Fun with Pharmaceuticals! Happy Commercials, Terrifying Side Effects

In this episode of The Jocular Pugilists, Phil and Tomas take a deep dive into the bizarre world of pharmaceutical advertising—from catchy jingles and dancing actors to disclaimers about infections, organ failure, and even death.

Along the way they explore the history of modern medicine, the rise of drug advertising on television, and the complicated relationship between pharmaceutical innovation, government regulation, and profit.

Because while modern medicine has saved millions of lives, the business behind it raises some uncomfortable questions.

And sometimes the cure sounds scarier than the problem.

🧠 In This Episode

• Why drug commercials list such extreme side effects
• The surprising history of modern pharmaceuticals
• When the FDA was created—and why
• Why only a few countries allow prescription drug ads on TV
• The economic incentives behind pharmaceutical marketing
• The difference between natural remedies and synthetic drugs
• Whether drug advertising empowers patients—or confuses them
• The rise of blockbuster medications and trillion-dollar pharma markets
• Why some drugs become lifestyle products instead of treatments

Let us know what you think.

Email Phil or Tomas at: 

thejocularpugilists@gmail.com

And check out our website at: thejocularpugilists.com

Transcript

Speaker: [00:00:00] Why stand still when you can run headfirst into a wall? You're listening to the Joop PUIs.

Speaker 2: Side effects for Rex include fix of rage, acne, bleeding, baldness, blindness, whooping cough, hallucinations, coma, trouble swallowing, decrease in semen, increase in semen, nasal source, constipation, vomiting, night terrors, amnesia, and suicidal urges. And 

Speaker 3: those are just the side effects they tell you about. I get the sweats.

My bones are cold, my teeth are loose. My heart gets really, really hot. I could read mines and sometimes I wake up driving a stolen car. My erections are fantastic. When I wear great sweatpants, people cross the street, which is fine. XR gave me my life back. Hail saved me.

Speaker: Did you catch the Hail Seton at the end of that? That, that's my [00:01:00] 

Speaker 4: favorite part. That's your favorite part? 

Speaker: Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Cold bones and, and hot heart.

Speaker 4: I like reading minds. That's pretty, that's a pretty good side effect maybe. I don't know. 

Speaker: And sometimes I wake up in a stolen car. Hey, 

Speaker 4: yeah. 

Speaker: By the way, that was the Rock. If anybody didn't know, that's not a real commercial. That is from Satin at Night Live. Yeah, 

Speaker 4: there was an ED medication that I remember the side effects.

Where if you experience a for over 24 hours, consult a doctor. Oh my, for 24 

Speaker: hours. I remember four hours, but I don't remember 24. That's fantastic. Or 

Speaker 4: maybe, maybe I'm overdoing it, but you know, 

Speaker: consult a doctor or your whole. Right. 

Speaker 4: Exactly. Enjoy yourself. 

Speaker: I guess sorority would be, would be, would be he. It really depends.[00:02:00] 

This day and age, I just meant bragging rights. I was just talking about bragging rights to us. Uh, went you went to a whole nother place. 

Speaker 4: Say, look man, I always, I always had that question about you, Phil. So, 

Speaker: so why are we talking about this? Uh, we're gonna get into pharmaceuticals today just because those commercials make me laugh so much.

I can't help it. Every time we're watching a show, the commercials come on and I just start laughing. So I'm gonna play some samples 'cause I think you're gonna, you'll. You'll enjoy it and we'll, we'll get into some of the history. But before we do all that, let's, uh, talk a little bit about, 

Speaker 4: about that fraternity that you wanna tell us about.

Yeah, right. Hey, Phil. You know, there are no mistakes, just unintentional honesty.

Speaker: Good to know. Good to know. Yeah. Tell me what you did this week. Anything fun? 

Speaker 4: I met my family at an incredibly inexpensive, [00:03:00] I guess, Mexican Peruvian and Bolivian restaurant. 

Speaker: Wow. That's an odd combination. Although Peruvian and Bolivian are right next to each other. 

Speaker 4: But here's the, the funny thing, it was the menu had everything on it.

It also had Italian, it had obviously American classics. You can get French food. Did 

Speaker: you go to like the craziest. Diner ever. Where did you come? 

I'm 

Speaker 4: sure the cooks has have worked in diners before, but I think possibly I had the worst margarita of my life. It was so, it was so bad that I did not finish it.

Speaker: And that's saying something because when you, when we were in college, we'd go to like those, just stupid, you know where they do the, the premix? It comes out of a tap margarita. That's 

Speaker 4: definitely, that's definitely what this was. 

Speaker: Oh really? Okay. 

Speaker 4: I mean, there, there wasn't a fresh. You know, lime within a hundred yards of this, this glass of, of alcohol, 

Speaker: which is so sad.

Didn't you say they served Mexican food? 

Speaker 4: Yeah. It's not a good sign. 

Speaker: That's not a good 

Speaker 4: sign. [00:04:00] We were the only people in the restaurant. My only assumption is that they don't wanna spend the money on the fresh lines because they don't know if anyone's showing up. 

Speaker: So I'm, I'm assuming the food, uh, was not great.

Speaker 4: It was okay. I, it wasn't, the food was the best part of it, to be honest. But it wasn't. No, it wasn't great. It was okay. 

