To Be or Not To Be... Political?

In this episode of Pagan Coffee Talk, hosts Lord Night and Oswin explore the inherently political nature of witchcraft and the role of modern pagans in society. From the historical roots of the term “witch” as a dangerous accusation during the Salem witch trials and the Inquisitions, to the fight for legal recognition and religious rights by figures like Selena Fox, Laurie Cabot, and Lady Santana, this discussion traces how witchcraft has always intersected with politics.

The hosts also dive into practical questions for today’s pagan and witch communities: How should pagan groups engage with politics while respecting separation of church and state? How can ethical and moral principles guide voting and activism? They examine examples of charity, community service, and anonymous generosity, emphasizing integrity and humility in public actions to avoid fueling misconceptions.

Listeners will gain insight into the delicate balance between spiritual practice, ethical conduct, and civic engagement, all while navigating the public perception of witches and pagans. This episode offers both historical context and modern guidance for those seeking to live their craft responsibly and thoughtfully in a world where every action can be scrutinized.

Listen now to understand the political roots of witchcraft, ethical civic engagement for pagans, and the importance of integrity in spiritual practice.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. Here are your hosts, Oswin and Lord Knight. Today, let's talk about whether or not witchcraft is inherently political.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Do you really want me to answer that question? Yes. Yes. Witchcraft's always been political.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

All right.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Well, I read from the day it was conceived to the day it dies. Why? Because we used to give advice. We were advisors to kings and queens.

unknown 1:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

That don't make us political. Nothing does.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Very true. That used to be our job. Well, I was see, I was just wondering your opinion because I had seen a blog post that basically said that the term witch has a very long, extensive political history attached to it. Um if you look back to Salem witch trials, the Inquisitions, that term was originally an accusation. Right. Right. And being accused of that was a political deal because you were going to wind up being tortured and possibly killed for it. Well, you gotta remember. And then and then it goes on to say that that modern witches, you know, we've gained all the rights because people had to fight politically to get those rights.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

You look at figures, popular figures from history, and some maybe not so well known, like Selena Fox, Silver Ravenwolf, Laurie Cabot, Lady Santana, they all fought politically to be legal nonprofits, to have equal rights to be considered a church.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Well, think about it this way: the word witch was never a word we chose for ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

How so?

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Well, and I mean, in the ancient days, what we refer to as witches, they wouldn't have called themselves that. Oh, no, but now it's a word we choose. Right. Just like Wicca and all this other stuff, is a it's a word we choose. That word which, believe it or not, from my understanding, it could be wrong here, is a Christian word. It was a word that they used to describe people who practice certain beliefs that went against what they believed.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

So again, you you it was an accusation. It was a it was a dirty word.

SPEAKER_03 3:05

That's what I was saying in the beginning. It was an accusation, and the accusation meant death.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Right. I mean, but even before then, witches didn't call themselves that. Well no, either they were either the shaman or the healer or the elder or what they weren't witches. They didn't call themselves that. True. So uh but yeah, I mean, as far as craft being political, yeah. We're political. We should stick our noses in there. I mean, why should the pagan community or the witch community at large be any different than any other religion in the world? As far as being political.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Well, I mean, what about separation of church and state?

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Well, of course, the separation of church and state. But Christians use their morals and ethics to uh vote with correct?

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Correct, yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

I mean, Christians vote for people who represent their values from their religion.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Yeah, and and by that standard, no, we shouldn't be any different.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

We shouldn't be any different. I mean, literally, that's all we're talking about. I mean, again, I'm not gonna sit here and ever spout out, hey, you should vote for this person or that person or endorse anybody. All I can sit there and tell you is, hey, you know, when it comes to voting, if they're not living up to your morals and standards, don't vote for them. Right. Do your research. Do your research. For us and our tradition, keeping your word is considered a pretty big deal. Why would I not expect that from my politicians to represent me?

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Right. And I know in in your personal communications with some politicians, you've really called them out on that.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Yes. That you need to keep your word. If you want me to vote for you, this is what you're gonna have to prove to me. I know there is one politician, and yeah, I honestly believe he's broken his oath, you know, and I've called him out on that before. But, you know, that's me and my personal accounts, not right.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

Well, that was gonna be my next question. I mean, now that now that we do have rights and we are able to be recognized as nonprofits, we're able to be recognized as a religious organization. Is there a need now for organizations, pagan organizations, to get involved directly into politics?

SPEAKER_02 5:40

No more different than any of the other religions.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

You know, I'm talking I'm talking about more of a need like um going to court, fighting these battles. Should we band together as like one organization?

SPEAKER_02 5:54

I d we should try in our local areas. In our local areas, yes. I mean, there should be no reason why in the world anybody like at in prison should not be able to get their hands on literature that they need to practice their pagan beliefs. No, I understand that might mean that they might not get certain tools and have to do more rituals alone or in certain times without certain things, but it can be done.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

If your coven is pro-life, then go to the march as a gr as a coven. And ain't no different than the Catholics doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

But no, should we should we broadcast that as I mean as a coven? I mean, you've long said that like in our local area, there's a there's a pagan group who sponsored a highway cleanup. The roadside cleanup things. Yeah, and they've put their name on one of the signs.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Well, again, don't have a problem with that per se. It's just a little cringe for me, but okay, whatever. You want to adopt the highway, great.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Well, but that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Where this one group, from my understanding, wound up in trouble was they did collection for toys for kids.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Well, they uh gave went and gave them out and did hot chocolate and some cookies or something like that for the kids, and they sung holiday songs.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

