227: Why People Stop Volunteering at Church (And How To Fix It)

Most people don’t say no to serving - they say no to how it feels. And often, that feeling comes from how ministry is built in the first place. 

When a few key shifts happen, things become more relational, more sustainable, and something people actually want to be part of.

In this episode:

• Why people step back from serving (even when they care)
• The 4 shifts that change how ministry feels from the inside
• What happens when you move from managing people to building ministry with them
• How small changes create a completely different experience

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Transcript

Laurie Graham  0:01 
Hey, welcome to the Small Church Ministry podcast, where we help volunteers and ministry leaders experience less stress, more joy and greater impact as we share strategies that actually do work in smaller churches. I'm your host, Laurie Graham, let's dive in.

Laurie Graham  0:22 
Hey, hey, welcome back to the Small Church Ministry podcast. Last week, we started a conversation about volunteers, which is a topic we tackle quite often in a lot of different ways, from a lot of different angles. And this series, we are really talking about that we don't just need more people. Okay. 

I know that is what so many people say—if we just had more volunteers—but we took a step back last week to start talking about why people aren't responding the way we expect in the first place, because it's not typically the ask, it's not typically the role. And I want to connect this also to something we talked about a few months ago, a few months ago on the podcast, I did an entire series on the biggest mistakes we make with volunteers, and that series got a really big response. A lot of people were messaging, emailing. We've had so many different conversations about the fact that we're not really dealing with a people problem. We're dealing with how ministry actually feels to be part of it. And what that series mostly did was we talked about what to stop doing now as we move into this month and this little mini series—if we're calling it—about volunteers, this is different. We're going into what actually changes the experience that volunteers have from the inside out. So if you want those practical tips, what to stop doing, go back and listen to that series on what to stop doing. 

Now we're going a little deeper in a different direction, on how to actually change the experience that people have from the inside, because once we see that people are responding to what they think they're stepping into, they're not responding to the fact that there's a need, even subconsciously. People are really responding to what they think there's going to be stepping into, then we can start asking better questions, like, what actually makes something feel different to be a part of? What kind of things do we want to be a part of, not just where there's a gap? What role needs fixing? And today, I'm going to give you four really specific shifts. They're not necessarily strategies. They're definitely not quick fixes. They're shifts. These are shifts that don't just change how ministry runs, but they change how it feels to the people inside of it, the people involved, the people who are being influenced by being part of it. 

The reality is, yes, churches struggle with getting people to say, yes, but churches also struggle with people staying there's a retention issue. It's not just a recruiting issue. It's a retention issue. We've all seen this. Maybe it was somebody steps in and we're celebrating, and we're like, 'Oh, hallelujah. This is fixed, right?' Somebody stays for a while, and then slowly or suddenly, they step back. Maybe we think they got busy. We definitely usually say that. Sometimes it's true. But honestly, from what I've seen, that's not always, and not even usually, the case. If you can get a little deeper or ask from the outside, there's another reason, and there's usually a pattern. People start pulling back. They hesitate a little more. Maybe they miss more often. Maybe they seem less engaged, and eventually they're out, not always dramatically, but oftentimes done, at least for a time. And I do want to say quite emphatically that people don't usually leave because they don't care. That's not usually the case at all. 

I have talked to hundreds and honestly thousands of people who serve in churches. When people leave, they usually leave because something about it isn't working anymore. Maybe never was, but most volunteer teams are constantly cycling people in and out—if there even is a functional team that people are part of—but again, not because people don't want to serve either, but because something they're experiencing isn't something that will keep them long term. And again, we're not talking about selfishness, we're not talking about comfort. We're often talking about health, not just good vibes, but what's actually healthy for people to be part of. And if there's a pattern there, then the question isn't, how do we get people to serve? How do we get more volunteers? It actually becomes, what makes people stay? What makes people want to stay? What makes it healthy for people to stay. 

So we're going to walk through four shifts, and I'm going to name them first, because clarity matters. Clarity is good. If you're on a treadmill or driving in the car, brushing your teeth, you don't have to stop and write it down. We always have transcripts available. You can always come back and listen again. These are shifts we've talked about in the past. We will talk about again—maybe not exactly in this way—but the one shift is from servants to friends. 

The second shift is from recruiting to developing people over time. So we're shifting away from recruiting to developing people. 

