Satisfaction Factor

#14 - Intuitive Eating Deep Dive: Joyful Movement & Gentle Nutrition

December 29, 2021 Naomi Katz & Sadie Simpson
Satisfaction Factor
#14 - Intuitive Eating Deep Dive: Joyful Movement & Gentle Nutrition
Show Notes Transcript

This week, Naomi & Sadie wrap up the Intuitive Eating Deep Dive series with a nuanced look at the concepts covered by the last two principles of Intuitive Eating,  joyful movement and gentle nutrition. Exercise and nutrition are topics that are heavily influenced by diet culture, so these principles generally come last, both in theory and in practice. In this episode, we discuss: why it's beneficial to disconnect movement from weight loss goals; what we mean when we talk about joyful movement; why we might need to take breaks from movement altogether; common barriers to joyful movement; the myth of perfect nutrition; and how to avoid turning nutrition into a diet.

You can stay up to date on all things Satisfaction Factor by following us on IG @satisfactionfactorpod!

And this is the last week of enrollment  for the 2022 cohort of Nourish & Bloom, Naomi's 40-week group Intuitive Eating workshop for free-thinking grown-ups who want to reject diet culture & cultivate resilience! Enrollment closes on December 31st at midnight, and the workshop kicks off on January 3rd. Click here to get all the details, including pricing & the full curriculum, and to enroll today!

And be sure to check out Shame Free Fitness, Sadie's new training program for fitness professionals who strive to be the change within an industry that is centered around diet culture. Enrollment will reopen in early 2022, but you can click here to get on the waitlist now!

Here's where to find us:
Sadie Simpson: www.sadiesimpson.com or IG @thesadiesimpson
Naomi Katz: www.happyshapes.co or IG @happyshapesnaomi

For this episode's transcript, visit: www.satisfactionfactorpod.com

This episode references:
Linda G. of the Fluffy Kitten Party blog and this post from her @littlewingedpotatoes Instagram account

Naomi Katz:

Welcome to Satisfaction Factor, the podcast where we explore how ditching diet culture makes our whole lives more satisfying. Hi everyone, welcome back to Satisfaction Factor. I'm Naomi Katz, and Intuitive Eating, body image, and self trust coach providing anti diet support to free thinking grownups who want to reclaim their autonomy and consent from diet culture.

Sadie Simpson:

I'm Sadie Simpson, an anti diet group fitness instructor and Intuitive Eating counselor, and I help other fitness professionals disengage from diet culture so they can improve program enrollment, engagement, impact, and retention without shame and manipulation.

Naomi Katz:

So here we are in episode nine of our Intuitive Eating Deep Dive series. We are going to be covering both joyful movement and gentle nutrition in this episode. But before we dive into that, heads up that Nourish & Bloom enrollment will be closing this Friday, December 31st at midnight, but you've still got a couple of days left to enroll if you would like. Nourish & Bloom is a 40 week workshop based on the Intuitive Eating framework. Together in a small group environment, we use this framework to explore topics related to, obviously, Intuitive Eating, and also the system of diet culture, building autonomy, cultivating body respect, and really building the skills that we need to be resilient to the diet culture around us. Because we can't 100% escape diet culture. This time of year, that's probably evident more than any other time of year. But we can learn how to set boundaries, take care of ourselves, and talk back to that diet culture when it pops up, so that it doesn't have the same impact on us. The workshop itself starts on January 3, and includes four weeks on each principle. So that's 40 weekly emails, 10 group Q&A/coaching calls, and, by popular request, there is now an online community hosted on The Mighty Network, where folks can share their thoughts and experiences as they're going through the program. There's also a Nourish & Bloom Elevated option with additional Voxer add on one to one support, if that feels like it might be helpful to you throughout the workshop. Nourish & Bloom is priced for accessibility, including extended payment plans, and there's also one scholarship spot remaining for folks holding marginalized identities or in financial need. That's no questions asked, you just have to let me know that you want to claim them. You can get all of the details, including the full curriculum, the pricing, and the link to enroll at happyshapes.co/nourishandbloom right up until midnight on December 31.

Sadie Simpson:

Ooh, when the ball drops, the doors close.

Naomi Katz:

Exactly! Happy New Year!

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

So in this episode, we are going to cover the last two principles of Intuitive Eating. That's principle nine, Movement- Feel the Difference, and principle 10, Honor Your Health with Gentle Nutrition. I think it's kind of notable that both of these come after body respect, because learning to treat our bodies with respect is really very much a necessary prerequisite to make sure that we don't turn movement into something terrible and that we don't turn nutrition into a diet. As always, while these aren't steps, movement and nutrition tend to be the last both in theory and in practice. Because these concepts are so deeply embedded in diet culture that it really requires us to have done all the work to build a strong foundation in all the other principles, so that we can avoid getting sucked back into the diet culture of it all.

Sadie Simpson:

Oh, yeah. Well, and I know I mentioned this before, on the make peace with food episode, that- like you talked about how nutrition and movement tend to be the last things that we cover when we're working through the Intuitive Eating principle- but often- just since my background is in exercise, and movement, and in fitness- just the idea of joyful movement, or practical movement, or whatever tends to be kind of interwoven throughout the other principles, when I'm working with folks. And it just feels natural for me to kind of work on healing a relationship with movement at the same time that we're working on all the food stuff too. But I know, again, that varies, and that's different for everybody too.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, but I do love that perspective, because, you know, like we mentioned before, it really drives home how unique this work is to each individual, depending on their background, and their relationship to different things, and all of that stuff. So I just- I love hearing how you approach this versus how I approach it. And I also- you know, it's interesting- while I find that I rarely do movement stuff with people earlier in the principles- maybe a little bit when we talk about self care, and maybe a little when we talk about body respect- I do find that, you know, even nutrition stuff sometimes comes up earlier, and like, that we can do work around this stuff without focusing our work on that stuff earlier in the principles. If that makes sense.

Sadie Simpson:

Ooh yeah. Yeah, that makes total sense, and I like that perspective. Well, I even had one client that, from the first week that we started working together, one of the first things that she brought up was her hatred and history with exercise and with movement, and just how, like, she just had such a bad taste in her mouth from any form of exercise- just based on previous life experiences, like school PE, and being forced to do the Presidential Physical Fitness Test back in the 90s, in the early 2000s. And like she had worked with a personal trainer that was very Jillian Michaels-ish militant-like-

Naomi Katz:

Oh no.

