#11 - Intuitive Eating Deep Dive: Feel Your Fullness

This week, Naomi & Sadie do a deep dive into Intuitive Eating Principle #6 - Feel Your Fullness. This principle can be tricky, because it's easy to turn it back into a diet, or to focus on fullness as a means of portion control. So, in this episode, instead of focusing on fullness as a sign that we've eaten too much, or as something we should avoid, we look at fullness as something we should be actually trying to feel, as a sign that we've eaten enough. We also talk about: how feeling fullness and honoring our hunger can work together, why a focus on feeling fullness isn't necessarily something that everyone needs to do, why arbitrary advice about fullness doesn't work, and how our feelings about fatness can have a big impact on our feelings about fullness. 

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And enrollment is officially open for the 2022 cohort of Nourish & Bloom, Naomi's 40-week group Intuitive Eating workshop for free-thinking grown-ups who want to reject diet culture & cultivate resilience! You can get all the details, including pricing & the full curriculum, at  www.happyshapes.co/nourishandbloom!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @thesadiesimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

For this episode's transcript, visit: www.satisfactionfactorpod.com

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You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @sadiemsimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

Transcript

Naomi Katz: 0:03

Welcome to Satisfaction Factor, the podcast where we explore how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. Hey, y'all. Welcome back to Satisfaction Factor. I'm Naomi Katz, an Intuitive Eating, body image, and self trust coach providing anti diet support to free thinking grownups who want to reclaim their autonomy and consent from diet culture.

Sadie Simpson: 0:34

I'm Sadie Simpson, an anti diet group fitness instructor and Intuitive Eating counselor, and I help other fitness professionals disengage from diet culture, so they can improve program enrollment, engagement, impact, and retention without shame and manipulation.

Naomi Katz: 0:52

So here we are in episode six of our Intuitive Eating Deep Dive series. And so that means we're going to be talking about feeling your fullness. But before we dive into that, just a heads up that Nourish & Bloom enrollment is still open. Nourish & Bloom is a 40 week workshop based on the Intuitive Eating framework. Together, we will use this framework to explore topics related to Intuitive Eating, the system of diet culture, cultivating autonomy, building body respect, and really building the skills that we need to be resilient to the diet culture that's all around us. Within the workshop, we spend four weeks on each of the 10 Intuitive Eating principles, so we really sort of go deep into the nuances of them. You get 40 weekly emails, 10 group Q&A and coaching calls, and an optional Voxer messaging add on, if you want some additional one to one support during the course of the workshop. This year's cohort starts on January 3, 2022, which is the first Monday in January. And it's really for people who are brand new to Intuitive Eating and want to learn in a supportive environment. And it's also for people who are somewhat familiar with Intuitive Eating- so maybe you've read the book, or you've done the workbook, or like listened to this podcast series, or something like that- but you'd really like a container to dig deeper into how to apply the principles to your own life. Our first group was nice and small, and so I'm capping this year at 15 people because I really enjoyed that small group environment, and so did the folks in that group. We're priced for accessibility here, and in order to increase that accessibility, we've got two scholarship spots for folks holding marginalized identities or in financial need. There's no questions asked, you just have to let me know you want to claim one of the spots. You can get all the details, including the full curriculum, and pricing, and the link to enroll at happyshapes.co/nourishandbloom. This week, we are covering Intuitive Eating principle number six, feel your fullness. This principle is kind of tricky, I feel like, because it's the easiest one to turn into a diet. Well, it might- maybe the- maybe gentle nutrition is as easy, but it's definitely these two, I think, are the trickiest in terms of not turning them into a diet.

Sadie Simpson: 3:21

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 3:22

Right? Yeah. So I find, at least, when I'm working on this principle, that it's really helpful to try and frame this work around how to avoid the diet mindset when dealing with the concept of fullness.

Sadie Simpson: 3:38

Ooh. I like that.

Naomi Katz: 3:39

Yeah? Does that sound- does that- is that sort of how you tend to approach this too?

Sadie Simpson: 3:43

I think it probably is, but I've never really thought about it like in those exact terms. But yes.

Naomi Katz: 3:49

That makes sense. Sure. So just to sort of clarify- there is a- like a diet culture truism, I guess you would call it that- you know, the best thing to do is to eat to 80% fullness. And that is not what we're talking about here. That's super arbitrary. It doesn't mean anything- like what even is 80% full. And yeah, we'll get definitely into more of why that's such a flawed concept a little bit later. But just to say that is not what this is. This is also not portion control. So I think that it's really, really easy when we think about, you know, feeling our fullness, that we're trying to hit some arbitrary correct portion amount, and to like control how much food we're eating. That's not what we're doing here. That's for sure. This is also not about perfection. Perfectionism is nonsense in all its forms, and we'll definitely get into more of this later, but there is no such thing as like a perfect point of fullness. And so this isn't about finding that either. The last thing to note about this is- you know, we say this all the time- these principles aren't steps, they don't have to go in order. But like we mentioned last week, this used to be principle five, and

Sadie Simpson: 5:14

Mm hmm. satisfaction used to be principle six. And really, the switch helps us to understand that fullness is about more than the physical. So we're looking for a fullness that is both physically comfortable, and mentally satisfying. If we are purely focusing on physical fullness, we're kind of a lot more likely to turn this principle into a diet.

Naomi Katz: 5:41

I really like to think of the goal of this principle as not so much making sure that we never eat too much, but always making sure that we're eating enough. So like, where fullness is actually a goal- if that makes sense- as opposed to like making sure that you're not overly full. It's like, how often am I actually getting full?

Sadie Simpson: 6:04

Oh, yeah. I love this reframe, too, because we always think about fullness as a negative thing. And I think that kind of switching this- like you just said- like, are we eating enough, is a really great way to reframe fullness as a positive thing. Like it's not a negative thing. It's just a function of eating. And we'll get into that a lot more throughout the rest of this episode. But I really like that.

Naomi Katz: 6:32

We're so busy, most of the time, framing fullness as this thing that we want to avoid. And it's just like, no, fullness is something that we actually do want to be experiencing.