Speaker: All right. 

Speaker 4: Its fine. Well, but the margarita was painful. 

Speaker: Yeah. We went out with some friends to Benihana's. Do you know what Benihana's is? 

Speaker 4: I do. You know, I've never been to a Benny Hanas, I don't think.

Maybe I have, but I've been to many hibachi places. 

Speaker: I love them. I love them so much. 

Speaker 4: Do you love them because you love that food or because of, you know, the show, 

Speaker: the whole thing. Both of them. I, I love the food and the show is great. Although, tell me if you have this experience, when you go into a place, if you don't get somebody who's Japanese, are you disappointed when they step behind the grill?

Speaker 4: Oh yeah. Oh, I'm so, I'm so bad with that. You know, like I remember Tracy tried to get me to do [00:05:00] yoga for years and she kept on getting me the, these video. These, you know, these, these DVDs of, of, yo this is way back when we used DVDs of yoga instructors that were often famous actors. You know, like the, the, you know what I mean?

But they weren't Indian or they weren't, you know, they weren't, they didn't look like a yogi to me. And I had such a hard time with that. I really did. So, do you know, I don't know if you remember this, but when I visited you in Fort Lauderdale, oh my god, she got me this. DVD, and it was a guy, Yogi Hari. And he looked yes, like a yogi.

He looked like a real yogi. And I got into it. And then when I visited you, Tracy said, do you know Yogi Hari? Is actually in Fort Lauderdale and I started feeling bad about it. And then what, so when we visited you, we went to the ashram and, and you know, visited, we had a private session with Yogi Harri and when I looked around, I'm like.

This is the video. [00:06:00] Those are the palm trees. This is where he, it's all here. 

Speaker: So you actually got me a gift certificate to go, I don't know if you remember this, to go see Yogi High. Oh my. 

Speaker 4: Did you, did you go? 

Speaker: I went, well here's what, here's what happened. I went, but it was his student that taught because he was out of town.

He was doing something. Oh, 

Speaker 4: no. Bummer. 

Speaker: And he, and it was just me and one other girl. The other girl was incredibly advanced and it was the most painful hour and a half of my life because he didn't explain to me that there are half moves you can make. Like he would just say, do the move. No, not good at all.

Not good at all. It was I You didn't go. First of all, I was swearing at you under my breath. Yeah. Yeah. The whole hour and a half. And then I swore I'd never go back to yoga in my life. I did end up going back to yoga, but with much bigger, not Yogi Hari. No, not Yogi Hari. No. That was it for my experience there.

I 

Speaker 4: really wish you met him. 

Speaker: I, me too. I, I know that [00:07:00] that was the intention. You wanted me to meet him, but 

Speaker 4: the funny part was, well, there's many funny parts, but he loved Tracy. But he was, had a lot of questions about me, so I like Phil, we're not the most graceful of human beings. No. We get around, but, you know Right.

We wouldn't be professional, you know, dancers or any, anything like that. So he, he said to me. He was laughing about my name. My name is Tomas, if you don't know, and he said, you know, the Tomasic state is this sloth like state.

Tracy said, well, that explains a lot.

Speaker: Are you sure he wasn't hitting on your wife? Because you know, that's the first step. Shaming the husband right there. 

Speaker 4: Is it really? 

Speaker: Wow. 

Speaker 4: A, a, a. 

Speaker: Yeah. Nice. So, alright, so Benihanas, so we're there and the guy, as I said, was not Japanese and I was a little like, oh, but, but I'm gonna give him his chance, [00:08:00] you know, and he starts doing the thing and he, now this I've never seen at Benihana, he does this trick where he is got this egg.

He puts this egg under the bowl. You know, you see the egg come out mm-hmm. For the fried rice. He puts it under the bowl then, and he, he swishes it around. He opens it up and there are three eggs there. He did a magic trick. I've never seen that at Beata. I was amazed. And then he cracked them all. And that was, they were all real eggs.

It was, I, I have no idea how he did it, how he did it. Um, I was floored. So now I'm like, I'm on this. I'm like, thank God we didn't get the Japanese guy, you know? Totally on board with this dude, and he goes and he does the whole thing and it's really good, but, but he forgot. Now, what, what is when, when you think hibachi, what is the quintessential trick that they always do?

Do you remember? 

Speaker 4: Whenever I'm there, they're, they have the little boy or whatever. Filled with alcohol and they squirt alcohol. Oh, right. That's that's a big one. 

Speaker: [00:09:00] That is a big one. That, that wasn't what I was talking about. What I'm talking about is they always do the onion, uh, volcano. You know? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right. So this guy forgot to do it, and we forgot that he forgot to do it, but at the end of the meal he was like, oh, I gotta do the, let me show you. Like, he was putting stuff away. And then he remembered that he forgot to do the, the vacan volcano onion. So he takes out the onion and he just can't seem to get it to stand.

So it was the most pathetic volcano. Oh no. It was three. Three slices of onion and then. Instead of making it, you know, it's supposed to, you pour some lighter fluid or whatever the hell they put on the grill. 

Speaker 4: Hopefully alcohol. 

Speaker: Right, right. Probably alcohol. And then they, they light it and it's supposed to shoot up through the thing, but he just set the whole on fire, like the whole grill was on fire.

