The Wild Ride of Radio, Rants & Rogue Geniuses

Before podcasts, before Spotify, before your uncle started one no one listens to… there was radio—and apparently, a whole lot of drama, stolen credit, and questionable business ethics.

In this episode of The Jocular Pugilists, we take a hilarious (and mildly educational) deep dive into the history of radio—from Nikola Tesla getting absolutely robbed, to Marconi cashing in, to how we somehow ended up here… talking into microphones like civilized lunatics.

Along the way, we cover:

•  How Tesla invented radio… and then watched someone else get rich
•  The first radio station, first commercial, and why ads were already annoying in 1922 
•  Why AM radio became your dad’s problem and FM became cool 
•  How politicians discovered radio and said, “Hey… let’s use this for that” 
•  Why podcasts are basically radio… but with fewer rules and more nonsense 

Plus: Savannah recap chaos, dolphin encounters, ghost stories, and at least one questionable excuse involving “possession” as an alibi (don’t ask).

Let us know what you think.

Email Phil or Tomas at: 

thejocularpugilists@gmail.com

And check out our website at: thejocularpugilists.com

Transcript

[00:00:00] Why stand still when you can run headfirst into a wall? You're listening to the Joop Pugilist

in 1895, A signal traveled. Through the air with no wires and kicked off a media revolution that still controls our attention today. Tomas, what the hell am I talking about? Could it be radio? It is. It is radio. You don't think that was pre-written you? No. Maybe this isn't the podcast for you. You don't realize what a poor actor Bill is?

That's right. Alright, so obviously we're gonna talk about. Radio today, we're actually gonna go through some of the history and uh, there's a lot of reasons why I love radio. Part of which is that I was in radio for 20 years. I worked at radio stations, but before we do all that, you know [00:01:00] what? I realized it.

We did the last podcast on your trip to. To Savannah, Georgia. And you barely told us what you did, so I know. So I, I feel like we need to hear a little more, at least I did. Yeah. I forgot to give the suggestions of what to do when you're in Savannah. One of the first things that we did was the night we arrived, we went to Leopold's ice cream shop 'cause we wanted ice cream.

And it's a very famous ice cream shop that everyone visits now. It is a good ice cream shop, but if you go, there's gonna be lines. I actually, I said. Picture to fill of the line. I mean, that was when I saw the picture of the line of people waiting to get this ice cream. Yeah, that's exactly what I thought.

Like how good could this ice cream really? Well, you know, it's a historic shop. You go there 'cause of the history of it. Yeah, yeah. You wanna wait on a line because you wanna experience the experience of going to Leopold, small batches, fresh ingredients, unique flavors, that kind of thing. But interestingly enough, there's a tie in to Hollywood, the current owner.

Is a guy named Stron Leopold and he is a producer. He produced Mission Impossible, some of all fears, a whole bunch of [00:02:00] movies. And inside these a hundred year old ice cream parlor is a bunch of movie props. So there's a tie in Hollywood and because so many films have been filled in Atlanta and so many of those movie stars have visited Leopold's ice cream, 'cause it's the place to go.

There's a lot of pictures of them in Leopold Ice Cream. On the wall. What movies have been shot there? So many films are filmed there. One that comes to mind that's famous is Midnight in The Garden of Good and Evil, the Eastwood movie. Another is Forrest Gump, and in particular, the scene where he is on the bench where he says, life is like a box of chocolates.

Ooh, we visited that square. It's called Chippewa Square, but unfortunately the bench isn't there. Oh, they don't? I was gonna say, do they have the bench with like a plaque that says Forest Gump was here? I actually think it was a movie prop, so I don't think it was ever there. But they should have left it there.

It would've made sense, yeah. As a, as a, a tourist destination. But they, but they did, they took it away. I should also mention that there's a a lot to do on the water. On the Savannah River. We did a Eco Dolphin tour. Wait a minute. This is where you see [00:03:00] dolphins. Like real dolphins. Yes. Actually, dolphins, Atlantic Ocean.

Dolphins hang out in Savannah. The interesting thing about Savannah is that. It's, it coexist with wetlands right around it. So there's nature and city right next to each other, and it's something that you don't really get in places like New York City, 'cause it's just urban sprawl forever. But Savannah, you can.

So what we did was we took a, uh, pontoon boat. You know what a pontoon boat is, right? Yes, I do. So when you're going fast in a pontoon boat, the water just splashes up and hits you. And I wasn't aware that that was gonna happen. So a, you get pretty wet, your feet will get soaking wet. Uh uh, and B it was cold when we went on 'cause it was the morning, so it was like maybe 55 degrees and you're going fast.

It was cold. I had a winter jacket on and I was, I was chilly. And we did see dolphins. Yeah, dolphins in a river. I would never have thought of that, but Wow. That's cool man. Yeah, because I mean, you could go swimming with them very easily. Yeah. I dunno if you want to, but Yeah, you can. [00:04:00] Yeah, you can. I think dolphins are pretty friendly.

