Calm in the Storm: Stay Unshakeable in an Over-Triggered World

Why do tiny annoyances feel like personal attacks?
 Why does your brain hijack reason the moment stress hits?
 And how do the calmest people in the room always seem to win?

In this episode of The Jocular Pugilists, Phil and Tomas explore the psychology, biology, and social dynamics behind staying calm under pressure — from fight-or-flight brain chemistry to modern trigger culture, road rage, customer service meltdowns, and why humor might be your secret weapon.

Along the way: scarves in heatwaves, wine confessions, plastic meal rants, SEAL-team decision science, and the surprising power of just… breathing.

Because in a world engineered to provoke you — calm is a competitive advantage.

🧠 In This Episode

• Why the amygdala hijacks rational thinking under stress
• Fight-or-flight vs. freezing — what your brain is really doing
• How hormones influence anger and emotional regulation
• Why modern media is designed to keep you triggered
• The biological cost of chronic stress on your health
• Why the calmest person becomes the leader in any room
• Breathing techniques used by Navy SEALs
• How slowing your speech de-escalates conflict
• Humor as a pressure-release valve
• Practical tools for emotional control in daily life

⚙️ Actionable Takeaways

• Box-breathing method for instant nervous-system reset
• The “72-hour perspective flip” for stress reduction
• Verbal labeling to reduce emotional intensity
• How pausing before reacting changes outcomes

🎧 About The Jocular Pugilists

A sharp, funny sparring match on culture, psychology, technology, and human behavior — equal parts insight and irreverence.

⭐ Support the Show

If this episode helped you stay calmer:

• Share it with a friend
• Leave a 5-star review on Apple or Spotify
• Email your praise or complaints: thejocularpugilists@gmail.com

Let us know what you think.

Email Phil or Tomas at: 

thejocularpugilists@gmail.com

And check out our website at: thejocularpugilists.com

Transcript

Calm in the Storm_mixdown

Speaker: [00:00:00] Why stand still when you can run headfirst into a wall? You're listening to the Joop Ugis.

Well, that's a nice scarf you got going there, Tomas. What? What's happening? You, you cold in your studio? 

Speaker 2: Do I look jaunty? 

Speaker: You look very jaunty. You look like you should have driving gloves and a little cab on right now. I love it. Yeah, I love it. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, I should wear this all the time. Regardless of the weather.

It's 90 degrees. He's got his scarf on. He's losing consciousness because of, of a heat stroke. But you know, he's looking sharp. 

Speaker: It's better to look good than to feel good, 

Speaker 2: right? Yeah. I'm committed. Talk about committed. Years ago I taught at this music workshop, and it was during the summer. And I gotta admit, it was like a heat wave.

It was like 110 degrees. And this kid was [00:01:00] committed, he was a goth. It was during the goth craze, and he was wearing a full winter coat, 

Speaker: like, like a trench coat or like, 

Speaker 2: or no, a coat, like a winter coat and like long coat. And he was, and he had the makeup on and mascara and everything, and it was all running because.

Speaker: That's not a good look. 

Speaker 2: Well see. Here's the thing. People were making fun of him, but I thought this kid commits like, I am really impressed by this kid. 

Speaker: That's a great way to look at things, man. Just look on the bright. I am impressed with this person side of things. No matter what goes on, you know, it doesn't, doesn't matter.

Speaker 2: So if you see me wearing this scarf in the summer, 

Speaker: I've committed. Or you should be committed. We we're not sure 

Speaker 2: one of the two. 

Speaker: Um, so I had an interesting thing happen on my walk today. You ready for this? Yeah. I leave the house and I walk down this main, pretty main street where there's a high school.

And usually at the time I'm [00:02:00] walking, there are students like, you know, coming to the high school and, and I always cross the street because it's too difficult to like get past all of them, you know what I mean? 

Speaker 2: Because you're nervous. It's like, it's like step brothers filling. It's beating the hell outta 

Speaker: it's right.

They chase me down the road. They taunt 

Speaker 2: you. 

Speaker: They ask for my paper route money. It's really embarrassing. But this time, uh, it was like, Hey, it was a little later in the morning. So I was able to walk right past the high school. Mm-hmm. And as I'm walking past it, there is this woman on her phone and she is screaming in, I think is Jap what's Japanese?

Or it may have been Chinese. 

Speaker 2: Phil. Not all Asian people are Japanese. 

Speaker: I know. I'm just That's very prejudice. I'm just saying, I don't know. I don't, I don't know. But she was Asian, right? 

Speaker 2: Right. 