So 

Speaker 4: magic, good hibachi skills, questionable. 

Speaker: Yeah. Quite a little questionable. Yeah, to be honest. But the, the [00:10:00] meal was great and we had a great time and it was fun because Connor was in town. He was able to come, so it was, it was nice. It was really nice. 

Speaker 4: Are you gonna learn some of those tricks next time I come out?

Are you gonna have a hibachi in the backyard? Dude, you're gonna 

Speaker: No chance. My left hand can do so can keep up with my right. Yeah. You 

Speaker 4: would be missing a finger or two if you. I'm 

Speaker: even worried when I'm just cutting like chicken, you know, at home when I'm getting ready to to cook. 

Speaker 4: Me too. I've been to the hospital multiple times because of cutting incidents.

Speaker: That's right. It's 

Speaker 4: funny, I'm looking at my hand now to go. I wonder how many of those scars I can see and I see three 

Speaker: that is still there. Really? 

Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, the last one was just a year ago. So, oh my. It's not that far. 

Speaker: Oh my God. Wonder that. 

Speaker 4: And that was a big one. That was three stitches. 

Speaker: Yeah. I, I wonder if it's just gonna get worse for us as we start getting older and Yeah.

More feeble. Like, we're just gonna have cuts everywhere. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Speaker: Uh, all right. We should get into this episode.[00:11:00] 

The first question I had is, alright. Why are these ads so extreme? The disclaimer at the end of these pharmaceutical ads are so sometimes so extreme that you wonder like how the, first of all, how did this get through the FDA? How is it, are people comfortable taking some of this medication because it feels like the side effects are worse than the actual condition that you have, you know?

And Yeah, and I, I don't understand it, so I did, of course, a little research. And it turns out only the United States and New Zealand are countries that allow direct to consumer prescription drug ads on tv. 

Speaker 4: Huh? 

Speaker: Why is that? Because we probably shouldn't be making the decision as to what. Drugs we're taking, it should be our doctors saying, being the the filter [00:12:00] for us to say these prescriptions or these drugs, good.

Don't take this. This is the, here are the risks. It should be explained by a doctor, not a TV ad. And as a matter of fact, they even say in a lot of the ads. Tell your doctor that this might be right for you, which I don't understand, 

Speaker 4: tell or ask. 

Speaker: You're right. Maybe it's ask, maybe I got that wrong, but I hear it as tell your doctor, you know?

Yeah. Which is just totally backwards. You should be part of your own, um, health. 

Speaker 4: That's the thing that I would say. Yeah. That it does, it does it empower people Because the thing is, doctors are very fallible, you know, meaning they're human beings. They're not perfect. So there's no way they know every medicine and they're gonna be used to certain things, not used to other things.

And it's okay to ask questions. I continually talk to people about having the experience of asking doctors for specific. Things and the doctors are not comfortable using certain medicines, [00:13:00] so they almost, you know, which is, which is fine. They're probably right. I would, if I'm, if I have to guess the doctor's right?

My friend's wrong. But still it's, it's interesting that they're not bringing up, well, these are the things that would. Be beneficial to you. I suggest this one, and this is why I don't suggest the others, 

Speaker: right? Which is wild because pharmaceutical reps are going to doctor's offices all the time trying to convince them to recommend these to your patients.

So you would think. First of all, they're incentivized to recommend prescription drugs, which is scary, 

Speaker 4: which seems to me not a good thing. 

Speaker: But wouldn't they want to be the ones to dec make the decisions and make the recommendations? The doctors I've been going to are really good about not recommending medication when they could.

You know, they, they've tried to get me on statins a couple times, but. Every time I, I end up lowering my cholesterol naturally and they're like, look, if you can stay, if you can keep doing this, do [00:14:00] not go on statins. You don't need 'em. And they're not great to be on if you don't. Right. If if you don't have to be.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Because there are people that are on them for their entire lives. I just saw something about that, and I wonder, it prob, it was probably just a YouTube video, but about being on statins, suggesting it at a younger age recently, meaning even if there isn't an issue. Yet if you're genetically predisposed.

'cause there are people that have high cholesterol, bad cholesterol, and they have none of the telltale signs. They don't have weight, they don't eat poorly, they eat cleanly. There's nothing. Eat eating that's really doing it. It's just their, their body that just their physiology. And there was something about what if, if that's you, if you fall into that group of people, then it might be a good idea to start statins before you even need 'em.

Speaker: Oh my God. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 'cause the damage, when the damage is done, it's really hard to repair. But if it, if you stop it before the [00:15:00] damage. Then you're better off 

Speaker: the idea. It makes me crazy because there are so many natural things now, like I was saying and we talked about it here, black seed oil, red yeast, rice, um, uh, olive oil, you know, all, there's so many things that can naturally bring down your, your cholesterol, avocados, even if you're predisposed, which I am by the way.

Speaker 4: Right. 

Speaker: However, I've been able to stay off them, but there are natural ways to get to a lot of the results and, and. You know, I am not, by the way, Antip Pharmaceuticals at all, or anti-medicine, or I think they're, it's, it's super important. But when you start to see some of these commercials, don't you begin to question, all right, which is worse?

You know what I mean? And it depends on the medication, right, I guess. And, and the disease. We'll, we'll take a look at some of them. 