Sadie Simpson:

-using exercise - yeah- like a very punishment-driven personal trainer. But that was one of the things that she wanted to work on, was healing this negative association and this negative relationship with movement. And I mean, just to give a quick example, like one of the things that we worked on, like from the get go, was looking at movement- not necessarily from a you have to schedule exercise four times a week for 45 minutes each time and have this like official formal thing that you do- but to start thinking about movement more in a practical way that was beneficial, kind of, like you said, for self care, for mental health, for pain management, and that sort of thing. And I know we'll get into all that here in just a minute. But I think it's helpful just to kind of hear some, like, actual practical ways we use this within the Intuitive Eating framework.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. So another thing that I think is really important to remember here is that Intuitive Eating is not like a checkbox list to get us to gentle nutrition and joyful movement. So it's not like these two principles are the end goals of Intuitive Eating, or like somehow more important than the other principles, or any of that. Because when we frame it that way, then Intuitive Eating as a framework still becomes something that's based around the goals of diet and exercise. Like even if, yeah, maybe a healthy relationship with nutrition and movement, but still framed around diet and exercise as the end goals. What that means is that some of us might not want to do work on nutrition or exercise at all, right now or ever. And that's okay. The other parts of this framework still are important, and work, and count all on their own. Some people use this framework really more as a way to build body respect, and a way to just heal their relationship with food without any focus on quote, unquote, health or nutrition. There's just so many ways to approach Intuitive Eating as a framework, and so many benefits outside of just healing our relationship with nutrition and exercise. Really, since the whole thing of Intuitive Eating is actually about connecting with our needs, our preferences, our lifestyles, and all of that stuff, choosing not to work on nutrition and movement is actually just as much a practice of Intuitive Eating as choosing to work on it.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, that's a great perspective. And, since movement and nutrition are included in this framework, we got to talk about it a little bit at least. So that's what we're gonna do today. So let's talk about it- Intuitive Eating principle nine. The official title is Movement - Feel the Difference. In previous versions of the Intuitive Eating book, and even in the workbook, it used to be called Exercise - Feel the Difference, but that was changed to Movement in 2020, mostly because the word exercise comes with connotations of things, again, like no excuses, and no pain/no gain, and all these kinds of negative things that we tend to associate with exercise, and especially the connection between movement or exercise and weight loss. And basically, the whole point of the change in the name was to make sure that it was really, really clear that we're talking about all kinds of movement, not just intentional, official, scheduled workouts and things like that. And we'll dig into these connotations and these connections a little bit deeper. But, for the most part, I use exercise and movement interchangeably. And I assume you probably do, too. Like, you'll hear me say exercise, and movement, and even fitness to an extent, like kind of all interchangeably, because I just- in my world, they're all kind of the same thing. But I do recognize they may not mean the same thing for other people.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, I definitely do the same thing. And I think it's because, when we look at all this stuff outside of the context of diet culture, the differences between them basically go away. But yeah, I think it's helpful to understand that there's different terminology, because everybody's at different points in their, you know, removal from diet culture, and so like some of those different meanings might still be hanging on for some people.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

Personally, when I'm talking about workouts, I like to use the phrase intentional exercise. But I also sometimes forget to do that.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

So that brings us kind of to the reason that this is a principle at all, which is the way that dieting and weight loss get connected to exercise, and how that disconnects us from exercise. It's so common for us to think of exercise as something that's super unpleasant. It's like this chore that we don't really want to do, or it's too hard, or whatever. And a lot of that has to do with the association between exercise and diets. Many of us- historically, at least, if not still- have only started exercising when we started a diet. And so when we do that, like the sole purpose of that exercise is to lose weight or to change our bodies in some way. And that kind of exercise is pretty miserable for a lot of reasons. First and foremost, since we start the exercise routine alongside a diet, it often means that we're under fed, and that we don't actually have the energy to properly fuel ourselves for exercise. That's a really big one that I think can often be overlooked, is like if you're cutting calories- which, as we mention all the time, calories are energy- if you're cutting calories, and also upping your calorie/energy expenditure, like you're not going to be keeping up with what your body needs to physically do the exercise, and that's going to suck. Secondly, within the context of dieting and the pursuit of weight loss, we usually feel like exercise has to be as hard as possible to count. You know, this is where we hear things like beast mode, and no pain/no gain, and all kinds of like bro gym phrases. And that makes it a brutal, grueling experience that feels terrible, because we feel like if it doesn't feel terrible, then it's not accomplishing what we needed to accomplish. And lastly- so we know that dieting doesn't result in sustainable weight loss over 95% of the time, right, like diets fail 95% of the time- and when we've linked our exercise to that diet and to the weight loss that's- that we think is going to come with a diet, it means that when the diet fails- when, not if- we also think that the exercise has failed, and so we stop doing it, because we feel like we failed at both of these things.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, it's so unfortunate that some of the most mainstream weight loss programs out there, like Weight Watchers/WW, or My Fitness Pal- those are two that I just know of specifically- that you literally earn points, or calories, or whatever, through exercise. Like whenever you enter, you know, your food journal or whatever, like the algorithm spits out a magical number, that like you earn more food by doing more movement. And that really- god that's so problematic- it just sets us up for a really, really, really bad relationship, when we're looking at food, and exercise, and just all of these things as a package deal. So bad.

Naomi Katz:

Oh my god, it's so bad. Like it is- it's just the worst relationship with both food and exercise that you could possibly have.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, and really weight loss, or any kind of aesthetic body change, is a terrible motivator for exercise anyway. Because, again, we already know that intentional weight loss through dieting, especially like when it's associated or it coincides with picking up a new habit of exercise- like, the way we historically tend to do these things is in a very extreme way that's not ever sustainable- whether it is, again, the diet side of things, or the movement side of things- and the whole system is setting us up for failure from the get go. Because we can't live up to the expectations that we think we're going to achieve- like long term weight loss, or long term body change, or whatever- from participating in some type of extreme exercise program, or again, like some kind of extreme diet program that you do right along with this extreme everything else.