Speaker: She's, she's screaming in her native language. Let me just say that. On her cell phone. Okay. And then she sees I'm, I'm like, I can't help but stare [00:03:00] at her as I'm walking by.

I am like amazed by this. And she looks at me immediately, covers the phone and goes, oh, this person's just crazy, like in English. This person's just making me crazy. I can't, I can't handle it. And then gets right back on the phone and start screaming in, in her native language again. And I was like. I was blown away because she went like from incredibly angry to incredibly reasonable, to incredibly angry.

Yeah. In the space of seconds, 

Speaker 2: how much time to bet it was a family member. 

Speaker: It's funny that you say that because that's what I, how I spent the rest of my walk is trying to figure out, trying 

Speaker 2: to figure out who 

Speaker: she was, was going, yeah. What was going on. So I, I was thinking maybe she dropped her kid off at high school, uh, and something happened with a teacher or.

I, who knows. You know what I mean? Because it was literally right in front of the high school, right in front of the doors. Nuts. It was so funny. 

Speaker 2: All right, 

Speaker: so by the way, what the hell were you talking about? Your packaged factor meals. Now you're using [00:04:00] Factor. You're not doing Blue Apron anymore. What's going on?

Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. That's not what happened. I. My son is, uh, he has midterms, so he wanted something to eat. My wife got, uh, you know, you get those cards where you can get free meals for a certain amount of time. So she decided she got some, you know, factor card. So you've heard of Factor before. Obviously it's the chef Provi.

I, I'm doing air quotes. Chef created meals, right? Why am I doing air quotes? There's all of these meal plans. This is the reason why. So when I saw the first off, I tasted one of them and I was really unimpressed, although I have to say the one I made for my son. Quickly for lunch was okay. It wasn't bad.

But when you look at the meals, they look like TV dinners. They're just like microwaveable. You know what I mean? So if you're gonna be chef created, you gotta create a better packaging than Stouffer's tv. Oh, 

Speaker: yeah, [00:05:00] yeah. So wait a minute. So the, are they in the same like plastic type of trays? 

Speaker 2: Exactly. No different.

They look no different. There is no different in packaging. Uhuh, I'll say the box it comes in is nice, but the meal itself looks identical besides the word factor on it. Identical to a Stouffer's meal that you got in Stop and Shop. 

Speaker: Are they charging premium pricing? Is it pretty expensive? 

Speaker 2: Well, I don't know because I, I'm not buying it, it's my wife.

Oh. We have, we have separate bank accounts, but so, but she, she's doing that free thing, so I don't know if she's gonna continue to do it, but it's an easy way to, I guess. Count your calories. 'cause on it it'll say whatever, 400, 500 calories, whatever the meal is. And it's not ridiculous portions, but man, I was just make it look nice.

Packaging is a big deal to me. 

Speaker: It is not just that plastic, we know. Especially on this show, we talk about how bad plastic is for you. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. And you're nuking it. I can't imagine that being good for you. Yeah. Uh, you're right, you're right. Good point. [00:06:00] Yeah, 

Speaker: yeah, 

Speaker 2: yeah. I'm getting rid of all plastic, and I had this thing with my mother years ago where my parents were you, they were part of that generation.

They had me at, you know, the seventies and eighties and nineties as as growing up. So those were my decades where everything went from glass to plastic. You know, sixties, probably fifties it started, but they, they just started, you get rid of the glass and the idea was, well, you know, a plastic cup, when it falls on the ground, it doesn't break.

You, but like, yeah, but it kills you. So like if, if it, if the glass breaks big deal, buy another glass. You know, glass is biodegradable too. It's okay for the world. Plastic, not so much. So, yeah, it is crazy that these meals come in plastic, 

Speaker: so I can't help myself, dude, I gotta bring this up because it made me, I laughed.

For about five minutes when you told me this. So we were talking about wine and, and we both, we're both wine lovers. We both love red wine and, 

Speaker 2: and we're [00:07:00] both doing a dry January. I'm successful. You're not? 

Speaker: Well, no, I am not doing a dry January. I am doing, I am doing a. A less alcoholic January. Lately I've been bad.

I I've been going to these networking events Yeah. For business and they're all at bars, so there's no, I don't, I don't have a choice, you know? 

Speaker 2: Well you do. Yeah. 

Speaker: I don't have a choice. Uh, anyway, so we were talking about wine and you were saying Yeah, it used to be so expensive. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. We're saving money this month for sure.

Unwind. 

Speaker: And then I ask, well, how much, I mean, what are you talking about? So please tell everybody. 

Speaker 2: Alright, well I have to preface this because this is not now. Now it's like two to four bottles a week is what we'll have. Right. But way back when, I had a friend who unfortunately passed away. He was a really awesome guy that I met when my wife and I moved in.