Speaker 4: There are things that really don't have [00:16:00] side effects, like, like creatine. My understanding is that there really aren't any side effects to creatine it. 

Speaker: It's great that you brought that up because I think about creatine a lot actually, because it does help you, uh, release nitric oxide into your system and it helps you build muscle.

It's there, there's a lot of good to it and, and it does some things chemically for your brain because creatine is something that we naturally. Produce and that will go down With age, you, you don't produce as much, so it, it is good. The concern I always have is, you know, when you start taking a bunch of stuff, even the, and I and I do the supplements and the creatine and this and that, I wonder.

How much your kidneys can keep up with everything because your kidneys are responsible for flushing out toxins, and if you're overloading the kidneys, well then they can't even, even with stuff that's not necessarily harmful, but it's, you're just giving it too much to handle, well, then it could negatively affect your kidneys or, I, I, that is a concern of [00:17:00] mine.

I don't know the answer to that and how much is too much and all of that, but I'm, I just say, you know, as I'm taking a, a lot of this stuff. I do try and, and monitor and watch how much I'm taking. Maybe I'll take, I'll take days off or weeks off of certain things just to give my kidneys a rest and, you know, uh, I think, I just think it's something to pay attention to, that's 

Speaker 4: all.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I remember when I was a child, my father was very health conscious, um, and he took a plethora of vitamins. This is in the eighties, I think, could have been even the seventies. Mm-hmm. Just way too, you know, a fist full of pills every day. Its, you know, 30 pills, whatever, some insane amount of pills.

And it actually, I remember he passed out and he would've been in his thirties at the time. 

Speaker: Wow. 

Speaker 4: He was at the top of the SSON fellow and the SAP said to go to the hospital. Um, and the, at the, at that point, the doctor said, yeah, you're you. It's too much. Yes, this stuff is good for you, but you're just taking too much.

Your body can't cope with that much. [00:18:00] 

Speaker: Wow. Wow. That's scary. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. And he was very in shape and it 

Speaker: wasn't incredibly in shape. Yeah. You would never think. Um, okay, so let's talk a little bit about the birth of pharmaceuticals. You know, where did they, they come from? Because for a long time it was just herbal remedies.

Hmm. Um, trial and error treatments. Some dangerous and some ineffective. You know, you, you can poison yourself with a plant just as easily as you can. Poison yourself with a pill, you know, if you're taking Yeah. Or bury or whatever. So 

Speaker 4: it, the trial and error, 

Speaker: that's exactly, 

Speaker 4: there's a lot of error. 

Speaker: This might, right?

This might work for you. Here. Here, try this. Have you ever used No. No. But you know, but how are we gonna find out otherwise? 

Speaker 4: Right. Exactly. That didn't work. 

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 4: Where's, where's Fred? Well, 

Speaker: let's just say don't eat the red berries anymore.

All right. Late 18 [00:19:00] hundreds, the early pharmaceutical companies began. They, they were German chemical companies, um, that were synthesizing drugs. You may recognize some of the names. Bear, Merck, Eli Lilly. Wow. Yeah. 

Speaker 4: Eli Lilly from the 18 hundreds. 

Speaker: Yeah, apparently. Who knew. I know. Who knew? I always thought that was a pretty, pretty newish, 

Speaker 4: modern, 

Speaker: yeah.

Modern company. But 

Speaker 4: yeah, it's, I'm, it's new to me just hearing it all the time. I never thought about 

Speaker: it. So some early breakthroughs. Aspirin in 1899, insulin in 1921, penicillin for mass production in 19, the 1940s during the Korean War, so, wow. Yeah. So. Whoa. We can all agree. Those are pretty great things, you know, thank God for pharmaceuticals, because life expectancy would not be what it is without it.

Right? 

Speaker 4: Absolutely. 

Speaker: So now when did the FDA come into play? It was actually June 30th, 1906. President Theodore Roosevelt. Sign the, the, the Federal [00:20:00] Food and Drug Acts. I know your favorite, 

Speaker 4: I dunno about theater, but all Yeah. I just visited his house, 

Speaker: so it, it was known as the Wiley Act and it, he signed it into law and it was originally set up to stop the manufacturer and sale of Misbranded Food and Drugs.

It has a much wider scope now because now if you're developing a drug, if you're a pharmaceutical company, you have to run through a very strict set of protocols and Right, and then get approved by the FDA before anybody could ever. Take, there's always been this argument going back and forth between the FDA or far between pharmaceuticals and herbal and home remedies, or because pharmaceuticals are forced to go through the the FDA and and this rigorous process, whereas.

You know, anybody can claim Ginkgo Biloba is good for your brain, and they do do scientific studies on it, 

Speaker 4: right? 

Speaker: But it, it doesn't have to go through the rigorous [00:21:00] platform that the FDA does. And like you said, before we even started this, that can be good and that can be bad. 

Speaker 4: I, I wanna talk about the FDA before I do.

This is really funny. Years and years ago, or at least interesting years and years ago, we lived in an older house that we don't live in anymore. In Oing that, um, when we did work to it, it was built in the 16, it was 1600 in the 1860s. And when we did work to it, we opened up a wall once and we found a cure-all like a snake all salesman, cure-all.

It cured everything. Yeah. 