Naomi Katz:

The other thing about weight loss as a motivator is that, like, weight loss is very rarely something that we've autonomously chosen for ourselves, or like that we're passionate about all on our own. It's usually this like externally motivated desire that we've like taken on in response to society's expectations. And that makes it really hard to find the internal motivation to keep doing it, especially when it's not actually getting us any closer to those like societal standards that we're chasing, because intentional weight loss fails 95% of the time. So like, it's just all around such a bad motivator.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

So a big part of this work is recognizing all the benefits of exercise and movement that have nothing to do with weight loss. And there are a million amazing non diet, non weight loss reasons to pursue movement. It is indisputable that movement is a health promoting and a life improving behavior. And what's really important to know is that that's true independent of any change in weight. So there are tons of studies that show health benefits from regular movement that are not in any way dependent on a change in body size, meaning that studies showed that these health benefits exist, even when the participants in those studies didn't actually see any change in their body weight, or body size. So some of the health benefits that come from a regular movement routine, without any change in your body weight- I feel like that's so important to say over and over again- are things like better sleep, better mood, better digestion, better blood pressure, cholesterol levels, blood sugar, better bone density- so movement is really important in the prevention of things like osteoporosis and osteopenia. And then there's other stuff, like you can see increased strength, and endurance, and flexibility, increased mobility, and coordination, like all of that stuff. And then there's like, maybe some less tangible stuff, like improved body image and self esteem, higher confidence, improved mental health, like all of that stuff. And like, that's not even- that's like barely the tip of the iceberg.

Sadie Simpson:

And that's a pretty great list right there.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, it's an unbelievably extensive list. And it's not even a complete list. So, but the thing is that we overlook all of those benefits when we're super focused on whether our exercise is resulting in weight loss. And worse, we miss out on them, because we give up on exercise when it doesn't result in weight loss. So what that means is that the more we can disconnect movement from diets and body change, the more sustainable it can become, and the more it can benefit us and our health in the long run.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, and you know, we've talked about this a little bit already, but one of the big problems with exercise in the context of diet culture is that we often believe that it has to be grueling, or it has to be intense, or it has to be hard in order to count, or that we have to be sweating, or that it has to induce soreness, or pain, or anything like that, or the exercise has to be an hour, or whatever. And one interesting little tidbit just from my experience of teaching group exercise prior to COVID, where I work- or where I teach classes at the YMCA- the class schedule- like most of the classes were an hour long. When we reopened again during COVID, to kind of promote social distancing, and cleaning, and that sort of thing, all of the classes got reduced down to 45 minutes. And the comments from the participants were really interesting, because they were all like, okay, now that things are, you know, lightening up a little bit, when can we get back to our- our class- when are we going to get back to hour long classes. And I always thought that was just really interesting to hear that feedback, because in my opinion, like as the instructor, I felt like 45 minutes was sufficient enough. So that was a really good opportunity to start having some conversations, like with my classes, about what exercise looks like, and what counts, and what- you know, how we can kind of view movement a little bit differently. And it was a good teaching experience for me. And really, like a lot of that mindset has to do with the fact that we only consider things to quote unquote, count, if we think it's going to, quote unquote, work. And what we typically, in our society, think that work means is that work is equivalent to weight loss, or work is going to result in weight loss. But when we refocus some of these goals away from weight loss, and towards all of the other health benefits, we have to measure what works in a completely different way. And then another aspect of movement and exercise that we don't really hear about in most mainstream fitness programs, or- you know, it's not stuff you see about on Instagram, or wherever- is the idea of just moving for a couple of minutes a day. Like, again, we always feel like exercise has to be this long thing- a 30 minute, 45 minute, hour long thing. But often that duration is not realistic for most people. And it doesn't promote any sort of consistency, because it's unrealistic. So like, when I'm working with people, a big thing that we talk about is kind of lowering the bar- like lowering some of our barriers to entry to finding some kind of consistency with movement. And a lot of times that does look like just trying to do something- whether it's stretching, or walking, or just anything- for five, or 10, or 15 minutes per day, if that's accessible to them, you know, in- in whatever season of life they're in. So really- like I'm a big fan of lowering the bar.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, and that makes so much sense when you think about- like, if you're looking at these other kinds of health based goals that aren't related to weight loss and diets- then like, something we can do consistently is definitely going to, quote unquote, work better than something that we can only fit in like once a week, or once every couple of weeks, or like we can do for five days in one week and then not again for a month. Like those are things that like, obviously, you're not going to get those same health benefits if you can only do it sporadically. So like smaller doses more consistently- like, again, if we're redefining what works means, that obviously works better.

Sadie Simpson:

Exactly.

Naomi Katz:

Basically, all of this is we're- we're trying to reexamine our relationship with exercise. For me, I found that a really helpful technique in examining that relationship is sort of looking back on our exercise story, I guess you could call it. Um, we talked a little bit last week about sort of like writing out like a body story, or like a body timeline kind of a thing. And this is very similar to that, just sort of focused on milestones in our relationship to movement, and like sort of uncovering narratives and identities that we might be holding related to movement. Just like with our bodies, most of us don't start off with a complicated relationship to movement. Most of the time, we learned to feel a certain way about movement. And it's really helpful to, one, remember how moving our body felt before it got complicated, and, two, to like identify the sources of any narratives that we might be holding. So much like with our food narratives, and our body narratives, and stuff like that, because the reality is that when we've had bad experiences with exercise, or whenever exercise has primarily been a way for us to feel less-than, it's gonna be really hard to build a positive relationship with movement without unpacking all of those experiences and narratives. You know, just as a personal anecdote about that, like, I definitely had an incredibly complicated relationship with movement and exercise for most of my life. Like I can remember I was a super uncoordinated kid. And so like, I mean, we all know how bad like the Presidential Fitness Tests, and gym class, and stuff were. But like, I can even remember like, joining a soccer team when I was in elementary school, and it being like, one of the worst experiences of my life. I just hated every second of it. And then I was in high school and was- like, despite all of like my body image, and like body stuff that I had going on in high school- for some reason, I thought it would be a good idea to join the swim team and like, be in a bathing suit in front of everybody, like on a regular basis. And like that definitely complicated my relationship to movement. Also still super uncoordinated, so I was not very good at it. And then I like didn't move or exercise at all for a really long time, because I was like, oh, I hate this, I'm never doing this. Until I picked it back up related to dieting and weight loss as an adult. And that sucked too, for all the reasons that we've already talked about. And so when I got to the point where I wanted to heal my relationship with movement and exercise, like I really sort of had to unpack a lot of those experiences, and heal them a little bit, in order to be able to have a relationship with movement and with exercise that wasn't gross feeling.