Prior to us getting married, we used to live in Tarrytown. We moved into Tarrytown. He had just opened a wine store and I literally walked into the store. It was called Grape Expectations [00:08:00] before. Great name. Yeah, yeah. Before. He had opened the store, he was putting the shelving in, and I walked in and said, Hey, I'm Tomas, you know, and he introduced himself as John.

And um, it was just before, you know, the store was even opened. So right away he, he and I got along really well and he got my humor. So I really enjoyed hanging out with him. But, um, I would constantly, he got me, uh, not that he got me wine, 'cause prior to that I drank wine, but I started getting cases of wine from him.

And then at one point, yeah, we would do at. At least three cases of wine a month at least. So about, yeah. 

Speaker: That is amazing to me. Yeah. I'm sorry. That isn't I, I think about that and I'm like, God, I can't even do more than like three bottles a week. Yet at most, that's, if we're drinking wine on a regular basis, we're doing three bottles a week.

That's it. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, that's a long time I now I couldn't do that, but, but you know, at 28, you know. [00:09:00] 

Speaker: Yeah, right. 

Speaker 2: That's when I started. Right. I think I started wine prior to you too. Right. Did you drink wine in your twenties that much? Uh, I mean, I drank, but not, 

Speaker: not nearly as much as you did, but I, I honestly didn't, 

Speaker 2: quantity and quality are two different things.

Speaker: I was turned off from wine by my parents, by, by Carlo Rossi. So I was, yeah. I was never a wine joker Wine. Until right until I went with my brothers and, and sister, we went to Napa Valley and, and did tasting sometime in my twenties. 

Speaker 2: So then it's similar again. You, we, we just never hung out in our twenties.

That whole, that whole decade of our lives. We just like didn't hang. But I mean, I, if you think about it, a case of wine and we would do a couple. You know, more expensive. Like back in the day we, it was like a $10 to $15 bottle of wine. So we're not talking about high-end wines, but we would do a couple, maybe four bottles.

Yeah. Of nicer wines, you know, the, the, the, let's say from 20 to, to even 40 or $50. 

Speaker: Well, how much [00:10:00] money were you spending per month at that 

Speaker 2: point? A lot, man. A lot I would say. You know, a case, well, what's the numbers there? I mean, the case would be well over a hundred, I don't know, uh, $200 somewhere in there.

So let's say $600 a month on wine. 

Speaker: I mean, that's a, that's a really nice car payment. You said, well back then, not now. You said forget our second car. Exactly. 

Speaker 2: We get wine, 

Speaker: we're getting wine. 

Speaker 2: And I had a second car back then. 

Speaker: I, I like your priorities. And, and by the way, this could steer us right into what we're talking about today, okay?

Which is, which is how to be the calm in the storm. And I'm wondering if the wine helped or hurt you become,

did it help your road rage or did it hurt it? 

Speaker 2: Well, it's, I think it probably helped, right? Hopefully I wasn't on the road, but yeah, meowed me. It fattened me up. Yeah. Yeah. It got me outta that size 30 pants.[00:11:00] 

Speaker: Oh. So we always. Talk about just on our own, on the side, about the value of, of staying calm in like stressful situations. And the toughest guys are always the calmest and the quietest 

Speaker 2: the least likely to get into a fight. It's funny, testosterone going awry is a bad thing. Yeah. Are all these videos of average guys challenging?

Professional fighters like UFC fighters getting in their faces and screaming at them, and the fighters actually trying to calm them down. In fact, there's a really unbelievable video of a former UFC middleweight Champion Israel Stanya. Seriously trying desperately to get away from a guy that just wants to fight him, to prove him, you know, his, his masculinity, it's just absolutely insane.

Speaker: And that's somebody screaming in your face. What about just the stupid stuff that we deal with, like customer service, you know, or, or when you get that [00:12:00] automated, you know, customer service line, you wanna. Throw the phone or you know, or, I mean, obviously road rage, but even like even sometimes I'll be sitting there and somebody will be chewing really loudly and it, it'll just start.

I can feel the blood rise to my face, you know? 

Speaker 2: Where, where is this chewing loudly? Is it a restaurant or, 

Speaker: yeah. Anywhere. Like, it depends on where I am. If I'm, even if I'm sitting with somebody I'm, I'm close to if they're chewing with their mouth open Yeah. Or doing something that, that just grates on me.

Speaker 2: Slurping. That's the slurping is a painful one for me. 

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Ricky DVA does a lot on this. 

Speaker: Oh really? 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh yeah. 