Sadie Simpson: 6:42

Yeah, for sure. And I think that it's also important to point out that everybody doesn't have to focus on the actual work of tuning into their fullness sensations- which is some some of the things that we do in this principle, and, again, we'll talk about later- but that's not necessarily something that everybody has to do. So if you're not routinely eating to the point of discomfort- and we'll dig deeper into what discomfort actually even means- but it's worth asking what you're hoping to accomplish by focusing specifically on fullness cues. Because, again, this is where we can easily turn this principle into a way of dieting or to restricting. Sometimes we use this principle, and use these fullness cues, to make sure we're eating enough- are we always eating to the point of feeling fullness, instead of just eating to prevent hunger or to stave off hunger. So the goal should basically always be to eat your version of being comfortable or being satisfied. And I think it's also important to recognize that may vary from day to day, or from meal to meal, or whatever. So this is also a situational thing. So maybe we are getting ready to eat a meal, and we just need a little snack to hold us over so we're not hangry when we get to that meal. I like to think about that with kids, too, because kids are notorious for snacking, and they always want a freakin snack- like all the time, especially right before a meal, right before dinner, they're whining for a snack. And that's where the whole naggy mom thing comes in- like, you'll ruin your dinner if you eat a snack before dinner, and all of that sort of stuff. But it is a perfect example. Because if we give our kids a small snack to kind of hold them off until it's time to eat a bigger meal, it's the same thing- like we can do that for ourselves, to give ourselves a little snack to hold us over until we eat a fuller meal where we do have the opportunity to sit down and experience like true meal fullness. But otherwise, like unless we're anticipating maybe like eating a big meal pretty shortly pretty soon thereafter, like why would we not want to eat to fullness in most situations? And I think that that leads us to an important thing to discuss, and another way that we can use this principle, and that's to examine our feelings about fullness and our feelings about fatness. Because we often associate these two things together.

Naomi Katz: 9:27

Yeah, that's such an important thing to talk about in this principle. But like you're totally right, like if you're not- like obviously yeah, if you're going to sit down for a meal, then like okay, maybe you don't have to eat all the way to fullness before the meal- but like other than that, there's really no reason that we should ever not be eating to fullness.

Sadie Simpson: 9:47

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 9:48

So one of the key ways that we make sure that this principle doesn't sort of become diet culture's version of fullness is by kind of intentionally prioritizing a few very non diet culture things. The first of those things is hunger. So the problem with the diet culture concept of eating to 80% fullness that I mentioned a little bit ago, is that it means that you're always at least a little bit hungry. And this is sort of what we just talked about before- like, unless you're trying to control your portions, and therefore your body size, like there's really no reason why we shouldn't be eating all the way to 0% hunger. Like that 80% fullness concept means that we are still 20% hungry. And there's no reason not to be 0% hungry when we're done eating. And that really sort of leads into a couple things that- that are worth mentioning, which is that the absence of hunger is not the same as fullness. So like, just because you've quieted your hunger cues, does not mean that you're full. It just means that you're not actively hungry anymore. Feeling fullness cues is a whole different thing than not feeling hunger cues. And so that's an important distinction to make. This is essentially the difference between managing hunger and honoring hunger that we talked about in our honor your hunger episode. So if we prioritize the actual honoring of our hunger- like not just the managing of it- then we can sort of see fullness cues as a way of telling us that we've eaten enough to honor our hunger. Feeling fullness cues doesn't mean we've eaten too much. Feeling physical fullness tells us that we've eaten enough. Like I feel like we're gonna say this in varying ways throughout this entire episode, like over and over again, but I think that's because it's such an important point to this, and it's something that is so foreign when we talk about fullness, so like it bears repeating as the framing of this. The second very non diet culture thing that we can prioritize when working through this principle, so that we can sort of avoid making it dieting, is satisfaction. So physical fullness is not the only part of fullness that matters. Like we also need to feel mentally satisfied. Satisfaction does contribute to our ability to feel physically full. I think a great example of that is like, okay, you want ice cream. But instead you eat an apple, and then maybe grapes, and then maybe some dark chocolate. And then eventually you eat the ice cream anyway, and probably like a whole lot of it, to the point of discomfort. So chances are, you probably hit physical fullness before you even got to the ice cream. So if that's the case, like what if you had just eaten the ice cream in the first place? Like then you would have been satisfied, and you probably wouldn't have been chasing that satisfaction, so you might have been able to feel your fullness and stop before you got to discomfort. It helps us to actually be satisfied. The other thing is that satisfaction really helps us to tune into our internal compass for what is enough, like rather than always going by external things like portion size, or diet rules, or whatever. We talked last week a little bit about the concept of sensory specific satiety and how it usually takes like only a couple of minutes to kick in when you're eating a single food. But when you're eating a variety of foods together, like you would at a meal, for instance, the timing of sensory specific satiety tends to correlate with the onset of physical fullness cues. So what that means is that if we're eating a meal, and we have not noticed that our satisfaction or our pleasure has started to diminish at all, that may be an indication that we're not physically full yet. And that we should- we might need to keep eating, even if we have a narrative in our heads about when we should- like quote unquote, should- stop eating. And then the last very non diet culture thing to keep in mind here is personal experience. So again, like Sadie mentioned earlier, like not everyone really needs to be doing work on honing their fullness cues. This isn't a problem for everyone. So it's worth coming into this work asking yourself, like if you're not eating to the point of discomfort on a regular basis, then what is the goal of doing this work? If you are eating to the point of discomfort, does that bother you? Because things are only a problem if you see them as a problem. And so if you're good, maybe this isn't for you anyway. And then the last thing to really notice is that like, sometimes we think we need to do this specific work on fullness because, in the past, we do have a history of eating to discomfort. It's very much worth checking in with ourselves, before we start doing this fullness work now, at whether that's changed at all, since you started doing work on things like honoring your hunger and making peace with food. You might find that, while the discomfort was something you were dealing with before, your behavior has actually shifted a little bit since you started taking care of those other things, and maybe this is no longer something that needs to be prioritized for you. So you know, just sort of looking at your own life and seeing how that's playing out.

Sadie Simpson: 15:55

Now that I'm thinking about it, whenever I am working one on one with somebody through the Intuitive Eating framework, we very rarely spend a lot of time on this principle. Because once you've done a lot of the work, like you just said, with honoring your hunger and making peace with food, the feel your fullness principle- sometimes it's kind of an afterthought, to be honest. Like we'll discuss it, and like it's- it's there, it's a thing. But there's often not a whole whole lot of work that is done here. And I'm just now kind of recognizing that after hearing you say this.

Naomi Katz: 16:35

Yeah, I totally agree. I find overall- this one, the emotional eating one, and the gentle nutrition one- most of these things kind of sort themselves out when you when you deal with the other stuff.

Sadie Simpson: 16:52

Which is weird to think about, because often people come to us with the assumption that emotional eating is the problem, or eating past fullness is the problem. But it tends to be that, when you do all this other work on all these other areas of Intuitive Eating, these so called problems kind of resolve themselves.

