214: Outside the Bubble: Why Our Outreach Isn’t Working & What We’ve Been Missing

We’re sharing something special this week. Right after our Women’s Ministry for Small Churches Conference, we’re bringing you the opening mainstage session - a conversation that pushes back on the pressure-filled, program-heavy version of outreach many of us were handed.

In this episode, we explore:

1. Why traditional outreach models often don’t work in small churches
2. How Jesus-centered outreach starts with people, not programs
3. What it looks like to live with our communities instead of trying to draw people in
4. Simple, relational ways to practice outreach without burnout or pressure

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Transcript

Laurie Graham: 0:01

Hey, welcome to the small church ministry podcast, where we help volunteers and ministry leaders experience less stress, more joy and greater impact as we share strategies that actually do work in smaller churches. I'm your host. Laurie Graham, let's dive in. La you. Hey, friend, welcome back to the small church ministry podcast. We just wrapped up our women's ministry for small churches conference, and honestly, it was one of those weekends that reminded us all why small churches and all those women holding it together matter so much more than people realize. So this week on the podcast, we're going to do something a little bit different. Instead of a regular episode, we are sharing the opening main stage session from the conference. We talked about outside the bubble and why our outreach isn't working and what we've been missing. Now this is the first of a three part series that happened at the conference, but this conversation is about outreach, but probably not in the way that you've heard it talked about lately, at least like less pressure, less programming, less we should be doing more more people, more presence and more real life. So if outreach has felt exhausting or awkward or completely disconnected from our communities around us these days. This one's for you. All right, let's get into it. Welcome to the women's ministry for small churches conference. I'm Laurie Graham joining me on screen are Shanika and Charmaine, and they are going to be co hosting all day long, so you will see them moderating and speaking, but also on the main stage with us as well. We're going to introduce ourselves just very, very briefly as we get started, mostly to give you time to introduce yourselves in the chat. So let us know where you're from. And we also would love to know how many conferences of ours that you have been to. So please pop that in the chat. And Shane, could you just want to do a quick where you're from, what you're doing today, and maybe how you found small church ministry?

Shineka Dixon: 2:04

Sure, so shaneka Dixon, I am from Virginia. I found small church ministry during covid. I was just looking for something to be a part of, something that was diverse, and when I came across small church ministry. I saw the diversity and the intentionality for diversity, and I jumped in so and I was supposed to say something else. I don't remember

Laurie Graham: 2:30

what you're doing today. Oh, well,

Shineka Dixon: 2:34

I am moderating. I'm helping the host, and I am speaking. I'm doing a session, so several different things, enjoying myself, awesome.

Laurie Graham: 2:44

We've got South Dakota, another Niagara, Ontario. We've got Colorado, we've got Florida, we've got Missouri. We've got, like, coast to coast in the house right now, a lot of first time attendees and a bunch of repeat attendees. So it's just such a great mix today. We're so happy you're here. If we had time, I'd call you all up by name. And Diana, who's in Marana, she lives like 20 minutes from me, we're going to set up a coffee date. So there you go. Charmaine, do you want to tell everybody where you're from, what you're doing today, and how you found us?

Charmaine Stulp: 3:12

Sure thing, I am from the Niagara area of Ontario Canada. I found us because a friend Reno, who is a long time small church ministry speaker, moderator, key leader, she had said to me for at least a year, maybe more, you need to get involved with small church ministry. You need to meet Laurie. And I actually, like put her off for a while. I'm so sad. I did,

Laurie Graham: 3:42

you did? I kept going, Charmaine keeps telling. I mean, Reno kept telling me, I had to meet Charmaine. And charmaine's like, literally ghosting me.

Charmaine Stulp: 3:50

I just, I slowly dropped here. Here I am. And I'm so glad I'm here. And so, yeah, I'm doing this. I'm helping a little on, on some of these main stage things. I'm moderating. I'm speaking. Yeah, this is me awesome.