Yeah. To, to people. I could, depends. Depends on how Randy they are. Can it Can get a little rough. That's a very good point. Yes. Let's say they, they're, they don't have the same PC kind of culture in dolphin culture. It's not quite, they kind of do whatever they want. Um, the, we there, the, the inspiration for the Haunted Mansion, we saw, uh, the one in Disneyland, not Disney World.

Okay. That's there. Um, man, there was a bunch of stuff. We did a ghost tour. I dunno if I told you that. Ooh, you know, I love ghost tours. Let, let's see that. Well, so it was fun, but there was no ghosts. You know, they, they, but it w what did they try and fool you that like to scare you into thinking that there was, you know, they might've, I don't know.

'cause at one point in the tour they dimmed the lights. It was just dusk. It was getting dark. Yeah. And we were in one part of the house looking in a mirror that apparently when you looked in this mirror, took picture. Many [00:05:00] people will see a ghostly image in their pictures. And this comes back from people that have taken the tour.

So we're taking pictures and. Front of this mirror, and then someone screams that a door opened by itself in the other room and we ran back in the other room, and of course the door was open. So did it open by itself? Phil, that is a question I will never be able to answer because I wasn't in that room, but.

Also, I have to say, the stories that they told about what happened in the house was pretty evil, pretty bad, and, and terrible things. So you're in the room where these actual terrible things happened, and that was pretty spooky unto itself. So I gotta say that. Um, and Savannah. Is supposed to be a historically haunted city.

Well, new Orleans is like that too. I wonder if it's why it's a southern thing. That's, that's so much, you know, I think it's because these southern towns have a lot of the original architecture, original buildings that house people from a, you know, a hundred, [00:06:00] 200, 300 years ago. So, um, if a bad thing happened in that building, it's, it could be the exact same house, the same room.

Particularly in these cases, sometimes the same furniture. So it, it feels like it embodies some of that bad vibes from the story when you're being told it. Oh, yeah. In Savannah, there are a ton of ghost tours, so if you are into that, I'm just like New Orleans. Mm-hmm. You can have a, a, a good time in Savannah, we did one and that was enough for us.

But there's a, but there are a ton of them. I just heard a great ghost story that I can tell you. Uh, I'll be very brief about it, but it was, it was a friend of mine. She, we were just talking about this the other day. She's, she's telling me that, you know, she's had a lot of experiences and, and one of them in particular, they had got, when she was young in her twenties, she and her boyfriend had gone to a haunted house and stayed overnight because she wanted to, she wanted, she had heard about it, she wanted to experience it.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So she goes [00:07:00] there and. Was possessed by one of the ghosts. This is what she says. She's like, I remember we were hanging out Uhhuh, and then she fell asleep. He remembers her getting extremely aggressive with him. Like he's like, we had a great night last night. And she's like, what are you talking about?

We didn't even do, we didn't even fool around. He is like. Oh yeah, we did. I dunno. I dunno. I dunno. You know, so, you know, Phil, when you finally find the footage from who robbed your house, you'll see that it, it actually is me, but I was possessed at the time, so it really wasn't me. Remember the last time I told you to go screw yourself?

That, that was not me either. No, it wasn't you. You were possessed. Okay. Alright, good. So we we have a new out. Yeah. Basically it was a possession I love. I love it. I was not in control of myself. I'm so sorry. Oh my God. I, I wonder how I could use this with Stacey. I'm gonna put this to work right away. It [00:08:00] won't work.

She's too smart for that. She is way too smart. I know. All right, so let's get into radio. One of the best stories I have from radio news, you know, we grew up in New York and I was a big Howard Stern fan. As a kid, you didn't like Howard Stern. You just, you thought he was okay, but you were fat as hell. When you were a kid.

When you were big, you were a big fan. Oh, you were large. Wow. Something's happened to me today. I, I am not getting Thomas's jokes, none as he's throwing them at me. It's bad. I don't know what's happening. Uh. Uh, my buddy Brad was in radio. He was working in a San Outta San Francisco. Station and he went on after Howard Stern.

Howard Stern was the morning guy. He was syndicated, but he was the morning guy and Brad would go on afterwards. So when Brad and I did our, what we like to call our rockstar weekend, where we just went around visiting everybody and drinking basically the whole time we ended up at the Howard Stern Show.

So we're hanging out in [00:09:00] the green room. And we meet. Baba Bowie comes in, he's super nice guy. Robin came over, then Howard came over and said, hi, and, and it was really cool. Like that's all I needed. It was me, Brad, and his Brad's brother. And now they're, they go back on Air Robin and, and Howard there. They have speakers in the green room and I'm sitting by the speakers and Brad is talking with Baba Bowie and the, you know, they're talking about whatever they were talking about.

Yeah. And all of a sudden I hear them talking about. Brad on the air Robin's like, oh, I thought they were a band. You know, that was kind of cool. But then, but then I, I go, Brad, they're talking about you and Baba Bowie freaks out. Gary freaks out and like listens for a second and then grabs him by the arm and yanks him outta the room and takes him right into the studio.