Sadie Simpson:

Oh, my gosh, I'm glad you shared that. And that is so relatable, I'm sure, to so many people, myself included. It's weird to think about that, literally my entire career is founded upon pursuing exercise, initially- like as a teenager, early 20s- like, as a means to lose weight. And like my- my livelihood has been founded upon that. Obviously, that's evolved and changed over the years. But it's just- it's just weird to kind of think about that. Another technique that can be really helpful when we're trying to heal or redefine our relationship with movement is actually just taking a break from intentional exercise altogether for a while. And I know you mentioned earlier that you view intentional exercise as like a specific workout that you're going to do, like whether it is like a yoga class, or strength training session, or whatever. It's not necessarily just movement that- that happens. It's not just like, you know, walking to the mailbox or playing with our kids, but like specific, intentional exercise. And taking a break from this can be so helpful, and so healing. And I think it's something that is helpful to do, not just one time, but like on a- I don't want to say consistent basis- but kind of intermittently. Because even if we are doing this work, or we've already done this work to heal our relationship with movement and to cultivate some more like realistic movement practices, one, like, sometimes these things sort of creep back up over time. Like sometimes you can get back into that mode or that zone of like using exercise as a tool, maybe for weight loss, or for body change, or something like that. But also, mentally, sometimes you just need to take a step back from official and formal exercise, especially if it's something that you do on a regular basis. I feel like it's a good thing mentally and physically to just take a little break every once in a while.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you brought up that it's not like a one and done kind of thing, where like, oh, I've taken a break, and now I never need to take a break again.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

I know that, like for me, every time I- for whatever reason- have to take a break from movement, I find that there's new layers to peel back in my relationship with it. Like most recently, you know, with COVID, and how that has shifted a lot of things in my relationship with movement and with exercise. Like- so like as recently as that, despite the fact that I've been doing this work for, you know, how long I've been doing it- that like there's always like a little bit more to look at.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes. Well, that's funny that you say that, too, because- I think I've shared this before- but when I first started teaching group exercise classes, I thought the greatest thing about it was that I was getting paid to exercise.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah.

Sadie Simpson:

I was like sweet, I'm going to go hard, I'm going to teach this class, and I'm going to get paid, and I'm going to do all the movements, and all this sort of stuff. And over time, that evolved into really shifting like the way I taught classes, and turned it into more of a coaching thing, instead of me doing the actual workout thing. But when we went back to the gym, when we went back to in person classes, like in the midst of COVID, that ended up being the only intentional movement that I participated in for a while. So it kind of turned back into me being like, well, I guess if I'm going to, quote unquote, count anything for exercise, it's going to be the class that I'm teaching. But the neat thing that I kind of noticed about this whole full circle scenario that happened was that, you know, 15 years ago, even though it was what, quote, unquote, counted as my workout, I was, like, going hard and doing all the things, and now it's what I count as my workout, but I'm still like kind of just halfway doing everything, and I'm okay with it. Like, that's- it's fine.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, it's so interesting to see those shifts.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

So another cool thing about taking a break from movement is that it sort of gives us a chance to separate ourselves from any specific narratives we might have going on. That was really, like, loose, and non detailed, and vague. But I'm going to give a specific example. So I know in my experience- so, you know, I've talked before- I was a Pilates instructor. For a lot of years, I was like very much in that like fitness and diet culture mindset. And because I was a Pilates instructor, I also had a lot of friends who were yoga instructors. And I used to go to these like vinyasa flow, like very fitness-y yoga classes. And I hated that. Like, I was uncomfortable, and I was hot, and I was just not enjoying anything about them. And so, for years, I actually avoided yoga entirely. I was just like, nope, I don't like yoga. And like, that continued to be true, even after I did all kinds of unpacking around exercise, and like making that disconnect from diets and diet culture, and like all of that. I still never even considered going back to yoga, because I just was like, no, I don't like it. And then I was talking to a friend one day, and I was saying something along the lines of how like, I wished I liked yoga, because I could tell that my body could use stretching, and like some flexibility, and mobility, and stuff. And she suggested I try a gentle yoga class. And like, my mind exploded a little bit, because I was like, oh my god, I didn't even really realize that options like gentle yoga existed, because my awareness of yoga was created during that like diet culture fitness time, and those didn't count when I was in that headspace. They were like, just so far outside of what I thought counted that I like literally had like, blocked from my awareness that they even existed. And so I tried them. I like started trying things like yin yoga, and like gentle yoga, and slow flow yoga, and stuff like that. And it turns out, I love them. Like, absolutely love. They're not fitness-y, they feel amazing, they're like exactly what my body was telling me it needed. But like, it's so interesting how many steps I had to go through to get there. Where like, I had to step away from the thing for a while, I had to examine my relationship to the thing, and then eventually I had to like redefine my relationship to the thing entirely. And so taking these breaks really gives us the space to do that. And eventually we might find something that we truly love by doing that.

Sadie Simpson:

I love that. And that just kind of reminds me of something. Anytime I have a new person come to my class, or somebody that's even just new to exercise in general, or new to the studio or the gym where I'm working, one of the first questions that I ask is if they've tried any of the other classes, or what other classes have they tried. And if they haven't tried anything else, I really like to encourage people to kind of test out a little bit of everything, so they can sort of see what they like and what they hate. Because every time I have these kinds of conversations with people, they're usually pretty surprised by what they enjoy, that they didn't think they would enjoy. A lot of people have like assumptions wrapped around water aerobics or aquatic exercise, that it's for like old ladies. But when I encourage younger people to check it out, like they're generally very surprised by that, that it's like a fun way to move. So I think that's a really great story, not only from like just taking a break and taking a step away from movement to sort of reassess your relationship with it, or what you like and what you hate, and that sort of thing, but to also, like, give ourselves the chance to- to open up a little bit, and just to kind of explore what's out there. Because it's okay to hate something, and it's okay to like something, but we don't know what we like and what we hate unless we try, too. So ultimately, redefining exercise, and redefining how we view movement, and even taking a break- the purpose of all of this is to help us find what is known in the Intuitive Eating framework as joyful movement. And that can mean different things for different people. And I think it's important to clarify this common misconception that joyful movement is synonymous with gentle movement, because that's not necessarily the case. And often, like, if you're looking at the hashtag joyful movement on Instagram or on other social media sites, it's in this context of gentle movement, like yoga, like going for a walk, or something else that's just very relaxed and very gentle. And I think there's a benefit in showing this side of joyful movement, especially for people who might be earlier in the stages of reassessing what they feel like counts as movement, but again, it doesn't necessarily have to be gentle movement. Anything can be joyful movement, as long as it makes you feel good when you do it. And some people out there actually find joy in running- like, that's not something personally I have ever found any joy in, ever.