Laurie Graham: 4:08

And if I haven't met you all before, my name is Laurie Graham. I live in Tucson, Arizona currently, and I run this thing like with so much help and so many volunteers and so many hearts and everything. And if those of you, those of you who are finding us just through the conference, a lot of people come into the conference and there's like this excitement, but they think it's a one and done, and then afterwards, they're like, oh my gosh, there's more. You guys, the conferences are a small part of what we do for and with people in small churches, we have a podcast, we have an email list, we have a website, we have resources, we have more conferences than this during the year, so many different things, and so please hang out with us like you're not going to miss us. We're going to be around you'll probably even meet some of us in person at some point or another. I just know it was so fun when de schnouts, I believe. Met Barbara Atchison a couple, a couple years ago, even they're like 15 minutes away. And so not just the community, but the the heart and the hope and the way that we speak into small churches is so beautiful because we're in small churches. And quite honestly, small church ministry isn't less, but it's very, very different than larger churches. Many of us have been in larger churches. We've come from larger churches. And if that's you, and you got transported to a small church, you're like, This feels alien, like the structure is different. The dynamics are different. The power dynamics are different. The relationships are different. The effective ministry is different. Small church ministry is different, but it is not less. In fact, those of us around here, we actually believe that small church ministry is quite amazing and the way that Jesus did ministry. And so whether you are in a smaller church, a bigger church, a tiny, tiny church, a home church, whether you are the, you know, one satellite of a bigger church, you're welcome here like we are in this together, and we are learning how to do ministry like Jesus together and to carry the light that he's put in us into our space, wherever we are. So we are so excited to be here with you today. Charmaine, do you want to open us up?

Charmaine Stulp: 6:11

I'd love to. So I invite you wherever you are right now to relax your jaw. You to relax your shoulders, soften your belly. Often. We're like, just soften it, let it go. I invite you to notice your breath, just notice it, is it relaxed? Is it fast and stressful and tight? Is it tired? Now I invite you to sigh. I ah, and notice that, because often there is an emotion tied to your sigh. Is it contentment? Is it frustration or weariness? Just notice it no judgment, no shame. And dear God, we bring our tight JAWS or tense shoulders, our tight soft bellies, our muffin tops, our size our size of contentment, our size of discouragement, our size of feeling Not enough, our size of excitement and anticipation. God, we bring it all into this space. You are not surprised by any of it. We climb into the cleft that you provide today. We take shelter under your wing, and we ask God that our ears would be open to hear from you what it is that you want to speak to us today. We praise you. We love you in Jesus name, amen, amen.