Oh, cool. And he ends up on air with him for like, oh, nice. 10 minutes. It was so cool. That's amazing. It was. Yeah. So I mean, I've, I've been in love with radio forever. Yeah. And so how tall is Howard Stern? I [00:10:00] think he's around six, seven or six, somewhere between six, maybe six five. Maybe six five. I'm not sure.

He's giant. Huh? Anyway, uh, you know, when I had my opportunity to get into radio, I, I had come out here to be a musician. I had just recorded my first record and I came out and as a side job, I got into radio and just got good at it and started producing and got on air and whatever. And, you know, the way that happened, yeah.

It opened the door and it became your job. That's right. It opened the door. It became my job. So I really wanted to talk about it because I feel like I got in right at the end of the real fun time. You know, I think radio was probably its most fun between 1970 and 2000 when FM and all of that started and then, you know, and then into the nineties and two, you know.

Mm-hmm. And read at the turn. But, and, and I was just there where it was still fun. I had this guy, uh, my boss, bill Ally, sadly he's passed [00:11:00] away, but he, he would just hire, if you were just a cool, decent person, he would hire you, which meant that sounds like the best way to hire. I totally agree. We just had fun people.

And and really attractive interns. Yeah, great atmosphere, but it also probably creates, 'cause radio you have to be creative. It probably. Mm-hmm. You get an atmosphere where people wanna be creative 'cause they all like each other and they're happy. So I mean, I would think it would help the atmosphere. They can learn all the nuts and bolts, but you can't create learn.

Like chemistry, it just doesn't happen. You either have it or don't. I think that's totally true. Actually, that's a really good point because a lot of what would happen is you'd have, like, I started as a board op Yeah. And, and then became a producer and whatever, but a lot of times you'd be in the rooms with the, the actual hosts of the show and they'd, you know, at the commercial break you'd say something funny or you'd joke around about something and all of a sudden.

You're on the air. Yeah. Where you never expected to be. And it was because like of, like you're [00:12:00] saying that creative chemistry Yeah. That spark, they see something in you or they realize you've got something to offer and then they advance you. Yeah. Man, I, I am so, I, I've so many experiences through my life where I feel.

Like most of the time people are hired not because of chemistry, but 'cause of what they know. And I actually think the chemistry part, generally speaking, you know, not for an engineer or a doctor, could be more. Important because you can virtually, you know, particularly in what we're talking about, you know?

Yes, I, I think that's a great point. So radio, let's go back to the beginning. Of course, radio is the foundation for satellite radio and then podcasting and streaming. But in the very, very beginning, 1864, there's a guy named James Clerk Maxwell. Who basically predicts electromagnetic waves, and that is what's gonna allow, um, [00:13:00] radio to, to happen.

It's gonna allow waves that sound can travel on. Mm-hmm. Over distances. Heinrich hurts proves they exist in a lab and it's real. And then I, man, Nicola Tesla. Boo Tesla. Yeah, that's right. Nicky Boo Boo. In 1893 through 1897, he demonstrates, uh, wireless transmission sound. Yes. Sound. So what? So, all right. We did one on TV a while back.

Mm-hmm. Which we talked about the, the history of tv. Mm-hmm. And I remember being shocked that the first images sent. And it might've been through a cable, and then wireless were way earlier than you think. I mean, it's still image, you know what I mean? Saying? Mm-hmm. But 18 hundreds, it might've been the same kind of around the same time period.

And I'm wondering if they were in conjunction with each other, meaning one guy was, I wonder if they did both or just simultaneous or how they coexisted. That's a really good question. [00:14:00] And you wonder if images predated because. They had silent films, like why weren't they able to attach sound? Yeah. Well, the very first audio was Silent Films, I think was literally a, a record that they tried to time to the, so it was two separate things.

You know, there was a point when they figured out how to put the sound on the actual film and that was the, the changing, which is crazy because we still do that with a DR. EDR is like you. You film a scene and something goes wrong or it doesn't sound right, or there's something obstructing the dialogue maybe.

Or, or you just didn't like the line reading, whatever it is. Yeah. And ag and the actor will go into a booth, record it after the fact, and sync it up to the actual film. So we still do that, which is crazy to think. Yeah. Totally true. Alright, so we've got Nicola Tesla. Here's what's fun. Everybody's heard the name Marconi.

While Tesla demonstrates a wireless transmission, Marconi actually [00:15:00] sends the first wireless signal. And here's what's interesting. Tesla is the genius. Marconi is the businessman. This turns into a big war because Marconi patents it and builds a company around it. So it becomes a battle in business and, and we've seen this in technology many times over.

You've got Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. Steve Wozniak is really the genius behind Apple. Um, at least the technology part of it. Steve Jobs is the genius on branding and marketing and design. And so you've always got the one guy in the background who's making sure everything works the way it needs to work, and then the guy in the front that everybody remembers, it feels as though Nicola Tesla is always getting screwed outta money because Totally.

