Sacrifice or Are You Sure You Want it?

 In this episode of Pagan Coffee Talk, Lord Night and Oswin explore the true meaning of sacrifice in modern Paganism, Celtic traditions, and everyday life. From the act of giving up something to gain something greater, to the spiritual significance of creation and ritual, they break down how sacrifice shapes our personal, professional, and magical lives. They discuss the differences between meaningful sacrifices—like dedicating time, energy, and focus to craft or spiritual practice—and empty gestures that hold no value. Topics include ethical boundaries, the dangers of trivializing magic, and why staying true to your values matters more than fleeting gains. Whether you’re interested in Pagan ritual, traditional witchcraft, or practical life lessons on commitment and priorities, this episode uncovers the costs, benefits, and spiritual depth of true sacrifice. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Welcome to Peggy and Coffee Talk. I'm Oswan, and I have with me Lord Knight. So today we're going to talk about sacrifice.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

Ooh, sacrifice.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

I know. Big word. Ooh, sacrifice. You know?

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Well, what do you think sacrifice is?

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Well, according to Merriam Webster, the meaning of sacrifice is the act of giving up something that you want to keep, especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone. Also says an act of killing a person or animal in a religious ceremony is an offering to please a god. An act or offering to a deity, destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

I mean these are all correct. These are the acts of sacrifice as we think of it. The concept of sacrifice, though, is completely different. For different cultures. Okay. Okay. Well, from my understanding, Native Americans, to get something, they have to sacrifice something. Alright, so if they want a new car, the thought goes like this I have to get rid of the old car, so I got room for a new car.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Okay, so that fits in with one of these definitions. Here's to give something else, to give up something to in order to get something else.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

Right. There's an interesting concept. Okay, just like you know, some people have the concept of I'm going to sacrifice this for the sake of my kids. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna sacrifice this good job or whatever because I got kids. Alright? Now to sacrifice something is to make holy. Explain. Let's understand this this way. Uh the word dyslexic, this meaning cannot, and lex, which is short for lexicon, which uh translates into read means cannot read. So the word itself means this. Okay. So sacrifice the actual word correctly translated, from my understanding, means to make holy. So like um most pagan, and especially in my understanding, especially in voodoo, where if they might sacrifice a chicken or some type of animal, yes, it's killed its life is given for the ritual. But the animal's not going to waste. They'll wind up eating the animal. So the chicken will finish being prepared and cooked. Okay. So nothing's wasted. Nothing's wasted. So this isn't like the concept that we think of from the Hebrew traditions where you kill a beast, drain the blood from it, set it on fire and let it just burn completely away. And then you don't touch that. This to them is what makes this holy this animal or what they're doing holy. Does that make sense that they have to give a life to make stuff holy? There's also another concept, and is it's pretty common in more of the Celtic traditions, is an act of creation is a sacrifice.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Okay, go into a little more detail on that.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Okay. You want to make an athem. Okay. Alright? The sacrifice you're making is your time, your effort, your energy in doing this from scratch. That's what makes the item holy. Okay. By creating it, you're having to sacrifice something else. Does that make sense? That makes sense, yes. Okay. So for like kids, you give up half the DNA, the woman gives up half the DNA, you create new life, that life is sacred. Okay. The sacrifices that you hear a lot of people talk about is this type of sacrifice. That you're going to have to sacrifice something for something else because you can't have it all.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Well, it's still it's still a giving up of something in order to receive something.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Right. If you're wanting to be uh a great rock star or something, yes, you're gonna have to for probably forsake certain relationships and certain things and parties and stuff to do this.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Right. You're gonna have to put a lot of work into it. Right. A lot of rehearsals, you I mean, you're sacrificing a social life, relationships, family, you're giving up a lot of stuff in order to get it done.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

Right. You know, and why in the world some of these rock stars and stuff get all wrapped up in drugs and stuff is beyond me because that's not a sacrifice.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

No.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

But when you have somebody doing that, when you have doctors and nurses and lawyers and and and politicians willing to sacrifice their needs and their wants to help others, this becomes a more grander scheme of things. Right. All right. Where people should not sacrifice is when they come to their ethics and morals. At no time do I believe anybody should sacrifice their ethics and morals to get something done. All right. To me, you shouldn't have to do that. You should be able to hold yourself to those standards.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Right. Well, yeah, because I mean that's ultimately what guides us.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

You look at like politicians, okay? And here's where I have this problem. I see a lot of uh politicians that once they get into office and all this, suddenly forsake what in the world they said they were going to do, the morality and stuff like that to get certain things done. And I'm sorry, why do we keep on electing people who can just give up what they stand for so easily? Right. For nothing more than money or copper or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Well, honestly, those those people I believe.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