The way it was described to me. And then when it was found out what the group was after all of this, they took all the toys away from the kids and gave it back to them.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

Oh, damn, I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

All right. Which again, I like what they did. What they did, they did, I I know they did it, uh hopefully they did it because they wanted to do it. Right. Our problem is that we were taught in our tradition, feed in over our head was we cannot allow anyone to speak evil of our good. Right. And basically, this is that concept that we should do things, but you need to do them anonymously. If you're gonna donate food, just donate food. You know, if you're gonna donate toys, get a lot of toys and just give it to toys for tots and call it a day. Drop it off at the local um police station or wherever they're collecting them at and call it a day.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Right. Just don't, you know, leave your organization name or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

You you don't need to do it, it's for the kids. It's kind of messed up because you kind of like them, but I kind of hate them. And it's the same thing with the guys that do the um, they'll set up the camera and then they'll go through like the holidays and pay for people's groceries.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Well, that's great, but you're doing it for publicity.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

You're right. They're doing it to get a video because everybody gets that feel-good moment.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

I like it when stuff like that might be caught on camera, but it's not known. That that person being generous and buying for somebody's groceries or something like that, if it's called on there and but it's not done from that person.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Right. I actually well, I actually saw um video. No, I actually saw a video not too long ago, and there was a street performer, and she was singing, and you know, she had had her little thing out there that you could put your tips in. Uh-huh. And right next to her, basically right next to her, was a homeless man digging through the trash.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

Pulling out, you know, chicken nuggets. And she saw him and she was like, No. So she stopped singing and went to go get her tips, pulled money out of her tips, and handed it to her, said, Here, go get you some fresh ones. But you gotta promise me you're gonna go get fresh ones. Right. And he was very grateful. And it wasn't long after that, and this is just somebody recording her off the street, because you know, she was she was pretty good. And it not even a minute later, there's a man comes from behind and puts more money into her thing, and apparently it was more money than what she gave the homeless man.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

See, see, I'd like to.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

So I prefer, I'm like you, I prefer things like that where it's like, oh my god, did you just see that? Right. It's more of an organic thing.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

I can understand a big organization like a church or something like that, you know, sitting there and like going to a grocery store going, okay, we've got up this much money. The first hundred people, can you use this on their groceries? You know, and then them recording it. But again, I still see this as them stroking their own ego more than actually doing something good.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

Right. I mean, I would rather, if something like that were gonna happen, I would rather see, well, rather not see and just find out that some anonymous organization or anonymous person donated money to the grocery store so that those first hundred people could, you know, get free groceries.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Well, yeah, it's kind of like that one the I've heard of it happening where like the person in front of the drive-thru pays for your food.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Right. And then you pay for the next person's food.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Right. And it starts this chain effect for a little while. You know, they're like, Well, you know, I can really afford my own food, but I'll pay for mine, I'll pay for the next person's.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

You know, and uh those I find neat until somebody comes along going, Oh, I actually do, I don't have the money. Right. And finally gets them and actually gets a meal. You know, don't get me wrong, I I understand where people find it hard to give to people nowadays because especially if you're you don't know if that person's gonna go out and get drunk instead. You don't know if that person's gonna go out and buy, you know, drugs.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Yeah, and unfortunately it's been that way for a while.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Well, I mean, it makes it even harder on these people because I don't know about you, I don't carry cash that often anymore.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

No, I don't either. There was a guy in the local area who would stand out with a you know with a sign, and I never had any money. But I, you know, I used to carry extra water in my car. And if it was a hot day or even if it was a nice day, I'd offer him a water because it's what I had.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Right. Like I said, I I like these ideas better because it I'm sorry, there's still too many people out there in the world that's got this bad mojo about us because they don't quite understand, or even some other religions say certain things, and they could say what in the world they want, but I don't see what that has to do with kids getting toys or not getting toys. And would you really not accept food if you're starving to death just because it was the wrong religion? I wouldn't know. You know, I I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

You know, free food's free food. Just saying.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Well, I mean, you know, I know this is like way off the topic. I mean, but you know, it's like hey, you know, I sit there and watch these videos, and every Sabbath that seems to come up, you know, hey, is Christmas, you know, really pagan? No, Christmas is not pagan.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Christmas is Christmas. Hence the reason it's called Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Right. Christmas. Christmas. All right. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

We have y'all. And it's a lesser.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

We don't really care that much. You know, it's not like hitting one of the grands.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

No. Grands are a completely different subject.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah. Um, I think that's about it. Yeah, I think so. I forgot what this subject was supposed to be about.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Oh, yeah, we should be political. I'm already telling you, we already are. And yes, we we should vote for our the candidate that has our best ethics and morals and what we believe in. Do your research.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Right. Just just be careful about what you do in the public eye as far as putting your religion out there on top of it.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

I hate to be this way. Even in this day and time, I still think we need to put our best foot forward at all times.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Because I mean, all it takes is one person doing the wrong thing with the wrong, and it's and the next thing you know it's all about the witches. Exactly. See what they're doing to our kids, and it gives the Christians too much ammo.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

It really does. Well, and not just not just the Christians. No. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at life templeseminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media. Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

We travel down the strode path, the maze of stone empire. Just hold my hand as we pass by steel blazing pirates. And still it is the end of our day, so off with me, till morning break. And still is the end of the world.