Naomi Katz: 17:17

Yeah, it's so interesting-

Sadie Simpson: 17:18

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 17:19

-to see how that stuff plays out. For sure. I think, if anything, one of the things

Sadie Simpson: 17:20

Yes. that I see is that, you know, we've been working together- we've done hunger, we've done make peace with food, like we've done all of that- and they're like, okay, I still want to work on fullness. And so we'll start working on it, and like, we'll realize that what's actually going on is that there's more hunger stuff to work on- that like they aren't as fully honoring their hunger as maybe they could be. And that makes sense. Like a lot of times you have to return to other principles in order to like fully integrate them. And so it's interesting how often, when I do have somebody who wants to work on fullness, it actually ends up being work on something else. Yes, for sure. So having said all that, let's kind of talk about some of the actual physical sensations of fullness. And just like with hunger, it's pretty common to be disconnected from the physical sensations of fullness after a lifetime of dieting. And it's common when we're dieting to oscillate or go back and forth between never letting ourselves actually reach fullness- because of one of these arbitrary rules like eating to 80% full or whatever- and then swinging all the way to the opposite end of the spectrum, where we're eating as much as we can to get to this point of discomfort. And it's possible that we're not really even familiar with what it feels like to be comfortably full anymore. So that's why I think it'll be important to kind of talk through some of these common physical sensations of fullness. Because again, like with dieting and stuff, it's hard to remember what it feels like to be full, or to like intentionally kind of pay attention to it a little bit.

Naomi Katz: 19:09

Yeah, like, maybe you don't know.

Sadie Simpson: 19:11

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 19:11

And that's totally fine.

Sadie Simpson: 19:13

Yes. So physically, like we can feel fullness in the stomach. And maybe it's not the most useful description, but this can kind of range from subtle fullness to uncomfortable fullness. And often it comes with a slight distension of the stomach. And sometimes you can feel heavy, or bloated, and that sort of thing, too.

Naomi Katz: 19:34

Can I mention something here that I think is really interesting?

Sadie Simpson: 19:37

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 19:38

That- just- that, like, distension of the stomach thing, I think, is something that people struggle with a lot. Like I think there's this sense of like, you're never supposed to- like your stomach isn't supposed to be distended after you eat food, and that if it is, you've eaten too much. But a slight distension of the stomach is actually a perfectly normal and common physical representation- or physical manifestation- of actual comfortable fullness. Like-

Sadie Simpson: 20:11

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 20:12

I mean, I don't want to speak for everybody, but I feel like it's rare that you've actually eaten all the way to fullness and you don't at least have a small amount of distension in your stomach. Do you feel that way too?

Sadie Simpson: 20:24

Oh, yeah. I'm glad that you pointed that out. Because I've never- other than within the context of talking about Intuitive Eating and this type of stuff- like we never talk about, physically, when you eat to the point of fullness, your stomach is physically expanding. And that's like- that is a normal thing to happen. And I feel like that should be something that we talk about. Because it's- it's normal. This is what happens.

Naomi Katz: 20:54

Yeah. Like, there's always jokes about like, you know, oh, I ate so much I had to loosen my pants, or like, you know, that concept of like a food baby or something. And it's treated as this thing that's like, oh my

Sadie Simpson: 21:03

Yeah. God, can you believe how much I ate? And it's like, but actually, that doesn't mean you ate too much. It just means you have a stomach, and it gets bigger when you fill it with food. Yes, like, that is supposed to happen.

Naomi Katz: 21:19

Exactly.

Sadie Simpson: 21:20

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 21:20

Destigmatize distension. That's my slogan for this.

Sadie Simpson: 21:26

I like it. I like it. So another physical sensation of fullness is that we may have fewer thoughts about food and fewer thoughts about eating. So we talked about this on another episode, about how thinking about food and eating was often overlooked as a sign of hunger- this is kind of the same thing, but the opposite. When we're talking about fullness- like when you're full, you'll likely find that those thoughts kind of go away. And another reason why eating to only 80% fullness isn't super helpful is that it probably leaves us still thinking about food, instead of being able to just eat and move on with our lives. Another sensation of fullness is this diminished desire to eat. So in general, when we're full, we'll want to stop eating. And there are some exceptions to this, of course. But for most of us, if we're in tune with our fullness, we'll not usually want to keep eating once we get to that point. And then we also have an increase in energy, because literally, when we're eating, we're consuming energy. So as we talked about before, calories are just units of energy. And when we don't eat enough, we're depriving ourselves of literal energy. So eating is basically like charging our battery. It's common to feel this boost of energy when we eat- that is a normal expectation of fullness. And then another thing to kind of consider too is, whenever we're eating, and we're getting to this point of fullness, we might notice that we are in a more relaxed state. We might just feel more pleasant. So it's the opposite of- your favorite word- hangry. We feel- I can't- I can't think of like a cutesy funny word for not hangry. But whatever. There's not like, full- I don't know- I was trying to think of one off the top of my head, and I couldn't. Anyway.

Naomi Katz: 23:28

We'll get back to you.

Sadie Simpson: 23:31

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 23:31

Alternatively, send us your suggestions@satisfactionfactorpod on Instagram.

Sadie Simpson: 23:37

Yeah. What's the opposite of hangry? What's a made up word for that? But anyway, our brain really does have this reward system for food. And, contrary to what diet culture tells us, this is not a sign of food addiction. It is a biological system that makes sure that we eat, and we don't die. So like all things are tied to survival- we have this reward mechanism. So basically, eating and sex are supposed to make you feel good and release chemicals that make you feel pleasant and relaxed. And then, like, when you're done, you're done for a while, and, you know, you can move on with your life from there too.

Naomi Katz: 24:19

I love that one. Because I think there's so much out there that's like, you know, oh, you ate food, and then all the pleasure centers in your brain went off, just like an addiction, and so food is addictive. And it's like, no, it keeps you alive. Like those reward systems- like it's- it's a tool of survival that it does that. And like I hate that it's- like that information is like manipulated to get us to not do the survival thing that our bodies are trying to help us do.

Sadie Simpson: 24:54

Yes. Oh my gosh, and we're recording this right before Thanksgiving- so a couple days before Thanksgiving- and I think this is another sensation of fullness that's appropriate to talk about right now, is drowsiness. So this kind of feeling of feeling just kind of tired and drowsy after we eat is another extension of that pleasant, relaxed mood, basically. Like our body is alerting us, letting us know that it is safe. And I mean, when you think about animals, they take a nap after eating. Like, I wish that was a thing in our society- that we could just eat and go take a nap instead of immediately, like, eating lunch and going back to work. Could you imagine how more relaxed and just pleasant everyone could be?

Naomi Katz: 25:45

Yeah. Like animals do it. Babies do it.

Sadie Simpson: 25:48

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 25:49

And like there are cultures that do it. Like siesta is a thing. I think we very often judge that feeling of drowsiness as like a sign of eating too much- which like we'll talk about a little more later- but- because I have to bring this up in literally every episode- like would it- would drowsiness after eating actually be a bad thing, if we didn't live in a hyper capitalist world where we're supposed to be productive all the time, especially during office hours? Like, probably not. We'd probably actually be like, sweet, I'm drowsy, let's go take a nap.