Naomi Katz:

Same.

Sadie Simpson:

But some people really like it, and that's great. Like, if that's something that you find joy in, by all means, go for it. Another common example is weightlifting- a lot of people find that lifting weights is a form of joyful movement. It's not necessarily gentle, but dang it- like it feels good. Like it makes you feel good. Or I know it makes me feel good like in my body. And it just makes me feel better about myself when I can consistently do some sort of strength training. And I know we both talked about this before, about how like when we found weightlifting and strength training, it was a big shift for us in both of our relationships with exercise and with movement.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, definitely.

Sadie Simpson:

And that's really the key here. Joyful movement- again, it could be gentle movement, and might not be. It could be running, it could be weightlifting. It's not the impact level that counts. It's not how strenuous or how unstrenuous the movement is. It's how you feel about your movement choices, and what makes you feel better physically, and mentally, and emotionally, instead of feeling worse.

Naomi Katz:

We've sort of covered a lot of mindset barriers to our relationship with movement. And that's super important. But equally, or maybe even more importantly, there's a lot of tangible barriers that people might come up against in terms of their relationship with movement. So like, for one, time is a barrier. You know, we don't actually all have the same 24 hours, contrary to what toxic positivity, like fitness, diet culture wants us to believe. You know, somebody who's got child care has a different 24 hours than somebody who doesn't. Somebody who works at one job has a different 24 hours than somebody who works three jobs. Like it's just- somebody who has a gym in their house has a different 24 hours than somebody who has to commute to somewhere to work out. Like it's just- it's all- there's a lot of differences in the kind of time that we have. In full transparency, I used to be a big proponent of that like language shift away from- where like, instead of saying, I don't have time for that, we say, that's not a priority for me right now. And I do think that that can still be a helpful shift in some instances. You know, it is important to remember that we have the right to set our own priorities, like without guilt and without shame. But I also think that, when that advice is given as a blanket recommendation, we also bypass a lot of like, real systemic barriers that go way beyond priorities and choices. This is definitely one of those places where like, it's not just about like, oh, movement wasn't a priority for me. Like sometimes it's not actually something that can even be a choice for you. Money is a barrier. And you know, okay, obviously, we can think of things like fitness classes, or gym memberships, and stuff like that. But like when you think about it- is any movement practice actually free? You know, there's a lot of less obvious costs involved in working out. Things like sneakers, and workout clothes, and transportation, and child care. Food to meet added energy demands of exercising. Laundry, because you have more dirty clothes because you're exercising. Doctor's visits, if you need like health care clearance before starting an exercise program, or if you happen to injure yourself while you're exercising. Even for home workouts- like do you have a computer, or a video player, or a phone to access online stuff? Do you have an internet connection? Like, for that matter, the rent or mortgage for a home that has room for exercise. Like there's so many costs that we don't even really think about when we're talking about what the financial cost of movement and exercise is. And so recognizing that that can be a barrier, in ways far beyond oh, I can't afford a personal trainer, is really, really important in this conversation, too.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes. And some of those things- man, I hadn't even like considered some of these things- like laundry and- and that type of thing. But it is so true. Yeah. Like there's a lot of hidden costs there that we just do not even consider.

Naomi Katz:

Absolutely. Location can be a barrier. So like, how far are you from a gym, or like personal trainer, or something like that? Are you in a place that has sidewalks, or parks, or anything like that? That's something that I never really thought about until I lived for a year and a half in like a little farmhouse in a very rural area on like, a twisty, windy logging road. And I was 30 to 45 minutes from a gym. And like, I was very fortunate that I had the privilege of having the time for that commute, but a lot of people don't. So like the location there could have been a really significant barrier to like- to movement for me. And there's like some location based things even beyond just like access to a place to to do movement or exercise. So like, you know, there's location barriers to finding professionals and spaces that align with our values. You know, like, are they Health at Every Size aligned? Are they politically aligned? Are you going to feel comfortable there? You know, you're gonna find a lot more access to like progressive, and inclusive, and intersectional spaces in, say, New York City than in like, you know, rural Alabama, or something like that. You know, I- again, like on a personal note, I belonged to a gym in a more red area than where I am now and where I've been historically, and it was 2016, and I can remember going to the gym and seeing MAGA hats, and like Fox News was on the TV. And like, there was a period of time there were like, I didn't want to go to the gym, because I felt really uncomfortable with what was going on there. And again, to some extent, that's a location based thing, and that's worth looking at. Access can be a barrier. So like, even if you have all those other things under control, there might be systemic access issues that prevent us from being able to pursue movement and exercise. So that can be things like finding clothing in your size, that you like, and that is affordable. It can also be finding equipment that works for your body. So a lot of pieces of equipment have weight limits. In some cases, there might be brands that make versions with higher weight limits, but in a lot of cases there aren't. And like, even if there are brands that make those versions, that doesn't mean that the place you have access to is going to have the higher weight capacity versions of those things, and there's a very high likelihood that they don't, in most cases. So again, access is something to consider. Safety can be a barrier that I think we don't talk about very often. So like, there's no way for movement to feel joyful if you don't feel safe. And that includes safety on like a physical, emotional, and mental level. So you know, yes, we're talking about like well lit outdoor areas, or an area where you don't have to worry too much about violent crime, if you're like out for a walk somewhere or something. We're also talking about things like strong anti harassment policies at a gym, or gender affirming locker room and restroom policies, or, you know, enforcement of masks, and vaccines, and stuff within your gym space. So, you know, safety on all of these levels can- can be really important. And lastly- this is something that's super interesting- joy itself, as a concept, can be a barrier to movement. So Linda G. of the Fluffy Kitten Party blog, and she is @littlewingedpotatoes on Instagram- and we will link to both of these things in the show notes. Linda has spoken about how inaccessible the concept of joyful movement is to folks with chronic illness, chronic pain, or like other disabilities. And this is an unbelievably important perspective, because, as she says, the folks who do suffer from these conditions still benefit from movement, as do their conditions, in a lot of cases. So instead of like glorifying this idea of like lovely, soothing, and joyful movement as like the be all end all goal for everyone, Linda suggests that a more approachable way to frame this is tolerable movement. Sadie and I have discussed on this podcast a million times at this point that black and white thinking is like the hallmark of diet culture, and this belief that all movement has to be joyful is kind of just as damaging, and acts just as much of an obstacle, as believing that all movement has to be grueling and brutal. It's just a different form of perfectionism and black and white thinking. When we allow movement to just be tolerable, so that we can just get it done and reap the benefits, that can be like a way to let go of that perfectionism. And it's also a way to really be able to show our bodies the respect that they deserve, regardless of their physical condition.