Those people are the ones that are still in power. Those people, those uh elderly people that in there that have compromised theirs are still there. And it bothers me to see that people are sacrificing something this basic to keep on electing these corrupt people.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Well, personally, I think those politicians, they're not the ones sacrificing anything. They're not. Because they don't have those ethics and morals to begin with.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

But no, what they're sacrificing is the people that elected them.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Well, sure. But I'm saying, as far as they are concerned, they didn't give up those ethics and morals. They were just spouting words.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

Spouting words to get what in the world they wanted at the end of the day. And what kills me is yet people still keep on electing this.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Right.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

Y'all, to me, this is y'all are sacrificing y'all's ethics and morals for destruction.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Right, because you're re-electing all these criminals.

SPEAKER_04 8:31

Right. You're re-electing all these criminals and stuff. But I I mean, I'm sorry, you see these politicians and they do certain stuff and they do it over and over again, and nobody has the ethics or morals to go, I'm not voting for you anymore. Right. You're not you're not keeping your word. You're selling us out to do all this other stuff. So, I mean, again, if you're gonna be making these sacrifices, if you are honestly making these sacrifices to make the world better, wake up, pay attention to what in the world you're doing. Right. What are you giving up? Because no matter what in the world you think you're gonna get or whatever, if you think we it uh doesn't matter what in the world it is. Nothing comes for free. Oh, absolutely not. There's always a price tag attached to it. And if you're sitting there thinking that you're gonna be living in some Star Trek fantasy world, you're not.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

It's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

We do not have that type of technology, and we're not going to. And still to this day, this seems to break the laws of physics. Understand how in the world they think they do it, they could do it, but we still don't have the technology to do this.

SPEAKER_05 9:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

So you don't get something for nothing. So people are gonna have to start asking themselves when they when they're sitting there to ask to make decisions on stuff, what are you willing to sacrifice? What are you willing to give up to have that? If you want a lifestyle where you're going out and partying all the time, it is going to be a short life. Right. There's no use in coming to me and whining about that, you know, whining about not having money or whatever if you're out spending it like faster than you can make it.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

But it's what you wanted, so it's what you wanted.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

This is the price you gotta pay. And I know what a lot of people say, well, we can just cast the spell. No. It don't work that way.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

No. I mean, theoretically you could cast the spell, but it's not gonna do you much good.

SPEAKER_04 10:37

Yeah, but my question is, is what did you give up? Exactly. Because uh we warn people all the time. Be careful what you wish for. Because we understand sacrifice. People sacrifice stuff all day. I know it sounds stupid to sit there, but going out to eat and choosing, you know, option one versus option two, that means you've got to sacrifice something else. You can't have both. Well, I guess you could if you got the money, but really depending on the restaurant, you're still making a sacrifice.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

You're giving up what your hard-earned money to go eat somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 11:18

Just uh yeah, just to go eat somewhere. And how many hours did it take for you just to go have a burger at some local restaurant?

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Right. How many hours of work did it take to pay for that steak dinner?

SPEAKER_04 11:31

Exactly. You sacrificed something, you sacrificed your time and your effort for a cheeseburger. Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Was it worth it?

SPEAKER_04 11:41

Was it really worth it? You know, I just don't understand how in the world people sit there and and don't think about the sacrifices that they make so easily and effortlessly. I have worked jobs. I have looked at pe I have looked at bosses and go, no, they might have been great jobs. You're not treating me this way. Right. Because sometimes it has to be that way. Sometimes it does. But then on the other hand, yeah, d don't get me wrong, not everybody out in the world's out to get you. No. You know, a lot of people do stuff and it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them. What they want, what they need. Right. Not what you need. I know people probably out there right now probably sort of listen to this going, but they're gonna be talking about ritual sacrifices. Well, you know what? I make a lot of sacrifices during ritual. Well, yeah. I sacrifice the time in that and the effort to write the ritual, perform the ritual, get everybody together to do said ritual to celebrate the gods.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Right, and lots of times you're also giving up your time because it's usually done in your home. Well, uh you know For you know, for a lot of covens, that's what we do. We we hold ritual space in our homes.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

Oh God, because God forbid everybody quit buying fucking crystals and actually donate to their temples. But hey, I I digress. Oh, no, you can't say that. You know, it becomes you know, it's more important to sacrifice that money for a damn rock. That's where it this all starts to go completely in this realm of what in the hell are people actually thinking about? You want to rock over a place that you could worship and connect with deity.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Safely.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

Safely.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

I mean, we've heard all the horror stories, you know, there was a a a coven that we were close with in South Carolina, and they were doing rituals in their backyard. And we heard their horror stories, people shooting fireworks and bottle rockets and police on them and you know. So they had to worry about that because they were in a neighborhood.