Speaker: I knew I liked him for a good, for a reason, just to live a, a, a nice, happy life. I think it's pretty important. We should probably look at, alright, why do we lose our calm so fast, you know?

And 

Speaker 2: how. Possibly be the common story. 

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 2: Which is really not always easy. The older I [00:13:00] get the easier it is though. 

Speaker: And we will talk about why that is. Actually there's, there are some chemical reasons why that's the case, but before we do that, I don't know if you've heard about the amygdala. Do you know what the amygdala is?

Speaker 2: Inform me. 

Speaker: It is the part of the brain that's responsible for fight or flight. 

Speaker 2: I did not know that film. So you are. You're imparting wisdom on me 

Speaker: when the amygdala triggers rational thought goes out the window. So to your point, you said when that guy was confronting the UFC fighter, they were not thinking that through.

He was angry. For some reason he was not rationally going, all right, if this guy. Gets his hands on me. I'm done. That's bad news for people, you know? That is bad. I told you about that time at the concert where I did, where I blew it. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 

Speaker: And the guy was twice my size and I was ready to fight. 

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Well, that's it. Where it's never worth it. Even if it's not, even if it's someone you could, 'cause I, there's so many things that could happen that that just, but the biggest is forget [00:14:00] about the physical and the legal things that could happen to you. It doesn't help. Blowing up, let's say at a customer service point person, are you gonna get more help?

Are they going to be more likely to fix the problem? You know, it just doesn't ever help. 

Speaker: Yeah. And so this fight or flight, which is similar to, you know, the Serengeti, you're, you're being chased by a lion, you know, it's the same idea, same, same chemicals going on, figure that one 

Speaker 2: out. 

Speaker: But let's talk about the chemicals because men and women.

Have very similar chemicals. They, the, the makeup is, is what's different. So the, the percentages of each chemical is different in men, women, but they have the same general chemicals that affect behavior. So testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone men. Particularly younger men have that high, much higher level of testosterone, and the estrogen and progesterone are not as high.

Now, why is that important? It's because those, the estrogen and [00:15:00] progesterone are regulatory. They buffer things like adrenaline and cortisol, and they help to regulate levels. So women who have higher levels of those, they actually can stay. Calmer in a high stress situation. Not all women, obviously. 

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

Yeah. There's a lot. There's a lot of videos online of angry, angry ladies. Now, 

Speaker: what do we call 'em? Karen's or, 

Speaker 2: yeah, Karen's, yeah. Which seems unfair to people named Karen. 

Speaker: I know that name. I, we should look up how many, how many babies have been named Karen in the last two years? 

Speaker 2: Not many. 

Speaker: You know, when you said.

It's easier for you to stay calmer. Now, there's actually a chemical reason for that because your, your testosterone, unfortunately are testosterone levels. What do you 

Speaker 2: say? I have a tremendous amount of estrogen. Is that what you're said? 

Speaker: Well, the balance is more even, let's, let's put it that way. 

Speaker 2: The Man Z give away.

Speaker: I wasn't gonna go there, but if you're gonna say it, you know. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. It does [00:16:00] seem unfair that if I only had the testosterone that I had when I was in my twenties and I could feel youthful and you know, get over injuries and all of the positive testosterone, but to have the calm, clear headedness that I gained with age, you know?

Speaker: Oh yeah. Have you ever been in a situation where your mind, you're so angry that your mind just goes blank? 

Speaker 2: Uh, I mean, it's been forever, you know? So there's the, there's the, what is it? So it's fight or flight, but there's also just standing there and, 

Speaker: yes. Freezing. Yeah. 

Speaker 2: So is that what you're talking about?

Speaker: That is a version of it, yeah. 

Speaker 2: Okay. I guess so it's been a while, but yes, no, I've had those situations, like I had a couple situations over the past 10 years where I decided not to get, to, let, to, to sort of let it go. But there's always a bit of me that makes fun of the person that's crazy and that's, that's not good.

Speaker: That's dangerous, but you're so good at it. Yes.[00:17:00] 

I feel like if it were me, it might diffuse the situation, but 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, 

Speaker: but yeah. Other people, maybe not so much, you know. No, 

Speaker 2: no, no. 

Speaker: But you hope that they're being so stupid that they don't understand that you're making fun of them because the way you do it sometimes is incredibly subtle and, and really funny.

Yeah. Yeah. And very, very funny. Not always. Not always. No, not always. Not always. Not always. You're right. Like I, I feel like because of social media, it, there is more around us these days to make us nuts. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker: We don't like to talk politics because it, it ramps everybody up, but I think the 24 hour news cycle is, is part of this problem that we have.