Sadie Simpson:

That is a lot of barriers.

Naomi Katz:

I know.

Sadie Simpson:

With very few solutions. And a lot of these barriers require systemic change to solve these- like to solve the actual problem. These are not based on our personal choices. And it's important for us to widen our lens and be aware of these high level barriers. And it's also important that we do acknowledge when those barriers can't be solved by unpacking our own feelings about something. Because, I mean, there's a lot of things, as you just mentioned, that are out of reach. And they're hard to literally overcome for a lot of people, due to just systemic issues that are far beyond individual capacity to just eliminate, like, by saying, okay, I'm going to start exercising now.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, and it's like- like, it doesn't matter how much work you do on healing your own relationship with movement, if you're just gonna butt up against any of those barriers. Like then- like you can do all the personal work you want, but if things don't shift on a systemic level, it's not going to help.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. And we'll continue talking about movement- whether it's joyful movement, practical movement, tolerable movement, exercise- we'll have more conversations about this throughout future episodes of this podcast, I'm sure. And if there are any group fitness instructors, personal trainers, gym managers, or other people who are involved in working in an exercise, or movement, or fitness setting, and you're really into having deeper conversations about these topics, be sure to check out Shame Free Fitness. This is my continuing education program for fitness professionals, and one of the things that we really talk about a lot are cues and phrases to eliminate from fitness vocabulary, and all of these bigger systems that impact the way people perceive fitness, the way they may not have access to fitness, and the way fitness professionals can kind of help break down some of those barriers. And I'll be opening enrollment for that again, early 2022. So look out for that pretty soon.

Naomi Katz:

That's awesome. That's such a great way to actively do something about some of these barriers.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, like, again, it's hard to break down these barriers as individuals but, man, like if we can kind of rise up as an industry- like holy crap, we could really like do some stuff. But takes a lot of work. So, it's time to get started.

Naomi Katz:

It does. But I love that you're doing it. That's awesome.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah. So, let's move on. Let's start talking about some gentle nutrition, because I know this is what everyone is just eager and excited to hear all about. So principle 10 of Intuitive Eating is titled Honor Your Health with Gentle Nutrition. But, similar to this whole past conversation about exercise and movement, in order to take diet culture out of nutrition, we need to have already cultivated attunement to our body, and we need to have already done this work to reclaim autonomy over our choices, and we have to have done the work to unpack and disconnect from diet culture, and respect our bodies. And all of these other principles we've been talking about for the last nine episodes are necessary to work through, in order to ensure that we can also make the practice of nutrition autonomous, and really based into attunement to our own bodies and our unique individual needs. And the goal of this principle is to be able to take the facts about nutritional content of foods, and then measure that against our actual life experiences, our experiences in our own bodies. And this is not about following rules. It's not about a prescriptive nutrition plan. It's about experimenting, and noticing how our bodies feel when we make certain choices. And ultimately, we're seeking to cultivate authentic health. And we'll explore that in just a little bit. But yeah, gentle nutrition time.

Naomi Katz:

So one of the big things to keep in mind when we're going down this path of gentle nutrition, is to remember that there is no such thing as perfect nutrition. We've talked about where perfectionism pops up in all these other principles, and it is a big one here. But perfect nutrition is a diet culture myth, just like a perfect body. And it leads to that same kind of guilt, and shame, and sense of failure that a quest for a perfect body leads to. You know, the truth is that health and nutrition don't shift with every meal, or even with every day. These are things that are much better viewed on a long timeline. And the truth is when we work on attuning our bodies with all the other principles, a lot of the time the nutrition part sorts itself out, especially because most of us average folks really don't need to be doing anything all that complicated with our nutrition. Like yes, an elite athlete probably has different needs that might need more attention. Someone with a medical condition that requires dietary intervention might need more attention. But like the vast majority of us are going to be totally fine with just eating enough, and making choices based on food preferences and how things actually feel in our bodies.

Sadie Simpson:

Thank you for saying that. I feel like we don't say that out loud enough. Like, yeah, we're gonna be fine. We don't have to overthink this. And after years of dieting and following food plans, it's really hard to recognize that. So we should say that to ourselves and to other people all the time.

Naomi Katz:

Totally.

Sadie Simpson:

And also, nutrition is a privilege. Prioritizing nutrition requires access, and money, and time, among a lot of other things. It is not just a matter of personal responsibility, like we often assume for it to be, but it is the result of many systemic inequities and variables. And nutrition, like health, is not a moral obligation. We're not better people when we eat nutrient dense foods, and we don't owe the pursuit of nutrition to anyone.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, I think that's another thing that's just so important to just say out loud.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah.

Naomi Katz:

Like, it's actually fine if you don't give a shit about your nutrition.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

It's also not your fault if you don't have access to nutrient dense food as much as you'd like, or at all, or any of those things. Like these are not things that are 100% in our control, nor do they have to be priorities for us.

Sadie Simpson:

Exactly.

Naomi Katz:

So we've talked before about how diet culture is getting sneakier and sneakier, and we've talked about sort of the concept of the wellness diet, as, you know, the the term that was coined by Christy Harrison. And conversations about nutrition- so like this principle- are where the wellness diet tends to raise its ugly head again. Um, you know, the wellness diet- it claims to not be about body size or weight loss. It, you know, talks a lot about health and, obviously, wellness, and uses a lot of marketing around things that are clean, and organic, and natural. You get a lot of advice about healing everything from our gut, to our skin, to our hormones, to our pain, and like basically everything in between. It's like- it's like, oh, my god, did you know you could cure everything with nutrition?

Sadie Simpson:

Just so you know, food is medicine.

Naomi Katz:

Food is medicine. Yes. That's basically the slogan for the wellness diet.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes.