Sadie Simpson: 26:26

You know what's so funny slash so messed up- like thinking back to any intense work situation I've ever been in- it's always been a thing, where the business, or the company, organization, or whatever, always tries to kind of like bribe and manipulate the employees with food. So you're having like a big meeting about a budget or something like really important, and they're like, we're gonna have this meeting, we're going to provide lunch. So they feed you this big meal, and then expect you to be like just on it, and sharp, and like very engaged in the whole work situation. But really, like biologically, you just want to lay down and take a nap. So it's just to a whole thing.

Naomi Katz: 27:12

I'd never even thought about that. But like, yes, it's- it's that whole, like, we've created this problematic situation, and we're also going to hold you responsible for it, type of thing.

Sadie Simpson: 27:24

But we'll feed you, and it's okay, but you can't take a nap. So these feelings of fullness, they're individual. And just like with our hunger feelings, you might feel other things that aren't even on this list of things that we've talked about. But the whole point here is just to have a starting point, to begin to kind of recognize what some common fullness signal-s some fullness cues- are, in case that's something that you feel like you're not able to tap into.

Naomi Katz: 27:57

Yeah, like if you haven't felt fullness in a while, you might need a little like-

Sadie Simpson: 28:02

A refresher-

Naomi Katz: 28:02

-map. Like a map. Yeah, a refresher. So ultimately, the goal of doing this work- if we're going to do this work- is to find a comfortable and satisfying fullness that is both physical and mental. But like that's something that we each have to define for ourselves. People don't realize how variable that stuff really is. And again, this is one of the reasons why like arbitrary recommendations of like, oh, always leave two bites on your plate, or like, you know, or again, that 80% fullness thing or like- You can't make those recommendations because everybody's fullness needs are going to be different. Some people actually need to feel more physically full in order to feel mentally satisfied. That's especially true for people with a history of food scarcity- they need to feel a little more full in their bellies- like they need a little more of that physical sensation of safety and fullness, in order to mentally be able to feel satisfied. Some people need to feel less physical fullness, more often, to feel physically comfortable. That's especially true for folks with maybe digestive issues. As a personal anecdote, I have GERD- so like acid reflux- and I like definitely find that being less physically full helps to manage those symptoms. But like a really big caveat there is that that means I have to eat more often. Being a person who needs to feel less physically full in a single sitting usually means you have to eat more often through the day. Because it doesn't mean you need less food. It just means you need to eat less at a single time. I think that's a really big caveat to that one. How full physically you want to feel also might change from day to day, or like meal to meal. So some people might prefer to feel more physically full in the mornings and less full at night. I'm a person like that, again, because of my reflux stuff, where like less full at night means I sleep better. And so more full in the morning works for me. I know other people-

Sadie Simpson: 30:19

Oh my gosh. I'm so the opposite.

Naomi Katz: 30:21

I was just gonna say! I know a lot of other people who are the other way around, where like they prefer to be less full during the day, usually because of that drowsiness thing, where it's like easier for them to avoid that symptom if they're less physically full during the day. But at night, when they're just wrapping up their day, and they're cozy on the couch, and they're like getting ready for bed, they like that more physically full feeling, because it brings more of that drowsiness and relaxation into it.

Sadie Simpson: 30:50

Ooh, well, I've noticed too- I mean, even just personally- if I'm not full enough at night- so from supper, or from a nighttime snack, or whatever- I'll wake up in the middle of the night physically hungry.

Naomi Katz: 31:04

Yeah.

Sadie Simpson: 31:05

So I like to be full at night so I don't have to get out of bed. So that's just another fullness motivator for me right there.

Naomi Katz: 31:11

It's actually really funny because my opposite thing- like wanting to be less full at night- is for the exact same reason. It's because if I go to bed too full, I will also wake up in the middle of the night for like very different and uncomfortable reasons. So we're both preserving our sleep.

Sadie Simpson: 31:26

Oh my god, I love that we're having this conversation. I mean, it really goes to show that everybody is so unique, like in their fullness sensations, and things like that. And I think that's really important to recognize within Intuitive Eating, and just like within the world, that no two people are the same.

Naomi Katz: 31:44

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's one of the reasons why this framework is like never about being prescriptive.

Sadie Simpson: 31:50

Mm hmm.

Naomi Katz: 31:50

It's all about just helping people figure out their own personal, like, unique way of doing things that works for them. So the other thing that has to be said is that, even when we're super familiar with our fullness cues, we're still going to eat past fullness sometimes. That's not like a maybe, that's a definite. I feel like there's that whole- like the only definite things are death and taxes. I feel like it's the- the definite things are death, taxes, your body is going to change, and you're going to eat past fullness. Those are like my revised only definites.

Sadie Simpson: 32:34

There's our Instagram post for the week.

Naomi Katz: 32:37

So yeah, it's definitely going to happen. Sometimes we're gonna miss the mark by accident- we were distracted, we were stressed out, we were like, just tuned out for whatever reason, and we just blew past our fullness cues, and ended up uncomfortable. Sometimes we intentionally eat past fullness- like maybe we're out to dinner, or like, actually even at home, and something's just really delicious, and we choose not to stop eating, even though we feel that we're full. The super important thing to remember is that within the context of Intuitive Eating, and outside the context of diet culture, both of these things are totally okay. Like neither one of them says anything about us as people, or like has any morality attached to it. Eating past fullness by accident is just a learning experience. You can sort of look at the situation- Was I distracted? Was I stressed out? Like how could I have tuned in better? And you learn, and you move on. Eating past fullness by choice is an autonomous decision. And that is also super important, because we always get to make choices for ourselves about what's best for us. The most important thing is to practice letting go of perfectionism here. So- just like there's no perfect point of hunger where you're allowed to eat, or, you know, some perfect level of satisfaction that you need to reach- there's also no perfect level of fullness that means you have to stop eating. Thinking that there's an exact right point that you should always stop is that all or nothing, binary, black and white thinking of diet culture that we also talk about on every episode, because it bears repeating, and because it pops up so often.