Laurie Graham: 9:26

All right, we will see shaneka and Charmaine again at the end of this first session. I love what Emily put in the chat. She said, every step feels like another layer melting the stress away. And how often do we not even give ourselves like space to breathe or even to check in with our bodies and our spirits and our emotions, and we really believe that God works through all of it. If you've listened to the podcast at all, I've had a few podcast episodes on this. Definitely talk about it at several of our conferences. But in our modern church culture, we have intellectualized faith so much that we forget that God gave us our emotions, and he gave us our spirits and he gave us our size. And so we just invite you just to come into today. Like, I know we all have expectations, and some of us have high expectations and some of us have low expectations. Many people who find us say I had no idea free conference was actually going to give me something good, and they regret that they didn't invite their friends, right? Like, so you may be coming in with expectations of being interrupted all day, of having a stressful day, you may have already had tech issues. You may be coming in so expectant to receive something really specific. And so we're all coming in with expectations, and we also really try to encourage everybody to be open handed because or open hearted. Like, what could God give? Was today that we didn't even expect those of you who've been to our conferences before, usually it's it's different, it's bigger, it's a different direction. Like so many people will say, I thought it was going to be this, but it was this, and how God spoke to me. So all right, we'll talk a little more about how to navigate the platform just at the end, but let's get into outside the bubble, why our outreach isn't working and what we've been missing. You know, most of us, was gonna say, a lot of us, but I'm gonna say most of us have been doing outreach for years. Raise your hand. Like, if I could see you, I'd be like, raise your hand. Give it nod. And if we're honest, most of us are exhausted. It's exhausting. It doesn't seem to be working. Outreach today, compared to outreach 10 years ago or 20 years ago, it doesn't seem to be working. And I hear so many people blame the culture well, they don't want to know Jesus anymore. They're not open. Or we blame ourselves. We don't know what we're doing wrong, or we're inadequate, or God hasn't called us. Sometimes we blame the people who aren't coming themselves, like, Why aren't they coming? It is frustrating. It often feels like what we're doing doesn't actually connect to people anymore, which I would say it kind of doesn't, sorry to use the phrase, but it was the best phrase I could come up with as I was preparing this talk. Sometimes we feel like the whole world has gone to hell in a hand basket, right? Like the world doesn't want this, doesn't want Jesus, doesn't want something more. And I just want to say this is totally false. Humans have always, since the beginning of time, looked for more meaning. I know many people who don't know Jesus and don't believe there is an afterlife. They don't believe there's eternity, and it scares the heck out of them. They are fearful, they are anxious, and that's their belief system. But we all want to know there's something more to this life. Like I really believe the struggle that we have with outreach is not a culture issue. I don't think it's an issue with the culture out there. I think it's an issue with our modern church culture. We've kind of turned churches into places that have become really performative, more than just like simple Jesus presence places like when I think about how Jesus walked around the Earth, how he walked around the planet, and this, like doing outreach events and bringing people in, it did work for a while. There was a cultural pressure in decades previous, where people were expected or it was even considered like good in your community. If you were upstanding, you were part of a church, right? And it's not so much today. But if you feel like your church is dying or outreach isn't working, or you can't get the young people to come in, or it's harder to get everybody because they're so busy. Like, how many of us have said that people are just too busy to come to church? I think God is in the middle of this whole shakeup. Of all the things I just mentioned that we kind of look at as though they're signs of of death, or they're signs of of things going bad. I think God is totally in it. Like, I think these are signs of like, God being at work, shaking things up. And when I think about outreach, I really believe our motives, for the most part, are great. Like, we want to share with other people what we've found, the hope that we have found the joy, that we have found the support, the comfort in Jesus, yes, but also in our church communities, like, we're like, why don't people want that? I think our motives are good, but something is off, something's wrong, something's not connecting, and that's what we're going to talk about today. Again, I don't believe it's because we've been doing outreach badly, but I think we've been taught some wrong things. And I want to say this, maybe outreach efforts aren't failing because people don't care or people are inadequate. Maybe they're failing because we've defined it wrong. Maybe we're actually missing something. Before I get too deep into this particular talk. I just want to give a quick overview of today's main stages. Somebody yesterday had asked at the kickoff event, is the outreach session the same? All three sessions? Is it a repeat? It's not. These are like three parts of the same conversation, but going in different directions. So this morning, right now, we're talking about some disruption, about naming, why outreach hasn't been working. In the second session, we're going to talk about kind of reclaiming, like re owning, and what this looks like in our actual everyday life. So we're going to get to practical things. And the third session today, on the third main stage, we're going to talk about culture, not the culture out there around us, but our church culture, because individual change is powerful. Like we pray that everyone leaves this day transformed. We always do like I don't want to be the same at the end of today that I came in as I really don't individual change and transformation