Uh, Edison did the same thing he stole from [00:16:00] Tesla as well. Absolutely. And it's like, it's, it's almost like he didn't care enough until he had to care. Yeah. And then he would sue, you know, he, he did have a lawsuit with Marconi and didn't he die penniless Nicola Tester? He did. He sure did. Wow. Rough. So he's the smart one in the room.

He's making everything, but he is not profiting from any of it. Yeah. Now here's what's interesting. Marconi in 1900 applies for the US patent. And it's rejected because it's too similar to Tesla's patent. Okay. However. 1904. Suddenly the patent's approved. The US patent office reverses its decision. Huh? Why would it do that?

Tomas, take a guess. Money. Yeah. This gave Marconi the legal ownership of radio tech in the United States. Wow. Which is a massive commercial advantage, right. The United States, [00:17:00] even then was the biggest market. Huh? Historians will point to financial backing for political influence. You know, of course it's story is old as time we're still telling it.

Very frustrating, but that's the way that it went. Right? Um, so he built his company. He, he became Marconi. He actually wins a Nobel Prize. It was shared, but this infuriated Tesla, and that is when Tesla decided to sue for patent infringement. Okay? So Marconi wins in 1911. The suit is finally filed in 1915.

Okay, but the case collapses. There is a twist though. And the reason it collapsed, by the way, is because Marconi had all the money. Tesla had no money for legal, for a legal battle, always the way. In 1943, the Supreme Court steps in and invalidates Marconis patents, recognizing it was built off of Tesla's [00:18:00] patent and he stole it.

Uh, now of course, this wasn't purely about giving Tesla credit. Supreme Court stepped in because the US government wanted. To avoid paying patent damages if that happened, why did Tesla not have money? He died a couple months earlier. Oh, oh. I didn't hear that part. Yeah, I was listening. Okay. I didn't say that part.

Okay, good. You foresaw exactly what I was gonna say. Okay. So you did. You did really well, Tomas. Nice job. Oh my God. Whew. Yeah, so isn't that crazy? That's such a crazy story to me. Alright, Tomas, I got a question for you. When do you think the first radio station started? I mean, I would've said 1920s or 19 teens.

But now you're saying like it was. So these inventions were, were, were far before that. So go with your gut, man. I mean, I, I'll say, I'll say, I'll say, I don't know, teens. Like 19, 15, 19, 18. Somewhere in there. That was so close, dude. [00:19:00] 1920s. My God. Okay. Like, really? I should have gone with my gut. I, I was thinking twenties.

You know, we've never gone and won money together. What the hell? What? Why can't you use your powers for good? What is, what is this man? Let's go to Vegas for Christ's sake. I have good instinct. I just never follow it. Alright, so the first one was in 1920. It was KDKA. Were they public at that point or were they private?

So when I say public, was it funded? Was it public? Like PBS is public. We, we pay, you know, our tax payer dollars, pay and fund it. So what was it? A public. Did because they could utilize, they could say, look, we need a radio station now. This is a great technology. If there's an issue, we can, you turn on the radio and the government can tell you what's going on, if there's a storm coming in, whatever it is.

So they could justify a public radio station and the money that would be needed. To, uh, run a public radio station. So the first one, KDKA in Pittsburgh was owned by Westinghouse. So it was private. [00:20:00] It was private, and Westinghouse is one of the very first TV stations as well. Alright, so, uh, how quickly did Westinghouse, because I could see Westinghouse using it to public, publicize their radios.

You know, you need our to buy a Westinghouse radio and you can listen to Westinghouse radio. You know what I mean? You can listen to a show from Westinghouse, but how quickly did they figure out, um, advertisements? You know, it was advertisements and papers at that point. How quickly was advertising on radio?

The first radio commercial aired on August 28th, 1922. So it didn't take 'em long. They, they were gonna figure out how to monetize this thing year two in, they went, oh, we can make even more money. Yeah. And it wasn't even that station. It was on a New York station, WEAF, and it was a 10 minute commercial. Wow.

Yeah. Crazy. For 50 bucks. For 50 bucks. Got you. 10 minutes of airtime. That's amazing to me. Pretty good. Well, 50 bucks back then, you know, that's, [00:21:00] yeah. Oh, good point. Yeah. Yeah, right. I wonder what that 50 bucks is worth now. I know. Every 10 years it doubles. Right? So couple hundred at least, but still. Still.

Yeah. Yeah. So they say peak dominance for radio was was in the TWE from the twenties to the forties. Really? That's surprising. Yeah, probably because TV took over. Oh. So even when we were alive, more people watch TV than listening to the radio. I know. Wild. That's interesting because that was a nighttime thing, right?

So when you, at that point, and my parents are old enough to remember that, um, 'cause they were born in the late thirties. So they remember, they became aware in the forties sitting around a radio. A lot of people didn't have TVs. Most people had started buying TVs in the fifties and sixties, believe it or not.