Speaker 2: Yeah. In in social media on the news, there's just a ton of triggers for people, which is so messed up because that's what forces you or usually gets people to wanna watch more. So you're literally on the edge of your seat. We're living in a trigger induced society. 

Speaker: Yeah. And [00:18:00] they do a really good they, they do a great job of it.

You don't even know it's happening. When it's happening. Once you're triggered, it's too late. Right. I hear a lot of people that are just staying off social media right now for that reason. Because they recognize it's bad for them. It, it's hurting them. 

Speaker 2: One of the things I've said, because I think of this when people are angry at me and they actually wanna get physical.

I actually think this in my head is I'll say, what do you win the third grade? What do you wanna fight? What the, what's wrong with you? 

Speaker: That's amazing. 

Speaker 2: What do you eight? But it's also true if you think of all the anger in politics as well Now. What are we children, we have to get uptight about this 'cause someone has a different opinion.

What's wrong with us? Come on. 

Speaker: Right, exactly. And here's why. It's, it's so bad, you know, I mean, we all know it. It can create these dangerous situations, but what, but what if it even doesn't? What if you're just sitting at home and you're triggered and you're, and you go into these responses, what does it do to your body?

It, it releases adrenaline. [00:19:00] Immediately. Mm-hmm. It releases cortisol. It may give you a dopamine hit, which is why you enjoy it. You know, part of you actually enjoys getting riled up because you get that dopamine fire, but what happens? Yeah. When those things are prolonged, you have. High blood pressure issues.

You have physical issues with your heart, you have hormonal imbalances. 

Speaker 2: It literally damages your body. 

Speaker: Yes. And the more you do that, the easier it is to get into that state. That fight or flight response is meant to be for short bursts, to get away from the danger, and then you calm back down. But the more you're in it, the more damaging it it does to your body.

And also. The easier it is to get into it again. So it's like a habit where you're, you can trigger yourself much easier if you've been triggered a lot of times over the, you know, let's just use the last five years. 

Speaker 2: You know, I've read that life expectancy is actually going down. Maybe that's because people, the mental health, because they're so triggered all the time.[00:20:00] 

I wonder, I wonder if. The places in the world that had the longest lived people, you know, the Mediterranean places in Japan. I wonder if those places, people are just calmer and that actually is what's contributing to their long lives. 

Speaker: I think so. I think it have to be right because their culture is slowed down.

They're not doing the things that we're doing, 

Speaker 2: which seems a little bit unfair because many of those places are really beautiful. 

Speaker: Well, that's probably part of it, mean have you ever sat on a beach and just kind of didn't do anything and and realized, oh my God, I'm so calm right now. Oh my 

Speaker 2: God. Yeah. Do you ever drive down the freeway and see a building, like a residential building that's like butted up on the freeway?

Like the, like, you know, like that, that's their room. It's just right where the cars are going by. I always think the people that live there. Wow, that's rough. 

Speaker: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great point. And sometimes they're like. The, these super high end where they've got a beautiful balcony that overlooks the [00:21:00] highway.

You know, 

Speaker 2: I'm seeing that more and more now. 

Speaker: I know. And they're probably spending crazy money to live there. It's like, oh, 

Speaker 2: developers. Yeah. There's one right on 87, which is like the, the throwaway for New York. And it's just like, wow. Really? 

Speaker: Could you, I know. Could you imagine sitting out there with your guitar trying to be like, chill, you know?

Yeah. Doing your yoga on the balcony and, and there's just cars flying by. 

Speaker 2: Right, exactly. What's the gasoline? The smell of, uh, a diesel fuel wafting in the air. 

Speaker: Oh, yeah. We should probably talk about. What being calm actually does for you. It, it's essentially the opposite of all the bad things that happen when you're, when you're crazy.

So we talked about when that amygdala goes, your rational thinking is damaged. So when you're staying calm. You're a better decision maker. 

Speaker 2: I have an interesting thought. Smiling. If you smile, it's, it's easier to deal with the storm [00:22:00] of life no matter what happens. The good, the bad, the indifferent. If you smile you, you appreciate the moment in a way that you could never have appreciated the good and the bad moments.

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 2: In a way that you could never have without. A little bit of humor. 

Speaker: Yeah. And isn't that interesting that a physical thing that you're doing can affect your body chemistry? Yeah. So just the act of smiling can affect you emotionally and all, and and chemically. That's so interesting to me, for people who are dealing with weight issues.

Mm-hmm. Or trying to take off weight, staying calm and sleeping well. And balancing those hormones, particularly cortisol, will help you to lose that belly fat. 