Speaker: You're, you're kidding 

Speaker 4: me, A bottle? Yep. And we still have it. I have it. It's upstairs. I could grab it and show it to you, but I'd have to walk away from the 

Speaker: Yeah, no, don't show it to me later. But that's amazing. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. And it, so maybe what this, this act, the Wiley Act was for, I mean, it, it literally cures blemishes.

It'll, it'll help with Ed. It'll make you taller. It'll make you shorter. It'll help with indigestion. You can use it for whatever to clean your rug. [00:22:00] It doesn't make a difference. It does it all. 

Speaker: Wow. I am dying to know what was in that thing. Why were they so much smarter about medicine back then? 

Speaker 4: Right. It's pretty.

It is pretty cool. Yeah. So talking about the FDA, I guess what we were talking about before the podcast, at least my thought was the good and bad to the FDAI have, unfortunately, I've lost a couple friends over the past couple years, which happens to all of us. From cancer and I, I've, I've heard this before.

If you live long enough, you'll get cancer. Everyone on this planet will get cancer if you live long enough. Why do we not have a cure for cancer? Is there a possibility that there are cures that the FDA is suppressing because it hasn't gone through that rigorous process to make sure it's actually safe?

We had talked about this too, and. There are, and I know there are some, uh, of some possibilities of, of taking things that don't, haven't gone through the FDI, I [00:23:00] do think that you can apply for that because if they don't know the outcome, the act of medicine could kill you faster than the cancer if they don't know, right?

So there's good reasons for it, but there is also when you're in that situation where it truly is a time thing, you only have a certain amount of time, and the FDA is gonna take a long time. To Okay. These medicines maybe, maybe it's worth taking the ch the chance. 

Speaker: Yeah. And maybe you should be allowed to at that point, to make your own decision because you're right.

I, I actually remember a, uh, an episode of Boston Legal where they actually did a legal case specifically about what you're talking about, and they were fighting to allow somebody to take medication that might slow down. Alzheimer's, but wasn't FDA approved? And the argument was simply, look at what I'm facing, and this is within the next couple years.

Shouldn't I be able to defend myself if there's any, if [00:24:00] there's something out there that might help, can I make that myself right decision myself? I if I, if I assume the risk, you know myself as well. It's a great argument and it's very, that's a tough philosophical question to be honest. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, 

Speaker: because you want to protect society for.

From themselves, from making bad decisions. But also, you know, if you have nothing to lose, where is that line? 

Speaker 4: And, and there are gonna be drugs that are gonna just change society, change the world that are being held back for years to go through the testing. And once you get a big organization, there's red tape and there's politics involved.

And the thing that scares us all is the fact that. Uh, these pharmaceutical companies make a tremendous amount of money, and they're supposed to make money. They need to make money. We're all, if you have a 401k, you're probably invested in, in pharmaceutical, and you don't even know it. So that's the thought.

I mean, if there's a cure for cancer that can take you off drugs, [00:25:00] maybe it's not in the pharmaceuticals company's best interest to give you that cure. 

Speaker: Yeah, maybe. Or unless they're, unless they created it. And then it's, it's in a pill form that they can then sell. 

Speaker 4: My thought is if it's, if you take the pill and you're cured and you're not on a drug for the rest of your life, instead of a lifelong customer, you know how much is that pill gonna be, even if it's a ridiculous amount of money.

For, you'll make more lifelong. 

Speaker: You're not wrong. You, you have to question whether money comes into play. Before we go any further, I should probably play a commercial or two for you because when you hear these, again, when you hear the side effects and you hear the, the initial issue and then the side effects, you wonder, man, could I just live with the initial?

Speaker 4: It's ridiculous. 

Speaker: Rheumatoid arthritis does not sound nearly as bad as whatever they're telling me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to deal with. Um, right, but, so let me, let me play a, a, a couple of these for you. Yeah. 

Speaker 6: Humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that [00:26:00] contributes to both joint and skin symptoms.

It's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage and clear skin in many adults. 

Speaker 7: Humira and lower your ability to fight infections. Serious, and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.

Tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis B are prone to infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. Don't start Humira. If you have an infection, ask a rheumatologist about Humira. 

Speaker: Okay, so 

Speaker 7: it's ridiculous. 

Speaker: Ridiculous. So, so psoriatic arthritis, of course, I, I am sorry if you suffer from that.

I, I don't wish that on anybody. But, you know, painful, painful joints, you know, skin irritations. But when you listen to, to the risk reward, you know, what is that called? But I don't know. 

Speaker 4: Cancer is a risk 

Speaker: cancer of [00:27:00] that 

Speaker 4: medicine. 

Speaker: Heart disease. Wow. Liver and kidney function issues like. I mean, yeah, I, this is what I'm talking about.

I don't understand how, how anybody would make that choice, you know? Yeah. Un unless I guess their psoriatic a arthritis was so bad, but 

Speaker 4: Right. 

Speaker: But that's, that's inflammation that you can, that. I don't know. 

Speaker 4: You would think, I would assume that it's one in, you know, a million get these right? 

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 4: I, I would hope, 

Speaker: that's a good question.

They, they never say, but sometimes you can tell if they're, if they say, you know, some people or you may suffer from, but sometimes they'll just say. People suffer from. 

Speaker 4: Do you remember the potato chip that was zero calories? 