Yeah. So people would listen to radio shows. That's it. And dramas, radio dramas. Yeah. There was a movement for a little bit. To come back when podcasting became more popular. Frankly, the True Crime [00:22:00] podcast you can say that I work on, yeah. Is a drama. We are not scripted. Ha. Can you tell? We are. We are neither scripted nor very dramatic.

Phil's introduction to this podcast proves that.

So, okay. What happened in 1933? Thomas tv? No. Well, in the thirties TV happened, but, all right. So what, what are you, what are you saying? I'll give you a better hint. What political figure discovered ra? How powerful radio can be. Oh, oh, oh. FDR. Yeah, eh, there you go. So the fireside chats. Fireside chats directly speaking to citizens, Churchill.

Big radio address, big radio guy, the, you know, the King of England. So that's interesting. So politicians took a while to figure out, oh, we can utilize this to get to our public. That's right. And when you think of the first debate that was ever televised, I think was the Kennedy Nixon debate and. Kennedy On tv.

Yeah, on tv. For [00:23:00] people who heard that debate, they thought Nixon won. Yeah. For people who watched it. Yeah. They thought Kennedy won. Yeah. Your eyes tell you a different story than your ears. That's interesting. Yep. Can I give a little side note? I think this might be interesting. I. When you think of sound recordings and radio in particular, this, the quality of the sound really puts you in a time period.

So, so the earlier recordings have a certain sound scratchy, not quite as good. Eventually it got better and better and better. And one of the, the, the largest leaps forward is magnetic tape. It's, it's the tape that we recorded on before digital, it went all the way up to digital magnetic taping. Guess what the Nazis gave us magnetic tape.

So the story that I had heard, which I don't know if it's true, is that Hitler wanted to deceive the allies by prerecording his propaganda speeches, making them think he was giving them live when he wasn't. I don't know if that's true, but I do know that magnetic tape came from [00:24:00] that period of time in Germany and it afforded us a lot of opportunities.

Uh, that prior to that we couldn't do, so for instance, you could edit it like the podcast. If we say something super, we could go back and take it out. Prior to that, you couldn't do it. There was, you would record on these wax discs if you recorded it, and you couldn't go back and fix anything that was wrong with magnetic tape, you could, so it was a huge leap forward in recording.

Quality and recording technology and I guess we can thank the Nazis for that. Tomas, I really don't want to thank the Nazis for anything. I'm sorry. Well, you have the auto bond. Sure. BMW, right? Volkswagen? Yeah. Microphones. I'll thank them for not being around anymore. How about that? Let's, uh, it's all part of radio though, so radio.

You're right. The first commercial TV broadcast was 1941, but you were right. The fifties and sixties is when everybody bought tv started. Started buying T TVs. Yeah. Bought TVs. And they had [00:25:00] TVs in their home and uh, and it kind of takes over radio. So what does radio do? Radio pivots to music. Oh, so prior to that, really there wasn't much music on radio.

That's crazy. I didn't know that. Drive time listening, you know, people are in cars a lot more in the fifties and sixties. Yeah. And And music was the thing that you wanted to listen to go cruising. You know, we all saw Happy Days, at least people of our age. Yeah, that's right. And I think of, oh my God, I'm thinking of the famous radio DJs, but the fifties.

I don't know them, but there were really famous DJs weren't there in the fifties and the sixties. Oh yeah. Wolfman Jack hated Wolfman. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, wait, wait. I used to be able to do it. Oh, right. Wolfman Jack. No, I can't do it anymore. I used to do it. Such a good impression of him, but I, I don't, I don't, I could say this perfect.

I can't remember, but I, I remember the name and I, I, when we grew up, FM radio was the big thing. Yeah. Great. Point [00:26:00] FM radio ca came in in the sixties and seventies and it was a, it was a stronger signal. So to your point, AM radio was, uh, was the only radio that was out. And it was, it still had, you know, trouble with some ranges.

Now some AM radio stations have a huge antennas and they're, they're very strong, powerful. But FM had a better technology. Is it because it's stereo and AM is mono? Is there something. Along those lines, they had higher bandwidth, lower susceptibility to noise. And you said it, stereo capability. Mm-hmm. And by the way, if they were doing music, it makes a lot of sense 'cause music was mono in the beginning.

And in fact, if you listen to the old Beatles recordings, they're all mono. The very first help. And you know, I wanna hold your hand. That's all mono meaning. If you don't know what mono and stereo is, we listen to life and stereo. We have two ears, so we're hearing sound from two different places. So we, life for us is stereo [00:27:00] Mono is just basically clog up one ear, put your hand over one ear ear and just listen to the other ear.

It sounds weird, it sounds different, and that's the difference between stereo and mono. Yeah, so the bandwidth, it allows FM to transmit more information, and so this also makes FM perfect for music on top of the stereo. It also has frequency modulation, which is constant power. Oh, I didn't know that.