is so powerful. But our church community, that church culture, that. That determines how much it spreads or how impactful it is. It's so amazing. So we're going to talk about that. Okay, I want to hear where you guys are at today with the word outreach. So when you hear the word outreach, what is the first thing that comes to mind? Just drop it in the chat. This doesn't have to be well thought out. It can just be off the top of your head. What comes to mind when you hear the word outreach, just gut reaction. What were you taught that outreach meant? How do you define successful outreach? Or what picture pops into your head when you think of the word outreach? Okay, I'm going to read some of the comments in the chat. For those of you watching a replay or listening later, this is what's coming up in the chat. Oh my gosh. This is so good, by the way, if you're here live, look through the chat. It's amazing. This is what popped into mind when people heard the word outreach, overwhelmed an event, potential people, people being too busy helping in the community. Evangelism, scary, not working, building community, community, sharing the gospel, visitations, evangelism, tradition, non churched actions, food, loving people, where they are, helping others, reaching people, community, conflicting or connecting with community, bringing them in, searching for lost souls. So beautiful. Back to school. Bash Sherry said, look through, because you're going to see a lot of commonalities, and you're also going to see also some different ones as well, that you're like, Oh, that's interesting, that that is their view of community or of outreach, and nothing in here is surprising. We're going to talk about a lot of it. You're not alone in any of these things, whether they're negative, positive, neutral, because this is what most of us have been taught, that outreach means outreach means bringing people into church. I know a lot of people are talking about relational in here. We've been doing small church ministry for years now, connecting with 1000s of churches everywhere. When people feel like their outreach events aren't working, how do we know our outreach events aren't working? Drop it in the chat like, how do you know your outreach events were successful? Because almost always it's did people come back? So many churches are stopping doing VBS now. Now I'm not married to VBS. I think there's a lot of cool summer programs we can do that reach our community and reach our kids. But a lot of churches are dropping VBS because those families don't come back to church. That hits me hard, because what has outreach looked like in your own church, like, if you take it past like our definition of outreach, and I would love to hear some more comments in the chat right now. What does outreach look like in your church, like in your church, in your institution, what is happening in your outreach committee or in your outreach ministry, it may be nothing, or it may be some cool, different ministry areas. Maybe there's a benevolence fund that is considered part of your outreach. But when we start defining outreach in the church, oftentimes we think outreach would work better if we had more money or more engine, more energy, or more volunteers or more time. It's hard to admit that that our view of outreach has kind of shifted, maybe past where Jesus was, and none of this makes anything shallow. Please hear me. I'm not saying events are wrong. I'm not saying outreach events are wrong. I'm not saying helping the homeless is wrong or the unhoused. But as we talk about outreach and our definition, I just want you to think of all the things, all the words that came up, like, how does all that sit with us. How is success measured in outreach? Because when it's measured by people coming back or by people responding, what does that do to us, if our outreach success efforts are are measured by people responding, by how they respond. What does that mean to you? Like, how does that sit so many times? I talk to pastors all the times too, and I know most of us in here are volunteers. Maybe our ministry leader, maybe you are paid in women's ministry. Maybe we have some pastors in here, but I'm going to tell you, pastors oftentimes feel unsuccessful because they are not able to grow their church, or this event didn't work because people didn't come. You guys. Was Jesus successful? Was Jesus successful? He talked a. 5000 on a hillside, which is really more like 10 or 20,000 how many followed him? This is why I really think we need to look at Jesus when we think of what outreach is, because we've made church and we've made success in church different than I really believe we're called to, please hear me. I love the church. I wouldn't be talking to small churches if I did not love the church. I believe that the church is an instrument created by God to be the church on the planet like I believe that fully I love the church. And I think we've gotten a few things a little bit off. So I want to talk about the bubble, the church bubble, because here's the truth, and I see it. You see it. It's not shocking, but you can be deeply involved in church and still be incredibly disconnected from your community. I'm just going to say it again, you can be deeply involved in church and still be incredibly disconnected from your community. In fact, some people pride themselves on that. I was talking to somebody just a couple months ago in a social setting. They were part of a church that has a little bit of a different theology than my church does, which we don't get into here because we're all interdenominational. But this person was talking about purging people out of his life who weren't part of like, you know, moving forward with Jesus. And this person literally has no friends outside the church on purpose, like acquaintances, yes, but no friends outside the church on purpose, because they believe that's what it should be. And it's interesting. So let's just keep talking about that. If I just stepped on a toe, hang with me. Hang with me. We will kind of unpack that. But the truth is, is that we can be busy every night of the week, every night of the week, with church and church programs and church events, and not have a single meaningful relationship. Catch that meaningful, a single meaningful relationship with somebody who doesn't already believe what we believe. I have to say that again, because it is so