Speaker: Sure. Yeah, it 

Speaker 4: was ra. They actually had a disclaimer in the bottom that you may suffer from anal leakage if you eat this potato chip.[00:28:00] 

How much do you want those potato chip? 

Speaker: By the way, sugar free. You, it's the same issue. The exact same issue. Yeah. You know, okay, maybe give me some sugar. I'm right. I'd prefer that than the alternative. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Speaker: So, alright, um, back to our little history lesson of. Of pharmaceuticals because we did say there are some good things about pharmaceuticals and there was a golden age of drug discovery.

Between the 1940s and the 1970s, we found antibiotics. The polio vaccine, which literally I, you know, yeah. People are afraid to take the polio vaccine. It, it unbelievable saved children's lives. Before that people, children were dying from polio or being crippled from polio. It was a horrific disease. So vaccines good sometimes.

Yeah, sometimes vaccines very good. 

Speaker 4: Sometimes. Yeah. 

Speaker: Blood [00:29:00] pressure medications, early cancer treatments started in that, that timeframe. Some really. Positive effects. Huh? Life expectancy rose dramatically during that time. Diseases that once killed millions became manageable, you know? Mm. You remember the AIDS crisis in the eighties?

Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Speaker: Now you can live with it. I mean, not that Once again, you want to avoid it. You want to prevent it, but, but man, you can live with aids. That's pharmaceuticals. Right? 

Speaker 4: It's not a death sentence anymore. 

Speaker: That's right. And And that is amazing. So good and bad as we're gonna see. I think that's gonna be a theme.

Speaker 4: The bad is that I would assume that there are, I would assume there's definitely people in the pharmaceutical industry that utilize that, that think, okay, how, think of life prior to that. These people that that question pharmaceutical are outta their minds. The polio vaccine. Do you want it? I think about what it gave us.

That means they can utilize that. To also pressure us [00:30:00] into lifetime drugs that maybe we don't need. 

Speaker: I think that's a great point 

Speaker 4: because if you question it immediately, you're considered outta your mind and crazy, which believe me, I don't think that questioning everything in life is good. 

Speaker: Uh, I totally agree.

And, and we. Kind of started this podcast by saying, you know, you do need to be your own health advocate, especially, God forbid what you end up in a hospital. You need to be asking questions. Yeah, every procedure, they do everything. Do not be afraid to ask and take care of your own health. Of you or you know, somebody you love that's in that situation.

So why is this allowed and why is this happening? Well, you've said it. It's big business, global pharmaceutical markets today, $1.5 trillion annually. That is a lot of money. Pfizer Johnson and Johnson, Merck, Novartis, these are. Wow. Massive. There is massive financial incentive. And if you have [00:31:00] any questions, just find out what the golden parachutes are for the CEOs of these companies when they leave.

Right. How much they get paid out. I mean, it is incredible. So yeah, you're right. I mean, there is now, and I'm not saying that they're not trying to do good, but I, but I, I think you'd be foolish. Or if you don't think that. There are things that slip through because of financial, for financial reasons that probably shouldn't.

That that's just the way it's gonna go. It's just both. 

Speaker 4: It's just both. It can, it can be and and come on, really. 

Speaker: Okay. So drug ads in 1997, FDA rules changed and TV ads became easier to run. There, there was like, uh, some sort of trade off. I, I don't remember specifically what it was, but there was a reason why they were able, I, I think you were allowed to have ads, but the, the disclaimers, the risks had to be The 

Speaker 4: [00:32:00] risks, 

Speaker: yeah.

Were bigger. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. The disclaimers were bigger because I do remember ads not having those disclaimers. Like that was something that I feel like happened in the late eighties or early nineties. Yeah. 

Speaker: 97 I think is when it, huh, 

Speaker 4: well, what are your feelings about ads? Should there, should it be allowed, should, should pharmaceutical companies be allowed to advertise on tv?

Speaker: Uh, you know, that's a really tough question because I, I would say no, but. Then again, you know, GNC's allowed to create ads or talk about, and natural products are allowed to, and they don't have to go through the the FDA and 

Speaker 4: so what's the reason not? 

Speaker: I feel like they're inventing diseases. Remember, restless leg syndrome.

Now I have it you? Yes. Yes. But they gave it a name for a reason so that they can create a drug that they can sell to you for restless, like center, right? Not great. 

Speaker 4: You'll tell my wife about that drug. She'll put me on it regardless of what the possible side effects are. 

Speaker: I [00:33:00] should have looked that up. I should have looked up which one that was.

Oh, that's great. So anyway, the again, incentive, they're incentivized, right? 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Speaker: So I, I don't love that. And, and clearly if, if it's only our country and New Zealand, New Zealand and the rest of the world outlaws it, you have to kind of look at that and go, 

Speaker 4: yeah. 

Speaker: Are, are we that much better than the rest of the world?

I mean, 

Speaker 4: and also, so you think about these pharmaceutical companies lobbying our politicians. Are they passing laws that would possibly benefit these pharmaceutical companies, even if they're not benefiting us? You know, are they looking out for our best interest if they're doing that now, also, what about news?

If they have ads on TV, and let's say, I don't know, Pfizer puts ads on a certain channel, you know, whatever it is, and, and, and they, and the news industry. Has a story about Pfizer that doesn't look good, are they gonna run it? I, I don't know. We would hope they would, but it [00:34:00] begs the question 

Speaker: it used to be.