That's interesting. It's able to carry the waves without any disruption. I don't know if you remember this, but became really not cool to be listening to. Yeah. It was like what your dad would listen to news on. Yeah. Or soft rock in the seventies. All the, a lot of the yacht rock stuff that we make fun of now, it was on, it was on Amber Radio, which is funny 'cause that stuff is recorded really well.

Yeah, most, a lot of it. I remember my mom, we had a K car, a station wagon, K cars, and. I have such vivid memories. She actually had great taste in music. My [00:28:00] mom and the car only had am radio, so we didn't have a choice. Right. But we would be listening to, they didn't pull the trigger and get the upgrade.

Definitely not, not for her. My dad's Cadillac might add, you know, fm, he had an eight track. Come on. That's right. He was living large. But I, I do remember loving that like that. Early seventies, soft music, you know, the early, mid seventies soft. So even you probably equate that, that poor quality of sound with a time period then, I guess I do.

Yeah. You know, and a car and, and a ride and a whole thing. You're young, you're happy. It's, it's good times. It's, you know. Yep, yep. I was taken care of. She always made me fe feel taken care of, you know, so, yeah. Yeah. So that music, I, I always smile when I hear it now. Right. Even when it's on, like, good sounding stereos.

Right. Still has still makes you feel good. Yeah. Yep. [00:29:00] So the fairness doctrine wasn't until 1949. You know, the public has a right to the airwaves and, and to certain information, and we were using the airwaves for, for the public good. So that also meant that messages had to be, if you were, if you were talking about government issues or political issues, you would have to have both sides represented.

Which I, I wish, God, I wish we still had that. It got knocked out in the late eighties. It was 87. When was the FCC created? 1934. So between then and the Fairness doctrine, they were just hanging out. I don't know. I guess, yeah, it was a pretty cushy job. What, what were they doing? They're all hanging out. What do you guys wanna do today?

I don't know. Let's go get some ice cream. All right. I gotta wonder, was profanity allowed on the radio before the FCC? Because if radio started in the twenties, oh yeah, that's. Well, so remember the haze, the haze code? Yeah. Yeah. So that was around the same timeframe as the [00:30:00] FCC being created. So radio must have been way nastier than Howard Stern ever was.

Well, I don't know. Day. I mean, so it, there was nudity in films prior to 1934. People don't realize that. Yep. But, um, we were, I mean, nudity What's nudity? I mean, it wasn't crazy nudity, but, you know, side boob. Yeah. It was that kind of a thing. So it wasn't like what we think of as, as, as. Twist Gay. I mean, it's pretty much what girls go out with now anyway.

That was allowed in films before 1934 to the point about Howard Stern, they went after him in the seventies and the eighties. Yeah, but he really pushed it at that timeframe. You know, he had prostitutes on and did strange things in the air. I, I have to be honest. I know you like Tara Stern. I never really liked Howard Stern.

Oh, he's not for everybody. Like, yeah, he, I mean he's, I think he's hilarious. He created reality tv, Uhhuh with his, with his show. Then Baba Bowie, I put him back on the plane with me and I. Upgrade him to first [00:31:00] class because I really need someone to talk to. And the mother puts himself to sleep like a baby.

He just, he just goes bowl. And then like, I'm like, how could he sleep? We just went through something very traumatic. I mean, we didn't, you did. Yeah. But you were there. I know. No, I know. I was thrown tired. It was just weird. And then like halfway through the flight, he wakes up and goes, and he licks his choppers because they're all dry.

That's my favorite part of the story. And he goes, and his mouth is dry and he goes both. I gotta get some orange juice. It's, I go, okay, good. He's up. I'll talk to him now because I'm staring at him the whole time. And his mouth is open and he goes, look at some juice. And then he, he gets the juice and he licks his lips and teeth.

And then he goes and he goes, he puts himself right back to bed with his, with his juice. I had to wake him up when we hit New York in history of me flying. I've never ever slept like that. I swear to God. Oh my God. You're like, you're saying usually. Here's what remember I like He has no thoughts. Here's what I remember.

The plane took off, I believe [00:32:00] at 10 30. And I remember being asleep before it took off, which is rare for me. I was gonna kill myself and I remember Howard, what a waste of money. I was looking forward to going to sleep. And Howard goes, I'm gonna upgrade you. And I go, you know, I'm just gonna sleep Howard.

I'm fine where I am. He's like, no, no. I wanna do this for you. Right. He was weird. I didn't want the guy back in coach when I'm in first class and this would've been weird. He is a definitely a pioneer and a genius whether you like him or not, weirdly, I remember liking the movie on Howard Stern, someone telling me way back when, oh, you should see the movie.

Yeah. And that's, the movie is really old at this point. It's like 30 years old. But I remember thinking, yeah, well, why would I see it? I don't really like his show. He doesn't amuse me. And I thought, oh, the movie's good. And then I appreciated it more. You do have to spend a little time like getting to know the characters and getting to know you.