sad to me, we can be deeply involved in our churches and busy every night of the week and working for Jesus, and not have a single meaningful relationship with somebody who doesn't already believe what we believe. I was talking to a pastor a couple months ago, and they said this to me, and it was so it was so comforting to me and meaningful, because they put into words what I hadn't put into words for myself before. This pastor said, you know, I have always, I really believe that God has called me, and I deeply value having relationships with people who are different than me. So this is part of my personal heartbeat. I really value having close, meaningful relationships with people who are different from me. And I also believe that Jesus modeled that. I totally believe that Jesus modeled that. So let's talk about how connected each of us feels to people in our community who aren't part of our church. Now we're not talking about shame or blame here. I just like, let's do a little audit of ourselves. Like, how do you how connected do you feel to people in your community so outside your church, who aren't part of your church. Do you have regular relationships outside the church bubble? Who do you interact with week after week, like on a regular basis, who doesn't already share your faith? And can I say, without an agenda to convert them? I'd like to add that without an agenda to convert them, because sometimes we make outreach into a project that's tricky is most of your relational energy inside the church spaces or outside of them. Where's your energy going? Your relational energy is most of it inside the church or outside. Now, I'm not saying it should be even I'm not saying putting any judgment on which way it should land. I'm just saying, let's be honest, this is information. We talk a lot in small church ministry about being present for the people in the room. So I had this great, this great experience this week, and one of my very close friends, like called off a church event to be present for somebody in need right in front of them. And I was so impressed by that, because so often we talk about ministering to who's in the room, like in small church ministry, we talk about doing it for the one. So if you're. In a Sunday school class, and one person comes. Don't be looking for who's not there. Like, I'm so stressed out that other people didn't come. Like, could we just be present for the one person who's in front of our face? That's what Jesus did. Now here comes the tie into the outreach talk today. I do believe we are called to be present for the person in front of us, for the person who's in the room with us, for the person we can look at like Jesus said to the man who was struggling with this whole like, how do I follow you, Lord? He looked at him and loved him. But can I just say this? We get to choose the room we're in. We can do this really well in our churches, I'm always present for the one who's in front of me. I teach well to one. I worship lead for a small church in my women's ministry. If one comes or two comes, I am present for those people in the room. But we get to pick the room. We get to pick if we work out with people in the community. We get to pick if we join a secular book club. We get to pick where we shop, where we hang out, where our friends are. We get to pick the room like, is that not so cool? And then my question right now is, what room did Jesus pick? Oops, little mic drop there. What room did Jesus pick? So I'm talking about the church bubble. I want to make sure we don't lose sense of this. I'm not saying we shouldn't have church community. This day is full of sessions about discipleship, about authentic community, about, yes, a little bit of outreach as well, about teaching. We have so many things happening today, but this session right now is about outreach. We get to pick the room we're in. So let me offer just a little bit of a different definition of outreach, keeping in mind that the church bubble is full of good people doing good things with good motives. I believe good motives, the church bubble is full of good people doing good things, but I would like to propose that maybe it insulates us from the very relationships where faith actually grows very differently. My faith, your faith, their faith, when we're insulated in the church bubble, my faith does not grow the same. My faith grows so differently when I'm with people outside the church bubble again, please hear me. I'm not saying we should never be in the church. I believe strongly in the church, in the community, in the growth in worship that happens in a church. But I'd like to offer a little different definition of outreach, instead of trying harder inside on a definition that isn't working, what if we change the definition? What if outreach isn't an event or a program or a growth strategy? What if outreach is choosing proximity, being close to people where there was distance. What if outreach is building relationships where there are none, and what if outreach was honest and without needing an agenda? Now I know a lot of you in here, when I said, What does outreach mean to you? We had a lot of relationship and a lot of community, so I'm not saying we are all totally off the mark here. But as a church culture, there's a lot of confusion. As a modern church culture, there's a lot of confusion. So what if outreach was choosing proximity where there was distance? I want to talk about this and building a relationship where there was none, and not having an agenda for it, it's hard not to have an agenda. If you were brought up with the heaviness that it's your responsibility to bring people to Jesus. Okay, we can talk about that at another time, but that's a hard thing to kind of release not having an agenda. But I don't believe Jesus met people with the agenda of follow me or I'm not going to invest in this relationship. Like, I didn't see that. I don't see that. If outreach is building relationships where there were none without an agenda, can we think about when that's happened to us? Like, let's take it outside the church context for just a minute. Can you think in your life, and I'd love to share some stories in here. Can you think in your life when somebody built a relationship with you where there wasn't one before and it didn't have to be built, okay? Like, where it was a little unusual, or they stepped into a different level of a relationship? Up