Speaker 2: That's why I'm fat. That damn cortisol. 

Speaker: Yeah, maybe. So the other thing is, even in work environments, you tend to trust the per the calmest person in the room, the person who just kind of delivers the news or the information with that calm.

Voice [00:23:00] or wants to talk through things in that calm level headed voice, that's the person that you end up respecting and you end up listening to and you, and that's sort of the leader in the room. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker: It's a natural, it's a very natural thing. Everybody just kind of goes along with that person. 

Speaker 2: Well, I find that.

I know me, I talk too much. So when I, when I take a breath and I pause for a second, it often means a little bit more and I'll say something with less words that actually take less time. 

Speaker: Ooh, that's, that's interesting. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker: Wow. I, because you never take less time to talk when you're talking to me. 

Speaker 2: I know. 

Speaker: I wonder if I'm ruining your cortisol levels.

Speaker 2: I wanna be that Robert California kind of guy. 

Speaker: Yeah. Uh, our friendship is damaging you. Tomas, what, what can I say? I, I was watching this documentary about SEAL Teams and somebody asked the question, you know, what makes a good SEAL [00:24:00] team member or what makes a good special forces person? And it wasn't. The strongest, the fastest, the most athletic.

It wasn't any of that. It was the best decision maker. I mean, yes, you have to do all the physical things too, but you have to have that decision making process. And to have that, you also have to be calm under fire. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, 

Speaker: that's so interesting. 

Speaker 2: And calm with quiet. 'cause if you're being deployed, the amount of time you're waiting far, I would think.

Outweighs the amount of time that you're acting. 

Speaker: Wow, that's a really good point. That anxiety that you and I would certainly feel preparing for a mission or waiting for the next mission or whatever that is, that would be brutal for us. Alright, so let's. Maybe before we wrap up, give some tips, some actionable steps that they can take or that they can try, right?

Um, in business, that's what we talk about. Actionable steps. Yeah. Give me something actionable that I [00:25:00] can do today. So 

Speaker 2: what can I do? 

Speaker: Yes, what can I do? Enough of your talk. So let's, let's give a few a sigh, a deep sigh. Two short inhales. With a slow exhale. Let's try that. Tomas, give me two, gimme two short inhales and a slow exhale.

By the way, I do this with, with my business coach. She starts me off with breathing before we ever get into our session. So 

Speaker 2: that sounds a little bit, uh, 

Speaker: new agey, but 

Speaker 2: yes, new agey. 

Speaker: It is and it works great. Okay. For all the reasons we're talking about. All the reasons you put yourself into the best space for thinking and absorbing information.

Speaker 2: Well see, here's the thing about breathing. When you, when you take the time to breathe and not speak, that gives you this a second to think. So even if it calms your heart, the, the action I would say that helps me the most is not reacting right away. Taking a second and thinking about what just happened.

Speaker: I think that's great. [00:26:00] And there are very specific breathing techniques too. So there's something called the box pattern. And the Navy Seals use this, and the box pattern is you breathe in for four count, four 

Speaker 2: seconds. 

Speaker: Yeah. You hold, yep. You hold it for four seconds, you release it for four seconds, you wait for four seconds before you take the next breath.

So everything is in four second increments. 

Speaker 2: Interesting. 

Speaker: And by the way. Fantastic for if you're trying to fall asleep too. These breathing techniques are unbelievable because they drop everything into like a deeper state, like yeah, a deeper state of calm. Really, really interesting. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense. So if you breathe, it helps to calm your mind, and if you can calm your mind, you're more likely to act in an appropriate way.

Speaker: Here's a, an interesting one, saying that you're frustrated or angry out loud. It actually physically reduces the amygdala activity, 

Speaker 2: not acting frustrated, saying it, letting the person that's in the room besides [00:27:00] you or just you doing it alone, doesn't matter 

Speaker: either if you're in a confrontation or if you're just sitting there and you're getting angry and.

And you can feel yourself getting angry, you could say. 

Speaker 2: So I don't know if that would help hearing it, like if, let's say, if there's a, an actual fight happening, you know what I mean? It doesn't have to be a physical fight, just whatever, uh, an emotional thing that's happening, you and another person and you let them know, this is frustrating me.

Would that help? 

Speaker: I, I think it has with you and I when I, it depends on the word that you use. Yeah. If you say, this is, I'm getting angry, that amplifies things. But if you say, look, I'm getting frustrated. I'm sorry. You know, I think that's easier for the person to hear, so then you can handle whatever comes next in a more in.

Calm manner. 

