Spritual Downtime

Have you or someone you've known, ever been in a place where you're between religions? Maybe you're looking for the right path but are transitioning between paths, or you're just having a bit of the potluck that is religion. What do you do in your downtime? How does constantly switching effect you? In this episode, we discuss how to utilize that downtime. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. Here are your hosts, Oswin and Lord Knight. Today I've pulled a topic out about indefinite spiritual places. It's dealing more with switching spiritual paths and what happens when you're in that transition period. And can you switch from more than one spiritual path to more than one spiritual path? And how does that affect you mentally?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

So you mean like going from Christian to pagan or from pagan to Muslim? Or yes. Or from Christianity to Muslim and so forth? I mean, is this what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Okay. I can see where there would be a problem with cherry picking. What do you mean by that? Well, I see the problem in the pagan community. A lot of people want to sit there and go, talk about karma. Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

But when they talk about karma, the majority of the times they're kind of like, okay, yeah, I believe in karma and blah, blah, blah, but I don't believe it follows you from one lifetime to another. I think that's cherry-picking. You're only cherry-picking the parts you want. This is the same argument we hear uh that a lot of pagans use against Christians and a lot of gay people. You know, you're just cherry-picking certain things to make us look bad. Or you're cherry-picking just certain things that only support your view.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Okay, so you're basically talking about just taking stuff here and there from other places. I'm talking about a full-on switch.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Well, what I'm saying is during that switch, during that downtime, in that in-between places, I can see where this could happen. Oh, okay. Where I'm sitting back and I'm like, okay, I'm going to switch from pagan to Christianity. Well, there are some fundamental differences between the two religions. Most definitely, yes. I can see where in the world you're going to have some cherry picking going on while converting. Because you don't want to let go of some of your old beliefs, but you want to accept some of these new ones. And that these two ideas might conflict with one another. So unless you're doing this and you're literally doing a clean break.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Which is hard to do. It is hard to do. It's hard to especially especially depending on how long you've been involved in whatever path you're leaving.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

I mean, imagine somebody leaving Mormonism, right? The Mormons are very strict, and the way they raise their kids and stuff like that, that I can see where there would be a lot of psychological problems trying to convert. There are going to be certain things you're going to want to hold on to that the other religion tells you to let go, and vice versa.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Right, because they are very family-oriented, more so than uh a lot of other uh religious organizations, and they they a lot of Mormons are raised that way. Right. So I can see yeah, I can see that that'd be pretty difficult to leave.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Exactly, because you don't know nothing else. You were raised this way. I I can see where in the world this could potentially actually cause this cherry picking to cause this stuff to where in the world the religion might get a little muddled for a little while until you finish converting completely over and change all your thoughts. But it's awful hard to change certain ideals, certain ideas that you have and certain concepts.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

So, do you have any advice on how to handle that?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Really? It takes time. I'm sorry, to do it like a clean break, I'd almost have to say, depending on what religion you're coming out, is you might have to 100% throw yourself into a different religion. You know, if I wanted to become Christian, I I would probably have to do that. I would probably have to set myself into a situation to where I'm not exposed to anything, other ideas but Christianity until the conversion's done. Which ain't gonna do nothing but make me annoying.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

True.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Because I mean, people who do this, that's it. That's all they talk about all day. You know, we've all seen those people.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

Well, what about what about people who and I hate to put it this way, but because it sounds so derogatory, but what about people who flip-flop? Where it's like a constant change, where they're going through and I don't mean it bad, I just mean they haven't found what fits them yet.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

There are people out there that are that that will well for one month they're they're they're Buddhist, next month they're they're they're Christian, next month they're Catholic, next month they're Muslim, next month they're right, and like but like I said, I don't mean that derogatory, I just mean it's well, I mean, I know there are some people who are like that, they're just like, oh well, I just I'm I'm just gonna try everything. Um but the people who are honestly seeking something but just haven't found it yet, and so you know, I'm talking these are people who probably spend a couple of months digging into like a particular path. Well, I mean, here's my question decide it's not for me, and so they move to something else.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Or I mean, is it the lack of attention span that we have this now? This used to not be a problem. People pretty young would pick their belief system and stick with it. You know, this jumping around has become more to me a more modern problem. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Yes, but I'm back to what about those people who are honestly going through this trying to find where they what fits them best?

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Well, I mean, until they go through a mile and find something, and if they're honestly doing this, it might take some time to find something you believe in, you know, if you find anything at all.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

And so what what do you suggest? I mean, do these people just never have anything to hold on to?

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Do they Well, I'm not gonna say that.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Do they just take do they take what's familiar to them from whatever they've already studied?