Naomi Katz:

And it comes with like all kinds of food rules that pretend to be about nutrition, but very often, like measures success through body size. Unfortunately, if we haven't fully internalize the work from the other Intuitive Eating principles, it's like really easy for gentle nutrition to become the wellness diet. It is so easy to get caught up in like micromanaging our health by micromanaging our food intake. And it's really, really easy to fall back into like following instructions that put a hierarchy on body size. We're gonna dig much deeper into how we can make autonomous food choices in a little bit, but for now, like I tend to like- when- when I first start working with folks on this concept of gentle nutrition, I think it's really important to like ask ourselves some questions about like, why we want to focus on nutrition in the first place. So like, what are we hoping to accomplish by doing this? What changes do we want to see? What effect do we think that a focus on nutrition is going to have on our lives? And like, is there something specific that's making us think that our current nutrition is lacking? Because if we can't answer those questions, and especially if we can't answer them with any kind of like specificity, then like, maybe we don't really need to be focusing on honing our nutrition right now at all.

Sadie Simpson:

One of the ways we can avoid nutrition pitfalls, is by shifting our pursuit of weight loss, or this ideal perfect health, into something instead called authentic health. And we just mentioned this a few minutes ago, but authentic health is a term that we use within the Intuitive Eating framework that refers to this dynamic integration of inner attunement and external health values. And the inner attunement part is made up of all of the messages from our bodies that we are connected to through interoceptive awareness. So this includes physical, mental, and emotional messages, and just things that we've got going on personally. And the external values might include scientific research, you know, consensus and recommendations from medical professionals, philosophical preferences, like sustainable agriculture, or animal rights, and that type of thing. And when we begin to integrate both the internal and external, we end up with a definition that's unique to us as individuals, and it's based more in autonomous choices, rather than the prescriptive things we see with nutrition, literally everywhere. Like there is no one size fits all definition of nutrition. Everybody's definition is going to be unique to them. And this means is that we don't have to let external recommendations or advice bypass or overrule our own internal cues, or our lived experiences, or just our own basic needs, and our own preferences.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about some of those external factors that we might take into consideration when we're, you know, starting to make these decisions for ourselves. And so external factors can be conversations with friends, and family, or like acquaintances. It can be information provided by health coaches, or like other wellness professionals. It can be media coverage of nutrition studies. It can be recommendations from government agencies- so like the USDA or something like that. Recommendations from our own medical providers. Or actual peer reviewed scientific papers- like primary source papers, like that. Obviously, some of these examples are going to be more scientifically rigorous or reliable than others, and that's a really important thing to keep in mind when we're deciding how much weight we want to give these external sources of information in our own decision making process. But, like having said that, it's also really important to remember that even scientific studies are conducted by humans with biases, and that the populations they're conducted on may or may not reflect your intersectional identities. So what that means is that, even if a scientific study appears to be well validated, and all of that stuff, that doesn't mean it's recommendations are going to be right for you, given your lived experiences, your needs, your preferences, and all the other things that are very unique and specific to you as a human. So that's why it's really important to weigh even the most scientifically valid studies against the internal factors that are unique to you.

Sadie Simpson:

Yes, and just a quick side note, Food Babe is not a primary source.

Naomi Katz:

Oh my god, are we gonna do a Food Babe rant? I am so ready for a Food Babe rant.

Sadie Simpson:

Do not listen to Food Babe, people.

Naomi Katz:

There is- I actually blocked them- but there was somebody on Instagram for a little while who kept tagging me in Food Babe posts.

Sadie Simpson:

Oh god.

Naomi Katz:

And being like, shouldn't Intuitive Eating address this? And I was just like, no. We don't have to address like fake news. That doesn't have to be part of our job as Intuitive Eating professionals.

Sadie Simpson:

Oh my god. So let's shift from the external factors, and start talking about some of the internal factors. When we stop thinking of health and nutrition as things that we are required to focus on, this gives us the opportunity to make morally neutral choices about what health and nutrition information we actually want to apply in our own lives. Because even if it's scientifically true that eating more vegetables can improve certain health markers, you still get to be the one to choose whether you want to eat those vegetables, or whether you even care about those health markers at all. And whatever choice you make, it doesn't change your value as a human. And I think that's so important to continue to recognize. So practically speaking, what this means is that rather than taking somebody else's rules about what macro breakdown you should be following, for example, instead, you're going to tune into your body, and start paying attention to what you need for energy levels, and satiety, and your satisfaction when you eat different amounts of things, like carbs, or fat grams, or protein, and just different nutrient aspects. And another example might be, rather than cutting out gluten because diet culture tells us that gluten is bad, or a health coach tells us that it will cure all of our problems, we're going to start paying attention to what happens to us individually when we eat certain foods- again, gluten is just an example, but this could be fill in the blank with any other food- how foods might affect our digestion, or our skin, or hormones, or- or whatever, just starting to tune in, and pay attention to what's happening to our bodies and within our bodies, when we eat certain things. So, long story short, if you're just following these outside rules, you're not giving yourself the opportunity to essentially like tune in and listen to how your body is feeling and reacting to different foods in different ways. Instead, we're taking some of the external information and combining that with our own values and our own experiences and making choices and decisions based on that.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, I also- so I love what you said about how, like just because something is scientifically true doesn't mean that you have to make the choice- those choices, like if you don't like them, or if you don't care about them. I also think that like, just because something scientifically true, like it doesn't matter if you don't have access to the things that they're talking about. You just- there's so much stuff where it's like, just because there's a scientific study that says something doesn't mean that that's now the rule that has to apply to you. So, before we get into the specifics of like making food choices, I think it's important to discuss something that we said earlier a little more in depth, and that's that a lot of the times when we get to this point, the nutrition has sorted itself out already, like at least enough to align with our definition of authentic health. You know, very often, as we've been cultivating our attunement with our bodies through the other principles, we actually have already started making choices about foods that make us feel good physically, and mentally, and emotionally. You know, were honoring our hunger, which means making food choices that are going to sustain us. We're feeling our fullness, which means like understanding what makes us feel comfortable. We've discovered the satisfaction factor, which means that we're eating things that we like, and not eating things that we don't like. And, maybe most importantly, we've made peace with food, which means, you know, navigating that pendulum swing from Dietland to Donutland. And by now, a lot of times, we've settled into that area of Discernment that we've talked about. And really, when you think about it, this practice of gentle nutrition is kind of synonymous with that concept of Discernment on the pendulum. You know, and yes, we might still swing slightly up to one side or the other. But it's likely that by the time we're ready to discuss gentle nutrition, we're probably already spending most of our time in that center, like bottom part of the pendulum, that Discernment place, and we're kind of already practicing gentle nutrition. In practice, what that might mean is like, yeah, sometimes you might go through periods where you eat more candy, or whatever, than usual. But after a while, like you notice that you're craving something with more nutrients, like a salad or something like that. And you're not switching from candy to salad because somebody told you that you had to. Like you're not punishing yourself for the candy, you're not cutting out candy altogether, you're not choosing like the most low calorie, or low carb, or low fat salad possible to make sure that you're making up for the candy. You're just like noticing that you'd rather have a salad, and you're choosing something that's going to be satisfying and delicious for your salad. And maybe you're even still- like still having a piece of candy for dessert. You know, like it's just- it's just very well rounded and slight shifts in how we deal with this stuff. So all that to say, if you're already finding yourself doing these things, even without putting a ton of focus on them, that's pretty common, and like you're probably already doing the gentle nutrition and authentic health stuff.