Sadie Simpson: 34:28

Yeah. And having said that, if you're routinely eating to this point of physical discomfort, and if it's something that you do want to address- because remember, it is only a problem if you think it's a problem- there are some things we can look at as possible reasons for this being a thing. So number one, it's possibly hunger. And the reality is that the number one reason why people routinely eat to this point discomfort is that they're not adequately eating enough. They're not honoring their hunger on a regular basis. And again, when we talk about honoring hunger, we're not talking about just managing hunger, just eating barely enough. We are talking about eating to the point where we do begin to feel that physical fullness- regularly eating to the point of just this, again, comfortable fullness. And learning to fully honor our hunger is not a one and done situation. Like even if we've done the work, even if we worked through the Intuitive Eating principle honor your hunger- this is one of those things that we often have to come back to multiple times, and kind of re-practice, and remember, and just sort of work through some of that hunger stuff. And once we do that, like we talked about earlier, the fullness stuff can kind of work itself out sometimes, when we're working through the hunger principle. So another reason that we routinely eat past fullness is because of mental restriction, and giving ourselves just this conditional permission to eat. So when we haven't given ourselves this full, unconditional permission to eat, we're still feeling the effects of mental restriction. And making peace with food- again, just like with hunger- it's not a check the box, one and done situation. We often have to go back to the work of challenging the food police, and practicing this habituation thing. And sometimes we realize there's something that we didn't address earlier, maybe there's something that we missed when we were working on some of these other principles. And sometimes life situations happen, and they trigger some of our old narratives and our old beliefs around things like food, and hunger, and fullness, and whatever. And a good indication of that is just noticing what's happening- if you're only eating past fullness with specific foods. So we talked about our eating environment on the last episode, and discussed some of the reasons why it can be challenging to eat without distractions, and all of that's true. And if you've addressed hunger and mental restriction, but are still regularly eating to this point past comfortable fullness, it's worth taking a look at what the eating environment is like, and whether there are any changes that you might be able to make that are available to you. And lastly, one of the big obstacles that comes up around fullness is this clean plate narrative. And honoring our fullness cues is really, really, really hard to do when we assume, or we believe, or we've always felt like we have to eat everything on our plate, for whatever reason. And we can kind of talk about some of those reasons here in a second.

Naomi Katz: 38:03

So the clean plate narrative is one that I think a lot of people have. And like you and I actually talked, on one of our past episodes, about how we both have, you know, come across that in our own experiences, especially with our grandparents, too. And so I think a lot of us have this one, where, yeah, like we have to eat everything on our plate, or if we open a package of something, we have to finish it. So this is something that comes up a lot for folks who have experienced some kind of food scarcity, which is actually what both of us recognized about our grandparents- is that that's where it came from for them, that they sort of passed down. And like food scarcity could be, like- it could be something like living in a big family and having meals be kind of competitive, or it can be like actual food insecurity, where your next meal was uncertain and you had to eat everything you could while it was available. It can also come up for people- this clean plate narrative- people who grew up in families where it was considered wasteful to leave food unfinished, which would sort of be how it showed up for the two of us as it was passed down from our grandparents. So like, for our grandparents, it was food insecurity. For us, it's this narrative of it's wasteful to leave food unfinished, right? So in that context, you know, okay, it's considered wasteful to leave food unfinished. It can also be like, you have to clean your plate to earn dessert as a reward or something, or your family members that like push food on you and consider it like hurtful or disrespectful if you don't finish it. So those are all kinds of things that can show up in the family dynamic. And when this clean plate narrative comes up, we usually see it as like a drive to eat all of our food regardless of hunger or fullness. But it also comes up as like eating very, very quickly. And also as like feelings of guilt about not finishing food. So like all of these things can be an indication that that clean plate narrative is coming up. The thing is, once we see that the narrative is coming up, we can also go back and look at what the source of it is. And once we've identified the source, there's like- we can sort of reframe it a little bit. So like, we can look at the facts- which is especially helpful if we're talking about an actual situation of food insecurity that we're coming from- where we can, you know, really look at our current situation and be like, is this actually still representative of my current situation? Or am I now in a place where there is food security, and so I don't need to perpetuate this? If it's a situation where it has become like a value that's been passed down to us, again, that's something that we can sort of sit with and be like, do I personally believe that not finishing this food is disrespectful, or hurtful, or wasteful?

Sadie Simpson: 40:59

I think that's really important to point that out. Because we do have a lot of these narratives that are like generational, cultural, that have been with us forever and ever and ever. And to be able to come to question like is that a situation that still impacts us individually, and is this still a value that we uphold, is really important- not only to do this with food, but that can also translate into other areas of life, too,

Naomi Katz: 41:27

For sure. Like, one, always checking back in with how this stuff aligns with our big picture values- that's so impactful, and so helpful. And two, like, yeah, this like- just because of value has been passed down through generations does not mean it's a value that we want to uphold. Like, I think we can all think of a lot of examples of that.

Sadie Simpson: 41:49

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 41:52

But having said all of that, food waste is a real thing, and it's like a really serious problem in our food system and in our society, and there's nothing wrong with holding a value about not perpetuating that. But having that value also doesn't mean that you have to eat to the point of discomfort and finish everything in one sitting. That is literally what leftovers are all about. Get yourself some Tupperware, some- you know, there's- there's like a million ways that we can save that food for later, and then eat to fullness a whole other time. Like instead of eating past fullness at this point. Part of this work, especially if we're dealing with a value around food waste, can be getting comfortable with the idea of going back for seconds. So I think that's a really big hurdle for people for like a million reasons. But like if this is something that we're concerned about, one way to address it is to start with maybe less food and be okay with going back and getting more if the first round wasn't enough.

Sadie Simpson: 43:06

It's funny now that we're talking about all this. Whenever we previously talked about our grandparents and the whole food scarcity thing- like my Papa Fred was the one that always talked about being in the clean plate club, and he also had another thing that he did that kind of still- like I think about this all the time. Whenever we were sitting down to like a big family holiday meal or whatever, knowing you'd have like the big meal, and there would always be some kind of dessert, he always made a point to turn down seconds. Or if somebody was offering him another spoonful of macaroni and cheese, or turkey, or whatever the food was, he was like, no, I'm waiting for my holdback. And it was always like this funny thing that we would always talk about holdback. Because like as a kid, you're like, what the heck is holdback? The holdback is dessert. So this kind of turned into a whole family thing that, if you want to turn down seconds because you're saving room for dessert, you would always say something about like I'm saving the room for my holdbck. And I always wondered if anybody else in the world knows what holdback is, other than my family.

Naomi Katz: 44:15

I have never heard that expression before. I'm definitely familiar with the concept of saving room for dessert.

Sadie Simpson: 44:22

Oh yeah.

Naomi Katz: 44:22

Which, like, that's just good planning.

Sadie Simpson: 44:24

I need to Google this, though. Yeah. But I wonder if holdback was a Papa Fred-ism, or if that's like a thing that other people say.

Naomi Katz: 44:32

That's so interesting. So, if you're listening to this, and you have heard this before, send us a message-

Sadie Simpson: 44:38

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 44:39

@satisfactionfactorpod on Instagram. And let us know if this is like a universal thing or a Sadie's Papa Fred thing.

Sadie Simpson: 44:46

Yes.