with you, somebody noticed you when there was distance. So I don't necessarily mean physical distance. Could be emotional distance. It could even be like hierarchical distance, which I'm going to share one of those with you, because I just popped one, just popped into my head, somebody who noticed you, somebody who showed up for you, somebody who welcomed you, went out of their way, and I'd like to say quietly and consistency, consistently, whether or not you had a great response, who did that for you? Who did that for you? Okay, for me, I just had a couple people pop to mind. I would love to know, like, if you have somebody pop into mind, just drop a name or an initial in the chat, and like, just a brief little sentence of what time period that was, or what that was in your life. So for me, one of those was John gibe. I talked about him my story. You may have heard me mention him before. I don't think he knows I talk about him, but he was a college professor. I met him in a youth ministry class. I was working more than full time outside of class. I only went to class when I had to, and I sat in the back. Wore sweats and I actually had a bandana in my hair, like I didn't care about class. I sat in the back, whatever, and he consistently reached out. He saw me. He said, brilliant. He had conversations with me. He did not have to do that. There was a distance that, honestly, I had created more than he did. I was not responding to him for quite a long time, quietly and consistent, consistently. He left me comments on my papers. He said, Hey, why don't you drop my office? He is a man who changed my life. He created a relationship where there was none, where he didn't have to quietly and consistently. And I honestly don't believe he had an agenda. I don't believe he knew at all what God was going to do in my life. Being just dropped in the elementary principal. That's somebody who built a relationship with her where there was none. I also had a there was an art teacher at a studio, and I went to the studio, to this art studio when I was in a really hard time in my life. But a normal Art Studio, you would just go in and use the stuff. The owner of the art studio wouldn't necessarily build a relationship with you. She saw me. She was so caring. She would make me tea quietly. She ever pushed me into anything, but she like bridged a gap that would be very natural to have. So who has made a difference in your life by building a relationship in your life? Oh, I love what people are dropping into the chat so good. I think this is the thing we need to think about. And I feel, I think it feels really different when we think about outreach is building a relationship where there was none, because suddenly outreach doesn't feel like a project. It's not one more thing to manage. It's not something that only certain people are good at how often do we say that I'm not really gifted outreach kind of called here, and I get that. I totally get that, but I believe we are all called to connect. I believe we were created for connection. So outreach to you might look different than it does to me. Building relationships where there are none might look different to you. Some of you might know your grocery clerks by name. You might pray for them all the time. You might walk in and say, Hey, Bob, how's it going? Some of you might quietly take a meal to the elderly neighbor next door, consistently, because, you know, they don't have anybody in their life. I don't know when outreach became a project or became a committee or became an event, please hear me if your church has an outreach committee or an outreach event, that's totally fine, but I think on the personal edge, can we just define outreach a little more like Jesus, like when we actually look at Jesus, this makes so much sense. Jesus did not build a crowd strategy or a growth strategy, okay, he did not. In fact, his ministry absolutely changed the planet. But he died a failed we could say a failed church pastor. Today, that's what we would say. We celebrate pastors sometimes, you know, when they pass away, and we have this huge memorial service, and all these people come and all these people share what a difference that person made in their lives, you guys, that was not Jesus's ending of his life. He had very few followers, very few. Jesus didn't have a growth strategy. He didn't have a growth strategy. Now maybe he did have an agenda. Maybe his agenda was to do the will of the Father. He. When I say, like, we shouldn't have an agenda for relationships. The reason we have a relationship with this person who's outside the church, like sometimes we think it's to bring them to Jesus. What if our agenda was just to do the will of the Father, like loving people around us, because that was Jesus's agenda. If Jesus had an agenda to bring all these people, have them convert during his lifetime, grow a church. God's pretty powerful. God could probably do it. So why do we make our agenda seeing the result, instead of just building a relationship, instead of just loving people who are outside the church, Jesus didn't have a growth strategy. He built relationships and picture this. He built relationships at a table. He built relationships on one road. He built relationships with one interruption. He built relationships with one conversation at a well, I call that outreach, building a relationship where there was none I don't think Jesus ever asked this, and I always try to be careful when I say what I think of Jesus. And you know, because we have scripture, and obviously scripture is not like a minute by minute play of everything he ever said or ever did, but I don't think this is consistent with who he was, and I don't think he ever said, how do we get them into the synagogue? Can you imagine that who would Jesus even ask that to the people who were his closest followers weren't even in the synagogue? Jesus didn't say, how do we get them into the synagogue? How do we get them into the church? He went where people already were, and he stayed there. He stayed there. He didn't go and grab people and say, let's get to the synagogue. Emily said, yeah, he probably wanted to keep them out, yeah. Well, and I think some of us could, could really say that about our modern church culture. Now I'm not saying about your individual church. Please hear me. I know there are very there are a lot of healthy places and healthy sub places, but