The third shift is from doing ministry for people or to people, to building ministry with people, and the fourth shift is from more to less. It's simple. And what I want you to listen for throughout this episode is not just what they are, but what they look like in real life. And if you've heard me speak on some of these in the past, we're taking a different vantage point from the in this podcast episode, we're not talking about the theoretical. We're talking about what it looks like and what it feels like from the inside—not just how to implement it from our vantage point—but if you heard last week's episode about what people believe they're going to be experiencing, that's what we're talking about. So the shift number one from servants to friends. Jesus said, 'I no longer call you servant.' I call you friend because a friend's got the inside scoop, a friend also has relationship and trust. 

A lot of ministry is built around this idea that we need people to serve, that we're doing jobs. So people step in and they help, and they often stay at a distance. We often keep them at a distance. This hierarchy of there's a leadership team, and then we need volunteers. We are breaking that down everybody. When ministry is built around the idea that we need people to serve, people stay at a distance. They do a role. They're not always connected. It often sounds like, 'Can you help with this? We just need someone to cover this spot.' 'Can you take this on?' 'Can you fill this role?' This is so familiar to me. I've said it, I've heard it. But what if? What if it sounded more like, 'Hey, how are you doing?' 'Hey, I'm really glad you're here.' 'Hey, let's grab a minute and talk.' 'Hey, what would you rather be doing?' What if ministry church sounded more like that? It's small, but it changes things, a couple real life, real Sunday experiences. How about instead of handing somebody a role, a job, maybe even a job description, we check in before and after. We learn more about their life, we connect them to someone else. Now they're not just serving, they're connecting. People will serve for a while. They will do a job for a while—but if you want them to stay—we all stay where we feel connected. That's just true in life. That's not just church. 

We stay where we feel connected once that starts to shift from servant to friend, and there's connection. Once that starts to shift, this next shift becomes even more important. Okay, shift number two is from recruiting to developing. Most of us were taught to recruit. We have seen this in churches since we were littles. Can you help with this even when you're a child? Do you want to help pass the offering plate? Do you want to be the line leader? Can you help hand out supplies in Sunday school, most of us were taught. We sought example, to recruit, to find people to fill roles, to keep something running. What that sounds like again is, can you help with this? We need somebody to do this. Could you fill in this week? The shift from recruiting to developing is longer term. It's actually what Jesus did. Jesus didn't look for the people who were done, who were ready, who could just step in. He actually came alongside people who needed development, because we all do. So what development sounds a little more like is, 'Hey, I've noticed you're really good with people.' Or 'Have you ever thought about trying this?' Or 'I'd love to have you help you, know, help you step into this place, this team, this role.' Instead of asking, what can you help with? We start asking, what are you good at? What do you enjoy? What would you like to learn? What would you like to grow into? And then we follow up. We walk with them again. This isn't fast, it's not quick, and neither was Jesus. 

Recruiting fills gaps. That's what we need to stop doing if we want to stop the pattern. Developing builds people. Most churches stay stuck in recruiting mode. That is what we see most of the time, because we're looking at solving the next immediate need. Can we take a breath and step back? Because if we're always looking to solve the next immediate need, we are always going to be in a cycle of rebuilding instead of growing something that's stable, okay? So from recruiting to developing leads us into the next shift, from doing ministry for people or two people to building ministry with people. Okay, most ministry is built like this, leaders or like the people on the inside team, okay, the ministry team or leaders, they plan, they decide, they organize, and then people are invited to help.

Laurie Graham  12:36 
What it usually sounds like is, here's the plan, here's what we need. Can you help run this? What it could sound like if we want to build ministry with people, it could sound like we're thinking about doing this. What do you think might make this better? What would you change? What do you think do you want to help shape this with us? When we're shifting from doing ministry to people or for people and building it with them—instead of handing somebody a checklist—we invite their input early. We ask for ideas. We allow them to be part of influencing the outcome. So now, it's not I'm helping with this. Their experience becomes 'I helped build this.' That is so different. Can we think about what people would experience if we made these shifts, if in our hearts and our minds and the way that we operated, we shifted from people helping us—from servants to friends—how would they experience us? They'd be met with connection and love and care, instead of here's this job like a cog in a wheel. If we really shifted from recruiting to developing people, not just, 'Hey, come fill this role. We need you.' 'We need a warm body. We need help with this.' to developing people. 