Naomi Katz: 44:48

One of the best practices for this kind of narrative is basically just to try to like pause at some point during your eating- maybe it's sometime in the middle, whatever works for you- and like consciously try to tune in to both your physical sensations- your actual sensations of fullness that we talked about, your sensory sensations- so like the kinds of things that we talked about when we did satisfaction last week, and the narratives that might be coming up for you. And then sort of making your own decision about whether you're going to keep eating, or whether you're going to stop eating and save the rest for leftovers. The important thing to remember is that pausing does not mean you have to stop eating. You still get to make all the autonomous choices. So if you're starting to feel full, but you still want to eat, that's fine. You get to choose that. We just want to make it a mindful choice instead of like an autopilot thing, because that's the key to making the choice actually autonomous. I have definitely gotten people asking like, okay, but should I keep eating past fullness? And like, as always, that word should is like a huge red flag, right? The answer is, I don't know, that's up to you. There is no should. You get to decide what's going to work best for you in the moment. Also, PS, my family has like a specific phrase that we use for like pausing in the middle and deciding whether you're going to keep eating too. We refer to it as making a pausa, which I think is maybe Yiddish, actually. But like the idea was basically like you'd stop, and you'd like basically rest, and like figure out, do I want more food, or do I not want more food? And like, I think it's so interesting that that's something that was part of my eating culture growing up, it turns out it's like super in tune with an Intuitive Eating practice.

Sadie Simpson: 46:41

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 46:43

Like when I first learned about this, I was like, oh, so like, you just make a pausa, cool.

Sadie Simpson: 46:50

Oh, my gosh, it's so interesting to learn about other people's family eating things. I'm even thinking now, dessert has always been a big thing for our family meals- like we would always eat- especially like big celebratory meals and stuff, we would always have a meal, and like you would always immediately eat dessert after. And I remember, as an adult, or even like in high school, like I would go to other people's family dinners and things like that, and they would eat, and then they wouldn't eat dessert til like hours later. And I thought that was just the wildest thing. Because I was like, no, you have to eat dessert immediately following your meal, what is this. And it's just so interesting to see just the- the differences between families, and traditions, and things like that.

Naomi Katz: 47:37

That's so interesting that you bring that up, because Ben and I have that- where like Ben is a dessert right after dinner person, and I am a dessert like later. That's- that's so interesting. So one last thing about the clean plate narrative is that this narrative can also work against honoring our hunger in some ways- which like you wouldn't think it would, right, like you'd think it would just be about like eating past fullness. But I have definitely seen with folks, where- if they're a person who finishes everything on their plate, or everything in a package- if they do that, and they're still hungry, they feel like they're maybe limited to just that one. Because if- especially in terms of packages- if they open a second package and don't want to finish it, then they are going to feel like they have to. And so, instead, they just don't open that second package, and end up not getting all the way to fullness. So like, when I've seen that with folks that I've worked with, who were still buying like single serving packs of snacks and stuff like that, they found that it was much more helpful to stop buying the single servings and just serve themselves as much as they wanted.

Sadie Simpson: 48:52

I think that's a really good practical thing. Like if somebody out there is listening to this, and they might be kind of struggling with exactly that thing, instead of buying like the individual packs of potato chips, or cookies, or whatever, just buy the big bag of potato chips, and you know, serve yourself out whatever you want, and if you want more, go back and get it.

Naomi Katz: 49:16

Yeah. And then, you know, it also goes back to what we talked about, about how sometimes you need to be able to go back and get seconds if you didn't get enough food the first time. And so this actually helps do that work too. So.

Sadie Simpson: 49:30

And they can kind of help prevent food waste. So, say you do like put yourself a serving of potato chips on a plate, or a napkin, or whatever, and you're like, oh, I don't really want all of them- you can put the leftovers back in the bag and eat them again another time.

Naomi Katz: 49:46

That brings us to a really nuanced but also very necessary part of the conversation about fullness, which is how our feelings about fullness might reflect our feelings about fatness. So for one thing, you might notice that throughout this episode, and really always, we never use the phrase overeating. And that's intentional. It's for the same reason that we don't use the word overweight. And it's because it's arbitrary- like over what? Who decided that? And it's stigmatizing- it like inherently makes you feel like you've done something wrong by like surpassing some arbitrary boundary. So these are words that we don't use. And sometimes, noticing that language in your own conversations can sort of help you feel where a shift might be useful. Our goal in all of this is to guide our choices by our internal cues and feelings, rather than external judgments and rules. So it's important to define what eating you know, quote unquote, too much is for ourselves. So again, like using just like arbitrary words like overeating sort of robs us of that autonomy a little bit. A good place to start sort of exploring how our feelings about fullness and our feelings about fatness come together is to start thinking about, you know, some of the physical feelings of fullness that we've discussed, and to like notice if any of them bring up any feelings of judgment or narratives. Is it okay to feel a slight fullness in your stomach? What about heaviness? Like is that an okay feeling to have? What about bloating? Is that an okay feeling to have? You know, like, sort of starting to notice where these things feel okay, versus not. The distension of your stomach thing that we talked about earlier, right, and how there's like stigma around that. So is distension of your stomach okay? Like how much is too much? Is like some okay? And, you know, really sort of starting to feel that out for yourself. A kind of more nuanced one- Do you have different feelings about relaxation after eating versus drowsiness after eating? Like, does one of them seem like it's okay, and one of them seem like oh, that means I've eaten too much? Just sort of starting to feel out, like what judgments do you have around physical feelings of fullness and their varying intensities. The reason that it's sort of helpful to start sussing that out is to notice whether the fullness symptoms that you judge have any correlation to narratives about fatness. So what I mean by that is more distension, or any distension, or- so like any kind of increase in like the actual visible size of your stomach- if that's a problem, perhaps that's actually a fear of fatness. If relaxation after eating is okay, but drowsiness is not- is that maybe a narrative about laziness and people who eat too much? And like really starting to notice, where do these fatphobic narratives overlap with our discomfort around physical fullness cues. One of the next things you can sort of do here is to think about the language that we might use for our physical fullness cues. And that's language we might use now. It might be language we've used in the past. But so, if we're talking about feeling full, do we say things like, I'm so bad, or I'm so gross, or I feel fat to describe the physical feeling of fullness?

Sadie Simpson: 53:54

That- I'm so glad that you brought that up, because I feel like all of those phrases are things we probably have all said at some point, and we hear regularly without the, like, just even the consideration that these phrases are really rooted in a lot of fatphobia and are very harmful.

Naomi Katz: 54:25

Yeah, I mean, I certainly have said all of those things-

Sadie Simpson: 54:29

Yeah, me too.

Naomi Katz: 54:29

-about being full, and probably worse, even. And like it's just so interesting to be able to look at it now, with like the things that I've learned, and the different lenses that I've adopted over the years, and being like, wow, I was never talking about being full.

Sadie Simpson: 54:46

For sure.