SPEAKER_04 14:11

Well, I mean, it it's even like in the gay community, and this is this just baffles me. Because in our day, we had to use our freedom of speech to get the message out. Hey, gay people, we're just gay. We're not gonna molest your kids. We're not gonna we're not trying to convert them. The most majority of us just want to live in peace and just be left alone. Right. But yet, I see the gay community team right now. Oh, we don't need freedom of speech. We got to hold off on this. We can't let them say that. Yes, we can. Sure we can. Because the same thing we use to get our rights is the same rights that they have, and we can't take them away from them. No, because if we take theirs away, we'll be sacrificing it from ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Right.

SPEAKER_04 14:55

If we give it up. And that does nobody any good. That does nobody. All right. We went through the the the pagan community or the Celtic community went through a freaking holocaust because the church denied us the right to defend our fucking selves, then burnt all our freaking priests and priestesses. Right. Alright? And now here are people willing Oh yeah, yeah, we'll give it up. Oh, go and take our guns. We don't need 'em.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Uh-uh. No.

SPEAKER_04 15:27

No. That's when the box cars start showing up. That's when you start getting shuffled off. That's when you start going into jail for nothing more than looking at somebody the wrong way. Here's a sacrifice I'm not willing to make. I'm sorry, your safety is not worth my freedoms. Right. At any cost. And everything I have known about craft tells me that the individual has responsibility and has to do. They have to sacrifice and contribute to their clan and their tribe to do so. No, everybody go off and do what in the world they want.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Well, and I think I think then too, there's a lot of people because I mean it you mentioned something earlier about you don't understand why or how people can just give up stuff willy-nilly and not even think about it. I think it's just because it's because so many times we do things that we know are this is the way we have to do this to get this outcome. And we don't really think about that sacrifice because it's who we are.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

All third degrees in traditional temples, we all make a sacrifice. That sacrifice is everything from our mental and emotional to our physical health to keep these beliefs alive.

unknown 16:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:58

To keep it going, to protect craft at all costs. But yet I go out there and I see these so-called Wiccans making a mockery of our fucking religion. Oh yeah. I mean, just an out-and-out mockery.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Oh yeah, just do whatever you want, and cast a spell. Oh, and I'm gonna cast a spell once a day. What the fuck are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 17:26

I've got to practice my spell casting. No, what you need to do is you need to work on your focus.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

What you need to do is work on your goddamn fucking problems. Right? Your problems.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Work on your problems, do your meditations.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

That will not be fixed by magic because magic can't fix what's in your head.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Oh, I'm about to get myself in trouble. Go for it. You can't fix stupid. Can't fix stupid.

SPEAKER_05 17:55

There is no such spell. It does not exist. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 18:09

Trust me, I would sacrifice stupidity in a moment. Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

God help us.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

But yet these people out there making a mockery of the stuff we're doing. Sitting there, hey, I got fifty altars to fifty different gods that I have to play pray to each day. Right. And I got so much junk. I digress. The sacrifices that a lot of us are talking about, these are these are sacrifices that only affect us. Alright. Being a priest and stuff, the stuff I am sacrificing is to keep pushing craft ahead to get newer and more sound ideas out there. Right. Alright. A lot of meditation, a lot of research, trust me, a lot more meditation. And even then, I'm going to be putting out some of these ideas, and I know some people are going to try to crush them in five seconds flat. That's fine. That's fine. But I'm not sacrificing this time and the effort for nothing. I am sacrificing this so people start to understand there is another culture underneath all of this. And it is a more traditional stuff. Traditional witchcraft is not goddamn folk magic. It's just stuff we learnt from our elders that our elders learnt from their elders, and so forth and so on.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Right. If you're out there calling traditional witchcraft folk magic, then I'm sorry, you're wrong. No. You're wrong. That's not what traditional witchcraft is.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

No. Folk magic and stuff like that is Appalachian magic stuff where it's, and I hate to be this way, the Appalachian magic is the same thing as voodoo. It is a mixture of Christian, Southern Christian beliefs, and stuff that came from the highlands of Scotland. Up in the Appalachian Mountains. It is not. That is folk magic.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Well, and it does, Appalachian magic does include some voodoo, some voodoo. Voodoo type stuff.