I don't think there is much more amazing on the planet than we are with somebody who has our best interests in mind, not their needs, but our best interests. Where do you want to grow? Where do you want to become? What works in your life? How can we become the people that God really created us to be—people who care about our capacity—who care about what we're already carrying? Do you see how people would experience us differently, the church differently? If we were about developing and not just recruiting. And man, this shift from doing ministry to people or for people to building ministry with people, inviting them in, it changes people's experiences so much, because when we are part of building something or influencing the outcome, or people want our creative ideas, or want our energy in the ways that we can give it in our gift mix. Being asked to help is not the same as being invited to build something. 

Now, again—I've said this in several episodes—I may have already said this earlier in this episode. Forgive me if I'm repeating myself, but sometimes when I'm talking about something passionately, I can hear the voices in my head, the voices that I know are going to come at me later that say this is not supposed to be about us. It's not supposed to be at our comfort. It's not supposed to be about our experience. 

We are supposed to serve out of obedience. Can I just say this doesn't cancel out how we treat people, how we value people, how we see people. This isn't about everyone's preference. This is about how we are wired. God created us to love and to be loved, to feel connection, to value, and also understand when people value us, if people consistently feel used, manipulated, overlooked, unseen, misunderstood, stretched or stuck. We don't grow like that. We don't grow. We just last as long as we can, again, serving God, being obedient, stepping up to the call, being committed. This is not a competing value with treating people well, loving people well, setting people up to succeed. Once people start experiencing that level of care, of knowing that we value them. And again, I am not just saying it's what we do. This completely is reflected in what we actually think about people and how we care for people, because when we get into this judgmental place of they're too busy, they're not committed. 

Do you see how your value of them, of what they bring, of loving them well, is slipping when we care about what people are experiencing, we care about them. Once people start experiencing that in the church, so many things shift. Okay. Now the last shift I'm going to mention is a shift from more to less. Things really do change here in a different way, because we are living in a society where we are just piling more on ourselves and others all the time. The noise level is just huge. What is competing for our hearts, for our time, the amount of pressure. And I'm not just saying like putting—I don't know hobbies above church or serving—I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about our hearts. I'm talking about how much we know and understand. I'm talking about information at our fingertips. I'm talking about the news. I'm talking about the overload of decision fatigue. I'm even talking about the fact that we know so much more about our own emotional health that things just feel heavier. 

We feel more responsibility for each other, for ourselves, for connection, for healing, for relationships. We're in touch with so many more people than we ever have been at any other time in human history. When our phones ding and our child or our friend or somebody from another culture that we know across the world because of our online connections needs us. Think of how many things are pushing on us all the time. There has got to be a shift from more to less. Our instinct is we need more we need more time. We need more volunteers. We need more programs. We need more stuff. We need more connection. We need to do more to reach that visitor who was in our church last week.

Laurie Graham  20:08 
It often looks like more volunteers, more programs, more things running, more pressure, even internal pressure, to keep things going when we can shift from more to less. We, all of us, can stop and ask, does this actually need to keep running? Is this actually a problem that needs to be fixed? Is this stretching people too thin? Is this stretching me too thin? Is this helping or is this just happening? I really believe that a general ministry principle that I talk about often is more impact isn't about doing more things. It's often about getting more from the things we're already doing, slowing things down so people aren't running from one thing to the next. Having more impact is often about doing less. 

Some of my favorite podcast interviews right here on Small Church Ministry, when we've done church highlights or ministry highlights or just brought in other people. One of my favorite people to talk to is Dee Bryce. She's in the UK. Love her for her accent, love her for her heart. Love her for her philosophies and ministry. They have talked so many times. Both she and her husband, Tony, who pastor together, they have talked so many times about what has changed their ministry for the better is when they pulled back, when they did less, when they simplified, when they let go of things, of programs of different expectations, when we can stop and ask, does this actually need to keep happening? Do we need so many layers? Does this need to be so complicated? Could we simplify? Could we do less instead of finding more people to run a program, we can decide we're not doing this one right now. 

We're going to simplify this. We're going to focus on what's actually working. We're going to acknowledge that our volunteers are really stretched, or our leadership is really stretched, and we're going to step back. We're going to give our pastor a sabbatical. We're going to put a pause on women's ministry just for the season. We might even let our worship team take a break for a month and have more silence or reflective music that's just playing while people can pray, because more doesn't create better ministry more often creates more strain. 

What could a shift look like—for you, for your church, for your ministry area—that shifts from more to less and again, since we're talking volunteers, how would volunteers experience that? A release of pressure. Hey, I'm just telling you right now I would love that. It doesn't mean we're not about the mission of loving people well as Jesus calls us to, this is not letting go or putting a break on ministry. It's oftentimes being more effective, because we can show up for people better when we're doing less. 