So that's a really good point. And we don't get to dive too deep into this, but it, it used to be that the news division was very separate. From the ad division of these, these companies for that exact reason because the news division needed to have autonomy so that they can go after if, if they found out something like that, if there was a whistleblower or whatever, they could feel free to go and report on it.

Honestly, even though that there, there were financial incentives not to, that line has since blurred. Quite a bit at this point, and it's much, I agree with you. It's, it's much harder now for that to happen and you have to worry about that. 

Speaker 4: It's a good, it's a que at least. It's good to have the question.

Speaker: That's right. It's good to have the que We don't have any answers here. If you come, if you come here for answers, you're not gonna get any, but you will get a lot of questions. There's no, no doubt about it. Alright, let's listen to another A, another ad. 

Speaker 5: I have type two diabetes, but I manage it well. It's a little [00:35:00] pill with the big story to tell.

I take once daily Jardiance at H Day Star that's coming on was easy to see and lowering my A1 c 

Speaker 8: Jardiance works 24 7 in your body to flush out some sugar. And for adults with type two diabetes and known heart disease, Jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death too. 

Speaker 9: Serious side effects may include ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function and genital yeast or urinary tract infections.

A rare life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. Stop Jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic. Reaction, you may have increased risk for lower limb loss. Call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of infection in your legs or feet.

Taking Jardiance with the sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. 

Speaker 5: Jardiance is really a pill with a big story to tell. 

Speaker: Quite a jaunty tune there. Toma, what do you think? 

Speaker 4: It's a lot of tunes. 

Speaker: [00:36:00] So in the commercial you can't see it, but people are dancing around their desk like they're really happy about this Jardiance drug, right?

And it's for type two diabetes, which is a real problem. It can help heart disease. That's good. But those side effects, you have an increased risk of losing lower limbs. What exactly does that mean? What is that exactly? It's 

Speaker 4: gonna fall 

Speaker: off walking 

Speaker 4: down the street 

Speaker: that. Maybe I don't. And which lower limbs are they talking about?

Because Right. Some of us have lower limbs that we really care about. You know what I mean? 

Speaker 4: Wow. 

Speaker: By the way, an infection, do you know what the perineum is? 

Speaker 4: No. 

Speaker: An infection in the per the perm skin is the skin between your genitals and your anus. 

Speaker 4: Wow. 

Speaker: Infection and it's life threatening. That infection, they said, whoa.

I, yeah. So. I don't know, you now type two diabetes, that is curable without [00:37:00] insulin. You can get off sugar and like reverse type two diabetes in a lot of, a lot of cases. So really, I don't know. I'm, I'm, I think I'm protecting my perineum at that point. 

Speaker 4: You, wow. Yeah. That was insane. 

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 4: But you know, it's always nice to hear a, a happy song.

Speaker: Happy, happy song. Happy people. 

Speaker 4: I think it was a key E everybody, by the way. Oh really? But it was, 

Speaker: you found the key. 

Speaker 4: It was getting close to stand by me for a second, but Wow. 

Speaker: Yeah. Crazy, right? Yeah. And you know, you know what else is nuts is the, now they've gotten better, but they used to, do you remember when they used to do the real rapid fire of the side effects where you couldn't 

Speaker 4: Yeah, because there were so many that 

Speaker: had 

Speaker 4: to get 'em all out.

Speaker: Dude, and you know, when I remembered or when I realized how bad it was was when I was doing ads for radio, I would, I would create ads and the, I'd have to squash the disclaimer to get all the, the ad [00:38:00] content in. Oh my God. The disclaimer, I'd have to squash to like nothing. It would be like five times the speed of normal voice, just so you can barely understand what was being said.

So 

Speaker 4: legally it's okay 

Speaker: to Yes. 

Speaker 4: Sell the drug. 

Speaker: Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy. Now there is one I wanna play for you. That is, to be fair, a, a tough choice because I, I do think maybe the benefits outweigh and it's one that everybody's talking about and it's ozempic. So let me play that one for you and, and let's have a little conversation about it.

Speaker 10: Type two diabetes. Discover the ozempic. Trione. Oh, ozempic. I got the power of three. I lowered my A1C CV risk and lost some weight in studies. The majority of people reached an A1C under seven and maintained it. 

Speaker 2: I'm under seven. 

Speaker 10: Ozempic lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults.

Also with known heart disease. 

Speaker 2: I'm lowering my risk 

Speaker 10: Adults. Lost up to 14 pounds, 

Speaker 8: I lost some weight. 

Speaker 10: Ozempic [00:39:00] isn't for people with type one diabetes. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take ozempic. If you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two, or if allergic to it, stop ozempic and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck.

Severe stomach pain or an allergic reaction. Serious side effects may include pancreatitis. Gallbladder problems may occur. Tell your provider about vision problems or changes. Taking ozempic with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk Side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems living with type two diabetes.

Speaker 3: Ask about the power of three with ozempic. 

Speaker 4: Okay. I don't know about you, but that's a catchy song that is, and we just had to, everyone knows the song, but I just looked it up. And Who the heck is Pilot? I don't pilot wrote that song. 