You, you've probably never given it the shot that it deserve, that it, that it truly deserves. You know, me, I'm so quick to judge. It takes me like 10 minutes. I'm like, yeah. Yep. Nope, that's it. Yep. And by the way, it's so funny because sometimes Stacey will be in the [00:33:00] car. Stacey doesn't listen to him either, but, but she doesn't mind it if it's on, you know, sometimes I'll be listening to him or I'll have 'em on in the car with when Stacey's there and then all of a sudden I know what's coming and I'm like, eh, let's listen to some music.

You know, you, you hear the setup, you know where it's gonna go. Yeah, I know exactly where it's gonna go, but, uh, most of the time it's not like that anymore. To be honest, he's not. He's gotten political recently. Now. He was. He was, but now he's not anymore because he's just like, you know what, forget it. It was, it got to be too much.

Yeah. That would alienate half of his audience. It's the whole Jay Leno, Johnny Carson thing. The old school thing. Yep. Why support one side? I want It's true. A whole audience. Exactly. So I don't want half audience, so. 1987, the FCC Abolishes, the Fairness Doctrine, which was a terrible move in my opinion, because then we ended up with Rush Limbaugh and then we ended up with liberal radio, and now we're so polarized it, and it, frankly, it doesn't even matter anymore because even if there was a fairness doctrine, I don't think it would [00:34:00] apply to the, to the internet.

No. It's a how do you do that? Because the internet is basically a town square and you can have a kook in the town square. We're kooks on the internet. We are, we're very kooky. So, you know, we are where we're, where we're at. But boy, it must have been so much nicer living in a world where you needed both sides to kind of debate each other and, and you get to hear everything and, and you're not in your own little silo.

Um, the idea of it is nice, but when you look into it deeply, you realize that there was always bias. Oh, of course. 'cause it's actually more than the information. It's how you give the information. Sure. You can give the information in a very biased way. Just your tone of your voice lets people know what you actually think, and that's not news.

You're giving your opinion even without saying anything, you're giving your opinion so often. I agree with what the people are saying. But I don't like the way they're saying it. I like, I just want them to say it without any bias. Let me make my own decision. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm very [00:35:00] sensitive to that actually, because I listen to it through the lens of people who don't agree with me and I'm like, could I play this for somebody who doesn't agree with me?

And the answer most of the time is no, because they sound biased when they say it, even if it's good information. They're saying it in a way that's obnoxious and it's like, well, that's not gonna change anybody's mind. And I, I try to make, do you make my own fairness doctrine? If I, if I read something that's a little more conservative, I'll then try to read something on the same subject that's a little bit more liberal or more centered.

But here's the thing, whenever I get the news. From whomever it is. I always hear that tone and I can't take it. Please just gimme the news. Don't give me your opinion. You don't have to tell me you disagree with it, just the way you say it. Like I said before, I know what you're think. That's true and uh, it's great to do that.

And I try, I try and do that too. If you, you listen to both sides and then make up your own mind, but it's not actual debate whether they're. [00:36:00] You know, two people talking at each other, and you can, they can respond to each other in a real, in a real way. Yeah. And unfortunately there's a lot less of that on TV than there ever was, or in, in radio.

There's, there's starting to be more of that in podcasting, which is why I, I appreciate podcasting. Many reasons. So actually, let's talk about this because we're, we are getting off. Topic a little bit. Um, 1990s, internet radio begins. I had no idea it was that early, but it's not actually podcasting. It's internet radio.

I see. So it's like a radio station being broadcast via over the year. An internet connection. Okay. Exactly. XM radio launches in 2001 and radio launches in 2002. So you wonder. How did Sirius end up being the winner? Howard Stern went to Sirius. That's exactly how it happened. And then they merged, and now it's Sirius xm.

I never thought of it. So you're, I remember you buy a car and it would come with a certain amount of satellite radio, and then you had to buy the subscription and [00:37:00] I never did. You're the guy who did. Because of Howard Stern. Yeah. Okay. There you go. There are other things I like about Sirius, like, you know, they'll have the Billy Joel channel, which is really fun.

Yeah. Or the Bruce Springsteen channel. Yeah. Or the Beatles channel. Yeah. Those are all really fun. Is it only Beatles, only Bruce Springsteen, only Billy Joel? Or do they put artists that sound like those particular ones are only them, but there are channels that that like the Tom Petty channel will have.

Tom Petty and then his influences or you know, PE artists that he was influenced by or different. Is there a DJ on those channels? Not usually. There's just the music. Usually it's the music and then there'll be intercut. The artist talking about the song or, oh, that's cool. Or somebody else talking about the song.

Like right now the Billy Joel channel is back because it's the, I guess is it the 50th anniversary of, of his record turnstiles, which is by the way, an amazing record. Oh, wow. That's amazing. And they have artists talking about each song on the record. That's why they love, it's good. Yeah. It's [00:38:00] amazing. So you don't have a dj.