SPEAKER_02 7:23

I I'm not gonna say that. I'm gonna say just like any other religion, if people would sit down and start to write, today I believe, and don't worry about what religion or anything first. It's kind of like what we used to tell people on how to buy computers when they first, you know, back in the 90s and stuff. Uh-huh. And we had all these people that are buying computers and they don't know what in the world they're doing. And having to sit there and explain to them, okay, first of all, you're gonna have to find the software you want to run. Look at the minimum and maximum requirements, right? Then buy a computer accordingly. I'm thinking this is the same way as these people finding religion. First of all, you have to establish what it is that you believe in. And that's where a lot of these people keep on jumping around. The problem's not the religion, the problem is nobody's ever sat, these people ain't sat down to go, today I believe in this. That they're not sitting down going, Well, do I believe in reincarnation? Do I believe it's only a one-shot deal? Until you can answer those questions, how are you gonna find a religion?

SPEAKER_03 8:36

So basically, it if you're on a path where you are seeking a particular spiritual path to follow, right? If this is your journey, you're suggesting first and foremost, write down what you think you believe in.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Right. And here's what everybody thinks. Once you write that down, yeah, it does sort of seem in it, but it also gives you a chance to go back the next day and start at the top of the page and go, today I believe in. Because in the process of writing that, I think you're gonna start realizing what parts you don't agree with. And if you start to eliminate too many things that you don't believe in, you have to sort of re examine the idea in and of itself.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Yeah, and I think an example would be okay, I believe in reincarnation. Why do I believe in reincarnation? Because I see people, some people remembering what they did, some people that have skills and stuff like this. I can find things to justify this. Right now, it doesn't mean it's a real justification, it's just in my mind, this is what justifies it. And I can use that witch logic to prove this. But if you don't believe in it, there's nothing I can say to make you believe in it.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Right, but it but it will help if someone is writing that down. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

My point there is if you start to believe, okay, well, if you believe in reincarnation, do you believe that you have to switch from gender to gender? Do you have to, you know, we've talked about reincarnation cycles and stuff like this. When you start taking them concepts away from the main concepts, that concept starts to fall apart. And I think when you're writing them out, if you're sitting there going, okay, yeah, I believe in karma, all right. Is it consistent? Is it not consistent? Do you believe that it is consistent or is it not consistent? Is it only used for big bad stuff?

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah, I mean, but do you see what I'm saying? And once you start finding those things and you start to realize, and then you go back and you read about karma and you start realizing what your idea of karma is and what the real idea of karma is completely separate. And you're like, well, I actually don't believe in karma.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Well, I think if you're if you're journaling these ideas, I think it also helps you keep your mental capacity organized so that it's not so scatterbrained. And I I think that's a good place to start because it's going to help you in the long run decide what it is you do actually believe. Exactly. Because you I don't think you should don't not only, I think you should not only journal what you think you believe in, but what you don't believe in.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

And but my point there is when you're doing that, if you're if you sit there and you start off with a concept, I don't care what the concept is, and you start saying, Well, you know, I believe in this concept, but I don't believe it where it applies the here or here or here or here or here. Right. You know, when you start going through that process that this is what you believe, you you start to realize, well, I don't actually believe in this, I just believe in this part. Why?

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Right. And if by believing in this part it negates my disbelief, right, then I actually believe in it.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

I mean, because again, I need to accept it for what it is.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Right, because we're back to this, you got to be careful about the cherry picking here. All right, just because an idea has some bad concepts to it that you don't necessarily like doesn't necessarily mean this is bad or evil. It might just be a counterbalance to the whole entire concept.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Good point.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

And again, we're back to this cherry picking. I'm sorry, when you're dealing with a concept, if you've eliminated everything except for the whole, yeah, we get reborn, okay, you know, that you just believe in that. Do you actually believe in that?

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Well, like with reincarnation, if you're just cherry picking or karma, better yet, karma. If you're just cherry picking, okay, well, it only applies to this, and this other stuff doesn't, it's not what I believe, then do you really believe in karma? Right. See, because here's the Because you haven't you haven't accepted that whole concept of what karma actually is. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

You see, and even then, people of the people, even in their own religion, do not always 100% agree with everybody. Not everybody's going to agree with you 100% of the time.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Well, no, and that's that's part of the beauty of being a um free thinker, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

But uh that then again, you know, when somebody comes up with a new idea and you're just dismissing it out of hand because, well, it's Bob. Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Oh, he don't know what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

He doesn't know what in the world he's talking about. It's just as bad. Right. Because in in craft specifically, we're taught to learn other religions. I mean, Lord Man, Lord Myan was such a stickler about this to the point to where he wanted us to learn the uh the the how to commit last rites to someone who's Catholic just in case they weren't there wasn't another Catholic priest around to where in the world we could do it for them if we had to.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Right. You know, that's that's providing that the the the family agreed to it.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

I mean Right. You know, well the the the idea here is is that we're here for the spiritual needs of the world, not just our community.