Naomi Katz: 54:47

If we look at all of that, we can also really kind of see how a fear of fatness might prevent us from allowing ourselves to experience some of these common physical cues of fullness- like how these harmful narratives about fatness can easily become harmful narratives about fullness. Like if we have a fear of, or a judgement around, drowsiness, or around the distension of our stomach, or you know, something like that, then that might prevent us from ever actually allowing ourselves to feel that as a fullness cue. And that might mean that we're never actually getting all the way to full. Which sort of leads us into the concept of comfortable fullness. We mentioned earlier that we're going to get into like, what does discomfort actually even mean, and this is what we're talking about. It is possible that a discomfort about the perceived relationship between fullness and fatness can contribute to our sense of physical discomfort with some of those cues. Maybe that like stomach distension is not physically uncomfortable, but it is mentally uncomfortable for us. And we talked a little bit in our make peace with food episode about how like fears about certain things can manifest physically, and I think that that's very much true here, too. If we're uncomfortable with the concept of fatness and how our- a distended stomach might relate to that, that might make it feel like a distended stomach is physically uncomfortable for us. But just like with the making peace with food, the solution there isn't to eat less, it's to unpack the fatphobia that's there, that stigma that's there. You know, we can look at some specific things to sort of help tune us into whether that's what's going on. So, you know, for instance, when you talk about being uncomfortably full, can you identify a specific feeling of physical discomfort? Like, for instance, indigestion? Or do you just have like a general feeling of quote unquote, gross? Is the discomfort temporary, or does it last a while? Because actual physical discomfort from being full shouldn't last very long. If it's lasting longer than- an exact amount of time would be arbitrary because every- everybody digests a little bit differently- but if it's an ongoing discomfort, there's at least some chance that this is a mental discomfort as opposed to a physical discomfort. And then is the discomfort worse when it's from like certain foods- like maybe foods that you've restricted, or judged, or associated with fatness? Because, again, that's an indication that maybe it's not a physical discomfort, it's something that has- that we have left to unpack about these foods, or these- or fatness, or our bodies related to these foods.

Sadie Simpson: 57:56

Yeah, I think these specific questions are really good to consider when you're doing some of this work- just to recognize where not only like some of these beliefs may have come from, and where they might still exist for us- but yeah, again, just to kind of recognize is it physical discomfort? Is it a mental discomfort? Is it a narrative that we are kind of continuing just to allow to- to more or less dictate like our- what we eat, and how much we eat, and that sort of thing? So I think that's really helpful to have those couple of like, kind of check in questions.

Naomi Katz: 58:41

Yeah. And you know, unpacking our feelings about fatness is something that we're going to continue to do, probably for the rest of our lives, but especially throughout these principles, because it's always gonna come up. And it's really important to do for a ton of reasons. You know, most importantly, because weight stigma is really harmful to people in larger bodies, and the more we do this work, the more we can avoid contributing to that harm. But even on like that intrapersonal level- on a like, just with ourselves- it's important because our intrapersonal fatphobia is an obstacle to our relationships with our own bodies too. So like, this is the kind of work that has layers.

Sadie Simpson: 59:28

Yes. Lots and lots and lots of layers. Yeah, recognizing all of this stuff on both an interpersonal and an intrapersonal level is so important. And it's really, really, really hard to do too. So just having this conversation, hopefully, has been helpful for y'all who are

Naomi Katz: 59:45

Having grown up in a Jewish family, I can listening just to kind of, you know, kind of check in and question, what are some things that may still be going on as it is related to fullness and that type of thing. And on that note, we also have been putting question boxes on our Instagram stories. So on the@satisfactionfactorpod Instagram, on mine and Naomi's, on our personal Instagram accounts. Whenever we're getting ready to record another episode, we will ask if y'all have any questions or anything related to the topic that we're going to be talking about, for us to discuss and to answer on the podcast. And yesterday, we got a question regarding fullness on our Instagram story, and the question was, why do I feel uncomfortable when people tell me to eat more but I'm full and I don't want to? And I think that's such a great question, and let's answer it. So first, it totally makes sense that that would make you uncomfortable- like that would make anybody feel uncomfortable, I think. Pressuring us to do things that we won't- or that we don't want to do is not okay, like in any context, and is a violation of our autonomy, and our consent, and our boundaries. And it sounds like this is really a discomfort with setting and holding boundaries, as opposed to a specific issue with fullness. And the reality is that concerns about outside pressure come up a lot, especially with this Intuitive Eating work, pretty much about every single principle. And that's why a big part of Intuitive Eating, and doing this type of work, is learning to set and maintain boundaries. And we did a whole episode on that if you want to go back and check it out. But- this isn't specifically part of the question, and I think it's worth addressing- is that we always get to make our own decisions about what, when, how much we want to eat. And in those situations, it's okay to sit and hold the boundary. And it's also okay to agree to eat more, even if you're not hungry, if making this person happy is more of a priority for you. So there's some, you know, again, some nuance to kind of consider here. And like maybe it is your grandmother, or somebody you only see one time a year, and she made a special pie, or whatever. And you can choose to set and maintain this boundary, or you can eat more as a way of connecting with your grandmother. And both are wholeheartedly heartedly echo that in that culture as well. totally fine, and both are okay. And I think the key here is to really make it an autonomous decision that you have decided on. Like you are the one that gets to just set this boundary and to make this decision, and both options are fine. And I also think about this in a context- especially like here in the south again, sometimes it is considered to be rude if you don't eat somebody's food, like if you're going to a family meal or whatever. And sometimes there is this pressure, like if you don't eat your Aunt Linda's famous potato salad, that she's gonna get offended. And like, we just have this southern truism almost that like we have to abide by, or like, we feel like we are wrong, and we are being rude. I'm sure that's you know, not just a southern thing.

Sadie Simpson: 1:03:41

Yes, yeah. And I think this is really important, too, to kind of consider with kids. Like I know, personally, I really try so so hard to be intentional with this with my kid. If he says I'm full- even if he hasn't really eaten a lot, and even if I don't think he should be full- I really try hard to honor this, like to teach him how to recognize his hunger and fullness, and to practice making autonomous decisions about his body, and to help him kind of advocate for himself. So like done means done, full means full, no means no. And I think it's so important- like if anybody out there is listening that has kids in their lives- to recognize like this is a really important practice to incorporate in, not necessarily just parenting, but like being around kids, and using this idea of choosing when to stop eating as a way to also teaching them how to kind of cultivate this body autonomy is like super, super, super important. And-

Naomi Katz: 1:04:53

I love that perspective.

Sadie Simpson: 1:04:55

Yeah.

Naomi Katz: 1:04:55

So like I've definitely heard people talk before about things like- like, you know, not forcing your kids to hug people, and like, you know, how that's a way of teaching autonomy, and consent, and boundaries, and all of that stuff. But like it- I never even thought of this as that. But it's totally true, and, like such a wonderful way to like teach kids that like, they're the boss of their bodies.