Please hear me. I'm not saying stop doing ministry. I'm not saying stop worshiping on whatever day of the week or night that you worship or gather together with believers, but we've got to remember our modern church culture has wrapped itself around many things that are not scripturally based. They're not the core of being a community of worshiping together, of supporting each other, well, of outreaching, of being out in our community, of loving people, well, of yes, teaching people to love Jesus, what we've put on our what He's put on our hearts, sharing scripture, but adding more things, more programs, what if we stepped back and did less? 

More burnout in ministry doesn't come from serving too much. It comes from sustaining things that doesn't work anymore. Sustaining systems. God doesn't call us a burnout. Burnout is not a sign that we're following God's call in our lives. It's not burnout comes because we're doing too much or serving in the wrong places, or trying to sustain things that don't work anymore. God doesn't call you to burnout because there's not enough volunteers to do the jobs. This is where the shift from more to less can come in, and help us all be healthier. When we put these shifts together, we're not just talking about when volunteers stay. We're talking about when we stay and we're healthy. All of us stay when we know we're among friends, not just being servants or being used because we're filling gaps or roles. The shift from servants to friends, all of us stay in places, in cultures and systems, when we're being developed, not just recruited, when we're growing, when we're excited, when we know we're becoming closer to who God created us to be. That's the shift from recruiting to development. 

All of us stay in spaces when we are building something, creating something, improving something, not just doing tasks. We're created for this—that's the shift. And all of us stay in spaces where it fits with our capacity. Something actually fits, not piling more on than we can handle. That's the shift from more to less. 

So this week, before we come back and talk again next week, and you're gonna love next week. Ah, I'm so excited about it. But just for this week, just pick one of these shifts—not all four, just one of the shifts—and ask like, what would this look like here in whatever spot you're in, whatever ministry you're serving in, whatever team you're on, whatever thing you're looking at developing, what would a shift look like in that area, whether the shift is from servant to friend, whether the shift is from recruiting to developing, whether the shift is from doing ministry to or for people to doing it with people, whether the shift is from more to less. What would that look like for you? 

What would that look like for a volunteer position that you've been working to fill, or where you know there's a gap. What would those shifts look like? Have a conversation with someone please. Have them listen to the podcast. Say, 'Hey, I listen to this. What do you think?' 'What are we missing? Where could we grow?' 'What could we do differently based on these shifts?' Because we don't grow and change because we heard something. You heard a concept, you heard a podcast. You heard a thought. We grow and change and develop because we apply something. 

So this podcast isn't just about, oh my gosh, so and so needs to hear this. This podcast is about, what do I want to do with this. What can I do with this? Bring someone else into that discussion next week, we're going one step further, once we see these shifts, the next question becomes, how do we actually build something like this? Not just talk about it, but do it with real people, and that's what we're working on right now, behind the scenes and in front of you all, in the next couple weeks, we're building something to help walk us all through this with a team with your church in a way that actually works, feet on the ground, putting steps in to make these shifts happen in a forward moving way, bringing others in, inviting them, super practical. It's going to help you think differently about your team, if you have one, about a future team, about ministry partners. So excited. 

So anyway, until next week. Keep doing what you're doing. If things are going great, celebrate it. If things aren't going great, don't go into any kind of shame spiral. We're all in this together. Small Church Ministry is not less ministry. It's very different, different challenges, different joys. Different solutions. It's one of the things we love so much about being around people in small churches, in our free community, in our paid membership community, we get to be with people who are not only experiencing the same thing, so we don't feel so alone, right, in these smaller churches, smaller spaces, but we start to embrace the beauty of smaller church ministry, doing ministry very similarly to the way that Jesus did ministry, finding solutions that work, not because we're importing strategies from larger churches, because we already know those don't work, but because we're doing Jesus-style ministry, looking at relationships, looking at where God is moving and joining him there. We don't need more people, we don't need more money, we don't need a bigger church. We don't need more programs for God to work. God is always at work—right now, in your space, in your church, no matter the size—God is at work, He is at work. So we are just working to join him, to see it, to get rid of all the weight and all this stuff that we've been taught that is holding us back, patterns, systems, modern church culture that isn't even aligned with where God's calling us. 

Let's do it. Let's go there. Let's get aligned with where God's working. Join him there and find the solutions that are going to move us forward. Next week on the podcast, we're talking about how to grow healthy teams and have all the people you need for whatever you're doing without asking for volunteers. That's where we're going. All right. Until then, be a light.