SPEAKER_04 20:27

And voodoo does the same thing, but it's African beliefs mixed in with Catholicism.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Right. It's a mixture.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

It's a mixture. That's folk magic. There's folklore and stuff like this because every granny I knew growing up could uh pray the fire out of a burn by saying certain passages from the Bible while blowing a cross on your arm. Or wherever you burnt. Right. That's folk magic. And that's magic. That's just magic.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah, but but for those people, that is that is their religion.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

No, that's it. But again, their only thing there is magic. There's nothing else. There's nothing greater. It's just the magic.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

No. Not from what I've researched.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

No, what I'm saying is there are people out there right now in the Wiccan community. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

There's no religion, there's nothing there whatsoever. It's just goddamn fucking spell work. Stop.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Yeah. Well, that's that's what we're calling Wicca. Wicca. It's this It's turned into this new agey um alien spiritual crap that has nothing to do with anything. Right. It's non spiritual. It's oh, we're gonna read cards, we're gonna cast spells, we're gonna work with our crystals. No.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

No. I mean I mean yeah. Yeah, you are sort of making a sacrifice, but I don't see them sacrificing anything but the personalities. To be fucking drones. Alright? I'm I'm sorry, every last one of them's all read the same books and it's about the same stuff and they all sound the same.

SPEAKER_05 22:18

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

And then when you start pushing it now, don't get me wrong. Other religious concepts and stuff, yeah, we should look at, we should study. Alright? But when you start cobbling together this piece and that piece of this, and you're putting it together with duct tape and anything beyond the freaking surface scratch suddenly makes the whole thing fall apart. Because they have sacrificed their spirituality for vagueness and magic.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Right. There's nothing cohesive to hold anything together.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

Where the majority of the people I know would sacrifice magic in a heartbeat for wisdom and knowledge and communion with the gods for that spiritual connection.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:08

I mean, is this really a sacrifice y'all were w uh why are y'all so willing to make this? I don't know. I don't either. I think I'm about done with this. But uh sacrifice is not that hard of a subject. And I still like the fact that it's an uh in the Celtic beliefs, it's an act of creation. You should be creating stuff. You should be making new things, new concepts, pushing those limits, putting those ideas out there. And again, I I I don't see it. I see the same basic fluffy bunny crap going on that's been going on for years now.

SPEAKER_05 23:49

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

Nobody has brought anything new to the table. No. And I'm sorry. Sitting there going, ooh, well, what about chaos magic? Or what about that? It's fucking magic, people.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Magic is magic.

SPEAKER_04 24:02

It's magic, it's magic. If you know how to cast a spell for luck, you know how to wake the dead. Right. It's not that complicated. If you know how to do a curse, you know how to do a healing. It works the same damn way.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Right. But even your spell work requires sacrifice. Sacrifice.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

And it it also requires effort upon your part. That's what you're sacrificing.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Yep, you're sacrificing your energy, your emotions, your time. The old adage blood, sweat, and tears.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

I mean literally everything of craft that I know as a religion and a belief system is all based on the whole entire principle of if I give you a fish, you eat for a day. If I teach you to fish, you'll eat for a freaking lifetime. Right. And in craft, we go, okay, now you know how to fish, now I'm going to teach you how to build the rod and the line and how to find the worms and how to get a lot of worms and all this until I know every last bit of it. Until I can get this down just right. No, I we'll just cast the spell instead and just let it all go.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

We'll cast the spell and wait for the fish to wash up on the shore.

SPEAKER_04 25:19

Sure. And I'm sure y'all's deaths will that that sacrifice helped to feed that spell and allow the younger ones who could live longer without food and water until the fish came up. The main point on all of this is be careful. Pay attention to what you're actually sacrificing. Right. Is it really worth it?

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Right. No know what you're sacrificing, know what the cost of it is, and be prepared. You know, are you prepared to lose that? Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

Are you willing to lose your family and your loved ones just for a job? Or are there other things that are more important to you? Because again, like I said, I I see these people and they'll do it. I'm just gonna do a spell because I can. I don't really need to do a job, but I'm gonna do a spell. Why? And why can't you get a job without a spell? Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Anyway, I'm out of coffee. I'm out of coffee too. We'll see you next week. Alright.

SPEAKER_04 26:25

They'll come back and see us now.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Thank you for listening to Peggy Coffee Talk. I hope you join us next week.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

We travel down the strodden path, the meat of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by the Sea of Blazing Pires. And so it is the end of our day. So all three till morning, and so it is the end of our day, so all three till morning.