Speaker 2: I think the most difficult thing is if you express that. If you say, this is really frustrating me. This is really hurting me, and the person on the other side of the disagreement reacts in a, in a way that's just compounds it, you know, says something like, uh oh, yeah. Oh well what about me? You know, that kind of a thing doesn't, [00:28:00] doesn't, it doesn't disarm it.

It can really make the argument get outta control. 

Speaker: I would agree with you, except that I've seen you use it. In a, in a really good way. I've seen you say this and then I've seen you go, or you know what? I, I really don't care. It actually backs you down. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. If you truly care about the person, you're having the disagreement with them.

Here's the problem, and I've had this over the past couple years. You know, 10, 20 years relationships that aren't that established in my life that seem like, feel, like I feel like I'm walking in eggshells and I can't speak honestly, man. If I have a disagreement or something happens in that circumstance, I just walk away.

I'm not willing to spend time on it, particularly, especially in this day and age. If it's because of a, a disagreement of views or it doesn't even matter the views, if it's, if someone is so hurt. By something you said, because in arguments, particularly in arguments, we've talked about this before, [00:29:00] you might say things that you don't totally mean in the heat of the moment.

What someone says to me doesn't matter. It's more than words, as extreme said to how they react to it. And if you tell someone, Hey, that's hard for me to hear, and they don't care, that's when you, that's when I'm like, okay, I'm done. If you don't care. It doesn't matter if you feel you're right or wrong.

'cause if you told me that hurts me, it might take me a sec to, to get over that. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna react to it and say, well, I don't wanna hurt Phil. So whether I'm right or wrong, it doesn't matter. Let's, let's, we're done. Let's move on. 

Speaker: I, I should adopt that language actually, because I know that that's true about.

You and it, it, it makes me feel better because it makes you feel like you're standing up for yourself as a person, but you know, you're not standing your ground on the topic necessarily. Yeah. But you are standing up for yourself, uh, and you're, you're speaking what, what is true in the moment for yourself that ultimately makes you feel like you didn't, you know, because [00:30:00] the worst is when you have those conversations or somebody may is making you crazy and you never tell them.

Yeah. 

Speaker: Then. It sticks with you the whole day long. 

Speaker 2: I feel like we always bring our baggage into everything, and one of the things that's important is reflecting on your baggage. You know, of course you have to realize other people have their own things, but, but you are in charge of yourself. You, you have to reflect on what's affecting me right now and should it be affecting me.

Maybe it's something that really shouldn't be affecting you. Meaning I, so I, I'm dyslexic and that's a. Part of me that frustrates me and people, uh, Phil and I had to talk about it recently because you didn't realize how much, it's how frustrating it's been through throughout my life. People don't know that.

So when they, I make a mistake that seems just silly to them and they bring it up, it can be hurtful to me. But I have to recognize and I have to, this is something I have to teach myself to do that it, that it's not their fault. You know what I mean? I'll get actually angry that, that they're doing [00:31:00] that and it, and, and it hurts, so I can put it on them, but it's not their fault 'cause they don't know that.

Speaker: I, I'm glad you brought that up because in this particular situation it was unique because, I mean, we've known each other forever. I know that. Your dyslexia is, is difficult for you and, and has caused problems over the years, but I never equated it to music. Therefore, I was able to be insensitive without knowing it because I, I had, because your talent level is so high for me, I love.

Listening to you play. I love talking music with you. I, I have so much respect for you that I would never equate one with the other, and that that was the discussion that we had to have. You had to say, no, the dyslexia can really affect Yeah. Even, even if I'm not reading music, it can affect what I'm seeing and I had no, no clue.

Speaker 2: And, and it's, it is just something that can. That can, that can easily, um, to [00:32:00] explain it just, uh, for a second, it can easily snowball for me. So it doesn't have to be music, but let's say it's music. If I'm visually seeing something, but I'm hearing something different, those two things are fighting with each other in my head.

I know what it is. If so, if I close my eyes, I, I'm good at just kind of playing. That's how I've compensated is not looking at it, just actually playing and listening. Using my ears is always the best, but when I'm in a situation where I'm being asked to do something and someone's telling me something, or they're showing me, uh, something, and then the, the situation is intense, the intenseness of the situation kind of starts to become a.

A distraction where I stop hearing with my ears all of a sudden, and that's something I've had to fight with my, my life, and I've compensated for it well, and I'm able to confuse people. Like for instance, when we went to Berkeley, I tested out of all of these basic things. Because they [00:33:00] thought, oh, he's really good at this.