in our modern church culture, we are missing something. We are missing something. And I think this shake up is from God, and I think it's good. I think we've accidentally started measuring the wrong thing. I don't think we started off that way. Like I said, I think our motives are good. We want people to know the joy that we've found. We want people to feel the community and the support. For me, the church has so much of that, like I cry for people who aren't part of a community. Part of a community in a church. Now, if you've had bad community in churches, I have too. I've had a lot of church hurt as well. But I believe what God wants is so beautiful and so amazing, and I've also experienced that. And I will say this, if outreach requires people to come to us, that is not outreach, it's an invitation. Now invitation is okay. Invitation can be good, but what I want to say is that outreach is not invitation. It's not equal. Sometimes outreach involves invitation, sometimes invitation involves outreach, but it's not the same thing. If outreach requires people to come to us, it's not outreach. Again, invitation isn't bad, but it's not the same thing. And once you see that, it is really hard to unsee it. Once you see that outreach isn't the same as invitation, or once you see that outreach doesn't mean they have to respond, it's really hard to unsee it. So what shifts for you? And by the way, I am loving the chat. I if I had read it, this chat is so amazing. If you are here live, and you can go back and look through the chat, the stories, the hearts, the things people are sharing, so amazing, like you all could be on up here preaching with me. 100% so so good. But here's my next question for you, what shifts for you, if outreach is more about being present then bringing people in, we dropped some emotions at the beginning, or some of you dropped emotions. How do you feel about outreach? What's coming to mind for those of you who had like guilt or pressure or failing, you know we're failing at this or things like that. Like what shifts for you? If outreach is more about being present. Presence than bringing people in. What shifts for you, what feels lighter, maybe what feels challenging, because that could also feel very challenging, because it's calling us to to be present with people that are different than us. And if you don't have a little bit of something in your heart on that. Like, I think most of us do, like, there's that that can be challenging. It's a risk. But honestly, what's more doable is it more doable to be present with people or to get them to come in? Have you ever tried to change someone's mind? Like, can we just understand that's like, not even our job, let alone what a slow, crazy process that can be, loving people, being present, being present for people, that's a shift. Yeah, and this shift, this different way to define it, different way to think about outreach, is what we're going to build, be building on in the next sessions. Again, I'm asking the questions, are we measuring the wrong thing. How about this? Are we celebrating the wrong stories? Do our churches? Do our ministries sometimes celebrate numbers over this? One person who nobody's ever reached into their lives before. Like got met by somebody in our church, we hardly even share those stories for Pete's sakes, somebody yesterday at the kickoff event, actually, a couple people mentioned they were so excited that one of our talks was about welcoming families with disabilities with differences. Because, honestly, the church fails at that miserably most of the time. Because that's not a numbers game. That's a slow, deep life changing game, to be welcoming people, to make it easy for people to come into our places and even to go out to them, as we're talking about with outreach, building relationships. So let me just be clear about what this message is and what it's not. This is not a guilt talk. This is not a shame talk. If you've been doing it differently. That's not what this is about. This is all good news to me, and it's good news for the church. This is also not a slam on the modern church talk. This is good news because if outreach is really relational and not institutional, if it's about presence and not performance, if it's something that every single person in this room is already capable or listening later, if relationship is something we're already capable of, then we don't need permission. We don't need a title. We don't even need a program. There's two things we need. We need eyes open to see the people already around us, and we might need to choose to be in a different room, to be in a room outside the church bubble now and then on a regular basis. And again, we're going to talk more about that in the next session. We're going to talk about what outreach really looks like when it's personal, not church run, not performative, not super, super heavy. We're going to get really practical, like you'll be able, you'll actually be able to name like, one place in your life, where this already fits. We're not talking about doing one more thing. We're not talking about getting burnt out. We're not talking about trying harder. We're just talking about doing things a little differently. I'm going to ask Charmaine and Shanika to come back on the stage with me. What we're talking about is just real people, real places, real presence. It's something that all of us can do. And when we get into that second session, I really hope you'll be back for that. I know in a conference like this, a lot of times we're coming and going, okay, which is why the replays are really excellent if you're able to get them, because then you don't miss anything, and actually go back and revisit and go, What was that again? And you can share it with your ministry team, or with your ministry partner, or whoever is in your life that you're like, oh my gosh, I wish you had heard this. I want to talk about this with you, because it's not even about changing their mind. It's about like, let's discuss it. Let's go. Let's go there. Let's figure this out together. Okay, Charmaine and Shanika. Why do you think? Where did you go? Let's get some conversation going in the chat. In the last couple minutes we have before we go. I'm going to just leave for just a second to take a breath and look at the announcements and what's coming back, but I'll be back in. A second to join you back on the stage, yeah?