Speaker: I don't know, but. Yeah, I, I grew up knowing that song and loving that 

Speaker 4: song.

Of course, we all know it. Yeah, but there you go. So they had probably one hit, which they made a lot of money from, and now they're making even more money. [00:40:00] Maybe they were hurting and needed a little cash. 

Speaker: Truly, that may be the best use of a song in a commercial ever. I mean, that should win awards. It's so perfect for it.

Yeah. You know, now, okay, so here's my issue with Ozempic, or my question. I don't even have an issue with it. I don't care. You know, it, it, it does a lot of good, and if you're really overweight and it's able to help you get under control, it, it does help all of those issues. Heart disease and str, you know, risk of stroke and sugar and all of that.

But those ri, those risks were. Uh, pretty bad, you know, so, yeah. But, but it's kind of even, you know, if you can't do, in my mind, at least, if you can't get yourself to lose weight, to get out of danger, the danger zone where you really are at risk, right? Yeah. Then, then in that case, it really might be worth the risk of, of the, you know, of these side effects.

Right? Now where I have a problem is are those people who are maybe 20 pounds [00:41:00] overweight. That are taking this, 

Speaker 4: that don't need to. 

Speaker: Right? 

Speaker 4: Yeah. Have you seen pictures of Kelly Osborne lately? 

Speaker: Yeah, I did. It's really sad. 

Speaker 4: She looks like, like she's emaciated to me. She, 

Speaker: I know. 

Speaker 4: And is, and I've heard that, that it was from these weight loss drugs.

Now this is what the bugaboo is, or whatever it is. What people are saying. Don't know if it's true. 

Speaker: No idea. Yeah, no 

Speaker 4: idea. Who knows? But if it is, I people are really misusing the drug. And that's the problem with any of these drugs. 

Speaker: Oh yeah. I mean, we haven't, I, I specifically avoided opiates 'cause that wasn't the point of the, the podcast, but 

Speaker 4: yeah.

But that's a physical addiction. The ozempic would be a mental addiction. I don't ever wanna be overweight. 

Speaker: It might be a physical addiction too, because the, if you go off of it, your body reacts and you put the weight back, right back on. It's not a permanent. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, that's. Meant that's, I I say physical meaning like if you don't, if you, if you go off it, you, you probably go, yes, but you don't crash from going off it like you would if you weren't an opioid where you need [00:42:00] to detox from it.

Speaker: I, I don't know. Is that, is that true? 

Speaker 4: I don't know either. I must just assume. Yeah. Okay. We know we know nothing, but let's say it is. Yeah. And it's just a mental addiction that's still that 

Speaker: You're absolutely right. So, you know. Was epic. Use this. Beware. 

Speaker 4: Phil and I have this, we, we made this joke about a while ago, and I don't know if we could do this here, Phil, but I'll just throw it out there and you can edit it out if you don't think it's appropriate.

Okay. Where we talked about a Goba therapist where you would, you would show up to your therapist and he would say, you know, you had some issues. I don't feel confident, I don't wanna do stuff. And he was just like, Hey, I stole, get outta here. Don't do that. And it was done. That would be the Goba fit therapist, you know?

Hey, hey, just stop beating. You're dark, you know? 

Speaker: And that was his catchphrase. You're done. It's similar to, you're fired, but you know Italian. I love our guy, our Goba therapist. 

Speaker 4: You could do whatever. [00:43:00] I mean, I could be, he could be your nutritionist. Hey, you too fat. Stop eating so much. 

Speaker: I'm gonna be laughing all day about this because we, when Tom and I go get, get something like this, get a hold of something like this, we could go for, for literally hours.

Just, just talking about this one thing. 

Speaker 4: It's funny because it's so simple, but yes. If only I could live my life like, like he lost, 

Speaker: like I had to go That's right. Because he's right every time. He's never wrong. 

Speaker 4: He's wrong. Correct.

But it's not that 

Speaker: simple. I love it. Hey kid, stop touching your peepee. Alright, get out. 

Speaker 4: What? Where the hell did that come from? I, I'm noticing a theme in the podcast, Phil and I have nothing to do with it. 

Speaker: I thought I'd throw you a bone. 

Speaker 4: Oh my god. 

Speaker: Terrible. I know. I 

Speaker 4: think we gotta end because I'm feeling uncomfortable.

Speaker: Maybe now's the time. Alright, [00:44:00] so we are the jocular pu list. Uh, if you'd like to learn more about us, you can go to the jocular ug list.com if you'd like to never speak to us or listen to us again. I understand. And, and you don't have to, but if you want to support the podcast, you can tell your friends about us.

You can go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Leave a five star rating and review. And Tomas, if they do wanna reach out to us, uh, how would they do so? 

Speaker 4: They could do so by emailing us at the jocular pugilist@gmail.com and I'll try to look at the emails 'cause I haven't for the past like two weeks. 

Speaker: So we have no idea what's in there then.

Is that what you're telling? 

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bad. 

Speaker: This'll be fun. 

Speaker 4: Alright 

my 

Speaker: man, I hate to love you. 

Speaker 4: Hey, what's the matter with you?

Speaker 5: Ho, ho. It's magic. You never believe it's [00:45:00] magic, you know?

It

never been away. Hague never seen a daybreak leaning on my pillow in the morning, lazy day in bed music

in.