, the week of Thanksgiving, I'm going to take a couple of days off from like all of the various jobs and things that I have going on and legitimately just have like, I don't know what, like four or five days of not doing much anything. And I'm really excited about that. It's been pretty busy the last couple of months this fall. My work schedule has changed, Trey's work schedule has changed. So having a little bit of downtime, very satisfied by the idea of that happening next week.

Naomi Katz: 53:06

Yeah, that sounds awesome. Like everybody gets to the point of like around this time of year, you start feeling like you really need that break. But I also know that you have been unbelievably busy. So I am sure you need that break.

Sadie Simpson: 53:24

Yes, we are ready. So what is satisfying for you right now?

Naomi Katz: 53:30

I am very satisfied by the fact that I did something this week for my old like something proactive to help me engage in self care a little bit better. And this is something that I struggle with doing sometimes. But I joined Planet Fitness the one so there's one that is literally five minutes from my house. Now we've talked about this I have a full gym in my basement. I also take a class at all bodies movement and wellness once a week and that's great. But I have a really really really hard time using the gym in my basement in the cooler months. i It is friggin cold down there and also you know, it gets dark early. So sometimes by the time I get down there it is both dark and cold in my basement and it's just really hard to get down there. And so I just was like, you know, is this the gym that I would want to go to forever? No. Can Is it like a really cheap and like, close by option to get me through the winter and like help me add into my movement routine, which always helps my mental health especially because I do have issues with seasonal depression and stuff like that. Like yes, this was a really good proactive move. For me, so I'm feeling very satisfied about the fact that I took this step for myself.

Sadie Simpson: 55:04

Yay. Oh my gosh, that is awesome. I'm really glad to hear that you sort of took these steps ahead of time knowing what was coming. And being like, hey, there is the solution, or at least, you know, a semi good option here for me, and we're going to try it out and see how it works. I love that. Yeah,

Naomi Katz: 55:26

I'm pretty psyched about it. That's cool.

Sadie Simpson: 55:28

So if you enjoyed this episode, tell us about it. You can find us on Instagram. We are at satisfaction factor pod. And we love reading your comments and getting DMS, from you about your thoughts on what we're talking about on the podcast. And you can also leave us ratings and reviews on both Apple podcasts, and Spotify. We read all of these reviews, we see them and this helps boost us up in the podcast rankings, which is always very helpful.

Naomi Katz: 55:58

Yeah, so we definitely appreciate that. And that's it for us this week. Catch you next time.