SPEAKER_03 14:39

Right. Don't take that as we're out to save everybody because that's not the case. No, we're we are here we are here for spiritual needs of everyone.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Right. You know, I'm gonna give it spiritual advice to someone who's Christian who comes up and asks for it. Just as fast as I am one of my coven members. Oh, absolutely. Us learning these rights of other ones is it this just goes on to show that you know, in most of the pagan community, we don't have a problem with other religions. We don't have a problem stepping on their toes if we have to.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

You know, I don't know that I'd say stepping on toes, but delving into their territory.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Yeah, exactly. We have no fear about this. Yeah, I will sit down and pray with someone who's a Southern Baptist if that's what they asked me to do. Because at that time, my thought is not on me, it's on their spiritual needs.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

You know, and and my hope would be that other religious people, if something happened to me, would treat me with the same respect. Hey, yeah, I know enough about his religion, let's do the best we can here under the circumstances.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Right. I'm not gonna be able to do everything for you, but I know enough I can help.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

I can muddle through it, you know. So, yeah, I mean, so you have that soldier on foreign land who who dies. Do they get buried according to the customs of where they're at and who buries them? You know, like all these guys, all these soldiers that we sent over to Afghanistan, if any of them died there, were they given a Muslim funeral? Good question. Probably not. Probably not, because but again, where we would be pagan, we would probably give them a pagan funeral, going, yeah, we gave them a death rite that we knew what to do, according to our culture.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Right. Well, well, I think in something like that, it's you don't if you don't know that person's culture or spiritual path or whatever, you're gonna do what you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

You do the best you can, and I think that's what it's still done out of a place of respect. It may not be their spiritual path, but it's still done out of respect.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

You know, because I you know this this whole entire conversation only makes me think of Farscape, where I think they thought Crichton was dead. And what's his name? The the little Napoleon character? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Emperor, remember, I can't remember his name, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Yeah, yeah. He was like, I'm gonna do the death rights, and there's this whole entire scene of him doing the death rights, and he's like, No, never mind, you can't go to my places, they're not good enough for you.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

That's funny. It's funny, but that's where some of these religious people believe that you weren't one of us and we're not going to do that, right? Where this thought is, is that you know, even though you're not part of our religion and stuff, we're gonna honor you by doing these rights, right? You know, this isn't done to thumb a nose up at you or get a one-up or anything. We're literally thinking that we're doing something to save the soul here, right? Allow it to move on so it can reincarnate. It's an interesting question that you know, this one question has sparned this much of a conversation.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

I know, right? You would have thought that this would have just been a simple answer, a simple yes or no, but um it's not it turns out it's not.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

It's not. I mean, like I said, somebody switching and purposely switching, I think they're gonna make some conscious choices there to try to ignore certain old concepts. But I can see where it would be hard not to wind up cherry picking or mixing the two concepts together.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Right. I think there's always gonna be there's always gonna be that cherry picking. There's always gonna be that combining or mixing of concepts and beliefs to some extent. Just be careful which ones and how you're cherry-picking and how you're combining them because some of those beliefs are very specific.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Exactly. You you need to read it all, the whole entire concept before saying you believe it and not. I still think it's a good idea for everybody, not just I us, but everybody, to sit down and to start and start with today, I believe. And start writing what they believe. And once they realize what in the world you believe, then you might be able to find a religion that best suits it.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Right. You mean even then you might have to make some compromises, but I know you you better you have a better chance of finding something that fits you.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Right. Well, and again, you know, you still got to remember, even inside religions, you get, you know, 10 Southern Baptist deacons together and ask them all for an opinion on a uh on a passage in the Bible, you're gonna get 50 different answers. Exactly. Out of 10 people. Exactly. Because I I've I've heard them conversations, I've been around for that. So again, you still have this in there, too. There, there is a lot of wiggle room in a lot of these religions.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Just be careful, you know, you might get into arguments with people, but you know, it happens.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

It does. It does. Just be prepared for that.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Anything else?

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Oh, I believe that's it.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

All right. Yay. I'm out of coffee then. All right.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing fires. And so it is the end of our day, stole off with me till morning, break. And so it is the end of our day, stole off with me till morning.