Shineka Dixon: 45:49

What a good talk, huh? So good yeah. I was looking at like, just thinking through the definition that Laurie gave on outreach and just changing the perspective, and I wrote down, what if outreach was building relationship where there was none, or in choosing proximity, being honest without an agenda? And I just thought, wow, that's that's a really good definition to consider when you're looking at outreach. And it really did. So I'm about to go somewhere else before I do what are your thoughts?

Charmaine Stulp: 46:28

Charmaine, no, I agree. And someone in the comments had said, like, if we go in with an agenda, whoever we're talking to is going to see through that pretty fast. And so just to let that go and come fully authentic. Yeah, what I'm thrilled to see in the chat is most people, I think, are feeling that this is a weight off of the shoulders rather than a weight on, which I'm so thrilled to see, because I think really easily we could pile on shame and say, I'm not doing any terrible person, but we're actually, I think most people are going, Oh, I just maybe have been thinking about in too big of a way. And I can zoom out a little, and, and, and actually, I can zoom out to then zoom in just to one or one conversation to make the moments count. I'm so thrilled just to see more of that grace rather than the shame.

Shineka Dixon: 47:34

That's right, that's right, and it's good to be able to like there so many of us have so much, and so we're always wanting to make sure. Well, not everyone, but a good number of us are always wanting to make sure that we're in the right place, that we're doing the right thing, and that we're doing it right, you know, but just to know that I don't have to add one more thing on, like I'm looking for something else that I'm not doing right, but that what I am doing, if I change my perspective, and I change the way I see it, that I actually am doing outreach, that I am, you know, reaching out to one. And it's not always the invitation. I think the invitation that really, that was what I was like. I need to think through that, you know, how much am I inviting versus I'm going out reaching, you know, I'm outreaching versus trying to bring people in. So yeah, that's good.

Charmaine Stulp: 48:30

Yeah, I love that. I think it can be really easy for the our busyness inside the church to be an excuse to not be outside the church. And again. This isn't shaming. This is just oh yeah, like, I do that. I totally have done that, and do that, and then need to remember and reevaluate that if I'm getting a coffee at Tim Horton's, for all of you Canadians, I can take just that extra moment to look into the person's eyes who is serving me, and ask them how their day is going. Or do I know the person? Am I going to the same gas station? This was taught to me years ago. One of my friends always goes to the same gas station so that the same worker pumps his gas every time, and he has gotten to know that that man this intentionality in something

Shineka Dixon: 49:35

simple, yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. So simple. And it's something that we do if we if we change the way we see things, you know. And I really loved, Laurie, I see you coming back on, but I loved how one of the things that you were asking or challenging was, you know, how many people are you making a meaningful relationship with that doesn't believe what you believe? You know, and and you're going outside of yourself to intentionally make those meaningful relationships that was, that was really good,

Laurie Graham: 50:11

and that is so hard. Like, I have to say, that is hard. And, you know, at one point during the talk, I talked about, like, our faith grows more in those situations. Like, it's really easy not to grow when you're around everybody who believes like you believe. And we all just love each other, and we all have, you know, honestly, kind of the same issues, right? And so I think my personal faith has grown more when I've had relationships with people who believe different, who are different, and meaningful relationships, not just I'm here to serve you or help you, or bring you in or make your life better or fix things, but like meaningful relationships, where we see every. Everybody on the planet with a little crown on their head, like you are creating God's image. You are God's breath. Yeah, like where we see people as they they also bring to us like we're not just at different levels. Or, I don't know, there's something so beautiful about that, so I love that. All right, I am so happy to share that session with you. If that conversation nudged you or just challenged how you think about outreach. That's so intentional, and we just ask that you take this conversation into your church, like just bring up the topic, start talking about what's been going on in your church, how everybody's feeling about outreach, what outreach really is. We really believe that we are changing the culture of so many churches these days, as we have just embraced and been taught models of, do more, do more, do more, more events, more programs fill those seats, and we're watching it disconnect with the culture around us, things that actually don't even fit small church life and even the relationships that we really want to build, so we're left feeling discouraged when things like that don't work. So if you want more conversations like this, we host online events and trainings throughout the year created specifically for people serving in small churches, especially volunteers and lay leaders who carry a lot of responsibility with very little recognition. The best way to stay connected is to make sure you are on our email list and always come hang out with us in our free Facebook community called creative solutions for small churches, you will find links to both of these in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for caring about people more than programs. Thanks for showing up faithfully in the places where God has already planted. You go small churches. We really are changing the world until next week. Be alive. You. You.