Sadie Simpson:

So with all of that, it's common to need a little bit more guidance here. And we'll hit on a couple of highlights, but if you're really interested in digging more into this idea of gentle nutrition, or any of these other concepts with Intuitive Eating, that would be the perfect opportunity to do some of that work within Naomi's Nourish & Bloom program. We both offer one on one Intuitive Eating coaching, and we can really navigate some of these nuances together with you as an individual. Because again, even though this stuff isn't prescriptive- like we're talking about the anti prescription- there's still a lot of things that have to be worked on individually, like outside of the scope of this podcast. So those resources are available to you, if you are interested in doing more individualized work. But one thing that we could talk about is the idea of body food choice congruence. And this is the technical term for awareness of how eating particular foods makes your body feel. And when it works in conjunction with our awareness of which foods bring us pleasure, it's kind of the key to general nutrition. And we've talked about this before, but eating is a form of self care. And, you know, in the past, we've primarily framed that concept in terms of pleasure, and emotional responses, and just basic sustenance. But here we have the opportunity to incorporate eating into our physical self care as well. So for instance, when we're making food choices, it can be really helpful to ask ourselves some specific questions. Like how did my body feel after eating this food? Did I like this feeling? Would I choose to feel this way again? Were there any uncomfortable physical effects from eating this food, like gas, or stomachache, or a headache, or just any other kind of symptom that doesn't feel great, and do I want to repeat that distress? And did I feel more or less energy after eating a specific food? Did I feel satiety? How long did this food keep me satisfied? And I think when we're asking ourselves these questions, it's important to recognize that, even if we're asking ourselves something like were there any uncomfortable physical effects from eating this food, if we choose to eat a food again in the future that we already know gives us some negative physical effects, like, I think that's okay. But I think doing this work kind of gives us that awareness to be able to make an informed decision about what we eat. And just kind of recognizing that, like, say you have a low tolerance for dairy, but you really, really, really love like real honest to god ice cream, like recognizing that, well, if I eat this ice cream, I might have some uncomfortable digestive things going on, but like, it's kind of worth it to me to eat this ice cream right now, so I don't care. And I think this whole idea of gentle nutrition is all about giving ourselves like the power, and the choice, and autonomy just to make whatever the heck decision we feel like we want to make in the moment.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, like with anything, it's always about like just turning off the autopilot, and being present and aware of our- and mindful of our decisions. That's all- like making them actual decisions instead of just autopilot. So the other thing when we're talking about gentle nutrition that is an interesting way of framing nutrition within Intuitive Eating, that we don't necessarily see in other contexts a lot, is that one of the most overlooked factors in like the health and nutrition of our food is variety. So like the actual variety of foods that we eat impacts our nutrition pretty significantly. And notably, Intuitive Eaters have been shown in studies to eat a wider variety of foods than people who are not Intuitive Eaters. And that totally makes sense when you think about it. Because in diet culture, you're following food rules. And food rules put everything into two categories- the foods that we consider acceptable diet foods, and the foods that we consider off limits junk food- and like both of those sides can often result in restricting the kinds of food that we eat. So like, put simply, the fewer rules and limitations we have on the foods we eat, the more variety we have in our food consumption. And that means more opportunities to consume a wide spectrum of nutrients, like protein, and fat, and carbs, and fiber, and vitamins, and minerals, and phytochemicals, and so on. And so what that means is that if we're looking to make a shift in our nutrition, adding variety is actually a really great place to start. So like a lot of times, after a lifetime in diet culture, our first instinct when we're trying to change our nutritional intake is to cut out things we consider to be low on nutrients. But instead, like, we can maybe approach nutritional shifts by seeking to add variety, instead of restrict things. And that can make a really big difference in the long run. So like, ultimately, gentle nutrition, authentic health, joyful movement, all of these things are less about what we're choosing to eat or not eat, or do or not do with our bodies, and way, way more about why we're choosing to do these things.

Sadie Simpson:

And with that, our series on Intuitive Eating is complete. It's been a wild ride. But I'm really glad we were able to do this, because there's just so much to discuss as it is related to Intuitive Eating. There's a lot of misconceptions. There's a lot of nuance. And I'm glad we were able to have these conversations throughout this series to really break down some of the information in these principles, because there's a lot there. And I think it'll be beneficial to have this as a resource for any of you out there who are exploring Intuitive Eating, and if you need to go back to listen to any of these episodes- if there's you know, a specific principle or area that you might be struggling with, or you have questions with- these episodes in the series can be a great resource to tap into.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, I totally agree. So next week, we're going to shift gears for the new year, and we're going to be talking all about how we can avoid falling into that new year, new you, diet culture mindset.

Sadie Simpson:

Yay.

Naomi Katz:

Looking forward to that conversation.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, me too.

Naomi Katz:

We know this is a very long episode. So we're actually going to skip checking in on what's satisfying us this week. What's satisfying us is taking a break from checking in on what's satisfying us.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, there's a lot of pressure in that sometimes.

Naomi Katz:

Totally. So if you enjoyed this podcast, we would love to connect with you over on our Instagram page @satisfactionfactorpod. Be sure to comment, let us know what you think about the episode, share in your stories and with your friends, you know, DM us and let us know if you have any questions. We love to hear from you.

Sadie Simpson:

Yeah, and another simple thing you can do to support us, if you're listening in Apple podcasts, or iTunes, or anywhere else that has the option to leave any sort of feedback, leave us a rating, leave us a five star review, because this is what helps boost us up in those platforms and helps us reach more people. So if you like this message, and you want other people to hear it, that is how we can get it out into the world.

Naomi Katz:

Yeah, definitely. Happy New Year, everybody. We will see you in 2022.