All right. It's four o'clock. Nope. And you're listening to Beatles Radio. Take it easy on the 4 0 9. It's kind of busy. There's a, that is incredibly good. Tomas, you, you might have a new, a second career late in life. It's funny, apple has made so many great products and people forget they've had probably as many failures as they've had successes.

Right Apple VR failure, so Oh, oh, yeah. I mean, what happened to the iPod that's gone. I mean, it was a success when it came out, but Yeah. Well, it morphed into the iPhone, but, uh, anyway, like, so, so one of the failures they had was they, when they tried to sell, uh, iTunes, they said, we're gonna have this brand new thing where we're actually gonna play music.

And have someone that curates the music and talks to you about the music. And I thought, you mean like a dj? That's not a new thing, guys. I love it. I love [00:39:00] that. That's so funny, man. By the way, iTunes, you and I have to have to seriously discuss this because iTunes is now doing video. Oh, I didn't know that.

Like Spotify does. Oh, okay. So something to consider, something it. Yeah. Alright. Yeah, let us know what you think. Alright. Uh, I mean that's kind of, that's kind of it, you know, I mean, we, podcasting starts in 2004. We've, we've talked about podcasting. Forever. The real question becomes, right, is podcasting, putting radio at a business.

And I can definitely tell you because I was part of both at the same time. And then the pandemic happened. I got laid off along with a thousand other people. And radio stations are definitely run by skeleton crews now compared to when I first got hired. There is like nobody there. Yeah. However. There's still a place for it, and I think [00:40:00] it's not gonna have as big an audience, but like it did when TV came out.

It's figuring itself out. Yeah. Every so often I'll get in my car and somehow the radio goes on, and I think to myself, wow. Radio still exists. Yeah.

Yep. I, I'll tell you, the thing I miss most about radio is the callers. Mm-hmm. It, there is something so cool about your, because you're in a vacuum. Yeah. You're, you're just talking to each other for. Ever. Yeah. And then to actually get feedback in real time. You know, it's funny, I actually have heard podcasts that have callers on it, but because podcasts are recorded prior to their release, we record a couple days before we even release usually.

But most podcasts are recorded quite a while before it just loses something unless it's immediate. Yeah. I, I don't know if callers work. I totally agree. And most podcasts don't, anyway. They, they just decide not to. It's really radio satellite. And [00:41:00] internet radio. There are still internet radio stations too, somehow.

Yeah. Amazing. You know? Wow. That's my walk down memory lane with the, the history of radio. What do you think? That's cool. Did I do okay? I think you did good. And I like how it seems as though now all these like video, these podcasts, so it kind of morphed into podcasts and then podcasts. You're saying you're off video, which means it's kind of turning into tv, so it's not radio anymore.

Yeah. Are we really inventing anything new? No. It's with any of this stuff. No, it's not. It's just the same. It's a different way. To get the same stuff. Yeah. It's a different delivery system for the same exact stuff. If we had videos, people are gonna see Phil's Phil is because I've gone off on your house and how poor the neighborhood you live in is.

Yeah. It's gonna look, look like Oscar. The Grouch Phil's podcast studio is a garbage can.[00:42:00] 

Yeah, it's much nicer than TOMA describes, but it's, but yes, there are a lot of helicopters and police, by the way, that is what Phil looks like. He, to the ground, he's green and fuzzy. This is weird. This is like the, this is like the matrix or something because, because. I played Oscar the Grouch in my first grade play.

There you go. I'm just saying. I was green, I was fuzzy, and I lived in a garbage can. All right. If the Jock ever does video, that's, we're gonna have puppets. You're not gonna see us. It's gonna be Oscar, the Grouch, and Grover. Hey, how come you get to be super Grover? That's not fair. Super Grover. Yeah. Alright, my man.

Well, we are the jocular. PUIs. Thank you for joining us for another episode. Um, if you're new to us, really thank you. Let us know how you found us because, uh, we are growing and that's really fun to see. Yeah. Uh, you can. [00:43:00] Find out more about us@thejocularpugilist.com. You can help us out by just sharing it, and we love that.

Share it with your friends. Leave a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen. And Tomas, if they wanna get ahold of us, how could they do it? They can do so by emailing us at the jocular pugilist@gmail.com. Excellent, my man. I hate to love you. Hold on.

I just asked. I just asked. I wanted to say something other than, I love to hate you. So I asked Chad, is there something that Super Grover says? And he says, that's super. What does Grover sound like? It kind of sounds like Yoda. A little bit like Yoda. Like Yoda, yeah. Oh, that's super. That's super, super cool.

Super quick, like there's no saying here. How about that? How about this one that's complicated. Not sure [00:44:00] that applies, but. You know, thank you for playing to me. To me, I don't understand. All right, man. Is it over? Yeah, I think we're done. Boy, do I think we're done. All right. I'll see you next time, man. See you.

Father.[00:45:00] 

With life

emotional.