Like, I never had to take chord labs. I never had to take some certain things I did really well in, but it was my compensation, it was doing things in my way. But there goes back to the whole, um, it's never helpful to freak out. So this is an emotional thing for me, but it was never helpful for me to, to, to, to start freaking out.

About the situation because then everything starts compounding and compounding and compounding. And then I just feel like there's a flood or a, I'm underneath the, the waves and I can't even swim to the top of the ocean to breathe. 

Speaker: Totally. And to your point, af this was our conversation was after the fact.

It, it didn't happen during, 'cause there were other people around. If it was just you and I, we would've had the conversation then it wouldn't have been, I wouldn't 

Speaker 2: have had an 

Speaker: issue. Right. It probably wouldn't have, right, exactly. But afterwards, like you never got mad at me about it, which was very cool.

You know, you were upset, you were like, this is why I'm upset. But you were able [00:34:00] to explain it, you know, in a way that I was able to understand, which was really cool to, to your point of. Know yourself, know why you're triggered and, and also give the person that you're in the conversation with some latitude because they may not understand and they're coming from their own place.

Yeah. And they just don't, they probably just don't get it. 

Speaker 2: I have a great example of this. I, I started playing this bar in New York City years ago called the 55, and I was, it's like jazz sort of bar jazz fusion kind of place that it's, it's a hole in the wall, teeny little place, but some well-known famous jazz artist kind of use it as a rehearsal.

And I was taking lessons with a famous jazz guitar player at the time. He, I played at the 55 and he asked me how the gig went, and I said something that was incredibly pompous without knowing it was pompous. I, I said, well, it was great, but I felt like people didn't really pay attention to me. They didn't appreciate my playing, [00:35:00] which is stupidly pompous.

And what he said was, he said, well, Toma, look man, when they're, these people are in the crowd there. You have no idea what happened. Someone maybe got a flat tire on the way to the gig. Maybe someone's mother died that day. Why? Why do you think they have to pay attention to you? You know, like, I never thought about that.

What makes you so important? 

Speaker: Yeah, I, I mean, that is such a useful tool. Try and give the grace to the person that you don't know. And I'd rather think that people are generally good than generally annoying. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, 

Speaker: that makes sense. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, 

Speaker: so it helps me anyway, you know. So here's some other tips. You can do, a perspective flip, just like you were talking about, but this is a kind of a different version.

Will this matter to you in 72 hours or will this matter to you? In a [00:36:00] year or five years, 

Speaker 2: and most likely you'll only care if you explode. 'cause you'll think, wow, why 

Speaker: did I do that? Yes, exactly. Which is why I cared and talked about the thing that happened at the Greek because why did I do that? Yeah, I, I felt ashamed and then it sticks with you.

So here's an interesting one, and I've heard. A lot of people do this, and every once in a while I, I've heard myself do it when I'm really angry and that is slowing your voice down. You enunciate more, you speak a little slower, and it, and it, and in one way it makes you sound almost more menacing in the other.

It gives your nervous system time to downshift and it gives you time to really consider if you are lucky Punk. Right. Clint Eastwood is the master. I never thought about that, but he is the master of that. It gives you time to [00:37:00] really say what you mean. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. When you think about it, if you pause in between what you say a little bit more 

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker 2: It can help. 

Speaker: This conversation really helps me. It helps to remind me of like the way I want to be. Out in the world, you know, kind and calm. 

Speaker 2: It just pisses me off. Say, but go ahead.

I'm so angry right now. You me. 

Speaker: Well, all right. It helped one of us, this conversation. That's good. Hey, 

Speaker 2: I wanna reach to the screen and strangle you. 

Speaker: Sometimes. I'm really glad we're 3000 miles away, 

Speaker 2: right? Humor does help diffuse situations. 

Speaker: Oh yeah. 

Speaker 2: It either helps or really hurts. Yeah. It depends when you, A third grader can either make you laugh.

Four really angry. 

Speaker: You gotta pick your moments for sure. Um, alright, well we are the jocular ISTs. Thank you for joining us [00:38:00] for another episode. You can find out more about us by going to the jocular ug list.com. You can also, if you'd like to support the podcast, tell your friends, send the link, leave a five star rating and review wherever you listen to your podcasts.

And Tomas, if they wanna reach out to us, how would they do so? 

Speaker 2: They could do so by emailing us at the jocular@gmail.com. 

Speaker: Well, my man, I hate, hate, hate, hate to love 

Speaker 2: you. I'm gonna take a second and breathe after you said something like that. I have to. I have to let that, I have to think about that. Take a moment.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love to hate you. See ya. Riders 

Speaker 3: on the storm.

Into this,

into this world.[00:39:00] 

There's

his brain is squiring like a j.

This man.