Sadie Simpson: 1:05:24

Yeah. And it's hard. Like, you worry about your kid not eating enough for like so many reasons, growth being one thing, and brain development, and all this other stuff. But also kind of like for your own sake and your sanity as a parent, because it's really annoying to have to get snacks all the time, like every five seconds, and it's really frustrating when your kid is asking for food five minutes after a meal. And this is where some boundary setting like on the parenting side of things can kind of come in. But that could be a whole episode in and of itself.

Naomi Katz: 1:05:59

Yeah, which- we keep saying we're gonna do an episode on parenting and this stuff, and we really seriously are. We're just not there yet.

Sadie Simpson: 1:06:09

Sprinkling in these little like tidbits, and things can be helpful too.

Naomi Katz: 1:06:14

Yeah, definitely. That's a- I love that perspective so much. And yeah, that's- yay! So if that was helpful, you know, feel free to reach back out and let us know. The last thing, before we wrap up this episode is we always want to talk a little bit about how this applies outside of food. It's so interesting, because actually, Sadie, I feel like that was like the perfect transition. Because, as always, one of the big ways that doing this work translates outside of food is building autonomy and self trust. And so like sort of sharing how you use this as a tool to teach those things to your kid- like, of course, that would work the same way for us, right, as- as adults. Like, learning to do this for ourselves with food, helps us learn to do this for ourselves with other situations in our lives too- to like trust ourselves to tune into what, and why, and how, and all of that stuff, and to just trust ourselves to like to be able to move through the world. I love that that's such like a perfect illustration of how this carries out into other parts of our lives. And then you know, the other thing is, you know, like we talked about unpacking that like fullness and fatness narrative really helps us peel back more layers of weight stigma that we may be perpetuating, or that we may be internalizing. And that's always an important and good thing. Like that- that always has implications far outside of just what and how we eat. So that's it for this principle. Next week, we are going to dive into principle number seven, cope with your emotions with kindness. So this is the principle where we talk all about emotional eating, which I think is a real hot topic. And surprise, our take on that is not going to be the typical diet culture one. Really, we're going to be talking a lot about why emotional eating is actually not a bad thing. So make sure you tune in for that. In the meantime, Sadie, what's satisfying you right now?

Sadie Simpson: 1:08:20

So we're recording this, again, about a week before Thanksgiving, so we can kind of, you know, get

Naomi Katz: 1:08:24

I- So, first of all, I love that you're doing that, caught up, or get ahead of the game, so we can take a little break. And I'm really excited to take this little break over Thanksgiving because we have been going pretty hard like recording the podcast, getting it out there. We've made it through the first couple of months, we're getting some really great feedback, and it's really exciting. And, like I'm and I hope you thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy it. We have kind of ready to take a little bit of a break, not only from the podcast, but like just from social media, and the internet, and from life in general. So I've decided that next week- I don't exactly know what day- but sometime next week, I'm going to shut off all of my social media on my phone, which is something I try to do a couple times a year- like just completely erase definitely been working really hard, and taking that kind of a it from my phone so I don't check it habitually all the time. But it's time. Like I'm feeling that in my bones, it's time to take a little bit of a social media break. And I'm really excited about that. Looking forward to that. So that way I can kind of like, you know, just step back a little bit and then come back and feel a little refreshed. What about you? break is going to be really nice.

Sadie Simpson: 1:09:50

Yeah. What's satisfying for you right now?

Naomi Katz: 1:09:53

So what's been satisfying for me is I've been doing a- I've been like updating my winter wardrobe lately.

Sadie Simpson: 1:10:03

Ooh.

Naomi Katz: 1:10:03

Yeah, so my body has gotten bigger over the past year, or two years- like, you know, it's been doing that for a little while. And so, I have found that I need some new clothes. And we're definitely going to talk more about this in body respect, but like, one of the ways that I show my body respect is by dressing it in clothes that fit, and are comfortable, and also that I like. Now I have a lot of-

Sadie Simpson: 1:10:35

Ooh.

Naomi Katz: 1:10:35

Yeah. I have a lot of privilege in that area- where like, yes, my body has gotten bigger, but I still can find clothes in, like pretty much all stores. So you know, I- I recognize wholeheartedly that that is a privilege. And it's been fun. My winter wardrobe- I usually- like, I don't like the winter. I'm not a winter person. And sort of updating my winter wardrobe to things that I think are cute and fun helps that feeling of, oh my god, winter's coming, and it's gonna be terrible. Plus, it's like- it helps me build- like continue to build comfort with my current body, which- so all around, it's just been kind of like fun and satisfying to do.

Sadie Simpson: 1:11:31

That's so great to hear. Often you hear just stories about shopping in general- or maybe this is just my personal narrative, I don't know- but it just like, sometimes it's just a dreaded thing. So I'm excited to hear that you're like finding some joy in that, and finding clothes that you like and make you feel good. Because you are so right. It is about to be cold and not exciting here in western North Carolina. So anything you can do to make yourself feel a little happier when it gets dark at like five o'clock at night, I feel like is a good thing.

Naomi Katz: 1:12:08

For sure. What's funny is that like, I don't know about you, but like, we still don't go out very much these days.

Sadie Simpson: 1:12:15

Yeah. no.

Naomi Katz: 1:12:17

And I don't- you know, I work from home, so I spend most of my days in like sweatpants and a sweatshirt. So it is a little bit funny that I'm like updating my wardrobe for like five times we're gonna go out in the entire winter, but it still feels worth it to me.

Sadie Simpson: 1:12:34

At least you're not going to get in a situation where you do have the chance to go out and do something, and you're like, oh, crap, I only have sweatpants. Because I think that's kind of the situation I'm going to be in. So yeah, maybe you're like motivating me to- to go shopping, which is something I hate. Like I hate clothes shopping more than anything.

Naomi Katz: 1:12:53

Yeah, I used to hate it too. I feel like I have found ways to make it a little bit less stressful over the years. One of those ways being doing- it- being that I do it primarily online, like order multiple sizes and send the stuff that doesn't fit back, so that I don't have to like mess around with what's in the store, and like dressing rooms, and nonsense.

Sadie Simpson: 1:13:18

Yes. Awesome. So if you enjoyed this podcast, we would love to connect with you over on our Instagram page. We are @satisfactionfactorpod. And be sure to come on and comment, let us know what you think about this episode. Feel free to share our post and our episodes in your stories. Send us a direct message. We love hearing from you. And another simple thing you can do to support us if you're listening in Apple podcasts, leave us a rating and review, as this helps us reach more people.

Naomi Katz: 1:13:52

Yeah. Well, thanks everybody, and we'll catch you next week.